 Hey everybody, sorry we're running just a few minutes behind. We are desperately dry in Colorado and there's crazy wildflowers everywhere. So wildfires everywhere. So I just got caught in a torrential downpour and hail storm on my way home. So that's why I'm late. But I'm so happy because our ground and earth is getting watered, at least in my little area here near Boulder. So I was really grateful even though I maybe look like a drowned rat just a little bit. But here we are with Dr. Lundquist, one of my just most favorite people in the world. Amazing colleague and friend and just have such respect for him in the field. He's in California. I'll get his official bio in just a minute and introduce him. But before we do just a little background, you guys know where to find me on the website, jillcarnahan.com. All kinds of free blogs and resources are there for you. And then if you need any products, Dr. Jill health.com is my retail store. And then you can find this episode and all of the 60 plus other episodes with great professionals and leaders and experts at my YouTube channel, which is just under my name. So please go subscribe, enjoy those there and just leave your feedback for us. Today, we're talking about, of course, one of my favorite topics, which is Sears chronic inflammatory response syndrome, which was officially coined by Dr. Shoemaker. We will talk a little bit about that. If you're not new to my stuff, you've heard that term, probably most of you listening have some understanding. But if you don't, don't worry, we'll explain a little bit about what that is and how it relates to immune resilience. But today I've got guest Dr. Eric Lundquist. And like I said, we've known each other in this field for probably a decade or more. And I really always love his perspective because he, like me, deals with complex chronic illness. And as such, we've had to go really deep with infections and toxic load and all these things. I'm going to read his bio and then we'll introduce him and ask him to tell us about his background. Dr. Lundquist has a special interest in integrative and holistic medicine. He's currently the founder and medical director of the Center for Integrated, is it Temecula? Temecula. Thank you, Center for Integrative Medicine and member of the Holistic Medical Association, as well as Institute of Functional Medicine. He does endocrine disorders, especially thyroid, adrenal dysfunction, chronic fatigue, migraine headaches, cardiometabolic disease and chronic pain. And like me, he does all these complex chronic conditions. He has so many degrees, I won't read them all, but duly board certified in family medicine and subspecialized in American Board of Integrative Medicine and the Integrative Holistic Medical Boards as well. Married with three children, loves inspiring his patients to take control of their health and combat dis-ease. He enjoys lecturing to his peers and he's one of those people I always enjoy listening to when we're in the lecture circuit. Last year with COVID, we both had a little bit of a break, but I'm sure you'll hear him speak and he's well respected in his field. Dr. Lundquist, thank you so much for joining us today. No, you're so welcome. It's always a pleasure to hang out with you, Jill, and have exciting and informative conversations. Yeah, I know I love that many people probably know if they see you or know your clinic, but you really bring the heart to medicine and the mind, body, spirit as well. And I know we connect on those levels too, because we know that healing is not just the physical body, but the emotional, spiritual, mental, all of these things kind of play. And I love that you bring that to your patients as well and you live it too. So it's always inspiring to me to see a fellow colleague who really like tries to integrate that. And honestly, I've seen in the probably more in the past five years or three years, more than ever, I think it's so important for the emotional and spiritual healing of our patients that we I always feel like I'm just a container, like I don't want to bring my perspective necessarily, but I want to make a place that's safe for them to explore. And again, I know that you kind of bring that to tell us a little bit about how did you get into integrative functional medicine, and then more recently your journey into where you're at now. Sure, I'd be happy to. But before I before I get there, I just, you know, to piggyback on your your thought there, I think the word resiliency is really popping up all over, right? We're seeing it now, across the integrated functional medicine world. And resiliency, I think has its base roots in spirituality, right? I mean, there's there's a it's like a fortitude, you know, you're resilient to something things bounce off of you, there's a shield that that's, you know, there's a physical resiliency, but but it's that spiritual and emotional resiliency that really sets us up for success. And that's what we're all striving for. And I see, you know, I you've seen and this is what we were talking about, right? In the last three years, the the level of resiliency in our population in general has taken a huge hit. There's a big deficit in our ability to be resilient to whatever life is throwing at us, particularly from an, you know, infectious immune standpoint. So we'll get into that, I know a little bit later. But so my journey, you know, is a little atypical for most integrative in functional medicine doctors in that, you know, a lot of our colleagues get into it because something happens to them either in medical school or to their family. And there's no good answers in conventional medicine. And so they they start looking for answers and find that the answers are really an integrative and functional medicine. I was, I kind of got started early in that