 Hi, so I'm just going to run down the usual spiel about the Here Art Center and the HARP program. My name is Seyla Mack. I am interviewing a bunch of HARP artists from the Here Art Center. What HARP is is just a program where people apply for it and they get to, artists get to work on their ensembles or individual artists get to work on their projects for a number of years because Kristen Marding, the artistic director in here, they knew that artists, especially artists that are making their own work, need time to develop and this regional theater pressure of three weeks and go is not necessarily what is the best way for some artists to work. So they created this many years ago and artists get space and they get fellowship with other artists. There's breakout sessions where people teach each other things that they know. Other artists teach each other like how to write grants and how to create a budget and all that kind of stuff and there's a wide range of people who know a lot of different stuff. So it's pretty useful and the here will produce the work or co-producer whatever the artist kind of needs and wants. Sometimes the artist will just produce it all on their own and it's always shifting. It's usually hybrid work, whatever that means to the artist. And I'm here with Minor Theater Company. Hello, hello, hello. Will you guys all introduce yourselves? Since I don't know all of you. Let's start with Julia. Hi, yeah, my name is Julia Jarco. I use she, her pronouns and I'm the writer of the plays that this company Minor Theater puts on and I usually also direct them. Although for this project, Marie, it's time. I'm not directing it in part because I'm performing in it, which I don't usually do alongside. How do you feel about that? Feels great. Good. I mean, you've been a performer many times, right? I think of it as something I did in my wild youth that I, you know, that I wisely put behind me. Yeah. But yeah, so this piece that I guess we'll talk about is kind of about performing and about relationships between kind of writing things and acting them out. And so it felt like important to be on stage and not just delegate that task to the person I'm going to pass the mic to now, who is Jennifer Seastone. Hey, I'm Jennifer Seastone. And I mostly act in minor shows, but I have also done some video design for the last show. But in this one, I will be acting with Julia and Keegan. And I go by she, her pronouns. And I think that's that covers it. Maybe I'll pass it to Ian since they're next on the acting lineup. Wow. Okay. The acting lineup's going strong and hot. I'm Keegan Kohan. I use they, them pronouns. I am not a member of minor theater, but I worked with minor theater before and I'm performing in Marie It's Time as the role of the major. And I feel very grateful to be here and I care for these people very much. I'll pass to Ben Williams. Hey, I'm Ben. I'm a he, him and I'm an actor sometimes and a sound designer sometimes for these guys. Alistair. Right. And though you might not be explicitly performing on stage in this one, it is a sound based thing. And you are the sound dramaturgy look to. I'm Aosta, she, her. I am directing this piece. Previous roles have been costume designing for this company. And yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, that was a pretty good string together narrative because I feel like I don't have to talk too much about why I stepped into that role. Is that a good yeah. Yeah, I think so. And so why don't we talk about, and you know, I'll try to like pass it off to somebody and do that hosting duties and stuff so that we don't have that horrible zoom talk over each other. But, but Aosta, why don't you talk about this piece and Wojciech and, you know, how it relates and all of that. Get us started. The easy part. So Marie, it's time is some, let's say it's like our mix tape love song to Marie and her choices and her decisions to go make out with the major. And so in that sense, performance and role play and fantasy are like enacted in a kind of rock show where we also have things like dialogue and monologue. And even staging. And thematically, what are you, what, what are you addressing with this? Jenny. Did we say that it is a response to or or some sort of it calls on Wojciech? Was that set out loud? I had mentioned it, but you didn't say that. So yeah. So talk to me more about that because there's a couple of pieces in in the hard program that are working off of there's the the Carmen variations, you know, that are working off of a former piece and kind of transforming it or or as a springboard. And I'm curious a little bit about Kristen Martin's curatorial decision in that, but also what that means working in fellowship with other artists who are doing that. And I have you've been in conversation with them and also what's your what's the drive, I guess, is really what I'm asking. Well, I guess I might soon pass it to Julia for that in the writing. But you know, in myself, I'm attracted to it because it is a story that is so so fully like a male based narrative that kind of discards the the woman as like a side story. And and doesn't really consider her in the in the narration of his journey, although she's the one that is, you know, killed in the end. And and so it's interesting to me because of of the turning the tables on it and also the idea of two of her. And or not really, I guess that's a little bit nebulous in the story whether or not there is two of her but the idea of performance and and what it means to be one person who is at the center of their own narrative or not. Maybe I'll just turn it to Julia to have