 There's a lot of people in this room who are either double majors or maybe have a minor in theater, but they are majors in the business world. They're anxious to hear what you have to say. So can we start our advice portion? If I knew them what I know now or just really good advice that you can give everybody here in Parliang Theater Schools into the corporate world. So first off it'll be okay. When I graduated in 2009 the economy had just entered this new realm in 2008. So we're coming into it and out of it. So I understand what you're going through and what you're up against and what your parents are putting pressure on you about, so it will be okay. And so I think the biggest thing that I wish I knew then, which I knew now, is that whatever you major in is not what you will do. So if you are an, I don't know, if you're an English major, what are you going to do? English? That's not a verb. If you're an account, if you're going to be, some things are. You can be an accountant, you can be an economist, you can be a biologist, but it's more about what you do and the experiences and the internships you have rather than what's just on a piece of paper defining what you think you should do. So there's no one path, there's no if I do this, then I'll do that. As you can see, we've all had a similar based education and so many different paths, so many different ways we've gone. So it's really about how you spin it and about how you spend your time in your internship. So that's probably the biggest thing I can say from what I like to see when I'm hiring undergrads, where entry level roles is as much experience as you can. I don't expect you to be a whiz at everything you do, but I expect people to use their time and undergrad wisely, get internships, get experience, shadow, whatever you can do, it's a cafeteria line, just try as much as you can and that's really going to help form to what you really want to do, which you shouldn't know coming out of your senior year in college. It's something that develops much more over time. So get as much experience as you can and also with that, it's really about using your theater education into so much more than that. And you have to educate the non-theater people of the world of how much work you do and everything that you do. So right off the bat, you have an upper hand on so many other undergraduates, people fighting for the same jobs and internships you do because as someone involved in theater education or if you were doing theater productions, you are working in high pressure situations, you are multitasking, you are communicating, you're creative, you're doing project management. Most of you probably can look someone straight in the eye and project with a nice voice. These are things that a lot of people don't have here at Fairfield and at other undergraduate programs too. So you have to spin what you are doing currently into something that the business, the non-theater world can understand. So when you're thinking about, when you're prepping for a job interview, when you're thinking about things, maybe just even after you do a show, think about the experience. If you journal it, just unpack it and then try to transcribe that into maybe not using techno theater terms. So someone might not know what a prop master is. Someone might not know what a stage manager is. But really think about that, how it can transcend into, I'm doing project management, I'm working with my peers, I'm managing this and creative, I'm doing timelines, do everything, whatever you're trying to do for the job. I would sometimes, I still do it now when I'm going on interviews. Not that I'm interviewing, but say something to a roommate who doesn't know anything about the inner works of theaters or a family member. And see if they get it, see if they get what you're trying to do without the theater jargon, because it really does. Everything you do transcends to other things. It's just spinning it into something that makes you so much more of a competitive candidate than you might think you are. So to mention the theater stuff, 100% in your interviews, in your resumes, in your cover letters, it is a basis of training that a lot of people in arts and sciences can't get in the business program and other things, because you are a leader in no matter what you're doing in a theater production. And it's really just about understanding that and then being able to communicate it to myself, whoever is interviewing you. So I think that's the biggest thing, just knowing your worth in theater education, theater production is huge. And again, you are here and everyone else is here because of your experiences you have with theater. So get out there, but know what you're doing. Try to understand from a bigger sense of how this connects to maybe something other than theater, if that's what you're passionate about. Yeah. Thank you. Chris. I have to piggyback up what you said. My husband went to Emerson College, and he graduated with a degree in musical theater. And I met him seven years ago, but he wasn't an actor. He had just stopped acting the year before I met him. And he is now the chief of staff for a senator. So he works in politics. And he's very successful and he's very good at it. And when he first started working in politics, he went on an interview, and this council member said to him, I see you have a degree in theater. What skills do you have from that? And in the interview, Tim says, I'm using them right now. I didn't get the job. What you said is like, what you're learning here is your step above everybody else, because you know how to work together as a team. You know how to work hard. You know how to multitask. You know how to project your voice and command a room and be confident. And that goes so far in interviews. But to answer your question about, I would probably take courses in areas that scare you. Take an economics course. Take a communications course. Take a course in accounting. I know it's boring. It's terrible. Let's take it. And use those things to, when you're taking that course, think to yourself, how can I apply this to making theater? Because when you make theater, you're doing everything. So you need to know a little bit about everything. And sit there in your economics course and say, how is this theory that I'm learning in economics applied to theater? Or when you're taking communication course, how can I tie this into theater? And that way, you'll get a really well-rounded view of everything. And summer internships. I found them very