 All right. Welcome everyone. This is the TSC weekly call. This is a public meeting. Everybody is welcome to join and participate. There are two requirements doing so, though, the antitrust policy, the notice of which is being currently displayed on the screen. I think everybody is online. So you should all be seeing it and have that printed in the back of your eyeballs by now. And the other piece is the code of contact, which I'm sure you're all familiar with. So with those requirements being met, I assume, we can actually move on with the other agenda. We have a bit of a different type of call today, because we'll be starting a series of presentations from the working group, CIGs and projects with Bobby. And we also have Lindsay from the DCI working group, who wants to get us to, I mean, consider approving some recommendation that come from the DCI working group. So, but before we get there, is there any announcements? I will repeat just in case somebody missed that, this is meant to be a last call for the year. So we'll resume in January, unless something really happens, but I doubt it. So is there anything else anybody wants to announce? If not, I guess we can move on. We had, we have two new quarterly reports. The first one I put back, it's great because we added fairly late last week. And so I wanted to make sure anybody had a chance if they had comments or questions. The other two quilt and Bezu came this week. And I, they, the reports themselves didn't ask for any kind of like, you know, didn't raise any issues for us to consider a discuss, but I wanted to ask if anybody has any questions, or if anybody wanted to raise anything. A room. So one of the things which I have been observing in these late reports are, sorry, late in the sense of late on these reports, which I'm receiving last few weeks is that many of these projects are asking for more contributions and they say that's one of the things which they're looking forward for. So I feel this is something which we should ask them, the project maintainers to join our calls and probably discuss more about what their plans are and see if we can help them in some way. And I see this being a common issue with few of those project reports, if not all of them. Yes. And I, you know, I totally understand how you feel about this, but you know, for those of us who've been here for a while, we feel like, yeah, this is a recurring issue. People say, hey, we'd like to have more people come and join us. And the reality is, you know, the TSE doesn't have any magic wand there. And we always kind of all look at each other say, yeah, it would be nice if we could do something. So I don't know, I'm not opposed to trying to do that, but before we invite them, you know, I would, I would suggest, you know, if we want to look into this again, as you know, our discussion among ourselves, what are the kind of things we can do? Maybe it is better if it's done in the context of a particular project, but I don't know. That's my feeling. Daniel, go ahead. So there is a monthly marketing meeting developer marketing. That is goes and gets announced in all of the different projects. And that's a great place to try and find more people to get stuff to come in. So for those projects, you know, if they were participating in that move to that, that would be, you know, it wouldn't help. There's a newsletter they put out where also can get more information out to people, you know, to get more contributors. You got to get the word out is the fundamental thing. Yeah, that's a very good point. Thank you for bringing that up. I'm here. I was going to jump in. Yeah. And marketing is on that call. So that's the perfect way to get synced up with us and, you know, figure out what we're working on and collaborate. So. And there is the newsletter, which is open to, you know, the community to add, or at least have us consider to put things in there. So we'd love to have more project maintenance contributors on that call. Yeah. So maybe that's, you know, there's something to be said here that Daniel points out is, you know, are we sure the maintainers understand they are maybe missing out on the opportunity here to engage with the marketing? You know, it maybe they tend to think of it as, oh, they are asking me more, you know, to do more work. But maybe we should present it as an opportunity for them to, you know, get more visibility in their project and, and also potentially attracting more contributors. And if they saw the possible gain there, they will be more motivated to engage. So there is, we are doing something here about that. We're trying to. So we are running a contribution campaign right now for the blockchain automation framework. We're going to see how that goes. And once that is done, we're going to be running one a contribution campaign for the fabric translation documentation stuff. So there are opportunities for that that are that are upcoming next year. So there are, there are other ways to get engaged, just hold up your hand and we'll try to make something happen next year. Thank you. Good to you. But this is a reoccurring thing or no, right? Yes. TSC needs to be involved. To some degree, because it's, you know, we always hear the barrier that to get in to start contributing as high and things like that. So I, I think, you know, it's not just one project. There's a bunch of projects that all have the same issues. So maybe the TSC can help here. I have no specific ideas, but. Well, that's the problem was going to say, okay, you know, I'm all here. Do you have suggestions? Because as you said, this is a recurring problem. And my, my only, you know, the only reason I'm a little bit hesitant to just committing to trying to tackle this is because I feel like, well, unless that anybody has any new ideas, we're just going to be sitting there saying, yeah, this is a story situation, but we don't know what to do about it. What if we turned one of the TSC calls into like a presentation