 Hello everybody. I'm Matt. I'm joined by dark zero. He is the developer of zero Linux and we're going to be talking about his distribution today along with some other Linuxy type stuff. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you are doing with zero Linux. All right. Hello Matt. It's, it's awesome to be here. I just want to say that zero is nothing. I call it the nothing distro in my head. It's just arch with a well customized and optimized KDE. That's all zero next is nothing more, nothing less. It's a blank canvas. That will offer users the VR tool that we're working on will be released with with the September ISO that will allow all users to shape zero Linux into whatever however they their hard desires. That's the whole point of zero links. It's very simple. And it's using the best desktop environment I've ever seen and have ever used. And as I, as I say on all the interviews I got introduced to KDE via Manjaro. And I've been in love ever since now. I just love KDE so much it's got its issues. It's on fair share of issues. Every desktop environment does. But what I don't understand is why do you have those kind of issues where it doesn't respond and it explodes in your face. That's what I don't understand because I've been using it for two years now. And the only annoying on the only type of issues that I've had small ones like the right click the compositor. Sometimes because I use auto composer extension. It's supposed to kill the compositor every time you full screen an app so you can get the best performance out of the app but sometimes it doesn't respond but that's not the fault of KDE it's the fault of the extension that I got. But other than that there's no major crashes none of that. K-Win crashes and all that kind of stuff. So but maybe I've had those kind of issues with Fedora. Yes. But other than Fedora I haven't seen those kind of issues. Well I have problems with KDE no matter what distribution that I'm on. And it's not that I don't like KDE. KDE is my favorite desktop environment when I use one because I like the customization aspect of it and I mean that's kind of my stick. But the I mean I know I'm not the only one that has these problems because every time I do a video like that I get comment after comment in the comment section saying they have the exact same problems or problems you know other problems. So I know it's not just me but the thing I my biggest problem with KDE when I use it on my production machine is I usually almost always have a window manager also installed. And when you want to customize cute apps in a window manager you have to set certain environment variables in order for Alex appearance and QT5CT to work. And if you set that environment variable for QT5CT the theming in KDE breaks like you can't use it. Those two things aren't compatible to do which means that if when you hop back into KDE after using your window manager for a while. And you still have that environment variable work that's when things just go wrong or you have to remove or you know coming out the environment variable. Get that thing gone and then it works again and then if you hop back into a window manager you got to re-enable it's a mess. So this is most a lot of my problems come from that but not all of them because I mean you've probably seen me do this on video like with my Kinaway video the other day. That didn't have another window manager installed those problems were you know things that I experienced just with KDE installed. Now some of that's going to be because of the Kinaway thing and the relationship between how KDE install stuff and the immutable aspect of it but I mean those aren't new issues for me. Like the settings app crashes for me almost every time I get into KDE for no reason and that has nothing to do with theming stuff. I mean that's a problem that's been going on for me for at least six months and on multiple distros. There's one thing about Kinaway. Kinaway has an issue it's a known issue they haven't fixed for God knows how long. It's during after installation or during installation sometimes you get the read only error it's not writable it says it's not writable. It's the solution for that is leaving the time zone as is. You don't touch the time zone and then you click during the installation you click next next next and everything will be OK you set the time zone after installation. They haven't fixed that issue I don't understand why it's the same thing with with KDE spin Fedora KDE spin sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't depends on the time zone. Different distributions have different issues with KDE but arch it's the most stable KDE experience I've had in a long time. Now the issues I like I said before are very small annoying issues. For example that I don't know. Nicolo the developer who created the floating panel. I talked to him and he was I asked him why is the. The taskbar key the panel keeps growing. Gaining a few pounds. Every time I maximize a window he was like it's by it's by nature because of the shadows and things. Now. When you use a lot of dog as a panel that's when everything lines became big up starts lining up. But unfortunately let it off his head. And I I cried over it because. If there was one. Saying in KDE that was amazing it was like it was so flexible it allowed me so much customization for my panel my dog everything. I was like now it's dead and he's Greek. Like me. I'm like dude. I asked him why he was like I have other projects. That will bring me more money than let it off everywhere. So. I agree. You know when you need to put food on the table. You tend to go towards thing that will put that food on the table not towards a thing that won't. So. It's all good but I hope. That somebody will pick it up and from what Nicolo they said somebody from the KDE team will pick it up. It just it's a matter of time. That's good. I'm glad somebody's going to take that on. Yeah. And I just updated