 All right welcome back it's still plus politics. The Kaduna state government says in a fewer than 1,192 persons were killed while 3,348 people were kidnapped by bandits in the state in 2021. The governor, Nassau Erufe, after receiving the report asked the federal government to create another theater command similar to the one in the North East to tackle the insecurity in the Northwest and Niger state. The governor also maintained that bandits or terrorists do not deserve mercy and therefore must be killed. He said the military and the police are needed to be provided with more than equipment by the federal government. Joining us this time around is a public affairs analyst Paul Cato and security expert Dixie Osage. Many thanks and gentlemen for joining us on this particular this Costa Stama round. All right let me start with you Dixie. Well the governor came out loud and yesterday when he made his position non-concelling what is happening in his state he is lamenting that no legitimate government can survive by tolerating terrorists or negotiating with those who you know constitute menace to law abiding citizens. He is actually against what he called repentant bandits. Dixie you are a security analyst, you have been in the military, you understand the terrain, let's talk about repentant bandits. Do you really think it will help the country when it comes to sorting out itself from this issue that has plagued us over time? Thank you very much. It's quite regrettable what is happening in our dear country Nigeria and I think it's a failure on leadership, it's also a failure on political strategy, security, economic strategy and operational strategy. The governor of Kaduna states they just released the report on the death of Nigerians in Kaduna state and the report is not friendly, it's not good enough for us to accommodate because having 1192 Nigerians being killed and about 3348 being killed in our own country, in our own states adjusting with all honesty it is highly highly unacceptable. Well for me I think we need to start looking at developing a holistic strategy because from terrorism studies if over 999 persons killed in action or died in the hands of criminal or terrorist elements it is a worse situation. So for me I think the Kaduna state government should declare a full blown war against these terrorists. Let me shock you Justin, Kaduna state harbors the highest institution of the Nigerian state, we have the Nigerian defense academy in Kaduna state, we have the Nigerian army training institution that is the depot of the Nigerian army training institution in Zarya Kaduna state. So we cannot have a state that harbors a lot of training institutions and we are unable to curtail with the spread of insecurity there in Kaduna state. I sympathize with those who died in the hands of this unnecessary human being and their families. It's really a worse situation Justin trust me but for me in the next question I think we'll be looking at the mitigation factors or what the country needs to do to mitigate these many. All right before we talk about mitigation I'll just ask that you hold that photo. Let's bring in a resident in Kaduna state who is also a public analyst. That's Paul Kato. Paul thank you for joining us this time around. Good evening to you. All right I'll still try and reconnect with Paul. I can barely make out what he said. I'll go back to you now Dixie Osage. The governor specifically talked about Dixie, are you still on the line? Yes I'm here Justin. All right fine. The governor talked about curation of theater, theater commander will enable a holistic approach. I'm just quoting him, you know, verbatim. He said the curation of such a theater commander will enable a holistic approach to counter insertions across the six affected state and enhanced coordination of the resources of the armed forces, the police, the SSS. He went to understand our respective state vigilance services, hunters and other local volunteers to fight the insurgents are needed. Looking at all that he has said, what do you really make about this curation of a theater of commander security-wise? Do you really think it will go far in stemming this issue in the bud? That's at all Justin, it should not mitigate that the series of insecurity in the Kaduna state and other states are closed. Kaduna state is the second least state in Nigeria, Justin. And I must tell you for free, the governor's approach is not going to mitigate security because when we talk about counter-insurgency. We are looking at the issue of insecurity, specifically the report that was just released by the Kaduna state governor indicating the alarming number of people that either was killed or were killed in 2021. We have Paul Kato this time around. He is a public affairs analyst. Thanks for joining us Paul. Thank you very much for having me on your program and good evening. All right. Let me just start by asking first, what's the mood in Kaduna state right now as we speak? Well, generally the mood in Kaduna state right now, as we speak, people are not happy with the current situation on the ground. Every day we wake up with the fear of not coming back home. Either you are kidnapped on the road, on the farm or even while in your own house. So I must say with all sincerity, Kaduna is not a safe state at all. I tell those who care to listen to me that Meduguri, which is the capital of Borneo, is safer than the whole Kaduna put together. Well, that's really alarming. The governor released the report yesterday and he said 1,192 persons were killed by bandits. He also went on to say that 3,348 were kidnapped, 891 injured in 2021. That's according to the report. It could actually be more. Over time he's talked about a holistic approach. How would you really rate security operators in Kaduna state? Right now the governor is calling for better approach. He wants a coordinated attempt with the local vigilantes and hunters. So far, how have they done in the state? Well, the report has indicted them, has indicted the government itself because if you have done so well, wouldn't be having these numbers of people, almost over 1,000 people killed and almost over 3,000 people kidnapped. The fact here is, I think the approach the government is taking, it's not from my point of view, it's often listed because sincerely speaking, Kaduna already, it's a world theater, just as your guest said, Dickson himself. Kaduna is the home of almost all the new institutions you can think of in Nigeria. And it's something that's fundamentally wrong, that you have the Defense Academy, you have the Air Force, you have the School of