helpful. There are a lot of internships out there that pay and that provide housing. So if you financially can't afford it, do some research, because a lot of places will pay for your housing and will give you a stipend. And it's manageable and it's doable and it's helpful in the long run. It's also good for just networking. If you're interning for a theater company and you show your worth and you do a great job, when you get out of college and there's a position opening, they might call you. They might watch you back. So keep that in mind. And in terms of the whole grad school thing, we're talking about grad schools, you could go to grad school for free. I went to a three-year NFA program for free. I didn't. I would tell you that. You can do that. There's NETCs, as you mentioned. Does everyone know what this is? You go to a conference and you just do one generic application. And you interview at a hotel conference room with 10 different universities. And it's a fantastic thing to do. But you could go to grad school for free if you want to do that. So put that money thing aside. Don't worry about that. That would be my advice. Yeah. It's up to you. It's interesting. There seems to be a running theme here. And that's at one point in each one of our careers, we came up to a wall where we felt as though there was something that we didn't know what we didn't know, but we knew we needed to know it. And I think that's something that I didn't. There are a couple of things. But when I was here, I didn't realize that, well, this was the end of my education. I mean, I really thought when I was here that, well, this my education is over now. I'm going to go work. And it never, ever stops. I, you know, in the last few years, I raised in the low seven figures of investors' money to make projects of my own happen. And I still probably don't really know. But I teach myself how to take someone who believes in you, take their money, and turn it into something viable, and handle it appropriately, and then give a return on an investment. And it's interesting that I'm 44 years old at this point, and I'm still learning these things all the time. And you have to know that your education is just ongoing, and you're constantly going to be seeking out people, and experiences, and programs, and degrees that will give you either an edge, or will educate you to figure out how you can have a diverse and enriching career. The other thing that I've been thinking about a lot is I remember sitting in this room and thinking, well, wouldn't it be amazing to have a career as an actor, or in the theater, or in film or television, and thinking, well, that just doesn't happen for people like me. And I'm just like nobody from the suburbs who went to a little school and likes theater, but I'm not exceedingly good looking. I'm not, you know, no one's going to hire me for my abs. It doesn't happen, because there's that weird adage, and I think it's to keep you out of the club, which is like, oh, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I honestly am here to tell you that it's complete and total BS. It has nothing to do with who you know, and everything to do with what you know. So in a lot of ways there are these, okay, it's the difference between an LA actor and a New York actor. An LA actor is always like, what can you do for me? What can you do for me? And a New York actor is like, come see my show. You know what I mean? They have something they've figured out how to do that they want to offer you. And so in a lot of ways, like tonight, I would encourage you to find us on social media and get involved in the conversations and the sort of worlds that are existing around our lives that are now all public. And but wait to ask your favor, you know what I mean? Like don't be like, what can you do for me right now? I'm lost and I don't know what to do. I want to pick your brain, which to me is just like, my brain is so fried, you know, don't pick my brain. What I would love is for you to sort of have a sense of what the world is that someone at my age is now moving in and start to like figure out, well, okay, there's all these little steps in between, but I know I can offer this. So, you know, if it's that you've helped someone with a bunch of short films and you just like ran around as a PA and just be like, listen, if you guys need a PA in your next film project, please consider me and here's my resume. That sort of thing. What can I do for free in your theater company? Like what can I, you know, and I think it's a matter of sort of like finding a way to bring what you have at the stage that you're in. And a lot of it, and I'm gonna finish this up now, a lot of it is that you're gonna be working for free at first period. And that's whether you're continuing your education, which I highly encourage. And that doesn't necessarily mean a graduate degree. I mean, there are part-time conservatory programs all over the city. There are random classes that you could be taking that you think can help develop a certain skill. So, you know, I'm gonna wrap up there, but that's sort of like all of the jumble thoughts that I've had. All that. And, oh gosh, the first thing that, the thing that is like kind of esoteric, but really the most important thing I wanna say to you guys is you are the only you in the world. That is what you have to offer. Comparison is the death of art and the death of happiness. You're gonna go into a world no matter what you choose to do. I mean, this is particularly, I'm coming at this particularly as an actor who makes my money in the business, so it's very complicated on that level. But I'm telling you, I see this for all of my friends. You know, all human beings go through this thing where they look across the way and they go, oh, I should be where that person is or I want what that person has or why don't I do it like that? And that is a vortex that you can be in for the rest of your life. And it's so tempting because we wanna have goals and we wanna identify the things that we want and oh, I want a career like that. And in this business you're always told like find the person who's your type or the person who has the career like what you want or the person who wrote the book that's like the book you wanna write, whatever it is. That's all well and good but you have to develop a system within yourself for limiting the amount of time you spend looking at what other people do because you can't, you can only do you. And when you get to the place where you start doing you, the response that you