from marketing? I know we hate to do anything like that, but a presentation on with me, marketing and kind of the results that we've seen from the contributed thons and showing, you know, and we invite the project, meet painters and contributors like. So our room was saying earlier and they could see all the things that the folks have done for one contribute a thon and all the opportunities we presented on a call. And we just invite them to that to one call or we have a couple of calls. Because I just don't think people are aware of the opportunities and marketing struggles with how can we best communicate that, right? We have this one standing call. I, you know, I joined this call every month or every week. And then I tried to get on rocket chat and message people. So I don't know what's the best way to get the word out. Okay. No, that's an interesting idea. I think, you know, I'm definitely supportive of trying to help bridge the gap there. I do think there is a missile for the opportunity. And to ruin. Yeah, so another idea around that, just to increase the entry, I mean, decrease the entry barrier and increase the participation from new, new contributors is would be in these quarterly reports, if they are asking for new contributions coming in, and probably it's best time for us to ask maybe in the quarterly reports, or if not this, maybe another report where they submit. And then they pick up a roadmap for, let's say, an extreme months or next six months. And then they say, okay, so I have a project. Now I have this feature to be developed and we know how the design is. All we need is more contributors so that we could pick it up faster and then get it done. So having that broken down will definitely reduce the entry barrier for new contributions. I think that was a, that was something that Dan Oh, delivered for two newsletters ago, which was a block of good first issues for Bezu. So not only having the good first issues tagged and get up, but specifically there were two, three, four issues that the Bezu team said, please look at these. So again, I want, I'm not going to like repeat everything but we have the Dev Weekly letter, which has a great open rate. And please help us make that better. All right, guys, we need to move on. So I don't want to cut us off, but I think we should stop on this for now. And I think this is worth spending some time on a feature call. So I'll add that to the next calls agenda. And we can discuss it further and try to see, you know, practical actions like this we could take. I think that's worth definitely looking into. Okay. So back to the quarterly reports, other than that, is there any specific questions against any one of those reports? I didn't hear any. So if there is Anthony, then I think we should move on. And I'm going to give the floor to Bobby. As I said earlier, she is here to present on what's going on in the learning materials development working group. And this is part of the series of trying to, you know, presentation from the working groups, try to get the TSC more aware of what's going on on this side. Hi, everybody. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. Okay, great. So I am the, uh, one of the members of the learning materials working group. Um, we've been around for two years. We gather and create both guidelines and end finished products for the community. And we try to keep them organized. Um, the conversation we just had about how to get people on board is a perfect segue to this presentation I'm giving. So I'm very glad that it fit in properly in the time. Um, so basically we are just, um, a wiki page away. We're right listed in groups. Um, down in learning materials development and you'll get to our homepage, which we're going to go over in a second. Um, other than, um, the homepage, which we're trying to make the one stop for the community to go, hopefully Monday morning to find out what's going on during the week in the community. Um, that is our homepage. Um, we're going to talk about the, uh, welcome page, which is how new members get on board. Um, we're going to talk about how to get new members to get new members from interested in the community to working in the community. And on that page, it's clearly specifies the four steps you need to do. Um, and we'll go over those really quick. We also have been developing and have approved lots of templates for the community, which we have stored in our wiki page as well. We'll briefly show you those. Um, we've been working closely with the Linux foundation edX team on the courses that are offered to the public. Um, and more, most importantly to us as the resource library where we've been gathering the, um, and result of the work the community has done and tried to put it in an easy accessible format so that when you want to say, Oh, I have a use case. I can show you, you can get to it quickly. Or if you say, Oh, you can get to that lab pretty quickly. We're not trying to rewrite anything the labs has done or the projects have done or the groups have done. We just more have links to their information. Um, we're not again, trying to redo anything that has been created. Um, finally, uh, we're going to talk about, um, how people can get involved in these presentations. So the first place I'm going to go is our homepage. Again, you can grab it right here, learning development, materials development, working group homepage. Um, if we go down, the first thing you're going to see are the meeting notes and the, uh, recordings and the zoom link for the calls because it's important you get on the calls and it should be the easiest one click away. Uh, we work on these meeting notes during the weeks in between so you can always see what's happening. Um, become a community member is a link to the new members welcome page, which we're going to talk about next. Um, here is our resource library. It looks like books. Each one is clickable. It'll get you to the page that houses that information. Then, uh, on