 This is Startup A Star Front. When Anne Hache passed away on August 11, 2022, it shocked the world. After reportedly reaching a top speed of 100 miles per hour, she drove her Mini Cooper into the side of a Los Angeles home. Although emergency responders were able to free her from the wreckage, she passed away in the hospital a couple days later. Anne Hache left a courageous, complicated past behind. From standing up for same-sex relationships in the early 90s to an Emmy-winning acting career, she has forever left a mark on modern culture. Today we are speaking with Anne Hache, podcast co-host, co-author and dear friend, Heather Duffy. At the time Anne passed, she and Heather had been working on Anne's newest book titled Call Me Anne. They were weeks away from finalizing when Anne died. Heather was able to finish the book through the notes and outlines that Anne left behind. In today's episode, we discuss how Anne got escorted out of her own movie premiere for arriving with Ellen DeGeneres as her date, getting blacklisted from Hollywood as a result, but not letting them have the last word and how unsubstantiated claims about the fatal crash drowned out the truth in the hours and days that followed. All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Heather. This is a first for us. So thank you for coming on, but Heather tell us what is the first? We usually talk to founders about them starting their own businesses and we dive into the details. On today, it's almost like a remembrance episode of your relationship with Anne. You're here to talk about the new book. And so we're going to we're going to travel through this discussion together in what I would call Uncharted territory for Nick and I. Let's go. But thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about this book because I know it's something that would have meant so much to her and it's one of those things. When you lose somebody, there's those milestones and things that happen that you really, you really miss them because you know how much those moments would have meant to them. And for people who don't know or need to be reminded of Anne, you know, how would you describe her or how might people know her? How would the average person know her? Because there might be some, you know, that the generation coming up behind me may not be aware of of her and all that she contributed both in her iconic films, but also in the way that she really moved the needle for LGBTQ plus rights and was best known for her early movies, Volcano, Six Days, Seven Nights, Wag the Dog, Donnie Brasco. And she started out as many actors do on a soap opera on another world. So that was her first job out of college. I'll backtrack a little bit because I really like this story. I mean, I guess I can go back all the way into her how she how she grew up. She grew up in a family that was very kind of a religious cult, really. And her father was closeted. He was a closeted gay man who never lived his life openly. They were always in financial trouble. Her father fancied himself an entrepreneur and would always say, you know, the deal is going to come in next Tuesday. And, you know, she was always waiting for that next deal. But the fact of the matter is that Anne supported the family through her acting. From the time she was about 12 singing in dinner theater. So her dad, her dad actually died of AIDS. And the day after he died, the New York Times declared AIDS the gay disease. So their family was basically outed. Did they know he was gay prior to that? So they found out it was it was sort of then then they kind of pieced it together and in a couple months later, her brother committed suicide. And so Anne strongly believed that, you know, those lies in the family and not being honest with something that really tore the family apart. And that's going to come to play later when we when we talk a little bit more. But I'm trying to get to the story of they left. Where were they like Atlantic City or something and had to move to Chicago? And so obviously her mother was very upset. And, you know, she'd lost her husband and her son. And so Anne was kind of fending for herself and walked across the street. They were living in a one bedroom hotel, her and her mother. She walked across the street, which happened to be a school called Francis Parker, which is a very well known theatrical school. So she walked in there and she said, you know, I got to sign up for high school. You know, I'm going to be a freshman. I need to sign up. And she it was the headmistress that she was talking to. And I know I was just thinking that there's probably a headmaster. Headmaster. No, that seems wrong, too. You can be a headmaster. There's got to be some new inclusive language. Headmaster. Yeah. Anyway, the principal, the female master, the principal. Yeah. She said, well, you know, this is a private school. And Anne said, what's that? And she said, it costs money. And I don't have any of that. And so they ended up talking and Anne ended up getting a full ride scholarship to this school. And this is the school where Daryl Hannah and Jennifer Beals went. And so it was kind of well known. And so cut to a couple of years later when she's