get is so overwhelming and supportive and it's kind of similar to what you're saying about instead of what can you do for me, it's like here's what I can do for you. You start identifying that stuff now because it's all gonna feed into what you end up being later. And I'm not on Facebook which is a deliberate choice in my life because I think that it's a lot of people shaping a story that they want you to believe is the truth. And somebody once made a comparison to me about how social media is everyone's highlight reel in your own mind, you're always watching your blooper reel. You're always watching the bad things you do, the things that weren't right, the unattractive moments, the mistakes. And then you're out there looking at everybody's Facebook and going, gosh, everybody's doing it better than me. So that's a myth. So just be on Facebook, be on social media. I'm on Twitter and I have a website and I'm very easy to find but that was a dangerous place for me. It really was and particularly as a working actor in New York. It's like everybody's writing their own reviews every day. It's like one big good selfie angle. Oh, it's ridiculous. And it can be really, it can be tough. And I'm married to another actor and learning about how to live and be in love with another actor is like the great journey of my life. And both of our careers. Managing those moments and starting to learn, his successes and failures have nothing to do with my successes and failures or it's all the same. You know, his successes are my successes and do we really have any failures? Not really. But it's so important to find your quiet place, your strength, the people who are real with you and anybody who is not, do not waste your time especially if you're with them because you think they can do something for your career. There are a lot of people, again in all businesses who will use their position and their authority to make you feel less to get things out of you for free. That's different than you doing an internship or doing a show for free because you're passionate about it and you're being treated well and you're around people you like. That's awesome. You don't have to get anything out of that except feeling great at the end of the day. But there are a lot of very dark corners in this world and we're so passionate that we walk into those dark corners like, hi, where did the lights go? You know, we're not the kind of people who walk into things with a big suit of armor. We walk into things with our heart all exposed and what can I do and ready to go to make something and hang on to that with everything you have because that's what gets you through. So really quick, my anecdote is that my first and only thus far Broadway show and Ron, which was supposed to run forever. We were all under contract for a year. Don't make any plans. This is the biggest show to hit the West End and blah, blah, blah, and we closed in two weeks. So good. But it was fabulous, guys. Thank you. And I, when that show closed and Ben Brantley decided it wasn't his taste. He likes the London projector better. Yeah, yeah, I laid on the floor of my apartment in Hell's Kitchen for like two weeks and with like a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of jacked in. I mean, it was classic. I thought I was like a lame stretch. I don't know who I thought it was. Like, I remember answering the phone on the floor and I'm like, ha, ha, ha, you know. And one of my best friends was living in LA at the time and she said, you know, your career is never gonna be defined by how you deal with your successes. Your career is gonna be defined by how you cope with your failures. Absolutely. And that is the best advice, like practical advice that anyone ever gave me. Whether your failures are real or only perceived, it's how you choose to regroup, rebuild, focus on something new, find a new project, whatever it is. Even to step back for a while. Lots of times, this business is exhausting and you just have to step back from it for a minute. And all of those things, the things that you do to rebuild yourself and that's a skill that you can take anywhere, learning how to do that. I mean, you know, I go on 500 job interviews a year easily, ugh, makes me a little nauseous when I think about it that way, but it's true. And I don't get most of those jobs, but I get enough of them. And the ones that I get are the ones I choose to remember and focus on. I don't remember any of the ones I didn't get or if they're like a good party story. Can I piggyback on that really quick? The Verizon job, they interviewed 1,800 guys in five different cities, auditioned to all of them. And I was the last appointment on the last day after they were like, let's see like 20 more guys. And you know, I'm sort of funny looking. You know, I have a squeaky voice and I'm a little effeminate and like all of these things that like me, you know, I'm not, no one's gonna sell soap with me. You know what I mean? Like no one is gonna be able to sell anything with this. And I got that job. And I found out only a couple years later that there was actually like a scientific list of 30 criteria that whoever got this job had to check every box. And it just happened that I, they took the 30 boxes and that was it. And I got the job. I mean like immediately and signed to a contract for years and years and years. And the lesson that taught me is that it's not personal. That it's just showing up with everything you have in that moment and knowing that if all the parts are aligned, you'll get that job. And then the 500 auditions, that's your job. That's your job. Yes. And an opportunity to act and get better everyone. Yes, exactly. And thank you for reminding me because that was the other thing that I wanted to say is like the art, I'll wrap up really quickly, but the art of this business, the thing that you love is very different than the business of this business. Do not confuse the two. Not everyone is made for the business of this business. And if you don't want to do that, you can have the art of it for the rest of your life but you have to make the choices that allow you to have that. I have friends who came to New York for a year and were like, I can't do this. And these people have started theater companies in small towns and small cities and moved to Europe and taught and had these incredibly fulfilling careers in art because the business of this business, I mean I, you know, LA, forget it, but like even New York, it's tough. It's really, really tough. And I'm happy to talk about