the the laptop dog get. So there's some action happening. That's good. So let me ask you this question. Why did you choose to create zero Linux? What was your. Very good question. It's very simple. The answer is very simple. I couldn't find the distro for me. And I know it's a common answer. So I had to create one and I couldn't because I wasn't a developer and I kept so I kept looking at it and everybody knows that. Since I'm not a developer and I don't understand anything I wanted something that allowed me to do that the easy way. So it's like going to sleep dreaming of a tree that will give you money. So I woke up one day and I. Was digging the Internet and I see Oracle Linux. Okay. I start messing around. I start digging around watching these videos and you know Eric he puts out so many videos. Even if you watch them in series you start learning. Even if you don't understand anything you start learning without understanding. And I watched a four and a half hour video of him creating. ALCI slash Carly. I was like. Don't just run the script in terminal and to build the ISO. That's it. That's all I have to do. I tried it and it worked. So I built the Oracle Linux B plasma because I'm a kiddie guy. It worked. So I was like okay and then two days or three days later he created a video if you are showing us how to. If you want to replace plasma with something else or. No with something else. I started learning from those videos. Long story short. Zero was born from these two tools that he created. I just put replaced his stuff with the stuff I want and instead of adding KDE or plasma the whole meta package. I split it into separate files because I didn't want this cover because that's a piece of crap. At least on orange. I replaced a lot of things. I removed a lot of things. I just added the things that mattered. And I started reading up each. There's over a hundred packages. I started reading the description of each package to know which ones to add. And I started talking to the endeavor guys. The endeavor Joe from Joe. Cam card whatever. His last name is sorry if I put your name Joe last name Joe. But. He started helping me. Then the Garuda. Some of the Garuda developers started helping me as well. So it was a collaborative effort because I asked questions. I got the answers. And. Quite simply I just created because. I don't. I didn't find a distro for me. So I wanted to create one that suited my my needs which basically for me a perfect distro is a distro that doesn't force anything on you. You had the total freedom to do whatever you want after installation. I couldn't find that. Manjaro of course. Their repositories on us. In Denver OS they had their way of doing things. Which is very close to how I like to do things. But still they offer too many desktops and for me offering anything in the installer is confusion galore. I just wanted an install that took two minutes to install because I have a bad internet. So. Yeah. That's how zero index was born. I wanted it a certain way. I couldn't find anything that did that. So I started building from building blocks like Eric says from different places in Denver OS Manjaro. Arco. Garuda. KOS. It's bits and pieces from everywhere. I don't I didn't write a line of code. So Donna and I don't know how to use a lot of things. I just did it my way the way I know things if you ask me things about BDR BTR FS or butter FS. I have no clue. I know it has snapshots. But that's all I know about butter. So if you ask me to support if you chose butter FS it while installing zero Linux. Don't expect me to be able to help you. I can copy paste a link from Archewiki and send it to you. But you can do that as well. So when it comes to support zero Linux is more on the lines of RTF. Right. So Katie Eve is going to be pretty much the game of town from now on. Right. Okay. That was one of my questions was there's not going to be no window managers or anything like that in the future. Different ISOs. Well, here's the thing. Eric created something called the arch tweak tool. Arch Linux tweak tool. And he supports a lot of distros with that tool. One of them being zero Linux. We collaborated on that. He asked me to modify zero links. So the Arch Linux tweak tool works with it. And I asked him to remove a few features from the tool so we don't have duplicate features. So for window managers and other desktops, you will be able to install those via the Arch Linux tweak tool. There's no reason for me to maintain and support a separate ISO or a separate desktop environment or anything like that, because the Arch Linux tweak tool exists. I will be mentioning it at some point. But yeah, since that tool exists, I don't need to create that and do that. There's only things that you have to do on the KDE side. Like you mentioned K5 RCT or whatever. That file is very dangerous. That file, if you start modifying it and you use window managers, like you said, it's going to mess with things. Yes, that's the annoying part. But if you download zero Linux just to install a window manager on top, just get a distro that already ships like Arch Graph, that already ships with window managers and stuff like that. But that doesn't mean that you cannot do that on zero Linux. Just be ready that you cannot remove KDE. You can disable certain parts of it so it doesn't mess with the desktop environment or window manager that you choose to install and use. But you can do it. It's doable. Nothing cannot be done. Just be ready to do more work than other distros. Right. What about other features that you'd like to add in the future? Things that you're kind of on your dream list of things you'd like to add? Things like I'd like to add to zero Linux nothing much. Zero Linux for now has reached my vision. My vision has been completed. We can always add a few tweets and knickknacks here and there, but no more huge features. Simply because if I can raise extra money beyond the goal that I set in my fundraiser, because I currently have a fundraiser running to keep the lights on because Lebanon is going through extreme power cuts. We only get the power for six hours a day. So if I raise more than the allotted amount, I will put that extra amount for the Steam Deck. Because I'm thinking of putting zero Linux to the Steam Deck, because this whole idea of two gigabytes of home partition and immutable file system overriding everything you do on the desktop is annoying me. So maybe that and for zero Linux for the Raspberry Pi. I already have a Raspberry Pi, but I need to learn and adapt myself to understand how the Raspberry Pi works when it comes to custom distros. But yeah, there are plans for the future for zero Linux, but first I need to keep the lights on. Right, that makes sense. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about some of the recent stuff that you've done and had to deal with. So let's get into the grub issue. So that has been a big issue over the last few weeks, specifically with Arch Linux, but a couple others as well. So why don't you talk about your problems that you've had with grubs, which you've done to solve it, which are, or not solve it, but work around it, I should say, stuff like that. Well, the grub issue has been in annoyance more than anything else. It's not a huge issue because there are other bootloaders out there. There's system reboot. You got what's it called the refined. You're free to switch to any of those. This is the beauty of Linux. That's what I really love about Linux over Windows. Windows, it craps out on you, format, reinstall. But with Linux, there's always a solution of work around. Such like the one we applied on, we will apply on the September ISO, which is coming in two weeks. We are maintaining our own version of grub now. We have to. We're pulling a Manjaro, as I call it, by holding it back, but they left us no other choice. For some odd reason, the issue is very simple. It's a miscommunication between the arch maintainers and the grub maintainers. The grub maintainers, they're pushing commits to the Git as one does when working on a project. But for some reason, Arch decided to start shipping Git, the Git package, as a stable package. Unexplainable, no matter how many times we try to ask the Arch people, they keep replying, it's working, there's no issue. It's not our job, we're not paid to provide support for different distros out there, custom distros out there. Those kind of replies. There's no issue, there's no issue. First thing is when it's not one single distro suffering from these things, but it's a multitude of distros, then there's something wrong. I don't blame the grub guys, the grub guys are doing their thing, they're pushing Git commits as one does and tests and before release. It's the miscommunication between them and Arch. And why do we have to suffer? I don't know. I decided to package it up and call it zero grub instead of grub so it doesn't conflict with grub package and it's going to be shipped on the latest ISO and it's going to be version 206-5, which is not before they started shipping the Git commits. Some distros are shipping the latest stable Git version like Manjaro, they're on the R261, which is before all these issues started happening. I chose the non-Git version but they both the same, not many things have changed. So yeah, from until the matter gets resolved, this is the workaround we have applied on Zero Linux. Other issues, there weren't any major, any other major issues so far. Oh yeah, there is one. Did you notice, I don't know if you used Arch lately, but they decided to, you know how before on the Arch ISO that's shipped on the, that you download from the Arch website, their live environment, the bootloader that they used to use for their live environment was system debut. Now they switch to grub. I don't understand why, but it's just Arch being Arch. That's it. Arch is by nature what you make of it. They give you a very minimalistic code or base, very minimalistic base and you shape it into whatever you want. They're not responsible if the thing that you shaped using it is faulty or broken. You are the one who makes the decisions, who should understand what works with what and how to build things together. If you put things in compatible with other things, you're going to end up with an unstable system. But lately Arch has been taking questionable decisions. So this is when it's up to us as maintainers to do some research and make things work. It makes our job a little bit more difficult, but it's still fun. Linux is fun, that's what we use. It is fun. The whole grub scenario thing is that it definitely is one of those things that made people think worse about Arch, even if their experience wasn't with the vanilla Arch ISO. If they were using Arco or they were using XeroLinux and they had this experience, they'll think, well, yeah, this is a XeroLinux problem. But more it's that they understood that this thing came down from Arch, especially when they get online and do their Googling and say, oh, this is affecting all these distros. The number of tweets and things on Reddit, I saw, well, this is the reason why nobody likes Arch or people can't stand Arch's instability or Arch is unstable, things like that. It did not do well to help their... Yeah, it put a dent in their reputation. But again, I do say you have to be smart about it. You cannot use Arch Linux unless you know that it's going to be as unstable as you make it to be. Sometimes in rare cases, this is like the grub issue because Arch made decisions that are questionable. But most of the time Arch is what you make it to be. It's just a base. You don't have grub on it. You don't have anything on it. You just got a base. You can use it as is and just install a few packages and keep it as a TTY. But the moment you decide to start installing desktop environments and window managers and display managers and this and that, and you