there and in and in a play, an agent is snowed in and said, well, let me go see what's going on at Francis Parker if I can find any new talent. And that's how Anne was discovered. And so from there, she went to be on another world where she played twins Vicki and Marley, and then she moved to Hollywood and started acting in these, getting these incredible roles. She was like the it girl at the time. And she was at the Golden Globes and she met Ellen as generous. Anne had never been with a woman. She, you know, she she always had boyfriends. And she didn't consider herself to be a lesbian. She did not. And so back in this time, you know, in the 90s, we're probably talking about the late 90s, Ellen was she had a sitcom. People know her now from the Ellen show. But back then she had a show I think it was just called Ellen. And so she famously came out as gay on the show, which had never been done before. And Anne met her in that week that that episode was airing. So it was, you know, Ellen was on the cover of Time Magazine. But of course, Anne being Anne and no idea of pop culture did not follow any of that. She didn't even know who Ellen was. But she just saw this person who was just so open with who she was. So she was really drawn. She was really drawn to that. So that was when Anne's movie Volcano was coming out. And so. And this is a crazy story, this part of it. Yes. And you guys got to understand this is in the same week. It's not like she'd been dating Ellen for a year and wanted to bring her girlfriend. This has all happened in a week. She's just seen this new person that she wants to bring as her date to the premiere of Volcano. And so she's at the four seasons and all of her suits and PR. People come in and and say, you cannot bring her, you know, you cannot bring her as a date, as a date. Right. And because at that time being out wasn't a comfortable discussion. Right. You know, you wouldn't want to bring on this weird energy. Let's call it to a movie premiere where people could then boycott the movie. And also and also back then, too, they they thought because Anne was a real leading lady and she was supposed to be like, you know, she was like a hot girl. Right. And so you're going to ruin, you know, all marketability. Yeah, exactly. So the managers are saying this is terrible for you. It's not done. Well, why do you think nobody nobody did it? You know, and it's not that people all of a sudden are gay now. Right. It's just that it wasn't marketable. Let's call it. Nobody did it. Yeah. Nobody had the balls to go against the way things were. And that's what Anne did. She so she brought her, she basically said, you know, fuck you. I'm literally, she said, fuck you. You're all fired and brought her and they're in the movie premiere. And before the lights go up, they're escorted out by security. They're literally a movie premiere by security to their car because they didn't want any photos of them taken together at the premiere. Do you know who did that? Was it the studio? Yes. It was the studio and she lost her. She had it like a ten million dollar like four picture deal or I can't remember how many pictures deal there, but she lost that. I mean, now we could have sued for it. Now now it would have been a whole other situation. But back then so then they, you know, they go home and Anne has just tested for six days and seven nights with Harrison Ford. And so that gig is on the line now, right? Because she's just done this. So Harrison basically stands up for her and says that he wants her in the movie. And that that's a good story that's in the book that you can read about how he, how he stands up for her and her relationship with him on that set and what she learned from him. In knowing her, did she disclose anything to you about what this moment was like for her at, whether it's in business, but even more, more personally. So more of you meet this person, you like them, you invite them to your premiere. I think people in Hollywood might not view it as a big deal per se, but people watching view this as a massive deal because it's the red carpet and there's a lot of glitz and glam and build up around this event. Whereas Anne might just view it as like a Thursday night per se. Yes. And so has she in, you know, in talking to her, is there what is her personal take on how this was? Well, I mean, her she was so big on truth telling and on being honest. And I think that's why I took you all the way back to her childhood. So that you can understand that because not only was was her family, you know, very poor, but they fronted like they were not. So it was like everything was, you know, like they would sleep like her dad got got keys from a friend who was a realtor and they would sneak in and sleep in homes that were for sale and had to wake up early and get out and then, you know, look completely, they all had their one great outfit that so they looked like they were presenting. And so so for her, which is why she just could not live her life not being 100 percent honest. It was the thing that she valued most. So for her knowing her the way I know her, like in that night, she didn't have a choice in her own mind. Like there was no