 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining us here for a very special conversation on gender parity and the need for gender parity to try and foster the cause of economic recovery. My name is Shirin Bal and it gives me great privilege and pleasure to welcome here on this panel a very special set of guests who are going to be talking to us about this very important conversation that we hope to mainstream. I am also going to make this interactive so it would be nice if you do have questions and comments. I will get to you towards the end of our panel discussion and we will engage with all of you as participants as well. To contextualize where we stand as far as the gender gap is concerned and why it is so important to have this conversation here in Davos 2023. There have been significant setbacks through the course of the pandemic. On your screen, that is the number that you need to focus on, 151 years to gender parity. That is the number that we need to all focus on and that is the kind of work that is required to ensure that we bridge the gap, that we bridge the deficits. Why is it important? It's not just the just thing to do. It is not just the fair thing to do. It is the right thing to do because it makes economic sense. It makes business sense. And there are studies, innumerable studies that highlight the importance of unlocking value by ensuring that women actually have access to credit, women have access to education, women have access to employment and that is what we hope to address here on the panel today on why it is important that we actually put fiscal measures in place, monetary measures in place. We involve the private sector to try and ensure that we can bridge this very significant gap. Through the course of this conversation, I will bring up other data points as well, which point us in terms of not just what the diagnosis is of the problem but also provide a prescription about the road ahead. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to our panelists here today. Let me start from my left, Minister of Finance, Budget and National Planning at Nigeria, Zainab Shamsuna. Emma, thank you very much for joining us. Smriti Irani, the Minister of Women and Child Development representing India. Mr. Irani, thank you very much for joining us. Ilyan Goldfine, the President Inter-American Development Bank in Washington, DC. The lone man on the panel. Thank you very much for joining us here as well. And Gabriella Booker, the Executive Director at Oxfam International, Kenya. Thank you very much, Gabriella, for joining us. I also want to make a note of the fact that CNBC TV18, of course we are India's leading news brand, we have started a campaign called the Future Female Forward Initiative. It is a women's collective. We launched this in November and we hope to mainstream this conversation, not just in India, but take it global and that is why we're here having this conversation. Minister, let me start by asking you. You talk about the need to unlock the value that women can make, the difference that women can make as far as economic recovery is concerned, economic resilience is concerned. From your experience in Nigeria, in terms of how you are looking at gender budgeting, for instance, what is the way forward, what has been the experience so far? Well, let me thank the organizers for inviting me and it's really a privilege to be here. We do realize in government that we have to make deliberate policies and take deliberate actions to make sure that there's more inclusiveness of women in every facet of our society, not just in government, but in every facet of our society. And during the COVID it became very, very glaring that whether it's the impact of COVID or impact of climate change or economic slowdown that the most affected people are actually women. So in designing any policy, whether it's fiscal, monetary or trade, we have to consciously take into account how does this affect women. And we found a way to cause that to happen in Nigeria. First of all, when we were designing the economic sustainability plan to support us during the COVID period, we designed a cluster of programs and we required that each program should have at least 50% of the beneficiaries to be women. So that was one of the targets that was set for every agency of government that was provided with funding to implement the economic sustainability plan. Then in our national budget, we also made a provision to and ensure that MDAs consciously look at their programs and project with the gender lens. So you need to be asking, how can I implement this program in a way that women will benefit? Whether it is road construction or economic empowerment. For example, when we developed the social register to be able to provide support to the most vulnerable in the society, we ended up having a situation even before the COVID, that 92% of the caregivers on our social register that is meant to provide cash transfers to people are women. And also we found out that when we provided small loans, very small businesses, that performance of the loans from the women in terms of recovery is about 99%. So it just meant to us that taking care of what the women need is actually a very wise economic decision. You're able to get more mileage for whatever limited resources that you have. So we're doing that in every sector of the economy and we're beginning to see the results. We've designed a monitoring framework that enables agencies of government to report to us with data in a disaggregated format. So we see what the outcomes are of the plans and the funding that we have deployed. Well, thank you very much for your opening comments. And I think that's a very important point that you make and it's well articulated. It's not just important and imperative to bank on women. Women are also good to bank with. And I think that is the experience that the financial