 guests and all those in attendance. Greetings, Andrea. It's good to see you. Welcome to day two of a robustly and thought provoking virtual symposium. I just want to extend our gratitude to Professor Adam Abib yesterday who actually kickstarted the program. And I got excited when I, I had about his vision on internationalization. And I just, I just thought to myself, we were also visionary from the school of social sciences when we strategically chose a source as our strategic partner for internationalization. I would like to extend our gratitude to the, to the source convening team. Dr. Angelica Besheara, Dr. Kai Estin, Dr. Wayne Dorey, and all the technical team. Thank you so much for pulling in your resources, both soft and hard skills. And also, at the fact that you are almost single-handedly from a technological perspective, you pulled this through for us. We are grateful. My sincere gratitude goes to my colleague and the academic leader for, for research in the school of social sciences, and also the champion for internationalization, Professor Mahesh Rinaid, who tirelessly has been committed to our internationalization vision. I remember when I stepped into the dinnering of social sciences in 2019, and I started how looking at the vision, our vision for internationalization, and we decided through her search and through her search and we chose source. We had planned to travel together. We actually booked to travel together in October, but unfortunately I was unwell and so she traveled and connected and initiated this collaboration and I'm so grateful to her. Colleagues, to be honest, towards the end of 2020, she had a personal family loss and I panicked a bit because I was not sure she was going to be able to pull herself back into academic work, so I'm so grateful and thankful to her. I also want to record our thanks to our college, the support that we've received from the College of Humanities, and to the leadership of our Deputy Vice Chancellor, Professor Gangram Keeze, who welcomed you all yesterday. And also, we are grateful for the support that we're receiving from the office of our own Vice Chancellor, Professor Nana Poco. Colleagues, the devastation of COVID-19 pandemic cannot be understated. In the same breath, many of the people gathered here today may not have been able to travel to London or Dev and had this not been, had this been a traditional symposia. Academics, I can tell you, they love to travel because it had forced us the opportunity to network, learn of new spaces, and be informed of other people's lived experiences. I hope we'll be able to do this even on this restricted virtual platform in order for us to continue our engagement beyond these two days. When we set out to establish this relationship between SWAS and the School of Children Sciences at UKZM, who are driven by ambitions that form the centerpiece of our internationalization strategy. The aim is not to count an unending tally of partnerships and collaborations around the world. Our goal is to have targeted, meaningful and enriching engagements across the globe with schools and all departments that have shared values, intellectual rigor and scholarly commitment to what we do. The world, as you know, has been democratizing at rapid rates and over the past 60 years or so with not worthy possible regression over the last decade. This has necessitated demands for freedom. These are closely linked to questions of being and becoming, identity and authenticity, justice and humanity, just to name a few. This, our inaugural symposium, and we already sized with these critical existential questions, these phenomenological experiences from our initiation to life. And we carry them across our professional, familiar, social, political and other spaces of our lives. The SWAS and UKZM partnership straddles the delicate balance between what we have come to know as a global south and a global north. There can be no contested spaces than this. We have questions are posed on the production of knowledge, contested meanings of epistemology, ontology and existence, giving the varied lenses of observation that often lead to contested narratives. This symposium will not make us adopt a one size fit all approach to scholarship and knowledge production. It must help us perceive the world differently, approach our work with greater nuance, as we appreciate lessons learned from engaging with knowledge views that may not have been as robust and frank without this collaborative effort between SWAS and UKZM. As a school of social sciences at the University of KwaZulu Natal, we pursue our collaborations informed by our context, locality and extensive work that transcends the limitations of our borders. The three major themes drive our work, migration and African archives, gender and decoloniality and Africanization and curricula. For this reason, senior academics and emerging scholars have been blended into this symposium from our side, taking advantage of the present while building for the future. Decolonization futures hidden in the aspirations of contemporary generation when reflecting on the future of academia. We must not embrace this agitation habitually to simply hijack the discourse because that will breed for the cynicism on the inability of our institutions to transform to a space that embraces the collective experience of those who walk through our various campus gates and doors. For this MOU, we focus on mobility for our school of social sciences, postdoctoral fellows and staff exchanges, meant to enhance the curriculum and teaching of African studies at SWAS through sustained contact with scholars and narratives