 We are live. This is Marco Mengelstorpe here in what I call the People's Republic of Santa Cruz, beautiful California, where I am teaching this quarter at University of California Santa Cruz. And I am so, so very pleased to start out the month of April with my friend, State Senator Laura Ocasio, who represents the first Senate district, if I'm not mistaken, from the east side of my hometown in Hilo. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mahalo Nui for joining me today. I'm just so, so pleased to have you on Laura. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Marco. It's wonderful honor to be here. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna go hopefully in all kinds of fascinating places during time together. But I think my, my first intro question to you is going to be what brought you into politics. Yeah, okay. So that actually takes me way back to my childhood, actually growing up in a very politically aware family who are very quickly involved. Some of my earliest memories are actually of my father hosting solar power awareness parties in maybe the 1980s, probably 1984. And as just a part of his contribution to the raising of awareness around the need for solar power, and this is way back in the day. So, you know, oftentimes in my family, we need to have talks around the dinner table, we'll be taking us to public meetings and just teaching us to engage civically a typical field trip in my family might be to the water reclamation plant, for example. And so, you know, I also then got my bachelor's degree in geography here in University of Hawaii at Mandoa, and subsequently got into a bit of resource management positions and studying ecology. And it really occurred to me, though, that the future is in our, in our students. And so I began emerging into the field of education. Thank you, well. Most recently, however, well, actually, in around 2016, I really started seeing the need to get involved in our local Democratic Party. And, and be at the table, I recognize that it was quite an exclusive group and a lot of decisions were made without much input from the extended community. And I felt like my voice was not necessarily a part of that. So I wanted to just jump in and be involved and felt like if I don't join the table, someone else perhaps will. And I think that that bringing that voice to that table was really important. So I got involved in the Democratic Party and started learning about local politics, which I had been following myself, continuing as a constituent, but just got more involved. And then in the vacancy of Senate District 1C, when Congressman Cahele will lead to Congress, I put in my name for application and was appointed by Governor Huguet in January 2021. So that brings me to where I'm at now. And I'm so grateful for all I have learned and grown in the last year and a half in this position. Super. So you had, you had a one in three chance, I believe once your name was submitted, right? How surprised were you that you, you were the winner? I was incredibly surprised in a lot of ways, although I do have to say that many folks around me said that it gave them hope and that they weren't surprised. They appreciated that I was there to represent their voice now in the state Senate. And I think the biggest emotion and feeling that I had was a complete humility and reverence because to be able to represent a larger group of people and, you know, to take that job seriously is an incredible honor, especially if it's like, you know, who had, you know, which has very deep roots and culture and, yeah, I just feel really honored to represent Hilo and the people of Hilo. So one of the questions I'd like to ask everybody who, as the, the kindness of coming on the show, is what in your position now as Hawaii State Senator, and this is your second legislative session, if I'm not mistaken, the first one being last year, what has surprised you the most? Because, you know, we go into, to a new job, a new position with all kinds of expectations preconceived or otherwise about what the job is going to be like. And given that life is, it can be surprising to say the least and unpredictable, what, what has surprised you the most as you've been getting your, your sea legs, so to speak, there in the Senate? Great question. I love this question. So a couple of things come to mind, Marco, and one is that things aren't always as they seem. And what I mean by that is, you know, a lot of times we get a lot of our information via press and media, and they don't always get it right. And so, and they also can potentially put spin, whether it's on purpose or not, just if it happens. And so I think that's an interesting part because being in the Senate, you witness and see a lot of the inside conversations and potential, even baseball, that happens amongst the chambers. And to have that perspective is quite unique. And it really made me grow in my own self, actually, as far as my own assumptions and presumptions about things and kind of take a step back and really analyze. But one thing I do want to say in terms of that surprise is that I'm really surprised at the degree at which legislators, including new legislators coming in are expected to conform to certain protocols that really ultimately serve Senate leadership and for Senate, I'm sorry, the Senate first and foremost, as opposed to having really deep critical thinking on a little engagement on issues, very little discussion and really actually no deep debate. And part of that is that the legislative session is crammed into a really short period of time where a lot of things, a lot