 That's it. Yeah. Are we ready? I think we can ease it. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, this is Right now our last scheduled budget work session We had a couple topics for today. One is to Loop back around on the fire budget Second item to talk about council staffing and what's in the recommended budget And that what other topics of interest to the city council and we'll also mention that we had our Final public meeting last night in district two Miss Bivens Councilmember Flores might have had the attendance record last night Right Anyway, we've received a lot of feedback a lot of input on the budget from those different public meetings We'll summarize that And bring it maybe to the work session On the 20th just so everybody can get an idea of the input that's coming in through that Through those methodologies So with that, I'll get up and talk a little bit about what's in the fire budget for the upcoming For the upcoming year. Awesome Is chief Davis here somewhere Here too, yeah, I may have a few questions as we go through this I'm just gonna try to summarize a little bit about the process and what's in the upcoming budget It's been as you remember this time last year we talked about putting a staffing study in place I'm gonna talk about some of the key takeaways from my standpoint and some of the challenges as we move forward and Then dig into what's in the recommended budget So to me some of the key takeaways from the city gate study The first one being we've got to fix the 9-1-1 system and so we're committed to doing that and I'll talk about what's in the recommended budget Also Adopting and is the city gate consultant said adopting a patient centric customer service measures whether that's response time and the type of response that we provide Stabilized services and North Fort Worth primarily as it relates to second unit response and Then prepare for future growth. We're gonna continue to grow City gate mentioned Far north we're gonna add resources in the far north and we look at As we grow in the future where to put fire stations I Think I've mentioned all this. I do want to say that When we started the study We invited medstar to participate and I'm glad to say medstar Jumped all in to be a part of the study Because it is a system that involves not just the fire department, but involves medstar and they provide the pre-hospital Don't when you think about it the ambulances in the pre-hospital care All right, so some of the challenges From the study that's the growth in far north Fort Worth. We're gonna talk about how we're gonna address that the paramedic delivery Both of medstar and we'll talk about from a fire department standpoint and Again, we're gonna fix 9-1-1 just a reminder of the Number of calls or the type by type the majority of calls are in the area VMS and That's just shows over the last number of years and as city gate pointed out It is a local policy choice And we will be bringing to you what some of those policy choices are in the upcoming year as it relates to response time And both what we're gonna recommend both in the area of fire, but also in the area of medstar I think this is maybe a little redundant. We'll be bringing to you again the response time goals We're going to do the 9-1-1 study and that's to look at first What we're doing today and then the long-term plan deals with do we Collocate do we consolidate and we address those questions in the future? That last part when we talk about EMS again in medstar Medstar is going through a process right now of looking at repartizing their calls right and the idea is to make sure that we get the right level of response to the most what I say acute medical issues and Then those that don't require a paramedic or don't require an emergency response looking at how we reprioritize those calls Again a little bit more we're gonna open that station chief winds that open that's in a couple weeks It's supposed to be that's correct, but we've had some delays due to supply chain issues Okay, I would imagine some time in late October. We should be pretty close All right, and then we're gonna add an engine company which was also recommended by City gate We're gonna proceed as planned with station 46 that land has already been acquired and that is in Southwest Fort Worth and Then we're gonna Keep tracking What's called unit hour utilization? Make sure it stays at or below 30 percent. That was a recommendation from city gate And we're gonna improve Excuse me paramedic Level delivery, we're gonna work with med star on Response times and what it would take to achieve certain response time objectives And we're gonna work with the fire department the chief and I have to already talked about is how do we Ensure we get paramedics on different trucks and we'll do that over a period of time and the that last issue there Was also in the city gate study we currently provide no subsidy to city gate So there is no money changing hands between the city of Fort Worth and Yeah, and MedStar and that start. Thank you and if we move to where we are essentially subsidizing or providing funds which Guarantee a certain level of service then we ought to talk about the governance and Whether changes need to be made to put the city more in charge of how that money is spent and Issue that we still are working with the chief to resolve we We describe it here as reassigned positions the study talked about loan positions and I've committed to the chief that we're gonna look at all those What we call whether it's loaned or reassigned and decide what the appropriate staffing level needs to be That's just saying that a different way The other part is the second bullet And I know we're currently in the collective bargaining agreement with The 440 and it's looking at whether we have options of converting some of the sworn positions to non sworn and Looking to do that over time Let's jump into the budget again, we use the city gate study and some of the Things that we knew we're gonna be in the report as the budget was getting prepared I think I want to slide. Let me go to this one So there's about 18 million in the budget related to recommendations from city gates On the left column is those are Directly in the fire department's budget in the recommended budget. So there's additional funds for regular overtime There's the engine company and far north for Fort Worth There's additional overtime to continue to fund the resources for the support to the police and the 9-1-1 We've got the firefighter of physicals We've got civilian positions That are in purchasing payroll protective gear so forth and Then we've got the hope team Editions and paramedics We also have money that's not directly in the fire department's budget But is either in non-departmental or in property management's budget because they're the ones that'll be delivering Some of those services the money that's not in the fire department's budget includes A set aside for additional overtime and we'll assess that during the year We've got money in there to do a study for the 9-1-1 system