 So, welcome back to the Career Hacking Village. One thing that's always interesting in our community is that we tend to think that recruiters are evil and they're not human and they don't know what they're talking about. So I decided to bring a few of my friends together for some drinks and we're going to talk about finding jobs in this community and also just sort of what is the human side of a recruiter. So I'm going to start off. You guys can't see the gallery screen because I'm just going to keep the speaker view but pass it on over to everyone. I'm going to have my friend Pete with his Iron Maiden shirt on to tell me about what he recruits for and what he's drinking. Yeah, thanks. So I'm Pete. I am a senior recruiter at AWS. Most of what I focus on there is primarily high level architecture for distributed systems, software as a service, anything that has to do with the cloud that's not the kind of pure infrastructure side of the house. And I am drinking as always at about this time on Fridays a Manhattan with an extra splash of cherry juice, which is sort of my signature exclamation point on my drink. Sounds great. And I'm going to invite our Southern Bell, Rachel Boseman to share with us what she's doing and what she's drinking. Absolutely. So I get to help manage our town acquisition program. So we support at CenturyLink. We're hiring everything from finance into the nitty gritty. You name it. We're probably hiring for it. So I am drinking a red wine, one, because they say it's good for your heart, and two, because I'm normally a redhead and I just feel like it, you know, it's a good vibe. So cheers. Next we have Matt Durin, who has been my besides buddy for seven, eight years now. He was the only person that I knew out of besides sort of it took me under his wing and made sure that no one accosted me at my first besides Las Vegas. We've been the bane of each other's existence and good friends ever since. So Matt, what, what do you recruit for and what are you drinking? Well, not only that, I just wanted to make sure you didn't get arrested, kicked out because I thought you were going to arrest them because you were a cop. You look like an undercover cop. So you just, one of these things just doesn't belong right now. I'm kidding, everything belongs to besides and in this community. So thanks for having having me. My name is Matt Durin. I'm a senior manager of talent acquisition at Tenable. And I also handle a lot of our employment branding and recruitment marketing type stuff too. But things that I recruit on or my team recruits for is everything from our platform software engineers. So cloud based stuff, but also on prem building on prem devices. If you've ever heard of Nessus, we build that security center and things like that. Also our researchers, zero day stuff, our, our plug-in writers, things of that nature, back office IT, even a technical support team as well. Just to name a few things. And I am drinking out of my, my Star Wars glass there, this little desk star. I'm drinking a old Forester 1910. It's a very good one. Why I chose that one is it's affordable. And it's not an everyday drinker, but it tastes good, neat. And that's how I take my, my whiskey. So that's me. And that's one thing that I have yet to do is learn how to drink whiskey, even though everyone around me drinks whiskey. So when I was at that first besides Las Vegas first hacker summer camp, about seven, eight years ago, 10 years ago, someone said earlier today that was 10 years ago. And I know that wasn't the case. I met this guy with this really cool accent. And I invited him to come and be on a panel along with Matt. So Chris rides. Thank you for being on the journey with me throughout all of the B sides. What are you recruiting for? And what are you drinking? Thanks, Kathleen. So I've got a cybersecurity staff in a professional services company, Tyro Security. So we staffed just cybersecurity. So I've got a team of people and they focus only in the area in terms of why I'm drinking. You guys were talking about whiskey. I was this close to grabbing. I like Woodford Reserve is my go to bourbon. And I was this close to going for a nice Woodford. But then it was so sunny out here. And I thought I'd do this on my balcony that I went down to the farmers market this morning and got this amazing blood orange juice goes great with some vodka. Thanks. Woo. That sounds great. It goes with that whole decor in the background there, man. It does, doesn't it? Right? You're in a cabana somewhere in Hawaii. Don't lie to us. I wish. I really wish. You need an umbrella in there to really just set it off. I do. Yeah, cherry on top or something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's trying to still sort of do the bachelor thing. Even though he's a new dad. So I'm going to give him grief about trying to do all of that. And me, I'm drinking my red wine. I'm drinking a nice Chianti and you can do the silence of lambs. If you want to, I'm drinking it out of my crystal glasses from a little crystal blower up in Halifax, Nova Scotia family run. They went out of business and then a woman came along and said, this needs to be saved. So I am very proud to drink from her glasses. Anyway, so we're all drinking, we're all having a good time. We're all human beings. I'm going to throw a question out that no one's been prepared for. So Matt, how has recruiting changed since the pandemic came around? Wow. So I