 Welch chi'n gael'r panelol fath o'r newid energis. If you're using social media, the hashtag is Wealth23. Without further ado, I'm going to begin. We're in a crisis, perhaps the worst crisis in a generation. Not since the 1970s have we experienced an energy emergency on this kind of scale. One and once again that is hitting the most vulnerable, the hardest. What we actually have is interwoven crises. Felly crisis, post-pandemic inflation, food insecurity, the climate crisis, and of course the illegal war in Ukraine. Tackling one requires addressing them all. Energy literally fuels the global economy. Providing it in a cost-effective, efficient, equitable and crucially sustainable manner is a fundamental necessity. Today's short-term decisions must accelerate us towards a secure energy future tomorrow. It requires, as you're here today, a massive, massive rise in renewable energy investment, and it has to reach the most vulnerable nations that need it most and simply cannot afford it. The good news, and there is good news, not too serious right now. Renewable energy investment did jump in the past year up 12% from a poultry 2% post the Paris agreements, and also major economies stepped up to provide tangible support. The less good news will call it bad news. Fossil fuel subsidies doubled in 2021 and have probably continued to rise. The industry itself says, look, even if we meet our Paris obligations, oil and gas will still provide for around half of our energy needs in 2040. If that's the case, then that reality requires thoughtful infrastructure investment today. What's more, the lack of diversification that exists in energy supply today exists in clean energy too. Great example, electric car batteries rose 10% in the past year. Cobalt, lithium, nickel, all those prices rose. Like OPEC Plus today, the nations that mind these inputs hold serious playing cards in the future. Energy supply chains have to be strong, diverse, sustainable, or we're simply in danger of swapping one challenge today for another, and that's going to require global cooperation. Finally, our role as consumers, the new energy economy requires significant change from us. The total energy bill paid in the past year $10 trillion globally for the first time ever. What's more, the top 10% of households consumed 20 times the energy of the lowest 10%. The richest nations of the world have proved that they can drop their demand when prices are high. That has to continue as prices come down because it's simply the right thing to do. Whether we like it or not, this is the reality of the new energy economy. Now it's down to us to master the policies that will sustain both the planet and its people. Now, enough of me. Let's talk about this with some of the world's most energetic masters even at this time in the morning. Mae introduced by panel Fati Birol, Executive Director of the IEA. Ysif Sikola, who's the Minister of Industry and Trade for the Trek Republic. Vicky Holler, President and CEO of Occidental. Patti Poppe, CEO of PG&E, and Martin Wolf, Associate Editor and Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times. Welcome everybody. Fati, I'm going to kick off with you. You've said it, clean energy, energy security, inextricably linked. There's opportunities. There's also huge risks. Just spell it out for us briefly. So many thanks, Julia, and also framing the discussion in the beginning. Tried. Well done. So, 24th of February was the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. And first of March, just a week later, we set the entire world. We publicly did. We are entering the first global energy crisis. Our world has never ever seen an energy crisis of this debt and of this complexity. Why? This is very simple, the reason. Because Russia is of 24th of February was the number one energy exporter of the world. We aren't talking about any country top energy exporter. Number one oil exporter of the world. Number one gas exporter of the world. Major play in the coal markets. And the Russia's actions and the measures that the countries took against Russia meant we are in the middle of the first global energy crisis with huge implications on oil and gas markets. We are seeing it in Europe in the rest of the world. However, this crisis, why we are going through this crisis, at the same time, it gave a big boost to clean energy development. Because in the past, clean energy was renewables, electric cars, efficiency heat pumps. They were growing, but the main driver was environmental reasons. And now the biggest growth, biggest driver of renewable energy growth today is energy security. Renewables are pushed very strongly because mainly for energy security reasons because it's homegrown. Renewables are the energy of peace. So, therefore, the long lasting solutions to our energy security problems go through clean energy. It is renewables, solar, wind, efficiency, electric cars, nuclear power, all of them. And when we look at the numbers, Julia, you know that my job is making my hands dirty with data every single day. And I can tell you that the growth we are seeing in the clean energy is very, very strong. Just to give you one example, renewable energy. 