Let's see. I've got out of We actually have money that 2 million set aside is to look at whether we do support for MedStar during the year We've got money for the again the engine company. That's in property management. I believe that's for the apparatus We've got Also a contingency to deal with the loan positions and what can be converted to civilian in the budget as well and We are going to be hiring a Whether we call it a 9-1-1 director a 9-1-1 system administrator, but as I mentioned before we We need somebody that's going to be in charge of the entire 9-1-1 process from beginning to end There's also money in there for technology contracts and Extractors for fire stations, which would be in property management's budget Chief did you want anything to no, sorry? So as we talk about in the upcoming Budget year in the first half of 23, this is the way we Talk about some of the strategies is again getting right to the 9-1-1 system is our priority to fix that and That will be both hiring that position. I talked about as well as hiring a consultant to work with us on the process I Mentioned that we would be looking at adding that additional Engine company for station 45 Like it did mean to say this The fire department is almost fully staffed, right? That's correct There's an item on your agenda next Tuesday, which Authorizes 11 additional positions Because they have a recruit class That requires those to be in it. So I think We're happy the fire department Fire chiefs happy that we're at full staffing right now and we'll add those over hires in the in next next week's agenda item is for the second half We'll bring back to the council Response time policies We'll talk about How we develop a model for dealing with future fire stations And we'll continue to work with med star and fire on patient-centric Approaches to service delivery Questions on the budget. I have the first question would be in Looking back at the city gate recommendations one of them pertained to new FTEs and kind of creating More permanency around those 38 loan positions. How does that reconcile with those two fiscal those two quarters mentioned in the Ladies so what we're we've committed working with the chief on What understanding completely what has been loaned or reassigned? if that makes sense and then there are 19 sections that are not in operations that have a combination of sworn and civilian employees in them Example would be communication another example would be investigations or inspections And we want to get a complete understanding of the number of positions that are needed in each of those areas and make sure that they're Appropriately filled positions not loaned positions and not reassigned positions, but authorized Permanent positions and as part of that conversation which of those need to be sworn and which of those need to be civilian So I want to be clear on the 38 it's 38 new FTEs correct total There are who's on first there are how many new positions for fire So there's 16 sworn, but how many to how many toll in the budget there's 16 sworn, but how many New positions new that's what I want to know new positions total number sworn civilian Their uniformed is 16. Okay, and then civilian. I believe that they're seven in the budget. Yes civilian positions for a total 23 23, okay, so 23 new positions seven civilian of those seven civilian positions Are any of those currently civilian positions are these something that will have to be Eventually worked out through Digestion of this report and negotiations That the city is having as part of the new collective bargaining agreement If I made the way the budget currently is laid out the civilian positions will go to things such as payroll purchasing and Gear cleaning and inspection which is required by the Texas Commission on fire protection those those are all new positions as civilian jobs Okay, so my question is right now are any of those particular positions and contention About what is civilian and what is not? I don't believe that there is I've not had any Conversation or pushback from local 440 nor have I Had any conversation with so those are additive positions. They're not conversion of current sworn Civilian positions that are doing jobs that I think we all are in agreement that Civilian should and could be doing very well, okay We can add something Bell Yeah, I just wanted to add on the collective bargaining piece because we are in active negotiations now And we do have an article pending that would potentially allow us to use civilians in Dispatcher roles or fire inspector roles, but we're actively negotiating that right now with the local 440 Okay, and this is a sidebar We probably don't want to devolve into that but I'm drawing off memory which can sometimes be frightening But when I was chief of staff for mayor price, I remember Val and you'll have to remind me There was a lot of back-and-forth and this at this topic actually came up among communicators And the significant problem we were having back then even pre-covid and I want to say our HR director pushed back on the Civilianization of communications you would have to dig that up and talk with HR directly and O'Brien's no longer with us But I remember an active conversation with him about that at the time And I wonder if there's anything to demonstrate that we could pull back up now I am concerned about that knowing all the things we've gone through in the last year with communications I'm just letting you know that so that as you negotiate I think it would be my preference because we have these negotiations going on that the new positions that we add be Uniform positions and then as we go through the collective bargaining process those that Management and the 440 deem appropriate to be civilianized will become Civilianized in those any firefighter that's in that position could be used as backfill So that way we make sure we had a minimum have enough firefighters on the streets for four-man staffing But just for clarity though I'm waving my waving my hand. What is that? Okay, you win. I think you've got a mallet is Sam. Okay. Yeah, go ahead Gina or now That that did come up before and I remain adamantly opposed to it One thing that I want to say because I will have to leave at 11 is To put it in very very simple English. It's important to me that we have the number of new Employees in fire who use fire hoses, you know that way we know that we're talking about Firefighters not people answering phones I want to make sure that there is no daylight between what's being proposed and what the chief would ideally like to see I don't want to put staff on the spot But I feel like I got hoodwinked last budget because we were told about new positions And then only learned not all of those were functioning as I thought they would and so my my question point Blank, and I'll ask Val this Val the the number of new people The fire department wants to see what hoses in hand Is that the number that we see on this presentation today or is there a difference? I Would say that current state I think this is the number that