 Hey, hello, everybody. How are you doing today? Welcome to another episode of Hibachi Talk on Think Tech Hawaii. I am, unfortunately, not the tech czar. I'm Andrew, the security guy here today. The tech czar is indisposed today is what I'll say. My co-host is here, Christine, the leadership gal. I think she's been on once or twice and our guest, Shannon Edie, from the president of Holomua Consulting Group. Today, we're going to get into how technology sort of impacted government contracting. So we'll talk a little bit of maybe transparency, privacy, a little bit of competitive research is easier. Some things about it now that I think will be of interest to those of you out there. And you know, government's a big section of business in Hawaii. But the first thing we're going to do that we always do is try to get to know our guests a little bit. So, Shannon, talk to us. You can start from birth. Or, you know, where you'd like to start. Maybe where she grew up. From your background, where you grew up, and take us through that a little bit. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, first of all, for having me on the show. I really appreciate this opportunity. We've been trying to drag around here for months, but, you know, thank you. I was born and raised in Hawaii. I left for college. When I graduated from high school, I went to the University of Puget Sound, where I received a Bachelor of Arts in business. And then I moved down to California, where I went to Santa Clara Law School. Wow. All right. And you're one that came back, though. So, we have the brain drain, because you're one that brought the brains back. So, thank you. I did, but it did take me a little bit of time. So, I actually practiced in San Francisco in the Bay area for a number of years before I returned to private practice here. Good. Well, I'm glad you're back with Hobamua Consulting. And we'll talk about... So, where'd you go to high school? Where'd you... What's that? Where'd you grow up? Of course, the ultimate question, right? Everybody makes their associations, right? They sell where you went to high school. Right. I went to come in my high school. Oh, awesome. Okay. So, it's because it's, what, 3 to 12 or it's... It starts at kindergarten. So, yes. K through 12. I'm considered a lifer. Really? How was that experience? It was great for me. I mean, I will admit that I actually didn't want to go there when I was in kindergarten. Oh, this is, you know, people will see this. Well... Oh, when you were in kindergarten. When I was in kindergarten, I wanted to go to the school down the street, because I thought it would be fun to walk. So, that was the only thing... What school was that? I honestly, I can't remember what school it was. You wanted to walk to school? Do you have to take a bus? Yes. Oh, I see. Yeah. Who wants to... What kid wants to go on a bus at 7 a.m. or whatever? Wow. Okay. So, Kamehameha for life. And then did they... Do they have some programs ongoing or still... I mean, are you still involved with Kameha? Because most of the people I meet that went there kind of keep some involvement or had some involvement in their further education as they went on. And it's a great program over there. It is a wonderful program. I'm definitely still involved. My company is also, you know, remains very much involved with their programs. Oh, good. So, they have a great internship program that they do every summer. And, you know, yes, a lot of the alumni are very thankful for the opportunities that Kamehameha presented to us. And for me personally, I really, I received scholarships through college and then law school. Awesome. So, I definitely tried to give back whenever possible. Good for you. That's amazing. And then you said you came back and started Hobamua Consulting. So, we'll take a look at something that we do. We have a little section called, You Know Got One Tech Job. So, we're going to take a look at this real quick. And hopefully, this was not a Kamehameha grad. I picked this up because it was a little bit of technology. So, this guy tweeted out, Hey Ryan, we found two more four-bottle packs of dogfish heads. Might as be a touch beer. When we drink, we do it right. It gets lizard. So, obviously he posted this on the American Red Cross's Twitter feed. Oh, okay. This is a guy like me who probably manages multiple feeds. And he probably had, didn't mean to put that on that. So, be careful with your technology. What you put out there stays out there much like this show is always going to be out there. You'll be forever alive on YouTube. I'm curious if he still works there. Well, I don't know Ryan personally. I just got that as an example. I'm sort of like this technology and transparency thing. So, Hobamua Consulting, you came back. And so, you came back, were you here for a while before you started? Did you have the idea of getting your own firm going or? Well, my business partner, Daphne Tong-Pave, and I, we were actually working together at a defense contractor here. Okay. And through our work with this company, we came to see, notice that there was a need in the community for, you know, more advanced guidance in terms of federal contracting. Ah, of course. And specifically when it comes to the small business contracting programs that exist in the federal sector. So, we ultimately decided to start our own company with the support of our employer actually. So, it worked out very well for us. And having Hobamua Consulting Group allows us to help a wider array of small businesses. Sure, sure. That's really where our passion lies. And so, we love what we do and being able to help small businesses. And you're a, so you're a woman-owned business. Are you, do you have those classifications like Christine's a woman-owned 8A? Are you an 8A or a native? Do you have some of those classifications yourself? Currently, we don't except for a woman-owned small business. Okay, awesome. And is that self-certifying or how does that work? I don't. As a woman-owned, yeah. Yeah, self-certification. I'm curious though, you do have a foundation. Is that correct? We do. We