our homepage, which is why I refer to it to the Monday morning page, we try to collect from, um, I know David Boswell with the meetups is, is excellent about Monday morning sending us the weekly meetups that are happening within the community. I try to highlight a SIG or a working group that's doing something. I'm sorry. I forgot Lindsay to put your, uh, motivation for your presentation on the 11th in that box, but I know you're going to talk about that later. So here are all the meetups that are happening. Um, and then the coming up week, um, there's also events that happen in hyper ledger that we like to call out like the five year celebration. Um, here are the recordings for this, the past events, this past month. There's one, um, event left leading up to the big networking session, which everybody should join everybody who's hearing my voice right now should go to this on December 17th. Um, so sign up for that here. That's right on our homepage. And again, this is updated just about every day. Um, we're encouraging new members. So we want to make it an easy place to onboard. So again, here's your four steps. We'll talk about that when we go to the new member welcome page. We also try to keep the most current greenhouse graphic. Um, and we'll go to the presentations later, the most current greenhouse graphic and then events outside the community, like for instance, the COVID credentials. Um, the big news there is that the Linux foundation public health, um, has asked them to join. That's huge. There's a big announcement tomorrow, December 11th. If you're interested, you can just go to the COVID creds website and find out about that. Again, the, uh, government blockchain association is holding a, uh, achievement awards. If you know anybody who's got an interesting blockchain project, have them submit the award there. The wall street blockchain association is looking for members for their working groups. The list is there. They're having a holiday party on the 17th. Also, um, things going on in, um, with the, um, Ethereum enterprise, Ethereum alliance, they're hosting some classes. Simba chain is doing something and you can always catch my monthly Friday night ledger academy poker tournament if you're interested. Um, so again, these are outside the community events as well as we have the inside the community events. We also try to keep on our homepage, quick links to use cases, how to build a blockchain social impact project. Here's the trust over IP stack diagram that everybody's talking about. And the, um, the presentation that marketing puts out for, um, us to use when describing hyper ledger to folks outside the community. Um, and they update that twice a year. So that's usually always updated on the homepage. Um, let's getting back to the agenda. So basically the homepage we want everybody to go to in the beginning of the week to see what's happening during the week. Um, and that's great. You see these meetings, but you still don't know how to get involved. So that's where this welcome page comes in. And again, anyone who needs to get involved. There's four simple steps. Everybody here already has gone through these steps. So I'm not going to go through them, but they are, you know, getting your login. Once you get your login, you'll get this, um, edit menu. You can start editing wiki pages. Um, here are the two that I find interesting. People need to know how to join the calls. They don't realize they have to hit the join button that would be here. Um, to actually be enrolled in the mailing list. And you can also do that on the side of every homepage. Um, so I talk about how to actually do that and then how to get involved in the calls. You want to be able to, um, This is the link. Um, go to the calendar of public meetings and copy that zoom link and realize that it lists every day what calls are happening in the community. Um, if you don't know how to do that, you have to, somebody has to show you how to do that. So we're hoping that this section of the webpage does that pretty clear. Um, not only do we answer the question of how to get involved, we also talk about why to get involved. Now this was published by the hyper ledger community. It's to show people your affiliation with hyper ledgers. So if you are working on a project, if you're working on a project, put this on your business card, put this on your LinkedIn page, you know, share it with the community, whatever you need to do to get the word out there that you're a member of the capital market special interest group or the identity working group. Um, hyper ledger is encouraging people to use that. So not only does it talk about how to get involved, but why to get involved. And I know I'm pressed for a little time here. Um, so again, if you're encouraging anyone to get in, you know, if you're looking for a new job, you can go to the Wiki page. And we walk through that usually on our calls when we have newcomers every other Monday. So if people are still having trouble, you can always direct them to our call. We have a newcomer. We'll go through that. Next, I'm going to talk about the templates we've been developing. Um, so again, we're working on this graphic to make it all our stuff look like this. So we're working on this. We're working on this to give the community a place to. Start. We don't want to have too many people working on. How to do a white paper. We'd rather just get the information out there. So we offer templates for, um, You know, if you want to do a white paper, here's what you have to do for hyper ledger. Here is a formatted white paper outline for you. And here is a copy of the hyper ledger white paper. We ever want to read that over. Um, so here is information again for white papers. We have them for use cases. We have a general document on how to do a use case. We also have a, you know, you can copy that. And we also have, um, for the learning materials working group, we take all the use cases and we put