decide it's unstable, well, it's because you made it unstable. You must have installed... Most of the time it's not 100% of the time, but it's at least 70 to 80% of the time user error because they install something incompatible with something else. You have to read and, yes, when you start using Arch, be prepared to do a lot of reading. You're going to read the equivalent of two or three books to start understanding Arch the right way. But it's how you build it and then if, for example, I created zero Linux and something happens, the responsibility falls on me because I am the one who built zero Linux and I accept this responsibility because I decided to include this package, that package, and I put it all together. Yes, I have to provide support for everything that I put together, but only what I put together, what am I held responsible for? When users begin adding on top of it more desktop environments, more window managers, more compositors, they want to test another kernel and whatever. I cannot provide support for all these variables because I am not the Arch Wiki. I don't have all the information in the world to provide all the answers. I don't have all the answers. Plus, add to the fact that I am not a developer. The only thing I have tested is what I ship with zero Linux and the packages that I have on my repositories that come from the AUR. I have tested every single one of these packages, most at least, 98% of these packages. There are always a few packages that I get requests for. I just built from the AUR, push it to my repo, and it's up to the user to use because he's the one who wants to use that tool and he must have used it prior. I just built it for him because he doesn't want to spend the time waiting for it to build from the AUR. There are some packages that I did not test, but most of them I did. I accept responsibility for everything I include on zero Linux, but anything outside zero Linux I'm not responsible for, so it's up to the user to start learning. I do my best to point them to the right direction. Yes, I can do that. It's easy because I understand where to go and where to search. I give them the links and sometimes I go above and beyond. Like today, I have a person on the team. He's the manager. He manages the team. He created a video today that I uploaded to our channel that helps users switch to system debut because of the grub issue. We do what we can to supply the users with the right information. Beyond that, it's up to them to how they implemented and how they use it. I take full use of the forums. The only point for the forums is not to provide support. This is on social media because you get immediate support. The forums are only there to... You have a question. You want to know how to do a certain thing. We post a guide on the forum that you will be able to read and go through, but that's a guide that's copy pasted from somewhere else. It doesn't mean that we have tried everything. He created the video because he tested the thing and he shows it on video. For things that we don't know how to do, we just copy paste the guide. There will be no video unless we want to make a video. Otherwise, it's just a copy paste from the ArchWiki sometimes. It's a dumbed-down version of the ArchWiki, so everyone understands it. Sometimes I do that. I just make it new-friendly because the ArchWiki is a manual from space. I call it. We do our best to provide everything via the forums. Otherwise, it's up to the user. RTFM, read the freaking manual. We create sometimes the manuals for you, but read them. Don't say, I want to do this and you expect us to remote into your system and do the thing for you. Sometimes I feel users expect us to do that. We do our best. We do work-arounds when we can. We apply things when we can, but other than that, learn to read. Sometimes I created the end-user agreement on the website before the user to download zero Linux, telling them this is Arch Linux. Expect issues. Don't dive to the deep end before you learn how to swim. Test it on a virtual machine. See how it goes. See if it's what you like. Then install on your main machine. Don't install it immediately on the machine. A lot of users install it immediately on their main machine. They don't know how to use Arch, what Arch is, and all hell breaks loose. Like, yeah, I told you. Did you read? No, I didn't. I just grabbed the download from X and Y website. I'm like, yeah, well, read, then come back to me. Sometimes it's annoying, but you are best to keep a smile on everybody's face. I think that there is a... I mean, this is just my opinion, but I think that there's an inherent understanding or at least an assumption amongst people who download Arch-based distros that they're going to be easier than Arch. So I don't know that that's necessarily a true across the board, but it seems like that's an assumption that a lot of people make. I know that I make that assumption a lot of the times, that it's going to... I think we can blame it on Manjaro because they were the first on the scene where they tried to make a distribution that was Arch, but more stable, easier to install as pre-made and pre-built options. And then you had Garuda and Antergos back in the day in Arch and now Xero. They make the same assumptions that they're all kind of the same and that they're supposed to be easier than Arch, right? That's what I wrote on the website. That's what I meant by that message. XeroLinux is not trying to make things easier. It's just shipping you with a desktop environment that you can shape as you wish, but to shape it, you have to have the knowledge. I'm not going to give you the knowledge. You have to learn how to get the knowledge by yourself. I just shipped it with a desktop environment and an easy way to install it rather than doing it the Arch way because people stay away from Arch because of the Arch way. Mostly. So I made it easy to install with a desktop environment to get you started