we believe should be in the budget Acknowledging that there needs to be some more work on the sworn staffing side as far as what Chief Davis needs to baseline staff the other fire divisions I think in working and I've said this to David and Chief Davis as we're looking at fire staffing We do have to make sure there's enough sworn bodies available for their minimum daily staffing requirements That's a set number. We know we have to staff And by the time you look at that set number plus vacation relief positions It doesn't leave the chief a lot of room to run the other divisions And we think we need to spend some time on that. So I think they're the fire department does need some staffing Does need some staffing enhancements as we look at making sure the chief has staffing in the other fire divisions So right now in this budget as proposed there are 16 Firefighter FTEs being added. Is that correct? Okay, and where are those FTEs going right here? Yes, please Which will be at 287 and Harman right there in the Alliance Town Center area That is what accounts for the 16 or for 14 of the 16 Uniform positions the other two are hoping you're in the hope program working with the police Has there been any discrepancy in all the work towards this budget that there would need to be more than 16 new firefighters in the city of Fort Worth based on what you just said about that sounds like There is probably but you're still working on that and is that how does that reconcile because i'm still confused on what city gate recommendation was With loan positions and fts. It's gets really murky How many new firefighters are you wanting to have that you don't have currently in this budget? So mayor and members council Val and mr. Cook and I had this conversation the other day and i'm just First of all i'm very appreciative of the budget that was proposed for fire It's the best budget i've had in four years of me being here personally But since that budget was proposed We've got the city gate report back right and so now the question from a policy perspective with city managers office council and others in the room are How do we build that plan and what do we want to implement? How do we implement it? How do we fund it and how long of a time does it take us to get there? And I think that Is the difference between what's been proposed and where we are at today is in between time we've gotten this report back that Now raises Additional conversation and that's very helpful and i'll i know it raise got questions But one overarching theme i've had is that right now we're in this fiscal year budget We need to make decisions not just for fire but for the entire city and we've made some great headway We're almost there right But because the study has come out based on our ask last fiscal year What I want to make sure I don't do is mayor and this council probably agrees with me is that We don't kick any can to the next fiscal year if we can avoid that if there are things we need to quickly shift to do now Yeah second we like that okay Yeah, go ahead. Thank you for saying that mayor because that's What we talked about last year was making sure that we had this study in time to have the relevant conversations and so I Wholeheartedly agree with you. Thank you for making sure that that's on any other comment I want to go ahead. We'll just go around the table. Carl. Let's go first Just one question and i'm not gonna aren't chair quarterback exactly what positions That might be added, you know might be added to be civilian Or fte's now leave that to the experts, but for me, I would like to know best practices You know in in making those determinations Right so that when you come back before council you have the final product You know, I can have that context So let let me uh, I believe the resources are in the budget Right and if you just look at this Chart we've got a contingency for overtime and we have a contingency On that for the fifth line that can vacation relief sworn versus civilian positions So the money is in the budget What we want is a little more time to work with the chief and the fire department to decide Do we turn that money into full-time sworn positions? We turn that money into full-time civilian positions That's our commitment with the fire department. I believe the resources from a money standpoint the money's in the budget We need more time to figure out. What does that translate into? So back of napkin math the million dollars that's listed there you're referring to contingency vacation relief sworn versus civilian Is that the line item you're referring to that the money's in the budget? Yes How many firefighters theoretically we decided we wanted all that money to go towards new firefighters How many firefighters would you get out of a million dollars? I'm gonna do roughly 10. Okay. Yeah Okay, and there's overtime contingency in here too. So where's that that's in the top line. Okay Just curious why is it separated? Why is it fire department budget and non-departmental property management? well because We wanted the contingency in the not where we usually put contingencies is in the non-departmental account Okay, the first one is the 5.5 is direct allocation to fire Because we could do that formulaic To say it another way. There's a formula of over four overtime Okay Go ahead go ahead. I've got Include me whenever you can mayor. Okay, ellen go first go ahead Okay, so just for my clarification I Val made a comment About minimum mandatory staffing level and I know Our predecessor mayor montcreef Had long discussions about setting standard for that Is there any disagreement on that currently? and I guess the question I would have Based on our current understanding of minimum mandatory staffing level Is there allocation to achieve that? Yes council member if I can add There is not disagreement in that area and I think that's an area that chief davis Has worked closely with the local on And I think I can share in front of this group. Um, we've continued to work with the local 440 on a pending staffing grievance and we've been able to reach a resolution and I believe that The city and the local are all on the same page regarding four person staffing Um Chief do you want to have anything to add with that? Oh, ma'am. I think you highlighted that well Okay Go ahead. You have a question I think there is another expert here A dr. Stig not with fitch and associates. Did you have any comments that you'd like to make as part of this? He's read the report too and I think has some thoughts. God bless you Very good report Good morning. Thank you for having me. Um, mr. Manager. Thanks You know, we were hired by the local to Go ahead and do a high level kind of a companion study along with the city gate So just a little bit background before I uh get into my comments fitch and associates has been around for over 35 years At public safety consulting firm. I retired from the fire service You know have a phd and Masters in public administration, etc And before I joined fitch and associates, I worked with the international city