 I'm very pleased to welcome you for this IINA webinar, which is co-organized with the European Parliament Information Office in Ireland. And we're delighted to be joined today by Marit McGinnis, MEP, First Vice President of the European Parliament, who has been generous enough to take time out of her schedule to speak to us. Vice President McGinnis will speak to us for 20 minutes, 25 minutes or so, and then we will go to question and answers with our audience. You will be able to join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should see on your screen, and please feel free to send your questions in throughout the session as they occur to you, and then we will come to them once Vice President McGinnis has finished her presentation. Could I remind you that today's presentation and the question and answer are both on the record? And please feel free to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IIA. So let me now introduce Vice President McGinnis, who is back in Brussels for the first time this week, having been away from Brussels as everybody was in quarantine in their home areas. Marit McGinnis, MEP, is the First Vice President of the European Parliament and represented with the Midlands-Northwest constituency, and she was first elected as an MEP in 2004 and was re-elected for a fourth term in 2019. And in her role as First Vice President, she's responsible for overseeing relations with national parliaments and the administrative consequences of Brexit, among others. And Ms. McGinnis is also the first replacement for chairing debates and votes in the parliament when the President is absent. The Vice President is a member of a number of parliamentary committees, including the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, the Parliament's Bureau and the European Economic Area Joint Parliamentary Committee. She's also a substitute member of the Constitutional Affairs Committee, the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety Committee, and the Delegation for Relations with Mercasur. And Vice President McGinnis's promise, prominence in the parliament, on her position on the Constitutional Affairs Committee, the committee responsible for overseeing the Brexit process, has resulted in her becoming a regular commentator on Brexit developments in both the national and the international media. She is an agricultural economist by profession and as a result she was selected as the European People's Party lead negotiator for the reform of the common agricultural policy. So it is in this timely event the Vice President will discuss the role of the European Parliament in the EU's response to the crisis and the part it plays in laying the foundation for the EU's long-term recovery. I know it's a wide-ranging address so we look forward to hearing you Vice President and the floor is yours. Well first of all thank you very much for the introduction and the invitation. I think these events have been super. I've been logging in and listening to many of your events and I think that for lots of people it's been a great way to work and learn at the same time so I hope I can add to that conversation and add value. I think I'll start with the reality of how we're working because as you rightly said in the introduction this is my first week back in Brussels. In early March we this pandemic had begun to take a foothold and there were some very big decisions taken here in the parliament by the president and very brave decisions when he decided to cancel our travels to Strasbourg and indeed to curtail our meetings in Brussels and to urge people to return to their own member states. And I remember at the time thinking this won't last very long or not being sure of the outcome but I now reflect very well that those were important decisions. We were coming from so many different places that it was important that we as parliamentarians returned to our member state and were able to I suppose be safe with our own families but also give some lead to others in this time of crisis. What's been really interesting since March is how this parliament has responded both technically and politically to the realities of not being physically present. I took a flight on Monday morning a very empty flight to Brussels where wore my mask and indeed I have a mask here with me because here in the parliament we are required to wear masks when we're not speaking so when we're walking around this building we wear a mask and we have lots of signs to warn us about COVID-19 but to come back to the parliament and how we functioned since this pandemic in the early days it was a little bit stressful because our technology wasn't ready but I would say within seven to ten days the administration and our IT people had put in place the technology where I could work from my home in County Meath or my colleagues in Germany could do the same or in Italy or wherever they were based we could contribute. There were some colleagues who were physically present and they were coming into the parliament but in very limited numbers and you know by the time I left my home to come out here and I'm going to be staying over the weekend and into next week for the plenary session we were able to contribute to all committee meetings and to vote in committee we were able to vote in plenary but we could not contribute to the debate but I think it was a real tribute to the parliament here that we could do that and we had the added complication but also an added importance of having translation and interpretation so that we could have good conversations with all our colleagues in the language that they could freely use so that really worked and I think we will probably learn a lot of lessons from that experience which I hope will guide us when things return to whatever sort of normal they will return to and just on that point I think that even over the summer months and into the autumn we are all going to be mindful that coronavirus or COVID-19 is present and yes member states are coping well and indeed the story from Ireland is quite good but that we can't be complacent and I've been saying it here to some of my colleagues who perhaps are not wearing the mask in the appropriate way that really it needs to be over your nose not under so these are the learning points but I think from a parliament point of view and from the bureau that I sit on I'm very pleased that we could continue to function as a political group because we are responsible for overseeing what the commission does and linking with the council so the parliament did not go into hibernation in fact it went into overdrive to make sure that we worked so we had to come and vote remotely on releasing of emergency funds on important resolutions and we have done that and I think we will continue to do that next week and next week it will be a very strong parliamentary agenda I think there will be more colleagues who will come from their member states but there will still be many who will be able to vote from afar there has been a debate then about should we go back to the way we were in terms of our functioning and I think when it comes to plenary the physical presence of members is important I also think that when it comes to other parliaments in my work with national parliaments I'm going to be looking at how parliaments responded the interaction between parliament and government and indeed how people who want to make a point or a protest how that can happen in a pandemic and you reflected there that 2019 I was re-elected and all our colleagues were elected here to the European Parliament and I wonder out loud what would have happened if the pandemic occurred just in the moment of an election and I think these are things we probably will start preparing for now that we