with a welcome tool that will help guide you to do stuff on XeroLinux. But yeah, I am guilty of the same thing. When I went into Linux, like everybody else did, mint, right? Everybody goes with mint. But it was so boring. Like I told Chris to stack the other day. It's so boring. It never fails. Well, not never. It mostly doesn't fail. It always failed for me on the locale because it was detecting Arabic because I'm a nebonon. Other than that, it was working just fine, but it was so boring. Another type of customization I was able to do with it is Windows level customization, not Linux level of custom, unless I wanted to read manual upon manual and just be able to download widgets and see what they do and whatever. But Manjaro, I love Manjaro. It's three years running on my home theater system. Stable hasn't given me a single error message. Besides the signature keys of Pacman. Other than that, not a single error message. It's running Plex. And every time I want to, I cannot keep it turned on because no electrical power, but whenever I need to watch a movie or a TV show, I just turn it on, go to my Android shield in the living room and watch a movie. It's all being served by that system running Manjaro. And it's been running it for three years. And I only updated once every three weeks. Every time I update it, there's two gigabytes of updates. So far, no issues. And I have packages from the AUR. But Manjaro, I like Manjaro and the way they do things. I mean by the package holding things. Because like now with Grubb, because they're holding Grubb to an older version, they did not suffer the issue. None of their users suffered the issue. So this is when this package holding comes into fruition. It becomes useful. Sometimes holding packages for, sometimes they hold packages like kernels for up to a month. That's too long. But yeah, don't expect Arch to be simple. Not because it has a desktop environment. That means automatically it's simple. Arch Linux is not simple. Arch Linux is all about learning. Zero Linux is as well, because you're going to learn how to do everything to shape the system the way you want. Arch Linux same. In DevOS, they also ship you a minimalistic installation. Whatever desktop environment you select, it's a minimal desktop environment or same thing with window managers. So we are not trying to do the job for you. But we are just making it easier to get up and running. Then how you want to shape it, you have to read. Learn to read. Do you foresee a future where you're holding back more packages than just the Grubman, maybe even creating your own repository? Holding back? Oh, you mean hold back? No, I don't see holding back more packages than I need to. Now it's only with Grub. It's only when we need to hold the package to preserve our sanity and our stability. All right. So before we started recording, you were talking about how you were transitioning over to more flat packs on the system or using flat packs periods. So let's talk about that for a little while. Why have you chosen to do that? How are you implementing it? What flat packs are you using and things like that? And why? Okay. Flat packs transitioning to flat packs. When I say transitioning to flat packs, I don't mean this is the only thing we're going to offer. But this is what our tool, which is the tool that will help you guide you or get started, help you get started with zero Linux. It will offer more flat packs than regular packages. The regular packages are just packages that I built personally from the AUR or related to the distro or that otherwise are not available as flat packs. And sometimes they're available as flat packs that are archived packages. This is where I had to make the decision. Some of them I chose as regular packages like, for example, what's it called? The office suite. What's it called? Libre Office. Libre Office, I selected as a regular package over a flat pack. It exists as a flat pack, but the teaming doesn't work very well. Speaking of theming, we were able to include a patch in zero Linux that allowed flat packs to use the system theme. At least the default system theme, which is lay in zero Linux. If you want to use a separate theme, a different theme, there's a guide on the forum that will show you how to do that. But sometimes I have to make a decision. This is very hard. I have to test both of them, the regular package and the flat packs, see which one works best, and then I make the decision. But for now, most everything is offered as flat packs, discord, signal, and every little thing is offered, and now Lutris is available as a flat pack, finally. This will be offered as a flat pack, OBS, flat pack, and you would agree the flat pack version of OBS is the best one. We're transitioning to flat packs where we can via our tool, but if you want the regular package, you're free to do so. You can install it via PAMAC or Pacman in the terminal. It's up to you which version you want to use, but our tool will offer more flat packs over, because we target, our goal is simplicity and ease of use, and no dependency help, because Arch has been known to move a lot of dependencies from their repositories to the AUR, including some packages. So to get over that, flat packs to the rescue, and sometimes some dependencies disappear. They no longer exist, nor only AUR, nor Arch, because the developer decided to call it quits. That's where flat packs come in. Another reason scenario where flat packs come in, where a package works better with an older version of the dependency rather than the latest version, that's where the flat pack comes in. It keeps the old version of the thing containerized within the flat pack. So the only issue with the flat pack is the large size. If you decided to install a certain, like zero Linux on a small partition, that's 60 gigs, or something like that, 30 gigs or 60 gigs, then yeah, this is where things, the cracks start showing in flat packs because they will use up a lot of space. And there are large packages for people like myself on capped internet. But there's a nice thing with flat packs now, they're slowly transitioning to incremental updates. So instead of re-downloading the whole package all over again, it just downloads the change parts. So instead of re-downloading 500 megabytes, it will download only 20 or 30 megabytes. Sometimes I don't understand this issue with flat pack. When I'm installing a flat pack package, it says that the package size is 370 megabytes. It reaches 370, it says 380 over 370. 