 Welcome back now to the main issue for the day. The decision to impose a tax on gains from the disposal of digital assets reflects the government recognition of the economic potentials of cryptos. The global cryptocurrency market has witnessed remarkable growth in recent years with digital assets, gain and wider acceptance, as alternative investment options. By taxing gains from the disposal of these assets, the Niger government aims to capture a portion of the economic value generated from these transactions contributing to the country's overall revenue stream. Now joining me now to discuss further on this is the CEO of Black, George, or Mosul. Many thanks for joining me, George. Good morning to you. Morning. All right, let's just dive straight to it. What are the significant implications of the introduction of these tax on gains from the disposal of digital assets for the nation's economy? Thank you so much for that question, Justin. First of all, before I even say anything, I would like to put it out there that I am pro tax, I am fully aware of the benefits that taxes have on the state. However, I do believe that the taxes that are being imposed on cryptocurrency at this point in time are early, and the reason I say that is because if you consider countries like Dubai and Portugal, these countries have a 0% taxation policy, and that's obviously because they understand that the industry is relatively new, and the industry is, I would like to liken the cryptocurrency landscape in Nigeria to the baby of a giant. And what I mean by that is it appears as something that's mature, as something that is ripe, that's something that is ready, that looks massive. There's a lot of noise and a lot of conversation around what the things happening in the cryptocurrency landscape. However, it's still immature. It's still very young. It's still very tender, right? So the imposition of these taxes, I believe, have adverse, a lot of adverse effects towards contributing to startups being scared to play in that space, and also it might deter a lot of the early adopters from getting into that space, so which is why countries like Dubai and Portugal would impose 0% taxes because they're looking to encourage a lot of influx of talents, crypto talents. I'm aware of some of the businesses who are actually clients and partners to us at Black, who have actually moved their operations from other parts of Europe to Dubai to establish their crypto businesses there, and it's because these laws have taken into account the immature states of the cryptocurrency industry. I mean, you're aware it's relatively new, right? So given enough support, I believe the state should first of all prioritize given support to the industry to first of all mature to the point where structures are built, institutions are built. When you have institutions, it's a lot easier to enforce government policies. Okay, fine. Since you talked about the e-majority and all of that, and you talked about countries that have imposed just 0% as in no taxation on the crypto space. So how long do you think we can get or should take before we start talking about taxing those digital assets? I don't think it's a function of time alone. I think we need to be deliberate about the investment in the industry. So it's the government having conversations with experts in this industry to gather data on the things that need to be put in place, whether it's policies, whether it's partnerships with various institutions and organizations to see how best we can create a conducive environment for these small businesses to become institutions. And the reason why this is extremely important is crypto is a decentralized technology by nature. It's extremely difficult to police, right? Governments are centralized organizations. So if the government intends to be able to tax a decentralized system, they need to become the underlying platform that organizations are built upon. It has to be willful. Organizations in the crypto space need to be able to identify the benefits that the state is providing for their organizations to thrive, such that paying taxes will not be an unwillful endeavor. If I understand that, there's a value exchange going on, which is why nobody has problems with paying money and receiving a good of commensurate value. It's because the ideal exchange is something that cuts across everyone. So if I understand that paying my taxes makes this environment conducive for me to continue to do business, continue to thrive, I won't have any problem with it. And the government, you can understand that from a technical standpoint, they can't even enforce these things unless these companies and these players in this space are working together with the government in order to achieve that. It's extremely important. Alright, George, now let me look at it from another angle because a school of thought believes that this development actually means that government has acknowledged the legitimacy and the potential of digital assets, what they have or what they hold for economic development of the country. Do you agree? Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm very excited that the government is actually acknowledging these things because it's creating an environment where investors can feel more secure and more encouraged to get into that space because whenever the state is involved, obviously there's more stability in the industry, there's more certainty because the state has an obligation to the people. So that acknowledgement is good. However, I would say that if you ask me, the taxes, there should be certain tax concessions for particularly the startups, the young businesses, the new businesses, the new players in the space, you know, and that can gradually grow as the businesses themselves grow. Alright, so another angle, again, to look at it, would be that the inclusion of digital assets within the tax framework would actually help to address some of the regulatory challenges associated with cryptos. Do you agree? I do not agree. I do not agree. I don't agree, you know, because like I said, the nature of the technology is decentralized, right? Everyone has a say when it comes to crypto. There is no one party that is above another party. Yes, some wallets have more zeros inside of them than some others, but