county manager association And I was their senior manager over there firing ems consulting. So a little bit of background But as a high level overview, uh, what I will compliment is one this is uh kudos to the group because this is probably the most positive budget meeting I've I've witnessed and been a part of in a long time. You're certainly heading in the right direction I think city gate, uh, and I only did a high level review So I don't want to go too far over the skis, but I think they they have set you up well They've pointed you in the right direction They've identified some of the main challenges that you that you have as a city and organization But if I'll speak to the staffing specifically We kind of came up with a little different, um Strategy than than maybe city gate used but when you talk about your vacation relief and your relief staffing and new positions, etc Uh, you know, mr. Mayor, I'll I'll try to keep this one very streamlined to the deployed Uniform people personnel that are that are out on the street Looking at your allocated fte count And your your typical vacation leave and the long-term illness and sick leave used for each day what you really need and our Estimation is between 52 and 77 additional fte's In order to cover what that average leave is now as a manager pointed out if you've appropriately accounted for The dollars of overtime to cover all those vacancies then then your then your minimum staffing will probably be withheld But there's some other considerations about living With an over over burdened liability on your overtime With the impacts to the personnel and they're being called back to work more often fatigue things like that So a lot of agencies choose to just go ahead and hire the additional fte's To cover what your average leave and your experience is And in your case because so much of the overtime is actually at time and a half because of contractual and other obligations You'll probably receive a fiscal benefit as well as a personnel benefit for appropriately Staffing to the fte count if that makes sense that makes sense. Okay That's very helpful. Thank you. Okay, great So another couple things just to mention as I as I hear this is I think as an agency You guys are really well positioned to tackle these issues now When we looked at your growth over the last few years, you're growing at about 4.2 4.3 percent something like that as far as the call volume for the fire department and what to respond to so Projecting that out if that if that estimate over the last few years continues And we will say nationally the growth in ems specifically is between three and seventy three and seven percent And the lion share of your work like most cities and municipalities is is in emergency medical services So as that call volume grows You'll actually our estimates eight years from now in 2030 will actually be about 70,000 more calls and you run today to give you perspective about the complexity Of that growth model is that's the current call volume for the city of Orlando So you you can't What many of your peer large metro agencies have done Is not address the investment and reinvestment needs incrementally until they get to a point to where the Corrective action is such a cliff That the the check is too large and it really impedes addressing the real issues So for you all to address the issues now and start heading in the right direction Is going to be very important and ems as city gate pointed out Between the challenges with with med stars current performance. You're dispatching You know, you're on the right track for sure But ems is going to be a pivotal point for you to to get some policy direction On where you want to go and the reason I say that if you come back to the analogy of the city of Orlando You really need to adopt What your standard of performance is going to be so that your system experts and fire chiefs etc Will be able to manage the growth along the way in a systematic manner rather than The budget process re-exploring Each round so if you have any questions, I'll be happy to thank you And before other questions my reaction would be Am I correct in stating that right now? We have not arrived at what our standard of performance should be Both between med star between fire city of Fort Worth 911. Am I correct in that? Okay And and we hope to get to that place of agreement Within a certain period of time over the next coming two quarters Or next year Okay, but you feel like to get to that standard of performance, which you've also agreed is really important We're funding the right way to get there in this budget. I believe so. Okay, would would where's chief Sorry chief Would you agree with that like that? We've got the right resources in this budget to get to that level of standard of performance that we need to find yes, like I said, I um I think I stood before you last year and I as part of the staffing study I think we committed to the staffing study. I'm very proud of the effort and the work that our folks have put forward The staffing study and at the end of the day what I was asking for is planned um, I think that The work of the consultants have helped formulate a framework for a plan and now it becomes a conversation and a policy decision on when and how we get there and What we prioritize so I am a part of those discussions, but those are also You know collective so Yeah, and One more item. Sorry is when you look at the the million dollars set aside a contingency vacation relief sworn versus civilian position review um There's a likely scenario that we may arrive, you know, six months from now or whenever it is that we need 10 new Firefighter fte's correct How long does it normally take you to recruit 10 new fte's from the point of so that's that's a really good I appreciate you asking the question because the way it currently sits in fire and And please I'm sure is that the hiring process and onboarding process is is approximately a year to get from recruitment and background investigations through the hiring process through training and actually out on the street So it is a there is a lagging response to any type of From hiring to actually seeing a benefit is to directly answer your question and that's very helpful because What i'm just concerned about I guess is knowing how important that everybody agrees the standard performance is very critical And to get us to that place is going to take the year of planning, which I agree with If if we decide a year from now or six months from now Yeah, we're going to go with 10 and maybe more We're looking at a two-year potential window before we have those firefighters here And we still have an overtime significant problem in the budget So I you can react to that but that's a concern I have out and I know some of us have talked about that as well Gina, I promise I haven't forgotten about you. I'll get you just second Oh no Scary you leave that hammer at home. Gina. Don't bring that up here I I was glad to hear the Expert talk about the overtime factor because it was just baffling to me why we