 Hello and welcome to today's webcast standing out as a leader. My name is Sarah Gonzales. I'm from Redback Conferencing and I will be your facilitator for today's session. Today we're joined by John Colbert from Corporate Edge and once again he's here to inspire us when it comes to engagement, leadership and also how you can further your career. How are you today John? Good, thanks Sarah. Great, lovely to have you with us and I love it when we have John here because we don't just stick to PowerPoint slides, we have a whiteboard, it's interactive and like I said it's all about people understanding themselves and their career and how they can stand out which exactly is what we're going to talk about today. So just give us a bit of a run-through on how today's going to progress. Yeah sure, no thanks Sarah. What we're going to do is we're going to cover off a couple of topics but from a couple of different perspectives because we're sort of talking about engagement which is around helping to build great teams. There's going to be two ways we want people to think about it. So first of all we want the people watching to sort of think about their own career and their own leadership and their own personal brand which we'll touch on and how are they demonstrating how engaged they are at work because that's going to bring career opportunities and then the other is to get into how they can understand how engaged their own team is so they can then start to work out what to do about it. Great, now one thing I really want to touch on I think you're actually going to talk a lot about it over the next 45 minutes is engagement and pretty much every event we do everyone we speak to they talk about engagement and it is a bit of a buzzword but you're going to talk about it a little bit differently. So what do we mean when we say engagement? Good, really good question to start off with. We're going to keep it really really simple and it comes to whether whether people are engaged which is also at end to see if our viewers are actually engaged. It comes down, the word I'm going to put up here to sort of get us thinking about it is how emotionally invested are we? So if we're thinking about how engaged we are at work or think about our teams how emotionally invested are we in our jobs. So in short how much do we care? It's a good way to think about it. So one of things we do know about when it comes to workplaces and teams is people who are engaged are coming to work for what they can give because they really value their job they value the work environment they're in they really enjoy the manager they're working for the team that they're part of so they're actually seeing that work is a really fulfilling part of their life and they're coming to work to give something. When that's not there people are coming to work for what they can get. And is that just someone with a smile on their face? How do we actually know if someone is engaged? How does that all begin? Fantastic really good question that's probably there's probably a couple of ways I want to sort of go through this as I run through what I guess engagements about. I want those watching to be thinking about from a couple of perspectives if I lead a team or if you're leading a team what are the ways that I can sort of look at my team to get an understanding of how engaged they are. So it's really a good way of actually literally sort of doing a bit of an assessment of a diagnosis to sort of say how I'm mostly invested are the people that I'm leading right now. At the same time as I go through this I love everybody be thinking about what does it actually say about me? How mostly invested am I? Because as I work through as we sort of work through these things in terms of what the indicators are of engagement I want the people watching to be thinking if others were looking at me from inside the organization so I've seen your leaders or more senior executives or people that I work with on a day-to-day basis were looking at me and on how I work how engaged would they think I am? So it's sort of both ways isn't it then? Totally. And like you said we want everyone to sort of reflect on what we're saying over the next 45 minutes or so but also ask questions. We've got an iPad here so any questions that will be coming through will be here and also just for people also asking especially Lisa will this be emailed to us so you can review content it will be recorded and everything you say will be able to be viewed later. Fantastic. Okay so let's really get into this then and really talk about the indicators of engagement. Yeah. Excellent. Great good way to start. So what we're looking at is here how would we know someone's engaged okay that's what we're going to work through and there's three key ones that we're going to cover off a little bit under each which is also then a good way to check if others were looking at me how would they know whether I'm engaged they're the two ways we want to look at it. So very first thing when it comes to engagement the first indicator is what we call conversations. So it's one of the first ways to get an understanding of how engaged people are is what conversations are taking place around the business. So this is I guess you as a leader when you're observing you know the behaviors and interactions of your team you're looking at what things are they saying and under conversations there's three things that we want to look at even within that. The first is are people talking it's really simple are people actually having conversations you would be amazed how many workplaces we go into and you'll see people kind of all at a communal tea area like a lunch area and people sort of passing each other and not even really interacting or kind of it's just a yeah. Hi. Or is it just like a hey how's the weather. Hey how's your galaxy. Just make make my cup of tea and kind of like hey how are you and they just go there's something but not even really interacting. Yeah. Great