 Welcome to Culture Hub Refest for a conversation about separation and reunification, families, arts, and advocacy. Much to all of you for being here today. I am the curator, Catherine, for you, a playwright, librettist, and activist. I'm in New York City on the land of the Lenape people. I'd like to introduce our wonderful panelists. We'll have a discussion, show clips from their work, and do a Q&A with the audience. The event will run an hour. Please join us in asking questions and sharing with us. Belen Moyano, originally from Argentina, is a New York City based performer and advocate for immigrants. She was featured in Culture Hubs turning your body into a compass about children and deportation. She is currently performing in the national tour of Hades Town. Belen, where are you right now? Hi, I'm currently in Minneapolis, Minnesota, land of the Wapakute people. Wonderful. Welcome and thank you for being here. Emilio Williams is a bilingual award-winning writer and educator based in Chicago, whose new play 3.5 Sisters explores family separation during the pandemic. Emilio is currently on a trip involving family reunification in an undisclosed location that we are going to learn now. Where are you, Emilio? In Paris. I'm in Paris, land of the French, I guess. And are you being reunited with anybody right now? Yes, actually I'm at the end of the trip to reunite with my family and the other half of my family here in Paris. You're the first time in two years. Oh, wonderful. Very lucky to be here. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. Carly Perez Fernandez is communications director at Detention Watch Network, a national coalition which builds power through collective advocacy to abolish U.S. immigration detention. Carly, where do you find yourself right now? Hi everyone, it's wonderful to be with you today. I am in Arlington, Virginia, which is the Pisco Way people. Thank you very much for being here. And we now have Jane Shim, the senior policy attorney at the Immigrant Defense Project. Jane works on advocacy that fights criminalization of immigrants. And she will be providing for us concluding remarks before the Q&A. And Jane, where are you currently? Well, I'm glad to be here. I am on Wilmafe land. I'm in Brooklyn, New York. Hey, great. Wonderful. Thank you. So before we begin, I would like to take a minute of silence for the Ukraine. Thank you to everyone. Again, you have personal experience with family separation and reunification. Would you speak to us about that and how that shaped your advocacy? Yes. I was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina. And my family came to the U.S. when I was nine years old. Our process was difficult. We saw asylum. We had tomarried 9-11 and our process got stopped. And so my family made a conscious choice and we stayed in the country. And I was heavily affected throughout my upbringing by the immigration system and its many loopholes and it's many things. And it has shaped the way in which I carry myself as a performer. mainly what I currently am right now, but as an advocate as well. I feel so blessed that my family was not separated, but I can imagine what that could feel like. And I have seen it firsthand with people in my community. So I strive to be involved in as many organizations as I can and I'm blessed to be bilingual. And so I also do a lot of translation work for organizations like Safe Passage that work with attorneys who are helping families be reunited. That's a little bit about that. Thank you, that's so inspiring and moving. Emilio, you have written a play called 3.5 Sisters, which is a riff on Chekhov that explores family separation during the pandemic. Before we discuss it, we'd like to show a clip. And Emilio, could you set this up for us? If I remember what we're seeing in the final clip, the grandfather is in assisted living facility and the three sisters have been crashing in one apartment in the last minute for the lockdown. So they communicate with him via Zoom. Great, thank you. I think it's all of that reality TV that people who are always on their phones, how'd you call them? Millennials? No, yes, but the millennials who make money. Influencers? That's it, influencers. Is it true that this is a job now? I guess for some. Amazing, look, I'm not saying that the past is better. But? But! In my time, if we wanted to have an opinion, we read a book or two. You know, maybe I'm a smart ass about Faulkner, but hey, you know, I went to school for many years. So if I want to bitch about Faulkner, I get to do it because I read Faulkner. And extensive secondary literature, peer review, not blogs. I know. But in academia, you were also hoarding the right to have an opinion that wasn't right either. Say what you want, but I miss the actual experts. We don't have enough of those. But you know, please understand this. All these books we grew up with and around, books everywhere, Virginia Woolf and the whole nine yards, are they making us any happier? Of course not. No? Then... They're helping us to talk about our unhappiness better. They give us a vocabulary and ability to diagnose our miseries. I don't know. You should see my two sisters. Maybe we trade? Books? No! You move in with this two trochloride. And I move there to watch the Bachelorette with the old ladies. You are a very good woman. You are! Suddenly there is the loud sound of an ambulance. They get quiet and