sector will certainly validate. Minister Irani, let me address that same issue with you. You know, we just heard here from the Minister from Nigeria talking about the need for financial inclusion, access to credit. There are several measures that the Indian government has already put in place, opening bank accounts for instance, the Mudra scheme for instance, for the benefit of our participants here and those who are watching, it is a scheme to try and ensure that there is access to credit for women who are looking at creating their own enterprises. How has the journey been so far? But more importantly, as we look ahead, given the context of the setbacks that we have seen through the course of the pandemic and the disproportionate impact it's had on women, what more needs to be done? Shireen, you began this conversation with a very ominous figure on the wall, which is 151 years needed to bring about parity and economic participation by women. How do you arrive at that number? Which level of economic participation or empowerment do you measure to reach that number? Let me give you an Indian context. We are a billion plus society of which 1.35 billion is the population of which 1.3 billion Indians now have a digital identity. Men and women equally so. We are a 700 million literate people of which 600 million are in the workforce, men and women included, some in the organized sector, some in the unorganized sector. When you talk about fiscal services, we need to see what did India do pre-pandemic because not much can be spoken of, post-pandemic or as we've transitioned out of pandemic from a gender perspective, just leave without recognizing what happened before the pandemic. Now in the year 2014, the prime minister said that in a billion plus society, we have close to 400 million people who are unbanked, out of which 220 million were women. The banks reached out for the first time in India. No individual walked up to a bank branch. Banking correspondents reached out to our society at large at zero deposits, opened up bank accounts for 440 million Indians of which 220 million were women. Now you speak about Mudra Yojna. It was not a gendered fiscal service. Mudra Yojna was basically a financial service where up to a million rupees for small industry, cottage industry, that credit support without collateral was proposed by the government. There was no subscription that this would be the agency of only women. What surprised people in the fiscal world was that 70% of the 320 million loans given out were taken by women, which means many recognize that at the entry level of enterprise, you have a female talent which by that time was appearing to be unrecognized. Then we came to a stage where we said if we want to provide support physically for mid-sized companies, the startup regime, should we do this again? Not a gendered financial service, but stand-up India came about. Nobody expected that 80% of the beneficiaries will turn out to be women, which means that in a world which is talking about and especially in Davos where we speak about scaling, re-skilling, this was a latent talent which was unrecognized. Women had the skill sets to drop a business plan, go to a bank, convince the banking sector of their business potential and as ministers rightly said, even in India, the NPA is 1% or less, which means when you support the agency of women, what do you support? It makes fiscal sense, it is societally empowering and it is civilizationally beneficial. Again, I'll go back to the number that you have pronounced here. How does India feature in that gap in dice? Which part of Indian womanhood is not recognized in that in dice? You speak about political power. I have 1.4 million women who get elected to office in the grass root structure of governance which is up in Chayat. These are women who spend money from the Indian treasury on issues which impact not only women's issues but also society at large, looking at infrastructure, the grass root, health, education, they don't get recognized in that in dice. It's as though they don't exist. I have 15 million women today in India who sit in administrative governance positions who don't get recognized by the in dice. Do they not exist? They very well do. I have 80 million women in India who handle singularly close to $32 billion worth of credit for themselves as a coalition. They skill themselves digitally and physically on many issues. They are a part of a supply chain of craft, of agro-processing. They don't figure there because they are not large industrial houses to sit at tables such as this and say we matter. We keep the economic wheels turning. So when you put money behind the agency of women, is it only enough to do so fiscally? What are the human development issues on which if you put that money on infrastructure, particularly supporting women, that it'll have a GDP impact. So again, I turn the clock back to 2014 when the prime minister said from the ramparts of the Red Fort, if we speak of gender justice, can we start by building toilets for women? Now no man in my country, and I'm sure I can speak for many democracies across the world, would ever stand on Independence Day and say let's build toilets for women. It's not politically glamorous, but my prime minister did. We built 110 million individual household toilets for women. Now if you look at the fiscal impact, in 2013 the World Bank report said that due to the lack of sanitation facilities, there is a negative 6% impact on our GDP. So while this looked like a pronounced intervention for women's health and sanitation, it had an impact on the economy as a whole. So I think that if we are looking at the cause of women to be served, we need to recognize, and we have set an example in India, that it cannot be siloed. Only fiscal, only academic, only skill, it has to be a holistic enterprise. Governments, policymakers, private sector, all