my undergraduate degree besides I had a double major in biology and kinesiology, but we had a couple of professors there in LA at Occidental College who focused on nutrition and lifestyle and the impact that that had on our physiology, you know, kinesiology is a study of human performance. And so I think, you know, Rob Benakdar and so Robin went to undergraduate school together, we both had this foundational training in our undergraduate. And when I was in the Navy finishing my family medicine residency, he I got we had our 10 year reunion and he was down at the Center for Integrative Medicine at SCRS. And so I connected went down spent a rotation with him and really that's where it started to turn. And I started incorporating more and more. When I got out of the Navy did some family practice lifestyle medicine for a little while, but it became clear that if I really wanted to practice, I needed to open my own center. So almost seven years ago, next month, there'll be seven years that we opened the Temecula Center for Integrative Medicine. Wow. And so that's really kind of been my journey towards integrative and functional medicine. But when it comes to lime and mold, that's where it starts to get personal, which you have your own amazing personal journey with that. But in my case, my wife and I were visiting Sedona about four years ago. Now it'd be four years in the fall. And we were hiking. She came home six weeks later and her left knee kind of blew up. And I thought it was kind of weird. Maybe it was from plank tennis. I don't know. And so I was just still kind of growing in my integrative and functional medicine, but I done a lot of steroid injections. So I drained it, put a steroid in there and thought, okay, here we go. Six weeks later, the other knee blows up. And so now I'm starting to suspicious. Something's weird. This is not right. So I test her. She got some white blood cells. It looks like it could be early lupus, center to rheumatology. They think, yeah, maybe it's seronegative early lupus. So they wanted to start her on some disease modifying drugs. She's like, no, I think I can do this naturally. So we start modifying her nutrition using some anti-inflammatories and some specialized resolving mediators. And she kind of gets by for a little while. But then about a year later, she starts to decompensate with her fatigue and the joint pain is moving. Her elbow then starts to swell and it was just migratory. And I'm still not cluing in that this possibly could be Lyme. I'm still thinking this is something autoimmune. So I sent her to an integrative rheumatologist and he tests her for a host of things and one of which was Lyme. And it came back IgM positive. And then at the time I had been stiff arming Lyme disease and mold for a while. Like patients were coming and we were like, no, no, you go see these other guys. We're not dealing with it. We're just, we'll continue with the autoimmune. As you read, I mean thyroid, really where I cut my teeth and integrated medicine. But, you know, we realize this was going to be something of greater significance. So oddly enough, about a year later, I'm starting to feel like I'm not so great. And in my wife is starts bugging me. She didn't know it. I've been reading about how this can be sexually transmitted. I think you should be tested. So sure enough, I get tested and I am positive for Brelia. And she had a bunch of co-infections, which I did not, which then makes me think that it was more likely sexually transmitted than it was a tick-borne illness in my case. I think it was in her case because I didn't have a lot of the co-infections. So now it became really personal. I mean, I was already personal because we were dealing with my wife and trying to get her treated. But now, so I actually had to cut back the number of days I was working. I cut down to part-time. I was working full-time and it was a challenge. And as you know, I mean going through that process of reevaluating and just feeling drained. And I'm sure you had days like this where I literally, it was all I could do to make it through my patient load. And then I would go home and just rest. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't read. I couldn't sign up on charts. I could, I mean it was just like, it was rest until the next day started and then I did that day. And then the whole next three or four days of the weekend was used to get caught up on those three days. And that was my life for probably six months. And then I started to turn a corner with some of the treatments we had already started offering at our clinic through ozone and nutritional support and stem cells. And that for my opinion was really what kind of turned me around and allowed me to get back to work. And I would say I'm probably 95%. It still feels like to me that I'm not at 100%. I don't feel like I have the same kind of energy, the same kind of stamina. But I know if I don't get a good night's sleep, I decomposate very quickly. So now it's compelled me to be more balanced and more aware of my stress and my nutrition and my sleep in ways that I hadn't been so focused on. I could get by with cheating a lot more before than I can. Yes. I love there's so many really important themes for those listening that you brought out and that I really relate to. Number one is resilience that you started out with. Like the key here is I always say if we tested 10,000 people out on the streets for Lyme, we probably find a large percentage actually have positive IgM, IgG, Borrelia and co-infections and they're actually functioning okay. They might not have complaints or they might have big small complaints that aren't totally debilitating. And then so what is the difference between when you manifested when I manifested with Lyme and those symptoms because the immune system