 It's still plus politics, now commentators are demanding an investigation of the relationship between some governors and a notorious banditry kingpin, Belutorji. After pictures of the governors and the confessed associates of the bandits emerged on social media. In a picture with Musa Kamarawa are the governors of Zamfara and Sakoto Belumatawale and Aminu Tamua. With the deputy governor of Sakoto, Meina Dania, Zamfara and Sakoto are two of the northwest states under attack by bandits in which hundreds of people have been killed and thousands displaced. While commenting on the issue, a popular Islamic scholar in Sakoto state who has been vocal against banditry, Motala Asada, said there are many influential people supporting bandits who at the same time are enjoying government support. Joining us to discuss this is Balazaka, he is a security analyst and Laddick Wood Johnson, a legal practitioner who has been here in the studio with us. Thank you so much for joining us Mr. Zaka. Thank you. I'm going to start with you because this is your 40. Are you surprised by this expose, by premium times newspaper about this governor's somewhat allegedly in bed with these so-called kidnap or banditry kingpins or is this an expose worth investigating? First of all, I am not surprised by the pictures I have seen but I am surprised and a bit disappointed by the coloration or interpretation that was given to the pictures. To the best of my understanding, the interpretation that was given to the pictures was that some leaders in the northern parts of Nigeria were fraternizing or could get close and even take or snap pictures with bandits. The only thing I can say is I think there has been a misinterpretation for those who are from the northern parts of Nigeria or have stayed very long in the northern parts of Nigeria. They will agree with me that in recent time, probably with the recent generation of Nigerians, there has been an abuse and mismanagement of hospitalities that have been rendered by the northerners or northern leaders. And I will just give you a simple example. If you look at northern leaders right from the days of people like Tafar Balewa, if you have seen some pictures of Tafar Balewa, you will see him sitting beside a radio on a mat with children and probably with sugar cane. It was like that. They have been so simple like that. The same thing with people like Amadu Bello, Aminukano, Shagari, and Gowon. If anybody has met people like that, but the only living person I can say today, you know, people like Gowon, when you go close to them, you will be shocked at how simple these people look. They are ready to snap pictures with you unless you see them in their offices. You will not know that some of them are governors, presidents, generals, and controllers. But unfortunately, the recent crop of Nigerians have abused those privileges and have now turned out to become rascals like these bandits that we are seeing. And if people don't know, they will think some of those leaders are harboring them. But in real sense, they are abused. I'm sorry to speak over you. Can I comment? You know the leaders. I'm trying to, I'm following you, but for example, let's, I want to throw the stone as far as the U.S., you're telling me that even if Joe Biden doesn't know, let's say, an al-Qaeda terrorist in person, that his security officials, the people that are around him would let him take a photo with a bandit or let's say a terrorist. And then because he's a hospitable president, he will take these photos. And then nothing, there should be nothing to it. People would not paint a terrible picture of it because the governor or the president was a hospitable person. I don't know if that excuse sits well with me. And I'm not in any way also trying to hang these governors on a cross. But I'm wondering why we would be so ignorant to allow these kinds of pictures be taken in the first instance. Thank you for that excellent question. And this is what I want to let you know, because I'm from the North. I grew up in Maiduguri, principally the area where Shekau came from. I used to enjoy the same kind of hospitalities in the days of the former old late Shekau of Borno El Kanemi. When I was a teenager, I was staying in Sokoto. So all this, most of this area, I was staying around Kalambena area. So I know this Talata Maffara area, I know this Dengeshuni area, I know the other areas. The truth is this, somehow somewhere, you know, because of the way the northern part of the country was hospitable, a lot of people or some generation of illegal immigrants, you know, took advantage, either because of cultural affiliation or religious affiliation or tribal affiliation and infiltrated Nigeria. And many of them, maybe old generation, but their children are those who today are vampires, they are chameleons, they are leprosy, they are venomous. All I can tell you is this is the reason why I prefer citizenship to anything called religion or tribe or other things. And this is my example I will give. Whether you like, be as christianic as anything, you will never be allowed in two row or the Vatican City or into Israel if there is no proper documentation. The same thing, no matter how Islamic tendencies are, if you are not a citizen of Saudi Arabia, if you want to get to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, you must be properly profiled. And unfortunately in Nigeria, especially the northern flank, at a point, if because of either religious affiliation or tribal affiliation, a lot of people were illegally allowed to come in, get accommodated and today they are the vampires, the venoms and the terrorists that are trying to destroy Nigeria, especially the northern parts of Nigeria. Okay, I'm going to come back to you. Mr Johnson, it's an earful, you know, he's painted a picture. But what are your thoughts on it? Because this doesn't look good in any way. I mean, no matter how we try to paint it. I understand what he said. Definitely. And I agree with the facts that people, especially in the northern parts of the country, allowed to ingress and aggress the country as they choose. The borders are porous. However, I believe that your question was regarding should these pictures be investigated? And I think so. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that, oh, automatically it means that these governors were fraternizing with representatives of bandits or whatever. Well, I mean, in the case of one for, I think, Beluturuji, there was a piece of cord at some point. Exactly, my take is that we must look at it from the point of view that governors, yes, they say they control the police, but they don't, really. They definitely do not control the Nigerian army. And so when these states were being attacked, they're still being attacked. When they were being attacked, the governors, having called on the federal government several times, had to begin to try to negotiate. Now, if you're a state governor and someone says, look, I can reach out to these people, then he says, OK, the police cannot cope. The military is overstretched. My people are being killed. Reach out to them. And if he comes back successfully, he says, the 100 people that were kidnapped have been released because you've released his father. The governor is bound to sit down and say, oh, let's take a picture together or whatever. At that stage, he is helping the state government in quotes. Now, unknown to some of these governors, it is possible. I have no security intelligence report. It is possible that it's a good business. Say, we'll do the kidnapping. You'll be on the inside talking to these people and settling these disputes. It can be that. It could be something else. But after a while, they've seen that naturally, when you're paying them, when you pay a terrorist, you pay whatever. You'll continue. Let me kidnap these 50 students. I'll come up with 200 million. Who will stop? No one. So I think that is where they are at and that they have realized that the so-called negotiators are maybe in bed with those out in the bushes. Well, I mean, a senior lecturer at the Ustman Danfordia University in Sakoto who's from Shinkafi in Zamfara, his name is Tijani Salu, said the pictures show that Mr. Kamarawa is not a normal criminal. He said, and I quote, we have raised our concerns regarding banditry in the Northwest. It is clearly showing that the highly celebrated young man, Musa Kamarawa, is well connected in his business. He said, I request the concerned security agents to interrogate him further, to bring to book anyone associated with him in this business, no matter how highly placed they are. And just as you said, unknown to the governor, I mean, let's not even go too far. The former president, Goodlock Jonathan, had at many opportunities said that there are people who aid and a big Boko Haram in his government, so did President Mahmoud Buhari. So it should be investigated, right? No, definitely it should be. And at each stage, in fact, the security forces, intelligence forces, sorry, shouldn't even be waiting for people to call out and say, oh, investigate this. Such things should be investigated consistently. You might be president of a country and not have the interest of that country at heart. You might be governor and not have the interest of your state at heart, or your own pecuniary interests may overshadow the interests of the citizens of your state. That is why you have the DSS, spend their time chasing someone making a political statement. That's the problem of the thing in this, one of the problems. There are the armies of a stretch because of what they are busy doing in the east. You understand, the DSS as well. These are the things, okay, they are negotiating and whatever. Without letting the governor know, you should be finding out these people that have so-called coming to say, oh, a Greek gift. Finally, Mr. Zaka, because we're almost out of time, again, this is your expertise, you're a security person. The response of the governor of Zampara, Masawale, is spokesperson, Zilani Bapa. He said that this uproar is very unnecessary because the pictures were taken during a piece called Rebandes. But then he goes further to say that he thinks that it's not worth the response from the government, but that okay, it is okay to respond. His excellency had engaged in a dialogue with good intentions because he was disturbed by the incestant killing of the people. They reached out for a dialogue, but they're not even certain if the people they were reaching out to had accepted the dialogue. But they do not think that this is a conversation that needs to be had. But as a security person and listening to what Mr. Johnson has said, going forward, what should be the case? Excellent. And in line with Mr. Johnson, like he said, not to the governors, but moving forward like you rightly said, citizenship should come before tribal relevance or even religious relevance. Because what we later discovered was maybe a generation from before now of people like Turgis' parents, they were probably not even Nigerians, they were no citizens, but they were probably allowed to be here because of some other affiliation. But today we've discovered that they are chameleons, they are monsters, and they have now become terrorists. And when you talk about terrorists, you are talking about the people that adopt the weapon of radicalism, propaganda, and indoctrination, and their intention is to render any government lawless, to render the leaders powerless and irrelevant, and then destroy that country. We've seen it now in Turgis. As you can see, the governor of Sokoto State is regretting, haven't even listed before, the governor of Zamfara is regretting, the governor of Kaduna State, the governor of even Kasuna State, they are regretting that initially they even gave attention, thinking they were dealing with reasonable people, or maybe reasonable headers, not knowing that they were chameleons, they are lepros and they are venomous. Okay. Well, I want to say thank you very much. Balazaka is a security analyst and Ladik Badranson is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Well, for staying with us, Plus Politics Returns tomorrow at 7 p.m., don't forget you can watch a replay of this program on YouTube, our YouTube channels are Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Mary Anakum. Thank you for watching. Do have a good evening.