more of a complete answer to that. Oh, no, I mean, I know nothing more complete. But I but I do. Yeah, I mean, so I'm I love this play Boy Check by Buchner. I think yeah 1830s. You know, it's it's this unfinished play, right? He was in his 20s and he wrote this play. And he kind of left it in piles and then he died. ASAP. So people, you know, after since discovering this text have, you know, people love to direct this play, because there's so much room for choice, like every edition that gets published of the play puts the scenes in a different order and kind of tries to repair the gaps differently. So it's this text that is already kind of like a problem and a mystery just in itself. But also, yes, this text that I think people love because the hero slash anti hero boy check who is this guy who, you know, he's he's poor, he's oppressed, he's mentally ill. Everyone's trying to harm him. Basically, he hears that his common law wife, who's the mother of his child is sleeping with the the handsome drum major in the regiment that's just rolled into town. And so he his madness gets even more intense and he murders her. And that's the narrative, like it's a really skeletal narrative. And I guess, you know, for me, this play sort of starting wanting to work on this play kind of came out of I was teaching I teach this play a lot. When I teach playwriting, I think that, you know, the text is wild and beautiful and and weird. You know, but but the way that I come back to it and the way that I feel sort of like thrilled by it, I started to be curious about that. I mean, a lot of our plays of minor theaters plays already are kind of about intersections between violence and sex and kind of darker and twistier parts of desire and especially I think women's desire. But the way that this figure of Marie, who as Jenny said, you know, is never at the center of the story, but kind of like bursts onto the page as this like intensely sexualized and sexualizing figure. And then, you know, gets her blood everywhere. You know, I was like, why is that so appealing? You know, not only to me, but to apparently so many people that this is a huge canonical classic. And sort of like how how would I find my way inside this play if I gave myself permission to go into it not via the title character, but via Marie. And so that I think is sort of like, for me, how the project starts. Yeah. And are you where are you in the process right now? So I can have that you're muted. So just to say it explicitly also, Jenny and Julia are both Marie in this staging where we're playing with like also the slipperiness of staging and self in that way. Because they push each other around to go get what they want. And so are you are you is she existing in a post death place or is she existing in the world of or do you not know you don't have to know? Well, I think what's important to where we are in the process in a way like in a in a literal way, the text is there's a there's a text we've been working off of we rehearsed. We're going to share some music that we've learned and performed together. Wonderful. Um, but in terms of like the meaning of this thing, we're like figuring out what it means for Jenny and Julia to both be Marie for these two friends of mine and artists to be Marie, which is very exciting. But I think like as as individuals, I mean as as the actual artists themselves or or as two parts of a character or some hybrid of that, I think both. But Julia. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, to the question of like, is she dead? I think I think the answer is like, yes, yes, and, um, no, no, that, you know, that that that that the piece that we're trying to make is is kind of about the process of stepping into a narrative that you already know. So I think that there are moments in the play when we kind of we occupy that narrative and, you know, yeah, we occupy that narrative. And in those moments, maybe, you know, Marie is alive again. But that really the sort of like the the seam or the thing that keeps coming back around is this question of like, what is it just to make to take that step, that step into a kind of fantasy of of one's own murder, basically, stepping in and stepping out. Yeah, well, and so and I mean, I was reading your mission statement on your website, which is so wonderful. And and it's so much about you said you have this beautiful line about practicing our way to you guys can tell me better than I can remember it, but the impossible, essentially. And and how is that how is that working? It's impossible to step inside this fictional character that is that is been murdered and is part of a linear job women being murdered in in theater productions. And it's impossible to correct that wrong. Is that and yet here we are, we're going to explore it and wonder and and yeah, just I guess just really just talk about that. I'm curious to hear. I was going to ask that. I said I was going to host, but I'm doing it. Just jump in. I mean, if I may, or maybe this is a little awkward, like I think this like, Katie and I'm going to queue you up in a second a little bit to talk because your character appears in the original boy check. And I think our journey in this process this far has, we've learned, like, we also have more stage time in our version with the drum major than we have in the original boy check. And I'm wondering if you could maybe describe a little bit about your sense of the character. Yeah. For me, I just jumping in and cold off it. I really, I mean, what I'm drawn to and interested in performing is this like, canonical object of desire. And like, sort of, like, I really, it's