is so key here because I feel like there's this play between immune systems should keep old infections that are low virulence like Epstein Bar and Lyme. Those are actually like we take a bowl of virus that'll kill a person in three days. That's a high virulence. Lyme is actually low virulence. It doesn't kill people quickly. It's insidious. It's low grade. Same with Epstein Bar and these other coxsaggy, other viruses we deal with. But what happens is when we have a weakened immune state, which were like you mentioned, we're seeing epidemics of immune weakness now in the entire society and then you throw mold on top of it where there's an exposure that dampens immune response and then this infection pops up. So what you described is kind of you know work like we do. We're working hard. We're throwing in 60, 80 hour weeks, which is kind of our norm and we get by with it until something like this happens. And I feel the other things for the resilience is important. The immune system is important because us overcoming this has been how do we get our immune system resilient? How do we get sleep, exercise, diet? Because I agree with you. I walk a fine tightrope and I've got it all fine tuned so that I can function 95%. But if I don't get those things, if I don't get my Epsom salt bath and my PMF mat and my hydration and my sleep, like I need all those things to function and I can function great. But if I don't, I can crash easily just like you said in our patients as well. So the resilience and then the other thing I heard in there and you didn't mention this word, but I know it's true for both of us. This kind of came as a teacher, right? Like it kind of stinks that we had to have this. But what happened is through our experiences, we had to have, like you, I was like, I don't treat Lyme. This was like a decade ago. Let's send them somewhere else because I knew this was complex. And then we had to deal with the gut microbiome and the effective herbs or antibiotics on the gut. So I kind of was like, no, I'm not going to deal with that until we have ourselves, our patients or loved ones that are dealing with this. And we're like, Oh, gosh, if I want to really be a great physician and help people, I have to really know this and understand it. And don't you feel like Lyme and mold and this chronic infection toxin combination that we're seeing epidemic proportions, there is no more complex medicine than what we do, right? Yeah, I know I couldn't agree with you more. And it's super challenging. And the part of it, I think that makes it most challenging is that there's not one treatment for one person, right? I mean, you can have 10 people come in, have the exact same lab data, similar symptoms. And yet the treatment regimens that each one will need will be different and unique to those individuals. And I think that's that's where it makes it so complex and challenging. It'd be great if I'll, you know, pull out the protocol week to doxy, and they get better. You know, everyone's great with that. I just have an algorithm, boom, boom, boom. It'd be awesome, right? But it's just not, it's not. And like you said, the norm is a little toxin, multiple co-infections. This is not a, that's what's so different from our training with the Occam's razor with one diagnosis. The one diagnosis is the sears, which we're going to talk about in just a minute. But the bigger thing is there are so many levels. And whether it was Dr. Horowitz's MCIDS, whether it's sears from Dr. Shoemaker, whether it's cell danger response from Dr. Navu, all of these are descriptions of the same elephant in the room, which is this complex chronic systemic burden of toxic load infections, everything stacking up. And I've always found relief in that it is helpful to know the infections we're dealing with. But honestly, I can go into a patient and know there's toxic load in infectious burden. And I definitely want to have some, some ideas of what is in that bucket. But I don't have to know every last toxin in the bucket. I just know toxic load, let's do detox, right? Like it's almost freeing in a way, because if we had to know the thousands of toxic exposures and which ones and how much of each that's overwhelming completely. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And both of us actually have given talks recently on toxicity and its impact on the immune system. And I'm curious if you, if you had to give three components, three components that you would say are most critical in helping deal with that immune resiliency? So if we look at our toxic environment, which I think is impacting, because I go back to exactly what you're saying, right? It's not the bug or the virus or the mold that's really the problem. These things have been around for millennia. It's not like all of a sudden somebody dropped a dirty bomb. And now we're being exposed, you know, except for COVID, which is now a novel virus that was created in the lab. I guess we can say that now officially. These things are there, but it's the immune resiliency that has deteriorated so significantly that now we can't deal with them, right? So it's this barrel of toxins that gets to a point and now it's just spilling over, right? So what have you shared in your recent discussions and talks on toxicity and immune resiliency? What are the three things that you typically share as, all right, this is what I would recommend as the key points? Yeah, gosh, I love it. You're going to hear me now, but I'm going to turn it back on you. And then I'm going to ask you the same because, you know, you've heard me say this before and people listening are probably getting tired of this is like, come on, let's get some more complexity. But it's so simple. We have to start with the stuff we, you and I were talking about, which is sleep. You have to get good