think there's a few things. I think the pool got a little bit bigger, right? I mean, the Canada pool and the ability to reach out to somebody and have them respond to that fairly quickly. But I think a lot of the companies out there that, you know, like a LinkedIn or something, they've allowed you to put that open to work on your profile. So it's not as hidden as it once was. It's plain as day right there on the screen and it allows folks to know who's really looking. And a second thing, and hopefully I'm not taking something else's answer, is I think the understanding of why somebody was let go and no longer working is kind of hard to argue these days. In the past, it's always been a bit of a red mark on somebody. You were laid off. So you had to have been on the lower echelon of the team. I think that's kind of been myth busting. Rachel, for a big firm like Century Link, you know, obviously you were always ramping up for projects and stuff. What's going on now for you? Are you slowing down or ramping up? A little bit of both in there and I would agree with what Matt shared. I mean, the pools have gotten bigger, but I've definitely had to seek some guidance and some help. My feelings have been a little hurt as of late. So while the pools are bigger, we're getting ghosted a lot. So we've seen an uptick of folks that are applying with really no intent to follow through. So we've been trying to make a lot of friends that really don't want to be friends. So it's added that complexity of just trying to really find the ones that are genuinely looking for work and not just applying just because it's the vogue thing to do. And Pete, you've got, you know, a lot of ramping up going on with AWS and Amazon and everybody needs the cloud. Everyone needs the cloud. So, you know, how have you changed your strategies? And what are you seeing different in the field right now? Yeah, so my my search strategy has completely changed. There's no there are no more city parameters on my searches. It's wherever I can find a good engineer at that level. I'm going to continue to do that. But I think that the most market thing I've seen is and I've been banging the drum for 10 years on this, that it's an engineering gig. Have code will travel like you do not need to sit next to 10 people in an office to write fantastic code. And it's taken a global pandemic for people to go, oh, my gosh, this code's still good, even though this person wrote it in their basement wearing their pajamas. We have finally started to come around to the fact this is going to be a tipping point. I think of companies saying, you know what, we actually can have remote workers and maybe you can be a little more competitive on pay when you're not spending it on, you know, buildings to house all these people. So, Chris, what's going on for you? So you're a little different. You're helping companies. You're supporting as a service. What's going on in the staffing firms these days? Yeah, it's been interesting. I think initially there was, you know, specifically within cybersecurity, there was an assumption with some companies that the pool was going to get much bigger and that the skills gap was almost going to be bridged. And I think what they've realized is the areas and the industries that were really affected, you know, like the airlines, the cruise lines, people that did make big layoffs and had to lay off their cybersecurity people, they got snapped up really quickly and they were in huge demand, multiple offers. And so we've actually had, we've actually built a lot more new clients. We've had a lot of new clients come to us asking us to help them fill their positions. The thing we're seeing is some companies are really struggling with like it's taking them time to get their their interview process down remotely. It's taking them time worrying about how are we going to all of a sudden we're going to have to onboard some of these people and and how are we going to onboard them? And so it's almost like slowing down a lot, a lot of the parts of the process. So it's been an interesting change. The demand is still there and candidates are I think Rachel talks about ghosting that the candidates are in this strange situation where they might see a few people leave and they start getting worried, so they start talking and then they don't want to. They're worried about moving and being the last person in, you know, in the first person out if something changes. So it's a bit of an unknown. It's a it's a still a strange situation at the moment. Great. So one of the things that we wanted to share is sort of the back end irreverence, the worst case scenarios that a lot of us have seen when we've been talking to job seekers. And one of the the panelists submitted this question. What is the worst email address you have ever seen, Chris? Oh, boy, I can't believe you came to me first. I was I was trying to think I was trying to think of a specific one. I've seen ones with political references in them and religious references in them, neither of which I think is particularly good when you're applying to jobs and using that email address. I don't think I've seen anything. I don't think I've got any funny email stories of all the stories I've got. I don't think I've got any funny email ones, to be honest. I don't think I can't think of any in particular. Maybe talk to the others and I'll continue to think a little bit about that. So the one the one that