of issues come through. And so really having the deep, robust discussion around some of the issues, especially unintended consequences, don't always have the opportunity to come out. And so an example in terms of questioning protocols too is, for example, the unilateral control that a chair has in what bill gets heard and really in terms of how to build, whether it comes out or not, and in what form it comes out. And that was very surprising to me because I don't feel that that necessarily represents a constituency voice. And it also is accepted as politics and a political norm. However, it doesn't question the nature of it being a violation of our constitutional right for equal representation. Meaning then chairs have actually more control or more power, I should say, in terms of the outcomes of legislation than do senators of other districts if they're not chairs. And so that was actually very ideal for me and a very useful tool in terms of being a citizen here and how I go about navigating in that protocol, if you will. Well, of course, what you're talking about is something I've referred to in my own mind, at least as a tyranny of the chair, which it's not unique by any way, a stretch or form to Hawaii by any stretch. That's certainly the case in the US Congress and I'm sure in most of not practically all of legislatures across the mainland US. What do you think is a, would be a practical and realistic and not too much of a polyana fix or solution to that without getting, without seeing the committee process turn into something of a circus. How do you democratize what goes on within legislative committees so that there are more voices heard so that there is more democracy, right, more exchange of views and more input. How would you, if you could wave your Laura magic wand, how could you fix that? That's a good one. I think some suggestions around that would be to, for example, with so many members of the Senate or so many members within the committee would like to hear a certain bill, like maybe they signed on as an introducer and would have a number, let's say 10 or even a majority, like we have 13, we have 25 senators in the State of Hawaii. It's 13 signed on to a bill that it would automatically get, get heard in committee, for example. Again, trying to, again, bring in more of a voice of the rest of the membership, which means the rest of the state constituency that can help determine what gets heard. Another piece is that in the structural shift in terms of leadership would be that members actually do engage and chairs engage more with their membership and come up with solutions and allow that dialogue rather than just having it more than lateral. Another piece, too, would be a more of a robust rotation system where you don't have someone who's been in the Senate for 13 plus years, who's never had a chairperson shift, for example, that people would get given the opportunity at different points to rotate through them. Again, it would have to be designed, obviously, with some pretty deep experience and intentions in terms of not making it a surface like you say. So that's one way. But I honestly think a big part of it is just moving away from those expectations and really being able to basically having legislators who are willing and know that their obligation is to read the bills and do due diligence around all of the language within the bills and to be able to communicate back and forth with their chairs. That's part of it. Well, given, if I'm not mistaken, the power distribution in the Hawaii State Senate is there 24 out of 25 members who are Democrats. I'm not sure if there's a legislative body in the mainland that has that or perhaps even a majority or a unanimity in terms of having all votes, but it's 24 to one with Senator Kurt Fevella being the lone Republican, kind of similar to Sam Slom when he was the lone Republican. And within that group of 24 state senators who are Democrats, there are those who have more power, right, more influence than there are those who have less power and less influence. That's kind of the way of the world to some extent, right? So given that you're somewhat of a newbie there, right, and you are going to be running for reelection in the months to come, what kind of difference do you feel that you are making, that you have made so far in your your time there at the Senate? That's a good question. Thank you for asking. I think a big piece is just coming at it and not and doing my best to not get entangled in those political expectations and to really, excuse me, really move away from those expectations and maybe norms that where I understand how they evolve and the need for mutual respect, for civility, for decorum, those are all very important. And yet, not necessarily going along with things just because that's how it's been done in the past. Part of what has come up for me in terms of even looking at reelection is that there's a fear factor that can come into play if one allows it, which is, oh, if I don't go along with this, then I perhaps won't be re-elected. And when I sit with that for myself, I feel like I trust my path. And so, you know, there's work to do in all realms. And I would absolutely, I'm joyful in the work that we're doing here by reading all the bills. That's part of I think the difference that I'm making is setting that bar and that example of reading the bills and asking the questions during hearings so that we can tease out some of these really important aspects of really how to make a bill better and how to have it be a reflection of something for the greater good, the more common good. You