sleep. It doesn't mean number of hours, although that's part of it. Like what I've found is actually through PMF and some other things that I've done, I can actually get six and a half hours. But if I get three hours of deep or two and a half hours of deep, it's the actual quality, not the quantity. And the study showing you need seven or eight hours is because many people only get 20% deep sleep. So they're getting hour, hour and a half. So they need more volume of sleep to get that percentage. What I found with these kind of bio hacks, like the mat has really helped me on that, what I use is that level one, which is like a human frequency of the earth's like seven or eight Hertz. It's amazing. And all of a sudden in my six hours of sleep, I'm getting two and a half hours of deep, which is almost unheard of. But then I wake up really refreshed. So sleep is critical and the quality of sleep. And if you don't have some sort of device, I have the ORA ring, there's all kinds of things out there that's fit bits. There's yeah, totally, right? And I love this because I can do an intervention like an Epsom salt bath or a mat or I stay out too late and I can see the direct correlation to my sleep. What I found is if I get to bed after midnight or after 11pm, I lose some deep because the deep tends to be focused in the early part of the night. If I don't get my mat on level one for 20 minutes, I tend to not have as much deep. And then if I wake up early, like have an early flight, I have to get up at 4 or 4.30am, I lose the REM. So I'm always trying to kind of balance those. And I notice if I shorten my sleep at night by staying up later, I'm going to lose the deep. Deep is going to be restorative immune like really, really core. So if you have immune dysfunction, infection, toxin, these things, your deep is priority. Now REM is important because REM is going to process memories. It's going to be acquisition of new knowledge, word finding, your ability to focus, concentrate, be creative. So it's really important too. But if you're immune dysfunction infection and you had to choose the deep and I'd love to know if you agree with that. I think the deep is the core for your immune resilience. So that sleep. And what I was going to say is clean air, clean water, clean food. Like that sounds so simple you want to vomit, right? Because you're like, duh. But honestly, like we can't emphasize enough the real basics. So clean air is your air quality 80% of your toxic load is in your air. So having air filtration, having making sure your home doesn't have any mold, BOCs from carpets and formaldehyde, wood flooring, synthetic, you know, vinyl types of products, new home construction materials, all of these are massively contributing to our environmental toxic load. All of these amazingly efficient buildings lead certified, they're great. But guess what? They trap in that air. And so if you don't have circulation of air or your crawl space is circulating air from somewhere that's damp and moldy into your living space, there's tons of things we could talk about. But that air quality people don't think about. And it's absolutely critical. And we saw it in COVID because all of some people were at home in their houses. And if they were moldy or not fully filtrate as far as the air quality, they started getting sick because they're home, they're inside, they're not going outdoors. So air water is just a basic thing that we forget whether it's just drinking enough pure water, or getting electrolytes in your water. If you have mold exposure, you're drinking and you're peeing and you're not staying hydrated, or just the quality of water, which is deteriorating as well. And then clean food and having a diet that's low antigenic, which would be like gluten free dairy, free sugar free at the very minimum, minimal or no alcohol, often will take out soy and corn and peanut and some of the others. And we shouldn't have to do this. These are all normal foods. But what's happened is our gut permeability, our leaky gut, our inflammation has gone so to the extreme that gluten for most people is fairly inflammatory. And I would love to know for you with auto immunity, do you just automatically make sure they're off gluten? Yeah, it becomes, and I think that sometimes there's this misunderstanding or misinterpretation that gluten free diets are just a fad, right? And to some extent they are. I mean anything that can be capitalized and made money is going to become a fad. I think what people, at least my patients don't always understand, and I think some of our colleagues sometimes miss a little bit. Every time we eat food, there's an inflammatory process. So I think sometimes we think, oh, their inflammation is bad. I can't do this because it's going to cause inflammation. No, you know, we eat red meat, we eat gluten, we eat dairy and we eat fiber. All of that's going to create some inflammation in the gut, right? But as I like to say, well, how good is your fire department? Yes. Right? How good, you know, if you can put out the fire, if you can manage that inflammation, then you're going to get the nutrients, you're going to get the things that you need out of that. People who don't do well with gluten, particularly with auto immune, because their fire department is already taxed out. Yeah. All the engines are out, there's no reserves. So now this inflammation starts to wreak havoc. So reducing things that we know are more pro-inflammatory than others reduces it down. And I'm just going to grab another word that you said, antigenic, right? So sometimes that word is kind of, I don't know what that means, you know, but, you know, antigenic basically means that it's a stimulatory for the immune system. So these foods that are causing our immune system to react in such a way that it's more, it's