have a, it's called the Ho'okumu Foundation. It's still very, very new. You know, we're interested in economic development for the native Hawaiian community. So we're still in the process of, you know, trying to develop our programs. And as part, I'm curious if part of that is, is from, based on the changes in regulation with regard to native Hawaiian organizations and the certification that's required moving forward? For us personally, it didn't have an impact. But there, you're correct. There are new regulations that the SBA has, has put out relative to the native Hawaiian organizations. So we have definitely seen an increase in the interest level of individuals and businesses that want to pursue that program. And to pursue that program, you do have to have a nonprofit organization. Awesome. I see, are those typically set up, they're to feed back to native Hawaiian issues, native Hawaiian populations. Is it specific how they give back or? The regulations are not specific in terms of how the nonprofit organizations should be giving back to the community. So it really just depends on the specific nonprofit and kind of what their interests are and how they can see themselves best contributing to the community. I see. And then you demonstrate it with some metrics, some financial metrics or something. Right. Generally speaking, it is in terms of financial contributions to the community. But there are some nonprofits that have specific programs. And I do believe that their metrics would involve how many individuals they are able to reach. Oh, like, so I remember we talked to a member, Forest Rizal, who's been on our show by the way. He has a one, Purple Maia, and he was looking, I think you hooked him up with some organizations that needed to do some donations or was looking for someone to donate to or a program. Exactly. That's amazing. You know, Forest's program is, Purple Maia is a really great program. And, you know, when you introduced us to him and we were able to kind of speak with him, it really resonated with us. And we felt that it would also resonate with some of the Native Hawaiian organizations that we work with. So, yes, the Native Hawaiian organizations can form their own programs, or they can financially support other organizations like Purple Maia. Wow. Do they do things like... Because you have a foundation that you're on a board of from AFSEA? Yep, AFSEA Foundation, Education Foundation. Is it a similar type of organization or does it have nothing to do with the Native Hawaiian? It's a similar, in the sense that it's a foundation and their whole purpose in life is to kind of give back to the community. But it just differs in terms of the programs. Okay. I think that the value for the Native Hawaiian organization foundations is that they truly give back to the Native Hawaiians. I'm sure there's a bunch of programs that they do that people aren't even aware of. And they're more like, excuse me, scholarship, education. They're not, like, they're not building housing or are they, or are they out of some... No, like, what's the range you've seen? Maybe that's a good question. Yes, I think there are a number that do provide scholarships. I think because of the nature of the business that they're in, they try to support STEM education. Sure, sure. So there are, you know, graduate level scholarships for that and then, you know, purple male kind of falls within that but at a lower age level. So I think that fits in nicely. Yes, there are other organizations that focus on trying to help Native Hawaiian entrepreneurship. Okay, sure. We need that in Hawaii. Exactly. And then I know that there's another organization that focuses on education in middle schools in terms of technology and that sort of thing. Yeah, well, it's interesting. I was meeting with Jeff Bloom and Dave Stevens from KCC just yesterday, talking about how do we get technology, you know, into the high school level? How do we pick these kids up a little bit sooner, you know, and before they become hackers, right? You know, that's kind of where our discussion was going. And there's a lot of efforts. And I see that there's not a lot of coordination sometimes amongst these groups in Hawaii. And, you know, there's funds and there's programs and there's folks that are trying to give and looking for things to give to. But it's not like it's not driven very well. Seems like, you know, there's no road map, maybe, for example. But I think, I don't think that that's a problem that is limited to Hawaii. I think just generally speaking, it's difficult for nonprofits to kind of work together. And just because I think people have their own ideas about how they can benefit the community. And so sometimes if their ideas or their programs don't necessarily gel with someone else's, even though maybe they have the same goal, you know, they still want to pursue their own route. I see. Interesting. Is that something you guys struggle with at your foundation as well? Is it purely scholarship? It's purely scholarships, specifically in the STEM field. But, I mean, we still have difficulty fulfilling those scholarships or finding students that are capable of fulfilling those scholarships. Because it could be specific to STEM. We have one that's very specific at a master's and PhD level for cyber that they couldn't actually give the money away. It was $3,000 of free money that they couldn't find someone to give that money to. So, or it could be specifically related. I know a lot of the AFSEA scholarships that are given out are also specific to students in Hawaii, right? And so making sure the money kind of stays here. But that's not necessarily easy to fill. And it becomes more, I think, of marketing thing where you got to get the name out there. You got to get the information out there. You got to get a bunch of students who are interested. And I think, for us, it's more of a disconnect between us and the students is how do we get everybody together, right? How do the students become aware of the scholarships that are available out there? I would imagine, I don't know if it's easier with