have to come together. It is not about the revolution that can be walked singularly. No, it is absolutely not about a revolution that can be walked singularly. You need all stakeholders on board and all hands on deck. But Mr. Goldfein, picking up from what Minister Irani said, and of course she's also questioned the metrics that are used to come up with the gender parity survey that the World Economic Forum puts out. I want to understand from you about the civilizational impact, the economic impact that emancipating women brings to the table. The work that you are doing, for instance, as an agency at this point in time, take me through the empirical evidence that suggests that if you put more fiscal and monetary might to address this issue, we are going to be able to see multiplier impact. Well, thank you. Thank you for being here. I think it's an honor. It's a pleasure to be here. There are quite a few initiatives for development banks. All the financing linked to indicators. When you give financing to governments, to local governments, even to the private sector, they are linked to gender gaps and good practices. There are also initiatives of putting businesses and societies and governments together in platforms. We have a platform called Women Entrepreneurs Finance Initiatives. They are also the accelerators with the World Economic Forum. There's also financing new innovations. For example, we're working with Laboratoria, which is a social enterprise initiatives that train women to get digital skills. So all of this is part of the effort. But you are asking me something which is more, I will say, economy-wide. What is the impact of not having the gender party in terms of growth and in terms of resilience, which is quite important. I will say, at least from the region, we are coming, there are three very important impact. First, we know that women represent 60% of university graduates in Latin America. But we are not using this talent in the labor market. For several reasons. So if we were able to use that to reduce the gap, you could be able to generate more growth, more productivity, just because you're putting in the labor market more talent that you're not using. That's the first one. The second is that we're getting old in the region. Latin America will become old, not so far away. And we will be having more people retiring than working. So if we are not able to put a very important part of the population, female part, into the labor market, this lower worker participation will get worse. So that's the second reason why it affects growth. The third one, which is very Latin America, informality. If there's a gender gap in informality, informality in the sense that we have more females in the informal sector. And informal sector have two problems. One, it's less resilient because if you have a pandemic and you need to have public services, you don't get to them. And also, we also know that in the informal sector, productivity is lower. And this is very, formalities has been very pervasive in Latin America. So what we can do? Well, you will say, well, let's use fiscal tools. What does it mean, fiscal tools? Usually when you have income gaps on other gaps, you use the tax system to do it. But in the informal sector, you're not gonna reach them because they're not formally, the tax system cannot really reach them. So what can we do? There are ways to try to be transparent. And we mentioned here about the gender budgeting, which is basically the way I understand it, is being very transparent and open and see the gender gap in all the fiscal measures. Both the services you provide, the subsidies you give, the sectors you finance, see what are you doing in terms of gender from your fiscal policy. And there are a lot of things you can do. You can allocate spending to either services that reach women in a direct way like healthcare or you can finance sectors, service sectors, where you have more female participation. So there are things you can do from a macro perspective, even though you don't use the tax system. Or for example, you can use other indicators, which is having in public procurement, buy from those that suppliers that have a better practice in terms of gender. So all of this is part of the toolkit, micro toolkit that you can use even though you have to reach a more informal sector. That's a very valid point that you make that very often the participation of women is on the informal side, that's not captured and that also makes it harder for them to be able to access the financial system. And of course, the toolkit that you spoke of in many parts of the world in different ways, shapes and forms that toolkit is being used. Gabriela, I wanna understand from you. You believe that the impact of the pandemic on gender parity and gender inequality has been profound and staggering, but you also believe that it is not an inevitable issue, that it is an issue that can be fixed. Now outside of some of the fiscal measures that you spoke of and I know that Oxfam is asking for higher taxes, tax the rich to be able to finance some of these goals that we spoke of, what is the roadmap that you want us to take forward? Thank you, so good questions and I would like to build on what the other panelists have said and go back to the 151 years because as was said, this is a figure, a target that we have, but it's in fact sliding back instead of going forward and the pandemic hit a very unequal world, unequal in so many ways economically, socially, gender unequal and it hit women disproportionately. And so we know on issues like education, of course there was already a huge education gap between boys and girls, but unfortunately in the crisis moment, more girls were pushed out of education. So that's not only an issue for the present but for the long-term future. So it's not just as you were saying earlier an issue of their rights, but also of