that if that's kind of another topic. But that would be my advice is that I think somewhere along the line, it became that you teach when you, okay, you didn't make it. Or that was that thing you had to do to pay the bills. And I think that that's exactly right with Janice saying which is, it's not true. We said, McKinney and I hosted a session at a conference with Marty a few years back called Those Who Can't Do and Those Who Can't Teach Too because it is about finding for you what's your, what's, I mean it sounds very crunchy, like what's your piece? What makes you happy? Is it, and whatever part of that this is, if it has nothing to do with theater, that's great because if it makes you happy, it's hard out there, right? We'll figure that out in a few years. So don't feel like you've resigned anything or if you don't go to New York, you're not a failure to the theater world or if you stay wherever you are or you do teach or you work in a camp or if you work in the box office just because you wanted to stay connected in some way or if you choose to not do it any of it at all because like you said, the skills you're getting now are already pushing you so much further than half the people entering the job market. So be confident in your choices and also know that you're young and what the choice you make next year does not define your rest of your life. You can come back to this in five years and six years. You can decide to go and realize it's not for you and move home and that's okay too. And I think we saw that with a lot of our friends who went and kind of went home with their head between their tail, you know, whatever that tail between their legs. I didn't make it. I'll go back and I'll just do this and don't tell anybody and this was before Facebook, right? So you could stay quiet and hide and time and time again, we see that and that's just not true and the country is very big and we've got people graduating in this program are doing great work in like Jan said in very small towns or in Chicago or in LA or in New York or just wherever. So find out the elements of why you've decided to be a theater major. There's a reason or a minor or whatever it is you are. There's a reason that brought you here. There's a reason that made you say post high school. Yes, I want to continue this. So what is, what do you love about it? And then find some path that lets you do that every day in some fashion. If it doesn't pay the bills, I have to say and we've been friends since 1994, which is a whole other story about why I met January. But we, I was one of those friends. I remember sitting in a coffee shop with you going like, I can't, I just can't do this anymore. I can't do the business. I give her so much credit and she has, she has cleaned floors. She's been on Broadway and then cleans floors. Like it's not, you know, you have to commit to it if that's what you want and she's an amazing, those who do it, it's amazing. It just wasn't for me and I wanted a family and a house and I wanted a salary and I wanted a lot of other things. So you just have to make the choices that are right for you and they're all good and your parents will be fine. Your parents will be fine. Don't worry about your parents. You'll take out a loan, you'll pay the minimum balance, it's gonna be fine. Seriously, it's a hundred bucks a month, let it go. And no one has any security. Exactly. Who has any security? Oh, I do. The entire country has been about dismantling unions. Nobody has the strongest unions or the acting unions. I mean, honestly, I mean, at this point, it seems to me that like, since there is no security, nobody stays in a job for 40 years anymore. I mean, the reality is, if you are completely and totally passionate about something, you're gonna find a way to make a living doing it. Eventually, it may take some time. You know what I did when I got right out of school, my parents were freaked, because I was raised to be careful. But this, so, I like made zero dollars my first year and managed to like, I know, seriously. But I opened an IRA with like a hundred bucks that I got for Christmas. And I told my parents I'm starting to have a retirement plan. And they were like, oh, okay. So it sort of suggested that I was looking at this as a business. And I started with this financial advisor, who I went to this day. It was like the best, single best decision she ever made as far as I'm concerned. But she thought I was a joke, you know what I mean? And then, but then a couple years, I kept coming every year. I was contributing, you know, and I started to get to the point where I can contribute to this IRA up to the max that you can contribute and write off. And slowly but surely, I started to make a living and then I was investing. And you know, pretty much I got to, you know, I could retire, I can retire. And it was because I treated this pursuit as a business from the outset. I didn't know how it was gonna look. And I certainly didn't have business cards and I didn't even have headshots. But I figured out that that was gonna have to be the approach that like I'm treating whatever this thing is as a business. And my parents are relaxed. I mean, I think they started to believe it was gonna happen because it looked like it had a little infrastructure to it. You know, so. And it helps you to do that too. It's not just about like, I mean, getting your parents off your back is great, but if you tell yourself it's a business, it's not just random, you know. Oh, I don't know when I'm gonna be making money. So, well, when I do make money, when I'm making money, when there's $50, it goes in this place. And just the structure of that changes the way you perceive your own, how seriously you take yourself. And it goes beyond perception because it's this thing called compound interest. And basically, you know what I mean? That's why you need that economics course. But seriously, I mean, I don't know anything about economics, but I can tell you this empirically that if you actually start saving, and I mean like the 10 extra dollars you have at the end of the month, if you save that instead of spending it on bad beer, like seriously, I mean, you should drink a lot of beer. Definitely, but it actually does create freedom. You know, there will be a point not too long into your career where you can actually make some creative decisions that aren't out of desperation because you have money that you've been putting away for yourself. I was just gonna say the thing I wish I had known, and this was because it didn't