them in this format for our use case resource library. So that templates there too. Um, you know, graphic sets, if you're interested in doing it, we have all the logos stored on a Google drive presentations stored and guidelines for you to create, um, any of this information. Again, all of these are in here. You want to do a webinar. You want to do an edX course. It gives you the information, you know, if you want to do a blog, here's some blog basics for you. Um, so that we try to, um, get this stuff up here for the community to use so that they're not, um, spending too much time on that. Um, and then the learning materials working group for, for usually action items during the week, we try to work really closely with, um, the people over at the edX. We try to be their proofreader. So when a course comes from, um, the edX people, they'll give it to us to run through and check it for them. Check to make sure the links are current, the graphics are current and everything reads well. Um, so if anybody listening to this calls a project maintainer or has documentation that needs to be proofread, here's a list of people who will do that anytime you ask. Just go here, select an email. So do you have time to do this or send it to me and I will send it out to the group and then people will volunteer to help you. Um, we also try to list the status of all the edX courses that are offered and the Linux foundation courses that are offered. So how this works is the Linux foundation creates a test or creates a certification and then the edX staff builds courses to back up those certifications. So here are the standing edX courses and the recent updates from Flavia that she has told us, um, for when we can edit these, um, we try to do most of the certification course is a combination of, uh, two or three of the edX courses that are complimentary. But when you go for the certification is when you have to pay. Uh, we also like to, um, collect, like the other gentlemen was saying about the, um, endeavors in the community to get this in different languages. We try to get that up and running as well. Um, and we try to keep these updated. And also when we get a discount for the courses, we publish that too. So if you're looking at taking, um, the sawtooth development course, but you wanted to wait or the, um, certified hyperledger developer course and you wanted to wait till you could afford it there. They often offer, um, coupons for that. So that's something that we keep in mind. Um, and then the edX part of this, uh, we are just redoing our, um, github repository. Uh, we have a structure for it. And the first thing we're trying to do is we're going to try to help Rafael, uh, bill core with his, um, university course. We're going to try to get that in our github, uh, repository so that, uh, universities, if they're interested in offering blockchain courses can just go here and get a framework to start. Um, basically that's the edX and the. Uh, github part, um, I'm saving the best for last, which is our resource library. So our resource library tries to collect the information from all of the, uh, community. So for instance, like the frameworks, we don't try to redo the information on the home pages for the projects. We just try to get other information or quickly reference. So I, for instance, we're trying to get a framework to, um, provide a framework for the projects. Um, for instance, Basu, everybody was talking in the technical steering community a few weeks ago about keeping these running. So I'm trying to copy them for each one of the projects each month so that you can see the difference. We have the key characteristics of the project and usually the competencies in the courses. Let me see moves. I probably have that in fabric. Um, so again, always put the updated cord delivery report here as well as the company sees for the test. And again, we keep this pretty much going pretty much active. And we link to the documentation that the fabric people put out. We don't try to recreate it in any way shape or form. So again, we collect documentation that the community has put out and keep it here. So if you're interested in Sawtooth, you can go right to the project page, or you can come here to see a little bit more of a metadata of what's going on in the projects. So that's our frameworks and tools. And we try to keep that as updated as possible. We're really proud of our use cases. So what we've done there, we still have to put the library graphic. But if you see this is our template for use cases. And when we get use cases, we take them and we put them in that quick, easy, challenge approach result format with links to the actual videos that the companies for these use cases put out there. So we try to keep that up to date when we hear of a use case, we put it in this format and plop it in our indexable use case. One of our biggest pushes is our key terminology. I know the edX people and a few other organizations outside of Hyperledger have asked for a glossary from us. So what we're trying to develop is a, and this is a work in progress here, key terminology that the community can reference, it's going to be a living wiki page. So none of these definitions, we encourage the community to update them. We're going to have different levels of definitions, depending on your level of acumen with the content, so that hopefully this will be something that people will use when they're developing their documentation, they can take this glossary or key terminology. And again, this is basically what we've been working on. It takes a lot of time to gather up all these definitions and decide which ones we're going to go with for the wiki page. But that's what we're basically working on. I want to save the best for last, which is the Hyperledger Labs. So I'm going to go really quickly over the learning materials, special interest group tie-in. People in our group try to make all of these calls. And I asked before this meeting for