390, 400 over online. I've seen that too, I don't know why it does that. Yeah, it's kind of weird. I have a feeling that's more, I think that has to do with just the way they're displaying it. There's an error or something there that they're displaying the wrong size or something because obviously it can't be bigger. I mean, it has to be above the something. Or it's their terminal installation thing that's not detecting the correct final size. But they work on my system. I'm glad to say on my system, it's 90% of the apps I use are all flat packs. I wanted to ask you, I mean, my turn to ask you, what do you think of flat packs and the permissions thing where some apps like, for example, Discord, I noticed that, I learned that by myself, like chat clients, when you want to, for example, use spectacle, take a screenshot of the system and you want to paste it in the chat in any social media app, it will not allow you if it's a flat pack unless you give it the right permissions in FlatSeal. What do you think about the whole permission thing and FlatSeal? Do you think new users, it's easy for new users to grasp the idea or not? Well, I kind of, because you remember this thing is very much like what you would experience on a phone, right? You have to give all your apps that you download from like Android or iOS, you have to give those permissions, right? So it's the same thing. The difference is that FlatSeal is so disintegrated to the rest of FlatSeal. You have to download it yourself and you have to know that it exists. Once you know that it exists and you realize what it's for, it's fine. But it's getting past that hurdle. That's why I, I mean, this is going to be the biggest problem with it, is that because of the people who actually develop FlatPack itself, they're very much just going to ever ship FlatPack, but I think and I would argue that if you are going to include FlatPack on your system at all, on your distro, it should come with FlatSeal installed pre-installed. It just, it should. That's what it does. It's no pre-installed. It shouldn't. Because if you don't, you're going to have, I mean, I can hear this. How is the user to know? Yeah, I mean, you get this. I mean, I see this question in my discord all the time. Like why, why doesn't this work? Why can't I see anything other than the downloads folder? Because by default, it will see the downloads folder, but it won't see anything else, which still doesn't make any sense. I mean, if you're giving them some access to the home directory, you're already creating a way in. So it should be either all or none by default, but I agree. They just have this. I don't, I don't see a feature where the FlatPack guys themselves send out FlatSeal automatically, like, especially on like the door, like on Fedora, FlatPack is the future, right? That's what they want you to use. Because they're integrating it and building SilverBlue and Kinoa and stuff like that. The FlatPack is the direction that they're wanting to go, but you don't see any indication of them including FlatSeal by default. It's kind of had been pulling teeth in order to get them to even enable FlatHub by default. You know, so. Yeah, there's that, but there are some I noticed lately, there are some applications specifically, I noticed this with Lutro, and I don't know. Sorry. Bless you. There's a there's with Falsilla and Lutrus and Heroic Game Launcher. I know I pay attention to the terminal output, which I recommend a lot of users do because this is what will make or break some system sometimes. If you don't pay attention to your terminal output and you don't see a certain package displayed during installation during the post installation and you reboot your system and you see your system broken like what happened with Grubb. Now they have a message that displays that you need to run a certain tool a certain command. If you don't read that and you don't run these commands and you end up with a broken system you only have yourself to blame because you didn't pay attention to the terminal output. But anyway, what I wanted to say is I installed FlatPack to be a terminal. I like that because I like to read for both output. I noticed that those applications they ship with different permissions than regular packages. There's a command that runs before the installation so prepare in the prepare phase it gives it applies some tweaks to FlatPack it tells the FlatPack to give permissions to those tools to the home directory so there's a part it tells you it shows like FileZilla, I installed it I used to use the regular package I decided to uninstall it install the FlatPack. When I opened the FlatPack it automatically saw my settings which were in my .config folder .config .config FileZilla it detected my usernames and my logins and everything. This package for example already has access from the get go to your home directory and .config there are a lot of it can be done by the package of FlatPacks of certain FlatPacks it's up to them to decide if they should give permission or not. I feel like you said each app like for example Discord, Signal, Telegram and stuff like that can be shipped with access to at least the home directory from the get go, not as the user to give them access via FlatZilla and do this full circle just to be able to use them correctly. From the things that I've read the eventual goal behind FlatPack itself is going to