 Abortion is perhaps one of the most controversial issues of our day. From marches on the streets to confrontations at clinics, we're forced to reconcile what some call health care and what others call murder. I've seen numerous debates on this topic and it usually gets highly emotional at home and them attacks fly freely. While the pro-abortion side shouts buzzwords like women's rights and health care, those who seek to end abortion proclaim the dignity and worth of every child inside the womb. A popular social dialogue channel Jubilee, you guys will know this channel if you've been a part of the channel for a long time, I've responded to their videos before. They got together four pro-lifers and four pro-abortion people to have a discussion, debate, dialogue, whatever you want to call it, and today I am going to be responding to that video. For those of you who are new on my channel and haven't bothered to look at the name, I am a Christian and I do believe abortion is murder. I also believe that Christians have the responsibility and obligation to care for those in challenging situations, not judging them, but loving them. I'll continue to flesh out my perspectives as I respond to the clips of this video. While I'm sure I'll have much in common with those who claim to be pro-life, I also anticipate we'll have different perspectives on our foundation of how we know abortion to be wrong and our methodology in going about proclaiming truth in love. This is going to be a doozy of a video guys, so sit back, relax, but not too much because it's about to get interesting. Nobody likes abortions. I think it is a very physically taxing process to go through, and I don't think anyone would want to intentionally have an abortion. I think those who get an abortion, most of the time it's because they need to. It's a harmful narrative on both sides of the conversation to say that women celebrate abortion. I think it creates a prejudice around women who do get abortions, and I don't think that it's good to minimize the decision of abortion from either side from the perspective. If you've been on Twitter or social media over the last couple of years, you'll know that the idea that nobody likes abortion is just false. There are numerous women in high social standing that not only seek to de-stigmatize abortion in general, but also seek to glorify it. Movements like hashtag shout your abortion are a direct example of this. Now this would obviously be no big deal if abortion were simply a medical procedure, but what we neglect to realize is that there is a little baby on the other side of this equation. I celebrate abortion and I think that campaigns like shout your abortion aren't about like getting in your face, but women who choose to have abortions suffer a lot of stigma and trauma from people who stand outside clinics and have grotesque images and literally, you know, damning your soul. Abortion as a medical procedure and resource is something that I do celebrate. It's a human right and I love abortion. Let's talk about this trauma she's speaking about when people see these grotesque images of abortion. We need to understand what is truly going on in abortion. A little life is being dismantled through horrific means and I don't want to go in explicit details in this video, but there are plenty of videos online on YouTube that you can find that will describe exactly what is happening in abortion and is horrifying. And perhaps your kids aren't ready to encounter the horrors of abortion. I get that. But for us grownups, we need to come to terms with what is truly going on and we can't claim trauma simply because we are seeing the consequences of our actions. Obviously, these images are triggering for people and I'm not in favor of using them willy nilly, but they do demonstrate what is happening in abortion. Now I'm not saying you should go yell and scream hateful things at people, not at all, obviously, but what I'm saying is we shouldn't be naive to the fact that some people truly do love abortion and we ought to be calling them to repentance and to Jesus, faith in him, the only one who can transform them from the inside out. My name is Rocky. Are you she her pronouns? I'm from Austin, Texas, and I am very pro abortion. I think that legislation like SB eight opens the door and the path towards handing over our bodily autonomy to the state. I don't understand how anyone can justify using their personal beliefs to take away the rights of others. Interesting. I could say the exact same thing. I don't understand why people can use their personal convenience as a justification for taking the lives of the unborn. I'm mad conflicted about this. I more so have an issue with when a man doesn't actually want that baby. She wants it and then expects this man to like be the ultimate provider and child care and all this extra stuff. Right? I appreciate the honesty. Men use abortion to avoid their responsibility for so many men out there. They see it as a tool to avoid the obligation of taking care of the life that they created. And I can't tell you how many stories I've heard of girls that have been forced into abortion by their boyfriends. We all would acknowledge that that is wrong, but some would say that it's wrong because the woman wasn't able to exercise her choice, but we lose sight of the baby and the womb who isn't able to exercise their choice in either situation. Women who are forced into abortions are victims alongside their baby. Men need to take responsibility for their actions. I used to be against abortion until an