2022, last year, the growth is compared to one year ago, 25%. We have never seen that. Electric cars, 2019, only three cars out of 100 were sold was electric. And last year, it is 13%. Big growth. And if this trend continues, not even acceleration in 2030, which is tomorrow, every second car sold in Europe, US, and China, three largest car markets will be electric cars. So, let's keep this thing in mind. And maybe finally, let me mention that in addition to this immediate response to energy crisis, there is also more structural response coming from the countries such as from United States, Inflation Reduction Act. In my view, the most important climate action after Paris 2015 agreement. So, the IRA, Inflation Reduction Act from United States, fit for 55 from Europe, a Japan Green Transformation of Japan, the incentives, huge incentives in India for the batteries, or China pushing in their five year plan, big new clean energy technology manufacturing. This is a second dimension. In addition to the current immediate responses in terms of renewable efficiency, the heat pumps, electric cars, we are seeing a big push, mainly driven by industrial policies of the countries. I think they will emerge, and hopefully we will have a secure and clean energy future. Fati, I'm going to stop you, and you've stopped anyway, so that's good. You're half, glass half full, which is good. So, he's the optimist voice. Martin, I'm going to come to you now for the counterbalance, because we are seeing a rise in investment, which is great, but it's nowhere near enough. I think Fati would agree with that, at least today. We need to see a massive rise in investment. As he mentioned, if I look at China, if I look at India, if I look at the EU, and we'll hear from the example there, they have to invest more in wind and solar, because as far as I know, no one's worked out how to turn wind off, and no one's worked out how to turn the sun off, at least, which I think is an important point. So, it's a great story, but, of course, we're hopelessly behind. So, let me just set out how I see it. The good news is we all agree that massively expanding the supply of renewable energy is a climate and security priority, as the point has been made. And the second piece of good news is that these technologies are increasingly cost competitive. And, therefore, in economics jug and their dominant technologies, that is the most economically efficient thing we can do. And that means that over time, if a lot of problems are solved, market forces alone will deliver this. But those forces are, of course, because of the scale of what has to be done, which is not just money, but planning, solving systems, reliability problems, solving the developing country, finance problems, finance is a huge issue. The market forces just won't get there at the time needed. All the serious climate scientists tell us that we have to have very sizable reductions in world emissions by 2030 if we're going to have any chance of keeping close to 1.5 degrees. And that's just not on the horizon. It's not what's been happening. So let's not be complacent about it. We need a massive acceleration of the transformation from where we have been, and that will require dramatic changes in policy, serious incentives, serious de-risking of investment across the world, and not just in our own countries. We are not going to solve this problem. Europe generates 10% of emissions in the world. If you include the UK, it's just not relevant to the total picture. So what I want to say is we've got to a more comfortable position technologically and economically than most thought 20 years ago, but we haven't got the world into a more comfortable position and we should not pretend we are. We'll talk about getting over some of the inertia, because as you said, the pricing actually, in many cases, is right, but we're still not seeing the kind of investment and the direction of investment that we need. We'll come back to that. You've given me loads of launch points for every other panellist that I want to hear from, but Minister Seeker, I'm going to come to you, because I think Europe's been one of those hardest hit and had to make the quickest transitions and taken a significant amount of action in the last year. Talk to me about energy security from your perspective. Briefly, if you can, as a kicking off point. So first of all, thank you very much for the invitation to this very privileged panel. The second point that I completely agree with Fatih, that basically on 24th of February, the energy world has changed and this change is irrevocable. I give you the simple example of the Czech Republic and then I will come back to European issues. With the beginning of the war, the Czech Republic, as a land bloc country, the dependence on the Russian fossil fuel supplies was ultimate. 100% the nuclear fuel, the nuclear bars for the nuclear power plants, 99% gas and more than 50% crude oil. Without infrastructure, the infrastructure was built from the east to the west. So what you do if you want to impose sanctions on the aggressor. And there are similarities with the Yom Kippur War from the 70s, but the combination Europe has to solve and is solving successfully is much worse because it was something like the George Clooney's Perfect Storm. Not only the market manipulation which Russia started already before the war where basically gas from rented the gas storages across Europe and they were with the beginning of the heating season on the record low level. Empty, simply empty. Without the possibility to get this 155, we are talking about a replacement of 155 billion cubic meters of the natural gas from Russia. So one sort of the consumption of Europe. Then the extreme dry during the summer. So the hydropower plants in South Europe were not working. Also Scandinavia and then basically missing capacities in France. 