of the African continent. SWAS has a rich history dating back to 1916 when it was founded, six years after the Natal University College was founded in 1910 on our Peter Maris Bay campus. By age, we are contemporaries and by vision, we are aligned acuity. We may not always have been the case. And most of you will know, as you can see in our history is deep in the logics of context and colonialism, with the statue of King George J. Finn, standing still just before our Howard College building named after the son of Tibi Davis. Our histories are marked by those who came before us. We take great comfort in the fact that the renowned advocate for children, women and human rights, Mrs. Gersham Asher, the wife of our former late President Nancy Mandela, is a president of SWAS. It gives us both intuitive and perceptive comfort. There is no doubt in my mind that we will mutually benefit from this collaborative arrangement. So, according to the 2020 QS World University ranking has performed remarkably in some areas as top ranking subjects include development studies at equal six position up from 8 in 2019, anthropology at equal 13 from 16 in 2019, and politics at 18 from up from 23 in 2019. Notwithstanding the rich leadership lead down by the likes of Valerie Amos and African curriculum at SWAS, we believe that our MOU is not simply North-South. UKZN and the School of Social Sciences as an institution of the South have much to offer SWAS in further offering staff and intellectual resources to deepen their African curriculum and programs. SWAS has an international student body and has resources to send students to UKZN on short term fieldwork, internship and immersion in African side beyond abstract engagement. We don't see our MOU with SWAS as mutually beneficial with social sciences able to offer SWAS intellectual capture as we as well as collaborative group with SWAS. So colleagues and guests, with these few words, I hope that our second day of this virtual symposium will lead to much knowledge exchange, accompanied by important connections that will enable us to collaborate even much more in the future. You are all welcome and thank you. I will just hand over to my colleague Andrea. Thank you so much. Welcome Andrea. Thank you so much Vivienne and thank you so much for such an inspiring opening and also for all saying all the thank yous. So I'd also like to echo those thanks. And I'd also like to echo just the wonderful feeling it is to be able to build on this partnership that's newly been established between two institutions as you say, and born around the same time. There's so much in common and so many people in common who've traveled between these institutions over this time and colleagues who have sitting in this in this zoom room with long and deep connections with South Africa. And I'm really delighted to be able to be here to open day two and to be able to be here as much as possible during the day on a set of issues that are so important for us to talk about in these moments. And it's good to give pause also to think about what is meant for us so as to decolonize ourselves given our history. So being set up in 1916 to serve the Empire. We have a particular responsibility as an institution to decolonize everything that we do to decolonize our teaching to decolonize our practices or pedagogy, and also to decolonize our research. You know, something that's been really powerful at SOAS in recent years since we adopted our decolonizing vision in 2017 and spearheaded discussions in the UK on decolonizing the curriculum which came from student mobilization and student mobilization and student engagement at SOAS in shaping some of the issues that we've dealt with has been really, really key. I come myself from a background of having been an undergraduate student of African Studies in SOAS in the late 1980s and early 90s, and part of those kind of student protests and student kind of engagement shaking things up and bringing new ideas. So it's something that's been very valuable to us and so those students in who came to remind us of the need for us to really think very seriously about how we taught Africa and how we frame African Studies led to us adopting a decolonizing vision in 2017. And then last December we adopted a decolonizing research vision, which sets a very assertive path towards really dealing differently with partnerships of the global south. Along with Professor Habib, I'm very committed as the Pro Director for Research and Enterprise to building a very different kind of partnership than the kinds of partnerships we've seen between northern institutions and southern institutions in the past, where southern institutions haven't had a seat at the table when the budgets are defined, when the shapes of the researcher are defined, when the theoretical work is produced. In the partnership with Quasili Natal and the work that we'll build around that, we have a very, very strong commitment to co-equal partnership, to learning from you and learning how to be able to do partnership better, but also working really as mutual partners, rather than I think thinking in the old style of partnerships through the UK and institutions in the global south in that frame of internationalization, which hasn't been so much a co-equal partnership. And I speak more broadly for SOAS this desire to do this with other partners as well, and to build a new way of working with the global south, led by Adam's very inspiring vision. And something else to say about SOAS I think is that the long and deep tradition of African studies at SOAS is something that many people from South Africa, and I'm sure from