Native Hawaiians just because, you know, you have Kamehameha schools, right? And, I mean, you kind of know where the Native Hawaiian students are going, or at least a large majority of them. But I don't know if that necessarily makes it any easier. Yeah. Do they spearhead that? I mean, was there a lot of information as you're, like, I guess, graduating from your 12th grade? Or are they programs there to feed you to make you aware of all this, the help that's available? Well, I did graduate from high school. I don't want to date myself, but it was quite a while ago. It was quite a while ago. But, you know, when I was there, there was a lot of information that was put out for us. I guess that's grown. Do you go back and do that? Is that part of, do you deliver some of these messages because you know these groups that are wanting to help? Or is that...? I definitely do it informally. I don't actually, you know, have a formal, do it formally. But yes, informally, I always am trying to make, you know, students that I come into contact with, aware of all of the scholarship opportunities that are available. That's amazing. Yeah, so that's, um, so, Hulamua probably wasn't started with that idea. You have a business plan, but it seems like you're doing an awful lot of community service to me. Well, I think Daphne and I both are really, you know, intent on giving back to our community in whatever way possible. So, you know, definitely we're trying to run a business, but at the same time, we want to improve our community and we see economic development as a big piece of that. So actually, I think this conversation is really kind of interesting because one of the things that our nonprofit really wants to focus on is how to make sure that we, I don't necessarily feel like we should keep all the talent here, but how do we make it easier for them to come home when they're ready? Let's grease the skis, whatever it takes. Now, I'm with you. That's a great focus. You know, we need that. There's a, I think there's a lot of kids that want to come home. Their family's here, things like that. And, you know, they need a good wage rate. We've had all those discussions where there's, you know, the money is not the same. It doesn't work the way, you know, the same salary there, here, just doesn't get a house. It could be something as simple as just a lack of jobs, more so than the money that they'll earn. I think for a long time, we just haven't had the technology jobs. And I think it's slowly starting to rebuild with the focus on technology, cyber, a lot of the stuff the HVCA is doing with regard to bringing venture capital in here for potential technology startups. And that's really, if you think about it, it's only been in the last five to 10 years. Prior to that, there wasn't really a technology focus for Hawaii. I think we're still kind of stuck in the agriculture view, right? I mean, so I think just in the last five years it's really changed quite dramatically with regard to having technology available, technology jobs available here in the state of Hawaii. Okay. Well, we will, we're going to take a break and pay a few bills. I think this is a good time to stop. We're definitely going to get into this technology discussion in the contracting space. But, you know, if you're an A&A out there, you're a native Hawaiian, you want to figure out how to help the community out, call home a little consulting. We've got a Shannity here today to share some of that information that are doing a lot of great work over there. Let us take a quick break. We'll be right back with Shannity, and we'll talk about technology and government contracting. Aloha, Howard Wigg. I am the proud host of Code Green Think Tech Hawaii. I appear every other Monday at three in the afternoon. Do not tune in in the morning. My topic is energy efficiency. It sounds dry as heck, but it's not. We're paying $5 billion a year for imported oil. My job is to shave that, shave that, shave that down in homes and buildings, while delivering better comfort, better light, better air conditioning, better everything. So if you're interested in your future, you'd better tune in to me, three o'clock every other Monday, Code Green Aloha, and thank you very much. Hey, welcome back to Hibachi Talk. Andrew, the security guys here. I have Christine Lang, the co-host. She's the leadership gal, I think we called her. And we're here with Shannity from Holmoo Consulting. I've got a quick security minute for you. I want to talk a little bit about two-factor authentication. If you don't know what that is, just think about the fact that when you go to an ATM machine, you put your card in and then what? You've got to do something else. You've got to put in a pin code. So that's a form of two-factor authentication. That's something that you have, which is the card and something that you know, which is that pin number. We're going to show you a quick site for a site that I found called Turn It On. This is the name of the site. You can go to this website and you can plug in your credentials or a website that you go to. Maybe it's LinkedIn or whatever. And they have the instructions there for how to turn on two-factor authentication for any website that you use. And this will give you more security for your credentials and maybe it's going to send you a text that you can use to confirm that it's you logging in. But that way it will prevent someone from maybe hijacking your credentials. They looked over your show where you're in the coffee shop, whatever it may be, but it's a way to guarantee that it's you that's logging in. So take advantage of two-factor authentication. Anytime you get the opportunity and you know to secure your road a little bit better. So we're going to talk now. We're going to try to shift just a little bit and get into the technology of government contract and I think two-factor is a great kickoff to that. I don't use a lot of the government contracting sites. I know we have some staff to do. But I was thinking that for instance like the wide area workflow that we didn't, I'm not sure how old that is now, maybe 