like, to be like, no, but to be to feel like wanted. And then I mean, in Marie, it's time and the text that we're working on and what we're working on together. I think like, myself, Keidian as a performer sometimes has a lot of judgment of like, is this person, like, deserving of affection and like, are all any of the characters like deserving of each other's affection or pleasure or consent as they're in conflict with on another. But yeah, to I think, for me, it's really exciting to not see Frank like to see not see Frank in our version, in exactly the same way. But for me to get you embody a character that was an outlet for Marie's pleasure in the original one. And to be in a contemporary version of that, just in my own performer body is like, totally thrilling and set against the backdrop of, like, being a musician and being in concert and performing for these people. And that's a thrill and sort of not known to me in my everyday life. So stepping into that in the world of this play is awesome and a different type of interaction. So yeah. And it makes the audience, are you gender queer? Is that how you define yourself? Yeah. Yeah, I define as trans, gender nonconforming. Yeah. So to like have the audience, I mean, it's always tricky because the actor, you know, you actors want to be able to play actors, like that's what they want. I mean, they want to be able to play characters and embody them. And at the same time, you guys in your theater company is so much about, yeah, but the actors are playing lots of different roles. So it's about performance as well. And so what I love about watching trans people on stage is that it's the duality of it is so intense, you know, especially with the history of that. So I don't know, is that something you're working with or are you just going to just let it be? Yeah. It's like, it's there for me. I mean, like, I remember, I mean, and I trust, I mean, I also performing with Jenny and Julia is amazing, but also there's always these moments for me where I'm like, like, I wear, I'm like, oh, like, where you just have a sense of self where you're like, they're so beautiful. And like, I have this affection and we're like looking at each other, not to be like, but seriously where there's like, you know, a lot of it, like it is based in sex and violence and intimacy in this way. And then for me, I'm like, what am I who would like me who would want me? I don't really want people to look at me when I'm singing, but I like want affection and love just like everybody else on stage. So like that. And so then like, they feel hot and wanted. And so like, for me, that experience is I'm, I'll do anything for them. I'm like, sure. It's like being a show. I'm like, just, just put me up in the gate. Because I feel like a particular performance feeling, but I'm sure Jenny is also chasing performance feelings throughout this. How's Jenny? Well, I think it's super interesting what you were saying, Kitty. And I've never thought about like this idea of not wanting to be seen at all and yet totally giving your whole self to be seen. It's something that I think about a lot in performance, like I don't want anybody to look at me ever. And then like, but then there's this like thing that you do where you're just, you surrender to some sort of, I don't know, like power where you then are giving something that isn't real, like that isn't authentic, but is the most authentic thing that you could ever give. And then there's also this idea of, you know, I really hate this word meta, because it's so overused, but like this idea of Julia. I was like, everything's meta. I hear you, I hear you. Yeah, being yourself on stage and a character and like specifically in this show, you know, being a part of Julia, and then Julia being on the inside of it, but also on the outside of it because she's written it. And having been like in a lot of Julia's work before, and then having her on stage this like weird, like wanting so hard to connect, but also being so confused about how to do it because it's so foreign. So it becomes more like real life on stage the way like we interact in real life versus this like character that is this, we are the same, but it's really like a lot of circles for me. And then, yeah, and then having Katie in there also is just like a beautiful gift. So like the whole, and having Julia, like all of it is just such and also confusing on how to like wrap your head around it and kind of release into it and not be too much up here is really hard in this piece for me. And Ben, feel free to jump in because I know you've acted in pieces as well, but is that something that is specific to this piece, working on this piece? Or is that always when the playwright is on stage with you? Maybe it's always when a playwright is on stage with you, which I've, you know, done in other things before, because, but then there's like this deep comfort also, which is like, like especially when I'm with Ben on stage, it's like this, like you don't worry about you're just like in somebody's hands and you're like, you can have me in your hands and I will have you on my hands. So it's just like trying to figure out what that means when you're in your head a little bit. Because the acting fantasy is that we're chasing the sensation of trying to be in the place where we're not in our head, right? Where we're just like playing tennis and that's the fantasy. But it's interesting to upend that fantasy and say, no, actually, the goal is not to be in your head. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Like what is performance anyway? Like we're all performing here. You know, we've developed performance and all of that. But then you put it on stage and you're questioning like the performance of all of the history of Wojciak also and like the history of your relationships with the people on stage. And I don't know. I don't know if you have any thoughts, Ben, in the past of other things that that relates to just to make you talk. I mean, a lot of this is making me think of, you know, if the way that we've worked on the show so far has pushed everything into the foreground in this way, like the performances. You guys who are actually on the stage, it's so much about you really delivering to a face forward to an audience, you know, and it makes me wonder is there room for a kind of interiority that we haven't found yet? And what would that look like, you know? I keep thinking of like Miles Davis, like with his back to the audience, like, you know, moving further away from the crowd and thinking of this as a rock show and thinking of this as everything is going forward into the mic to the audience all the time, like, I think there are moments of this of this play that we that want to resist that in some way. And I'm curious to know if that works. What would that look like if we went the complete opposite direction? Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, Alstay, you should talk about that also. But I just, you know, I mean, just to go back to later your question about sort of like, what is the impossible in this piece? Or like, what is the impossibility that we're pursuing? I mean, I guess I think that that part of that part of it is about like the impossibility of not like the impossibility of of escaping interiority, right? The impossibility of getting out of your head. I mean, I think part of what's for me so kind of compelling about Marie in Vojcik is that she, I mean, she, you know, she talks to herself like every character in that play. But she's like, you know, she's like, all body, you know, she's, she's like completely realized in her body. She knows herself through her body and through her kind of bodily desires. And that body is, you know, on stage and kind of available, available to the major, to have sex with available to Vojcik to kill and like available to the audience to kind of attach to in different ways. And in a way, I feel like that fantasy is precisely like the kind of like what you're saying, Taylor, though, like, I'm just going to play tennis, you know, like, I'm going to get out of my head. I'm going to, you know, get away from the computer where I write. I mean, this is obviously just me outing myself but just like, you know, get on the stage and just be a body for once. How great, what must be like, you know, but obviously that's never, like, never, never, never, never possible. And in that move, you just end up kind of creating more circles and more spaces for yourself to hide and you like drag everyone around you into that orbit of kind of neurotic self-concealment. And I feel like that spiral is, is one of the things that the, that the play is about actually the impossibility of being a kind of, of becoming an object in that way. Yeah. It makes me wonder about stops and starts and, and, and flow. It makes, it makes me wonder about rhythm, you know, you know, you keep mentioning rock, rock show and, and what it means to have a button and how I guess like, it's also like the idea of not knowing is part of your kind of mission. Sorry to bring that up. I know it's obnoxious because people just write these things and they put them up and then interview us. No, we mean every word. You mean every word. But the idea of not knowing and then what, what is a stop, is a stop knowing, is the period knowing, is a, is a black out knowing, is a, is a button at the end of a song knowing and, and, and is, is eight bars of music in some way kind of knowing. And so I, I'm curious about that, that, that desire to turn your back on the audience and that would front and I mean there's a long history of rock and roll is doing that. And, but I'm curious about that within the question of how do we not know? Yeah. Sorry, that was a lot to throw at you. No, I mean that was so fabulous. And I don't know if this is in rhythm with that, but like I have to append from 10 minutes ago, Katie and I loved and enjoyed so much you speaking about this role, because we as an ensemble live in fear that you're going to go to the major downtown theater presses and be like, I assistant directed for them. And then they objectified me and put me on stage. They're sexual plaything. I mean, but I mean, I think that's just like an important part of the, the intimacy and the experiment of this ensemble in particular and might not speak to rhythm at all. But it does because it's built into all the scenes. I feel like the stops and starts for me come from when, when Julia as Mag as the Marie character is, is like directing in situ, like interactions between the major and Marie, all those stops and starts do it again. Those those breaks in action at when, when you're aware that we're either, you know, we're performing for one another. I feel like really built into the rhythm more so than I can like immediately grab on to musically, but I know it's there. Well, also what's odd is I was going to say, like Ben, you've modeled in previous minor theater productions, some of this meta-hygienics in shows where you did the sound and you were acting. That's true. Yes. But that's more like, I feel like that's more like shtick. I don't know. I feel like that's almost kind of like a motive operation at this point. I feel like as opposed to a technique. Yeah. As opposed to like, you know, a downtown theater technique where, you know, oh, the sound designers on the stage and they press the button and then they act a thing. And that's part of like a history of performance. No, there's a long history. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it brings up like interesting, interesting questions of thinking specifically about this piece and where does this piece want to go? You know, we're in this kind of like a little golden, glowy area where we still have, where the show's not set. It's not, it's not, it's not made yet. You know, we've tried out a couple of different ideas of it so far, but you know, we haven't, there's still so much about what the show is that's, and how it functions that's, that we don't know yet. And I feel like, you know, with the last show, it was a little bit built in from the beginning that I would be doing that, you know, and so, I mean, it just came about like organically, like right, it was kind of, I don't want to say it was written into the script, but it, there was just something about it that worked from the beginning, you know, and then it became fun. I mean, it was always fun, but and this, I don't know. I mean, part of this maybe is still that I'm still trying to find my way into this piece and to figure out what it is that I can do to help facilitate this piece. And right now, you know, most of the way that's worked is that, I mean, I know all you guys so well, and I just have total trust in, in you guys. And I feel like I'm, you know, following this process in a way. And, and, and kind of on the outside of it, you know, so I don't know what the techniques are, you know, I don't know what the, with the history of, of perform, how the history of performance in, in downtown is going to shape this piece, but it still feels like it's so malleable at this point. We just need to be in the room together again, maybe soon, you know. Yeah, well, yeah, maybe that seems very appropriate that, you know, a piece that is doing what this piece is doing that the male sound designer follows. Seems appropriate to me. Good. I definitely don't need to be in front of it. Yeah. But, but, but I mean, well, I mean, one, one sort of downtown theater trope that has come up in our conversations is the play with songs model, which, which has been hotly contested in this room, where there was a moment when I was like, well, whatever it is, it's not another play with songs. And then, you know, had to like, furiously backpedal afterwards, because like, of course, it is a play with songs. I mean, that's exactly what it is. But the question of sort of like how music lives in this play, which is sort of the question of it being a rock show. And also something else is something that, you know, we've been working with our music director and composer, Jeff, Aaron Bryant, to figure out in different iterations, like different showings that we've done. You know, because, because like typically, right in, in this world of theater, I think, at least in the plays that I think of my plays as sort of coming out of or growing alongside of, you know, the song functions partly as a kind of acknowledgement of theatricality, like, you know, we're doing a scene, oh, now we're doing a song. We're all in on the joke together. And it's great, you know, but I think, in a way, this piece is so much is so, so much like located on that frame already, that that, that can't be the logic of what the songs are doing. I wonder if maybe this is this a good segue, perhaps? Yeah, yeah, let's, well, let's watch some, let's watch some tape. In you. So the devil wants you. So I do. Is that what that lyric was? Thanks, Taylor Mac. So, so I mean, amazing. That's wonderful. You have a wonderful voice. Are you a musician or are you, are you just doing it because you were casting this and they told you you have to sing? Yeah, I mean, Julia writes these amazing lyrics and songs and, and yeah, Jeff Aaron Bryant has been working as our music director and composer. And yeah, that really that I've just I've never I mean, everyone I think has the fantasy of like fronting a rock band or singing and being like that. But honestly, it's wild. I can't I don't know the experience of singing and performing in this piece is I think back to your earlier question. That's where I struggled the most just like within, you know, life and transition. I watched that video it's probably a year ago now that video is filmed. I'm like, I don't even like we would change the key. Like I don't even you know, it would just sound different. It just every month and every time it will change. Yeah, it's so fun to do but really, really, really vulnerable. And I think the acting is like really not vulnerable for me, not like to be like that. But it's really not it's like so fun and devilish. And like, you know, stepping into being intimate but the the singing and this aspect for me is definitely is like my own personal performer a little pocket challenge. Whereas I think Jenny Julia are working, you know, we all have our own little little performer pocket we're either like protecting or throwing up in. So yeah. But that's a beautiful place when when you get to watch people be vulnerable and and do it anyways, you know, I mean that's that's that's somebody somebody was I saw some award show or something for somebody with lipstick again some rock and roll and was like, like why didn't she sing live? I mean, I can't sing I sing live. It was so amazing and you can sing but but I just love the I love that that that the beauty of that the bravery of that and finding a way to put that on a