30 reactors out of nuclear reactors out of 59 out of order because of the maintenance. So it was like more than 140 terawatt capacity which is the production of the Czech Republic and Slovakia together, the yearly production. So it was the perfect storm and in combination with the need to fulfil the storages before the winter, extreme pressure on the prices. 1,000 euro per megawatt hour on the end of the summer for electricity and 350 for gas. So nobody can afford this. There was like a big threat that the social agreement in European countries will be broken. That there will be a social unrest. That the industry will not be able basically to pay the electricity bills and the big threat of the industrialisation. What is positive is that Europe has again shown the unity under the extreme pressure and I had the privilege to chair the European Energy Council of the 27 member states and we were able to keep the unity and the solidarity and in extremely short time to introduce a package of the measures which basically helped us to calm down the prices to balance the demand and the supply. The situation now if you look on the gas prices, the spot was yesterday at 55. So 350 on the end of the summer of 55 yesterday. So this is like heaven and hell. The heaven is not as cheap as it was before but it is affordable. What is extremely important is that the part of the package is the idea of joint purchases in order to prevent for the future these price spikes. What is extremely important that everybody understood that the dependency on the Russian fossil fuels might be reduced by speeding up the renewable resources. So basically the time we missed in the past is not available anymore and we have to act now and we have to act fast. So basically that the euro was able to agree to speed up the permitting for the renewable resources and to create funds for this higher speed in basically renewables. Of course what is extremely difficult by taking these extraordinary crisis measures not to forget the long-term narrative. Right. I want to hear from somebody else. We'll come back to it because we're going to more depth. But this is a yes or no question. Can the momentum that you've achieved over the last 12 months be sustained? Because it has to be. Can it be? Yes. Yes. Good answer. We'll come back to that. Now have a choice. Patty you also understand crisis in California. The provision of trying to provide 60 million people with stable. We touched on that there. Cost effective with prices soaring. And of course you're fighting the long-term challenges of security against wildfires. The flooding that's going on at this moment. Talk to me about how you view energy security and what you think. Whether it's for your company or more broadly needs to happen and change and fast. Well first thank you for having me. I'm proud to represent the people of California and the people of PG&E. You know we are in a different kind of war in California and that is the front line of the war on climate. We're experiencing it. We've just had historic flooding. We've had historic wildfires. We've had historic mouse snowfall and earthquake just in the last month. All of those things in the last six months. So we're experiencing it. And we have some of the most ambitious climate objectives because of that. And the people of California are very resolved. And I'll remind people that the state of California if it were a country is either the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world. And yet we have very ambitious climate objectives. And I am extremely optimistic about the opportunity to lead this climate transition in a systems mindset way. So as a system when we optimize that system as we transition we can do this for the lowest societal cost. And I see a very clear and specific pathway to the lowest societal cost of the transition by optimizing distributed resources along with central station traditional sources of supply but optimized in a very specific way. So let me just tell in September we had a peak summer heat event. California had its peak demand for electricity on September 6. And so we are boots on the ground. I was standing watching the load curve creep up and creep up. We saw the battery storage kick in right when it was supposed to. That's new additions to California's energy supply. It worked just like it was supposed to. But as we got very close to having to shut down our transmission systems and prevent energy delivery to preserve the grid the state took a very aggressive action to send out an emergency text message to all of the California cell phones. And instantaneously 2,500 megawatts came off the system. We watched the load curve drop with the straight line which told me and reaffirmed a hypothesis that I have that demand management with modern technology can be automated. We shouldn't have to send a text message. It worked. But you basically said guys switch off your air con. Yeah. It was an emergency message that said yes please reduce your usage. But Californians responded because they're good citizens. But what it says is that could be automated with smart devices Wi-Fi communicating devices and electric vehicles as a power resource bidirectional power resource back to the grid would be even an additional asset that was what I would refer to as anyways economics. People have already purchased the electric vehicle. It's an investment anyways. Get its full value by putting its power back to the grid. And all of that can be automated. Technology can enable that. This is a technology that has never been available in all of our years of delivering energy and electricity in particular to the people of the world. We can now manage demand and have the right use at the right time not just conserve not just use less but instead smooth