have this warning behind us so that's just how we structured ourselves and how we're allowed if you like or can be back here in Brussels and how we are functioning and I think to the credit of all those involved I'm pleased that it has worked I want to move then to probably the issue which is at the core of how Europe will be after this pandemic and that relates to the recovery this if you like next generation EU and I think when the president of the commission announced this major package with significant funding it did if you like quell some of the anxiety about how the European Union had responded to the crisis in the beginning where there was a lot of if you like member states doing their own thing border closures etc so I think that the announcement was strong it was a big ambitious plan it involves if you like some clever rearranging of the multi-annual financial framework the european budget which has to kick in from 2021 but also looking at how the european union can leverage its capacity to borrow money at really low interest rates and then support those member states that are in need of support those worst hit if you like by the crisis and the figures you know I mean they go into the billions but what's been interesting now is that the discussion at member state level both within member states between member states and in this house here the european parliament there's some discussion about the balance between loans and grants because it favors grants rather than loans and that's of more benefit to those countries that have suffered most there's a question of the repayment should it happen sooner or should it be extended and there is also this big question which hung over the mff anyway about will those reluctant member states be willing to contribute more because we are dealing with this crisis so I think the announcement was important I think now we're into if you like the real hard graft of trying to get this over the line and that will involve a lot of conversations at leader's level it will involve a lot of conversations here within political groups and then there will be the wider parliamentary if you like support for this so the detail I think has got to be fleshed out but ultimately it would see the european budget the budget that people call on whether it's for agriculture or research or for cohesion being strengthened in the initial years to give that support that's necessary in those early years because the problem is now and then leveraging that to roll out repayment and even amongst my own colleagues when we have started to discuss the data there are differences of view as to how that should be handled and I'm sure there will be some questions around that but what's been really important I think is that the direction in which the money will flow and how it is spent there is no shying away if you like from the overarching growth strategy which existed before COVID-19 which is the european green deal essentially making sure that europe deals with the climate issue honors our commitments under the paris agreement and reorientates all of our sectors in that direction and that includes also the digitalization of the european economy so perhaps there was an expectation that with this crisis we would forget all about that and just try and get ourselves back to some sort of normality but that's not the case and I think there is good support for that that we keep on the track but obviously we will need more funding to keep ourselves on that track and to make sure that we actually achieve those targets it will be more difficult now because member states are in a more difficult situation economically and unemployment is affecting the use which I think is a particular issue that we really do have to address I want to move briefly on to the topic of brexit it is very current although there were weeks and months there where nobody really spoke about it because if you like it's star rating as the only news item was taken by the tragedy of the coronavirus pandemic and that just wasn't impacting just in europe it's impacting very seriously in the united kingdom and you know for somebody who you know ate slept and and breathed brexit for the last couple of years it's been interesting how your mind can be thrown completely away from that because ultimately health was everything and we were faced with this public health crisis but of course brexit is still there and it is at a very delicate situation and just to reflect on the realities it took three years three prime ministers and a lot of you know late discussion to get the withdrawal agreement over the line and there were only three issues now they weren't small issues they were huge and important but it did take that length of time and a lot of difficult politics to get it over the line and I think our focus is on ensuring that that is fully implemented and I think today there have been some useful talks led by commissioner sefkovic on that issue of implementation of the withdrawal agreement and now we're looking at the future I'd rather we were still in january looking at the future but we're now into june and there's not many months left in order for us to reach a trade agreement with the united kingdom and I think michelle barney who's a man who speaks very clearly and without any drama has been very clear that he is not optimistic and that on many points which were agreed in the political declaration with the united kingdom and signed up to by the british prime minister we have not seen the progress to date that we would need to see and he has gone through list upon list of what is not happening yesterday evening was interesting I got some calls from british media saying oh there's a big conference on monday taking place between the leaders the EU leaders including our president here president sasoli the president of commission and the president of the council with the british prime minister boris johnson and I think that is important it is this high-level conference that was muted for june and I suppose we all would have hope or expectation that on monday there would be if you like a political push behind the negotiations which have been sluggish to date now I think to be fair to all negotiators the atmosphere or the pandemic has not helped in so far as it's been difficult to meet face to face and we know that at the IIEA it's been nice to meet face to face but this also is good that we can you know have our conversations remotely I think when you're dealing with delicate negotiations body language is hugely important the cup of coffee around quietly or the whisper and it's impossible to do that on a video it just doesn't work so maybe if things are better in terms of controlling the coronavirus pandemic we will be able to see a return to more face to face meetings but we also would need more if you're like a reality check for the united kingdom to understand the time limitations to also live up to what was agreed in the political declaration and why it doesn't have the same stance as the legal text of the withdrawal agreement it was signed up to by all of us and I think in terms of trust in the negotiations we would hope that what was signed up to would at least be followed through in the detail because there are many many difficult areas and you know we're into the month of june and we don't see any progress in those particularly difficult areas and I suppose to sum it up for me these negotiations are incredibly difficult because they're unpicking what I would regard as what's best in class membership of the single market and customs union altogether and trying to facilitate an ex-member of the european union that is seeking to retain the best of all of the above but none of the if you like obligations of being in a