above and beyond the normal response. That's what we're, what we get concerned about. So when we say these hyperantigenic or hyperallergenic foods, we want to pull those out just because we want to calm things down, give the immune system a rest. 80% or so of our immune system is in our gut. That's what we see initially. We just need to calm things down. So if we're trying to restore our immune system and get better function, you know, healing the gut and focusing on that and getting the diet aspect is super important. So no, I totally agree. I'll let you finish now with your three things. If there's anything else you want to add to that. Perfect. So yeah, those sleep and air, air, water, food. And then the other thing is this whole, and I want to go back to you and hear what you have to say on the stress resilience. So this could encompass a lot of things, but it's the mind, body, soul spirit. And if we go down to a real core level, I feel like we all need passion and purpose. So we need meaningful relationships. We need, and honestly, so a lot of people that I talked to, when we really dive deep, whether it's a parent or a child or a spouse or a sibling, there's a lot of toxicity. And so dealing with these relationships in a healthy way is really core because if you have this chronic conflict or difficulty in real relationships, it's going to affect your immune system. And it's really important to get healthy and to try to resolve these kinds of things in order to get to that state. And we kind of ignore sometimes those relationships and, but they really do affect the immune system. And then a passion and purpose, we all need something in our lives that we're passionate about or purposeful about. Like we've shown the studies of the people who retire and lose their purpose and they die sooner, and they have more mortality and more disease. So I am such a fan of like helping patients find maybe they're in a career they hate and they feel like they have to be in that job and going deep and saying, what do you really want to do if there was no restrictions on time or money or that? What do you really want to do? And I love, I literally write on the prescription a couple things to help them kind of start to go that direction. I'm not a therapist, so I'll get the professionals to help them. But one thing I ask them is, what else is possible? Because that opens up their subconscious and their spiritual realm of thinking about maybe there's something else possible for me that they're not thinking of. And then the other thing I often tell them is be kind to yourself. Most people are very compassionate and kind to other people and us as healers too. It's very easy to show that love and compassion to others around us. But we're very critical and judgmental and hard on ourselves. And we have these negative tapes playing in our head. And I'll tell you what, I love your comments on this, but what I feel like is autoimmunity partially is due to those negative self talks like self loathing, self hate, self decreasing judgment, all of those things. And so I know from my personal journey with autoimmunity, one of the biggest healing things was taking out those negative self talks and replacing them with loving myself and having self compassion. And this doesn't mean putting myself above anyone else. But what it is is just the value knowing that what I used to do is cancer and Crohn's that I thought it was like this battle, right? I'm going to fight this. I'm going to beat this. I'm going to do this. But that fight when I came to mold was actually the thing that was hurting me because the fight in my immune system was actually creating more inflammation, which is Sears by definition. So I had to reprogram and reframe my thought process from being fighting to being loving kindness to myself and knowing that I was capable of healing and it changed everything. Wow. That was a lot that you shared just very, very short period. And so I'm going to try and piggyback on a few of those things and then I'll distill it down into the things that I would share. Because I think a couple of things that you said that I totally agree with and feel are super important. One, you talked about relationships. And so we talk a lot about at our center the five pillars of health. And the five pillars of health are our movement, exercise, sleep, nutrition, stress management, and relationships. And I feel like relationships often is the one that kind of gets set to the side and gets out. And just a quick story about a patient of mine who, and this is why I'm pretty confident my wife got Lyme in Sedona because she was in Sedona. She had had lymphoma. She was on the way back from Sedona and started a fever, started to get a rash. And before she knew it, she was in the hospital receiving IV antibiotics for berylosis. And so she had a fulminant Lyme disease and was treated. And so we were working with her and it was years of working with her. And she was getting better in a lot of ways, but for the most of a lot of her symptoms weren't. She was still wheelchair bound at times. And sometimes she could use some support, but a lot of times would be in a wheelchair. And I would look at her labs and her labs were better. Like her Lyme disease had converted from IgM to IgG and her CD57 count or C4A or TGF pain. All of those were still inflamed and abnormal, but so much better. It didn't make sense. Her symptoms were not consistent with the disease regression. And it was just a struggle. And finally one day I asked her how are things, and I knew her family and I knew her husband. He was a patient, but I said, you know, how are things going? And all of a sudden she started opening up to the abusive relationship she was in. And how her husband would literally say, I have a gun in the drawer over there. I could