example we sometimes will walk into meeting rooms or conference rooms and you'll see people that sort of get there particularly cross functional project teams people sort of come together for this meeting they sort of all get in the room and they sit down they're kind of all sitting there and they sort of just looking at their phones and the messages they're all sitting at different points in the table not even actually interacting with each other waiting until somebody sort of comes in to kick off the meeting. So the first what that's actually saying we're not even conversing I mean we've got people involved in anything whenever human beings are involved the first thing we're going to get right is communication. Is that just an inherent thing some people are shy though do you think it is how do how do we really take a look at that. Okay well if it does actually indicate that so and that's what this is about it's okay so if people aren't having conversations that tells me something. And as a leader what we then need to do something about it because that's what that's what it means okay so maybe they don't feel comfortable to talk to each other okay so we've got some trust issues maybe we need to build or we've got to make people feel more comfortable but that's the thing are people actually talking is the very first thing we want to look at. Second thing is actually how are they talking about it oops sorry got to change that strike that I'll clean this up a sec it's actually what are they talking about so this is another one back to your point then about you know we're just talking about the weather when they are having conversations what are the topics of those conversations what's the content of those conversations this is a good indication of how engaged people are if they're just talking about the weather and what we did on the weekend as opposed to things that are going on around the business you know things that they're hearing around the business how people are going in their roles what are some of the challenges that you're facing what ideas are you guys working on hey we've just heard a company announcements just come out what do you guys think about that what sort of stuff have you taken from that versus we have a company announcement and then people leave the room and they just go back to hey what are you doing tonight yeah it's really interesting because I know we've got to have social relationships at work that's really important yeah but listening to the topics of the conversations is an indication of how engaged people are and what they've taken out of it so I'll give you one one story on this was interesting so I coach a GM of a pretty large business in Australia and when he first started with this company we did a lot of work on his I guess his vision and his strategy and the goals and where he wanted to take the take the organization and then he did a big presentation so he did this big sort of town hall he got everybody together and he did this big presentation to say kind of this is what we're going for his his his kind of my vision for the team and it was actually quite an inspiring session everyone's really really positive and everyone's like yeah we're on board and then he went away on holidays for four weeks and when he came back from holidays after four weeks he had went and had three conversations just with people around the office he went and just spoke to some managers who attended it and he went to the first person he said so what did you think about the presentation I did four weeks ago yeah and the first person said yes yeah no that was really interesting you can't wait to can't wait to hear more can't wait to know um yeah what that means for me yeah he goes okay talks to the second person well what did you take from it second person goes yeah yeah it wasn't bad you know curious to see whether we're actually going to be able to do anything about it interested to see whether anything's going to change goes to the third person and the third person goes um oh you know what that was really challenging um but just what I wanted to say since that since that discussion what I've been doing has been thinking totally differently about my role I've put a few things in place I've changed a few things that I'm working on with my team and I've got one big idea that I'm going to really try and work hard to get over the line because uh your your presentation really challenged me now let me ask you out of those three people who stood out most to the leader the last one of course but I'm still trying to think you know is it just the to the first two people just say stuff because they feel like they have to is what is that what we're saying well they might have they might have actually meant it they might have that might have been how they were feeling and that's the purpose of this exercise is they have they have they kept that conversation alive since have they actually been taking stuff on board to do something differently about it one of those people has got a really good personal brand in the eyes of that GM and it's not to say the other two aren't hard workers but here we go in terms of how engaged you really were in that presentation and what you've done since versus just I just go back to my job and just keep doing what I was doing is a good indicator so are you saying as a leader we should be looking out for people like this as well as well as aspiring to be people like this absolutely okay yeah good how what are they talking about are they talking about the things that are going on around the business or are they waiting for an opportunity to talk about the weather yep and the third is which I just started on is how are they talking about it so what I mean by that is it's thinking about the words and tone that people in your team are using you know so a good example is if someone's been to a just heard a company announced but they go wow that was interesting versus wow that was interesting yeah very