would just plan on Using overtime to meet the needs and so I'm glad that that's been addressed One thing I just want to state very clearly before I leave is you know, this council It's very obvious. This council is solid behind the fire department I hope that we can Everything that I'm seeing and hearing I hope it's really really true I don't want to have to have to play a shell game But at the end of this budget, you know session, you know, we're going to be found supporting fire And so getting there without any tricks is going to be real important to me And I I stand in support I will let you know on the other topic of council staffing support Or there was a plan that council member nettles explained to me Which called for 1.5 fte's per office and I support that I think if you try to have two full-time people We all have different needs and priorities are going to have to be established I'd rather have people up under my charge. And so that's just for the record Y'all may come up with something fabulous in my absence, but that's where I am now And thanks for letting me have this time in chief Val day. Thank you for working it out. Now, let's just see it through I don't like the idea that we get these fabulous studies like this for fire and police as we are in budget session But I do appreciate the zeal of this council not to kick it down the road and get it done now as best we can That's all I got. Thanks. Gina Go ahead, David No, I want to jump on your bandwagon. I think you're doing a fantastic job Oh, well, thank you, chris. I'm gonna get that on the record. I'm putting on a quote That is a quote. Okay Perfect. I was like work may I work? Okay And so I think where we're trying to get to and If it takes a year To get them through the system I guess another question is how much money does it take to get them through the training process? Because if we can approve the number of fire that we think that we're going to need within the next year now So that they can start the training process and then be ready to go We won't be two years behind a down the road. So I think it's important that Because once we actually get them on the budget roll won't be to the next physical cycle as a firefighter David We why the chief can address this and you've seen it for police. So they Do because there's going to be attrition as well So there are there is the ability to plan when we need whether it's a fire class or a police class And I think police is shared with you what they're they're having multiple classes during the year With the attrition. I'm not sure if you've planned one for the upcoming year Then it's just adding the number of people Addition to the class Thank you, um councilmember every budget year, um, there's a recruit class allotted of 24 people that are Budgeted for we have had bigger recruit classes because of the attrition that mr. Cook speaks about a recruit class to give you a Typical recruit class costs the fire department through the onboarding process the hiring process the training And that training is their salaries plus instructor overtime because we use a lot of that Is approximately nine hundred thousand dollars for a class. So it's real close to what mr. Cook said of a million a million dollars. So But I I think I'll stop there Would it make sense to add LTE's now? in addition to the ones we already have uh for the Forecast of what's going to happen the next year So that we're not like the mayor said two years behind Once we figure out You as the fire chief I'm going to stand here and I'm going to be very gracious in the fact that I really appreciate everything that has occurred so far this year I think that's a policy conversation. I've had that Conversation with mr. Cook and like I said, we are in a position where We have a we have a study. We have a plan. We've got some confirmation I believe from mr. Knight that we're on That that there's not discrepancy in what we see in the report Um, I I think next steps are a collective conversation for a conversation. I guess like today and I I I don't want to look at gift works in the mouth. I really appreciate what's been done and any Anything else I'm I'm I'm happy to be a part of I'm happy to take additional people I'm happy to work with the city manager's office to make sure that they're the right people But to the level that we do that I think that has to be a collective conversation And and I want to be a part of it But I also want to be a reasonable part of it and a professional part of it Chief the only thing I would add mayor and council too is I think that there's room in the budget because I keep looking at that million dollar line item And also funding that had been set aside Just in case for overtime that there is room in there to look at using that funding Um for fte's potentially As at least as a starting point Repeat that one more time bell In looking at the recommended budget we had put funding in non-departmental for Um contingency overtime. We knew the fire department was getting closer to their authorized strength So we're anticipating that overtime cost will Be able to decrease slightly. So we just put some contingency funding in And also contingency funding as we looked at the vacation relief ratio and making sure they had people Um to to fill that ratio And potentially looking at civilian positions, but there's four million that could you know We could look at potentially assigning those You know two positions and not setting it aside for other contingency reasons, right? Thank you So chief I've heard a few numbers and i'm just trying to do the math in my head But uh, I mean annually, what's what's our attrition number? So in my four years, I've been here and I've looked at this closely We're averaging approximately 35 to 36 people separate from the department from generally from retirement after tenure. Okay, so Well, it's 34 to make the math easy for me This year theoretically and or this coming fiscal year plus we're adding 16 sworn positions Tells me that we need to train at least 50 You know 50 firefighters this year and you indicated that we typically run about 24 in a class And that's what we're planning one class right now. So it seems like we're losing ground this year So councilmember i'll i'll clarify a little bit of that there is 24 that is currently budgeted annually in the budget Mr. Cook miss washington have Been very supportive in increasing the size of recruit classes using salary savings in order to get us to The authorized strength level that because of that lagging hiring We're always we struggle to always be right at that number because it takes us almost a year to get people through the process So other people retire Mr. Cook has pushed me over the last couple years to make sure that before We have a conversation about adding that we're able to actually hire too And I think he commented on that earlier because not only are we at but we're a couple over Our authorized strength and they've been supportive of that as long as I don't explode that number And so that's where we currently sit and it