out the demand curve and have distributed variable resources that can deliver. It will happen. And I'm very optimistic about that. Yeah. And you also have an electric vehicle advantage as well. And I know you're pioneering feeding energy back into the grid at these moments of peak demand will come back to that as well. And Mr. Sikler I know he's nodding because he wants to talk about how Europe managed to bring their demand down as well. I have to hear from Vicky first. It was 15 to 20 percent though wasn't it. I can see you smiling. Come in here please because I think the key word for Martin was emissions and I think the oil and gas sector has a terrible reputation. I think you would admit that there are pieces of this sector that are recognizing that an existential crisis for the planet is also an existential crisis for them and that's creating inertia. But you have a different way of looking at this. It's sort of a reality check I think for all of us. Please explain. Yeah I think that it's what's important to understand is that the enemy is our emissions. It's not the energy source and what we really need is a more thoughtful transition and the transition has to be one that's built around ensuring that as we transition that we don't leave developing countries behind and emerging countries. We have to understand that oil is the highest intensity energy at the lowest cost. What we have to do now is we have to address the emissions and we have been making important strides toward lowering our methane emissions across the industry and it's been a concerted effort by a lot of companies and countries to make that happen. And I agree with Fati and Martin that and Patty that renewables are critically important and the reality is that's a part of our transition too. We need energy to provide our equipment to run and we're starting to move to using renewable energy. Battery advancement is important to make that sustainable and to make that a consistent provision of energy but that's going to happen and we're actually as I will say just occidental as an example. We know that we not only need to lower emissions from our oil and gas operations. We need to lower the emissions from a lot of industries. The oil and gas industry is always the industry that's attacked but the reality is that a lot of the products you use and you don't like to hear this but a lot of the products you use comes from oil and gas. And so simply building wind and solar is not nearly all of the answer to the question and to the challenge. So we believe that what we're doing will help transition our industry and that is to get very aggressive with carbon capture not just at point source emissions but you're seeing what's happening around the world with respect to climate change where we are today. So if we cannot reduce the CO2 that's already in the atmosphere we have a real problem. So direct air capture no matter what model you look at has to be a part of the solution and we're we just started construction last quarter of what will be the largest direct air capture facility in the world. It'll extract 500,000 tons of CO2 per year from the atmosphere. The next largest is extracting only 4,000 tons. So this has to happen and it has to happen in a big way along with point source capture and to me if we can all work together to make that happen that's the best way to partner them with solar wind and build a building electric vehicles. So that is going to be the best way to transition. Very quickly are you in favour of ending subsidies to the oil and gas sector because it goes back to the point that I think Martin was making about that the price signals being off at certain times. You know there's no doubt that there's been hardly any game changing and transformational technology that's ever been developed in the world that did not at some point have some sort of subsidy. Like wind and solar took about 10 years to reduce the cost of wind and solar by 80%. It's collapsed. And wind and solar had subsidies. Now we with the inflation reduction act that was just passed and thanks to Senator Manchin wherever he is. He's here at the conference somewhere. Thank you when you see him. But the IRA is an important bill for us in that it does provide subsidies not just for carbon capture but for electric vehicles for lithium for many other things that will help the climate transition. As Fatty said it's and others have said in the meeting I just was in it's one of the most transformational passages of a bill ever in the world. And it's going to I think jump start a lot of things. And for us the thing that it does is it does enable us to advance the technology faster. Our goal is to build was to build 100 of these direct air capture facilities so that we could be extract 100 million tons of CO2 from the atmosphere between now and 2035 with the passage of that bill that's going to make it possible for us to build up to 135 of these. So it is important and subsidies are very important for the development of new technologies. And what I'm really excited about I know there's a lot of thankfully a lot of enthusiasm and optimism on this panel already. And what I'm really excited about is we're we have an advantage over wind and solar in that we're starting to develop a brand new technology that's critically important for the world. But we're going to be able to build a digital twin as we're building the facility so that we can with that digital twin advance the development and the optimization of that plant a lot faster than wind and solar was able to do. I think that's the key. We have to accelerate everything