10 years, but does it have that type of stuff? Does it know our people are logging in? This is how you get paid by the government by the way. And it's really seamless. When we first started our company 20 years ago, you didn't know who was paying you. It was hard to hunt these people down. Today this process of submitting for payment is all tracked and there's a lot of transparency and visibility. Is it have some authentication when you log in or is it still just email password? That's a great question. It is still just email and password as far as I know for WAWF. And it's actually been around a lot longer than that. I'm pretty sure it's been around since the inception of our business, probably by 20 years. Oh maybe we just weren't in it. I just don't think a lot of people used it back then. Back then it was kind of like you could submit invoices, you know, just mail them or send them through email. Into the government. Yeah, but now it's a requirement. Correct me if I'm wrong. Oh, it's a requirement that you use WAWF. So, and that's just a way to submit your invoices and get paid for it. So in the companies that come to you that need help, are they, do you have to advise them they need to know a little bit about technology just to get involved with government? I mean, is that a thing that you come across? Well, we definitely have to have that conversation sometimes, especially for the less experienced contractors. But most of it initially comes in terms of internet access and how to go about initially maybe doing research, market research, on how to do business with the government. And how do you think that's changed? I mean, you know, there wasn't much transparency on all this when I was trying to do that work. You know, it's been quite a while back now. I think it's changed. What's your feeling? Well, you know, before we came here today, we were just talking about, since I've been in the industry, obviously, you know, the internet has been in existence. And I can't imagine how the contractors operated before the internet. But I believe that it has really kind of, the increased transparency has led to a lot of good things. It has also led to an increase in competition amongst contractors just because everyone now has access to the same information. Okay. So it has opened a lot of doors for people. But I think most importantly, from the contractor perspective, it has allowed contractors to really put together a strong strategy when it comes to pursuing and performing on government contracts. So I'll see if I can add some interesting information to that. So if you think about it, I mean, anybody can have a website, right? Anybody can go down to the State Department and get a business license. To do government contracting, you don't have to have a contractor's license. You basically just have to be listed in SAM. But anybody can do that is what I'm saying. So SAM is the government database of businesses that do work with the federal government. Yeah, just for our public. Yeah, so you list all of your information, what type of business you are. But I guess my point is, is you don't necessarily have to have an office. You don't necessarily have to have employees. You can be pretty much anywhere in the world and still be able to compete at the same level that established businesses who compete in the federal government space do. And I think that's the challenge, right? I would imagine as a contracting officer, you get six bid responses. You don't really know the difference between A, B, C, D, E, or F. Because they all look good on paper. Right. They could all have a website. They could all have a great bio of people who work there and legitimate, maybe not legitimate information. But you don't know. And I think that's what's made it more complicated over the last several years. Well, probably more than that. Probably the last 10, 15 years. Probably, yes. So, I think your point was you could sort of research what successful companies have done and then emulate that path to getting involved with something or to compete with them even, for example. Their award information is there. Now, not necessarily the way they build their bids, or is that public once it's been won, perhaps? Absolutely. You can get more information now on your competitors and certainly on specific contracts and specific contract actions. So, I think that's definitely very helpful. In terms of proposals that have been submitted, yes, you can submit a Freedom of Information Act request or FOIA request. And now you can do that online. So, in the past, it would take a really long time for you to do the request, mail it, have them receive it. And I think now that it can be done electronically, it does cut down on some of the time that you can it takes to get some of this information. However, the proprietary information will be redacted for whatever you receive. So, that's going to include pricing and anything that the company has labeled as proprietary. Yeah, you still might get to see the way they built a bid response, for example, all the items. So, you now get an example of how to build one that's similar or competitive. So, I would imagine it could give you- Freedom of Information Act, as now online. And I would imagine that it gives you the ability, again, to kind of do all that, like she was speaking about earlier, is all that market research in the beginning to kind of know what that particular market is, what that particular government agency is buying, how much they're buying, what contracts vehicles they're using. All of that information is available to anyone. So, the FOIA is only pertinent to the government. I can't request information from you. There may be times, and you can't request it directly, but through a FOIA request to a specific agency, they may then have to come to the contractor for specific information. They may also, before they send something out, ask you to review it just to make sure that you're okay with it. So, you can't FOIA something directly from a company. Like we found, I said, Christy, how much you make? You know, just send me, make