be to remove the ability for developer Steven include that support for the home directory that it's going to have to be something that the user is going to have to grant because they want it to be completely like it's just like you would with any application you have on a phone where the system is immutable they want you to have to give the user that control and eventually the developer just won't be able to do it because it's only going to be Sandbox, right? The thing is then what's going to be interesting and what I think that might end up happening is that developers just get to the point where FlatSeal is a dependency. If you download the Audacity FlatPack there is a second FlatPack that comes along with it as the codex, right? OBS has a couple dependencies. It wouldn't surprise me in the future if some apps that require that the permissions and stuff just require FlatSeal to be installed or downloaded alongside. There is a dependency like some packages have dependencies that NVIDIA driver since some packages specifically gaming packages like Lutrus and Heroic Game Launcher have the NVIDIA driver as a dependency. Ship FlatSeal as a dependency at least the way I have it right now, Zero Linux will ship in an upcoming release will ship with FlatSeal to be installed. But the user has to find it. The user won't know where to find it unless I put it in the dock. I noticed a lot of my users are new to Linux users so they won't know that there's something called FlatSeal that grants permissions to their applications. I agree with you when you say applications should start integrating a toggle somewhere to launch FlatSeal and apply the permissions because otherwise the user won't know. Or at least start shipping applications with permission toggles within the application within the flatback. It'd be interesting to see it just deal instead of having a separate application which I mean the separate application is fine that can be like the settings panel or whatever but if your application requires permissions just have it be a pop-up or something like that at the beginning like here at these permissions and then it's done. That'd be the proper way to do it. Yeah and because here's my issue with FlatSeal there's so many toggles in FlatSeal users might start clicking toggles left and right and breaking and ending up with a broken app or giving the wrong permissions starting opening holes they shouldn't be opening. FlatSeal is a little bit too complex for the for the new there's a lot of toggles I at first did not understand what they did until I started messing with them in a virtual machine of course. They should hide some of them behind like a drop-down or something like that. Like here are the main ones you know home directory you know access to camera, video, things like that and then the more complicated ones that most people aren't going to need those should be like behind a drop-down that's going to keep the majority of people from over under a hidden section called advanced. Yeah learning somewhere don't mess with those unless you know what you're doing use the scare tactic just to not have users mess with the wrong setting. There should definitely be a warning or something that pops up at the beginning like if you mess with these Right now it's everything in front of you you could just puggle everything. I think that the reason why they did that though is similar to the reason why a lot of people expect them to people just to kind of know what's going on or to read the manual is that they expect once you have found that FlatSeal exists that you have some kind of knowledge over what it does which isn't that's the assumption that the developer has made This is what a lot of distros have this is a mistake that a lot of distros make they assume too much they assume the users know what they're doing they assume that the users are experienced they assume they have used that application before so no don't assume anything when you create a distro don't maintain a distro stop assuming on behalf of the user the only thing you should assume is that users don't know how to use the application so put everything and anything you can to help the user guide the user if not a tool just create a guide on the forum as I did in my welcome tool as I'll be doing in my upcoming welcome tool there will be links there will be an FAQ section and there will be links to related threads on the forum even for example this is something big and I think I will thank the user Vlad for pointing me to the right direction but you know what MHW is right? Zero Linux will be shipping with it and the upcoming release finally but it's not the way people expected to be shipped Zero Linux is the installer Calamaris I'm not using it to give users access to download things during installation all that just introduces issues but there will be a button in the tool post install to install the drivers Mesa will handle the installation up to the desktop Mesa slash Movo for NVIDIA users then there will be a toggle a button in the tool that they click if they have NVIDIA or AMD pro the proprietary GPUs there's a button for proprietary drivers and a button for non-properite free drivers open source drivers if they have an NVIDIA card they click the non-free button they click on it it will detect what GPU they have and installs relevant stuff for them but I assumed that the user doesn't know so I added buttons under each two buttons for hybrid users that will send them to a guy not a guy but informational thread on the forums that I dump down to a user understandable level and another toggle for how to use Optimus QT or Optimus Manager so there are buttons to help the users I assume nothing all I do is guide the user provide anything I can to help user get started to get less questions support questions on discord or telegram so distros should do this like Manjaro already does it they have guides and buttons on their welcome tool as well some