really exist yet, was this idea of being a teaching artist, that if you do decide to make the trek to the city or even here, I mean, Westport Playhouse I work with, they have an education. Most of your major theater companies have an education or an outreach department, and they all need somebody, Hartford Stage, the Bushnell, everybody locally, Long Wharf, they all do. It's a great way to make money. So even if education's not your thing, and this isn't the path you wanna go, I was making $125 an hour as a teaching artist. The range is anywhere from 55 to 175, depending on how long you stay and your experience and as those things go. But it's a great kind of alternative or supplemental to waiting tables, so that's a great thing. The other thing is while I was here, the greatest thing I did was, well, I did everything I could, and I think now it's part of your curriculum, which it wasn't, there was no infrastructure at the time, but I did sound, light, I did everything, I hung these lights, costumes, I taped your bathing suit to you. My freshman year, and just any experience you can get, because it all goes, because you'll leave here and your resumes will be small because you're young, as they should be, but you can put everything, I worked at the Quick Center as a house manager, I mean, literally anything you can do goes on that resume, and I was offered three jobs, I mean, I don't tell you that to say how great I am, I'm telling you that to say it was because of TF, it was because I was on the board, it was because I did PR, because Lynn taught me how to hang a poster straight, because that was a challenge for me in the beginning. They were always sideways, all across campus. That's because your class is close. Because I was always, my head's like an inner ear thing, it's like, but take every opportunity you can. What's great about TF that you already all know, because you're here, is that it's small, and that you've created this ensemble and you don't even know it, and you've created this long standing ensemble that goes here into everyone else who graduates, and I know when I first graduated, Marty would say, oh, do you know so-and-so? She works for this, and there would be an email, and then they would call, and oh, you're from TF, and let's have a drink, and I do it now, and I know I love it, and so I think start there, find out who's doing the kind of work you wanna do, don't be afraid to ask for a coffee. People love to talk about themselves. I mean, didn't you end up working for MTC too? I did. And you're now meeting them, because I said to her, oh my God, you want, we have a history of TF folks at MTC, tell them. I think John Power was first. John Power was first. Oh, you guys need to talk about John Power. Danny Williams was first. And then Colleen got a job there. Yeah, yeah, through the intern program. There's been at least a dozen at this time. It's true, and because in Fairfield, there's so many of these, oh, I'm not at a big university, I'm not at a big theater school, this is, Fairfield goes a long way in certain circles, in certain things, and especially in this area, is extremely well respected in the theater industry and not did anything. And so you never know who's gonna pop up and MTC just has a little soft spot for Fairfield. Honestly, honestly, I've been out of this school like almost 20 years now. It's just a fancy sounding name. Like, you say to people like you went to Fairfield, they're like, oh yeah, Fairfield. I know you have no idea what I'm talking about. Like, if you say it with confidence, and then if they ask you anything, you're like, oh, it's Jesuit. New England, they're like, oh my God, yeah, like the Pope, you know? It's like, it's to sell it. I have to say this, so now, in my job, I certify theater teachers for the state, and so you have to have some sort of BFA, B.A. In theater, and I look at probably over my eight years, I've probably looked at over a thousand theater transcripts. And I'm not just saying this because I'm here today sitting next to Marni and Lynn's here. I'm not kidding, you are getting an amazing liberal arts education. The fact that you have to do everything that when the state says a theater teacher has to know these things, you'd be surprised at how deficient some of the transcripts that come from the big schools, from, you know, we all know them, that come out that they have not had a well-rounded education, and particularly in theater history, in lighting design, they have none of these courses. They know nothing about it. And so I have to basically remediate my theater teachers, and they have to take some undergrad courses, and they have to go back and take them so that they'd be qualified for the state to teach this work. So that's something too that I didn't know then, that I was walking out really prepared. Yeah, because you can't do liberal arts in grad school. You can only do liberal arts now. I didn't even understand that structurally before I graduated, you know what I mean? It's so much better than a BFF. Do your liberal arts, embrace the fact that that's your opportunity, and then if you want to do more acting, do it in grad school, if you want to do more design, do it in grad school. You want to write more, do it in grad school, but this is your shot at liberal arts. I agree with you 100%. I said this to Maggie back inside. I said, you know, the faculty here have put together a really good program, and you know, I didn't realize it until after I got out. I was like, well, I don't really want to do it. I don't want to be a designer. Like why am I taking these design courses? But it's actually helped me as a manager. It's from you as a theater educator. It's helped me as a company manager and as a general manager, because I need to straddle the world of, I work for the producer, but I also am at the theater every night with the crew and all the department heads are like, oh, we need a bulb change. And I'm like, okay, you know, and I need to go up to the producer and be like, okay, we need a bulb change. We have this, we have that. It's like just, I'm not an expert in carpentry or electrics, but like I have a general understanding and that's perfect enough for to get by that I could communicate and I could translate theater speak to the investors, to the producers. And it's really helpful and I didn't realize it until I got out. And also having more than the sort of dabbler's sense of the context in which we create things, knowing your theater history is so important. Again, I probably didn't know