different very different person who's engaged is going wow that's interesting there's a lot of stuff I need to think about here is a lot of stuff that I need to reflect on and work through with my team that's indicating that you know the conversation I'm having is one that indicates I'm engaged versus if you see that negativity comes out a bit of cynicism let's go are you able to the same old same old you know rolling in the eyes whatever you know people sort of just looking at each other with sly looks during a presentation that's an indication from a conversation point of view that they're maybe not that engaged yeah I'm starting to get this and it's funny because I usually don't get things this early when you start to it usually takes my while to click but this is now how we should be measuring the engagement because like I said at the beginning we hear the word engagement just thrown around so much but it's like what actually is it and this is only one third of it from what you're saying but from two ends it's about how we should be acting to be showing we're engaged and also with the signs that we're seeing is that it totally that's exactly right if what we want to do make sure from from a career point of view and demonstrating that I'm that I'm really engaged I want to make sure that I'm just talking to people so just keeping an eye there are people around the office that maybe I haven't spoken to or made an effort to get to know that's a really good thing that I can do yep to demonstrate that I'm engaged just making sure that I'm you know trying to keep you know really relevant interesting challenging topics of discussion about the business and where the business is going front of mind and looking for opportunities to have those conversations all the time and then making sure the language that I'm using in tone that I'm using is one that's really positive supportive constructive okay great second conversation yes so so the next is then our care which is how much care am I actually showing or how much care are people in my team showing which is then indicating that I'm really engaged now the first of these when it comes to how much I care is where the people are proactive and curious so a good indication is if you're proactive what it means is you're trying to make things happen without being asked you're doing things that maybe you're outside your normal area of responsibility you're looking for opportunities to get involved in new projects and new initiatives that's what we mean by proactive that reactive means I only do things if I've been asked to do it so a good indication of the care component is to be thinking how much am I seeing people in my team put their hands up for things get involved in things just make things happen look for new ideas and driving new ideas and new ways of doing things without coming to me for permission as the team leader and also for how often am I doing that myself within the business perfect the curious bit is what sort of curiosity am I showing about the organization so curiosity fastest way to show curiosity is the questions that I ask now you know I've even seen a client last week who did a bit of a town hall presentation you got everybody in the room and at the end the leaders sort of goes hey so does anybody got any questions about what I've just talked about silence and everyone just sits there absolute silence right so sitting there going okay so what does that say now yeah correct it's actually no one cares now a lot of people go oh I'm just I'm really nervous I just didn't want to say anything I knew there were some people in the room and going if I say anything that means it's going to slow us down from going to Friday night drinks so then what does that actually say about those people that just want to just get to Friday night drinks okay it's not to say yeah we should all be working back but it does indicate how much you care but also if you really did care there'd be things that you would want to ask and want to say and that's a really important moment so for those watching for you as a leader who's aspiring to build their personal brand making sure that you are asking some really good questions showing an interest in what was actually just said and what was just presented you know if emails go out you know or messages in your social communication platform saying hey guys what do you think or we're doing this any feedback any ideas making sure that we you do actually respond if there's a company survey making sure you fill it out and complete it these are all things that are indicating that you know you do actually care but also the questions on an ongoing basis shows how curious you are about where the business is going great next is whether people are available and responsive so here's a really simple way to think about it there's a cry for help that goes out somebody in the team or somebody in another part of the business says we're struggling we need some help can anybody spare some time some resources some efforts and budget whatever it is and actually people saying yep no problem I'm here to help yep that's what we mean by you know the responsive piece and available being there to help others out even when you're really busy so it's just I suppose looking at your team and thinking do I see that from people in the team they might be working on really good interesting things that they value and are really important but when other people needs need help or when you as the leader say hey I'm struggling can somebody help out what sort of response do you get yeah that's a really good indication and the other part here is also just the level of empathy that we show because this is all part of care so just showing that level that that empathy and care and respect for for people who are challenged who are under the pump who are struggling a little bit just making sure that I'm showing that warmth and care actually in the way I treat them yeah on a day-to-day basis