customs union and a single market and therefore when the word cherry picking was reused yesterday it is an appropriate one and I think we are mindful here in the parliament as we move next week to debate this issue and indeed to vote on a resolution that we want an agreement with the united kingdom there is no one in the EU that does not want an agreement but we do want it to adhere to our commitments to each other made in the political declaration and I suppose to the reality that the european union of 27 remains strong in its core values and the and the issues we stand if you like close to and not willing to compromise those because there is a desire for the united kingdom to have bits and pieces of what it would like to choose so I would wish we had more progress to report but I remain as as Michelle Barney I use those words not optimistic but not pessimistic and I think there is a shade of great difference in between those two things but when it comes to fisheries agriculture level playing field state aid all of these things matter and you know there would be nothing worse than a bad deal now because it would lead to very bad relationships thereafter so I think we need to persist with what is currently the the the stance we are taking but also the mandate that Michelle Barney has I also think we're very lucky to have him I think he has been a consistent solid negotiator and extremely transparent and has spent time upon time giving the details of his conversations with all of us I want to come back to linking the recovery and the way of the future and to talk about climate law the green deal including in that farm to folk strategy and biodiversity because if you look at even if you listen to the public debate or even watching social media because people have been locked down it's been quite interesting that there's been if you like a greater interest in what's happening in nature or the world about us it's been quite an interesting phenomenon and I think we've all been part of that maybe because it was less noise or intrusion and we had to settle ourselves to just being where we are and taking notice of what's around us in that context the European Union climate law and I'm the shadow rapporteur for the EPP on this and we'll be negotiating it right up and through the summer you know it requires and has committed to the European Union to climate neutrality by 2050 it is not that long down the road I will probably not see it but many of you will but it is a big commitment and what the climate law is hoping to do is to set benchmarks along that path if you like so currently the target is to reduce by 40 percent our emissions by 2030 that is likely to increase and there are different views as to how significant the increase should be some would see 65 percent others would like to await the impact assessment which will be available in September which may point around 50 to 55 percent but the direction of travel is clearly there and therefore it requires all sectors to reorientate how they produce looking at circular economy looking at all of these things that have been happening anyway but perhaps we're going to have to accelerate them and also then pulling on the tools that will be available in the recovery package and the finance in order to make sure that we can deliver on those targets I think it's interesting also that member states are very different starting points I mean if you take the case that agriculture emissions which are a big discussion point in Ireland you know in in Europe they're 10 percent across the board in Ireland 30 percent and indeed the Commission often point out that within that 10 percent livestock emissions account for 70 percent of that and therefore this additional focus on livestock is part of this conversation it can be a very difficult conversation and there are some member states for example Denmark who will seek to reduce by 70 percent by 2030 there are other member states like Poland that have a very high fossil fuel demand and whose population use fuel for heat etc and they will find it more difficult to reach those targets so while some members in this house would like to see all member states climate neutral by 2050 I think it will be more realistic to say that Europe is climate neutral by 2050 but that all should at least move in that direction and just let me move then to some of the specifics around if you like land use farm to fork strategy and biodiversity and linking it with my comment about us all becoming you know more tuned in to what's going on around us there has been over years it's not just now a concern about the loss of biodiversity I think a lot of conversation around the loss of bees for example although I noticed lots of them in the gardens and in the fields which is good to report but it is a concern about nature and they need to bring nature back and to revive it and also to to make sure that sustainability is the heart is at the heart of everything we do and that links into this very detailed farm to fork strategy which requires I think several readings to take it from farm to fork I think it's really important for Ireland because while we have local market we do rely on a wider market the European Union market and beyond because we produce so much food and therefore I think we need to look very carefully at how our agriculture sector from farm to fork becomes more sustainable and indeed how the concept of local food is not just limited to the parish but also that local food is European and that Ireland can respond to those if you like need from some consumers now but perhaps more in the future to know where their food comes from how it is produced but the commission is going very far in this strategy there are strict targets being set down at the farm level around use of agrochemicals fertilizers around antimicrobials and right through then to look at sustainability issues in the food supply chain but not as many targets there so we will have to rebalance that then there is this always contentious issue about nutrition and claims on packages for consumers to make those informed choices and I expect a big debate around that because I have to say I'm back to butter for a long number of years now I really do like butter on my spuds but I don't eat 20 spuds or a pound of butter at a time so I it's about you know how we moderate diet but there are issues around health in Europe and indeed Ireland around malnutrition and around obesity so this is a very far-reaching paper and I think some of it is implementable but we will here in the parliament be having our view and that will begin immediately which brings me to an issue which has perhaps dogged us here in the parliament and is running for too long in my view that is reforming the common agriculture policy I was deeply involved in the previous reforms and indeed Simon Coveney was the minister responsible at the time are now thornished and I'm concerned this week for example that the negotiations between the groups was proceeding but has now stalled so I'm a little concerned that that might mean a huge delay there may also be part of a strategic move by some groups to say well look the farm to fork and biodiversity strategy need to be stitched into capper form and goodness me how will that be done so I think there are some uncertainties there and I think from the farming point of view we have voted through a transitional measure so we weren't clear on the budget or on the detail so there is at least a provision for the next year or two a transition from the existing cap towards the new reform but I would wish there were more certainty around that but I'm afraid even at the end of this week I fear there is more uncertainty the last point and I will be brief on this is this idea