whether it's the investment whether it's the technology we have to take risks. I know it's tough during a cost of living crisis where you're having to make short term and longer term decisions. But I think that points to it. Martin come in here because there's two things I want to talk about. I want to talk about the best ways to do risk finance whether that's to countries that need it most that can't afford adaption finance never mind mitigation finance. But I think the other thing we've touched on it here with the subsidies in the United States and that is creating good competition not creating protectionism. And I mentioned the dangers of an OPEC plus kind of scenario with some of the minerals like and metals like lithium like cobalt like nickel. How concerned are you one about insecure new supply chains but also pushing it so far with subsidies that perhaps we create unhealthy competition and maybe that's the first class problem. Martin had we overcome these things or get the balance right. And we haven't even mentioned China yet. Well my general view in having watched governments for about half a century and watch climate policy for about 25 years is that it's always going to be a mess. I don't look for optimality or anything vaguely like it. It's going to be wasteful politicized but it has to move in the right direction. When I think look at the mess of the nature of our subsidies what we subsidize I'm very happy with the subsidize subsidies in most of the subsidies in the IRA. God knows why it's called an inflation reduction act. But never mind. But that's the point I'm making. It's going to be it's going to be political. It's going to be political. But so what one has to do in practice is find a way to marry political realities with moving us very very rapidly in the right direction. And I would say so far we haven't done a great job of that. But we haven't done an unbelievably bad one either. So the answer to that I think is countries which have a lot of fiscal room like the U.S. and Europe just need to be prepared to borrow and spend a lot. And I'm less worried about fiscal deficits than some. So that's what they're going to have to do the. But there will be a lot of economic interests pushing them in the right direction because there's a lot of money to be made. So that that has made it more even than it was 20 years ago. But it was basically if I may say say the fossil fuels industry pushing against it. Now we actually have a renewable energy industry with everything around it and everybody can see there's money. So this is good. And that will push people for governments further to support them. And that I think part of what happened with the eye the IRA and also with next gen EU. But the big hole to me the biggest hole is the risk profile in developing in emerging countries. And there's some very good reports recently out on this. The high level group with Nick Stern and Vera Songway for example. So these there are two elements. The first one the problem is that nobody wants to lend money to developing in emerging countries with a very few exceptions because they think they might not on cheap terms because they think they might not get their money back. So they raise interest rates to a level at which they guarantee not to get their money back. Now this is a real trap. And the only way round that is to do risk it by the developed countries using the international financial institutions as risk guarantors. And for that to happen the major ify's in here. It's the World Bank more than the IRA have to be prepared to lose quite a lot of money. And that then gets to really big political issues who bears ultimately the risks in this system which has been operated for 60 70 years on the assumption that essentially they never lose money. So this is a there is a risk. There are risks here that have to be born by someone. My view is basically is the rich country governments because there aren't any other risk bearers. There are lots of other things you can do equity financing to something. But on the scale that is needed and the speed that is needed we really have to think about how risk is reallocated and born in the system if you want this to be a global activity and remember emerging and developing countries are where all the growth in energy consumption and emissions are going to come from. Yeah. The World Bank in your case in particular needs to take that first loss piece. They have to be willing to bear the great proportion of risk. But to do that they have to manage the scale of the losses from their point of view because they don't want to go back to their shoulders and asking for more capital. But somebody has to take that bite and say well actually this is so important. We're going to have to risk losing money. Yeah. The mindset has to change. That has to be clear to the shareholders in the beginning. We're going to throw money at this and we're going to throw money away. Good luck with that. Well that's where you get to the point where what is politically feasible may not actually match with what is globally essential. And when you're in that situation well political feasibility has to change. But I'm going to come to you on this because I think it's vital to get your insights on this too. But I feel like I've sort of teased your responses to a number of these things now. What do you make of this. And how would we how do we do. How do we do this. How do we facilitate this. I'm going back to the savings. 