way, regardless of the consequences, you know, I talked to her after that, like, would you have would you have done it the same? And she's like, I would have. I had to. I did, you know. And and and, you know, like when you make decisions, hard decisions, I always say when you're faced with a decision, the one that's the one that's more difficult, the one that takes more work, the one that is going to be a little more uncomfortable is usually the right one. You know, how long did Ellen and her date for after that? A couple years. I don't remember exactly, but a couple, a couple of years, significant, a significant amount of time. And outside of Harris and Ford sticking up for her, how did Hollywood interpret her at that time, knowing that she's now dating? She was shunned completely blacklisted. She was she didn't do another studio picture for 10 years. And then she did she did Broadway. She did proof. She did she was called in to do proof on Broadway. And the show was dying and they they're like, oh, we'll just have her come in and finish it off, finish up the run of the show. So they put her and her son was very little at the time. They put her up at the Four Seasons in New York, because it was just going to be a couple of weeks. And then she kills it. And the show becomes a smashing success. And they're stuck putting her up at the Four Seasons. That's the thing is that her her talent is and it's a testament because you don't you don't get blacklisted in the way that she did. And then continue to work consistently, solidly, putting out good work for another, you know, what, 30 years? While she was blacklisted and while her career shifted, she worked nonstop. I mean, she made hundreds and hundreds of films. If you go look her up on her I and D and B, she didn't stop. She worked her ass off from the time she was 12 years old till the day she died. It's a miracle that she didn't get jaded and completely just like shun the industry after after going through something like that, because you could understand how she could have adopted that mindset. I mean, did she ever talk to you about her philosophy there? It's interesting because that's actually what the entire book called Me Ann is really about is the fact that she went through so much. She went through, you know, she went through abuse. She went through abuse from her own family. She went through abuse from the public. This book we called it Call Me Ann, and it's kind of just like a little bit of an F.U. because her first book was called Call Me Crazy and everybody did because that book came out right as 9-11 happened. She was actually on an airplane like she was going out of Boston on the same morning that 9-11 happened. So what ended up happening was nobody ever took the time. Like the book tour was canceled, so she couldn't really talk about the content of the book and what she meant by the title, and then all the late night pundits just took that and ran with it because there was very little you could make fun of back then, you know? And look, if you were talking about how we've grown with our views on same sex and LGBTQ plus and all of that that goes along with that, we've really come a long way with that. But back then even, you know, a book titled Call Me Crazy and they called her crazy. Like we even look at mental health differently now. Like that would have been untouchable. Right. That would be untouchable now. But back to your point, I think that it was one of the most remarkable things about her is that she maintained her positive thinking, her hopefulness, her kindness. And that's really the themes of this book. It's honesty, kindness and joy. It's like how do you live a life of joy and in her mind and what this book is kind of a roadmap of is is is you do that by being kind and by being honest and by being you. And at what point do you guys meet? At what point did you meet Anne? I met Anne right when her son was born, the 13 year old. So about 13 years ago at the Los Angeles Tennis Club, it was a ladies tennis clinic and somebody had invited her to sub in the clinic, which is the only way to get in. Yeah, but you have to know you have to know tennis tennis. So she didn't really play tennis, you know, she had just started to play. And so she walks on to the court. I don't she didn't even have a racket, you know. And I'm like, who did this to her? You know, because it's actually a mean thing to do to invite somebody because it's very serious and it's, you know, and I think they just thought it would be fun to have Anne Hayes come to our clinic. I just felt for her and kind of took her under my wing and showed her how, you know, where to stand, how to hold the racket, try not to get hit. And then we just, you know, became became really great friends. And then the pandemic happened and I started working with her a lot more because my at the time, the focus of my business, I'm in public relations, you know, was restaurants. And so I found myself with a lot more free time. Yeah. And so she was coming up with these project ideas and one of them was the book. And so we started talking about, you know, what she wanted to do. And then we started a podcast together. It's Better Together with