of a conference on the future of Europe we will be debating it here in the parliament and you know I think since COVID-19 a lot of people didn't realize that the European Union has some responsibility around health but has limited responsibility around public health which is the member state competence but we knew that when the crisis hit Europe that we needed a more coordinated european response and therefore Europe needs to be a little bit more or given more if you like responsibility in this area because when you're explaining to citizens around competence I think you're losing the argument and I think we would rather have at a european level the remit to make sure that in future we have the capacity around personal protective equipment around supply of pharmaceuticals because these were issues that dogged us in the beginning of this crisis so the idea of a conference was laid out by the president of the commission of underline at the start of her if you like mandate and when she was going through the process of being ratified I think it was prompted by brexit I think it's been enhanced by if you like by COVID-19 but there is a reluctant partner at the moment and that is the member states and the council and we will be imploring the member states and hopefully Ireland as well to get on board and not to fear what might emerge from this conversation with citizens where we hope to listen more than we speak because I think people have a lot to say and what's been really interesting is that the idea which came from Ireland of citizens assemblies is quoted frequently here in committee about how you could engage with citizens so it's been good to hear that you know I think the reluctance at member state level may be part of a political weariness that everyone's terrified that somebody might suggest treaty change but to some extent I think you can rule nothing out because you know yesterday will be different than tomorrow and there may well be things that we will need to look at in terms of treaty change and having lived through some referendum where I wasn't in politics and then was where I was you know it's good occasionally to let people have their say and indeed sometimes when they have their say we are told off and we have to go back to the drawing board so I would hope that next week will provide a stimulus to the council in particular to get on board with this and to come to come with ideas that we might start this conversation at the latest at the end of this year and you know we're doing this remotely we can also use technology where the pandemic doesn't allow us to physically connect to do that in a remote way just my last comment if you like is around healthy tension if you like I work with national parliaments and increasingly I suppose there is that tension between European parliament and national parliaments and I think we need to try and understand each other better and work better together very often there's severe criticism of the European Union on issues that the very person who's political party they come from has been part of a decision so those sorts of things are not helpful and lastly to say that some of the conversation and language at the moment around how Europe needs to if you like reassure some of its for example pharmaceuticals or the issue around medical devices etc we need to be I think careful around that I think we do certainly need to look at where we had weaknesses and that was a supply of raw materials and we do need to look at diversifying our supply chain but given that in other places there is a language of you like of looking back and being inward I think for the European Union we should not not if you like adopt the same language we should look at this in a different way and provide some global leadership around supply chains so it's quite positive that when it comes to the vaccine that we hope will come for COVID-19 that the commission wants to work at EU level four member states in accessing the vaccine but also making sure that the rest of the world has access to it as well so those are my opening remarks and I look forward to both comments and questions thank you thank you very much indeed Vice President that's very wide-ranging but I think touched on the really crucial points that are in the discussion at the moment and as you said yourself COVID-19 has derailed a lot of the some of the big discussion points brexit for example but these will all start gradually of course coming back we have another question and I will go to you perhaps we'll take two or three together to give you a better chance I have a question here from Alan Dukes who says that the EU has no treaty competence in the area of health policy what is the legal basis for the commission's current activities in relation to COVID-19 and how far does this allow the commission to go Francis Jacobs who is no stranger to the European Parliament having been a representative here said that the parliament has been leading on the idea of a conference on the future of Europe but and I think you've spoken about that and what does the European Parliament want to happen now on the time in content of this conference and how do you feel that Irish and other citizens use on the future of Europe can be meaningfully incorporated into this debate and Jackie Fisher says she would like to ask you how how do you feel the Irish government has performed in that interaction between government and parliament especially in the never-ending context of a possible second election this year that brings us back a bit to domestic politics but perhaps I'll give you those three Vice President and floor is yours for your comment okay thank you and Alan thank you very much Alan knows more than I ever hoped to so you probably know the answer already Alan to that question I think very simply that there was a desire at member state level that Europe did something particularly when borders were being closed but there's also the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control which has a massive huge amount of information which was hugely helpful to member states in terms of dealing with the pandemic so I think there was a capacity within existing legal frameworks for Europe to do all of that perhaps what there wasn't was a plan that should a pandemic happen this would be the rollout so I dare say that if there ever is a second wave or indeed another crisis like this around public health that the European Union will be better prepared because we will take earlier note of warnings from our own Center for Disease Prevention and Control which as I understand it were warning very early in the year about this and perhaps again member states weren't as connected to what was happening or heeding those warnings so I think there is a lesson to be learned from that and when it comes to then the treaty idea of that we don't have much competence and if you want more about treaty change which is why I referenced that in the conference on the future of Europe there is a concern amongst the member states I would say a lot of them that there might be a suggestion of treaty change but in this area that we're just talking about it seems to me that this would be a positive that where Europe can act in a positive way around public health then it should and I also think that you know given what we went through in terms of austerity and we could have lots of debates around that there was also a recognition that investing in hospitals and infrastructure is really necessary because when you don't have sufficient capacity at times of pandemic you have to take extraordinary measures to put those in place I'll move to the Francis Jacobs question around the EP leading on this and yes we have we've already set out what we would like to