and the final one is quality and timeliness so this is around how much do I care so if it comes to the quality of the work that I'm doing meeting deadlines you know how often do I miss deadlines how often do I turn up to meetings on time or do I turn up a little bit late how often to perhaps turn up to meetings I haven't done the things that I said that I was going to do you know how often am I you know meeting my KPIs and so on without necessarily being asked to do a lot of those things that's all an indication of this you know how I look after customers how I look after you know following our service standards and service guidelines am I doing those things without necessarily being asked to do it because I genuinely care about the company so with this as we're going through every organization has values and you know a way that they live by does this play into this or is this something that's separate because I look at this and I think a lot of people may have this just in their value system as an organization is this where we need to sort of start you know bringing this all together or is it something we just look at different as leaders you know what the point you're getting to is really really important what the whole point of engagement is what it what it comes from without getting jumping ahead to maybe some things we're going to talk about at the end of this what it's coming down to is the culture that we have because the culture of the team or the culture of the organization is the thing that determines how engaged people are and then leadership drives culture so it's all sort of making sense now it's all sort of coming together and you can't have one without the other I assume and to you know bring stuff up to your culture this is where you need to actually start totally okay I guess then when it does come to say company values asking everybody of your listeners what are the company values of the organization you work for right now how often do you talk about them with your team how often do you actually bring it to life with your team you know it's still amazing where we've got pretty good leaders who think they're pretty effective in terms of what they do and making a difference and trying to drive for company results and then you say okay so what are you doing on company values lately and they go uh well what are the values again what were those things I've sort of got to put yeah it's a bit of a tough one are they it's so-and-so it's respect it's accountability it's integrity uh what and so I said they go do you actually care or you know are you even talking about let's go through you're talking about the company values so that just there is an indication that maybe I'm not as engaged yeah with those things as what I think I am I might um as a challenge everyone out there write down your company values and see if you can think of them off the top of your head and then that can that might be a starting point for a lot of people to even judge where they are in terms of this totally yeah absolutely right am I am I being proactive and curious in ways I can be better at supporting the values and understanding the values a little bit more you know if we've got you know company value one company value might be support as an example being supportive so being supportive is a company value and then I get an email saying I'm struggling can anybody help out and I don't respond one I'm not supporting the company value and second I'm actually showing that maybe I don't care as much as what I'd like I think I think I do okay great cool let's move on to number three and the third one is commitment it's a scary word yeah yeah especially it's like because it's it's really key in relationships yeah you know relationships are around trust care and commitment they're the things that make up a relationship and effectively engagement is really asking yourself how what's the relationship like that I have with my organization what's a relationship that my team has with me as a team leader yeah so this is now getting into you know the quality of that and how committed are the people in my team when I'm seeing good levels of commitment and am I demonstrating high levels of commitment so with this first thing we will look for here is advocacy is that right it's not right yep I'm glad you're right yeah I mean it's that basically means are they advocates so you see commitment to the business is do you talk positively about the company you work for so do you tell your friends do you tell family do you tell clients you tell everybody how great it is to work for your organization with your team so the team that you're leading would they be talking great things about the organization so are they advocates suppliers is another good example you know so the suppliers you know vendors who actually sort of work for you do they actually say great things about you and what they recommend other companies to to work for you so that's a good starting point so even just thinking how often do I do that and how often do I refer friends to maybe come and fill vacancies yeah second is how long do they stay and do they return so it's a little bit around I suppose employee tenure so say how long they've worked for a company is one of the there's one of the measures a lot of companies look at in this regard and one of the things with tenure is it's changing these days because you know workplaces are changing millennials have some different values around how long they want to work for organizations they want to have lots of different work experiences you know a lot more people these days want at some point maybe ever go at starting their own business or have do job share arrangements we want more flexibility and diversity but it does still say how committed a person is in terms of how long do they stay but even if they leave after a short period of time do they come back that's usually an indication that there's a good relationship they're pretty engaged you