stage is just like that's it that's all it is, you know, virtuosity and and that at the same time. So so talk to me about your your company and how you make how you make a company and and it's rare for there to be a company where it's the playwrights, you know, I can think of young Jean Lee's company, you know, what she calls it that but it's really young Jean Lee, right. And so what does it mean to have an ensemble and the playwright is it's one playwright and I'm assuming one costume director and and so how is that navigated and how does it work it sounds divine to me. Alsta. Okay, I played headphones back in definitely not technical. I think this is an organic. Keidian is a recent addition to this four group who have were making plays and it was structured in a kind of Julius writing directing, we were putting up shows and there was a desire to have more of a through line than just sort of putting up shows and it's really exciting that this has created an arc across our productions where, you know, Jenny was acting primarily and then shifted into her role. And I think the the sort of the the trust and shared love of doing the plays together. Julius writing is a big spine in it. And it's the it's the shared thrill of just making making plays together. So it's a real delight. I mean, yeah, like which essentially began with a show called Grimly Handsome, which is it's really wild to me that actually that was a three person play where Jenny played a kind of cipher of Julia. And it was interested in masculinity. And a Grimly Handsome man personified by Ben Williams, a sort of sexy sound designer. So it's really all quite full circle here. Right. Because now it's Maria. Is Maria the character's name? Maria is in some ways the cipher. Yeah. Is that is that fair to say? Is that furthering the misogyny to say that? I don't know. It's a question. I don't have the answer. But that was but that was a piece that was about, I mean, about our shared love of watching Pete Simpson and Ben Williams and Jenny Seastone do some really great texts on stage. And I think the sort of we've just been really blessed to have a lot of other collaborators who've thrown a ton of energy and joy into some really yeah, just some really fun work. And there's a kind of shared sense of humor of this group. And so is that the is that the is the the challenge to mix up who does what? It seems like maybe that's happening a little bit. Is that is that fair to say? Yeah, I think that yeah, that that has been a feature. Yeah, going through and I think something that excites us that each of us plays multiple roles. Sometimes within a show, but certainly the actors. Yeah, yeah, creation of what the theater company is like the structure of who's in charge of what is like pretty like dispersed and and I think not like we're trying really hard not to make it a power structure of who does what and who can do other things, which I think is really a difficult way to navigate through in the beginning, but is a really interesting exercise in coming together and doing it together, but also taking responsibility or giving responsibility that I think we're still navigating through in a really exciting and scary way. It's keep us posted. Because it feels like there aren't that many models for it. And it's and it feels to me when I read about it, I just thought, oh, yeah, that's how dreamy is that because the ego of you know, Moliere obviously had a company, but it was Moliere's company, you know, and so that and like the Worcester group obviously is a group of theater people, but you know, nothing really happens without their artistic director, you know what I mean. So it's like what what is the there's lots of devised companies, but what is that what's the ensemble with a playwright on one playwright, even if you mix it up, I just find that I find it exciting. So I hope you keep talking to people like how around about it in the process. That's all. Thanks. And then we'll go soon, but I just wanted to ask you also about aesthetics, like what what what are you working downtown, you know, so much of the aesthetic sometimes feels like it's dictated by economics. And I wonder about that in terms of content and aesthetics and and and how you you work with them both with the design of sound, but also just how you're how you're blending that into the work, I guess. You mean like cheapness? Well, like a chair on a stage is is either an economic decision or it's it's about content and it's a choice and it's you know, and so I just wonder where that where that is with you like do you have the dream of of having an opera budget for this or do you have and and that's what you would like or do you have the dream of no, a minimalist aesthetic allows you to dig deeper into the content that you want to express. That's what I'm wondering. I mean definitely give us the opera budget. You know, but but I think that I mean one way to answer that is to say that negative space is super has always been super important in all of our shows. And you know, the tension between the scene and the unseen, I mean, we did a show called The Terrifying a few years back, which was a horror play and was a chance for Ben to build like a super rich intense soundscape, you know, with speakers under the seats and just really immersive and telling an enormous amount of story through sound. And part of why that a project like that makes sense, at least to me for us is that I think we're always kind of playing, I mean, to go back to the thing about the impossible, like we're always kind of playing on the edges of the invisible and the thing that kind of can't can't