unwanted pregnancy happened to me. If you know for a fact that you're not even going to be the best parent for that child or you can't provide for that child, or maybe you're just fearful and don't want to pop a child out of you. Or just whatever reason that you have. I feel like you shouldn't have to go through with that. You still have that choice over your life, your body. What changed for him? The information around abortion didn't change. It's his circumstances that dictated his change of heart. This kind of circumstantial morality is deadly. Its primary purpose is self-preservation. It has no higher good. We become God. This is an essential point. We must look to God for our standard of morality. That's how we know abortion is wrong. Some might say, well, science proves that the baby in the womb is living. And so that would be murder. And so that would be wrong. But how do you know murder is wrong? Stick with me here. You see, when pro-lifers abandon the word of God, they lose their foundation for morality. We know murder is wrong because God has revealed it to us through his word and the law that he has written on our hearts. God has declared the worth of each human being and created us in his image. Your choice doesn't overrule the image of God in a person. A few months ago, I found out that I was pregnant. When I imagined myself finding out I was pregnant for the first time, I wanted it to be celebrated. And in that moment, I felt such severe anxiety. You know, we should never be heartless in approaching the issue of abortion. For many girls that get pregnant, especially at young ages, they experience tremendous amount of anxiety and heartache. Perhaps they weren't educated on this topic or simply just possessed the immaturity of a child. Regardless, we ought to have compassion for them. Some would argue that the outflowing of that compassion is to encourage women to do whatever they want with their quote unquote bodies, right? I don't believe this is a compassionate thing to do. Instead of blindly encouraging her towards a path that would be harmful for her and deadly for her child, I think it's much more loving to proclaim the truth to her in love, not judging her but proclaiming the beauty and dignity of the life that is within her, supporting her in that. That's where we ought to be as Christians. It's not about judging her but rather calling her to step into a new beginning where God's mercy is overflowing and His love is present. To encourage her to trust in Christ regardless of the difficulty because her child is worth it, that's where I stand. Well, I think it gets down to the heart of the issue here. You know, what is the unborn, which scientifically the embryo is from conception, a living whole organism with distinct DNA. As a Christian, I come from a worldview that says that every human being has dignity and worth. Not to disrespect any religion in general, but in my eyes, that's just pushing a belief onto someone rather than actually stating a real concrete fact. She's not happy with this lady talking about the image of God and she's supposedly pushing her beliefs rather than facts. From an atheistic worldview, how do you establish the dignity and worth of people? Answer, you can't. We are simply stardust bumping into stardust, protoplasmic goo that has evolved over millions and billions of years. In this worldview, we have no soul, we have no will, we are simply results of the chemical processes that are happening within us. There is no right or wrong. She talks about facts but in that worldview, how can you know anything is true? What is truth without God? Who's to say that one utterance produced by chemical reactions is any more valid than an utterance produced by an evolved fish? To establish objective truth, we need something outside of ourselves, something transcendent. And that is exactly what God has provided in his revelation. So scientifically, I'm pro-life because of science, not because of religion. But scientifically, I believe that life does start at conception. I don't think it makes sense to put life beginning at any other place during pregnancy. Doing so usually ends up saying that a already born person isn't alive, such as consciousness, heartbeat, etc. There are many pro-life people here, here from the science perspective, who are not led by religious motives at all or partially. You know, science is great, but science cannot provide moral objectives. Science can say that yes, that is a life in the womb, but it can't say that that life is sacred and meaningful. If we're going to be truly helpful in this conversation, we can't keep disregarding the need to have an objective moral foundation. I do believe that there might be cases where some women might be unaware of what's going on in an abortion. But by and large, I think especially with the advent of the internet and so much education out there, many of them do know that there's a life inside of them and they want to end that life, whether they call it murder or not. Hard disagree. Absolutely disagree. I've definitely met a lot of teenage girls who grow up in our generation who believe that abortion is normal, a fetus is a clump of cells, and there is no human life in the womb. They don't tell you when you go into an abortion consultation, this is a child and this is a human life and that's what's going to be happening. I have a hard time believing that if most women knew they were killing a child, they would do that. I don't think women in America are that malevolent. Do I think some women are deceived into believing that