know particularly contractors is a great example contractors that might do you know three to six month contracts but they do quite a lot of them because they actually enjoy they enjoy that they enjoy coming back I just want to sort of touch on something you just said it might be a bit off topic but I am curious when you talk about leadership and millennials with them coming now into the workforce and soon to be in leadership roles do you see the landscape of leadership changing yeah definitely like how how how is that going to change in the future what do we need to sort of be prepared for whether we are aspiring leaders or we're going to be at different levels of our career how are millennials going to affect that and all of this because from what I'm seeing and reading it's quite a different different breed yeah look it's it's definitely not off topic it's a good it's a good yeah a good thing for everybody who's listening to to understand we're already seeing them in leadership positions now so you know the I suppose at the upper age bracket we've got early 30s is where the first millennials are and they're already bringing different leadership style what's what's really important to them is that the the workplace that they're part of is a series of great experiences for them and the workplace they're part of has got to have a lot of meaning yeah so there's a lot more expectation a lot more pressure on organizations to be companies that stand for something to make sure that they stand for something that's meaningful that's really important that they build a really supportive environment millennials expect from the very beginning lots of chances to learn and grow that's really critical they expect to have a voice they expect to be trusted to be able to make decisions you know it's funny enough these are all things that all of us actually want but for this generation they're just their critical things for them and that's just what they expect so then from a leadership point of view they're going to be leading in that style as well and already starting to see it that's probably a whole different topic you could probably speak another hour on that though couldn't you generational leadership definitely the third final part of this is personal learning which is very relevant to everybody who's watching today is do people in your team undertake their own personal learning so do they actually do it themselves or are they constantly waiting for the company to send them on a training course now obviously these days they're not a lot not all companies do that but the opportunities to learn have never been easier and greater than today but that's a great indication of how committed a person is that they're doing their own personal development and own learning perhaps on their own time or at least initiated themselves because it shows I want to get better and also I want to make a better contribution to where I am and I feel it's a worthwhile exercise yeah so that's that's one I guess in terms of what you do with that learning that actually comes back to things like how the quality of putting training into practice how proactive I'm being to take the learnings from things like today and do something different all of those things are indicating how how engaged I am yeah okay so we can see this all coming together now the three C's which I'm assuming it's called if anyone does have any questions please feel free to type it into the chat box and we'll get through to those but how in terms of everyone watching today how does this impact them what should we be doing so we can then stand out as a leader okay fantastic so this is then starting to think about those watching their personal brand of course that word a couple of times how does that relate like personal brands really good yeah basically what it is is your personal brand is going to be shaped by how engaged you seem to others within the organization so we think about what a brand is a brand is basically a name and it's what you know it starts off as just a word and it's really it's a name your name Sarah Gonzalez that's that's your brand but it becomes more than just a name and into a brand soon as people start attaching qualities benefits and attributes to that word so when you're thinking about a brand it's what are all the things that people would say about me within the organization what are the words that more senior leaders peers customers those I lead what would they say about me so if I lead a team the personal brand that I have in the eyes of those who I lead is going to be a big thing that's going to drive engagement in terms of how emotionally invested they are but how emotionally invested I am in the organization and how engaged I am by through the conversations care and commitment that I'm showing that's actually going to affect my personal brand in the eyes of others in the organization and that's the thing that's going to drive the opportunities that I get are there things that are outside of your control as a leader that might impact this yeah look sure I think there's obviously major changes going on within the business that can have a big impact such as if there's restructuring or if you've got really difficult market conditions so the climate within the organization really challenging this make it harder to get results or if the business is going through quite a lot of change so naturally people feel uncertain it makes it a little bit harder with some of these things if we're not if leaders above us aren't providing a little bit of clarity around where we're going in terms of what the vision is or what the strategy is that makes it a little bit difficult in terms of the conversations we have and how proactive and curious we can be but it doesn't change you still demonstrating that no matter what it is I'm going to do the best that I can you're still picking through yeah so just okay we understand this now and we know what we need to do if we can sit here now