how important that was until I was in a position to have to sort of reference something or hear someone else's reference, you know, being in a position where I'm selling myself and knowing what they're talking about when somebody says, you know, in the paycock or, you know, whatever it happens to be and like thinking back to, you know, I think this context that you created in my life, it's invaluable. I know what every one of those books still looks like. You know, I really do. And I know where, you know, long days journey and tonight, I know where I was sitting in the library when I read it the first time and for your class and taking notes in the margin and I still have all of those books, but having that kind of context so you know what you're talking about. And let me tell you, I just, I mean, I literally just came back two days ago from Sundance where I had a film and that is another context right there. I'm realizing that everybody in this room is making a film and is now showcasing a film that will determine the sort of course of what people are creating that will reach a broader audience in the next five years. And so it's being able to sort of suss out from the program context and realizing that none of us creates in a bubble. Like we all, you know, it's like, you know, Carl Lagerfeld, one of this sort of like savant qualities he had, you know, the designer Carl Lagerfeld. For Chanel. Yeah, he could tell you what every single designer in Paris was gonna do for their next spring show, their next fall show, and then the year to come because he had such a connection to the context and the zeitgeist. And I think you can't go wrong by just knowing what other people are doing. And the only way you can put that into any kind of context is by knowing your history. So just read the plays, read the plays. Do your homework. Yeah, do your homework. Sorry about that. This might be the golden moment for questions. So what are you burning to ask? Yes, Stephanie. Well, somewhere like, what was the fire inside of me that kept you going? Rent, you have to pay your rent, right? I mean, you have to, I thought you were talking about the musical. Well, I mean. All of my, when I was, when I was a recent grad, all of my friends were just miserable in their jobs and I was happy. I liked what I was doing. Like all, and I just sort of thinking like, oh, my friends are miserable. I was like, I don't like their jobs. I was like, I like my job. I like coming to work every day. I just never feel like I get it right. And I just want to keep getting, I just want to try harder. I want to get it right. I'm like, and have you seen the Great Beauty? Gran Baleta, it was the Academy Award, Foreign Academy Award winner last year. It's this absolutely exquisite film about this man who wrote one great novel and is now in his 60s and has not followed it up with anything except for celebrity interviews, like magazines. And everyone keeps asking him, when are you gonna come out with this next thing? And the whole film is about him waiting for the Great Beauty, like, you know. And I just, I just, I just, I just want to create something excellent. And I feel like I only ever get a C, you know what I mean? And I think that's the, that's the creative drive, right? Because getting it right is like dead energy. I mean, you're done. So I think that's the drive. And if you have that, like, I mean, usually the guy who walks out of an audition is like nailed it. He totally didn't, you know what I mean? It's the one, it's the one who's like, oh, I just didn't hit that fucking note. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. And they're like, okay, so what can I control about what went wrong? First of all, what went wrong? And then what can I control about it? What was out of my control? And what will I do so I'll be better at it next time? That person's the one who has the long haul career. You know, and I just am constantly in the state of reassessing what worked, what didn't. What was in my control and what wasn't because so much is out of your control. But knowing what you can focus on to like do it better next time is the key to it. And I think it's the drive. It's the drive of the artist to like, to get it better, to get it right. You don't know, you won't be happy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I had some pretty extraordinary opportunities to work with people who are just the best at what we all do. And being in the presence of those people, those are like holy moments in my life. And I know, August Wilson, who I revere among all playwrights, passed away about 14 months before I did his play in New York. And I never got to meet him, but I know him so well. I've done three of his plays now. I just did, Joe Turner's Come and Gone in LA with Felicia Rashad directing it. And the actors I got to share a stage with, it was like church. It was like better than anything. I sat on that stage every night and learned more about humanity and had a meeting with August Wilson every night. You know what I mean? Like you're, with this thing that we do, we go into a room where there's nothing. There's nothing in this room right now. And we make life in this room. And I remember when I was doing my first Off-Broadway show, I was down at the Actors Playhouse, which I don't even think is a theater anymore. And there's a bunch of people in their 20s with no idea what they were doing. Couldn't figure out why anyone had given us money to do anything. Don't tell them. We don't know what we're doing. And I remember realizing, I'll never forget this. I remember realizing standing by stage right before our first preview that the feeling that I have before I go on stage, I'm gonna cry, sorry. The feeling I have before I go on stage at the beginning of the run of a show is exactly like the feeling I have when I fall in love. It's like, oh my gosh, my heart's racing. My palms are sweating. I'm like freaking out. I can't organize my thoughts. I'm just going toward all these, it's like that rush of emotion. And that's, not every project that you get to work on is August Wilson or Shakespeare or whatever. But you learn what you can from the moments when you're kind of treading water and just doing stuff that has come to you. Maybe that'll be interesting. Maybe that'll keep me busy. Maybe that'll pay the bills. But then to have those moments where you get to work on Shakespeare, you get to be next to an actor who you've watched from afar for a decade on stage and then all of a sudden you're sitting in a room