I've seen a lot is my spam field folder. I've seen those. Yeah, I've seen that one. So Rachel, Rachel, have you seen any funny? I do work in the South. So if we do one thing well, it's let's screw up email addresses. And so this particular one, and I remember it. I remember it so clearly because I took pictures of it and sent it to everybody I knew thinking who in the Hades would send this out. But it was I get down 69 at gmail.com. Super classy and they're free. So please create a free one. You know, Yahoo, Y mail, Gmail. I mean, go big, but don't yeah. Don't get down on your resume with an email. It still lives in infamy. I'm going to borrow your story. Your story is not my story. Absolutely. But I get a lot of big mamas, hot mamas, sexy lady, you know, a lot of those where I'm like, again, they're free. You can just do first name, dot last name at Gmail is free, friends. It's free all day, every day. Yeah. And in that case, you don't have to be, you know, whatever that was 69 dash one or dash two. So if I see it, I know you've attended the hand where we'll talk. I get down 69 job search. You said it was OK to OK to share that story, right? Yeah, yeah, I don't probably be the tamed story that OK. Conference sees I didn't want to break the ice too bad. It's funny. So Pete, you got one? Oh, yeah, I will never forget one of the last agency resumes I got when I was still in the agency side of the house was a Captain Brown, I at Yahoo.com. I will never for as many days as I'm left on this planet, I will never forget that email address. Well, jealous that I can't steal it from my own personal use, but it was pretty great to see on a resume. So so Chris, I'm going to say I don't think you can pass these up. Can you? No chance. These are me. These are my stories like I'm taking these now. I'm sorry, you're going to become like I'm going to be on one of these. And then I say, if you've got any email address, and I say, actually, somebody I know, and that'll be you guys. Let me write that down. Captain Brown. I may have been an excite.com domain. So it's probably available again. Do you know? Do you know? MySpace, maybe that's still around. I don't know. So another great question that we had was, what is the weirdest LinkedIn request for connections that you've ever got? So, Pete, that's a good question. I don't know that the message itself was weird, but I was a little was a little taken aback to get a message where the profile picture was like on a beach in a bikini. It wasn't a complaint, but it just was a little shocking that that was the LinkedIn I expected on Twitter, expected on Instagram, I expected on Facebook or whatever, but LinkedIn was a little bit of a unique place to get it. I mean, turn out to be an extraordinarily qualified candidate who just really chose poorly for their picture. Chris, do you have any interesting ones? This literally happened months and a half ago. I actually had somebody try to connect with me. And when I looked at their profile, they were working for my company. For any mind, my company's pretty small. So they set up a fake profile and were working for Tyro Security. And so I sent them a message saying, congratulations on getting a job. I hadn't even realized that normally I'm involved in that process. And the person actually replied back. They replied back saying like laughing and basically just telling me that worth a try or something like that. And then I bet you can't guess who I am. So then now I'm thinking it's one of my friends or somebody sort of, you know, having a joke, but that was probably the weirdest one. They changed that they changed their profile. I tried to report them and I reported them and they just changed their profile to say that they were working for Amazon after that. Oh, good. Yeah. So, you know, I guess it's easier to hide, at least, right? When you've got that many employees. Indeed. Yeah, the fake employees is great. We have three janitors in India. So that's always interesting. And I think we've got a window washer in the Ukraine. And we've filed the complaints for a long time. But hey, wow, you have the cleanest offices ever. Yeah, especially since we've been remote for 20 years. You know, that's very interesting. They obviously haven't done their OSINT enough. With that kind of staff, though, you could be cleanjobs.net. Oh, what you did there. Bit of a bump. 730 is different from the 930. Try the Veiltipi waitress. So, Matt, what what is the weirdest one you've gotten? Can I change the question a little bit and the weirdest one I've sent? Oh, sure. I sent one to myself one time. Not sure if I feel sad for you or if I want to know about the story. I found my picture on on on a profile. And and and so I sent I sent there. It wasn't my name. It was just my picture, which I thought was weird. And so it's weird, though. I mean, let's be honest before this is it was before it was this was, you know, this was like six months ago. No, I'm kidding. No, this was this is a long time ago. And and I wasn't even working at Temple at the time. And I found my own picture on on a profile. And I just send a connection request to it. I said, you're a good looking guy. Brilliant. I don't I don't think they ever responded, but I just thought it was funny, you know, it'd be great if you could send that request now with your beard to you without your beard. Yes. There's like a weird back to the future reference there somewhere. So clean cut