distros do but a lot of other distros should start hopping on the bandwagon because if you start assuming too much you're going to get too many questions and you're going to be providing support and spending time on support rather than spending time on making your tool or distro better that's all that annoys me sometimes and stop expecting and I ask the user stop expecting distro maintainers to do all the work for you that's a small little annoyance I have both ends the users expect too much and the maintainers assume too much makes sense okay so let's talk a little bit before we hop out of here about what your next step is so right now you do not have a ISO to download so talk about when we're going to see that and the things that are surrounding that situation and it's because of the grub but talk about when we're going to see it alright the reason I took out the current ISO from being available is because it's an old ISO from May our release schedule sorry it's from June but our release schedule is every three months so from June so the next release is this month it's on the 15th of every every three months on the 15th it will be available in two weeks less than two weeks we're on the third for 12 days and the changes are not big visually the only visual new thing you're going to get is the new wallpaper and we switched away from latte doc because it's a dead project for now we switched to for the doc it's plank and back to the KDE panel floating panel on top and our tool the everything else is under the hood so now as I mentioned earlier you're going to get the MHWD which will help you install the right driver for your GPUs at least the ISO will come, will ship with flat seal for flatback users it's going to ship with all the input drivers including fingerprint support all the printer drivers so it supports out of the box all the printers you need we've optimized the KDE to use 600 megabytes on cold boot which prior it was using around 900 so we shaved 300 megabytes off of the cold boot usage and what else did we do uh that's about it it was a lot of under the hood fixes, tweaks technical stuff but what the user should understand that we have back grub because of the grub issue we were given another alternative Arch is sticking with the Git release as stable scenario we prefer to offer something stable rather than something bleeding edge like Git when it comes especially when it comes to a bootloader which is an essential part of the system so we have back grub if you disagree with that you're entitled to disagree you can still remove the package we installed the version we included in 010 the bleeding edge version just do it at your own risk it's not something we're going to provide support for we did what we can it's up to you to agree or disagree we will be putting forth all the warnings necessary warnings but yeah 010 is and will always remain a stability first distro with KDE and you're free to do with it whatever you wish just don't think that we know too much just by being a maintainer doesn't mean that we know the whole world of Linux and we know how to do everything related to Linux you're going to be expect to receive the I don't know message to a support request because we don't know a heck of a lot we just know what 0 Linux uses that beyond that we don't know anything and none of us are developers we outsource developers to do stuff for us we don't do anything in-house the developer working on our current working on the upcoming version of our tool is Ronkashi OS I requested help he answered the call and we're all doing it pro bono and I want to say one last thing before we hop out of here 0 Linux development will not stop but there is a small issue now since I'm from Lebanon and Lebanon is going through a tremendous bad times right now huge bad times I don't know how you call it the worst times of all times we're getting only 6 hours of power a day this power is going to go in a few I don't know what time is it it's going to go in 2 hours we're asking for support to be able to pay the bills because we're increasing and we're having harder and harder time to keep developing with no lights on so if you can, you're not forced to if you can I hope you can add your fundraiser in the description the links for both your websites your page on and your fundraiser will be in the video description yes cool thanks we're raising funds to be able to pay to keep the lights on because we just received the latest bill and it's 10 million of our currency which equates to $350 and without a job that's going to be hard to pay with the current situation where the salary is $180 and rent is $500 do the math so we 0 Linux is asking for your support to keep the lights on because I want to make this a full-time full-time thing if you want 0 Linux to continue we need your support with that I think I have said everything Linux it's just users when you choose when you select an ArchBase disk for whatever it may be minus Majaro which isn't Arch just expect both expect a lot of reading and learn how to do your own research because not everyone has the answers there's the creators of the of Arch specifically the ArchWiki use it and if it's too technical for you ask someone to dumb it down for you but do your own research don't expect things to be easy with Arch is cool is awesome but for the nerds not for the people who want something that works right out of the box it's the only thing that works right out of the box with no issues is macOS and we don't want to end up on macOS do we no we don't okay so 0 Linux is available 0linux.xyz those links will be in the video description along with the fundraiser and the patreon if you are interested in supporting DarkZero you can download his ISO starting on the 15th of September and you can obviously support him monetarily through the links in the video description you can support me on patreon.patreon.com thanks everybody for watching we'll see you next time