Quasili Natal have also been part of our debates at SOAS and have come to SOAS as visiting fellows. And so that long period of exchange is also the really basis for building a strong institutional strategic partnership, because it counts on people getting to know each other. And I think as you said Viviane, you know, we love to travel and to network and to get to know people and in these zoom times we can reach a bigger audience and people can have a virtual experience of getting to know each other. But once we're able to physically meet each other again, we can have some of those exchanges as well. And so part of building that partnership is a really broad ranging set of activities that we can develop together. And I'd love to see us building a research infused teaching co-program together where we're able to deliver material together in our different classrooms and the students to think together about some of the issues with that kind of critical disruptive thinking that our students can bring that keep us on our toes. I like to see our scholars developing collaborative programs where they co-research and plan together and work that they can they can do together and I think there's so much to build on there's so many commonalities between our institutions and the questions that we're asking the critical questions about epistemology about space about power. And I can see, you know, all kinds of other possibilities for early career scholars and PhD students as splits like PhD scholarships opportunities for young scholars to move and to work together and to develop and to be mentored across our institutions by scholars from each other's institutions so they're all kinds of research related dimensions to that partnership, which I can see being very exciting for us to be able to develop. And so with that, you know, with those words, I think it's, it's a good moment to sort of open up now for the sessions and to pass over to, I think, to Angelica. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much, Andrew. Thank you very much Vivian. I now pass it on to Vivian, who is the chair in the keynote with Professors Francis Nyamjo. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Andrew. Thank you, Angelica. And welcome once more guests, colleagues to our keynote conversation with Professor Nyamjo Francis. In 1994, when I registered as an undergraduate student in the Department of Anthropology and Sociology at the University of, University of Boya Cameron, I remember Vivian, the first face I met was Professor Nyamjo Francis. And he doesn't seem to have changed that much. He's decided to stay young and we've caught up with him. And I'm grateful to be sharing this platform. For me, I've grown to know him as a mentor and an academic father. I've learned so much. I drink from his world a lot. Almost every publication, major publication, major, major presentation he makes, he will slip it through my email and calls me, colleague, I'm sharing this with you, my colleague. And a part of me would say now, I would say, no, this is your father. It's not a colleague, it's your mentor. And he has allowed me to grow in that way with my own, not forcing me to reason like him because I'm a feminist, but always teasing me around my thinking. So I just, I'll take this opportunity just to tell you a bit about him before we get into the conversation, just to say that he's a professor of social anthropology at the University of Cape Town in South Africa since August 2009. He's a recipient of the ASFAC 2018 FEDGE and an Oliver Prize for the Best Monograph for his book Roads Must Fall, Nibbling at Resilient Colonialism in South Africa. He is a B1 rated professor and researcher by the South African National Research Foundation NRW. Also a fellow of the Cameroon Academy of Science since August 2011. He's also a fellow of the African Academy of Science since December 2014. He's also a fellow of the Academy of Science of South Africa since 2016. He served as head of publications for the Council for the Development of Social Science Research in Africa, Codestra from July 2003 to July 2009. He's research and interest centers around issues of citizenship, cultural and political identity making, social shaping of information and communication technologies. And honestly, participants and someone of Professor Niam Diop Francis Calibur does not really need an introduction in the academy. I would like to humbly invite you to this conversation, Professor Niam Diop Francis. I'm delighted to be the one teasing you and provoking you so that we can drink and we can learn as much and you can share with us your ideas. We've read from your books, we've read from your articles, but at this point I would really like to us to engage in a way that we give the audience enough time to pose your questions and I would rather they speak directly with you than us following the traditional pattern of listening and listening. This has helped quite a lot, but this is an opportunity for the audience. Those who have not had the opportunity in the past to speak and ask you direct question to do so. So I'll kick start this conversation, Professor Niam Diop, by asking you what in your opinion is the role of mobility in knowledge production. Thanks very much Vivian. It's always a pleasure to converse with you formally and informally and thanks to all present. This initiative is clearly a model for the future. Before COVID has given us a lot of nightmares, it has also introduced some creativity in how we do our conversations on knowledge and knowledge production. But I would like just to emphasize that first, the idea of producing knowledge and new