look up. Another one. Another one. You have no idea what I would give for one of your hugs right now. I'm afraid you would break my bones. That's it. I would hug you so hard I would break your every bone. You are so sweet. You actually are. Scene five. Thank you so much, Emilio. That is such a moving piece. Will you speak about this play in terms of family separation, reunification, the arts, and advocacy? Yeah, so when I started making this version of Chekhov, I was trying to plan how can we... I felt by the time we come back to the theater, we're gonna need a lot of healing to happen, number one. And what would be a play that could be healing I was trying to do? I've been known for writing very cynical comedies and very unkind comedies kind of thing. And I wanted to do one that was kind this time around. And I was worried at that time, maybe if we write a role for an older person, maybe this actor won't be able to perform on stage. So I created the device of having the actor on Zoom as a way to facilitate all in the cast without being at risk, right? Because we didn't know at that point there was no vaccine and all that. Right. So that was kind of the concept behind this play and that device. I have to say I'm terribly upset today, particularly with the situation in Ukraine because of the bombing in the theater, right? And we're thinking about that we don't know how many people died there, but spirituality and religion as up in the West to begin with with the Athens, right? Being religious festivals, but liturgies and everything else. And the idea that people cannot be safe in a hospital or a church or a particularly vicious, right? An upsetting. So I guess that connects those two thoughts. Thank you. Carly, you craft the message for Detection Watch Network and oversee its communication strategy to end immigration detention. How does DWN approach family separation and what does the fight to end detention look like? And could you share current news regarding child separation? Yeah, so I think I wanna start by just going back a little bit to 2018 when we saw the implementation of Trump's zero tolerance policy, really dictating that all migrants who cross the border without permission be referred to the Department of Justice for prosecution that then when caused parents and children to be separated. As we all remember, this policy really ignited a firestorm and the advocate and artist community did an incredible job uniting to call it out as family separation, really mobilizing hundreds of thousands of people who many of didn't even know about immigration detention to speak out against it. The family separation narrative under Trump was so strong that I think today, we are challenged with making it clear that family separation still happens every single day and did well before Trump as well. When ICE locks people up in immigration detention and slash or deports them back to the very place that they were fleeing. So for those that are less familiar, just to give a quick kind of snapshot, ICE's immigration detention system is made up of a network of approximately 200 jails across the country. And as of Tuesday, I just checked the numbers, there are over 20,000 people detained in ICE custody. So really, that's family members, that's friends, that's coworkers, that's neighbors, that's our loved ones who are subjected to a detention system that simply does not need to exist. In terms of the fight to end detention, for us as detention watch network, we really drive that work alongside our membership within two primary campaigns, one being communities not cages that supports local campaign efforts to shut down existing detention centers and stop the expansion or construction of new facilities. Two weeks ago, we held a communities not cages national day of action that had over 20 events across the country take place of people demanding to end detention. And then our second primary campaign is called Defund Hate, which is a coalition of organizations working to significantly cut funds for ICE and CBP through the budget and appropriations process while demanding our tax dollars. We use to invest in education, housing and healthcare, things that really support our collective community wellbeing. So in addition to those two pillar campaigns, we also do support work on specific issue areas like child detention. So providing like a quick update on where we're at there. You know, we're over a year since the Biden administration opened dozens of what they call emergency intake sites in response to unaccompanied migrant children arriving at the US-Mexico border. At least three sites remain open and these sites were meant to be temporary. And yet in February, the Office of Refugee Resettlement posted a notice indicating its intent to issue new contracts to keep two of those infamous child detention facilities open while also looking to expand its network of child detention sites. These facilities, which are unlicensed and not subject to the same requirements and regulations as other ORR facilities because they're considered emergency intake, have a well-documented history of neglect and abuse. So to wrap up, we're definitely concerned with the administration's ongoing reliance on immigration detention and also expansion of immigration detention, including the detention of children. And instead, you know, are definitely continuing to advocate for solutions that consider the best interests of children specifically, but to end the detention system overall. Thank you so much, Carly. We really appreciate the work that you're doing. Belen, you're currently on the road on the first national tour of Hades Town. How has that informed your sense of family's arts and advocacy? I think it's such a gift to be able to see the United States as a whole. We're only staying in country this year and we've had the opportunity to see various communities and interact with them as best as we can amidst a pandemic. But overall, the show itself, to me at least, if you know the piece, it was written by Anais Mitchell and directed by Rachel Chafkin. There's a special focus and I see it as a thematic element that reminds me every single day as I'm doing the show of climate migration, of people having to flee their countries or their place of residence and finding home elsewhere, but never quite being able to truly settle. And so as I'm reminded every night, I think of what I can personally do to better the communities that I'm serving, better educate others, use my platforms to ensure that those who are not being seen are able to at least be heard. And I've done some work with immigrant families together, a couple of benefit concerts and there's some things planned for the future, but trying to inspire others to ask themselves, know these questions of how would it feel to be on the other side, truly, on the other side of the wall and what type of treatment would you like to have and what are the small steps that we can take every single day to ensure that the lives of others are better, especially the people within our own communities. So it's been a journey so far and I look forward to seeing what comes from that and the art that I feel this show in particular will inspire others to create and help them better. There's a line in the show that says, to the world we dream about and the one we live in now and how can we help others dream up better futures? So that's a little blur. Unifly said, thank you. Emilio, you told me a while ago, losing our elders is also what happened to us with the AIDS crisis, our non-biological parents. In the gay community, this created a broken lineage that we're just starting to understand now. How does this relate to family separation and reunification right now? Wow, yeah. So I think it's so hard for us to drop numbers. That's why in theater, we talk about one family, but then you have to think about the millions of families whose grandparents were in assisted living, for example, right? The AIDS crisis was so brutal for my generation and the one that came before me, particularly, I mean, in the North Atlantic, right? If you look at the history of art and theater and all, you see almost everybody died of AIDS, right? On the new canon. And now when I teach to younger gay people, I realize now I'm starting to see that almost like a baton that didn't have a chance to be passed in many ways of our culture. So if you look at a group that has a risk of being erased and forgotten, right? Like, I mean, would you imagine any other group that will have a law in Florida saying, don't say their name, don't say gay? It's coming back and it's going to come back. So that is very sure that it keeps going. If we go through ups and downs in the theories, we could be more open, we can be more open, but it will come again. The lineage is very important because a lot of things where the transmission of knowledge and art and form and love and lessons on how to live as a gay man, for example, all those things were vernacular. There was not a textbook, a family tradition. There was not a church. There was not school to go to, right? The way we are indoctrinated to be a straight in the school, you don't get indoctrinated to be gay in the school, right? So all those things were happening in the vernacular, but that generation was either sick or dying or it was brutal and now that I'm 50, I'm starting to notice it more and more somehow. But the last thing very quick I want to say is that we had a million people almost in the US who died of COVID, right? And we know how it affected all their people disproportionately. So that's what I'm thinking about all these things, right? Because what else, that's why I write that play, right? Like having a chance to have the grandparents having a conversation with their grandkids before it's too late, right? What other histories are we gonna lose with those million people die is my big concern. Thank you so much. Carly, can you speak all our installation in front of the White House last summer, which featured portraits of formerly detained leaders? Yeah, so we had six people directly impacted by ICE's immigration detention system, kind of featured in three primary ways. One, a 35 second animated video, individual portraits that were posted to our social media platforms, and then an art installation on the White House ellipse, which is the backside for those who don't know, that was featured in Teen Vogue. And so let's maybe start with the animated video, if I can ask for the team to queue that up. Free. Free to hug my family. Free, free to share a meal with friends. Free, free to relax in my home. Every person has a right to move and live freely in community and with their family, without fear of being separated from their loved ones or displaced from their home. Simply put, people navigating their immigration case should be able to do so with their families and loved ones, not behind bars and immigration detention. Watchnetwork.org. So when I just have to say, I think this was the shortest video we've ever made, so that was a feat in and of itself. But I really approached this project from friends that is centering artists and directly impacted storytellers to really drive home our deep narrative value that was featured that you just heard in the video of every person has the right to move and live freely in community and with their family, without fear of being separated from their loved ones or displaced further from their home. So really focusing on that deep narrative value rather than going into the many, many ways that this system, this immigration detention system is stacked against people. We focused on that deep narrative value, which felt like a uniqueness to this project. I think a couple of other kind of core insights from this freedom directly impacted people who have experienced immigration detention are the most effective and thought provoking messengers. We know that the most effective way to talk about potential or current harm is through stories, by showing rather than telling. And we really tried to focus that in on the Teen Vogue piece where five of the six folks that were featured in the portraits were actually quoted in the story, which felt like a big win having that many directly impacted quotes, right? And then the second big takeaway for me on this work was just artist collaboration is essential to create depth and richness in our storytelling, right? So that relationship between advocate and artist and obviously artists are also advocates, but really having that like fostered relationship was really important. And this project wouldn't have been possible without trusted artist collaborations from our videographer to Angelica Frausto of nerdy brown kid. I encourage you to check out her Instagram. She was the artist behind the beautiful portraits that you just saw in the video and that were also featured in the art installation on the White House lawn. And then Nadine Blotch, who's an artist and producer here in DC, who actually executed the Free Them All letters. We had seven foot tall Free Them All letters that we put in the lawn very strategically and was just a real massive undertaking in terms of working between advocate and artist to make this project come together both from video perspective, the actual art installation and then getting the piece in Teen Vogue as well. Beautiful, thank you so much. Belen, Culture Hub and I were fortunate that you performed in my web drama Turning Your Body Into a Compass about children and deportation. That was in 2019. I thought we'd start by showing a brief clip of you playing the role of Christina, the mother of Mateo, a little boy who is traumatized because his mother may soon be deported. And then we'll talk a little bit about it. Thanks. The problems with them he forgets. He hits himself. He's very worried about the caravan doctor. He uses body to find directions. What do you mean? To help him remember like this, to figure out the way. East, west, north, south. They're coming from the north, mama and the caravan and the others are going south. I see. And then he says, if they take you and I'm not here, I join another family and pretend I'm one of their kids. How would anyone notice if the last one in the back wasn't part of the family? But he says, if the duckling strays from the mother as is touched by human hands, the mother will never take him back. Do you know is this true? The mother will want to find her baby duck. His mind is too busy, always jumping. We went to the procession for the day of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Do you know Our Lady, La Vigencita? No. Thank you. He was snowing. He was dressed like Juan Diego in the white cloak. Do you know Juan Diego? No. That's Mateo in the white cloak? Nice. Mateo loved the music and the procession, crying. I see he forget to put on his socks. We'll go to the basilica and pray, he say. She tells Juan Diego when she appeared to him on the mountain, she say, I want a little house, a house that's safe. And she make it happen. She'll protect us. La Virgen de Guadalupe appear on Juan Diego's cloak just like mine right here. When he bring the bishop the flowers. The cloak is still there in the basilica. There's proof, mama. Mateo's always watching me. He's afraid to leave me to go to school. He has to go to school. He's afraid you'll be taken away when he's not there. Yes, and I'm very careful. Obey all the rules. Don't drive so I don't get over it. Thank you. Helen, we made that in 2019, which was actually before the pandemic. And one of my dreams was to try to create something that could be done for free that anybody could watch if they had internet. And I'm just curious how you feel the project or your thoughts about how things have changed or developed. I think that you were a visionary thinking it up even before a pandemic hit. A lot of incredible art was made that was virtual and then that was able to be shared during the pandemic. But for that to, now that I think about it, for that to have been that initial spark that we can share is incredible. While watching the clip, I just remembered during the time I was still waiting for my green card and it was very stressful. There was a lot going on government-wise. I was a dreamer and a lot of that was currently being debated and I had a lot of anxiety. And when you reached out and asked me to be a part of this, as I was reading the script and as I was doing the thing, I felt so seen in a way that I think was incredibly healing for me and helped me be able to cope during that time of anxiety. I'm truly grateful for that and the wonderful people that worked on that project. I also think the opportunity to, as Carly was saying, for art to be this medium that we utilize to reach the masses, but to also share a topic that's very difficult to discuss. It's one of those heated topics where if you start talking about it at the dinner table, everybody will have a different viewpoint on it, but getting to sit down and observe and listen, it truly helps us be able to work through our own feelings. And so I just have a lot of gratitude for that. So do I. And I thought you had such a wonderful relationship with Felipe Salinas, who played Mateo. It was really a pleasure to watch that. So now it's my great pleasure to open this up to Jane Shim and her important work. We will then do a Q and A. Jane, could you speak about your work regarding separations of family due to incarceration, detention and deportation, specifically in the interior, tied to harms of the U.S. criminal system? Thanks. Yeah, thank you. And thanks for having me. I'm really, it's been great to see the work that everyone's been involved in. And it's not something I always get to do in my job. So it's always really refreshing to have that artistic perspective. I just wanna talk about, yeah, the work that my organization, Immigrant Defense Project does. I think it's a little more challenging to process and think about because we work exclusively with people who've had contact with the criminal system and face detention, deportation, loss of immigration status because of that contact. And I just wanted to mention, I think kind of one of the iconic moments in this area of work was when President Obama in office and he gave a speech about immigration and he said, we're like doing it differently. We are not going after just anyone. We're going after people who pose like a quote, public safety threat. And he was like, we're gonna focus on deporting felons and not families. And a lot of people hear that and they're like, oh, that's great. They're not gonna go after innocent people who haven't done anything wrong. But the thing is it's really a false dichotomy, right? Because it originally on their records obviously have families. And so I just wanted to, I think that's kind of an important moment for us in our work to think about how politically it's this kind of like painting of a threat to safety has been a really huge part of how immigration has worked in the United States. And it really kind of just paints people one dimensionally dehumanizes them and uses this label without giving that context that people have loved ones and families and communities here. And that doesn't change just because you get, you have some type of contact with the criminal system. And in particular, right now there's thanks to tons of organizing for decades. And I don't know how long but people are really looking at police and prisons and starting to see how the systems work and how it was designed to target particular people, black people, Latinx, people of color, poor people and how brutal that system has been. And so one of the questions that we think about is why does our immigration system rely on the criminal system when we know that it functions in such a harmful, unjust and racist way. And kind of related to that there's this obsession with punishment in our country, like perpetual punishment. And in the case of immigrants, punishment doesn't end with potentially like being harassed by the police going through like a really challenging, often very unjust criminal legal process and then facing maybe an excessive sentence. Even if you get through all that and you complete your sentence you can face arrest, imprisonment and another legal process, authorities. And so it's kind of this, it's kind of this system of permanent perpetual punishment that we see for a lot of people who have migrated here. So just on that and we don't do much artwork but we did do this oral history project and I wanna highlight one of the stories in there from somebody who called their office over a decade ago, his name's Jose Molina and he shares a little bit about his experience here. I grew up being scared of almost everything. So after that incident and getting sent to Rikings Island and just only me just being by myself. You know, I knew after this time, all I really wanted was just like to start a family. So these were like my little goals because now I'm about to do three and a half years well, two and a half to five. I didn't know how long I was gonna do the five but five was the target because that was the max. And just at that time I had to just deal with it and navigate my way, you know, through the correction system and I just like made plans for myself. Like I really wanted, cause I didn't feel any love but my heart is good. So I wanted to give love. So that's what I wanted. My goal was, you know, I just wanna have a wife, wanna have children, just wanna have a job. I just wanna be regular, just wanted to just have a regular life. That's it. To talk about how, you know, he didn't wanna like go to space or be like an astronaut. He just wanted to have a regular life. And after he served a sentence, he ended up doing that, got married and two daughters. But over a decade after he completed his sentence, Ice raided his house early in the morning. He also talks about that in oral history and arrested him. He spent years in detention trying to fight his case. And I think it's something to think about, right? Because Jose is exactly the kind of person that Ice would say, you know, we're not going after innocent people. We're not going after children. We're going after people who pose a public safety threat because he had this conviction on his record to justify what was an incredibly traumatic experience for his family. And it took many years to try to get him out of that process. And finally get him to be freed from immigration detention and able to stay. So I just wanted to share that story and bring that perspective from our side of the work. Thank you. And that is called the life beyond borders oral history project. Is that correct? That's right. Great. Thank you. Yeah. So before we open it up to a Q&A, I wondered if we, if the panelists had any questions for each other, just we have a little time. And I'd love to hear if you have any questions or thoughts. Well, I have, I do for Jane and Carly and even Belen, like how did we get to, like I'm thinking of Carly's message is so obvious, right? It's like, how do we even have to say this? Or Jane, yeah, this is not wanting to be an astronaut. I just want to have a family, a wife and kids. How do you handle that? Like that craziness that this is even something you guys have to fight for so hard. They have to, you know, how do you cope? Yeah, thank you for that, Emilio. I, you know, it's difficult, right? I think it's difficult, but primarily for folks that are directly experiencing the detention system. And I think for us, it's always shocking to know how little people know or understand about immigration detention, about ICE, about CBP. And we know that through different research work that's been done. And I think for us, you know, it's really important, although it's kind of like we're saying to ourselves, yeah, exactly, like, how do you not understand this? There's so much evidence, there's so much documentation showing the abuse and inhumane nature of detention. But knowing that not everyone has that same context or understanding. And so knowing that as advocates, we really need to start from a place of shared values, which is what we were trying to do in the video. And I think what also really speaks to the oral history project as well, right? Saying like, I want to have a wife, I wanna have children, I wanna have a job. That's a lot of things that most of us can identify with on some sort of level, right? So having and creating those shared values can really help to situate everything that comes next in the context of values and intentions we all share. So that the audience experience our issues and our asks in line with rather than in conflict with their own values, if that makes sense. Thank you. Jane? Yeah, I think for me, it's like the people I encounter who are in this situation, like they have hope. Like, who am I to not have hope, even though it's so hard? Like people spend decades in prison and they fight, they work really hard, file legal documents on their own behalf pro bono or pro saying and never stop fighting. And it's sort of like, if I was in that situation, I don't know, it takes an incredible to be able to do that. And I had the privilege to work with a lot of people who have that in them. And I'm like, all right, let's go. You got to kind of show up. So for me personally, I think that helps. Thank you so much. Belen, did you want to say anything? As I was listening to Jane and Carly speak, I couldn't stop thinking about how our biggest goal, and I'm grateful to be putting this into words actually, our biggest goal as artists advocates is to humanize others because it's so easy to other them. And we're looking at what's happening in Ukraine and in all the wars that are currently being fought around the world. And it's so easy to say, well, they're over there and I'm over here and that has nothing to do with me instead of saying that is a child, a daughter, a mother, a son, someone who has a relationship like I do and truly being able to see them as the humans who deserve every single opportunity to succeed and to live and to thrive. So I'm so incredibly grateful for the work that all of you are doing in this Zoom room because it has affected people like me who have been put in boxes and it's very difficult to break out of them with someone worthwhile to be outside of that box. Thank you so much. So we are going to open this up to questions and I'm going to look here and ask, this is from Kelsey Austin. In this age of disease, war and division, we're seeing how beautiful and profound a regular life actually is. We want everyone to be able to embrace loved ones until they nearly break bones as in Emilio Williams' play. For those of us who want more people to have the regular life, what are some first steps to take? Let's stop bumping hospitals. Let's stop bumping theaters where billions are hiding. I mean, this is what I was going with this realness of the situations that we're running into. It's really hard and that's why it was so comforting to see the role of the advocates and the activists in the room, right? So I want to give it to them. Others, anyone else? I get this question a lot and I think the answer, I think the best thing I've come up with is like, you know, some people have like a book club or some kind of like regular meeting they go to. I think finding a local group that you can engage with on kind of a regular basis and whether that's a particular issue or particular, whatever is kind of your thing and to have a sustained engagement with that so you can understand how things are evolving and when there's actions to be taken. I think that's one of the most like kind of meaningful and connected ways. We're actually building relationships with people and deepening understanding there's so much stuff. It doesn't even have to be migration. I mean, there's so much stuff, but having like a or organization that you are regularly engaged with, I think is the best way to build it up. Thank you so much. I'm getting some comment in the chat as well. I would love to add real quickly. There's a question in the Q and A from Alexa. She asked me to repeat the organizations that I mentioned which are families together and safe passage where the two that I put out. But what I always tell people who are looking for ways to get involved, social media is a thing that we all do and many times it can be something to share joy and share bits about ourselves, but it's also an opportunity to elevate organizations. And so I would recommend you follow these organizations and they're always posting. For example, Safe Passage recently posted that they need more volunteers. So if you know another language and you're willing to help out, there's an opportunity for you to just log in on a Zoom and be of service. Little things where you can share what they're doing and it will eventually reach the right person but it'll then inspire you. And the beautiful thing about the algorithm on the internet as well is when you start sharing these things you start seeing more of it. And so eventually you also are filled with ideas of other things that you can do. And just to add on to that too and kind of getting to what Jane was saying as well. There is an existing like really rich network of local organizing happening, right? And has been happening for decades often and majority of time led by immigrants and people who have experienced immigration detention. So really, really encourage folks to get connected to local work and detention watch network can actually help you get connected through our communities not cages campaign to really see where there are already organizations or volunteer groups doing this work. Thank you, Silliam Clark. Question for Carly and Jane. Can you speak a bit to the alternative solutions to immigration detention and what the average person can do to help advocate for these solutions? What are the most pressing goals for immigration reform? So I could start us off and then Jane go to you. I think like purely again as a communications person from a messaging perspective I would argue that we don't even have to get into the weeds of like the policy fixes but just as a core message say like simply put people navigating them regulation can be able to do so with their families and in community not behind bars and immigration detention. Like the system simply just does not need to exist. And for those who need support they should be able to access it through optional community based support programs. Many people in detention especially how Jane was talking about folks who are in the interior who have lived here for years and years and years have our established members of their communities with their families. And moreover people seeking asylum often also have strong ties with loved ones waiting to welcome them to the United States. So really trying to like make that message super clear that as a core that should happen. I think in terms of we talked about child detention in the beginning and I think touching on a couple of more kind of in the weeds solutions for child detention specifically establishing a safe and rapid process for keeping children together with trusted non-parental caregivers at the border is really essential as well as improving the reunification process to more quickly place children with family or sponsors in the US by working with trusted community-based organizations that should never be by ICE or CBP and ending dangerous border policies like Title 42 that started under Trump but now is fully Biden's because he has yet to rescind it that impact families at the border without the use of reliance on detention. So those are a few things that I would name but Jane I'll turn it over to you. I wish I had a good answer for this. Yeah, I would just echo what Carly said. There's a lot of different policies that have been proposed and there was a big effort to have a way for many people to get status and Congress failed to pass or get support for it last year and it's ongoing but it's been really challenging politically and I think to echo what Carly said I think it's just like why are people in these horrific detention centers? I mean, you can look up how horrible the conditions and treatment in these, why because someone migrated to this country and it's trying to figure out their paperwork are they in this detention center? Many people are there indefinitely without any real release date until their case resolves. Like that's not a practical or like it doesn't make any sense. So I think learning more and staying engaged is always a good approach. Thank you. Patricia Krunke writes, loved Emilio's scene with the hands on the screen, the sorrow of disconnection but the beauty of genuine connection that transcends separation. Emilio, I don't know if you want to comment or... Well, it's not a question but I'll comment based on something Belen said at the very beginning that her experience, I love that Belen where you said that you came with your family but somehow that illuminated your sense of what it may be not coming with your family. I'm so touched by that because I truly, I think this is hopefully, I was hopeful that COVID was going to bring good things to us and the lockdown, right? And my idea of me on all my privilege not seeing my family for two years, right? Even though we can communicate and all those things but it gives you a little tiny taste of what these horrible human stories are all about, right? It allows you to think, oh my God, if this is how bad it is for me, how would it be if I was detained for my mom, right? Right. So I think that, and that's what we do in theater, right? Like where do we find the humanity that is common? And it's not about comparing ourselves, right? Because how I could in anywhere compare myself with a dreamer, for example, Belen, as you were saying, right? Like I was so lucky I got the papers. And I was not a dreamer, but I have that sense because when I came, I couldn't speak English and I was treated as if I was, right? So I guess that's what the art component is going to cut bigger picture for the theater. And that's what the art component is going to cut bigger picture for this roundtable is that through art we can like zoom in into these very specific stories that are about common humanity, that show common humanity. Beautiful, yes. Elise Glickman says this, this has been a very powerful meeting. I'm wondering what is behind the US policy about immigration and detention that is causing so much injustice under President Biden? Why hasn't this had more publicity? And then also Elise writes, it would be extremely helpful if an email of all relevant organizations dealing with these issues of detention by ICE, the injustices in our penal system, et cetera be sent to all participants afterwards so we can follow up and find ways to help. So maybe we could just address a little bit of that if possible because we don't have that much time left. I can just jump in and it's really, it's been in place for a really long time, right? Like micro control and border militarization, that's like a demonization of the other. You know, that's like something that's in this country's DNA, the DNA of many other countries. So what we see under this administration is like, there's a gigantic, well-funded infrastructure to do this. ICE as an agency was established after 9-11. So it's not been around forever, but in the past several decades, we've seen just a huge buildup of this machinery. So it's in place and they are using it. That's what I would say, but there's a lack of urgency because, you know, it's not Trump, but as Carly mentioned, there's still tens of thousands of people who are in the tension and many more who are dealing with pace and deportation. Any, Carly, did you want to speak at all? I think Jane hit the nail on the head. Yeah, just the reliance. And again, Jane said this in her opening remarks, reliance on punishment, restriction of movement, really being core to how our immigration system functions. And it was a well-oiled machine before Biden. And unfortunately we're seeing Biden really carry that on. Great. In terms of organizations that would be helpful, it feels like if Elise were to go to your, both of your organizations, there would be a lot of resources there. Is that correct? Yeah. And I'll also say that detention watch network and immigrant defense project work really closely together. Oh, that's great. Our close partners. And so yeah, definitely encourage folks to, to visit. I'm happy for my information to be shared with participants as well, if you have more questions that, or want to be directly connected with like a local campaign that's working to end immigration detention, wherever you are as close to where you are. Thank you so much. So we're almost out of time. There was a question from Effie Redmond. What is the role of art in shifting immigration policy toward a more positive state? I think we've discussed that quite a lot. Yeah. I think it's really essential for advocates. During this hour. Did anybody want to add anything? I'll just add that. I think it's really essential for advocates. Who are solely advocates, not also artists. To really work in partnership with artists. And, and that, that it's a true collaboration between artists and advocate whenever, whenever possible, because that strengthens our overall work. Thank you. Thank you so much to all of these panelists because that's exactly what we did. We came together as artists and as advocates to discuss what is such a very, very crucial and really devastating problem. And then we add to that. The fact that we, we have the Ukraine and, and, and so I just want to thank. The panelists for your generosity. And I want to thank all of the audiences. Audience members that were here. And I hope that we can continue this conversation.