back then it's a movie. Well, considering that that I've known you since your beard was this long. That was back when you worked with the the what was it that little crocodile thing? It was the gecko. That was when my hair was this long. It didn't happen here. It was this long here. Yeah. And I haven't had the beard yet. So yeah. Yep. Yep. You had that anyway. So, Rachel, this was your question. What was the weirdest LinkedIn request you got? So it started out. We'll take you through the journey. It started out genuine request about a job. Turned into, can I meet you at the bar at 7 p.m. And it just it got creepy real quick, real fast and needless to say, didn't get a job, didn't get a date. That never happens to me. No, no. I know, it's shocking. Use Matt's profile picture. I think it's working out for everybody. You know, I thought I thought I'd got lucky when I got a I got a request from it looked like it was baby spice. I was like, no way. Just like she did when she was there. And it turned out it was and this you're going to find this amusing. I put a post on LinkedIn about it because it was baby spices picture. It was a male name and they were working at Amazon. Sorry, no, they were working at Microsoft on AWS. Amazing. It's really, I mean, if that's a good gig, if you can get it. Yeah. That's probably a little harder to explain than like developing in Java and .NET at the same time. I imagine mixing clouds is, I don't know. Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, I'm sure that they're probably messing around with AWS as much as they can. But I don't think officially they've got a department. You know, maybe they do. The weirdest, the weirdest request I get. And it's just it's just really sad. But people drop their entire resume in a LinkedIn request to me and I'm seeing some head noddings. You know, like, here, here's my resume. Find me a job. I'm like, sorry, not the best approach. You definitely need to look at someone's profile and find out what they are. Ninety nine nine percent of the community thinks that I'm a recruiter. I'm not. I will tell you how bad your resume is. But please don't drop your resume and, you know, in there. So I really like this question that, again, Rachel put together, because I didn't think people gave gifts after an interview. So it must be something in the south. So Rachel, tell us about your other hospitality. Come on, friends. So this again, maybe it's just me. I don't know what I'm doing wrong in life. But the one that I remember so clearly, I had everyone, you know, I had just left my office and come back in and everyone's like, have you seen it yet? Have you seen it yet? And I couldn't imagine what I hadn't seen yet. Only to find out I had a whip put on my desk with a note that said, hope you call me daddy. Wow. Yeah. And it was an internal employee who then I had to fire for for this afterwards, who had interviewed for a job. So it's still and I kept the whip for years in my office. And then it became kind of a weird thing in HR, like with a whip. But it was just always a reminder of things not to do and things not to give. So thank you notes. Super great whips, not so cool. So just, you know, not not a great thing to leave a recruiter. It's just it didn't work out for anybody. New rule on this panel. Rachel goes last. Don't invite Rachel. No, no, no, no, she goes last every time. She has the back cleanup for us. It's just going to sound like shit after that. I'm sorry. I'm finishing that question right now because no one is going to be able to beat that one. No, no, no, I'm disappointed. I thought somebody else was going to have it. Maybe maybe I'm doing something completely wrong and very right. It sounds like you're doing very right to me. OK, so new question. Yeah, well, at least they didn't give you a poll or something, you know? Well, you didn't you haven't got to that question yet. Let's get a move on. Rolling halfway through. Hey, I know Meg is going to miss the fact that she was not part of this. So one of our panelists put in a question. What is the worst recruiter pick up line you've seen a recruiter use? I'm going to you, Chris. Oh, my goodness, it's come to me first. Yeah. Well, I feel like and when you say recruiter pick up line, what do you mean, Pete, sorry for clarification? You know, I guess the like what's their their their initial outreach email and potentially subject line. Yeah, their hook line. Well, I guess being an external agency like that, I mean, we're normally going out to them most of the time, right? We do get them to come into us. I don't think we really get we don't get really that many, you know, because we're we're the agency, right? They're always wanting to but for us, we're going out to them. So they usually just reply and I haven't got, oh, my goodness. A lot of terrible crap. I'm going to say to you, Kathy, you have to stop coming to me first. I'm maybe I take inspiration from everybody else's amazing story. At least we're starting to flesh out the order of who should answer the questions, right? Rachel's going to go. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but I need more. Chris, you know, so many other agencies. Come on, you've got to see. Doesn't have to be one subject line out there. I'll tell you. OK, I'll tell you a subject line, an outgoing one. I'm going to slightly change the story and it's completely true story. It's the company I worked for before this and it was somebody in their London office and they used to get a good candidate in and mail them out. And they had a candidate. And again, diversity wise, you know, it was a tech IT. We don't get many women in IT and we used to have like really, really high ratios. If you had a good female candidate, you knew you were going to place them. And so everybody was really pushed to get their resume and get them out the door. Now, you'd hope people would do that respectfully. And one of the consultants sent out an email and it was the lady's name was Debbie and she was a desktop support candidate and the entitled the email outgoing Debbie does desktop. Yeah. Final written warning for that one. Maybe a dated reference. I don't know. I mean, people under the age of maybe 30 or. Yeah, watch it, Matt. Watch it. Yep. Yeah. OK, Matt, I'm going to go to you. Any any good sort of pickup lines, subject headers? I'm going to disappoint you on this one. I don't I don't have one. I haven't I haven't heard one. I know there's there's a bunch out there and I couldn't think of anything before we got on here, but I would I would say anything in all caps is probably the worst thing ever if we're going to get real about advice, if that's what we're here for. All caps, something is is just bad. I've gotten a couple of those and it's I don't know. It's odd. I don't like it. So I wish I had a better story for it, but I don't. So I'm going to get me a job now. Yeah, I get a lot of those. I am job, so that's the worst. So, Pete, and then we're going to have Rachel wrap it up with what is the best pickup line, so Pete. So the best one that I can think of is one that I got from an agency when I was working. One of my old companies may have first gone to the corporate side of things. It was from an agency and it was I want to be inside you. Was the subject line dot, dot, dot. And then I opened the email because of course it could have opened the email. And it said dot, dot, dot. It had an R. Headquarters walking my employee in for their first day. So what the message really was is I want to be in your headquarters walking in my employee for their first day. And I was like, oh, but the subject line was just I want to be inside you. I was a little disappointed when I opened it up. I was really hoping for something a little bit better. But again, clearly, I don't get all these really good ones that some of you guys get. OK, Rachel. Well, first, I'm judging. So let me get off my judgment seat that Pete opened that email. And second, you obviously don't know Pete that well. I was behind the safety and solitude of a VPN at the time. So there you go. OK, you were safe. Well, then my judgment is I will postpone my judgment for later. No, I don't really have I'm kind of with Matt. I don't have anything fantastic. You know, do you come here often? I mean, I don't really hear too many of the I mean, I haven't seen any just other ones that just convince you, oh, I'm so sorry about your loss. You open it up and it's how can we help you fill it? You know, or things like that, but nothing just fantastic. So I'm sorry. I am probably going to be demoted to like third in line now. Now, you're the store is going to carry you all the way through. Yeah, I wish I still had it. Well, that's another story. OK, next question. What is the worst excuse you've heard for missing an interview? Who wants to go first? I mean, that was my question, so it'd be really easy for me to. It's one of the few ones I can go first on. I've got an answer. I've got an answer. I've made the question, so I should have really. I am to probably two of them. One one person we rang and rang and they didn't just didn't turn up for their interview, rang them to confirm before like in the morning, didn't answer us. Rung them again, warned the client. We haven't managed to get hold of them. They might not be able to. They might not be turning up, but we spoke to them yesterday. Fine. Got a phone call in from his from the candidate's brother saying that unfortunately passed away. Then. Week and a half later, that candidate's resume was applying for another job and somebody spoke to them. And it was the same candidate. He'd resurrected. His name wasn't Jesus, but he's resurrected himself in a week and a half and was denying all knowledge of having an interview. Even with like it was such a weird conversation. So we had the resurrected candidate and then also did have a candidate who didn't miss the interview, but and I will say these date back quite a bit. So I feel like I'm dealing with more professional people nowadays. And he celebrated his last day as a company. He had an interview the next day, couldn't get hold of him in the morning. And then he rang us back an hour before his interview and said, oh, I'm really sorry. I had too much to drink last night and I'm running a bit late, but I am going to make make it and I will make it on time. Is there any way you can tell the client I'm a bit disheveled because I'm in last night's suit. So he said it was my last day and I was like, well, honestly, we can delay it. Well, we can delay it. We can do something about it. No, no, I don't want to miss out now. I really want to go. And then I said, or is there anything else we need to tell them? And he said, yeah. So I've got I've got a little bit of claret as we call it. It isn't wine in England, it's blood. I've got some claret down my suit, is what he said. He would actually