40 percent of the energy consumption is related to buildings and the biggest part of it is a heating. And what was extremely important that the euro was able already during the summer think about the next heating season. And the first extraordinary meeting and I became known that I convened the historical highest number of extraordinary energy councils in the history of European Union in order simply to align. I said we will sit as long. We will finish basically what we have to finish. And the first mission in impossible was the alignment on gas savings already during the summer. Save gas for a safe winter was the slogan. And what was extremely important to convince the population that they are the part of the game. And what is fantastic for example in my country that we were able with simple measures to save 15 percent of the gas consumption only during few months by simply convincing the people they have to heat less they have to sink if they increase basically the room temperature of if they wear a hoodie. And I know that we cannot repeat it for a second time. But you know why not. This is technically not possible. But the demand response. The limitation of this like hot fixes is simply given. You cannot afford the people to have like less than 18 degrees. You know in the room. So so they are like a technical limitations. So we now have to come with more advanced approach. But what is important is that basically Europe is aware and Europe is working in this direction. When it comes to subsidies as a former banker and also partially macroeconomist I say that you know we should be careful because subsidy is something like a doping in the sport. If you then have to live without a subsidies it is difficult to turn back to to a normal life. And sometimes we see that the people the entrepreneurs are not thinking what is good for the people but where I can get subsidies. So I will invest there where I will get a bigger subsidies and I understand the importance of the inflation reduction act from the U.S. perspective. On the other side in Europe it is seen much more controversial because it is saying to the European investors go back go to U.S. because this is this is more profitable for you because they will subsidize and they will give you much cheaper energy than you can get in Europe. And when we start a rally of subsidies this is extremely dangerous because you are speaking about fiscal room and I don't know that you know for example FET would agree that the fiscal room in U.S. is as big as some of the people believe and Europe it is not the one animal. We have a situation countries with 25% inflation countries with 7% inflation with completely different levels of indebtedness to a GDP so with a completely different fiscal room within a Europe. So we have to be smart and we should not allow that the western world will now also compete where basically the necessary investments will go to. This is capitalism isn't it? I think this is capitalism. Healthy competition. They are trying to boost their industry. Europe has to in some way step up to the plate too. I agree that we don't want siloed investment in the duplication of investment. Subsidies and capitalism. I feel like we have to think outside the box where renewable energy is concerned but I take your point. Vicky come in here. I don't know what you want to say. I just want to say that subsidies shouldn't last forever but subsidies really are needed to develop new technologies. What we are seeing is we are seeing a growing voluntary compliance market that is willing to pay the price to achieve net neutrality from the standpoint of their carbon footprint. More than 2,000 corporations around the world have committed to that. So we are seeing that subsidies will not be there forever. We don't expect it. We expect to advance our technology so that it will stand alone, support itself and be a growing business force. We do expect to become a carbon management company over time so it is going to be a profitable business. I will say though with respect to Europe. I hate to say it but I have to say it. Imposing windfall profits tax on the oil companies that are doing their best to grow wind and solar in Europe was not the smartest move in my view. Vicky come in here. I mean it could have been tax free if it would go into renewables. Let me just put this investment thing making simple for all of us to put it in the frame. Now if, big if, if we all want to reach a 1.5 degree target to keep our climate safe but the scientists tell us to do our climate target. Today the world invests one dollar for fossil fuels and one and a half dollars for clean energy. So the ratio is one dollar for fossil fuels, one and a half dollar for clean energy. If we want to reach our target, this ratio of one to 1.5 should be one to nine. So a big increase in clean energy investment and which makes it even more difficult, the growth of the clean energy investment need to come from the developing countries where cost of capital for clean energy technologies is about six, seven times higher than US or Europe and elsewhere. I think this is the nerve center of all the problem. How, because I believe money and the clean energy projects in Europe and in US IRA, FIFT 4.55 at the end they will meet. But what are we going to do in the emerging countries? And I believe advanced economists have two reasons to support the clean energy financing in developing countries. Number one, one ton of CO2 going to atmosphere from Detroit or from Jakarta or from New York or from Marseil has the same effect on everybody. You can do whatever you want at home. It doesn't change. If the emissions come from elsewhere, you can bring the UK emissions, Europe emissions to zero. You will not be able to