Artillery, both in Kuchedas for the Navy and the Army, then you have the First Deep and the Third Deep and Kaduna is still being harassed every day by rag-tag bandits. Something is fundamentally wrong somewhere. I do not know really what is happening, but I think something is wrong and the government is not actually telling the citizens of Kaduna what's actually wrong because with all the spending in terms of security fundings and all that intelligence-gathering, I think we're supposed to have passed this stage already, where you have people being killed and saved their animals. This is not just, I'm tired of people saying, I'm tired of the statistics, you know, 1,192 and more because this is their own statistics because we have other statistics also around to prove to you that. Alright Paul. Alright Paul, so would you really say that the state government is actually overwhelmed when it comes to securing the lives and property of people residing in the state? Do you think right now there is an urgent need for maybe national intervention? I would not say the state is overwhelmed. I would say the state is not doing the need for, you know, with all that you have on ground in terms of military institutions, what is actually stopping the state from implementing, you know, basic security measures to cover where we're facing right now in Kaduna? I'll tell you for something, I'll tell you, I'll say this. Kaduna has a very high number of retired military and police men. What stops the government from calling up retired military men, you know, cut across the three, cut across the 23 local government in Kaduna state and 255 words in Kaduna state, you know, these are retired people who have served the nation before and I don't think if the government calls them up to service again, I don't think they will say no. What is there for government to actually cover this issue? It has to, it has to look at it from a bottom-top approach or the top-bottom approach, because as they say, politics is local, so also violence is local. So you have to carry along people from the rural communities that have been attacked every day. The state government, some two years back, two years ago, they said they spent money on buying drones. We've not seen the effect of the drones really. If I told you about drones, whatever attacks are about to happen or whatever people are about to be killed, it's expected that these drones will be roving around Kaduna city and its environment. So I just feel and I believe that the government approach towards the Kaduna state government approach towards covering this issue or stopping this violence is not just walking. They need to rethink the approach, get retired military men, policemen, GSS men from Kaduna state spread across the country. Who can call me and give me their advice on what can be done with those who are sitting inside? I'll tell you, give them six months to get the results. Less than six months to get the results. All right, thank you, Paula. Let's talk to Dixon once again. Dixon, are you still there? I am alive here. Of course you are. I just want to get your quick and candid opinion concerning the governor's position on bandits or terrorists as it were. He wants them to be killed. Is that the way forward? Well, it's not the way forward, but that is necessary because I just listened to the last speaker. He made a fantastic point. But let me just abuse his mind. Not any retired soldier or retired police or ex-service personnel will be happy to go back to serve his nation or to defend his nation. Why they were in service? What did the government do for them? Do for them? I'm not living in service. I can tell you that they are still being held, they are basic allowance, that they are department allowance. You could say the retired armed forces of Nigeria some few weeks ago did protest against the government that gave us our dues. Why are you not giving us our dues? Are you telling me someone that has not been paid his dues would be happy to be called back? Personally, myself, I would not be happy to be called back. I better leave the country than to be called back. Because a country that is where that catapher has returned veterans, that take good care of his veterans, definitely those veterans will be so happy and delighted to be called back. So what are you doing to the veterans? What is the benefit for the veterans? You think you can just call them back in time of danger? No way. Now, going back to your question, Justin, the approach from the Cabinet State Government is what we classified as oppressional strategy. There are various strategies you can adopt in contending with the security. The last speaker was talking about people being killed in the rural areas. Now, we have the political strategy. We need to start looking at the political strategy. Counter insurgency, Justin, is not a military might. Military might will never eliminate terrorism. Counter insurgency is a two-way point. Enemy centric and population centric. Enemy centric in the sense that it has to do with the military, the police, and the security agents. Population centric has to do with the civilian populace. That is where the political strategy comes to play. That is where the administrative strategy comes to play. That is where the economic strategy comes to play. We have a lot of people that are not well taken care of by the government. If an offer comes from the terrorists or from the bandits, a lot of Nigerians will fly at the offer. And that is why we need to start looking at resolving all the grievances between political parties. Political strategy is very, very important at this stage. We don't think that they give the military order, let them go and kill. No. Healing of terrorists will never eliminate terrorism. You don't measure success by killing of terrorists. You measure success by the state of peace. As you arrive at the state of peace, for you to arrive at the state of peace, you need to bring in all the components together. Counter insurgency component. All right. Thank you so much, Adix, and we are actually out of time. We must say a very big thank you to, you know, for all of your contribution. And of course, Paul Katos, thank you so much, gentlemen, you know, for all that you have said today. We just pray that these killings and these kidnappings in Kaduna state and indeed other parts of the country, you know, would be actually brought to zero point because we can continue like that as a country. Thank you once again, gentlemen. All right. That's the size of the show for today. I am Justin, Accadonia Plus Politics returns tomorrow. Bye for now.