their future economic contribution. So that's a big concern. Also women lost many more jobs than men for multiple reasons and young women lost twice the amount of jobs that young men lost. So that again is long-term and there are issues like if I was talking about the 60% graduates number in Latin America, why is it that they're not represented in the job market? And this, of course, the point that we haven't talked so much about is women's work in unpaid care work. There's unpaid and paid care work and that is central to our economies and it was central to our economies before the pandemic, but it became much more visible. This very invisible work became more visible and it's the reason behind many of these trends that we're now seeing and it's something that is not recognized in, for example, we measure countries GDP. So care is silently a motor behind that we need to make more central and something else that happens after the pandemic we've had all the shocks that we all know about and we have a huge debt crisis around the world. So countries have very tight fiscal spaces, very little maneuvering in order to invest in what matters. Health would be a priority after what we've lived through, but on average countries are spending $1 in health versus $4 in debt repayments. So that is the situation of very difficult choices and if we don't look at it more holistically as a system problem, we're not going to address it by initiatives here and there. So we do have an economic system that is predicated on benefiting the few and the reason we talk about taxation of wealth, as you're saying and the report we launched yesterday is because in reality the tax system has been shifting over the last 40 years to be on the shoulders of workers and on the average citizen who buys products and services of VAT and wealth is not taxed in the majority of context. So only four cents in every dollar of taxation comes from wealth and this change in taxation mix is actually a very feminist concept because in reality most of the billionaires, if you know, if you see are mostly white men and that's actually the system that is both patriarchal, neocolonial and that perpetuates these inequalities continues to perpetuate this. And so if we change this tax mix, the women on the other side are more represented in poverty, unfortunately. So we need to address this by looking at the sources of funding, the budget that is going to allow us to invest in what matters more to women and there, the care economy is fundamental, education, health and that will be the basis for more equal participation. I think many important aspects and specifically as far as the care economy is concerned, forget the fact that large part of it continues to be unpaid and hence not measured and hence the contribution isn't acknowledged as well but for women to fully be able to integrate into the labor market, care economy and evolving the care economy, making it affordable and accessible is going to be crucial because a disproportionate part of the burden of care falls on women. But minister, the context has been set very clearly by each one of you. And I think there is a lot of convergence in thoughts and ideas on what needs to be done to ensure that we do better on this front. And I want to understand from you specifically when we talk about social protection, when we talk about fiscal choices and fiscal space and it is getting constrained as Gabriella pointed out, the debt burden increasing at this point in time when an error of higher interest rates and high inflation as well. How do you as a leader, as a policy maker make those choices? What are those choices going to be as you move forward? Well, it's indeed very difficult times. The world has been going through a number of crises, whether it's COVID or climate, several things that we have to cope with on a daily basis. It means we have to do more, we have to find how to do more with less because the fiscal space is indeed very, very constrained. A lot of our resources is going towards debt service. So for every Naira we spend, we try to see how do we get the most benefit from it? And that's one of the reasons why we have to take the decision to say, how does it affect women? Because not only because they're half of the population, but because they are farther behind than the rest of the population and also because they tend to, when you give a small business, a woman's small business money, they tend to manage it better and therefore more results, more outcomes. And we need to do this on a consistent basis and we need to do this according to our plan. So we did a national, medium-term national development plan that across all of the sectors in the plan, we had the gender lens. And we costed the plan to require $775 billion years. 15% of that plan is, contribution is from the government. So we need to now also find how we can support private businesses, both large small as a medium, as well as small enterprises to contribute more to the economy. We need to also look at how do we create partnerships between the public and the private sector to enable the private sector channel its resources that is required to fund the development plan in the best possible way. While they get returns, we also get the contribution to the growth that is very important to need. And in all of this, there has to be a systematic system of monitoring of what are the outcomes of these targets that we have set. We have supported our National Bureau of Statistics that for every category of data that they produce, they must make sure that the data is also disaggregated, especially for social reporting like on poverty index on jobs, that the data is disaggregated. So we see whether we're on the right track or we need to continuously remodel. In the financial services also, we have seen data that shows that women further behind in terms of financial inclusion. So