we're listening to you and everyone online and we're actually pinpointing you know I've got someone in my team who is talking but they're not really talking the right tone or I can see areas that needs to be that need to be improved how do I then build engagement within my team but also as a leader to sort of make it all happen okay excellent look the that there's probably a lot we could do on this just in terms of today the number one driver of engagement is this word here okay which is culture so we know that culture drives engagement and engagement leads to to great results and great team performance so then if we bring it back to culture you know how do we build culture there's quite a lot of things we can do on that but the starting point for culture is leadership okay because the leader of the team is the person who creates a standard it's a person who creates the culture they communicate the expectations of what sort of culture that we need what sort of culture we want they role model those behaviors around the culture itself so people know what's expected so the culture of any team is a reflection on the leader yeah so what we're going to do is just is just bring it back to this now short of going into what are all the things I can do to build a great culture there's a lot of stuff you can read a lot of stuff you can do on that just going to keep it really simple in terms of a few things that those watching can do to help I guess engage their team a little bit more first thing I'm going to do is you're going to you're going to really care about your people yeah okay you cannot be a leader you can't build culture and you can't engage people unless you really genuinely care about people and that means caring about your team care about those you lead care about your peers care about your managers regardless of some of the behaviors that you see you've got to see them as people first and you've got to genuinely care that's what great leaders do so then bring in to some things that you can do to sort of help drive that inspiration motivation there's a great video on on YouTube that I'll get you to send to your viewers it's by Daniel Pink and it's called the truth about what motivates people the surprising truth about what motivates people so it's an RSAnimate video it's fantastic in terms of describing some things that leaders can do but what Daniel talks about three things that come down to that relationship between a leader and their team member the first is we need to give them ownership and these are things back to you you point around millennials as well these things are critical to millennials these are the things that they expect in order to reach their potential and if you can do these things they'll do great things for you so ownership means that they've got the opportunity to be self-directed so is that just giving them freedom? correct yep freedom and autonomy okay okay they're trusted they're trusted as an adult to make decisions so making sure they've got that freedom to be able to do the things that they need to do that's one of the things that we know is really inspiring and motivating for us it's like we're being treated like an adult and I'm being left my own devices to make a difference so I'm being trusted to take responsibility and make decisions that's the first thing the next is mastery now what mastery relates to is as human beings we all want to learn and grow so this is around making sure that people have opportunities to progress progress and learn sorry that's going to be low there isn't it so that's that's right I did actually sort of squat down when I'm doing it but yeah it's just about making sure that they understand and they have opportunities to do new things take on new challenges and they're getting lots of feedback and recognition from the team leader about how they are progressing feedback and recognition is a really good thing especially around the fact that we're growing and learning any little opportunity you can kind of say hey look the way you did that was was really good hey I've noticed today you're sad to do this and that seems to be a real pick up on what you're doing last week that's great and little changes in results or the way they're going about those things just pointing those out but also painting a little bit of a picture of where they can get to in terms of their own personal development and growth okay and the third is purpose so purpose comes down to making sure that every single person in your team is really clear of why they do what they do and where they fit in and making sure there's also a really clear purpose for the team so purpose for the team is why do we exist and making sure that why we exist has meaning that isn't just about getting the job done nor or getting getting the numbers whatever it is there's got to be a really really compelling why for the team it's always it's creating a cause that's what we call it it's creating a meaningful cause just um we've got a few questions coming through but I think this one relates to a lot of what you're talking about now and I think it might be relevant for a lot of people out there who are quite new to this so um and it's probably one question you've been asked your entire life how do you differentiate the main differences between a manager and a leader so these a lot of people might think as a manager it's their job job to give constructive criticism or something like that what's the difference and how does this play into leadership fantastic so really simple um the leadership's about people management's about things okay so they're two roles that that all leaders or managers whichever way you need to look at it need to be good at so when I'm wearing the the manager hat it's when I'm looking at structure process systems tools what are all the things that I need to put in place to allow people to be successful perfect so another good example that's like accountability how we look at accountability how we