knowledge at that presupposes a certain idea or recognition that what we know and what we have at our disposal currently is incomplete. So underpinning our quests for production of knowledge is the idea of incompleteness and the need to enhance ourselves through reaching out, exploring new avenues and so on. So this incompleteness pushes us to be mobile and mobile in terms of our curiosities, in terms of our quests, mobile also in terms of physical mobility, the need to reach out and compress time and space through our nimble footedness. The need to shape our speaking at a level of individual researchers, our physical being to embody, to respond to the world out there that we have created and that we relate to. In a way that we embody it and we're able to mobilize our being to react when such knowledge or such embodiment is called into play. So you see that mobility is central because of our recognition and the provision for the fact of incompleteness, either as individual beings, as knowledge producing institutions, as cultural communities, as whatever. So mobility therefore is key and without it we would not be alive, literally either as beings or as cultural systems or as knowledge production traditions. The need to be mobile is a way of discovering technology or for discovering ourselves and taking ourselves out to encounter others, whether this is nature, fellow humans and so on. And finally, we do need to be mobile in ways that suit the challenges of the moment, various technologies of self extension. And such technologies might just be ideas that we ventilate through books, through the knowledge we produce. It might be various gadgets, your smartphone, the fact of this zoom that makes it possible for us to be mobile even as we are firmly grounded. I kept on you in Durban and others in London and many other parts of the world. So mobility is central to knowledge production and the ideas that we produce are nimble footed. They move around even when we seek to confine them. So once we have had it out there, there's no way of keeping them back. And just to end, in the grass fields of Cameroon where I come from, I know you come from the Manu area, but I come from the grass field and I'm sure you have similar problems where you are based. There's a sense in that one person's child is only in the womb, which basically encapsulates the idea of mobility right from the time that even before we are born, of course. And so we need to see mobility in its complexities, not just the social interactions, but how we get domesticated into the context into which we are born and so on. And there's a colleague of us here who does wonderful work on ideas of mobility right from the early childhood, and that is Fiona Ross and the program is called The First Thousand Days. So you can see our investment in mobility as central to being and becoming and to knowledge production. Thank you. Thank you so much, Professor Nyamja. I'm glad that you did state that as people move around, or as we both physically and virtually, knowledge is being produced. For us at this moment, one of the major analysis, one of the reasons why we are gathered through this virtual symposium is to engage in the project we have termed decolonization. So I'd like you to tell us what your understanding of decolonization is. What's your position? Yes, I think if you go back to what I said about incompleteness that pushes us to be mobile. And mobility leads to various encounters with others, mobile orders, incomplete mobile orders. Then in the meeting of these mobilities, various incompleteness is all circulating around the world, circulating in various ways, guises and disguises. We reach to, if we open up to a certain sense of compositeness of our being, because when you are mobile and you encounter mobile orders, it wraps up in one way or another. And then this, and if it wraps up, then you take what has wrapped of you as a trophy of sorts back home, and therefore there's a certain sense of debt and indebtedness to those you have encountered in your mobility. And to the incomplete orders that you have encountered in your mobility. And that debt and indebtedness creates all sorts of possibilities. Some recognize the debt, some don't, and it has implications. So what I would say therefore about decolonization is about drawing attention to a particular idea of mobility encounters, not as a zero sum game of winner takes all, but as a much more accommodating convivial engagement with one another, because nobody has the monopoly of incompleteness, and because ultimately the quest for completeness is a very, the quest for violence inflicts a lot of violence on those you encounter is a very violent project. So my dear of decolonization would therefore be the process of recognizing and providing for incompleteness through our mobility encounters with others, the process of celebrating our compositeness of being. And it should be a process at the center of which is recognizing and providing for debt and indebtedness. And basically, that sort of decolonization leads to recognizing to a convivial disposition arrangement in the academy, and in the area of knowledge production. And such conviviality is what I would convivial scholarship. So decolonization in short, as incomplete beings and incomplete institutions and incomplete civilizations and societies interacting with one another is providing for convivial scholarship. Thank you. Thank you so much. As I listen to you, explaining the meaning of mobility and knowledge production and decolonization. I am very happy and relieved that we chose you as the appropriate keynote speaker for this for