spent the night in the jail with drunken disorderly and he cut himself and he had blood all over his suit. And he was trying to convince us he still wanted to go to the interview. We needlessly didn't didn't go ahead. So we pulled that one back and changed it. We got a higher determination, though. Yeah, yeah, I mean, he wasn't going to drop out. I mean, at least he really liked the job. Yeah. So Pete, more excuse. So I want to curve ball a little here. Like this person didn't miss the interview. They made it to the interview. It was during college recruiting season and they had they had come in late the night before and had gotten there and so they didn't get a chance to eat. And came in in the morning and they sat down for the interview and was clearly having some discomfort part way through the interview and visibly squirming in the seat, not really able to to maintain their composure, started to sweat a bit and realize that like there was going to be an incident relatively soon if we didn't do something. So that poor person, it turns out, picked up some Taco Bell for breakfast on the way in that day and on the way, making it to the fortress of solitude, if you will, where they would have been safe to do their business. Unfortunately, didn't quite make it to the room where you do that first and had a little bit of an accident all the way down the hallway leading up to was so disheveled in there and the clothes were so ruined that they couldn't leave the bathroom and what happened is that he had to call out for help so that somebody could hear him in the bathroom, which ended up long story short because this could go on for hours. You could actually find it's on Reddit. You called out, wound up long story short. Our CTO had to go and go to the gap and buy him new pants so that he could come out of the bathroom. He came out of the bathroom and out of sheer nicety, they said, do you want to finish the interview? And he's like, no, I'm I'm I'm pretty sure I'm not getting this job. Or would ever take it if you got it. Even if you get offered, are you going to take it? Yeah, but you could find it on Reddit. It was it was an amazing, amazing story. OK, does anyone want to top that or at least equal that? No, but there's one I want to share. I want to show one that we had and it's it's it's in the same guys. It was not because they missed the interview. They didn't even get where I used to work. We used to do a recruiter just a pre interview discussion. You know, 20 minutes just to get him prepped, get him get him ready for who they're going to meet. And this didn't happen to me. It happened to a co-worker. Again, college recruiting. So young folks, please, please know what you're doing and how to accept bad news, she showed up with. Yeah, this was kind of early 2000s, but it looked like she came right out of like a grunge band concert, right? Just the red flannel shirt tied up around, you know, and. It's like, all right, that's we'll talk to you a little bit. But we did. She ended up we ended up not letting her go any further, right? We were like, look, you're not ready for this. I think you need to learn a little bit about interviewing and being ready for interviews. This is not the job at, you know, Walmart or whatever. She said, OK, well, I appreciate that. Can I drop off some flyers for my band? We're playing up the street in a couple of weeks. I'm like, and she left the whole stack of flyers with us for her band. Like, it's the weirdest thing we ever saw. It's not it's not pooped down the hall. Sorry, Pete, but I don't have crap either, but I do have blood. I mean, I had a blood that counts. OK, you got you got to share that, Rachel. She beat her ex-husband with a golf club because found him with another woman ended up in jail and called from jail her one phone call to let me know she was going to be late, but she would be bailed out. Wow. So the moral of the stories here is that if you go to jail, you clearly want the job. And you make sure you have your recruiter's number as your only phone call. Just saying. Yeah. That is the number one like role of that story. And she didn't she didn't get the job. Oh, come on. Wasted phone call. Yeah, you know, in my head, I'm like, oh, please, Lord, don't make her get out of jail. She forgot she only had one phone call. She was supposed to be calling to get her bail. Thank you. And then she was stuck. Thank you. And it was it was a precious moment. Needless to say, this is another candidate that I followed in the news and continued to beat her husband. So great story. I don't know. Welcome to Louisiana. Got to have a passport. Rachel would be a great addition to this team. Yes. So. OK, I am going to move on to our next question, which is, what is the worst interview faux pas you have ever seen? Rachel, I'm going to kick it off with you so that you set the standard for everyone else. Well, I am afraid I am going to set this bar low. But I'm going to try real hard of probably the one that sticks out so much in my mind was an interview that I was participating in. And the gentleman was angry at Laugh. He was angry that he woke up in the morning. He was angry that he drove his car to the interview. He was angry about everything to the point where he was coming across the table at us with anger about everything. And then at the end of the interview, wanted to talk a lot about how much the job was going to pay and everything else. And we were