it is simply a clump of cells? Yes, absolutely. Do I also believe that there are women that are fully aware of what's going on but go through it with it anyway? Yes, absolutely. Simply educating people to understand what is going on in abortion is not the answer to the problem. We need a heart transformation. Our heart is not towards goodness without Christ. Without Christ, we are dead in our trespasses and sins. We are dead in our sins and our desires are not for goodness. That's why we need Jesus to transform our hearts. Education here is not the primary solution. Ultimately, we need heart change to actually desire what God desires. Yes, go ahead, educate people, tell people that it is a life in the womb but for them to actually recognize that that life should be protected, they need a heart transformation. At least my personal experience, the people who worked there were very understanding. They let me know there is a child that could come out of you in nine months. Are you sure you want to do this? I knew there was a child in my body. I knew I could have a child in nine months and I knew that that child can grow old and be their own person but I made that choice because I am allowed to have that choice and especially you. You are a white man and you are not allowed to say what I can do with my body nor any of these other women who are able to carry a child. Oh my goodness. Okay, I'll get to that last part in a second but at first I think it's interesting that this girl is kind of debunking the pro-life girl's narrative. She knew it was a child in her womb and yet went through it with it anyway. That's why I say educating people is not enough. We need to be compassionately and courageously calling people to repentance in faith. Honestly, I really don't have anything to say about that girl yelling at that white guy like this is just an outflowing of the secular worldview. If you're pregnant from your brother or your cousin or your father, especially if it wasn't consensual or even if it was, you should still have that option to abort the baby and especially if you've been raped, there are some people who have that thought like oh my god like what if I when I look at my child, I relive that trauma and not saying that's how all rape victims view it but it's just like some women have that fear. Why would the baby be responsible for the crime of the father? What did they do? Obviously, this kind of situation is tragic and it needs to be handled with an immense amount of compassion and care but we need to be consistent here. If it's truly a baby in the womb then its life is valuable regardless of how it got there. The idea that abortion is wrong in every instance except that of rape and incest is inconsistent. It's either a baby in the womb or it's not. That doesn't mean we're going to be heartless about it, you know, suck it up and have the baby like that's not how we approach it at all. We should do everything we can to assist the mother in this heartbreaking situation. America offers resources to help you raise a child. For those of you who don't know I live in Canada so it's kind of difficult for me to speak on issues of the United States just because I'm not super familiar with what all is going on down there. However, I do think it's important that we come to some conclusions regardless of whether there is help or support for mothers at all anywhere doesn't take away the moral obligation to preserve the life of the baby. So let's say okay there's no resources out there for anyone does that now justify killing the baby in the womb? No, okay that being said obviously we want there to be resources for these mothers of course anybody with a heart would say that. I do think there's an issue when we keep relying on the government to provide this support to mothers. I believe that God has set up three distinct sectors of human life that is the family, the church and the government. The church has a responsibility to care for the orphans, the widows, the downtrodden, the poor and I would add pregnant mothers in that list as well. It's so sad that church is seen as the last place that these women would want to go because maybe they fear being judged or condemned or maybe they even have experienced that themselves. I want to end this video by making it very practical. It can be easy to spend time online in chat rooms watching videos and getting really hyped up and passionate about the issue of abortion but not really having any key takeaways and how we can actually apply that to our everyday life. We get in the weeds of how things should go but life is messy. We should strive to be the person that someone in this situation would feel comfortable coming to. Doesn't mean compromising what we believe about abortion but rather it's an outflowing of the love and compassion that God has showed us. If you've had an abortion I don't hate you and Christians don't hate you. We want to welcome you into the forgiveness that Christ provides and the new creation that He wants you to become. Thank you so much for watching this video. I spent a lot of time meditating on what I wanted to say with this video with such a touchy topic and I wanted it to be as edifying as possible as I could possibly make it. I'm only able to do that because of the people on Patreon that help support what I'm doing here. This video is most likely going to get demonetized but I'm so thankful that I can continue to make videos that I'm passionate about regardless of how controversial. Thank you again for watching guys and I'll see you next time. God bless.