this session. And also because I like when I started I told you I first met you in 1994 in an anthropology class. And by 2003, you went off to Kenya to to to Kenya. In 1999, I went to Botswana. Yeah. Oh, yes. I forgot that part. I'm so sorry. You went off to the invention of Botswana. And then in 2003, you moved to, to, to Kodeshra. And when I was looking for you at some point, I realized you've been appointed as the head of Anthropology at the University of Cape Town. My question to you looking at looking at the place of knowledge production and mobility and how we in the South we engage in with the issue of decolonization. I would like you to to illustrate the place of mobility and decolonization from your own personal trajectory. I mean, it's so obvious, isn't it? I told you about mobility, starting from the very idea of motion, coordinated movement when a child is born. And you reach out, you have your system, the neurosciences at play balancing and being able to use your legs, use different parts of your body, adopt to the cultural context in which you are called upon to act and interact with others. That one, a child that starts their life with such baby steps as I started in Cameroon from the grass field that I referred to, following the logic of one person's child is only in the womb, or if you didn't want overly to dramatize the grass fields, you could go to Chinah Achebe and the idea of the world being like a dancing masquerade. If you want to watch it well, you have to keep pace with the dance and be able to document it like that. And I'm sure your idea of decolonization is about knowing that the world is nimble footed and good researchers and good collaborators, including Adam Abib, who is now nimble footedly gone to Swaz after the experience that he had here in Wiza, in a bit, means that basically you have to see how this mobility that is central to each and every one of us, each and every knowledge system, each and every ontology and epistemology should be allowed to rise and blossom. And I think that my own personal trajectory, modest as it is, is evidence of that. Incompleteness leads to quest, questing leads to all sorts of mobilities of various kinds, took me to Botswana, you've not mentioned the UK where I got my PhD and so on and so forth. Took me to Stedegaard to take me here and I remained an open-ended until even when I'm six feet deep, I continue to be mobile. It's not going to end there. I'm going to be mobilized by people who if you leave, you outlive me, you continue to mobilize your memories of your associations with me and draw me out of the grave to help you resolve some problems that you continue to encounter. So mobility is eternal. I in my own nimble footedness is an example of that, but this is by no means a unique thing. Everybody has a lot of mini stories to tell and my writings actually point to that, that instead of us imposing one meta narrative, one way of seeing and doing in a zero sum fashion or winner takes all, we should open up to all these multiplicities of influences thanks to our mobilities and be able to enrich our academy, decolonize accordingly, change curricula by collaborating between the university and the people from outside of the academy. And that is why I write the books I do. The book Drinking from the Cosmic God, How Amos Tutuola Can Change Our Minds, an example of that. Amos Tutuola, in many ways, was considered a freak creature, a freak writer, not accepted in the academy even when we thought he should be celebrated because he had a day to write with a language he did not master. We should reach out and bring those people into the academy to tell the stories that enrich our theorization, our practice, our teaching. That is what it means to have an inclusive, exciting curriculum university as knowledge production informed by a meeting a confluence of incompleteness is no one thinking that they are more, more complete than the others. Thank you so much. Distilling then from your sense of decolonization. What is the way forward for knowledge production? The way forward is precisely what I called for a sort of scholarship that is convivial in the sense that if we are determined to operate according to disciplines. These disciplines should be starting points, but they shouldn't be limiting. They shouldn't close off the borders where we begin to celebrate mediocrity instead of breaking new grounds and new areas. Discipline should be springboards that enable us to reach for the skies but with our feet firmly on the ground. And that means a certain openness, a certain disposition, a certain humility in our knowledge practices, in our knowledge production. We shouldn't be afraid to encounter and be enriched by others. And we shouldn't bury such enrichments under the carpet by assuming that we are taller than who we are by pretending that we are self made in our knowledge production by refusing to acknowledge those who have pointed us in the right direction and so on and so forth. So convivial scholarship is a scholarship informed by the constants and permanence of incompleteness. Not as a negative but as an attribute, a disposition that makes our sharpens our urge for inquiring and keeps us always moving around excitedly like the dancing masquerade and having new stories to tell with every excursion. Thank you so much. I know that over the years, I have tried to drag you and TG a bit feminist work and we've never really agreed. And I've also tried I'm a good student and tried not to argue so much with your mentor so. If we have to listen to you if we, if we have to ask you, those of us who are engaged in say an example of feminists