know, and looking at that, you know, approaching these discussions, like I said before, is a big piece to it. But really taking critical thinking skills in all of the legislation that comes before me. And looking at what we can offer those eyes and ears and being those eyes and ears is a true reflection of constituency. Just to tag on to that one tiny bit is that one thing that I feel like I bring is also listening to all of the voices. But even though I personally may have a certain viewpoint on an issue, it is really important that I listen to opposing viewpoints or especially if there's multiple reasons to it because I feel like that's a big part of where the answer lies is in a lot of that and not necessarily in the sense of compromise, but just in being able to really investigate the issue I had and to listen to a constituency. And that's really my job and that's part of the due diligence. I'll do drill, you know, spend a little bit of time on energy issues because that's of course what I've devoted a lot of my life professionally over the decades. And energy of course is a very big deal these days. It's hitting people hard in the pocket book for utility prices are at a record high, gasoline is at a record high, not knowing when that's going to peak because we don't know it's peaking till we're on the other side of the peak. So it is still peaking, right? So what is going on Laura? What's going on in the Senate these days and for the balance of the session regarding energy issues? What's on your plate? What's on the Senate's plate as far as energy? Well, one of the first is that we will be, we're waiting to have a scheduled hearing on the public utilities commission, committee member, Commissioner, that was appointed by Governor E.B. Naum and Kauai. I think right now senators are in process of interviewing Mrs. Kauai and, you know, formulating, doing their due diligence and research as I am myself and taking into consideration as well on public input and voices that have are reaching out from the community in this realm. So I think that's a really big one. So far I have not seen that her nomination is or her governor's message is up for a hearing. Well, actually, if I may, if I may add to that, I actually, I sent you an email earlier today because I got a response. I sent an email to Senator Rosalind Baker on Maui because she's the chair of the Commerce and Consumer Protection Committee. And I got a quick reply from one of her staffers today, very pleased to see government being responsive, right? And I was informed that the plan, I believe, is just said to schedule a hearing in Senator Baker's committee next week, next week. So that's that's the news on that. Just thank you for informing me. It's great. I was definitely, I was on a plane this morning, so out of reception from back internet. Wonderful to hear. And I, my guess, too, on that is to allow the Senate enough time to do their due diligence even before the hearing occurs. Because same thing, here's an opportunity to question, you know, public testimonials and folks who do come on that have support or concerns. And so long as we do our due diligence before, then that's a robust discussion. And yeah, so that's wonderful. And then some of the other things we do have, we're looking at, there's a bill, Senate Bill 2720 that is still moving in the house side, I believe, and it's allowing new electric vehicle charging stations and certain upgrades and helping to qualify for rebate. We also have Senate Bill 2963 relating to energy efficiency. And it's requiring an establishing deadlines for state facilities and does except for smaller facilities, but larger state facilities to adopt cost effective energy efficiency measures within their buildings. And so really coming from the state side, you know, similarly to our agriculture is if we mandate procurement for local agriculture, then we have a huge impact in that in that our commitment is very large. So that's the idea with that one. Senate Bill 3205 is another one that is still moving. And that it authorized the Hawaii Technology Development Corporation to temporarily reestablish the Hawaii Office of Naval Research Grant program and to provide 50, 50% matching grants to Hawaii awardees alternative energy research grants from the Department of Defense and Naval Research. And so again, trying to incentivize and motivate different ways that we get, especially large energy reserves to conform and adopt. Well, I got, I got, I got to say, and this is one of mine, I think you can cue the, the squeaky violins here, one of the biggest disappointments I've had regarding the Hawaii Legislature over the past five or six years is that the efforts to try to establish a tax credit specific to energy storage has failed, failed, failed, failed, failed. It's made it into conference committee a number of times, but never got out of conference. And I don't even think such a bill was in play this past session, which is really, you know, disappointing because with more renewables, you need more storage. And this is a way of incentivizing more storage to get, and we need not just a little bit more storage, we need exponentially more storage, but for whatever reasons, there hasn't been a political will to do that. So that's the way it goes. But I wanted to ask you, you know, in light of Senator or State, sorry, Hawaii County Mayor, Mitch Roth, asking the governor on a number of occasions to declare a so-called energy emergency because of reasons we talked about before as far as the, the bigger chunk, the bigger bite that energy is taking out of people's pockets. Is there