is with their support that we've done that We have increased our recruit class sizes using salary savings to make sure we're at full authorized strength Jared Thank you. Um, I I agree with everything that's been said so far. I wanted to do some math as well So david you said on tuesday will be approving 11 additional positions, correct? And then um, It sounds like there's we can get 10 firefighters for a million dollars And so I see at least four million dollars It sounds like we can get 40 firefighters and that that doesn't include the 11 so we could get to 50 with the money that's there Is that am I interpreting that correct? I think maybe just a little bit and I want to confirm to the upcoming m and c that will be on the september 13th agenda Is to temporarily increase the fire department's authorized strength by 11 Um with the anticipation that through attrition, they'll get back down to their authorized strength of 963 So, um, let's take the 11 off the table then if we still have four million dollars for 40 firefighters And I would be supportive of that Comment for no Okay, that's fine So let me back into We are completely Staffing the operations and vacation relief to the fire department to operate all the stations the question that we're still Wrestling with and we've committed to the chief is what? Amount of sworn positions and civilians need to be on the non operation side. So we're we're Completely staffing operations of fire Right. So the question is really What are the sworn Complement and civilian complement that are in the headquarters side of the fire department That's why we put some of these contingencies in there so we can have that evaluation and decide So when we're talking about investigations or plan review Do those need to be sworn positions? Do they need to be civilian positions and how many do we need? That's what's left for us to do And I I'll just clarify my sentiments I understand the administrative part of it in the headquarters positions part of it. Um, what I was referring to is firefighters and fire with fire hoses like Gina said and so The intention of the staffing study last year was for us to have the information that we need in order to Make a decision now because we know that it's a lagging Um decision that it's not just because we approve it in this budget doesn't mean they're ready day one And so I want to go ahead as a count as a council member And just lay it out there that I'm ready to approve the positions because I don't want to kick it down the road So that's where I'm coming from on that And I don't want to I don't want to keep studying it to death And then now we're six months down the road and we have to make a decision That's still going to take time for us to get to anyways Anybody else go ahead Leonard Yeah, just maybe jumping topics quickly on the two 9 9 11 line items, which are a significant number for us Can can we just talk about what exactly we're going to do and how that? Uh, is going to prepare us in a better way for the future and uh, what the timing of that investment is Do you want me to start sure so So in this particular budget it talks about the Fire assistance to the 9 11 dispatch center currently the fire department is using overtime in order to additionally staff Um, approximately 2.5 positions over a 24 hour shift A day in order to manage the additional call volume from the police Roll over queue to try to get calls at least answered in that fashion. It has worked very well Um, and there still Is anywhere between depending on the day of the week and the time of the day there's um Somewhere in the area of 150 to 250 calls a day that is being managed Through that rollover line. So that Is in there to that first line item is to help continue to fund those positions until a long-term solution is decided upon for that What is what is pilot programming? Um, where do you see i'm looking pilot second line um Because the paramedic pilots so one of the recommendations out of the city gate report is And I think mr. Cook spoke to it is trying to make sure that to the highest priority My baby's not breathing. My dad's heart's not beating type situation that we get Not just a provider but an advanced level provider in front of The patient in in in front of the address at the patient's bedside as quickly as possible There is there is that level of care and then there's the immediate underneath that where timely Intervention prevents it from escalating to the to the highest critical. So those two or three type of scenarios The recommendation out of city gate is we look at utilizing resources of the fort worth fire department To put paramedics More dedicated on a daily basis to certain engine companies in certain areas of the city that have a high risk factor related to Those type of events in that pilot program That money's put in there to pilot that to determine if that's feasible manageable and what the outcomes would look like there So that's what that's about And then I would say and then on the jumping down to the 9-1-1 dispatch consulting and 9-1-1 director Those are funds in there one to hire the 9-1-1 recording the system administrator We're not sure what their title will be yet But a director level position that will be our single point of contact for owning the dispatch process part of their role too will be helping us with Probably working with the series of consultants as we look at What are the best ways to handle handle the three dispatch centers right now? We have the fire dispatch center med stars dispatch dispatch center and the fire dispatch center And how do we maybe better work together? And whether we co-locate But at least find some ways to better coordinate and use potentially the same technology platforms There have been issues with us getting data between all of the parties at times So there's opportunities we think to explore efficiencies to potentially co-locate The three dispatch centers, but at least work together in a more coordinated fashion. That's helpful. So for that money, will that improve The issues we've had this past year of people getting through to 9-1 Yeah, I chief guy, I think that it's going to get us on the path to improving that chief And I my colleague chief nox is in the room too. So, you know, I I believe that what the Intervention that has occurred is helping it is working and it has the potential to be Grown a little bit to make sure that there is that Gap put in place to prevent a crack where somebody falls through it until A policy conversation occurs Something is proposed that is more of a long-term solution regarding Consolidation regionalization and and if I may take the liberty sitting on the Tarrant County 911 board I will tell you that that conversation is occurring in our office. They are not our office in those board meetings as well About regionalization and what it looks like throughout Tarrant County because there's over 40 public safety answering points Alone in Tarrant County and they're all seeking funding and they're all trying to figure out what the future looks like They all