see around this conference on the future of Europe and in a way you have to keep talking about the future because there are you know voters now and generations coming up who who haven't been around so they need to give their input I mean there's my family for example I was born and was if you like aware of when we joined the European Union but my children have known nothing else but they would have ideas about the future so I think it's really important that there is an engagement at that level and it's also I suppose to try and address which what is sometimes called the disconnect and I I get cross about that sometimes because I think when it comes to a connect I think that MEPs from Ireland we because of how we're elected are connected I hope better than perhaps in other places where there isn't that process of having to go and meet your electorate and not just when it comes to election time but right throughout the five years of your mandate I think we are connected I mean for me the issues around the future are dealing with how we re if you like focus society how we live work and play to be more sustainable and how we deal with demography for example how we for example and we're talking about this in Ireland how we care for people whether they're young or whether they're old these are things that have actually raised their head if you like during the pandemic so that will be part of the conversation and and the other thing I think the conference will do is allow people understand what Europe does and what it doesn't do because sometimes that's not very clear but for me it's more about listening than talking and I think that the the conversations with citizens will be hugely important to drive the agenda rather than it been driven by if you like the parliament or indeed commissioner council but I do think the issue is will and when will the council come on board and I think that's hugely important I only got part of the third question which said something about another election which of course is why I didn't hear the rest because I got a fright I presume that government formation talks are still ongoing that was the news from last night's meeting of our parliamentary party do you want to just refresh my mind on the actual question around that please yes I think I think it was a question from Jackie Fisher which she was asking you to comment do you feel the Irish government has performed in that and how you feel it has been formed in the interaction between government and parliament especially in the never-ending context of a possible second election this year yeah I mean that's why yeah I open my conference yeah thank you for that for that and apologies I didn't pick it up it's why I opened with which I think is an important point and we need to perhaps do a little bit more work on this how parliaments operate in times of pandemic I mean the European Parliament is slightly different in that there isn't government in opposition but we are required if you like to oversee what the commission is doing when it comes to member state governments and parliaments you know it is difficult if you physically cannot be in a chamber together I mean that's a basic difficulty and how that is organized and I think there is always a sense for opposition parties that they don't they haven't access if you like to the same floor and platform to speak I mean I would and you'd be surprised if I said otherwise think that the Irish government has performed well on many fronts during this pandemic which has been very difficult and we think today of the families that are grieving because of the pandemic as we begin to ease up on on the restrictions but I think what the government has been led with in terms of the functioning of the parliament itself is the public health advice which restricts how many times people can meet I mean even in our political group meetings we are spaced out obviously and rightly so so that we adhere to the strict measures that we expect citizens to adhere to I'm not sure how this will pan out when the survey is done across Europe and indeed one of the ideas we're discussing here with the president of the parliament is that we might as a parliament engage with member state parliaments in the coming months to see how we all responded and to learn lessons and perhaps make recommendations and I think that's something that will be very useful because there's nothing worse than forgetting something that is learned in crisis when indeed we may need to use that information at some future time so generally I think yes it's been it's been difficult it's been particularly difficult in Ireland because we have a government that has if you like you have to keep going until there's another government and therefore there is that tension naturally around the parties but so far I think so good and I hope that and I have no more information than you do so read nothing into my lips or my words I do hope that there will be some outcome on those government formation talks I expect at the weekend but perhaps you have wiser knowledge than I thank you vice president for that and I have quite a few more questions but I have one here from Suzanne Keating from Docus and it's a fairly lengthy comment but as you mentioned it's as much a discussion as a question and answer she asks how inward focused is the mood within the european parliament at the moment do you think we're seeing a worrying trend towards more of a europe first close to our borders approach rather than a more ambitious perspective to think and act globally to address social inequality as well as climate for example how will it act post-covid in terms of re-prioritizing the sustainable development goals and having a much more proactive approach to help marginalize groups and fragile countries beyond Europe or near neighbors and I have another one here from Uno Duar on well not necessarily difficult different topic could you explain why the new parliament is working on an unusually high number of requests for legislative initiatives and mms contingency plan is this coincidental or a deliberate strategy and I'm going to take advantage if you can take three of them a question of my own which is the we were talking about the recovery fund and the vast range of financial incentives it is the case that not all the groups in the european parliament are supportive of the recovery fund do you see this we we have divergences among the european council and the frugal four but do you see a problem in the european parliament in passing a recovery fund I hope that's not too much to cope with no no and I may not answer them as well as I showed or as you as well as you wish but let me start with your own question I think that as I mentioned when the announcement was made there was a general relief perhaps and some element of anxiety being lifted that Europe was responding and in a significant way and then we've had the conversations internally in political groups and indeed in member states as to is this the right way forward is this enough is it too much who pays so in a sense the questions of where when why and all of those things are they are being debated I think the parliament's response was positive within that there are different views as to how it should be structured there are different views as to whether we should push out the repayment date for as long as possible or repay now and that really depends on your political attitude so those will be resolved I never worry about tensions or differences of opinion here in the parliament that's what we thrive on to some extent and then we always come to an agreement between ourselves as to how we move forward so if there weren't differences of opinion I would be more worried so I think those things can be