anything that you are aware of or can think of that the state government can do, can do, should do right now to be able to mitigate the pain that so many Hawaii residents are suffering now because of high energy prices? Yeah, Hawaii's energy costs have always been the highest in the nation. That's a big thing that we are aware of and we experience here as consumers. Now that the utility is no longer required to pay the avoided costs for renewable energy contracts, the state really should be doing all it can to find ways to take advantage of these, take advantage of homegrown resources, local ownership of energy project projects is really important. We should be able to keep the profits here for further ventures and support the local economy. And I think a big part of that too is in implementing, I mean, energy is also really consumed a lot in the transportation sector as well. So again, moving towards, you know, electric vehicle access needs, etc. That's really important. But also like you said that one of the biggest conversations is around firm renewable energy right now here in the state. And just to your point around battery storage, that shifts a lot of the conversation of solar not being firm to a much more firm and reliable source if you're able to incentivize battery storage from batteries as well. Well, in drilling in the last few minutes we have together here, Laura, drilling down into a couple of big islands in particular issues. One, you know, the good news as far as I'm concerned is that the Public Utilities Commission has conditionally approved the amended and restated power purchase agreement between Pune geothermal venture and telco, which will bring, over time, it will bring down the cost of telco power to the 85,000 or so ratepayers on the big islands. So that is in the works. And then kind of one of the other big issues on the big island of course is the proposed power plant up in Pippa Keo, who Honewa, aka Honewa Ola, which the folks behind that have been added for a long time now, 10 years or so. And the PUC has a decision pending on that power purchase agreement. So to kind of cut into the chase, what is your position on whether the commission should approve that amended and restated power purchase agreement before, before it right now? So there, I'm imagining drawing up their their decision making in the next short amount of time. And I absolutely think that it's important for the consideration, the fact that this is a, they're looking at a third year contract with the Public Utilities Commission, I'm sorry, with the power purchase agreement, which will have significantly higher rates for consumers or for people and then potentially passed on to consumers. And so I think in terms of looking at the consumer advocate with the ECGA and the state's position on protecting the consumer in terms of having higher costs for the next 30 years, to move down to, you know, really take that into consideration. I would support that, absolutely. Folks are already having a hard time with the current prices, and I think that increases it significantly even more so from the Hamilton and Fox Tribal. So to be clear, if I heard you correctly, you are not in support of the current PPA that is before the Public Utilities Commission now regarding who are coming online. Well, there's- Let me have a little show on that subject matter, actually. Yes, yeah, we've had Henry Curtis on a number of times. I mean, I'm no stranger to the subject as well. I've spoken about it as well as Jay Fidel. So I mean, as both someone in the energy arena and someone who is also studying it kind of from an academic perspective, what's going on in our state, what's going on on our island is just so fascinating from so many different levels. And comparatively speaking, we on the big island have it more better as far as power generation, as far as reserve margin is referred to utility business compared to, let's say, Oahu, where the AES power plant, which has been burning coal these past years in, by the way, the coal powered electricity that AES has been selling to HECO over the years has been at somewhere around four cents a kilowatt hour, four cents a kilowatt hour. It's the cheapest power that HECO is buying from an independent power producer. So once AES goes offline definitively in September, automatically there's going to be an increase in Hawaiian electric rates because they're going to have to make up that generation purchasing it from more expensive sources. So it's just so interesting to look from the big island to Maui, Lanai, Molokai, Oahu and Kauai that we're all in the same state of course, but we're all at different kind of stages in our energy transformation, so to speak. And I think it's way cool because I'm kind of biased, of course, I'm a big island guy, is that we on the big island are running kind of neck and neck with our friends at Kauai Island Utility Co-op in terms of the highest percentage of renewables with KIUC being numero uno last year and they are making great strides and the big island is nipping at their heels. So I think that's a great competition to see who can, as I've been saying over the years, it's not renewables at all costs, it's renewables at being cost effective and it's getting more and more cost effective. So, well, State Senator Laura Ocasio, it's been so sweet and so lovely to have you on. I hope we can have you again sometime in the months to come, but in the meantime, Mahalo Nui and Ahui Ho. Thank you, Marco, so much for having me. I look forward to more discussions. Thank you. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.