Anne and Heather is about finding ways to live your best life. And so we have experts that come on and I still talk in the present tense. We have, well, we have whatever experts come on and give us, give us their insight into, you know, how to, how to be better, how to live better, how to be kinder, all of those things. So the book is really an extension of a lot of the discussions we've had on the podcast, but a lot of things that have been brewing for Anne, you know, her whole, her whole life. And so when she, when she died in August, she died the same week that the book was supposed to come out or supposed to be finished, I should say, you know, that turned into the publisher. So I say, you know, that day that she passed, she was probably working on the book, I think, and I think she, I think she was probably going out for a drive to like think about a part of the book because that's how she would clear her head would be to to go for a drive. So yeah, when, when I had to find ways to kind of tie it up and and finish it, and it was kind of fascinating how I did that because she really kind of guided me in a lot of places and strength. I would always make the joke that, you know, she was a lot more, I'm not spiritual, but she was a lot more, she was a lot more into all of that way of thinking and I'm a little more practical. And so I would always say to her, if you died, you'd haunt the shit out of me. And she would say, well, you definitely feel me. And I do. So it would be through things like finding a little note that she had written, like the beginning of the book, there's a quote at the beginning of the book that that was just on a piece of paper that I found at my house that she wrote. And it's so poignant. What was it? Yeah, do you remember? Yeah, please. You have it with you? It's in the book. That's true. This is a first for us. Yeah. A book reading. A book reading. And this is just a note I found as I'm trying to figure out like I need, I need to just I need to tie it up. I need there's certain things. And so like certain songs would come on the radio over and over again. And all of a sudden like, oh, wait, there's the message. There's that one line that I needed to finish. So she would it was it was very bizarre experience. So this was the note I found. I believe in life everlasting. I believe it is ours to choose for all the rest of my time on this earth. I choose to live to the fullest of my potential. I wake each day to another adventure and seek the wisdom it offers. That is the truth of me. The joy I feel in that commitment has provided me with purpose, love, meaning and excitement. This is what I share. This is what I care about. And that's pretty much sums up a lot of the content of the book. In getting to know her, what do you think what what do you think her purpose was in the way she viewed it? I mean, that's a pretty powerful statement, what she just said there, where she's finding joy in taking tomorrow as like a new adventure. What was the thing that really got her? Was it acting? Was it? No, no, it was just expression. It was acting in creating the character. Like in in in that she loved to create a character and bringing something else to life and like as somebody who knew her so well, like I could see her play a role and she would just change her walk in like the tiniest little way. And I'm like, she didn't have to do that. You know, like nobody would have noticed. But like I noticed she really loved the podcast. She really loved connecting, connecting with the people on the podcast and learning from them. She always wanted to take on new things. She did dancing with the stars and just went and attacked that like a beast. So scary, that show. She would go out there and I would sit in the trailer and just the pressure of that, oh my God, I would like she would go off and I felt like I was staying home on the farm and I'm like, she was going to plow the field. You'll get a letter from her. Yeah, it's just like, oh my God, girl, that's scary. But and that's one of the things too that that was so fantastic about Ann is she was fearless. She wasn't afraid of anything. She would tackle anything. And and I've said this before, but but it's it's one of the things that I really gained her passing was such a huge loss to me. But but one of the positive things that has come out of it is I somehow have embodied that in myself. I all of a sudden find myself also incredibly fearless. And this is a part of it, probably releasing this book. Sure. Yes. How did you go about that? And so obviously you're grieving, obviously your friend, your colleague, your business partner. It was it was a very difficult time. And so, yeah, of course, I look back on it now and I'm like, oh, maybe it was a very difficult time. And I imagine needed edits, right? There's like you have to work, which is probably we had an editor to just edit, you know, like the basics, the basics of it, but it wasn't final. So Ann and I were supposed to sit down on that Monday. She she got into the accident on Friday and Monday and Tuesday of that next week was our time to really sit and go over all the final things. And so like when I went over, like I couldn't talk to