like, we are fearing for our lives at this moment because there was a threat against us if we didn't hire him, a threat against the company. If we didn't hire him and everything else. But then he wanted to make sure that we were very clear on what his salary expectations were and when could he start? So that was probably the one that sticks out the most was just the sheer anger talking about the things he wanted to do to his former employer and how he was going to execute these very vivid conversations about how that should have ended. So we did have to call the police afterwards because there were very visible threats against his previous employer. And I didn't want to walk out to my car by myself that night. So it was not a great time. And again, moral of the story, he didn't get the job. So, Chris, any any good ones to tell? I mean, a couple of times we've seen that couple of times we've had managers actually interview people for the completely wrong job. And that's so like we get this feedback and it doesn't make any sense. And then we speak to them and it's it has happened more than once. And then the manager's like, oh, oh, I interviewed them for this job. I got them mixed up with this other candidate. And so it's I mean, dealing with that all out of that was is absolutely no fun. I mean, it must be the worst. Can you imagine you're getting asking all these questions and it's not even for your job, you can't answer any of them. You're an expert in your field. And you know, why did I even ask him? It is. Yeah. So that was that's probably the biggest faux pas. And I see it doesn't happen just once, unfortunately. Yeah, that's probably that's probably the most awkward one to deal with. Pete. I think the weirdest thing I've seen happen in an interview that I sort of shook my head out as I was interviewing somebody. So it's an experienced person. I mean, good solid 15, 20 years of experience. And he I mean, I had noticed that he didn't have any socks on with his suit. Just fine. Like Don Johnson did it. You do your thing. But he took his shoes off in the middle of the interview and like put his leg up, you know, crossed his legs. And I mean, I might have been OK with it if you'd had like a manny petty that day, but that was that was not the case. And it was not pleasant. And I actually had to stop things. I'm all for your comfort and you're here, you know, you're how you want to live. But you got to put your shoes back on because we were in a nine by nine room and it was it was getting a little raunchy in there. So I'm just going to say I was in the same boat, but the person was picking their toenails. Yes, I had one of those. That was going to be one of my stories. I was going to ask if they if they picked their toenails while I did it. Yeah, go for it, Matt. No, I won't go there because he told the story. Just change the cross their legs to to pick their toenails the whole time. But so I'll I'll I'll do another one. And this is on a hiring manager side. You know, our level and hiring managers are real quick on on getting that feedback back to us. And when you got a hiring manager who knows how to use the applicant tracking system and knows what the buttons are and what they do, I love that. All right, just just for hiring managers out there, I really appreciate when you know how to use the system. I just wish that you would wait more than 15 minutes after the interview. And maybe even after the person's driven away from the building to reject them and to know that you can actually send the rejection yourself because we had that happen. And the person got the rejection letter. It was just a stupid templated rejection letter, right? I'm like, why would you do that? The person came back because he hadn't even left the parking lot yet. Hadn't left the parking lot yet and came back upstairs and asked to talk to me. I'm like, yeah, I just got this email from from your system. And it says I was rejected. But it was just I had to sit there and I haven't even had a chance to debrief with the person yet. I didn't even know what I thought the guy came back because he was he forgot something or or whatever it was. And yeah, he wanted to know right then and there why he was rejected. And I had to actually go find the manager and find out what the reasons were. And they weren't really good reasons either. So I had to kind of figure out what it was that I could say to this person. And it really put me in a bad spot that day. Nothing like tap dancing for somebody else's mistake. Yep. So we've talked a lot about what candidates have done wrong. We've talked a little bit about sort of our processes that might not go well. Just wanted to go around the room and sort of talk about, you know, the other is Matt was kicking off there that the hiring managers who are the people that sort of do the final interviewing. What are some of the mistakes that you have seen them make? Matt had a really good one. Rachel, Chris, Pete, who wants to kick off next? You guys, you internal guys must have some good ones. I mean, my interview is right. Yeah, my interviewing that, yeah, I think just interviewing the people for the wrong jobs is always like that's always the worst than the worst one I've had to deal with. Yeah, you got you internal guys must have some good ones. Surely I definitely talk about yeah. Yeah, I worked for well, I work for a company if I give too much details, it'll give it away, but it's not my