who said how distilling from what you have said, how, how would you apply feminist research as an example based on everything that you have said. Absolutely. Incompleteness is the key here. And a disposition to learn by taking your your incompleteness out to be sampled by other incompleteness is an enriched accordingly is what makes a humble and exciting knowledge producer. A knowledge producer shouldn't have any preconditions except a commitment to inquiry to quest and to scientific truth. And that basically means that if you find a factor that applies in the context where a category that applies the context where you are producing knowledge, say raise gender, gender, geography. Class and orders that apply you bring them in you do not say now the only thing that matters is class. No race, no ethnicity, nothing. The only thing that matters is sexuality. No other things that I saw as I think that picking and choosing might be relevant for focusing and pointing attention in a strategic essentially special to silences in our knowledge production process. But that shouldn't mean silence in alternatives. So basically, my incompleteness model would do justice to feminist scholarship by critical, critically interrogating such ways of doing scholarship informed by various dominances and assumptions of superiority, such as patriarchy and matriarchy. And I think that is really what I how what I celebrate in feminist scholarship this disposition to point attention to new exciting new ways of theorizing and analyzing things that are supposed to make the academy much more inclusive. And our, our intellectual project and theories, much more reflective of the complexity and nuance of the nimble footed dancing masquerade. Thank you so much, and Professor Nyamjo. I think, like we have been, it's important here for us to allow the, the audience and participants to engage with you and I from the Q and a from the Q and a section here I've got a couple of questions. And I think we have enough time for us to engage in most of them. And we hoping that you'll be able to circulate the presentation in case we're not able to answer all of this and we'll be able to send your email address to those who may have questions. I think that probably a time will not permit us to take the question. So, um, I know greetings Francis I know you have a long thought about, you have long thought about mobility from many angles I find a way in which you have lean mobility and the production of knowledge. You mentioned mobility and incomplete knowledge. And I think the person meant incompleteness, not complete, maybe may correct me if I'm wrong. This raises a question that I would like you to expand on, are we always in a state of incompleteness that pushes us always to be mobile. Absolutely. I think I'm not being able to see the question because I want to be to distract since you are you're a chair in but That is a great question. We are always in a state of incompleteness. We should disabuse ourselves of completeness because it's a very violent delusions and so on. And incompleteness doesn't mean that you do not enhance yourself through various forms of relationships, various technologies of enhancement, whether individually or culturally or collectively. But it simply means that you should introduce an element of humility and not an element of how I finally arrived as a supreme being now I can turn around and dictate to the environment, dictate to others, dictate. No, it's not in that because the fact of of dynamism of societies, dynamisms of individuals, dynamisms of knowledge production institutions is what leads a curricula to change to be reexamined and so on and so forth. New generations come and they defy us. We have a generation these days where they have a facility with technology, information and communication technologies of various kinds. And we just the rest of us who came earlier can just marvel. We tried to catch up but we're done quite. But in our days just writing on a piece of paper and writing in a straight line was considered to be the highest achievement ever. So we can achieve and celebrate achievement, but we should not delude ourselves that that is the pinnacle of things that that is complete where we become a law now dictating to everyone else how to do things. Thank you so much for that response. That question came from Caroline Hamilton. And she also wants to know whether there are situations where knowledge is somehow more complete than other times and is the core on mobility there and then greater. Could you carry through on the theoretical implications of the invocation of incomplete knowledge? Yeah, I mean, if knowledge is more complete is only relative to a particular project for which I require that knowledge. For example, I, I have a car and as long as I'm circulating within Cape Town I'm fine with my car it solves all my problems. If I want to go to Mauritius, no degree of completeness of my car will take me to Mauritius. I mean, I accept I become a James Bond and have a flying car that crosses over and then lands after I have taken off, I've reached a border between South Africa and the Indian Ocean and so on. So basically, knowledge is contextually satisfied, productive when in relation to the problems we solve but quest does not end simply because we have solved a particular situation. So it's that, that disposition to incomplete. And that's why I insist that incompleteness is not something to shy away from. It is actually something to embrace and celebrate. It's also edgy when it comes to incompleteness. I often laugh, I'm not a terribly tall person but whenever I see people who play