sure I make it the same. Okay, interesting. So, transparency in the contracting process, it sounds like there's technology has leveled that playing field quite a bit for those willing to do their research. Now, I'm going to guess that this is not simple research, because I know these are two pretty smart, very smart ladies, let me say that. And so, when you guys are doing this research, what's the typical kind of thing someone would have to, how much time would someone spend trying to learn about a competitor, for example, would you advise them? I would say it could take quite a while. I think there is definitely some translation and interpretation that has to go on. Some of the websites that we use to do our market research are not very intuitive. And the information that you get back is very confusing, especially if you don't know the terminology or how to read things. So, it can take a little while for you to understand things. And because not everything is centralized on one website or one location, you may find yourself having to pull information from a number of different websites. Mmm, I see. And so, let's flip it a little bit and think, what about the privacy side of it? So, government now can't really had its problems, if we would call them that. But when I was in the Navy, we bought $800 hammers. Remember these days? I had some of those. They worked like my $2 hammers, by the way. But we had plenty of them because it was the Reagan days. The Navy was well-funded in those days. What has technology done on that side of the house? I mean, do you think it's, has it helped like the waste fraud and abuse programs? Are those better managed? I mean, you know, they're more, more tattletail, not tattletails, but what do they call them? The, you know, you can send, we set a type inspector general, you can send information to, to expose fraud and stuff like that. What's your, what do you see there? I mean, my sense is that technology has really cut down on fraud, waste and abuse. You know, probably not to the extent that, that we as taxpayers would like, but- Yeah, we want zero. We want zero, by the way. If you guys are watching out there. But from, from my perspective, I think that it certainly has, has cut down. I think now, you know, whenever something happens, it gets publicized everywhere. And so now just more people are aware- Oh, social media, for sure. Exactly, yes. So I think from that perspective, you know, it's, it has had an impact on the government side. You know, they certainly have their own share of, of problems with privacy. But I think with the internet, with social media, I think those concerns have had to, we've had to adjust, I think, in terms of- Our filters. Exactly. Do you think we expect more? Do we expect to know more and have access to more? I mean, I feel like I do. I want, I don't know if what I'm getting is true, but I expect to be able to get this information. I don't think it's, it should be hidden. Well, I would imagine it changes the whole way you do business. It probably changes the way that you market to the government, I think before it was very relationship-based, right? So you would go out and you'd meet with the contracting officers or the small business liaisons, or potentially the end user to whoever you were selling to. But now it's much more about that market research and understanding what are these agencies buying, who's going to buy what I'm selling, right? That's much more important. That research is much more important than it probably was 20 years ago. So knowing, and it's important to know that because you could potentially get an industry where, I'm sure you've heard this numerous times where people say, hey, I want to get into government contracting and what they do, the government doesn't buy. And it's amazing how many people think that doing business with the government, getting a particular certification to do business with the government is a way to get a lot of money out of the government. And that's not necessarily true. If anything, just in our particular business, knowing that we do commercial work and government work, I actually think the government work is much more difficult and much more tedious. Because even though the information is there, that just means you have to do more and more work because all of your competitors are aware of that information too. And it's all in the up and up. You can't schmooze your way into a particular customer. They have a requirement to make sure that they're treating everyone very fairly and making sure that the bid process at the end comes out appropriately. And so I would assume that bid protests have increased exponentially. Bid protests have increased. Actually, I just saw an article that since 2009, there's been a 60% increase in bid protests. Now, there hasn't necessarily been a corresponding increase in successful protests. Just flagrant or what do they call them? Unsubstantiated or what? Well, not necessarily unsubstantiated, but actually there has been the number of protests that have been sustained or basically successful doubled since last year, which it's still not a huge number, but it does show that perhaps the protests are not necessarily frivolous. But as Christine mentioned, having all this information accessible to us on the internet does make bid protests more likely. And one of the examples I had talked to Christine about was if you don't get a contract and you have questions about the company that did get it, you can look them up and perhaps they have some representations on their website that they're affiliated with a larger business. Well, that is a basis for a size protest. I see. All right. So if you want to learn how to do government business right, make sure you get a hold of Shannon at Holomu Consulting Group. They know what they're talking about over there. That's all the time we've got for today. Thank you so much, Shannon. Christine, thank you for being here. Thanks, everybody, to ThinkTech staff. Appreciate it. And we will see you again, I think Ordo will be back next week on Hibachi Talk. So, aloha, everybody.