there's a conscious effort also within the financial service using digital ID to bring as many women, unlike India, we have a lot of population that are still not banked. They're not in the banking system and the largest proportion of those are women. So when you bring women into the banking system, you're able to give them financing through the banking system more seamlessly. Whether, and if government has interventions to provide, you're able to do that because they are bank accounts and identity numbers that you're able to channel those supporters. So the policy has to be deliberate and it has to be consistent whether it is a private sector company, whether it is a public sector company or even whether it is the financial services and other services. We need to start also at the ground level in engaging youths. Well, by the way, we don't have the problem we have. We have like 60% of our 206 million people are youths and very active youths, very vibrant. So in engaging youths, we have to begin to make that provision to say a certain percentage of the youth we employ whether we're government or business should be girls so that they're from the beginning, they grow through the system and then they have a chance to grow to the top. Well, you ended on an aspect which is controversial, an aspect that I think evokes a fair amount of discussion and debate on whether there should be reservation for women in different sectors. Should it be at the board level? Should it be at the entry level? And I think many companies and countries are grappling with this issue. But you talked about collaboration with the private sector and I want to move that forward, Minister Irani, to talk about global collaboration as well. This is a universal problem. It's a universal challenge. It is not Nigeria's problem or India's problem. You need to customize and design solutions that are relevant for each country or each company but this is a universal challenge. In the context of that, I want to address with you, India takes on the G20 presidency. One of the issues that has been prioritized for global collaboration by India as part of the G20 agenda is women-led development. So what can we expect on that front? I think, Shirin, we have to recognize that the vocabulary of gender justice is undergoing a change without much reflection. On this panel today, we spoke about women from the context of the labor market. Not many of us prioritize women as entrepreneurial leaders as though we as a gender are to feed just the labor market. So when we talk about the vocabulary of gender justice, we spoke today in this house about emancipation of women. And I'm very proud that the Prime Minister changed that narrative and we saw a tectonic shift where we now say women-led development which means that for any nation to prosper, women have to be the helm of economic affairs. We have a female finance minister. That being said, I want to just elaborate on one or two challenges. We need to recognize that we will not have a one size fits all solution. We have differentiated national potentials. We have differentiated national responsibilities and national challenges. Now, people say that technology is a great leveler and enabler for all genders. But what is the language of technology today available for women? I will not speak from any other experience but the Indian experience. We are looking at an age of automation. The language of automation is English. India has 16,000 dialects, 125 languages which are constitutionally recognized. If you want to empower the agency of women technologically, do we have that technology in my native languages? That is one issue that needs to be addressed. It is not only a solution that we are seeking for gender justice. I think it has great financial potential for companies. The second issue is that when you talk about the presidency and India at the helm of that affair, we also look at the digital transformation. Gabriella spoke about the red flagging of health spend. Now let's take another Indian example which is the Ayushman Bharat program which is the world's most, I think, elaborate, ambitious health program. We put money behind ensuring that for 1,300 diseases which includes cardiovascular issues and many other challenges that emanate from the health systems, 26,000 hospitals across the country are in panels servicing 100 million families which means at least 100 million women where they can seek access free of cost for 1,300 diseases. Now what is the impact? Societally and culturally it was presumed that issues like breast cancer and cervical cancer are not largely spoken of given the cultural context of close societies, that is the presumption one had. Now if you look at just one component of the success of the Ayushman Bharat program, the health program, we have in the past two years seen 130 million Indian women get themselves scanned for cervical cancer and breast cancer and receive treatment if they deemed it medically fit. Free of cost, governance and democracy has delivered on the health aspect at least in India. So what is the agency that we bring to the G20 presidency? That when you talk about digital transformation it need not be limited again to fiscal engagements, to building of corporations, to building of enterprise. It can have a cumulative effect across various segments. Academics, we had a stagnant education policy for three decades. We brought about a new education policy. Did we do it only in the halls of power in New Delhi? No, we did not. The Prime Minister ensured that we have over 260,000 village education councils. All the councils were called upon. Universities and college systems and parent teacher associations across all districts of India were asked, what is the kind of academic support you seek for your children? The parents' alliance, the alliance of young students were all called upon. Then a policy was arrived