her about all the things that I, you know, I had my whole list of and so knowing what I wanted it to be her and not me. So it is her. You know, I didn't I didn't take too many liberties with with putting putting things in there. So do you remember about that day for you personally? Oh, well, I kept getting calls from her manager and agent. I was in the middle of something and I couldn't answer. I just thought it was in the afternoon. Yeah, I just thought it was work related. Right. And I was actually at a doctor. I was actually at a doctor appointment. And and then I got a call from her son, Atlas, and I always pick up his call. And so I just stepped out into the hallway and picked it up and he said, you know, my mom went out and she should have been back by now and she's not back yet. I'm a little worried. So I drove to I drove to him. And as I was driving to him, that's when I got the news from her agent. I actually didn't get the news. I just looked at my phone and there was a and there was a picture of the accident. And I was just and your first thought is probably go to the hospital. My first thought was to go to Atlas. OK, her son. Yeah. And so I did and and and then and then I went to the hospital. But you're never thinking she's going to pass. You're thinking, oh, this is an accident. Yeah, we'll find out the crazy details. What happened later? Yeah. Yes. And so she'll be OK. Yeah. It was a week of, you know, I was just there with her and she's so tough. I thought she was going to pull it off. You know, I'm just like, if anybody is going to pull out of this, it's going to be her. And so when it when when when she didn't and they basically said that she was brain dead. And so that means, you know, that's that's it. But since she's a donor, it becomes a very complicated, very complicated thing. Wow. But it's such an important thing like that, you know, that like I know that, you know, even in her even in her passing, she was able to still give. And kind of to go back to to the premiere of this, right? Where you you know, a premiere is like a normal Wednesday, Thursday night. When this is all happening in the hospital, most people, ninety nine point nine nine percent of people are just getting things from Twitter or or TMZ, whatever website or I mean, the New York Times is covering it in a different way than some of these other people, but everyone wants to be the first to tell. Yes, to break the news. And so then you just the the salacious details. Look, that is somebody that's been in PR for. It's like crisis management. However many years. Yeah. I know the drill. Yeah. I know the drill. And to be on the other side of it and to have them get everything so wrong. And once it's wrong, then it just proliferates, just proliferates. And even more so, you know, now with all the different ways, there was so much misreporting. That it was it was mind blowing. But I can say that as I'm in the hospital and I really just shut it all off. I could not. I was like, I have to table that whole that whole part of it. I didn't follow any. I did hire a crisis PR team to deal with it. And I didn't I didn't, you know, because I did ans PR. So like to be like, I realized very quickly, like I'm not in a position to make solid decisions right now, but but to watch that go down in the way. If I if my phone was on, there was a number coming in. I couldn't make calls out because numbers were coming were coming in. And and people were leaving nasty messages and texts. And, you know, they found my sisters every day that I left the hospital. It was nothing but, you know, paparazzi with the camera in my face. You know, and I didn't say I didn't say anything because if you say something, then they've got something to use. And I didn't do any I didn't do any media interviews at all. There's also a whole thing of of all these reporters who are emailing me and texting me wanting wanting to scoop. And I can see our text exchanges over the years when I'm saying like, oh, Anne's doing this movie. You know, this would be a really great thing for you to cut. And then they're not interested kids. And I'm like, oh, really? Now you want to talk to us? Right. Go fuck yourself. So how does this whole process affect not only your ability to grieve, but her family's ability to grieve as well? Because with all of this misinformation spreading after the accident and the paparazzi outside of the hospital, I mean, it probably I can only imagine that it affected your ability to to process what it actually happened. Her her young son processing what happened. And I'm curious that her her death was in August. Like, did it take a number of weeks, months, like for for you to to kind of internally go through it and, you know, with her family and just kind of. I don't know that we're even there yet because it was first to just let's first it was just let's just get through this second. You know, and then it was let's get the book done. Now it's like let's get the book out. Right. On the reverse of like the the whole let's call it the negative side, right, the paparazzi and all that. What did you learn maybe about about your podcast fans or about Anne's fans? Yeah, that it's so I would imagine