dealt with perhaps to your point around though those frugal member states who I thought one of them might have been shifting a little there still is huge reluctance but even from some of the members of parliament from those countries there are different views so that it isn't as if everybody from those four has a certain way of thinking so that there is a capacity if you like not to persuade but also to allow those to come around to accepting or agreeing to what's being proposed I mean one of the difficult issues will be around own resources so those who are being asked to contribute more to the budget will they be willing to allow the european union if you like create more of its own resources so the debate is now and there are no answers to that debate but the time is short and I think that the timeline the commission has proposed that everything will be well in place by the end of this year is is really ambitious but it's necessary because this budget the mf ever runs out so we need a new budget for 2021 on the first question I think that's a really really good question about whether europe is becoming more inward and it is why I mentioned in my last few moments of my conversation with you that I was a little concerned around some of the language even around the pharmaceuticals that we should if you like bring it all back home the manufacturing back to europe not that we do need to look at that as one issue but that did it if you like speak to the point that you have made in your comment I'll be coming more inward focused and I think that that would be a shame if it were to happen so I've been quite careful even in some of my amendments to that particular report on the supply of pharmaceuticals to try and speak to that point that europe is really important globally now because other players leading players are perhaps not as focused globally as europe is and I would hope that we don't take that approach as you know in different member states there are different views on this issue but I think from an Irish point of view because we need to be globally focused because of our size first of all but also the fact that we're big traders and I think we should help that conversation and where we see it steering in that direction we should not allow that to happen and when it comes to you know assisting the developing world in aid etc we have a lot of work we could do to support them around renewable energies which will also help us so I think there's a lot of synergies there where we need to look globally and not look inwardly because we won't achieve our best if we do that but you're right to raise it because it would be wrong if it does creep in and is not curtailed and one of the things I perhaps should have mentioned that the parliament here and again to the credit of president Sassoli when our facilities couldn't be used by members because we weren't here they were used by marginalized groups here who needed food who needed shelter and equally just to mention that our building in Strasbourg was used by the health authorities there as a testing center so I think we in the parliament would try and keep that outward focus and I think our development committee will certainly keep us on our toes in that regard but you know over the last while there has been that tendency since perhaps the economic crash to have that inward focus the pandemic in a way where we were all bringing citizens back home where we were the disclosure of borders perhaps has accelerated a feeling of people looking inwards on the other hand I think what once Europe got to grips with this pandemic and the president of the commission acted swiftly and well where she apologized to those within Europe who felt they had not been properly dealt with our Italian colleagues and Spanish and I think that she has had a much more global approach even to the point where the raising of funds for the vaccine development of vaccines so and I think docas and others should keep us on our toes on that because I mean I think a strong Europe internally but weak globally is a weak Europe well the other question was explain initiatives yes that the European parliament as the new parliament seems to be working on an unusually high number of requests for legislative initiatives from the commission well it was contingency plan well I mean well it's it's I suppose the desire of the parliament and it was something that we had discussed with the president of the commission that we would have these initiatives we also have special committees and they've just been announced today one of them around cancer and other a committee of inquiry into the transportation alive transportation of animals which I think will be of of interest to Ireland and other committees and I think that it's appropriate that the parliament feels that where there are areas that we would like to push in terms of legislation that we have the capacity to do that but there are always checks and balances to it I mean this is an interesting parliament where one year old there are more new members than old I'm one of the oldies and in many ways I have to say I never thought it would last this long but it's it's interesting how time flies and I'm reminded of Avril Doyle making that point to me many years ago that you know the five years here and the man that feels like five weeks but every parliament is different and I do think that the context of the way the world is at the moment which is not not in a pretty place in terms of cooperation the way Europe is reacting to a public health crisis the way we now realize that the road to recovery will require public investment in infrastructure is changing the dynamic somewhat so I think it's only right that we as who are elected directly by the citizens of Europe would take initiatives as appropriate we won't always get our way but it's certainly right that we take those initiatives I would like to think though that within our political groups we talk more with our political parties in our member states because sometimes the gulf there is larger and wider than it needs to be what will be fascinating if I may say around government formation talks if they come to fruition and we do have Fina Goyal, Fina Foll and the Greens together that in this parliament here we will have the EPP group that I sit with there are new group that Fina Foll sits with and the Greens where there are two colleagues and to be interesting to see how we vote on different issues so we will have a government of three in Ireland perhaps and you know we will have to resolve issues here in the European parliament so nothing about politics is easy at the moment and indeed nothing is certain either and I think in the years I've been in the parliament and that's what strikes me that around every corner where you thought it was a clear view it very often there isn't a clear view at all and that's why if you come back to this idea on a conference of the future of Europe you know a lot of people are waking up to many issues that perhaps were just dormant in their minds and want to be part of the conversation and that's why if those of you listening have any influence it will be good that you talk to people particularly at council level to get this up and running Thanks very much Vice President actually it's the next question is very much in the line of communication between the parliament and national government and it's could the new working methods developed during the Covid crisis be used for a more intensive dialogue between the European Parliament committees and their national counterparts for example on discussion on substance of proposed EU legislation I don't know if you'd just like to continue on with that one Well I think it's an absolutely great question and it's absolutely right to raise it because we have learned to if you like work in new ways because we had to so necessity was the mother of invention I mean for example even within my own political party Fina Guala our meetings our parliamentary party meetings are remote and they're excellent and in fact from my point of view where they're normally on a Wednesday night a physical meeting in Dublin we rarely can be there but I'm now available to connect with my colleagues because I can do this remotely and I think that should transfer to engagement at committee level or indeed a few elected national parliamentarians who want a briefing on something or indeed if I want to hear their view on a particular issue should use the technology now of course we all can slip back into our old ways and I think it will be a shame if that were to happen because it's been really interesting for example all of my staff are remote working and they're fantastic and they're working really well and it's it's amazing what can be achieved so there's no reason why the good bits of the way we work now because of the pandemic could be kept and in fact strengthen that bond which is not strong enough between the european parliament and national parliaments and indeed I think governments could do more to strengthen that as well so that you don't need to be physically present but you can use technology in a way that we perhaps were shy of using and I think we need to be less formal I think sometimes when you're I mean this is is formal but also informal sometimes if you're setting things up for months and we're doing it regularly it becomes mundane whereas if it's that you need to speak on you know peatlands or some particular issue that you can get somebody from the commission the parliament and from the member state and we can have a very good dialogue I don't know how many webinars I've done since this pandemic hit and I'm many more next week and I've learned an awful lot from them so I'm for one with keeping with the good parts and using the technology to best advantage thank you very much indeed yes and we'll be hopeful for the future we'll have learned a lot from our experience in the technological area another question from Ethna McDermott who thanks you for a terrific and very interesting informed talk and she said she would welcome some words on your thoughts about the recent judgment of the German constitutional court yeah yeah I'll deal with that I was almost going to read what maybe that's the wisest thing to do what the president of the commission Ursula von der Leyen said that they've taken note as the parliament has of the German court and in fact we're organizing a hearing in the constitutional affairs committee on this very subject and I think the last two lines are important because they're what the parliament are doing and I'll just read them rather than make them up where we are at one with the commission we are now analyzing the ruling of the court in detail and we will look into possible next steps from the commission point of view this may include the option of infringement proceedings and the statement she made goes on to say that the European Union is a community of values and law which must be upheld and defended at all times it's what keeps us together and it's what we stand for so I think there was just to reflect on that ruling I mean there was quite an intake of breath when the ruling was made some of my German colleagues explained it in a way which made it sound more technical than political about just the justification for what the the ECB were doing you know wasn't clear enough however I think we in the constitutional affairs committee would like to hear from other legal experts about what their view is so it certainly hasn't gone unnoticed and couldn't because it was quite a significant ruling but I would say watch out for more on this and certainly more from the parliament side as to how we interpret what the court said because I mean if that ruling were to prevail where does that put the European court and we would always say that the European court would prevail yes thank you very much indeed for that I have a couple of questions on the cap on which I know you are you are an expert there is I think if I recall in the new budget an extra four billion for for the cap the question is do you feel that this is sufficient for the cap at the present time and added to this is a question on biodiversity would you envisage that farmers would be paid to farm for biodiversity as I think in the reference is to the very successful borne life program which won a european award for initiative in that regard yeah so I'll take the biodiversity point first and thank you for it and yes the borne is fantastic and I had the privilege of presenting awards I thought it was last year but actually was the previous year to those farming for nature award winners but it was interesting there was a story in the garden about the borne which was fantastic to see but it basically said that food would not be the priority commodity if you like produced on the farm it would be about the other public goods but this is a conversation that is I think at its peak at the moment about how do we farm sustainably how can we encourage farmers to if you like farm with biodiversity in mind and you know I think we have to put our hands up as policymakers that some of what was implemented in the past has actually led to the situation today where we are concerned about biodiversity I'm I was my first job many many years ago was on a program called Landmark in ortee and one of my colleagues at the time and he's long gone Kieran Cassand if you recall him used to do fantastic programs about showing farmers to drain peatlands it was the biggest story of the moment and how they were supported with grand aid to drain peatlands and today that is quite a shocking thing to say because we now realize that peatlands are vital for carbon sequestration and if anything we need to re-wet peatlands so the conversation has gone full circle and yes I think the objective of the next cap is to encourage farmers through eco schemes to do more for environmental delivery and there will be extra supports for schemes in rural development which speaks to the first question about targeting schemes for climate environment and biodiversity so they are very much linked my personal view and I've said this on many occasions that I would like to see schemes that give long-term benefit and not short-term that a scheme that lasts five years if you plant a habitat and where the funding is gone after five years the the result may well be that that habitat is ripped up and that's not what we want to see equally the common agricultural policy as it currently frames discourages farmers from maintaining landscape features because very often the field of russia's or the scrub land is deducted and so there is no payment for that part of a farm and we can change that and I've already raised this with vice president Timmermans in the commission I think minister creed has raised this so we need to reinterpret what we call good environmental and agricultural condition to receive payments but what this will mean when it comes to the overall budget and we've been pushing for more we've got more now through rural development and we hope that that will be sustained but there's always been a strain on on what would be available for agriculture but it will result in a redistribution of payments between farmers and that's been a difficult issue not just now but in the past once we moved our payment regime away from production linked payments it was also was going to be sensitive when we re if you like link them to land and now as we're moving perhaps not in 100 but partly towards