protect yourself from climate change impacts if Indonesia and the other countries going on. So first, on a logical reason. And second, the other driver why they should invest help the clean energy transition in developing countries is a moral reason. The climate change is an issue of concentration of carbon in the atmosphere and about 80% of the carbon in the atmosphere put there by the advanced economists since 100 years. So they have a moral reason to clean up as well. For two reasons I believe would it be work bank reform, the IFIs and so on, they have to advance this. One thing I have to congratulate Joseph here. He did an excellent job for Europe if we are still here. Enjoy the warm, at least here, the temperature and the lesser on. Well done, Joseph. The temperature, the winter, warm winter helped you a bit. We should be honest. But well done, I just want to congratulate you. But you still did a good job. Exactly. Martin, come in here and Patty. No, Patty, come in. Okay, thank you. Martin, I'm coming to you. I want to make a point about Martin what you said about it won't be optimized. I appreciate that. But I also think that there's a tradition and the historical investment in technology and even in California, the early investment in wind resources when they weren't popular and weren't economically viable have then made it possible for wind to be developed around the world as well. And so over time, I agree wholeheartedly that there's the wealthier nations can start the engines of progress and of innovation. And Vicki, I think what you said, I'm so excited about your work and what you're doing with carbon capture. That will create the possibility for developing nations to access that technology in time. And as you said, where we fix it, it has a positive impact in whatever sequence we do it. So let's go ahead and let the innovation occur. And I just think there's such an opportunity to adapt, enable and accelerate. So we're adapting with hardening our infrastructure, whether we're undergrounding our power lines or building a more resilient distributed energy system that is more secure for people to have power when and where they want it. But we're also enabling in the IRA and the earlier legislation that was passed, it's enabled the extension of nuclear power plants. I have a 2200 megawatt nuclear power plant that was scheduled to close, but because of that legislation and the support from the U.S. government and the state of California, we're extending the life of that nuclear power plant. That's an enabling investment on the part of the federal government in the United States that has benefits globally. But then finally to accelerate the advancement of electric transportation as a key resource back to the grid, as well as distributed microgrids. And it's an all of the above, all of us have to do all of it as fast as we can. And I think some of these economic subsidies are absolutely enabling that to happen in the larger wealthier nations so that the developing nations will then be able to access that technology affordably. Yes, it's not just about providing financing, it's also about the provision of technology as well and subsidising it and pushing it forward. I'm a naughty girl because I was supposed to open it up to Q&A and we've got one minute left. Martin, the floor is yours. You were waving at me to say something. So make it really good, my friend. So no pressure. I think the situation is incredibly clear in the sense that we sort of know where we've got to go and we have to accelerate the speed at which we're going there multiple times. Nine times at least. This will require a staggering volume of resources, a lot of very, very clever policy, and it has to be seen as a global public action programme. The first genuine league, as it were, global effort by humanity to manage the world on a war basis. That's where we are. And in this situation, to me, the most important thing is that everybody who's involved, politicians, businesses, have the sense of urgency because so much of this is talking about things as if we had years or decades to sort of all these out. We don't. So the key is to get the urgency and in my view is of course they're going to spend money. A lot of it is going to be wasteful. A lot of the policies that we'll get through are intensely irritating, but as long as they're pushing really, really rapidly in the main right directions, we'll get there with a lot of luck. And the key things are to look at what isn't happening. What isn't happening is we're not investing nearly enough. Right. And two, we're not investing nearly enough above all in the places where we know that's not happening because they don't have the money. Right. And it's no good for us to say we don't have any money because we are the only people who do have any in this situation and we've got to do something. That's how it is. Yeah, and citizens. Citizens have to take responsibility. And also we have to buy some room for our politicians to make tough choices for us in the short term that benefit us in the longer term. So I think we all have to stand up, step up and protect our planet and our people. In fact, if you wanted to talk about China, can you do it in... No, I'm being given the timeout. I'm done. Otherwise I'm going to be fired and I've got to do another panel. Don't forget China. Exactly. We have to do it together. We're one planet. But we have to understand that China is the number one driver of clean energy today. Yeah. And we've got to cooperate with them, obviously. Martin, we want to enter an optimistic note. To your panel, guys. Thank you.