is an uplifting moment for you, right? Because it's a side you never really see when people are starting to remember a human, there's there must have been this overwhelming. I do. I want to answer that. But and I want to back up and say a little bit about what some of the misconceptions were, because I think if people didn't follow the story, I think it's it's helpful. So we do a podcast and and we did a podcast on a Tuesday. We had a vodka sponsor for our podcast. So we were doing like a little promo for this vodka company. I don't even think we drank the vodka. If people go back and look, they can't because I took that thing down. People can criticize me all they want for it. But I took it down because what happened was it aired on the same day of the accident. So I was in the accident like 10, 30, 11 in the morning, like for people to think that we woke up at 7 a.m. And you know, and recorded a podcast and released it out. But they but that was being reported like it was fact and that and that. How could I have let her get in the car? You know, and and then cut to now after all of that misinformation went out. Now, the Toxology report shows that she had no drugs or alcohol in her system that affected that that impaired her during the accident. So so drugs or alcohol were not part of the accident. That's not part of the story. I mean, you can look at it. It's it's what has been reported. It's what the Toxology report found. So everybody wanted that to be the story wanted to fit their name and boy did they boy did they roll with it because like our podcast, we have like we're kind of like Kathy Lee and Hoda. We have like our we usually shoot it on a Friday at four, you know, and it was part of our shtick. And so people really took that and ran with it. So once I put out a podcast after her passing to everybody, that's when all the negativity stopped. It was very strange. It immediately stopped. I clarified. I did speak to the paparazzi once coming from the hospital, just to say to clarify when the podcast was recorded and when the accident happened, and that that was helpful as well. But but from that moment on, it was just nothing but support and in a way that just blew me away. And the thing that really blew me away to support for me personally, which was great, but but also all these stories started to come in about how Anne's standing for, you know, standing up for gender free love, because that's what I call it, because she wasn't I wouldn't call her bisexual or flew what she she believed in gender free love. She believed in loving somebody's heart and soul. And so her coming out like that and standing up for that at that time, when it was not done before, I started to get all these letters of people who were able to also come out to their parents at that time because their parents admired Anne because their parents had been like a soap opera fan of hers or really admired her films. And so all of a sudden by Anne doing it, you know, makes it more palatable for their parents and for their parents' friends. And for, you know, so I have all of these beautiful, beautiful letters. I'm going to be working on a documentary and I want to make that a real part of the documentary is the people whose life she impacted. Because, you know, now when you look at you look at a Hollywood premiere and people on the red carpet, you don't even bat an eye if it's a same sex couple or whatever sort of whatever it is. It's not a thing. It's not a thing. And and it took somebody like Anne moving that needle, even if it was just a little bit in such a in such a difficult way. And and and it also I always think it's interesting because you circle back and you think about it also shows us how far we've come as a society. It sounds crazy today that someone would be exactly their own premiere. Exactly. Well, I think my girlfriend, girlfriend, same sex hand that sounds. Oh, my God. The biggest deal that sounds so crazy. It was the biggest deal. But she needed to do it. I tried to explain it to my kids and they're like, it sounds like a fax machine. It's like explaining to someone the telegram. Yeah, you know, without without the telegram. We would never have gotten to where we are today is we don't get to where we are today without people like that. Making the hard stand because that moved things that got us talking about it and even even a deeper conversation. Because back then you either gay or you were straight. There was nothing in between. So Anne was talking about something very different because after she was with Ellen, she she was with a man. So they were saying like you're what sort of lesbian are you just did that to be with Ellen because she was famous, you know, and people forget. Anne was just as famous as her at the time. And so we didn't have any of that. And now look at all the colors of the rainbow that we have. So that's what's important to me is that is that is that a lot of people who didn't know who she was from these from these generations that are that are younger than us, I just think that it's important for them to be aware of what she did to make it so that we can live free. At least when I was looking up some things about it, it seems