basketball in a with great nimbleness, I, they do a lot with basketball and a lot of money with that. But if it came to bend him down to picking a pin from the floor, I think I have a greater advantage in my shortness. I would do that with less effort and less risk to my anatomy. So he's at one level I might think of him as more complete in terms of height, but when it came to what I can do with my shortness, he cannot rival me. Hence the global acumen of incompleteness is enhancing one another in order to maximize the potency that they seek to become efficacious in the actions and interactions as whatever that obtains. Thank you so much. I hope, I hope your explanation would clarify some of the issues for Karen. The next question is from Sam hiking. Please if I don't pronounce your name very well. I'm sure we are in the right session of incompleteness so you may just forgive me. So the next question is from Sam hiking. In what ways through what practices can a politics of convivial scholarship overcome the inequalities embedded within current process of knowledge production. Absolutely. That's a very good question. It comes by recognizing incompleteness. It comes as a universal and not something that some have a monopoly of or and some don't or something you can undo in a permanent basis. It comes by recognizing mobility, debt and indebtedness, which is the key. Many, many knowledge systems around the world have borrowed a lot from others, but they try to sweep the debt and indebtedness under the carpet because they want to be told on their achievements. In fact, taller than they actually are. They want their approach knowledge production or mobility with a zero sum game of winner takes off. So the convivial scholarship that I'm suggesting is one in build with the humility to know that you can still be celebrated while recognizing your debt and indebtedness. I think you and Andrea have all this fascinating ideas of international collaboration. You, it is a new leaf that you are turning on collaboration, but you know clearly that some collaboration of the past have been heavily skewed towards, particularly those who have the resources and those who feel they are taller in terms of years of intellectual achievements and century and so on and they can dictate that nonsense must stop. Thank you so much. I'm just going to, I just want to take as many questions as possible. And I'm grateful and the manner in which you are limiting your responses. And I just want participants to know that they can always see a right to you to you if they need other issues of clarity. I have this question from Malika Kramer. I love the concept of convivial scholarship. What are your thoughts of someone of your caliber, how to include exclude voices and conversation as we have pragmatic limitations of time. Including voices is basically you start with your students. You don't start by a sense that professor is always right. I said that the professor is always right, even in his sweeping trunk. No, that is not, the classroom becomes a venue in which nobody has a monopoly of insights. It becomes an opportunity to exchange where students can enrich the discussion as well as you. And even the university becomes too narrow a context to debate and find solutions to all of society's problems. Sometimes has the need to have curricula that reaches that reach out to the world outside various stakeholders, including those who whom we only associate with tradition that belongs in the past. So for a very good example for that, where everybody is a possible potential solution to it, each in their own way, and you bring them into this conversation. The convivial scholarship is really about increasing the levels of conversations, intra-faculty conversations, inter-faculty conversations and taking the academy into the wider society and bringing the wider society into the academy in a serious, structured, open-ended way and not assisted to the gesture of goodwill. Thank you so much. And this other person actually speaks to the different portfolios we have held in different institutions. And it comes from Marion Wallace, what role can those should publish in play in decolonization. I would be very interested to hear about your experience at Kodeshwa and Lagas. That's a fascinating question. I could dwell on it all day. In Kodeshwa, I wrote a paper called From Publish or Perish to Publish and Perish. It means that the traditional skewed interactions in the knowledge production that have always given the north, global north, the upper hand continue to carry the day, even amongst us decolonial scholars. When they come to Lagas and Kodeshwa, when every other possibility to publish with the big names out there have failed. And we come dictating our terms to them and pushing them to bend over backwards to the point of contortion to publish them as if they were doing Lagas and Kodeshwa favor. Incompleteness and the mobility and recognizing the compositeness of being and debt and indebtedness actually means that for convivial scholarship to work, we must provide more leveling playing field in terms of this publishing, not only publishing, but any opportunities for ventilating our scholarship, our conversations, and so on and so forth. So what needs to be done and in fact convivial scholarship demands on those who have enjoyed power and privilege much more. In this case, the patriarch like myself, but in other case the geographically positioned and the economically well positioned and so on and so forth to make a clear effort in terms of redressing these inequities and showing that they actually are committed to a more participatory, a