just blow your head out if I wanted to. Just crazy stuff like that. And that was the kind of stress that she was under. He had a drug addiction. And she was dealing with that. And so when we talk about immune suppression and difficulty with immune resilience, it's these kinds of things. And I think all of us, you and I have had this conversation multiple times before just talking about our own personal stories of emotional traumas and growing up. And with our families who often mean well but end up causing emotional traumas. And it's not because they are always intentional. The emotional traumas that we experience in growing up are not intentional a lot of times, but they're part of mortality. They just are part of life. And so I think these relationships are really important and have a huge impact. So I would say, you know, a little pearl is anytime you have a patient, if you're a practitioner or if you are a patient, things aren't getting better. You're hitting a plateau and they're not resolving. They're not moving forward. Stop and think about what's going on with your relationships. And it could be prior relationships. And it doesn't have to be spousal relationships. It could be work. It can be children. It can be parents. It could be your next door neighbor. But if there is significant emotional trauma going on, that's going to impact your fight or flight response. And it's going to impact your immune system negatively. And so I think that's an area that in both of you and I have seen this in our patients, right? We both use DNRS. And we've seen the almost miraculous turn of events with patients when they start doing this, the self affirmation, these exercises to start rewiring the brain out of this negative emotional loop into a more positive, reaffirming, healthier, non-shaming loop and it moves forward. I'll let you comment before I go on. Oh, I just love, love how you're going here. Because again, I know we think the same, but this is truly if you're stuck, these are the kinds of things that are going to make the difference. And I only speak from personal experience and then with patients as well, because I've been there. I've done the work and continue to do the work. It's never done. But one of the things that just resounded as you're talking, and I remember just, I'll give you an example of a patient a few weeks ago that talked about literally as a very young infant having abuse and she found out later what happened. And as I heard her story, what she was presenting with was reactivity to everything in her environment, even water, like everything in her environment caused reactivity. We've seen these patients, right? Where they're severe mass activation, sears, mold, like everything in the book, but just reacting to food and air and her home and really, really in dire straits. And I literally, like I started crying when I talked to her because I said, you've never felt safe, have you? Like I knew in my soul, this is a safety issue. Like she started out her early life with being unsafe in her home. And she'd never dealt with that. And like my heart was so compassionate towards her because I realized in just talking to her, this was not, there was no pill that was going to help. There's no vitamin. There's no IV, ozone or antibiotic or anything. It was just pure safety. And I had such compassion because this poor woman, she's in her fifties and basically her entire life, her body and her immune system and her limbic system has never really understood what it is to feel safe. And I just, I had such compassion because I knew I'm not the expert, right? I'll help you get to the people, the therapist, the DNRS, whatever you need, because I know experts that can help you deal with this. But I knew in that instant, we have to deal with her safety first before I can do any sort of intervention. And that's part of why it had gotten to the point. Doesn't that make sense? And I'm sure you've seen the same thing. It's like that, not only self-love. And I grew up in a culture that was pretty against self-love because it was like being prideful or like putting too much emphasis on the self versus others. And I've really shifted because I realized, you know, in going to that extreme of like putting myself down, putting myself last, self-loathing, rejection of myself, or even judgment about myself, that was actually hurting my own body. So I had to come to a place of, when we talk self-love, it's just literally like knowing, like for me, it's knowing God created my body and it's a vessel and it's worthy of love and respect and messages that are positive, but it's not either extreme. And sometimes our society, I think gets confused about that. And I was so profoundly changed when I started loving myself and knowing my selves were worthy of that. So the safety is a huge message and the love because auto-immunity is a tack of self, right? So metaphorically, it makes perfect sense that there's a piece of not loving yourself and yourselves. And again, you may listen and be like, okay, Jill, this is all metaphorical, but guess what? We both know there's great science behind what we're talking about, right? That's the best thing is whether it's Gabor Mate or Peter Levine, the science behind what we're talking about is strong. So I'll let you comment on that now, but this is important stuff. No, what you said is absolutely beautiful. And so I'm going to use that to then jump into my three things. Perfect. So my, the three things that I would say is first, starting your day off with some kind of centering, right? Some kind of spiritual centering. So whether that's meditation, whether that's prayer, and it's more than just a quick 30-second, this is what I'm going to do. But there's an element of really thinking about things that are bigger than you, whether you're