like the world is finally giving her her kudos, but way later in life. It was like they were dissecting the story. And they and to your point around, it sounded shocking. It's shocking and it shows you how culture has moved. But it seems like the the television studios were finally like acknowledging. Well, we'll see. And, you know, look, when in in in her accident, I'm like, you're doing it again. Like, come on, world. Right. When everybody was jumping on her back, jumping all over her. Like, you don't even have the facts. You're just assuming what based on what it was just a very unfair quits to judgment thing. And I and I do see it now swinging back now that we do have all the facts. And I am very hopeful that she is going to be remembered in the way that in the way that she should. Is there anything about that day that you feel people really miss the mark on that? Most people don't know. You mean about the accident? Yeah. We don't have all the answers, you know, and I don't know that we're ever going to, which is the which is the tricky part. I do know that it wasn't on purpose. She never would have. She never would have that she was somebody that not interested in that. Anne was a happy person that was not. She would never and nor would she ever put anybody else in danger. You know, that was one of the first things I said to her when I went to her hospital bed is, you know, nobody else was hurt, you know, nobody else was hurt because I knew that that would matter to her. She was never conscious, but but I said that anyways. And so, you know, still a bit of a mystery and it may always be. Yeah. Yeah. What other things are you working on? So we have the book coming out. What other projects are in the works? Well, we've got that we're working on the documentary, getting, putting that together right now. And is it like a story of her life? Is it? Yes. OK. Yeah, it's going to be a story of her life. And someone will play her or is it is a documentary? Yes. Perfect. Yes. Her first book, Call Me Crazy, we had worked a lot on making that into a movie. So that's something that, you know, I'd love to work with the family at some point because I know all of her ideas for that. The podcast is still going, I think. We've got a couple episodes out now and coming out. So we just have to decide how to do that. Is this stuff that you recorded before her death or after? After her death. So we'll see, you know, we'll see what, what, what people want to hear if we continue it, if, if, if not. But we still have like we call it our tribe and like they're still, they're still there, like whether we continue the podcast or not. Like we've created this community. We've created this really kind of cool community, not kind of a really cool community of people who it's all about kindness. It's like, that's our tribe. It's like, you know, we would, we would sign off each podcast and Ann would say, because she was more spiritual than I am, would say, you know, until next time, live in loving kindness. And I would say, just don't be a dick. And that was kind of like our yin and the yin and yang. And so she's having fun with me now from the other side, even as we're doing this interview with you, my whole body from the top of my head to my feet, I feel like, like. Oh, wow. You feel the energy is popping in from time to time. When I say something that I know she likes. OK, yeah. I'm telling you, it's what else is in the book that people would want to. Well, they got to read the book to see what's in the book. You should read the first chapter on the podcast. Yes. No, the book is the book is really about how she found ways to still remain hopeful and happy and positive and kind and honest and in her tricks to how she did that and then interwoven in there are stories of her life. So and how they relate and how, you know, for example, when I said that why she cared so much about honesty was because of how she was brought up. Well, that's why she cares about all those other things as well, too. So there's stories, stories of people who are kind to her and people who supported her. One of the things I should say that's that's in the book as she has 20 commitments. And so those are like things of how she says you should live by by these things. And one of the things that was very important to her was not to tolerate unkindness, not to tolerate abuse. And so it's a big thing and it's still in there. And I hope it's received right. But she was insistent on saying that she just wanted a community of zero tolerance, like we are not tolerating any of the crap anymore. We're not tolerating unkindness. We're not tolerating abuse. We tolerate too much and we shouldn't. So we had this big conversation because, again, I mean, PR, like I'm a little nervous about that community of zero top people are going to think you mean like, because we think about tolerance differently. And so I swear I had changed it in the book and then it comes out from the printer and it's like, create a community of zero. I'm like, mother fucker, how did you pull that off by keeping that in there? But then the more I started to think about it, the more I'm like, she's right. Like we do tolerate too much. It isn't