quite be realized. I mean, I do think Marie Marie most explicitly of all our plays kind of takes place in a kind of like on the threshold between the real and the imaginary, but I but I think in a way that's true of all of the plays and and the you know that they're all kind of plays about about fantasy, like plays about sort of like building dream building desire and so in a certain way, I think a lot of the choices even are kind of more built up designs are not about like creating a stable a kind of imaginatively stable landscape. It's more like we want a space for a space to play with shadows and kind of yes. Beautiful. That's a beautiful way to say it. Like in the it's in the content and it's in like the all of the rest of it to like how pared down can it be without and true like put on and pull down at the same time. Like it's not all about suspension of disbelief or anything like that or any there is like a striving for the communication. Do you feel like that's just like we don't want to trick anybody? Is that yeah. Yeah. Oh, I mean I'm down to trick people. I think. Well, but I mean I think that what you were saying before was something like I don't believe in scenery like you don't believe in like right like like we believe I think in role playing and make believe right and we believe we are not these people on stage which is getting pushed I think to a certain extreme with this project that is new that is new I think but I think like I mean. But it's still theater. It's it's I mean in grimly handsome we made red panda costumes that Jenny and Ben wore which was really I'm always looking to get back to the creature aspect of this. But I think like like for example in terms of where we are with this piece it's a fairly live question that what you saw was footage of the dot and the dot felt very immediate as a space and the stripped quality of that performance felt really exciting. So now Ben often asks the group when are we going to hire like a set or like other designers um which we we will um but like and we will be articulating these desires but like with the journey of this piece it's not really clear necessarily. Yeah I just think it's it's alive in a way like it's so much of the downtown theater that I see is um well it's what it's what we're doing you know it's like we got a chair because this is what we is what we it's what we can do for now you know what I mean but to make a choice of the space and as you say the shadows um is uh yeah to love the dot for being uh empty is um an intimate at the same time is uh is the special thing. Basil would love to hear you say that because his name doctor is his mom um but you know uh I just wanted to ask before we go um if there's anything that you guys want to ask of the community do you need to help make your piece or do you want the community to consider something in as you're considering this work or what it just yeah if there's something you want to ask of please do even if it's just money. I mean come and see it when we do it. That's good. I mean I another thing is just um you know as to mentions you know that that the the company will have to grow for this show that will be you know looking for new collaborators and I think you know something that's that's of interest to us is like um how can we make this uh a welcoming place to be um this company how can we make make it um a site that people want to join up with you know we've talked a lot about how much love and trust we already have for each other which is great um obviously but but I think a question you know something that that is a live question for us right now um is how could we welcome people that we're not already working with um into this project and give them a real voice in the room um in a way that feels like meaningful to them yeah that's I'm sure there are some people out there in the hell round world who will have some thoughts about that for you yeah we are happy to hear those thoughts yeah really we welcome those thoughts you know however broad or small they are yeah it's something we've talked a lot about I'll say something that happened recently with me was uh we had a design meeting and I just met we're working on a piece called The Hang and so it's kind of about hanging out so Nigel Smith who's directing he just had us all like go around and talk about just uh some kind of origin story of our lives you know it seems like group therapy but it immediately connected me with everybody and I knew most of them but I just it just was it was so simple it was a Meredith um not to give away anything away about our life but Meredith who works at here she she told the story and I thought here Meredith was always this producer who I worked at here and I was like oh yeah she's the person that works at here and suddenly I felt so emotionally connected to her just because she told the story of you know she was given the space to tell a story about her life I thought all right now I'll never have a problem with a contract with her because I'll see her as a person before I see her as a piece of paper for somebody who's given me a piece of paper so it's that I will say is what I don't I'm no shame that I'm 47 other than I just learned that technique but that is the technique to use there you go thank you that's really nice yeah that's just cool um anything else you guys want to add we're looking for places to show the piece too you're right yeah bring us to your theater what oh yeah that's a whole nother conversation about how you're taking your world your work out into the world but we could do that a later time all right great thanks everybody thanks