with them trying to figure out the script. I mean, yeah, that's what keeps me going. And you can bring that level of consciousness to anything. In an odd way, I have this one friend who's a theater director and teacher in New York. And she's convinced that there's just sex and money, meaning like you can get the sexy job or the love project or the labor of love that people talk about, or there's money. It's just like one, or that's the money job. And I just, first of all, I spent so much time doing a money job that before I committed to doing it for another chunk of years, I was like, how am I gonna bring that feeling, consciousness to the work so that, I mean, honestly, the money is not a very good motivator. It really isn't. And there's this, okay, so there's this feeling, you know when you don't feel good about what you did in the show and like the curtain call is kind of a moment of embarrassment. All right, you know that feeling, right? I have no idea what you're talking about. You've always been brilliant. I just wanted, you know, I was doing all these, I would do like 50 commercials a year and I was working with these like amazing directors who were doing like important films and had Academy Awards and, you know, cinematographers who've worked with the great directors. And but it's just their money job. And I didn't want to be embarrassed when I left the set. And I was like, oh, I've been doing a really good job of like imitating what I thought they wanted to see for years and doing a good job. That was money doing, I kept my job. But I wanted to leave the set like feeling as though I had brought the consciousness and artistry to the work as silly as that sounds in a commercial. But I knew and I was so that I could leave the set with my head held high. And that was all about going back to the basics and the work and as silly as it sounds like doing a scene analysis on that one page that I would get and doing a serious like conscious scene analysis, bringing my theater training to play on that one page where most of the time I didn't have any dialogue at all. I just had some stupid expression that I was supposed to give. And I was like, I want to have that feeling so that I know that I can leave here with my integrity intact, you know? And I think you can do that in almost any job and like the dumbest part. And so that it's not so few and far between, right? Absolutely. And also I just have to say hearing you say that right now makes a lot of sense because you had an extra, I don't need to tell you that was an extraordinarily long run and I guarantee you that's not because that's because of the work you was doing. Like, you know, especially with, you know, commercial, basically spokespeople and pitch people, people get annoyed and they get tired of watching it. And so the agency goes, oh my God, we need to change things up. But like, how many years was it? I mean, I've been under contract for 13 years. That's insane. That doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It's a record. It's a record. I don't know. It might be. I think it's probably the number of spots because there were so many of them is a record. I mean, in terms of length, probably not. Working on it. Yeah. But that's, I mean, those two things are not dependent on each other. And so you're hearing it right here. That's proof that if you decide to bring your work to the simplest thing you do, it will pay you, not dividends, I mean cash, but like it will pay you dividends in more work and more happiness and probably then more money too. It's true. Another question. You know, can I throw one thing out there too? Please. All of this, I know, just seems so sort of like 30 steps away from where you're gonna be when you land with your diploma in your hand. I mean, honestly, the skill to develop is being the person that someone would trust with their cat while they're on vacation. Honestly, because I look around this room and I'm like, you know, any one of you could be on the set of a film that I'm producing working and the one who walks with this energy of like, oh yeah, you can trust me with that. I've got it. I got this, you know. That's the one I'm gonna be like. Hillary, go, if you could just, she needs, and if you could just do that thing. If you're the one I go to, you're the one who on the next project will be like, you have to have Hillary and this time we can actually pay her. You know what I mean? More book, you know? And so I just feel like that's the skill to start developing now. Instead of being like the way you probably feel a little bit, which is like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Honestly, I mean, all this sounds great, but like, I don't know how to pay rent. Like, I don't know, pay rent. You know what I mean? It's like, all this stuff. So, I mean, I think part of it is kind of developing that. Be the person that someone wants to help, you know? And do that. I mean, the person that wants your help. You know what I mean? So it's, and those are skills you develop now. When I was, cause being a TA is like being an actor where you're just kind of always kind of looking for the next job and you get on a lot of rosters and they want you into schools and you get, good work gets work. And people will say, you wanna work, which I'm, she's nice. She's low maintenance, she's nice. She'll show up, she'll do good work. She'll stay out of your hair. That's, it's the same idea. It's being competent. Somebody who shows up on time early. Yeah, it just does good work and then you get the next job and the next job and the next job and you figure it out from there, but. You know, empathy is like, one of like the actor's great tools. And so use that in the room with people who are in a position to help you. Meaning like, anticipate what their needs might be. What is that? And, you know, that's a practice of empathy in a way. You know, and that's a skill that you already have because, you know, if you're an actor, I mean it's just a, it's something that you're constantly nurturing. And so use it in those situations too. And I think, you know, approaching a situation and anticipating what they're gonna need. It's gonna be really helpful in an acting job and like kind of any other job too. Just because that person is perhaps hiring you or is in what you perceive as a position of power. Doesn't mean that they're happy, that they don't have needs, that they don't have insecurities, that they don't think they're doing a seed job with everything they're doing. And if you're open to that