each one of the working groups and the special interest groups to send me an elevator pitch for their group. So I put those, the ones, the folks that responded, I put their responses in that section so you can see what they want you to know what they're working on, as well as information of their last presentations or their last working group calls or global events. So I try to keep again this up to date with what the SIGs are producing, same thing with the working groups. We try to keep that as up to date as possible with what's going on in the working groups. So again, people who responded, I put their information in here and hopefully this will be an easy place for people to see if they want to get on board with any of these learning materials tie-ins to the working group and special interest groups. We encourage our members at every meeting to go to these calls and update these fields so that hopefully this is that road we were talking about a few months ago that ties the projects to the working groups and special interest groups. I kind of look at it like the projects are the toy makers and the working groups and the SIGs are the people who are going to play with the toys. And hopefully the learning materials working group is the road that's going to get you guys together. So moving along, again, the Meetups is a very important outreach to the community. It's the only way we kind of get new members is through these Meetups. So we try to give you, encourage you to be a Meetup representative in your area if you don't have one or join the local Meetup if there is one. And again, David Boswell, big shout out to him, he organizes this to perfection. So the Meetups run smoothly and we coordinate with each other. And again, he's the one who gives you the weekly updates as to what's going on. I know I'm going really fast that I'm running out of time. So I'm going to jump back to the Hyperledger Labs. So now this... I was wondering if everybody was still out there. I've been talking so much. So these are the lab projects. Again, there's a lot of them out there and we're trying to work on a way to organize these and help these folks make these lab projects in or make these lab endeavors into projects or whatever, you know, the next step for them. For instance, I know this one is something we've worked on with Robbie Voss. He came to us with this... I'll just reach over here. See if this works. I'll be shocked. With... Oh, you got the wrong screen. Sorry. Let me escape out of this. With this presentation for a lab he needed to... So he has a starter kit for Hyperledger learners and what he wanted to do was he wanted to make this into a lab. So we're helping him with the presentation. The Learning Materials Working Group is helping him with the presentation so that this project, which I think is awesome, it's going to be great for prototyping. It's a configuration tool which lets you kind of pick the pieces you want to play with in an easy environment. So basically it reduces the barrier. Again, this would make a great lab project. So we're helping him do the steps to get into the labs. And this is basically the things you get to pick and choose with this kit. Let me see. It gives you what network do you want to explore? What version do you want to explore? It's a really nice tool. So again, the Learning Materials Working Group is trying to help him get that into the labs as we would like to help all of the rest of the labs move in to that final project as well. Let me see. Yep. So that's basically everything we're working on in our resource library. Again, I couldn't do this without a great team. These guys work really hard and they're coming up with really great ideas. Just in conclusion, I think that the Learning Materials Working Group hopefully could be that one-stop kiosk Monday morning for people who want to see what's happening as well as a place that the community can encourage on those Monday calls, newcomers to join, because we will walk you through logging in and getting involved in the community. Because if you can't join a call or get notified that a call is happening, you're not going to join it. So hopefully we have showed you what we're working on well enough so that you would feel comfortable going to groups to the Learning Materials Working Group homepage on Monday morning and seeing what's happening in and out of the community. So thank you very much for letting me share. And I hope to see you on a call. Well, thank you very much, Bobby, for this. I mean, it's definitely informative. I have to admit, I didn't realize how much you guys were doing. I'm impressed. I mean, I love your energy always, but I'm impressed by the amount of content you guys put together. My question would be, are we sure that people are aware and find those pages? Because it's kind of like hidden gem there. Again, I think I was encouraging people. For weeks, I've wanted to do this presentation again to show you that these resources are available. I was on a women in tech call and some members from the South African version of that had joined the call last week. And now they're working on our key terms. So again, it is, even though the information's out there, I do encourage people to join that Monday call, because if they see how easy it is to join, and once they get that username, they can join any project. That's one of the things on the community member talks about is how to join any project by their mailing list or by their just joining a call. All right. Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Bobby? I do. So not a question, rather per se, just a hello. Yeah, you go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. So not a question asked per se. So this is really great material. I think this larger community should notice that. And I would also like to quick call out for Ravi, who is also on the call. So he's also from, I mean, he is a regular volunteer for Hyperledger India chapter as well, because I get associated with India chapter. So I know him, he volunteers for many activities. In fact, we should help him out. So I would encourage him to bring this up, the material which Bobby just showed also to the chapters weekly calls. And let's see if we can pull in more people to our conduct. That's a great welcome. Thank you. Grace. Hi. Question. Can you all hear me? Yes. First, Bobby, I'm totally amazed by everything you guys are doing. And I didn't know you were doing even a quarter of that. So thank you for doing the presentation. My question is, you know, what is one thing that you would like the TSC to do to help support the learning materials working group? I know now I know exactly where to send newcomers to when they joined Hyperledger, but would love to kind of hear thoughts on how we can help. The only thing that I find lacking and I'd like to improve on is there are so many great presentations that happen that don't get captured. And that's what I'd like to improve on. So if anyone in the community knows of a great presentation that's happening, just send me an email and I'll put it up on that landing page so that everybody knows it's there. Because I feel that that's what's lacking is that there's so much going on. And if we have one place to find it, people will, the attendance would go up because people know what's happening. It's great. Do you mean to announce them before they happen or to capture the recording and have a page with links and stuff? Well, we do both. We do both. We announce it on the home page and then I try to steal it. I steal all the material you guys create, whether you know it or not. Yeah, yeah. But so I'm going to ask, I mean, maybe it's a question from Jessica. I don't know. I mean, do we really advertise those pages? Because today, if you're going to find those pages, it's not that obvious, right? I mean, it seems like, you know, this is a working group, like every other working group on a wiki. It's not highlighted. If I were completely new to Hyperledger, I naturally would quickly find my way there. And so I think this deserves to be more prominently featured on our websites and maybe wiki to kind of like, hey, if you're new, he is a good place to go, you know, to start. Yeah, I think, you know, we've tried, right, that like Bobby said, there's so much going on all the time. It's really hard to capture and things get buried. But, you know, Bobby, you and I have touch base and more than happy to help spread the word about the groups. And, you know, from global forum, we did do videos on the SIGs and working groups to really try to, you know, amplify what they're doing and how to get involved. And we had a whole campaign around that. So we've done things. I'm open to doing more. Obviously, there's lots of great work that needs to be highlighted. And I think it's just figuring out the best way. All right. Tracy? Yeah, I think that people could easily get lost, right? If they just show up at the learning materials working group homepage, I think they could easily lose themselves for a while and not necessarily know where they should end up, right? And so what I'm wondering is what, I think there's a lot of good stuff there. And I'm wondering what could we bring to maybe the Hyperledger website as a way of presenting this in a different form? And then maybe also secondly, I guess it would be maybe some sort of blog post on all that's out there. Might be a good way of getting people recognizing where they might want to go and the sorts of things that are available to them that maybe they didn't realize was out there. Yeah. Interesting point. All right, we're getting short of time. So I'm going to have to stop here. But thank you very much, Bobby. And obviously, you know, I think those are good ideas we should keep digging in and follow up on. So if anything, this proves the point that this is useful to have those presentations because we don't initially know what's going on enough in those working groups and sigs and so on. So thanks again, Bobby. I'm glad that you did this. I don't see Lindsay actually on the participant list. So the next point is never going to be able to defend really what I'll present what she wanted to present. But I'll give you a short intro and then, you know, we can reschedule that. So the DCI working group, you know, they did a survey and then they came up with a bunch of recommendations last year. And then they said, well, but what now? And so they moved on to the, okay, how do we actually make this actionable? And they came up with a bunch of motions they wanted to be to propose, you know, to one set is for the governing board, and they have done that. And this was approved by the governing board. And another set is for the TSC. And in that, they are trying to get us to support what they are doing. And in, you know, very practical terms. So the way Lindsay, she reached out to me just a few days ago. And she's like, I have a quick thing for the TSC to approve. I don't think they should be taking much time. And I kind of like, you know, I don't think that has ever happened in the TSC. So I wouldn't count on this. And then I looked at the rendition. If you can scroll down, it's further down on the page. There's a section for the TSC. There you go. Thank you. And when I started looking, I was like, well, you know, some of this, I don't think it's necessarily something we can do. So like, you know, like recommendation to just to take one. This has to do with terminology, you know, master, slave type of language. And it's worded in a way that it puts us in charge of developing the language. And I said, look, I'm sure people will be willing to support this, but I don't think we have the expertise to develop the language. You need to give us the language. And then we can take on to enforce it or make sure the projects take action with, you know, to comply with this recommendation. But so I quickly told her, look, this is not going to be a quick