about tolerance. Why should we have to tolerate? I totally agree. Is this weird for you? Like you personally, in the sense of like, it's this weird challenge you have where you've done so much with Ann, she's passed and you personally are a real part of keeping her legacy alive. But at the same time, that's got to be incredibly difficult because you have to grieve. You are grieving a part of you might feel like this is selfish, but it's also selfless. It's also for I don't feel like it's selfish. I feel like but it's got to be hard. You know, it's one of those things that it has to be done. So it's like I'm not going to overthink. And look, I'm telling you, I say that I'm fearless. A lot of the stuff that I've had to do is totally out of my, you know, I had to do the audible for the book. I've never done that. She wrote it and she wrote it in like form where I have to I have to have the voice of Harrison Ford, I have to have the voice of God. I have to be like interesting, you know, so can you give us the voice? Yeah, can you can you replicate it? Well, Ann, you know, like, you know, and then like, how does that sound? You have to God is more like this, you know, like, I don't fucking know. But like, but you have to do you tap into your inner voice actor. But it's like that that's scared. Like that should have been scared. That should have been intimidating to me, you know, but it wasn't. I just gave a new purpose. I just did it because I knew I had to do it and I knew I had to do it really well for her. And it's funny because, you know, I was I'm never somebody who wants to be. I'm not somebody who wants to be in front of camera. I was always even with the podcast. I thought that it should be Ann Hayes podcast. And I should be like Robin Quivers chiming in every once in a while from the sidelines, you know, and she made us have my name in the name. She's like, if you don't have your name and if your name isn't in the name, then it's just my show. I'm like, exactly, you know, like it is your show. And she's like, no, it's better together with Ann and Heather. And I'm like, you just did that because my name rhymes with together, right? But she insisted on we'd be we'd be at a red carpet thing. And she pushed me onto the road. I'm like, nobody wants my why are you doing this? She's like, you haven't like, but I don't like it. She's like, but you have she always wanted me. She always wanted me front and center. So it's funny to me that now I'm having to do all this stuff and be more front facing for her because I never wanted to. And I was criticized for that in the in the beginning. They're like, it just made me laugh, you know, like, oh, writing, writing Ann's coattails to try to be famous. I'm like, I don't want to be famous. That's why I didn't do a single interview during the accident, because I don't want anybody to piece me together as anybody, you know, that's not my goal. That's not my jam. And so it's just funny to me now that because of this, I'm forced to I'm forced to do this and she's probably loving it. But you're channeling some of her energy in the same way that that you said you you would normally have been fearful of doing the voices. But you had no choice. You had to this is how it had to be. It's the same energy that that when she stepped on to that red carpet with Alan, she had no choice. She had to be that way. It was how she would be. So like it's very it's coming full circle now. When does the book come out? Well, the books are you going to be out by the time this comes out. Good. OK. So the book is out. The book is out. The book is out. It's on Amazon and it's called Call Me Ann. Anything else we should know? Just that she was awesome. She was an awesome human and go watch all her movies. You'd be her stuff is so, so, so good. Your favorite movie that she this is a joke between us because I never watched her movies. And so it was funny. I would be like her PR. She'd be like, what? I'm like, oh, I didn't see that one. Like, you were the work, you know, like, why do I need to know that? Like, I know you're great. So since her passing now, I watched six days and seven nights for the first time. I have to rewatch that. And it's fantastic. My favorite movie is Cedar Rapids. And for a couple of reasons, because it's just a good movie and also because I haven't seen a lot of the other ones yet. It was the first one she got like her big break in to get back into a studio picture. But I've seen her. I've seen her in all the things that she's done since I've been working with her. I just haven't seen all the old stuff. There's a lot on the horizon. Yes. Thank you, Heather. Yeah, appreciate your coming up. Thanks, guys. If you made it this far, I bet you loved the episode. So you should join our YouTube channel membership for only two ninety and a month. This gets you access to one, the whole on a bridge conversation. Two, you get the episodes on Monday, one day earlier. Three, you get two additional entries to our giveaways. Check out our Instagram to see what we've given away. And four, you get access to seasons one through three. That's over a hundred episodes of wisdom and life changing advice. What are you waiting for? Join.