religious or not, but thinking about the universe, thinking about you and what your role is. And then just asking the question, what good can I do today? Who do I need to touch? Who do I need to help? And just pondering and centering and doing that to start the day off. And then I love what you were saying, right? This self-affirmation. Every human being is worthy of love. Every human being is in and of themselves worthy of hope and love and being cared for. And so, you know, just acknowledging that you are a divine being and being able to move forward, that just starting with that is huge. And just that creates a center of peace. And, you know, Gabbarmate talks about, it's not about the addiction, it's about the pain. Why? Where is the pain? Why are you having pain? And how do we get to the root of that and solve that? And when you're spending time in awareness as you start the day, things will bubble up. Yes. I have a good friend who's a documentary producer and you're getting into doing a documentary this next year, but he several years ago started writing just three pages a day. And he said the first week of just writing three pages a day felt tedious. He was like, I'm just, you know, writing about what I did each day and there was nothing that was cathartic about it. But then it started to come. Then it started to flow. So it took some effort first and then, and now it's been a game changer for him. And he's gotten a lot out of it. So that's number one. Two is what you've already thought. You know, it's like having a deliberate and conscious awareness of what you're putting in your mouth, right? So whether it's clean water, clean food, but having an awareness. Now I'm not saying that you can never have a piece of chocolate cake, right? I'm not saying that you should never have a chocolate chip cookie, which are some of my favorites. But what I try and do is be more aware of what that's going to do to my body. I know that this is going to be a higher inflammatory food. So I need to make sure that I don't do it super often. And that I'm meeting other rainbow colors. I would be I mean, it always says about eating the rainbow, but it's because those, those plant nutrients and antioxidants are going to be healing. They're going to provide the energy and the nutrients and the antioxidants and the vitamins that we need to heal our body from the inflammation and help support those fire, fire engines. And then lastly, I would say is what you started off with, and that is getting adequate restorative sleep. And I totally agree with you in regards to the deep sleep and the REM sleep, right? The deep sleep is where we're restored. The REM sleep is where we're rewired, right? That's why we're having dreams. It's during the REM sleep, we're having this dream state and all these things because our brain is rewiring. It's going through. And so sometimes these dreams are scary and crazy because there are these emotional traumas that are coming up and our brains working through that. And we have to replace those with better memories and better rewiring and stuff. So dreams are ways that we do that, but it starts with how we start in the morning, then what we do with ourselves during the day and then how we end by getting that restorative sleep. So those are my three things. Love. I love that we're going here. Now you guys saw the title here, it's resilience and seers. So you might be like, where are you going? This is all related. Let's pull this together in the last five or 10 minutes because it is absolutely resilience and seers, everything we've talked about. Why don't you go ahead and tell us what is seers? What is this thing in case people don't know? And then how does this relate to what we're talking about? Because I think there's nothing more important we could talk about with resilience and seers in our discussion so far. Yeah. So I'm going to refer people to Metagenics Institute. I did a talk on there on chronic inflammatory response syndrome. That goes into a lot more detail. It breaks it down. I will be sure and link that wherever you're watching this. I'm going to have the link below. You will find it there. So Dr. Lindquist, be sure and give that to me and I'll make sure it's there for you all. Okay. And it's about it. It's only 20 minutes. So it's relatively brief, but that will go into a little broader detail into what seers is. But in brief, it's when our immune system is responding to some kind of infectious trigger and toxin that then creates this inflammatory loop. And so we can't get out of it. So we continue to have chronic inflammation and what that does to our body is it doesn't allow for the repair. And the easiest way to understand if you think about macrophages, which are a type of white blood cells, they're in the alarm phase or they're in the repair phase. They have the ability to switch back and forth. And what happens is in the chronic inflammatory response syndrome is that they get in this alarm phase and they continue to release these inflammatory side of kinds, these chemicals that go out the body and continue to perpetuate the alarm and the body can't get out of it. And so in order for that to switch, we have to get these M1 macrophages into an M2 phase where now they're starting to eat up the debris, get rid of the toxins, release these similar side of kinds, but now these are more triggering to restore. They will start recruiting stem cells into repair damage. So it's a different type of communication that has to happen. And so that's really kind of in a nutshell what chronic inflammatory response syndrome is. And we can see it from Lyme disease. We can see it from mold. We can see it from even breast implant illness from toxins. We can see it from exposure to water and toxins and other things. And so this is something that we're seeing