have staffing and retention problems And so there's a bigger county conversation as well as our Immediate conversation within the city. Yeah, is that fair? Yeah I think so and I would say just in closing that that as we look to be patient-centric and make sure that we're providing High levels of service delivery to our residents visitors businesses Making sure we have coordination with those dispatch centers As far as getting responses out and responding to callers is one of our key priorities That's helpful So I'm I've got an idea. I'll just at the risk of just throwing it out there publicly so I'll thank you for your kind of explanation there We'll just call it four million dollars and a fund that can be used a lot of different ways based on the policy direction of management and the council My observation is this is a very complicated issue And I'm I'm a little worried about this body being able to keep up with Um The need and paying attention to this enough if it's just Management and fire and 440 work on this for six months that come back to us So my suggestion might be for us to think we don't want to make a decision today is What if we we kind of create a real special committee focused on going through the city gate study? The fire 440's got their own study management Over the next six months like what are we trying to achieve in six months that relates to the use of that four million dollars? Are we going to add firefighters in the next six months out of that fund? Are we not? Um, nine one one could be at the table Not to throw Carlos under the bus, but he is our med star representative He would need to be included And we can decide amongst each other who would be on that committee obviously fire med star 440 in management, but I do think council needs to be included So that when they come to us with a policy recommendation We one are making sure we don't do this again next budget cycle that we've made some really important decisions Um, because it makes me feel more comfortable to know we do have a fund We could use for 40 firefighters or 16 more or whatever it may be We don't have to make that right now. I just want to make it really clear to the public We have the ability to pivot very quickly to do that that the council is going to be a part of that discussion In policy making y'all react to that um and sort of push back or give me better ideas Yeah, go ahead since I volunteered you And that's fine. You know i'm up to it. Um, I think that's very You know It's a very good suggestion Okay, I'm supportive of that and in fact the question that I was going to ask Really does pertain to comparing the city gate study And you know the expert study here, and I'm sorry. I forgot your name, sir But um, I did have a specific question You know about that when it comes to uh the unit hour Utilizations, okay, so we're if your study is recommending a certain number of additional FTEs All right City study is saying that those utilization should remain at 30 percent or below Have you run the numbers to indicate If we add You know a certain number of firefighters per what your study is supportive of what that does to those unit hour usations Yes, so I don't want to go to in the weeds, but yeah, and you know, I'm just yeah, I'm trying to get some initial confirmation so The first thing is unit hour utilization and the 30 percent is is actually something that that we've posited as a firm And we actually what's unique about our firm is We actually run ambulance services, uh, both both government and and private. So we know the business very well Um, the unit hour utilization is really about the people component It's about taking care of fatigue and and clinical decision making and and driving and all those kinds of things Health and wellness that impact personnel So you want to control that workload? um In our analyses and and I saw what city gate did and they looked at it across each hour of the day So you might have some peak periods where you cross that that 30 percent threshold That's not the exact Strategy that we support because we know there's going to be surges and really busy times and then there's also downtime So we take the totality of the 24 hour period and look at the unit hour utilization based on on what that means to the people It would become extremely costly for you to address every surge that that happens in the system So we kind of take it a little bit higher level With that said Your unit hour utilization is approaching needing to be addressed and certainly It would not be uncommon for a for a body like yours to really discuss the efficacy Of using large fire apparatus to run 7 000 calls, right because it's very costly to do so So one of the strategies to talk about is how do you control that and as you From a policy discourse explore your solutions for ems You're going to have to think through What's our best pathway of how we how we address that and the reason I mentioned that is And I mentioned because we run ambulance systems. For example, you know our firm we run the university health system in Lubbock To move from where med star is today on their priority one response times Which are which are underperforming their objectives all the way down to nine and a half minutes will be You know, I haven't been part of your policy discourse. So take it with a grain of salt But running those systems that kind of a move is a huge investment And I don't I don't see the solution of how you get from point to point b yet So that will likely cause the interplay between the public private partnership about Where you invest in that equation to solve the problem and and you know what their role is So with all that said your uhu is actually fine, but it will need to be addressed in the future What I talked about about the additional personnel and and I really uh, you know Just listening to the conversation. There's budgeted positions, right? Which is great that you're meeting the budgeted positions What what I'm trying to posit is that your budgeted position the fte allocation isn't correct To solve your overtime burden, right? So it's it's not that you're at capacity or you're budgeting to the point that you want to be It's the fact that that budgeting the fte count should probably be about 70 people higher In order for you to account for the average leave and reduce your overtime burden If I may jump in to because I agree with what you've said and I don't think the unit hour utilization Like you said doesn't really address the overall staffing issue and mayor to your point I think this is where it's helpful to maybe have a whiteboard Up and really kind of sketch out what the staffing is because even in the city gate report They did not spend a lot of time on making sure that fires minimum daily staffing requirements And vacation relief positions What that impact was on the budget and we can show just mathematically what happens when you you know You need 892 people By the time you do minimum daily staffing and vacation relief And out of 963 people right that leaves about 70 something people left