thing, but I'm happy to bring it up to the attention of the TSC and start a conversation. So that's what I will keep it that today. I see Daniel's great design. I'm happy to have comments now. But I, you know, what she said when I brought that up, she said, well, this is great feedback. Please comment on the page and let's get the conversation going. So, Daniel. So for the four words mentioned, there are already standards evolving for what common replacements are. Blocklist, allowlist, main and replica are the four typical replacements. I don't know of any use of the word slave and any of the software that we have here. I think we all have just duplicate nodes and replicas. But as far as the first three, those are very simple replacements, I think. I mean, we've already done the blocklist, allowlist and basu. And the master would be trickier because we would need to move every once GitHub for master domain. But that's something that GitHub is doing for only projects anyway. So, I mean, it does seem like a fairly straightforward process for TSC to mandate those changes. And then we just need to figure out what we would do to follow up and enforce it. Yep. No, I agree. I don't think it's going to be controversial for the TSC to commit to supporting those. But I think the wording of the proposal need a bit of fine doing. So I, you know, again, we're out of time and Lindsey is not here. So I'm not going to, I don't think there's, it's worth spending much more time on this call now on this, but I invite everybody to look at those offline and comment as they see fit. I agree with you, I don't know. I think we should leverage. I know there are plenty of efforts like this IBM as one and other organizations are looking to that too. So we shouldn't reinvent the wheel there. Okay. So is there any questions or everybody is clear on the intent? So if everybody is clear, I think we can leave it at this. There is really one more agenda item. Arun asked me for some time to talk about collaboration with other Linux Foundation projects. And it could go beyond the Linux Foundation actually, but so I wanted to give him some time to bring that up. I would not consume most of the time here on this call, but this was an idea which I was discussing on rocket chart. And then I also saw Ryan responding to it. And at the same time, we had an announcement going on in the CMCF, where because of some reasons, the runtime, I mean, Docker was being deprecated as a runtime support and Kubernetes. So probably this is where we can bring in some of our counterparts from the other projects within Linux Foundation and probably outside and then walk them over our current structure. For example, I know most of the projects for development purpose, they use, for example, Docker Composer is one of the tools to quickly bring up a network and try out things on their mission. And when they go for production environments, deployments, like for example, the blockchain automation framework, which it intends to do, it may diverge in future, because of these differences. So it's probably a good point to bring them in in RTSMA things and then walk them through these materials. All right, Dano, you didn't mean to speak up? I never took my hand down. Okay, I wasn't sure. I looked up, I said, your hands up, I'm like, okay, I don't know if it's new or it's the same. Okay, but... Or no, I'm from my computer, so I'm raising my hand. I'm just noting that I'm raising my hand. So, I mean, it's interesting. So, Arun, but it seems like that maybe what you were saying there, maybe that's one way to do it. It's actually an interesting thing. It's a topic that might affect multiple projects, for example. In this case, it happened to be about Docker, so maybe we would bring in, and Kubernetes, we could bring in other Linux foundation projects. But I guess at a higher level, it wasn't really about identifying. It was kind of about identifying a common issue or something that we think might be a topic that other projects, that all projects might be interested in, and then finding the appropriate group to speak about that. It could be one of us, could be one of the projects up there in the other projects, or we could bring in externals. Is that more or less what you're asking, or was it really specific to looking at when we should look at stuff that we could get educated from from other Linux foundation groups? I did not, when I was thinking about it, I did not have plans of how the collaboration should be going around, but yeah, this could be a good start to it. I agree with you, the proposal which you made, identifying the common problems are a potential issue which we foresee, and then asking some experts to come in and talk about that, or help us frame some guidelines around that. Yeah, I think I'm trying to figure out a practical way to implement this, because so yeah, you point out the Docker example, that's an easy one, because we all know we all use Docker, and so that's common knowledge. I imagine there may be other things for which it's not that well known, so how would we identify the things that would be of interest to enough people to make it worth the time on the TSE? Could I ask, I'll give a slightly different example, which is that Travis CI recently shut down support for OSS projects like Hyperledger, so that has caused some turbulence for Hyperledger projects, but also among obviously other projects, other open source projects, that as an example, that might be the type of thing where we could get together and reach out and have kind of a cross project, across Hyperledger and other communities, plan, get together, whatever. I don't know when the next Travis CI type thing is going to happen, but that might be the type of thing where the TSE could throw up a flag and say, hey, by the way, we're also dealing with this problem, and let's work on this together. Yeah, I really like the idea, and if the TSE could help address all this situation, I think that'd be very useful. But we have to, I mean, this is another example you bring it up, but until somebody like you brings that up, we can't possibly know. So I think I'm trying to come up with, okay, so how do we go at doing this? I think it is something along the lines of, okay, everybody knows this is something that TSE is willing to tackle, and therefore, if they are aware of any such topic, they should bring it up. So we can say, hey, do we want to do something about this? Is that basically? Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's basically what your summary should be. This is a good example of what people should respond with when our no sends out. Are there any agenda items? Exactly. Thank you, Gary. We also do have a very underused mailing list that people could send this stuff out to. Yeah. Yes, that too. And they're not exclusive, obviously. It could start with an email saying, hey, have you guys seen this? I think this is going to impact quite a few of us. What do we do about it? And then this could lead to the TSE saying, hey, let's organize some meeting or whatever discussion. I think that would be good. Yeah. And I think this is another example just for people to think of. I think there's stuff that may be common across programming languages that people might run into when something changes, like people using Go or C or Java. I think there's all kinds of lowest least common denominator topics like that, that as we find them, it would be just good practice to maybe present, bring up on the mailing list, like you said, and see if others are having that issue, or at least make it worthy of it. So yeah, I like that. Okay. I have a more concrete example of a future thing, which is for the TSE currently. I was planning on scheduling a meeting with the TSE members, but not for a TSE call to discuss upcoming features of LFX, the insights platform, and to give the TSE members a way to kind of feed requirements into the development of that. And this all came about kind of at the same time. I know that Dana put some stuff together, and Tracy put some stuff together, and Hart put some stuff together around what is project health and what is badging and stuff like that. So that is something that is definitely cross-project because these requirements will feed into the website that everyone can see. So that is something that is upcoming, and I'm not sure where would be the place to announce that, other than here. The thing I'm struggling with now is, I wish there was something concrete we could do to capture the intent here so that we could point back to and say, yeah, the TSE said they wanted to do this. Otherwise, it's just something we've said, and we have to rely on people not forgetting. Is there a mechanism we can use to remind us that this is something we actually would like to do? We could add another decision log. We have the backlog. That would say what? Upcoming discussion on, or I'm thinking on the fly here, Arno. Yeah, no, it's okay. I appreciate that. And it's okay. Maybe we don't have to answer that question. Well, maybe you could just go, Arno. Yeah, but you could maybe just say, hey, you know, a good point was, you know, here were some examples, like maybe we just documented as, you know, here are some examples of, you know, cross-cutting, cross-cutting topics that, you know, maybe of interest to, you know, cross the TSE. These are the types of things that may make great, you know, future agenda topics. So I think sometimes we think that maybe we should only talk about things that are cross-cutting like blockchain or whatever, but there are some interesting infrastructure stuff, things, CI type things or whatever, right? And I think sometimes we just forget. So maybe it's like, you know, maybe just, maybe just find a place to put it, like examples of, I don't know, kind of like examples of topics people might find interesting. Yeah, but maybe, maybe, maybe Rai is on the right track. We could, you know, piggyback on top of the decision log and have one entry that serves as, you know, placeholder for interesting topics, you know, for the TSE to consider. And, and it would show up in the backlog and, and it would be a good way to keep an eye on this. And, you know, it's kind of, you know, it's not the intent of the decision log per se, but it's okay. We can, we can use that as a way to get this reminder as a kind of like a post-it note type of thing that doesn't get lost. And it's a wiki page so we can add whatever we want to it. Okay. I mean, we can always experiment with that. But thanks for the suggestion, Arun. I think it is a good idea and I only hear people's interested. So I think we could try to do that. Okay. So we're almost out of time. Is there anything else anybody wants to bring up? I do want to highlight Dana's effort to put the badging proposal together. Thank you for doing that. And so we are going to have a break for the holidays extended break, you could say. And but it would be good if we could get discussions going on on the issues that have been brought up. You might have seen in the backlog has grown up because I have captured, you know, following up the discussion we had last week. I did make sure that we have an entry in the decision log for every one of the issues that were raised that we said, yes, we should look into that. So we will start, you know, in January tackling some of those, I hope. And so it's great that Daniel gave us a head start on the badging with some concrete proposal. That's the best way to make progress is to put pen to paper and get something written down that we can start trashing and then and working on so that eventually we get something that we can live with and approve. So thank you again. And when the meeting is over, I'm going to ask the TSE members, which is basically everyone on the call to like not hang up. Okay. Okay. All right. So thank you all for joining and have a good holiday. We'll talk again in the beginning of the year.