a lot now. And there's similarities with post COVID syndrome. They're falling into the same camp. And it's no surprise because it's the same kind of activity. And then again, what we talked about before, our kind of title was resilience in sears. So really this sears encompasses a lot of what we're seeing nowadays. And what it is is these layers of infection toxin that are stimulated, like you said, the immune system, and this cycle that just keeps perpetuating until we kind of put a stop to that with all the things. But the relation to what we just talked about is gosh, IV ozone, hyperbaric therapy, all these really fancy expensive things, these are great. And they can be very helpful. But you must start with the emotional health, the meditation and prayer, the centering, the food, the sleep, all of these things we just got done talking about, those are still the foundation of the healing. And is there anything else we didn't mention in that resilience bucket that you think we should address for people dealing with this that they might want to know what else could they do? I don't think, I mean, I'm sure there probably is. But the thing I want to get back to you is what you were just saying, right? The question is why is there so much sears now? And circling back to that, it's because of the toxic environment, the stressful environment that we are living in right now. There's never been a time where our kids have had to go through more stress, more anxiety, more chemical toxicity, more food toxicity, more infectious exposure than ever before. So it's no wonder that we're seeing this. But the only way we combat against this is by doing the things that will strengthen our immune resiliency. And there's treatments. And then there's strengthening the immune resiliency. And there's a difference between those two. And the ozone, the stem cells, the PMF and all of those things, those are, those are great. And they move the needle faster than if we don't use them. But you don't need them in order to continue to progress. They're just moving you faster. Correct. And so I think that's, that's something I was trying to frame for my patients is that, look, we, we're going to get you there. But the chronic inflammatory response syndrome is going to take about three to seven years to get you to a place where you're going to be immune resilient again. So don't, don't get impatient. Don't think this is going to be a quick turnaround. And, and I'm curious to hear what you, what your thoughts were in your journey about how long it took. But I love that you said that, that three to seven years. I love, love, love that because a lot of times docs are over promising six months or three, there's no way this stuff, you don't make it. In my experience, six months was the minimum to see the tiniest budge of the needle, six to 18 months to get out of crisis. That's crisis. That's moving up to 30%. So, and then like you said, like I'm five years out and I'm 95% better just like you. But I still, all those things we just talked about, I literally practice those every day, like every day, I incorporate those things. So I love that you talked about that because the reality is if you're suffering out there and you think that it's going to be six months, you're frustrated because you think I am the outlier. It's, I must be abnormal. There's something wrong with me. No, sweetheart, it's okay. And I say that like with self-compassion, we are in compassion to you because that is having the wrong expectations as part of this too, isn't it? Yep, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that, I think that's a good sum, a good place to probably wrap it up. Yes. And let me tell, let's tell, where can people find you? Like I said, I'll include all the links to the video from Medigenics Institute, but where can people find you? And is there anything else you've got going on, future projects? Yeah. So they can find me in, in Temecula at the Temecula Center for Integrated Medicine. And the website there is www.tcimedicine.com. Or now we've been working, I've been working with Medigenics the past year and a half to open and personalize Lifestyle Medicine Center in Orange County in California. And so you can find us there at www.plmc. And the, the background that you see is, is that new clinic there in Elisa Viejo. And, you know, essentially the, the, the new projects and the new things that I'm working on really has been this joint project with Medigenics. We're really hoping that as we get this established that we're going to be able to start cranking out some lifestyle medicine research, get a bunch of studies out there and hopefully change the way medicine is practiced. We're working on some software development that is going to really revitalize the way that patients and physicians can communicate and partner in their, in their changes from lifestyle to nutrition to sleep and just use the tools that we have. But if we have that all in one succinct place where we can communicate and have that journey together. I love this. And I love what you're doing because you're moving the needle on a much bigger scale. I've always had great respect. You've got a great business sense. You've done a tremendous job at all the creation you've done. And now pushing research, education, getting more, both of us really want, whether it's documentary or your work with personalized lifestyle medicine Institute, getting the public to really understand this at a larger level. So thank you so much for your time today. This was absolute pleasure. I think we hit on some really important topics. And I hope to see you in the circuit here soon. We're back out and about for sure. It's always fun deal to have a conversation with you. It's always a joy, a pleasure. So thank you for the invitation. You're welcome.