more democratic idea of producing and consumption of knowledge. Thank you so much. I'm just going to read this question which come from Dr. Monica O2, but I think she preempted your response so I guess you've already answered, but let me just read it. I'm really enjoying the conversation, Prof. One thing that has captured my interest in what you have said so far is the call for convivial scholarship. Prof, I would like you to provide us with some insight as to the position or current debate efforts of Nordin and Southern scholars in respect to this call for convivial scholarship. Yes, what I can do is send my email address by chat. I have at least two publications which I can share or that develop the idea of convivial scholarship more and I show this how we could use it in decolonizing the academy. Thank you so much. And I wouldn't want us to end the session without clarifying the question from clarifying the question which Caroline posed. I think somehow I misread it out. So she says my question was the opposite of what was read out. I ask does Francis think there are situations where knowledge is more incomplete, not complete than others. That do you think there are situations where knowledge is more incomplete? Yes, at any given time of the dancing masquerade they stop to take stock of how much dust from different lands and from different spaces they have accumulated on their feet. And they were examined to see how enriching that dust has been. They take stock of the spectacles that they have taken in as a result of the dance. So I would imagine that the longer your dance, the more you are able to accumulate the capital from interaction with different incompleteness is to enhance yourself. So circulation leads to better enhancement but it doesn't lead to completeness. Okay. Thank you so much. I will just take one or two last questions and then there are many questions can be posed to you on email. And then the next question comes from Ronald Stain. What structures and interests prevent us from embracing incompleteness in knowledge production practices? I think that's a very good question. Just this morning I sent to Angelica a paper I just did on Cecil Rhodes, the complete gentleman of imperial dominance. And she could share it in the group. And basically I argue that although mobility is central to all what we do. And although it is often always motivated by incompleteness and then the quest and that takes you out. It is not everybody who moves in a way that seeks to accommodate other mobilities and other incompleteness. They move in zero sum fashion. They encounter orders in winner takes all the exercise various technologies of dominance in order to maintain power and privilege. That form of mobility is a very violent one. And there's no room for it in convivial scholarship convivial scholarship is all about this abusing ourselves of the excesses of the bloody violence of such types of mobility. So if you want to read more, Angelica will share that paper with you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Professor Nyamjo. I will just read the last question because I would like you to, I would like to give just a few minutes for your concluding comments. The last question is from Jennifer Manica. In our journey through our party, when mobility was limited and we carry its effects, recognizing our incompleteness, how do we move forward as a nation to upward mobility and functionality when we are faced with denial or they're not knowing? You see, that's a very good question. Mobility, mobility is made possible or mobility the capacity to be mobile immobilized can lead to various condition is on various cultures. So if you are in a context where your mobility is denied systematically. So it tends to act in those ways with those limited limitations that have been imposed upon you. And from the child one person's child being only in the womb. It tells you that most of what we become most of what we celebrate is a result of particular forms of socialization of particular forms of mobilization so you can, you can reenact them. Almost effortlessly. So we can undo that. The whole notion of raising the attention to the possibility of convivial scholarship is that we can, we can begin the process of the defrosting and re-activating ourselves in tune with another form of mobility that is not a zero sum contra superiority syndrome type. I think, I think there's, it's a very hopeful model. And I think that is what I would like everyone to take away from this. Thank you so much. Any concluding comments? Just incompleteness, mobility, encounters, compositeness of being, debt and indebtedness and conviviality. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, participants. And I really want to thank those who actually sent through their questions. I think the question did enrich the sessions. And your questions they actually injected in him the passion to engage deeper into some of the issues and issues that we have discussed so thank you so much for participating. And I think we will be moving to the next session. I want to call on where she Angelica or Andrea. And thank you so much, Professor Francis. And thank you to everyone. Our next session will begin at 1215 at Afghan time. Am I right, Andrea? That's right. Yeah, and I think the link's been sent now through in the, in the, in the chat. And I'll put the link through. So come and join the next session with Desiree Lewis and Awino. Thank you so much. So thank you so much, colleagues. Please, if you have not registered for the next do so register and join us. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Thank you so much.