upon. And one of the benefits of that collaboration between government and citizens is that for the first time India now has a gender inclusion fund in our education policy to help build academic infrastructure particularly aimed at young girls and women. So the other issue which we hope through W20 to also leverage is the desire to ensure that we transition from innovation, especially in the gender space to enterprise because a lot is left to be done in that segment. Today 42% of STEM graduates in India are women. How do I encourage them that innovate for enterprise? And I think if that becomes a global call for action, much change can happen because do we reduce women only to consumption of technology or do we want to support them to become leaders of technological institutions or technological enterprise? So I think that the G20 gives us a unique opportunity to speak about our experiences, speak about our commitment, but also say to the G20 coalition that we hope that this expression of experience somewhere percolates to the global south, to empower the global south because we as a part of the presidency are saying that this is not about the Indian future. This is about global future and gender justice for all women across all geographies. Absolutely, and I think that is the perfect opportunity for us to get our comments in from our participants here because it is going to require, as I pointed out, dialogue at different levels, dialogue within countries, within companies and within the international alliance as well. So yes, ma'am, you have a question. I'm going to get a microphone across to you. Please go ahead. So thanks again for this opportunity. I'm Luana Genoa from Brazil. I work with Inclusion Deliber Market. I'll be brief. In Brazil, in Latin America, we are more than 210 million black and indigenous women and from marginalized groups. And I just would like to get to know from different reality standpoints. How do you ensure intersectionality in policymaking and addressing marginalized groups needs? I mean, especially from non-dominant groups, like from low castes or low ethnicities or especially in Brazil, black and indigenous women, for example. It can be obviously from desegregated data standpoint, but also from a tax standpoint. But I just would like to know how do you do affirmative actions in different realities? Would you like to take that? Thank you. And a very good question and something that I was beyond the intersectionality that you're talking about in terms of different ethnic backgrounds. We also need to speak about different gender identities, queer, non-binary, all the different identities that people have. We've been speaking very much in a binary way and that's part of our challenge going forward is great, as you say. And it's something for us to work on together on how policies can really address the intersecting identities. And we know already we're starting from 178 countries that have laws that restrict full participation of women, let alone all these different gender identities that need to be central. So policies that are centered on what the different groups would require specifically. So it would be depending on context, on difficult to say, a global response, but to say that it should be central to any policy work. Absolutely. We have a question here as well. Can I get the microphone? Thank you. My name is Paola Escobarra. I'm a Chilean journalist. And I wanted to ask you about quotas, because in Chile, we had a very interesting debate about gender parity regarding the new constitutional process. So it was accepted to have gender parity in the organ that's going to write the new constitution. The first project was rejected, but now we are going to a new one. And gender parity is the one thing, is one of the few things that is going to be, again, part of the project. So it's going to be written 50% women, 50% men. But that is about political participation. Now the government wants to pass a law on 40% quota in corporations. So there's debate, you know? Business people, they don't like to be, to have this kind of affirmative action by law. So there's debate about that. So I wanted to know, what do you think about quotas? Specifically, incorporations. Thank you. Mr. Goldfinne, would you like to take that? And as I said, this is a controversial issue. And I think every country is grappling with it. In India, we now have made it mandatory for women to have representation on boards. But there is a larger debate on how much and what more needs to happen if at all you go down the reservation road or the affirmative action road. Your thoughts? Well, there are different, I would say, political realities. And I think each country has an intelligent way of dealing with it. In terms of the regional banks, what we have been doing is having indicators and targets for gender. And I realize that there are different identities that should be incorporated in that regard. There's this issue about the transversality of gender versus development. But I think we have to have the three of them, gender, development, ethnicity, and other things. We need to put them together. I think the world is getting more complex. But for now, what the regional bank has been doing is looking at the targets has something to achieve for the loans you give, for the projects we do, for everything we do. But we don't have, we don't promote the regulations for the country, the countries do the regulations by themselves. Fair enough. And I think the private sector at this point in time is many CEOs have actually mandated, self sort of mandated that they should have targets in terms of 25% of women in leadership roles, 50%. And I think that varies across different companies. Yes, ma'am, you wanted to make a point. Thank you so much. My name is Minta Diop. I'm from Senegal, the founder of the Pharmafix Solidarity, but also a special envoy