and exuding empathy, that's a great thing. Yes, Carol. So I decided I'm graduating social communication in Brazil but theater was always my passion and I didn't get to study when I was in Brazil because, whatever. I would like to know your advice for people that just from other fields, if they can contribute or can, how they can change or how they can go to work in that, like how you could go to join you in all this magic that you're saying. I mean, primarily be the person who I would trust with my cat. Honestly, I mean, I think that's the way in, right? I mean, when you are on a deadline and you know something has to get done and it absolutely can't be messed up and you're, aren't you gonna, I mean any one of us who go to the person that they know they can trust with their cat. Be eager, be proactive. Yeah. And I see. Yeah. Hold it there. Yeah. Know how to write a grant and I can tell you that anyone I know who works in like downtown theater is gonna be like, we'd like you to be in our company. You know how to write grants? We love you. Take a grant writing course. Yeah, big time. And not necessarily, you can take grant writing courses anywhere. It doesn't have to be a college level course. Yeah. But I can guarantee you, I can guarantee you that you'll be the one who works. If you know how to write a grant proposal, every downtown theater company in New York will know within a year and a half that you're the person to call. If they need, you could, if I were gonna invest in a business right now, it would be investing in a small consulting firm that does nothing but grant proposals for downtown theater. And it's actually not a mysterious thing. It's just something you have to devote the time to learning how to do and then devote the time to writing many proposals because you're not gonna get every grant. And also researching the right foundations. Yeah. But there are tools, there are websites and where you can go and, I think it's actually, TCG actually has something where you can go and research all different, a theater company could go and research all these different foundations and find the one that's right for them and then get the writing, get the writing to them. Get your proposal. Ah, Lin! Thank you all for coming back. You're so marvelous to see each one through again. But my question is, the question that Nolan is asking is if you get an email or a phone call from any one of our students who says, hey, I'm in the theater program at Fairfield, will you respond? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. In like a sickeningly work obsessed, timely fashion. Or the opposite of that. But in the general sense, can I just a bit of advice? In that situation, no matter who you're calling, who's in a position to do something for you, just remember, two things. One, don't ask a favor of someone unless you know the answer is going to be yes. You won't always get that right. Sometimes you're gonna be like, but you don't, and usually you only get one ask. So save it. And don't scatterbomb, you know? Don't use the scud missile approach. Like work on your own stuff. Work on your stuff. And then know that when I call this person, I'm gonna be exactly, this is exactly the person I should be calling. And I am aware of the fact that I'm only gonna get one try at this. I've got people in my head that I know when the right situation comes around, whether it's the right role that I write for them or the right, I know that I can call them, but I've been saving them for years in my head, waiting for just that right moment because there actually is nothing worse than blowing that chance. And I'm not saying like, oh, any one of us up here is like such a great call to make. You know, like we're gonna be the key that unlocks the golden doors. But I do think it's worth that, which is why I said at the beginning, like follow careers. I mean, if you think someone may be a contact, like follow their career, get involved with them. Like I said, so much of it is public now. So follow them on their Instagram or follow their Twitter. It's not something you have to ask for. It's something you can just do because it's public. See their work, learn about their work, you know? And then be like, oh, you know, I could do this for that person. So there's like, and not like I look for everyone who calls me that I expect them to do me a favor. It's not the mafia, but there is a sense of like, the person on the other end of the call or the other end of the email is gonna be like, oh, this person's got their stuff together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. So, you know, I know exactly why they're calling me. Here's a like full circle Fairfield example of that. The very first person in the theater department of Fairfield University that I became friends with is a man named John Power. It's so appropriate that we should end this with John Power. Yes, John Power is quite a powerhouse, no, unintended. He's the vice president of casting for television for Warner Brothers, Los Angeles. He has a corner office literally on the lot. He has like a golf cart with his name on it. Yeah. John is one of my best friends in the world. He's been at both my weddings. He's, no, I mean, we've been on vacation together. We've lived together for five years. He's one of my best friends in the world. I have never asked John for a job. You know why? Because John is above my level. I'm not there yet, and I've been working for 20 years, and I'm not there yet. I might not get there until I'm in my 50s or my, whatever, but I have been watching. I know everything that goes through John's, you know, pilot season comes along, and I look and I see. And when that thing comes along, and I know I can nail it. Because, sure, there are 10 roles every season for somebody who looks like me, and, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, type-wise. But when that project comes along, that, oh, I know that writer, and I know that director, and God, I'm so passionate, and I know that's my part. I will make that one phone call to my best friend. You know, I mean, it's not just a theoretical, like, oh, you shouldn't ask people for things. You shouldn't ask people for things until you know you can deliver exactly what they need, and it's a win-win. Because when it's just a win for you, nobody's interested. You know, it's gotta be a win-win. And that's kind of like life too, you know. But it's true, and you hold onto that stuff, and you wait for the right moment, and... We can't thank you enough for being here.