current company. But I worked for a company where I had a candidate. I'm fairly senior level candidate. Call me after the interview, like two hours after it was over. And I said, OK, well, I don't have the feedback. And he's like, I don't care about the feedback. He's like, I just have to ask you a question. So OK, is it possible that insert hiring manager's name here was drunk during my interview? I said, I'm not sure how you mean. Like my mentality went, I'm not sure how you mean. It was a 10 o'clock AM interview. Like, what do you mean? He's like, no, no, no, no, I come from a long line of alcoholics. And I'm pretty sure I know what somebody who's been drinking looks like. And I'm like, oh, I said, well, yeah, me too. But like it's 10 a.m. And he said, no, about four weeks later, we did let that hiring manager go because apparently for weeks on end was showing up to work drunk and just masquerading through the day on that. So note to self, like don't interview people when you're drunk. We did not like we won't be interviewing anybody right now is what you're saying. Yeah, hopefully not. No interviewing. Got it. So, Rachel, any any good hiring manager? You know, I love the ones that really want to pull back the layers and better understand the candidate by asking questions about. So when are you do and the person is not pregnant? That was a super fun one. Or, you know, tell me more about why you can't work because of your children or all of the things that we're like, you said what? You know, those are the ones that stick out the most of my mind. And even sitting in with hiring managers on interviews, I'm always taken back at the liberties sometimes of just, well, I just I have it in my gut. And I'm like, no, it's actually written down. You just need to read it. That's what we need your gut to be. And so I think that's the piece that's always the most interesting for me is the gut questions that come out that completely put you in a litigious spot in a spot where you're like, we're just not making good decisions right now, friends. And so I think those are the ones that stick out the most. But the one that was clearly not pregnant and asked when she was due, I had to deescalate that one. And that was not fun. So don't ever ask, even if you think don't don't ask. It sounded it sounded vice to make sure hiring managers know, like, don't type anything out that you don't want to repeat in court. Thank you, but it does not stop at the hiring manager. That's not that your entire interview team, because some of those people are absolutely staff level, you know, software engineer, whatever level you are. Because we let's say we this is before for tenable, somebody was was diagnosing somebody like mentally in their feedback evaluation form. And it was in the wreck in writing. Yeah. As you read it, you're like, help me understand. That's the question that always comes up. Help me understand what you were thinking when you wrote this down. But but can they code? Right. Crazy all day. Just got a code. So guys, they're hearts. Bless their heart. I actually have the gardening gun. Bless your heart trivia. So Rachel, we might have to play that. Yeah, we're both drinking red wine. We're we're good kindred spirits here. We're good there. So guys, ladies, lady, we're done. You know, we've gotten so I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to do around Robin, I'm going to have the lady go last. But I want each one of you to give a top tip to the job seekers in the community on what they need to do in their job search. So Chris, you're first. Be honest. Don't bother lying. That's it. Matt, just be honest. Know what you're applying to. You know, there's a lot of zero applicants out there that apply to every single job that a particular company wants. I understand you want a job and you need a job or you're trying to find something so you're not the last person in a sinking ship. But apply to something that you know you can you can do most of the job with. You have most of the skills to do the job and just be interested in. Pete, just have somebody get a second set of eyeballs in your resume. None of us are published writers to my knowledge. So get a second, you know, set of eyes in your resume just to get it looked at to make sure everything looks the way that it should. It's hard to write a document like that and stare at it after a while. It all starts to look the same. So, you know, just, you know, once over, I think is helpful. And Rachel. Simple. We're going to spend a little bit of time looking at each resume. When you put your pictures and there's colors and there's too many cutesy tootsies on there, we get lost. So just keep it simple. Tell us what you can do and what we're applying for and or what you're applying for. And everyone's life is much simpler. So I want to thank all of my friends, Pete, Rachel, Matt and Chris for coming together on a Friday night to have a few drinks and share that recruiters are humans too. They want to be your best friends, want to be your advocates. So take the time, reach out to a recruiter. Make sure you have recruiters in your network because they are the people that are going to advocate for you to find the next best job. And remember that we have recruiters in resume review and we have people who are in career coaching that can help you. So thank you, everyone, for coming to Career Hacking Village and have a great evening. Cheers. Thank you.