of the African Union on women, peace, and security. I think we all say that investing on women is the right thing to do, but not just the right thing, but the smart thing. As minister have said, you know, it's impact on the economic growth and that's the reality. But now we wanted to see how it translates in what you have said in the leadership, the participation of women in decision making, in the boardroom, in the political participation, but also in many areas. You know, in some of our countries, we have seen the patriarchal system, which is very strong. Even if you spend a lot of resources on the women's empowerment, it's still the glass ceiling. And I like this 151 years to come, 151 before we get there. Even though we invest on education, on health, on everything. What we have realized is women are still, you know, the glass ceiling is still there. So the role of men, what's the role of men in this? We need to look at that in the cultural barriers, the traditional barriers, the so many barriers that we need also. So I don't know what will be, like what we say in Africa, the positive masculinity. How do we engage with the boys as well to make sure that it's not the financial situation only, but there are other aspects that we need to take into consideration. I couldn't agree more with you. We need much more of positive masculinity. And minister, let me end by asking each one of you in exactly, I think we've got 30 seconds for each of you. You know, you've previously said that women must have a seat at the table and they must be co-creators of any strategic intervention. And to the point that was made here by the lady, how do we get more women to get a seat at the table? It's actually what she said is engaging more men, finding more he for she's is what we call it. Last year, we tried to amend our constitution to be able to have a commitment of 30% elected positions for women and we failed despite all of the campaigning because the men were asking, okay, if we give you the 30%, what about the 70%? Are you going to be also a part of that? And it didn't go through. So it's really very important to get, and there are some men that are very sympathetic to get more men on our side because that's the only way you can make progress. Absolutely. Minister Irani. Well, I think that I can very happily today elaborate on how if men are at the helm of this partnership, things change. Nobody expected Prime Minister Modi to speak about building of toilets. He did and he got it done. He's the first Prime Minister, irrespective of his gender, let me say this, who gave India its first menstrual hygiene administrative protocol. He is the first Prime Minister in India who passed in both Houses of Parliament medical termination of pregnancy at 24 weeks for women without a whimper or a noise from any other man in Indian politics. He is the first man or woman for that matter who stood on Independence Day just, I think, two years ago and spoke about access to menstrual hygiene products by girls and women in our administrative systems. For one rupee, he said, go get it. The fact that a man at the helm of affairs has brought about a change not only in discourse but also in administrative capacity ensured the gender justice percolates. I think it's a very fine example to reiterate what she says. The lady says, yes, we need that partnership. What is significant is that we talk about gender parity today in a room which has a smattering of gentlemen. Yes, we need more rooms like this. We need more conversation and we need equal participation. I absolutely agree. I'm gonna give Mr. Goldstein the final say, but Gabriella, very quickly, 20 seconds, we're out of time. How do we get more women at the seat of the table? And of course, how do we engage and partner more with men? So I think we need to go back to the subject matter of the panel, so economic recovery. And I think it is about, we're saying it's a holistic rethinking and we're not wanting to recover to where we were before. We want to really transform a system where we're all at the table in meaning that we are valuing all our identities and understanding that together we make societies that thrive but both because it's a right but also because it makes economic sense. And the care economy being at the center and I'm happy that the West is creating a council for the care economy and we are participating on it and it's working across sectors that we transform. Mr. Goldstein, the final 10 seconds to you. I just want to say that we are already engaging with positive masculinity here with me. Well, we have an example of that right here on the panel. Ministers, Gabriella and Mr. Goldstein, thank you so much for joining us here. It has been an interesting conversation with many ideas and insights on the table on what we can do to take this course forward, what we can do to champion the case for more women to participate in the global economy. And of course, as we've all pointed out, there is no one size fits all solution. It will need to be customized but there needs to be greater degree of collaboration. On your screens, ladies and gentlemen, that is the final slide that we are going to show you. That is what is happening at the World Economic Forum, the many initiatives of the forum to try and see that we can bridge this gap, we can mine the gap. That's of course the global gender gap report. I know Ms. Irani has issues with that but that's a debate for another day. We've got the gender parity accelerators and the global parity aligns. So, you know, the QR codes are there if you want to find out more about any of these initiatives, go ahead and do so. Do send us your feedback in your comments, your suggestions, we would love to hear from you. Once again, many, many thanks to my panel and many thanks to the participants. You've been a wonderful audience. Thank you very much for joining us here this morning.