to do the other business of the fire department And that's what we really want to focus on is once you staff 100 the vacation relief positions that minimum require daily staffing positions because without Bottoms and seats there you are paying overtime It's not always time and a half because in our collective bargaining agreement There's some overtime that's straight time in some time and a half But it's not having positions on the operation side that forces the overtime And so I hope that a small committee could look closer At the operation staffing and the vacation relief ratio But then what are the other staffing requirements for the other divisions because in doing the math Sometimes the chief does have 70 people to fill in all of those other roles And that's where david and ian the chief want to sit down to better understand What are those numbers because we we think it's something something needs to be adjusted All right agreed and in part that's why I asked the question I did because it just further illustrates the need for a better comparison I think between the two studies so we can all get a You know a better handle you know on exactly what are we comparing and evaluating. Thank you So one other maybe minor suggestion and it probably doesn't matter as much for us around this table because we understand What's in front of us? But I do think for the average person that and there's a lot of advocates specifically for fire That this is confusing to them and the four million dollars that you mentioned val Feels nebulous So I might offer a suggestion for consideration to management of in the fire budget Somehow find a better way to articulate what we're actually achieving here, which is we are now we now will have 16 new FTEs firefighters with hoses as jena would say That will go to station 45 and two to hope team in addition to that We have a contingency fund of up to four million dollars Which could be used to hire 40 firefighters 10 12 But that's a decision at policy decision that we need to make Before the next budget cycle in the next year there's some decisions we need to make Does that make sense? Yes, go ahead jared Thank you, mayor. I just had one bill to your idea. I love the committee option I wonder if it would be feasible to add a few positions In the meantime, maybe 10 5 10 to get us going on a training class and then as the study goes We could add on to that And I think I don't disagree but based on what I heard chief davis say We could still do that In this next class that's a bit because right now you already have your next class identified, correct We have a class we have a class in currently right and the The civil service list is expired. So we are planning a test that test is scheduled for the end of this year and The first of the year. Yeah, and so we anticipate by spring. We will be able to start the next class And we we managed that class minimum 24 right and then we adjust it as budget permit Thank you. That's so that you see what I'm saying. We have some time a little bit That's why I was trying to put a finite period of time on this look back to say because we could theoretically get Say to chief we want you to have a class of 30 or 35 To based on this discussion. We're going to have Any reaction to that? No, okay. What do you think val did that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense and I want to Give credit to david too because as we're building the budget It is not very often that we set aside contingency money and idle money is what we call it in our office Um, and so I do want to be clear It was really a big move I think for us to even set aside that contingency funding funding, but I think we recognize that there may be We may need to make some movement After having the city gate report presented to y'all And so really that's what it was there for we weren't sure if we would need to do something with overtime after the city gate study Or look at positions, but I think that it was um It was a good approach I think for the city manager to take that because again, it isn't very often We set money aside like that. I couldn't agree more in many ways It's just how you're making sure you're packaging that to the public and to us around this table that it is significant You don't like money trees. No offense And so this is a money tree in many ways for us to kind of determine and make the best decisions on behalf of the residents And also our fire department Anybody else? Yeah, that's one thing And I like the idea too. The only thing that really concerns me is on this, uh, three million dollars Is that currently we are actively using the overtime budget And so if we pivot in six months and say we're gonna take that money and do ft ease with it Do we have some more money to put in there for overtime because we probably still would need overtime budget that kind of Scares me a little bit. Sorry bell I'll comment too I'll just weigh weigh in on that that that's going to be the chief's responsibility And the idea that he doesn't have to have the uncertainty of overtime I think will be a good thing, but it's going to be up to him to work that budget I think we're equipping him with what he needs financially and i'm just real Happy about it and want to thank the mayor for driving this so that there's you know, there's everything is Above board on the table and we know where we're going And I think in having a little group look and later report back here again, we can show mathematically Um, how that works out and on a daily basis the chief can show you The numbers, you know, how many warm bodies he has to meet that 892 requirement And then what he has left and we can see where on a daily basis He's having to pay overtime out because he doesn't have enough staffing and operations David, did you have anything? Yeah Anybody else? I'll turn it back over to david then All right, so for are we ready to go to the next item? Are we ready to go to the next item? We got clarity around the table any other questions? Yeah Okay The next item was council staffing I think mayor pro tem bibbons already jumped in on that one We provided a budget a budget response There's additional let me just describe what's in the recommended budget and what some of the conversations have been The recommended budget includes Additional money in the communications and public engagement budget to support council in a number of areas Directly in the budget. There's an additional Administrative assistant and the reassignment of another position. So two new positions being assigned to city council And then has has as has been discussed The availability of part time For each council member or in turn so we call it a part time or in turn position Um as part of the budget and I think that's what mayor pro tem bibbons was referring to So that's what we have in the budget related to council staffing questions I'm not gonna make a comment on That I do have a question I don't know who compiled the data for the district three numbers Who did that can I that's from human resources can they come up? