 Guten Abend Volksbühne, Guten Abend Berlin, Guten Abend Deutschland, Guten Abend Europa, Guten Abend to all of you, hoping that something good is beginning here tonight. Guten Abend, even to those few people who are watching the livestream, fearing that something good is happening here tonight. If there is something somewhere that is unacceptable, there has to be a moral responsibility that someone somewhere does not accept it. It is them, the majority suffering in quiet desperation that we must reach out to. Today we have transparent citizens and opaque governments. We must reverse this. The problem for Europe is its lack of integration, its lack of unity, its lack of coherence. DM could be the beginning of something good, but to do that it must reach the millions of citizens outside these walls, living lives of desperation. If we do not, these people will turn to others whose ideas have no connection to democracy, the opposite of DM. This has happened before. So what if we are utopian? Doing nothing is not an option. Thank you. Another world, another Europe is possible. It is on her way and we are part of making it happen. Thank you. Since we are in a theatre, I can only end an answer by quoting Samuel Becker. Try again, fail again, fail better. Yes, Europe will be democratised or it will disintegrate. Recipe to follow. Good evening everyone and welcome to DM25's birthday party. It's been five years already. We've grown a bit older. Our child is also a bit older and a bit more experienced. Unfortunately, it is with great sadness that we are meeting in this digital reality and we won't have drinks at a bar after this celebration. But we prepared a huge program for tonight, so just stay with us. There are many surprises coming, premieres, guests and so on. So as a co-founder of DM25, let me just for the beginning share my joy, my happiness that we succeeded to prepare a recipe, as Brian Inno said, that the folks were in Berlin with very special ingredients. As you might know at the beginning, we didn't have anything except a crazy idea, except a manifesto, a radical manifesto for a radical transformation of the European Union and Europe as such, because we also consider states which are not part of the EU as part of Europe and we have many members there as well. So what were the ingredients Brian Inno was hinting at? The most important ingredient for launching a movement, for leading a movement, for navigating through very dangerous and very different seas from time to time. One of the most important ones is, well, the experience of various struggles, whether these struggles were horizontal or vertical, which we brought to DM from all over Europe, from Greece, from Croatia, from Poland, from Serbia, from many other countries. So this is an experience which is similar but very often also very different, which connected us. Another important ingredient which we used for the recipe which came and about which we will speak about tonight is a lot of patience, a lot of comradeship, a lot of friendship, a lot of love, a lot of understanding and solidarity. These are the ingredients which are needed for any organization. Also self-criticism, because only through self-criticism you can grow, not only as a movement but also as a person. And these were some of the ingredients we were using to launch and navigate our movement. What is the recipe which came out? What are the results of this crazy cooking through the last five years? Well, one of the first results is that today, five years later, we started from zero. Today we have 120,000 members all across Europe, which is quite a number for a movement which is pretty young compared to some other movements, and it is still growing, and it is growing all over the world. One of the results of this cooking is also that we have around 190 DSCs. I mean, for those who are not DMs, in DM sometimes we communicate in very complicated acronyms. DSCs means DM spontaneous collected, so we have more than 190 self-organized groups all around Europe. We have launched various campaigns. We have launched a campaign which is always connected to a policy proposal, to a policy program. We have launched a campaign that was one of our first campaigns on transparency, which now, if you look at the vaccine crisis, it's something which is still pretty relevant. We have launched a campaign on refugees. We have launched campaigns on whistleblowers from the very start. Before it was even popular, we have been supporting Julian Assange and, well, the human rights which are being denies to one of the most courageous publishers of the 21st century. We have been attacked because of it. Many doors have been closed because of it, but until today we stay proud that Julian Assange is our advisory panel member. We have also launched, in the meantime, a whistleblower fund in order to support other whistleblowers. We have launched a campaign and a substantive policy under the name Green New Deal for Europe. We spoke and we developed a Green New Deal even before many are speaking about it today. What we have to do today, of course, is to speak with the many as well and to come to an internationalist, international Green New Deal, but also to go steps beyond, to be very self-critical and to see in which way we can reach something what we are calling post-capitalism. In this sense, we have, I think, achieved many things. We have also participated at the European elections, which was quite an experience for some of us who are not professional politicians. I think we achieved a lot, although we don't have an MEP, but I guess some of the speakers later will speak about that experience. In the meantime, as a consequence, as a result of the pandemic, but also, which I think is very important, as a result of the infrastructure which we have been creating through the last five years, we have created something which you can see the logo on the left or the right. I don't know, DMTV, which is our door, our window into the world, and it's also a window inside of DM25. It reached millions of views. We had many guests from Noam Chomsky to Shoshana Zubo, Fajet Emel Kuran, and many others who are all supporters of DM25, and this is continuing. Before I pass by the floor to the other speakers, we have Ivana Rose-Mariani is here. Let me just add a final point about why I think that DM25 is still relevant today, why I think it's more relevant than ever. Because our analysis from five years ago still unfortunately holds true. We started from the main thesis that the European Union will disintegrate if there is no democracy. Well, today you can see that this is coming true. It is coming true also something what we detected, which is the big divide we have seen it with the experience of the so-called Greek spring, but also with many other countries in the periphery. This is the big divide between the center and the periphery of the European Union, which DM25 was always aware. We were always advocating for a dissolution of this big division. You can see it now with vaccine nationalism and vaccine geopolitics, which is a huge fiasco of the European Union, where you have even bigger divisions inside of the European itself, where you can see that those countries who either exited the EU or didn't enter yet are the record holders in the vaccine rollout in Europe. This is on the one hand UK and on the other hand Serbia. You can see that the European Union is really disintegrating. It is sort of imploding. The state of exception is here. The refugee crisis didn't disappear. The monopoly of surveillance capitalism is stronger than ever. With all the platforms we are using now for remote learning, remote loving, remote organizing, remote everything, and this is one of the reasons why I think DM25 today is more relevant than ever. I could say many other things, but we decided to keep this dynamic, so I will pass the floor to my dear friend Ivana Menadovic, and then we will continue. Ivana. Thank you, Srećko, and good evening everybody. Thank you for being with us tonight and celebrating a big mark. And as Srećko said, since DM25 emerged from the ashes of the Greek Spring, and since we started cooking, confrontation with authoritarian power is in our DNA. While we will rethink our pan-European manifesto, we must also strive to make a real difference at a local level, independently of any structural burdens of DM's vertical part. We are empowering members in order to facilitate direct immediate confrontation with the authoritarian haunting our communities. While our governments are failing us every day, we need united Europe instead of failing European Union. DM was created because the existing political system is broken and beyond repair, because we recognize that the existing political parties were no longer fit to purpose. DM is more relevant than ever because after the period of growing up and maturing, during the 2020 we went into a needed period of introspection, and we made internal changes and improvements. We've professionalized our team. We created easy guidelines, toolkits, and improved communication with our membership. We launched projects our members can easily join, like People's Gatherings, Campaign Accelerator, DM Voice, and Green New Deal Campaign. And we are renewing our coordinating bodies in every country, and we are aiming to grow the movement and to pour our electoral wings all over Europe. In 2021, DM25 will focus on movement building. We have an established network of grassroots organizers who can connect with each other, learn from each other, and fight power together. We have come a long way, but there is still a long journey ahead of us. Here's to us and to many fights that we will win together. Carpe diem. And happy birthday to Ivana, who that's, well, it's a coincidence or not, but Ivana is having a birthday today at the same day of DM25. And the personal is political, so I wish you a very happy birthday Ivana and us. I will pass the floor to my dear friend, Rosemary, who is also a member of the Coordinating Collective, has been part of DM25 from the very start, and I'm really happy to see her well over the screen, but that's what's life today. Rosemary, please, can you share with us your thoughts for this celebration? Thank you, Srećko. Well, it's been a rollercoaster five years since I made my way with my colleagues from open democracy to the Voxbuna Theatre for the inaugural event launching DM25. I was soon entranced, and I have to say hooked, by the very different Europe that was already in the room as an energy weaving many different political traditions, many different cultures, into one ambitious project for the common good. Since then, DM25 has never ceased to introduce me to fascinating new people across Europe and beyond who have the same gleam in their eyes about what we could do together. We have learnt a lot about this and about how much we still have to learn. But today, at a time of vaccine nationalism, and all sorts of other nationalisms, not least the threat which we identified very early on, of the nationalist neo-fascistic international rising across the world. I'm really proud to be part of a pan-European transnational movement dedicated to the democratisation of Europe, a realistic Europe, a pluralist Europe, and a peaceful Europe. At a time when in Britain, we are finally beginning to learn what Brexit means for us. After four years in which our much-wanted Westminster system, with all its broadcasting and media capacity, managed to avoid any adult meaningful political debate about what was at stake for the nations of the UK and for Ireland. I am glad to be in a pan-European movement resolved to defend together our democracies that are under attack in many different ways, a movement determined to reinvigorate its institutions. It is very reassuring to be able to reach out to progressive fellow Europeans for this solidarity in this struggle. But I'm more and more convinced that solidarity across borders in the struggle to defend democracy is the essential component in two of the imminent battles before us, to build a better public health system, fit for all of us, and to secure a green new deal worthy of future generations. So I would like to raise my glass to all the members of DiEM in Europe and beyond, all their friends, the Progressive International, to wish us all the best in our endeavours over the next five years. Carpe Diem. Carpe Diem, Rosemary, and it seems I'm the only one who doesn't have a glass yet, but I'll make sure I find one at home. Thanks for your inspiring speech. Stay with us. The next speaker, well, you can guess who it is. I met the next speaker eight years ago. My God, we are getting old in 2013 at a cinema which was at that time called Kino Europa in Zagreb, Cinema Europe. But the interesting thing is, and it kind of reveals also where DiEM came from at the very beginning, the interesting thing is that this cinema was first called Kino Balkan, so Cinema Balkans. But with all this Europe-positive narrative in Croatia and all these accession countries, of course everything had been turned from the Balkans into Europe. Everyone became ashamed of the Balkans until very recently, even in the United States, they realised that the term Balkanise is becoming very popular. But we understand this very differently from the official meaning. I'm really glad to introduce my great friend, great comrade co-founder of DiEM25, without whom and without whose madness, I would say, madness in the sense of sticking to an idea and then trying to realise it even if there is no infrastructure yet. Thanks to whose madness DiEM25 actually exists, thanks to his patience. And, well, this is Yanis Barufakis, I'm really glad to see you again on the screen. Please, the floor is yours. The madness like the comradeship is utterly shared, as you know, it all began outside the Folk's Pune Theatre during one of our meetings, well before DiEM was a reality, when you and I were sitting in a cafeteria in Berlin opposite the Folk's Pune Theatre and you asked me, I was soon after I had resigned, so what do you want to do next? And I thought, my goodness, what do I want to do next? Getting back into national politics was not very enticing. Why? Because this is one of the themes that has brought us together in DiEM. Nation-state-based politics is simply not fit for purpose. What we do is we set up parties in Norway, in Britain, in Italy, in Greece and so on and make promises we cannot fulfil at the nation-state base. And then even if we get elected, we simply have to eat humble pie and continue to serve the establishment because even if we have the best of intentions, the nation-state is no longer capable of generating the kind of backlash against the oligarchy without frontiers. So I was saying this to you, Sergeko. And I said, well, if I'm honest, what I really want to do is start upon European movement. And of course this was, you know, like saying I want to go to the moon. And you, being even more mad than I am, said, okay, let's do it. And I laughed. And then that night you called me, remember? And you said, I remember that theatre opposite us where we were having coffee. And I booked it for the 9th of February, 2016. We were launching the movement then. That was, you know, three or four months before. And I thought, there's someone who is crazier than I am. And we started sending emails. And, lo and behold, a few months later, together with Rosemary, with Ivana, with all the comrades whom you will be hearing from tonight, we were in that remarkable, remarkable hall, theatre. And we felt what Rosemary described as that energy of another Europe, which was not possible, but it was there. It was inside that theatre. What sets DM apart from other progressives, other movements, is a collection of differences. But what is far more interesting is what brings us together. Because in that theatre that night, there were people from different perspectives, even different ideological points of departure. People with different assessments of where Europe was heading. We were very enthusiastic that we will democratize Europe in order to keep it together. To a large extent we failed. We had Brexit. Look at the fragmentation. Look at what's happening today. We said the European Union will democratize, be democratized, or it will disintegrate. But it's clearly disintegrating. If we were right then, democratization is not taking place. Think of the way in which the President of the European Commission was selected only very recently. Chancellor Merkel and President Macron got together behind closed doors. Merkel said to Macron, if you want me to have your back on any of your ideas, you'll have to accept my failed Minister of Defence to become President of the Commission. They agreed it amongst themselves, and they told everybody else in the European Union Council. They said, yes, what can we say? When France and Germany decide that it's Ursula von der Leyen, they didn't even know who she was, it must be her. And they sent commissioners to Brussels and then Ursula von der Leyen chose the cabinet. And the European Parliament had to say yes, because the European Parliament is like, if I give you a nuclear weapon to go out on the street to defend yourself with, it's useless. Do you press the button if you are mugged? No. So having a nuclear weapon, the nuclear weapon of saying no to the whole of the Commission, that's what the weapon of the European Parliament... In other words, there is no democracy. It's not that there is a democratic deficit in the European Union. This is what we've been saying since, you know, five years ago to this day. It's a democracy-free zone. We have democratic states with no power, and we have an all-powerful democracy-free zone in the middle, which is, of course, the European Union. Where we differ from other movements is that we call a spade a spade. There is no democratic deficit. There is no democracy. Number one. Number two. In spite of that, we're not saying bring the whole thing down. Year zero. Destroy it. No. Transform it. We're not going to be able to reform the European Union through powerful arguments. We've spent the last five years putting together the Green New Deal. It's a magnificent document. Has anyone paid attention? Of course not, because it is not in the interest of the oligarchy it implemented. So it's not the power of persuasion that's going to work inside the corridors of power. It is the power of transformation that can only take place if the movement grows in numbers sufficient to put people in positions not to so much of power but of authority in order to create a revolution within the institutions of the European Union, not to destroy the European Union, but to transform it through conflict, through direct conflict with the technocracy, who are not very good technocrats either. You can see that from the fiasco with vaccination. But whose purpose there is to depoliticize a political process because if you depoliticize a political process, which is what has been happening in the European Union, effectively we keep the demos out of the democracy. And that's what the special nature of DM is. We are strongly Europeanists. We're not about exiting. You know, if Volkan Schäuble or Angela Merkel or, you know, the President Macron, if they want to exit, they can exit. We're not going anywhere. We're going to be at the heart of Europe. We're going to take the terrible institutions that we have. We're going to transform them. And of course, we are only going to do this through popular support, through spreading the word. We started five years ago. How well did we do? Well, you know, it depends on your perspective. Some will say, with good reason, that we failed to elect MEPs and that we don't have millions in our ranks. A different perspective, the half-full perspective, to say that, you know, after five years with no money, just with little contributions from our members, with forces of authoritarianism coalescing around us from the fascist right to the liberal establishment, the so-called illiberal establishment, even within the so-called progressives who are simply interested in maintaining and reproducing the bureaucratic machinery, political party machinery that they have. You know, we have 130,000 people in the ranks of DiEM25. We got 1.5 million votes in the European Parliament elections. I'm not satisfied. We are not satisfied. But we exist. We have a transnational movement where, you know, we're not a federation of national political parties. We are the first in the history of humanity, transnational, solid, unitary movement where we all make decisions. You know, when the Greek political party of DiEM25, Meta25 puts forward its manifesto, the Brits, the French, the Portuguese, the, you know, the Turks who are members of DiEM25 vote for it and they are consulted for it. That has never happened before. And we are, I think we should be intensely proud of this. And I'll finish off with my favorite story from the folks born five years ago. Because it is a story which captures the capacity of DiEM25 to unite and the beauty of DiEM25 and the importance and pertinence of DiEM25, which is independent of how many votes go to the European Parliament elections, how many members of Parliament are elected and so on. Not that these are not important things. And here's the story. At the end of that night, long night, during the entire time period to organize this thing, Strajka and I were walking out of the auditorium, going to the bar, which is something we can't do tonight, but we hope to make amends sometime very soon. We were walking to the bar and we came across a German activist with a long tradition of struggles, intercellation as well, somebody who has been there. He's been through the various ropes of political agitation, disappointments, struggles and so on. And Strajka and I were very enthusiastic and we said, so what did you think of it? What did you think of the launch of DiEM25? He looked very glum. He said, you'll fail. And Strajka, who is younger than me and more enthusiastic and energetic, got pissed off with him and said, if you think we're going to fail, why are you here? And the response will stay with me till my last breath. He said, because I wanted to be with the people with whom together we will have to pick up the pieces once this Europe collapses. So whether Europe collapses or not, DiEM25 is the best hope we have as Europeans to minimize unnecessary pain and to organize progressives with a very clear and very rational and feasible and realistic Green New Deal for Europe, while at the same time maintaining the utopian vision of a post-capitalist Europe, a Europe in which democracy is not just a word, it is the practice of giving power to everyone, especially to the powerless. So Carpe DiEM, I don't have a glass. I'll get one later. Yeah, I have to unmute myself. Thanks a lot, Yanis, for reminding me of some of these stories. I'm sure we could share many others. But we have a big event coming now, which is not just finding a glass, but if you have a glass, find a glass, a popcorn. A premiere of a very special documentary is just about to start. You can find the link in the chat or in the description of the live stream, of the live stream. It's a premiere about our Greek political party, Mera25, about not just another political party, which I think is another success of DiEM25, what we succeeded to create in these dialectics of horizontality and the verticality in the last years. So enjoy the premiere of the movie. You can find the link, as I said, in the chat or in the description of the live stream. After that, at 10 o'clock, we are having a quite informal, interactive online party with DiEM members. You can also find information on our social media and I hope many members will join us. Happy birthday, Carpe DiEM. We are here. See you in five years. Good evening, everyone. Hello from David and I. Welcome back to the second and last part of the DiEM25 birthday celebration. We're celebrating DiEM in Europe and hopefully the half-decade, or many half-decades to follow. The two of us were the two chaps who went set off to Greece to go and meet again, basically some of the people, the incredible human beings and I think those of you who watch the documentary with us now probably agree that they operate incredible people who DiEM25 attracted to our movement in Greece and who we had met when we had been there in 2018 and 2019 as part of the European and then the national elections in the country and we saw the work that they did. So earlier or late in September 2020 we thought we might as well go back and see how they're faring and essentially the documentary you just saw was the result of that. This theme of we first start cooking and the recipe follows. It's clearly something that's at the very root of the DiEM experience. We weren't sure what we were making until we had the footage. I'm sure David will tell you more. There are hours and hours of incredible stories and then out of that you need to tell this story and we realized that actually the story that we could tell through the content that these people gave us was in fact the story of DiEM if you like as seen from the perspective of our members in Greece but it's a pan-European story and that came through from everything that they told us. I think it might be good if I give you the floor David to talk a bit more about I mean I'm half Greek so it's pretty normal that I was in Greece but you're Portuguese and you were there not just now for this documentary but you were also there at the elections. So it'd be interesting maybe for you to tell us a bit more about what on earth was a Portuguese person doing there and this seemingly quite Greek struggle. Thanks Eric. Hi everybody, thanks for watching and I hope you've managed to watch the documentary if not you can find it on our YouTube channel. That's a good question Eric because actually a lot of the times when we were travelling around Greece for the European and national elections people kept asking me why are you in Greece? Why are you campaigning here in this country? Why are you not campaigning in Portugal or elsewhere? My answer to that question was always when I was back in 2015 when my own government was implementing some brutal austerity measures at that moment in time I felt more Greek than I felt Portuguese because at long last there was a political party that was providing some source of hope of course that hope was then torn apart in many ways but there was one person as well who came together with Shileticor who didn't give up on that hope and who wanted to make people still believe that there is a way to challenge this decrepit system that is really not interested in what's good for people but on what's interesting and what's good for big corporations and private interests so we wanted to challenge that and so when people ask me the question what were you doing in Greece campaigning for the elections it was a really great opportunity to go on the ground and we were making it happen we were really trying their very best and of course as you well know since we met in Brussels a year later when DiEM was created at that time we kind of felt a little bit intellectually lobotomized by the Brussels establishment and everything that encompasses it we really felt like and by the way for those of you watching I don't know if you know but the lobotomy was invented by a Portuguese scientist back in the day but this is a little bit irrelevant given that I'm Portuguese I felt like I needed to say that and so coming to Brussels you know having DiEM as a transnational movement that it doesn't matter where you live you can live in Portugal Poland, Spain, Greece you know we're all fighting for what's good for humanity what's good for the majority against the interests of the very few which unfortunately are the ones that are ruling the world at the moment and we wanted to of course go to Greece and meet some of the people who were participating and to help to make this happen because of course it wasn't just this group of people there was hundreds of thousands of people all over Europe and the world that helped DiEM become what it is today and I think this film just to finalize really is a dedication not only to the people we interviewed but also to the to the many others countless human beings out there that you know are fighting the good fight and you know trying to make a difference for people on the ground because you know there's so many issues in voluntary migration, economic woes and so on that really need to be addressed and you know we need to consider that to talk to people out there in the real world who have very important and very you know incredible needs that sadly many many of them cannot sustain you know because of the fact that they don't have jobs and so on and so forth so that's it for me just a little introduction and yeah back to you Eric Cheers mate well yeah it's true and for some people they will you know because we celebrate Meta 25 so much in this video and it might feel a bit exaggerated you know it's a political party that got 3% of the elections got elected to parliament but at the end of the day it got 3% you know it's when you look at it with a bit of distance it's not in government and to celebrate it so much it might feel a bit out of place but you know in the context that we tried to set in this documentary to tell that story of it's not just the fact that DM managed to elect a political party it's the fact that in this Greece in the state that the country is in right now with a kind of levels of political despair and of cynicism that rightfully for many people dominate the political scene a political party that is all about hope that is all about change and is headed by one of the people that was involved so heavily in the previous sort of attempt to break this the bondage that landed Greece in the situation that it's in it managed to achieve that with very limited resources and so on you know the story says that and finally you know the title of the documentary and we were really struggling with this trying to cover up with we're struggling with everything to be honest with you because we're utter amateurs very sleepless nights but also even the title was a challenge and we ended up with not just another party and a bit of DM trivia for those of you watching the document DM 25 didn't have electoral wings to begin with right but he decided later on to do so and the political document that was debated and voted on by the DM membership to establish these electoral wings was called not just another political party and it is on that sort of promise if you like both to fellow DMS but to Europeans everywhere and to people of the world that when DM 25 does electoral politics it doesn't just do electoral politics the way everybody else does and that is also what is so exceptional about the fact that it isn't just another political party it is a new breed it is a living experiment of what democracy could be you know this connection of the horizontality of a political movement given a weapon, given a spear with which to reach outputs the verticality that we keep talking about in more intellectual terms and that's also part of what this movement is about but at the end of the day and the party but at the end of the day what I think the film was really about and we realized that as we were making it and definitely as we were producing it is about people it's about the fact that it's it's people that make anything happen or not happen and what we really wanted to do is tell the story of the people behind DM 25 because like Christina says it so often reduced the effort that we all make is reduced to you know Yannis Varoufakis' party and that's something that I know Yannis doesn't like and I know it's something that also hurts us who spend so much time to make all of these things happen so without further ado I think it's time we invited our special guests for this evening we have some people who featured in the documentary with us here to have a bit of a chat for the next 40 minutes or so absolutely, I'll let them in let them in, no no please here we are here they are hi everybody hello nice to see you all I feel like I've been seeing you every day for the past few months and in a way that's kind of true I guess as we were editing this documentary but it's really lovely to talk with you all of you it's like a bit of a reunion for all of us first of all I'd like to ask you all to mute yourselves when you're not talking to make sure we don't have any background noise because that happens sometimes and secondly to just jump right into the conversation those of you who are watching us if you have any questions for any of the people here we have Jochen Schult who didn't feature in a speaking part in the documentary but he was our assistant producer he was with us essentially for the whole trip in the car helping us with the research helping us with the planning and Jochen is also the chap with whom I've shared a car and very often a bed for months at an end when we're on campaign for Mera and for DM we have Thomas Agrafiotis who is originally from Cosani in northern Greece but he lives in Patra in the south he's a primary school teacher and also a shadow puppet theater, Karagiosis as we call it in Greece player we have Christina who is art historian and a researcher in Thessaloniki who's also lived many years in Barcelona like we saw and then we also have Cristiana who is also a primary school teacher and among other things also teaches refugee children as we saw in the documentary so hi everybody if you have any questions for them those of you who are watching us please send us them in the chat and we will try and show them into our schedule so what I'd like to do is maybe ask one of you a question and then you can answer it and then if others would like to jump in with the conversation please do so but because there's a few of us let's try and do it like that starting maybe with Cristina if that's okay with you Cristina so you said that Meta25 keeps being represented as the Barofakis party you said that in the documentary it's indeed something that also happens to DM25 because Yanis has a big profile and if 10 of us all tweet the same thing it's only one tweet that gets picked up by the media obviously that's Yanis's tweet de facto is something that is enforced on us in many ways Yanis's primacy tell us a bit more about that experience both in DM and in Meta from your perspective what it means is it only a bad thing, is it also a good thing and if there's anything if you think that we can do to sort of work on this point you'll have to unmute yourself again I made you mute yourself so you'll have to undo the damage okay so of course it's a positive thing because you get a lot of media coverage at least on the European level because on the Greek level they more focused on lifestyle and not on politics but I think that it's also important to present ourselves as what we already are a grassroots party and I hope that if we continue what we are already doing then we're currently working on three levels as I see it and so this is how we're going to make it happen sooner or later first of all we have as Mera25 we have a very strong presence in the city streets we are actively engaged in the local activists movement in each city because each Greek city has its own particular problems and then we have a very strong presence in the parliament of course we have legislation proposals and frequent interventions and I see that more and more our representatives are being presented in the media with interviews and so on with their ideas and of course it's very important that we have a strong presence in online media I like our presence so far because we put our ideas forward but we also have this humorous tone when it's possible I don't know just a simple example would be our campaign for a Golden Dawn member who is running away from the police even though he has been condemned and they tweet every day funny things to remind people of the issue so I think this is how we're going to achieve it first by being present on the streets in the parliament and also trying to become viral in online media does anyone else want to jump in on this topic while we're at it or shall we move on like we said it's something I think Kristina hit all the notes we can move on to the next topic I'm keenly aware of the time and I can see already questions coming in so I'll keep up the pace for now so let's go from up to you if that's alright so in the documentary you mentioned that Meta 25 isn't just another party that was made before all of you came why certain element of why that is and also that there is a European dimension to what Meta 25 is and also to what it achieved by being elected in sort of can you tell us a bit more about that and what that means to you the fact that Meta is different in one ways is it different in what ways is it more European than other political parties thank you very much generally the parties in Greece are in parties what I mean nowadays the parties in Greece are parties with no something different than the usual Greek parties from 19th century and 20th century 19th 19th and 20th century there are parties for example in 19th century from people who prefer the specific country for example the people who prefer the English who prefer England there were the English party and the people who prefer the Russia they made the Russian party parties with no something different than something real European the Greek parties generally were parties from politicians who were strong politicians and that parties have taken the names for him for example parties from King, parties from from there were parties with no European with no European politics there were parties that they have a problem and that problem is a word of Greek language and that word is Pallochomatismos so there are parties with no real new and real European politics what I mean I don't know if you remember that when we we are all together in Patras in the Star Cinema David and Eric and Johan remember that we talk about the film of Gavras Adults in the Room that is based on the Varoufakis book Adults in the Room and the Greek political parties in 19th and 20th century are summarized in a few words of this movie do you remember that Janis Varoufakis the actor Lulis I remember said Wolfgang for me would you sign this MOU and Wolfgang answers as a patriot no we have a question and we have an answer that question doesn't answer are the basic I mean is it Europe for us no I think that Merakos Peder is not a common party it's something different it's a part of European party it's a part of it's a part of European party with European perspective and Merakos Peder Merak 25 is not a copy of a DM in Greece it's a party, it's a part of this party something real European something which starts in Europe it's not only Greece but it's not only Greek it's European it's a part that's the first time I see it it's a real part of European which tries to change not only Greece but he tries to change all over the Europe not only Europe but Greece too something common something whole something which not only Greece and which not only Europe in Greece are many different are different are not so healthy as Merakos Peder as DM generally I think that it's a difficult topic but I think that you understand what I mean yeah I mean it's impossible to expand in a short period of time it's very difficult to expand even in a long period of time but you hit many of those things I also very keenly remember the story from when we met and we had a coffee together before the interviews and you told us how many times you also watched that film and how much it meant to you and I'll come back to this because there's a topic about culture that I think we should also look a bit more into in our discussion so let's put a pin on that one and we'll get back to it Christiana I'll come to you really quickly because Thomas was talking about how Merakos 25 is quite different it's a different party it comes from a different sort of political tradition and culture if you like in the way that is run and the way that it's organized and so on but it also in your case being from Ceres which is a traditionally conservative stronghold for the new democracy party it must have been especially difficult for you to try and campaign there for Merakos 25 in that context not just because it's a sort of progressive party it's a left green party in a conservative context but it's also it's new it's a new thing and we talked about the context in Greece politically right now it's not very receptive tell us a bit more about that experience of trying to push Merakos in Ceres you'll have to unmute yourself as well remember Good evening everyone well definitely it was not an easy thing to do here in Ceres but we try to persuade young people to vote it was obvious that people who vote the unknown parties would come to vote in any case it is a fact that somebody doesn't vote he leaves other people to decide for him at Ceres the situation was a little bit more difficult but we try to focus on the young people and we did it exactly the history sort of the rest is history as they say and one of the other things that you say in the documentary that's quite striking is that you have a job in Ceres you're not unemployed but even for you the future is very uncertain you don't know what the future holds and of course in the meantime we've also had this incredible unprecedented pandemic that has come to exacerbate a lot of the issues even further tell us a bit what happened in the last 6 months how is the situation in Greece is still as uncertain for you what are your thoughts now? firstly I have to say that I'm not a permanent teacher I am actually unemployed for at least 3 months every year now the last 6 months were really difficult for my country and at present it's even more difficult since the Prime Minister has just announced 3 more weeks of Catholic lockdown in Ceres and in our local community we have faced a very hard situation and we have lost so far 300 coal citizens because of Covid-19 specifically the whole situation was extremely hard here in Ceres in the middle of November we actually believe that if this danger is limited in the future we hope that we will feel better psychologically socially and financially of course thank you very much Cristiana to prove our hopes it's I've been so I'll jump to you now Jochen, that's right with you in the commentary Cristina mentions talking to me in that case but you were sitting right next to me at the time when we were doing the interview she said that the race for us was even longer and she was referring to the fact that you and I we went around Greece and we met getting local groups going and running to help promote the electoral struggle Do you have any highlights from that year? Yes many highlights I would say and I think first of all we have to consider what also has been said before we were a bunch of people who had no experience with politics at all I personally haven't been involved in politics ever before where I joined game 25 and we were trying to build the game 25 in its political way we tried we traveled for more than 10,000 km all through Greece by car by ferry boats, by plane and we met people who were sort of waiting for a sign of hope they were so disappointed I mean whoever had been interested before in the political situation in Greece will know that in 2015 when Janus was still the Minister of Finance they had a voting of 62.5% of the Greek people for and now to the European politics and with the Syriza party but they capitulated as we said as we say now and I want to say the people were so disappointed in politics that even our members who were in the first place were not very much interested in politics anymore because of this disappointment and when they realized that we were sort of trying to form a party they were very very hesitant to join to come to the meetings first of all and then to even take part in the organization we were sort of forming so we also had to do some things to persuade them that we are doing the right thing that we can really change things if we give it a try and then we what we usually did was when we had a sort of organized a meeting was presenting our point of view according the European policy of course but also the Greek policy and there we had this in all these different areas they all have different references and I remember one instant where we were I think it was Agarino that we had gathered I don't know about ten people there and yes we had always tried to inform the press and some people would write about us and so on because the established media either write in the newspapers or show us on TV or so and then there was that old man he was a little bit older than me but he came to attend our presentation of the program and in a break we had a cigarette together outside and he told me it's okay I like your ideas and everything tell me what are you going to do for people like me I mean I left my olives died me from the olive field and he showed me his hands and there were hands of a farmer doing hard work I want to know what the future has to offer for me what can you do for us so I really I mean we did not have anything to tell them we were just trying to convince them that they can't go on as it was going on all these years and so by now I believe that even this man has as a sort of picture that male 25 is trying to find answers to many many questions because they all come from the different areas where we had been meeting our members and forming groups and they now collect these groups are working they're organized and they propose for every area of Greece what has to be done to make the situation change and make it better another instance Johan I'll come back to your second instance just because I know some of our panelists need to leave soon so I'd like to give them the floor before they have to leave us also apologies to those of you watching I have now been reduced to a disembodied voice because I'm back in Greece and I do love this country and I do miss it but the internet connection quality is one of the things that I do not miss from the Greek experience but there you are there you have it apologies for this Christina we'll go back to you because you said in the documentary that you were 6-7 months pregnant when you ran and that means that now you have a little toddler running around and that toddler needs to go to bed Yes and he's way past his bedtime I'm afraid It's becoming crazier We'll put you out of your misery then by asking you another question and then you're free to leave so in the documentary one of the things you talk about is that you're quite positive about your experience of being a woman in Meta25 and DM25 that particular element of the experience I'm wondering as you're sitting in the panel of four dudes into women if that's something you still feel even under these circumstances as well with the gender Yes I think that I'm sorry I mentioned this going again Yes I feel very sorry about it My internet just went again There you go Well I wouldn't have been engaged otherwise It's very important for me I feel that I am a feminist activist and even though I have studied gender equality for years and I have been participating in different kind of activist actions I was surprised to see how we could make equality happen in such a short time within the Meta25 party just by following basic rules of representation and respect and this is how we got to be the only party with the 50-50 women and men in our representatives in the parliament and within the party and within the organs that take the decisions in the Meta25 And I think that especially today Greece during the past few weeks has been leaving its Me Too moment So it is very important to highlight our feminist character and to keep showing our support to the idea of gender equality as we have been doing so far Yes Thank you very much Cristina Like I said if you need to leave at any point now, thank you so much for being here in the first place I know it's not the easiest thing to do Well thank you I have my second job now Well you've done your first one very well so thank you for that and we'll see you around I will see you on YouTube I will see the rest on YouTube Thank you so much Thanks to all the DMers across Europe Bye bye Bye Cristina And for the sake of all of those of you watching us and out of respect for the experience of watching us Given that my internet is acting up so heavily I'd like to ask you David if you could take over the moderation for the rest 15-20 minutes that we've got left You're still muted mate If you're gonna moderate you need to at least click My internet seems to be pretty stable here in Brussels so I'll take over no problem since you're having some problems over there Well let's go over now to Thomas You're a shadow puppet player we talked a little bit about I hope I didn't butcher the Greek there Can you tell us a little bit about what the state of culture is like in Greece these days Thank you I want to talk firstly about my art because people don't know what shadow theater is so I have to say that the modern Greek shadow shadow theater is a unique division in the international shadow theater to therefore approach the concept and the philosophy of this art of shadow theater I mean we must consider the following A the key reference point to shadow theater is the shadow generated by light on the touch surface of flat fabric B, the creation of shadows is also caused by the two dimensional puppets no three, two dimensional puppets moving on the flat fabric and materializing due to the light and see the movement of the puppet transforms into drama into drama through the life giving narration from the puppeter this art my art and generally the culture in Greece I think that nowadays are in danger we can't see that now easily because the money of the Greek government help a little now but in the future all the arts in Greece and especially arts like the shadow theater traditional arts possibly must have special treatment and I mean that Europe too and all the governments and DM of course and Mera25 of course must protect these traditional arts all the arts of course but especially traditional arts fighting out their common characteristic the common art the common artistic characteristic that will connect all Europeans together for example the example of the shadow theater shadow theater can be the art which will unite Greek and Turkish people because it's something common in their heritage in their past I remind that there is a special common heritage of Greek shadow theater in Patras and Turkish shadow theater in Bulsa art can unite people of Greece and Turkey and that will help our art shadow theater and generally all the traditional arts all the arts we refer to cinema later and to not be in danger due to the crisis of covid to be saved from the crisis of covid and let me to see you what is a two-dimensional puppet because there is no simple puppet as every people know it's two-dimensional not three, two-dimensional that's correct you all the central hero of Greek puppet theater shadow Greek puppet theater a poor man a very poor man like Charlie Chaplin like Charleau with no shoes if I can see it yes no shoes characters have no shoes have filthy old-fashioned clothes and he's always poor central hero of Greek shadow theater it's like it's like Charleau he's like Charlie Chaplin and always Charleau have a common the governments thank you Tomas now it's I remember our vivid conversations in Patra when we were there and you're totally right that especially in the kind of world that we have today that doesn't seem to put value on things which actually have value on things which don't have much value at all you know it's very very important for a lot of just DM but Meta and everybody else really to properly fund the art, the culture sector because without it there's a lot that gets lost and a lot of important values and humanity like a common humanity in a way that gets lost as a result of that because art can speak to people across the world in so many different ways and that's what I think is about the carygiosis and please keep doing what you're doing I hope you'll manage certainly hope you'll manage Jochen let's just go over to you a bit like me when I started with Eric talking earlier I was explaining that I'm from Portugal, I was in Greece I was campaigning over there to try and get DM and Meta into Parliament whatever little I managed to contribute to it helped to achieve that and the question goes to you as well because we were on the road together for many of these weeks and you know you were German you were living in Greece for many years fighting for a pan-European movement like DM and obviously Meta as well our party in Greece what made you want to get involved in the first place was it a bit like me or did you have other reasons tell us a bit about that because I'm really curious well unfortunately it wasn't like you because you are doing now what you studied I mean you are putting into practice all the theories you brought with you from the university I was never politically involved before I became a member of DM35 in 2017 in the beginning of 2017 and I had been a teacher for German through all the years more than 35 years in Greece and wasn't politically involved at all I was politically interested I used to be a spokesman for the teachers of the Goethe institute in Athens for about 10 years but that was it and yeah when I came to Greece I would always sort of hope there would be a change towards the European standards and of course the German standards because when I left Germany I was 27 years old so I sort of had a certain picture of how things should function how the states should function how the public life and the public servants first of all and I it was very very difficult for me being a foreigner there starting my own business and I had my own institute for languages afterwards so I went through all these difficulties and yeah, managed alright I survived until 2016 and there the financial crisis hit my institute very hard and I had to leave and apply for a pension which is a Greek pension of course because most of the years I had been living in Greece and when I found out that it was already cut and shortened six times before I even got it I couldn't believe it and so I went deeper into it and I wanted to find out who's responsible for something like this a sacred thing like a pension and using the money you have all these years paid into the pensions and yeah, I found out it is the policy of the European Union it is also mainly on the German politicians and that had as a result that I first of all got angry and then I thought the second thought was what can I do about it of course I couldn't change the things with my pension but I thought my own children I'm the father of four children and I as a teacher I used to have all these young people starting from 10 years old until grownups and I felt sorry for them and the last years working I was preparing grownups to go to Germany, Switzerland or Austria because they couldn't make it any longer in Greece and I couldn't find adequate job to their studies and then yeah, when I found out about DM I thought this is it I was electrified by the program of DM and the direct democracy on the European level and I thought this is the only way to come out of this misery that we unite on the European level at least and practice democracy and change things not being separated as a state with a national policy and just voting for whatever others decide but play an active role in the European policy and make it a policy for the well-being of the people and not for the big companies and yeah I never regret that I did that and I met so many comrades so many good people that I can say now it has been an adventure ever since very, very pleasant adventure for me and I will go on fighting and I will go on and supporting Mera and DM of course and I hope that the next 5 years will bring us very close if not to the goal we have set democratize Europe and democratize the European Union thank you Jorgen it's amazing right how we all have different experiences we come from different countries but at the heart of it is the human need I would argue for to be able to have some influence of your own life and not to be continuously damaged or hurt by policies which are not contributing to the well-being of human beings but to something else and I think the fact that we all encounter ourselves in DM and also in Mera it's a testament to the fact that there's so much more that unites us than divides us that it's very important to come together first of all to come together around the common ideas and then of course develop from there in terms of self-organization and so and of course also being part of political movements and becoming politically engaged trying to make a difference because I think in the end everybody deep down regardless of what area of work they might be involved in we all have a need for meaning we want to contribute to something and I think it's been really amazing for us to get to know all of you and as well you, Johan personally I'm very proud about that and I know the time is coming to an end so we'll have to start wrapping up here I will give her over the word to Eric just for some closing remarks and I would like also to say a couple of things at the end as well. Eric, over to you. Thank you very much David I don't have any closing remarks as such other than to apologize again for my awful internet connection I was thinking that maybe we can all very briefly say just a couple of things or not a couple of things but maybe all of us we can go around and say briefly if people watched this documentary and were inspired by it and felt like there's something that I could do you know if we have one piece of advice for them what would that piece of advice be and I can start with that because and that's a piece of advice that comes from having been there for that absolutely mad year that Jochen was talking about but also from having spoken with all of you for this documentary and the interviews that we had and I feel like the main driving force for change is just not being not looking at the statistics not looking at your chances of success but focusing on what you feel is right and what you feel is wrong and if you spend your time fighting in favor of what you think is right and against what you think is wrong then that time is not wasted even if you don't in the traditional sense agree one amazing quote from the documentary that didn't make it the final cut because we had to cut so much was from Anna who said that even if we plant a seed in future generations reap the benefits from what we did today that is a huge achievement of itself but when you don't even try when you don't even give it a shot because it feels so impossible then you don't even attempt the planting of the seed you know just because you feel like the plant would never have any chance of growing at all and I think if there's one thing about politics it's that you never know what's going to happen tomorrow you never know how the conditions will change you never know what opportunities might come your way and the only way for you to be to have a chance at those opportunities is for you to be present and not to reckon what your chances are and just doing it because you believe in it so that would be my sort of mad like we said earlier in the Srećko and Jani said earlier the madness of DM is not reckoning at what our chances are but focusing on what we think is right and staying in the game being present so that if things change if the opportunity arises we're there to grasp it so that would be my piece of advice for anybody who felt inspired to go out and do it and not to worry too much about the chances of success because that's what in the end helped us with Mera to get elected because if we had looked at what our chances were we never would have set out in the first place so that's my piece of advice and I'd like to thank everyone who's been watching us and to ask them to join us in dreaming and imagining all the amazing things that we will do in the next five years of DM 25 and the five years after that Thanks Eric, no that's a better way to wrap it up and I'll pass it over to Cristiana what would you say, what would you be your piece of advice? Well as you said Eric said before I'm from Serdes which is the north the city of Greece so as a message I would like to say that each of us who lives in his hometown has the obligation it's like an obligation to strive for his own town it's maybe difficult for each one to accomplish this but if we're all united and active citizens we can make a difference and I really believe that we can make it Thanks Cristiana that's a very lovely no that's a very lovely way to put it I completely agree let's go over to Thomas now what would be your piece of advice, I'm curious my advice something simple be happy in Greek be happy that's a good way as well of course we should all try and be happy but satisfied, I prefer the word satisfied over happiness but that's my own self my own problem Jochen what would be your piece of advice to people who watch the documentary who perhaps are not engaged politically yet maybe they are members of DM or maybe they are not members of DM yet what would be your message to them tell us well I don't have to say much to the people who are already members of DM or Mera but anyone else if anyone else is watching and is not a member I would just give the advice visit our internet site have a look at what we are doing it's all there, it's all written there it's all written down and visit us on the social media channels we have nice videos to watch and yes get involved don't be passive don't sit back on your couch and just watch and listen to things but get involved and be active be a part of it we have a lot of campaigns going on right now you can be a member of a small group in your area and you can make proposals those people we visited then would never believe that it would come so far that they can now propose what they think has to be done to make things better in their area and you will be surprised that there will be many people who think the same way you do and have the same problems and have the will to do something about it and you can be part of it do it and you will change your life and the life of your children and grandchildren thanks Joachim for that very inspiring note I completely agree as well with you if anybody is watching check out the description of the video there's a link where you can sign up to become a member of DM there's also a link where you can donate so that we can continue in our efforts to make a member donations individual small membership fees so if you can contribute as well that would go a long way to help us to transform Europe, transform the world and bring democracy, real democracy not this kind of fantasy of democracy this illusion of democracy that we are experiencing and which very few people are talking about and I'm very happy that we are all here and many thousands of other people activists out there in the real world making a lot of noise about it and the fundamental aspect of our lives which we've kind of in some way lost control over that political the system that we happen to live in like I said at the very beginning doesn't seem to care so much about the interest of ordinary people and it is the interest of ordinary people that we are fighting for and it's the interest of the majority of people on earth regardless of their sex background ethnicity we need to fight for a common humanity and just to end it on a more positive note what I would say is I think in alignment with what all of you have already said which is that never let anybody tell you that something is impossible never allow that to happen because the moment that somebody tells you that something is possible impossible our instant reaction should be to challenge that notion that there is an impossibility there is such a thing as an impossibility we have to keep fighting for the things as Eric said earlier we would have never set out on this journey of trying to run for elections and to create DM if we were worried about the chances of succeeding you can only succeed if you try and as Samuel Beckett said fail, what was it I even forgot, fail hard, fail better I messed it up I messed up the quote fail again, fail again, fail better but we should fail better, we should fail less that's the message that I was trying to and by contributing and coming together I think that's what we will in the end achieve so that's it for me I don't know Eric if you have any last words or anybody else here I have a far less posh Greek tavernau glass wine too toast to the health of our movement and to all of our amazing members and to all of you who were with us here from MassChristina Jochen who joined us and to the next 5 years to the next 5 years bye everyone