linking to those elements around biodiversity so results-based payments they are complicated but they are if you like the direction of travel and what I would like to say now that I have an opportunity by way of those questions is that I would love to see more environmentalists and farmers walking the fields together rather than perhaps on social media having a go at each other because there's a huge interest amongst the general public to have a more sustainable environment and amongst farmers to deliver that and I think that the conversations will be better if we could just learn from each other I mean it's been quite fascinating sometimes when comments are put up the level of and we've seen it in other issues recently of agitation rather than saying actually we're in this together and we can learn from each other and I think for farmers and they were probably farmers tuning in that rather than seeing this trend as an attack on their way of life or on how they're farming today you could see this as a huge opportunity at two levels one is at your own micro level because sometimes using that amount of fertilizer isn't a good idea if you could use it better by precision agriculture and save costs and perhaps add a necessary boost to income and secondly from an Irish and all island perspective where we are regarded as a major agriculture producer that if we can have a stamp of greater sustainability it means that we can proudly on the european and global markets talk about what we're doing in terms of sustainability so I think to those two questions there are great examples of where farmers collectively and individually are going and doing great things and sometimes the headlines we read perhaps in the press don't reflect that although again I'm beginning to see a little bit more nuanced reaction to issues like the farm to folk strategy and the biodiversity strategy so I think there is that concern that we can actually move forward together thank you very much indeed we're coming we have only about five minutes but I have two questions if I could ask for your comments on them one is something that is very current and indeed in today's papers I think it's from Anna Ludwineck of Eurofound and that the european parliament has just set up several new committees one dealing with disinformation how far the european should the european parliament go in tackling state-driven disinformation campaigns such as from Russia and China and what is your view of the EEAS bowing it seems to pressure from China with their report on the topic that is one and the other one that I had is the situation within the european parliament with regard to nationalism and the and the question of flouting european norms and laws how is the european parliament preparing to deal with with countries who do not accept the european principles and norms just your comments on that as a last series okay the two easy ones are left to last I mean the first one on this disinformation because all of us have been caught out with various things that we've read on social media presuming them to be true and then feeling quite silly when they weren't and that's okay when it's jokey but it's not okay when it is a drip feed of disinformation which impacts on the public perception and opinion and I think there's a very strong editorial in the irish times today on that particular issue and the commission this week have been very strong in in what it's doing so I think europe is responding well to that but to get ahead of those that spread disinformation is extremely difficult and that's why what the parliament is doing is very important and you know the truth is we're all grappling with the constant evolution of social media the constant evolution of access to information which could be true or false and therefore I think it's hugely important that we do much more on it I mean even around COVID-19 which was the focus of what the commission we're talking about this week I mean it was horrific some of the stories that were put out there about the virus it also impacted on people's behavior so it's it's a very important subject and some of my colleagues are very involved in it and I think what the parliament will do working with the commission will be hugely important but it's also an issue for the platforms and I think more and more we're going to have to have as we are already having very tough conversations with the social media platforms that they have a responsibility on many different fronts disinformation child pornography also you know violence etc that if you provide a platform for these for the good and the bad you have to take some responsibility for what the outcome is so that will be a huge part of our work because it also impacts on people's views of the european union disinformation if you like and it's links to your second question that you put to me about this nationalism or nativism sometimes around what individual countries are doing and that's a very difficult issue I mean one of the member states this week has issued details of a questionnaire they're sending out to their citizens and those of you who have read the questionnaire will know the details of it the questions are very loaded to get a particular answer and we're finding difficulty in dealing with that to be quite frank because there are member states who act that way who want to be part of Europe but distinct from Europe and indeed have a view about how Europe should if you like be reshaped while those of us who accept the values and norms of today are holding to those so I think we can do our best to be aware of what's going on I think in terms of this recovery package the parliament I think will be interested and anxious to stitch in adherence to rule of law issues in terms of conditionality whether we achieve that or not because the council may have a different view so I think we are well aware of those two issues the disinformation and the individualism of some member states and indeed there will be another member state in the spotlight next week on a different issue about access to EU funding so we're not dealing with the perfect union that's for sure we are dealing and I suppose even the covid and response to it has shown how individual member states felt they were better than the rest and I mean that plays into this idea that I'm better than you and that's not how Europe started and not it's not how Europe should end or complete its journey towards a more coherent European Union those two issues will determine that and you know some of the leaders speak to what is I suppose that very how will I put it without being let me choose my words carefully here the macho image of the leader I don't think that's effective or appropriate in the world of today where as to the question from docus requires Europe which has much more riches than the rest and much more in terms of civil liberties and freedoms to be a leader and that we shouldn't diminish what's happening globally by allowing ourselves to be diminished internally thanks very much indeed vice president I think that's a very good point on which to end the conversation and thank you very much for all the time and and just the sheer amount of information that you have given us in your talk I think we wish you well you meant you're staying over the weekend into next week I think we appreciate the effort that's been made at European level to keep working and and keep the initiatives going in this very difficult time and producing the plans that they have and next week is going to be a very crucial week as you mentioned with the meeting on Monday and the parliament meeting on brexit next week so thank you very much indeed thank you very much with us and we hope to see you again thank you my pleasure thank you all