set up KPIs how we make sure that people's roles and responsibilities are clearly defined that's all part of being a manager leadership is around people yeah and that's around how do we inspire people and how do we challenge people want to be their best so it sort of plays into both yeah you need to do provide both management and leadership in order to actually get to these things okay great um are you right to go to some more questions before we wrap up for the rest of it so do keep your questions coming through and thank you for that one Austin um now we have one from Brian so when one is very busy how should one factor engagement in their daily schedule versus focusing on getting things done and this is a time management question which I'm sure appeals to a lot of people out there so great I'm looking for the answer to be fantastic so I guess there's a couple of things if if you are a if you are a leader so you're a leading team so how do I actually balance the leadership stuff yeah with getting my job done first thing I need to just challenge you on is to remember that leadership actually is your job so we still bump into that a lot it's like oh I've got to do this leadership stuff but then I've got this other stuff that I need to do yeah what we're going to do is actually just change that what we want to see that the people that I lead and the team that I look after is actually my primary focus so what we want to do is think about how I go about my day so that I reflect that rather than thinking it's extra stuff I do my job and then I do the leadership stuff because it means almost like they're two separate things so some really simple ways to do it is to just focus on the conversations that you're having with your people just wandering around just talking to your team and think about in those conversations that I'm actually having with my team how do I make that conversation more meaningful how in that conversation do I challenge them to take on some more ownership give them some feedback on how they're going which is around progressing and learning just even in existing conversations you know perhaps just inspiring them to do that little bit more and also how do I remind them of where they fit in how important they are and where the team's going so it's just trying to bring that into the discussions I'm having on a daily basis if I'm communicating via email or if I'm sending messages whatever it might be just bringing some of the leadership messages into those existing things so it's not extra work yeah the starting point is knowing that it is me that actually is my primary role and I guess if I'm a team member and I'm looking to show how engaged I am it's again it's all this stuff here it's just being really present it's been aware of it as well being really aware yeah and I think I've got some stuff from Corporate Edge in the past and for those of you online there's a survey tab down the bottom so if you want to click on that because you can also opt in and there's some information that Corporate Edge will send you afterwards regarding team management and the differences and the infographic as well so just tick yes on that so moving into that it's great all these questions keep our segue into another which is good so from Errolis I think what if you were showing all these engagement qualities and your leaders ignore or even worse they resent you is it them time to move on yeah it could be I mean look I guess there's probably one thing you would start with to begin with you'd probably want to seek some feedback so because it just depends on that might come down to whether you really are a culture fit so you might be doing these sorts of things but it depends on whether senior leaders are actually looking for those sorts of qualities because this does show that you're engaged but it might actually be more about the culture of the organization and what qualities they want and maybe it's not a culture fit for you as well because you want to make sure that you're in an environment where you feel you can actually be your best but if you're doing a lot of these things or feeling that you're doing a lot of these things and it's not really helping that it means that your personal brand isn't actually where it needs to be in that organization and maybe that's you need to move on the flip side though what I would actually say is I would go back and in terms of I suppose being proactive and curious is to seek some feedback so if you think you're doing the right thing but it doesn't seem to be having an impact what you do need to do is show some real humility and trust that actually seek some feedback from senior leaders ask them to give you some guidance on the things that you're doing that maybe a little bit over the top things you're doing that might be frustrating a little bit things that you're doing that aren't working and things that you are doing things that you're doing they'd like to see you continue to do so if you're not sure or it's sort of landing on deaf ears just seek some feedback and that just on that as well so how would you recommend constructively challenging a leader on that yeah I guess it depends on what you're challenging them on so you're talking about feedback yeah well there's a question here just in general but I think feedback is one way that you can actually sort of approach a leader and you can challenge them on what you're doing but there might be many other situations where you actually want to challenge them on something else and I guess if the leader is doing all this they probably should be easily to be approached I'm assuming but otherwise are there certain ways that you should be approaching situations like this yeah look great I think a couple of things you can do one of the things is when you're challenging senior leaders what you want to be doing is making sure that they understand that it's coming from a place of positive intent that it's coming from a place of that I genuinely care