everyone is equal when it comes to crypto and blockchain technologies at large. So, you know, simply enforcing taxes will not regulate the technology. It's not going to regulate the industry, right? Which is why, like I said, the government needs to be working hand in hand in concerts with industries helping to first and foremost build them up to the point where they become institutions, institutions that trust and rely on the government who then voluntarily, you know, would want to work in concert with the government to achieve the government's aims. That's the only way I see here in order to achieve this. OK, let's just digress a little bit, although still talking about cryptocurrency, I want to understand what's really happening in the crypto verse because specifically Bitcoin and its volatility, you know, sometime in January, it touched about 116.5, that's the index, but right now it's near 64. It's as though it's really dropping. What's happening in the crypto verse? Crypto, like I said, you know, still very new, still very young. We're still getting to understand the dynamics of it. There have been a lot of things that have played, you know, different roles, setting, you know, key players, you know, have been brought to almost nothing, right? And these these these these events have actually affected the value of the valuation of the perceived valuation of the cryptocurrency. So it's a lot of events that have played out up to this point. I don't think anyone can actually pinpoint one thing that has affected the trajectory of, you know, the valuation of the Bitcoin or any of these other cryptocurrencies. I think they I personally believe they are still not mature to the point of stability where it becomes predictable. So I would say let's give it a couple of years while they're deliberately investing in building, like I said, institutions. It's institutions that bring stability, that bring structure to a terrain to the point where it becomes, you know, more predictable. All right, as we wander from this discourse, right? Now, we've talked about, you know, the seemingly effantile nature of this whole crypto. But what would you advise really to the Nigerian government in as much as they have begun to acknowledge you know, what is actually inherent in that particular space? What more can they do in terms of regulations and all of that? So first of all, seeing as this is a technology centered terrain, I would strongly recommend having conversations with the technologists, inviting, you know, a number of the e-players and some of the underdogs as well to conversations for the purpose of understanding better the terrain in order to better design policies that have the potential to affect everyone. So that's really what I would advise in terms of regulations, it's different for every industry. It's different for every business, right? Cryptocurrency is really just it's a financial technology, right? And it applies differently to different businesses because every business engages in transactions. So for every, you know, business or sub-business under the industry, the regulatory policies might differ. You know, so I would really strongly recommend having conversations with the technologies and letting us play a very direct role in some of the formations of these policies just so that they are better executed, better suited for the industry and will potentially lead to long term growth and sustainability. Well, thank you so much. I have been speaking with some judge or most of the CEO of Black. Many thanks for all of the useful insights that you have provided today. Thank you. All right, as we go today on the show, the Association of Mobile Morning and Bank Agents in Nigeria, Amban, has vowed to ensure the implementation of the frameworks put in place by the Central Bank of Nigeria to ensure compliance by members. National President of Amban, Victor Elijah-Flank by other officials said this while addressing newsmen on some issues raised by the House Committee on banking and currency with regards to agency banking and financial inclusion. I'll leave you with details of that. I'll see you again tomorrow. My name is Justin Akadone. Many thanks for watching. The impact of mobile money and agency banking, the heat, a crescendo in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic and the lockdown with active point of cell terminals used by merchants for financial transactions recording about 3.1 trillion in the second quarter of 2021. The increase in the value of purest transactions in Nigeria shows the span and patterns of Nigerians and payment preferences, reaching all new concreni and by extension, deepening the nation's financial inclusion drive. However, there have been complaints of proliferation of agents, lack of KYC to even issues of theft and other fraudulent activities. The Amban executive spoke of a tax force for self-regulation while clarifying other grey areas. Just take one of the case studies. I mean, part of the framework of the CBN is that a mobile money or bank agent should be in a brick and mortar location, like an address that is traceable. But what we have today are agents under umbrellas, trees. We have agents who are oking this terminal. Rising from our fifth Amban National Conference held in Abidia last year. One of the resolutions that came out of our robust deliberations with all critical stakeholders was to begin self-regulation using our tax force. Victor Olojo lamented that the members are rough on the receiving end when it came to counterfeited bills and other fraudulent activities, making a renewed call for adequate trading. There was a robbery case that happened in the east and somebody's phone was snatched and those bad guys came to Lagos, they took the seam and transferred the funds to an agent. And the agent, innocently, actually served that customer, not knowing that that customer is actually an armed robber. What we find out now is that those merchants now turn the outlay to a mobile money-register outlay. And that's not what the POS is meant for. And those that give out the POS know that this is what's going on. But they're not putting them because what they want, they want money. The growth in the number of POS businesses in the country has formed a major source of employment for Nigerians, especially the youths.