about the business I'm really committed to the business and I'm just looking to have a conversation about the business so that's why the tone that you use the words you use and everything is going to be really important in that regard but probably to keep it simple is to just start by asking really short open questions is a good way to do it so just in terms of challenging you may there may be something you want to say or something that you want to call out but a good way to do it is to just probably frame it up as a question and just saying say so what are your thoughts in terms of this scenario on this scenario or how do you feel this is going well look we've noticed a couple of scenarios where this seems to be occurring what are your thoughts or suggestions and maybe how we can handle that okay it's just sort of short open questions with a positive tone that's just raising some issues but it's making it very easy for the leaders to potentially respond yes as opposed to trying to make them look bad or look like you're just being negative and that's why it's just short open questions with a positive tone which is a good part of being curious and you're having conversations and you're having conversations you're talking about stuff that matters and you know just on here as well we've got Sanjay before we start to wrap up how do you challenge difficult people who just don't want to go beyond their job once again I think in some cases it's just a matter of it's time to move on for some people and they're not actually right for the culture which is why I'm glad we went into that culture side yeah look it's a look it's a really difficult one remember that we want everybody to feel that they can succeed within the environment and the leaders role was to create an environment for success but every individual needs to make the personal choice to succeed the big thing is people have different ideas of what success is and you've got people who have very high security needs and high certainty needs and they really just want it just want it to be a job yeah and that's okay provided the organization doesn't need that job or that role to change and grow so it becomes an issue if the company's looking to innovate if the company's looking to expand or the company's looking to become a little bit more efficient in the way they do things and then you've got a person in a role who's not actually coming along with that so what that means is then the performance of the whole team can start to be dragged down so what you've got to do is you've just got to make sure that you've painted a picture for that person obviously leading through change is the challenging thing but that individual just needs to know that you care about them you really do care you really do want them to succeed but at the same time they need to know that the expectations of their role are changing yeah so this this has been the expectation of the role in the past this is the expectation of the role in the future and they're kind of maybe somewhere in between and they need to know that so that way okay geez I know that maybe what I've done in the past isn't working so I've then got the choice of either trying to get on board and trying to learn how I can do things better and work with my team leader to make that happen or I know that I'm going to probably have to make the choice to move on or be asked to move on so it's about that communication piece isn't it yeah yeah and also the culture piece Sarah you mentioned that yeah whenever you're going through culture change you know it's a natural thing that you're going to potentially lose some good people you may lose one or two people because you know they're a really good effective person and worked well previously in their previous culture but they won't necessarily be an effective person for now okay great so we are getting towards the end now so thank you everyone for joining if you do have any further questions please feel free to either type them in the exit survey or respond to us afterwards and we can forward them straight on to John but you know wrapping it up you know we've spoken a lot about these and maybe you know the three C's ways that we can improve engagement but what would you like to say to everyone out there you know keeping in mind that people online right now are either in leadership roles and they're looking to enhance their standing or they're looking to move into leadership roles yeah what would you what piece of advice would you give everyone what I would be saying is that when as soon as you leave the fact that you're here today this shows that you are committed to your personal development you're committed to being the very best you can be so it's when you leave it's seeing that every moment that you have when you're in the office environment is a chance for your personal brand to shine this really is you this is your life we spend a lot of time at work so making your work a real expression of you and just bring that passion to every moment and there's just some ways we can do it we're going to have good days and bad days yeah there's just no there's no question about that but focus on what you're saying and how you're saying it making sure that you are you know bringing some care to all the little things you do and just making sure that you are demonstrating that commitment in important times and showing that same care for the teams that you lead great thank you thank you John always very insightful when we have you here with the whiteboard and I'd like to thank everyone online for joining it's been great having you online for the past 45 minutes if you do have any questions like I said or you want to find out more about John and corporate edge and the coach you may do please feel free to contact us directly otherwise we hope to see you at future business skills webinars where we'll be educating and sharing more information from subject matter experts thanks once again and see you next time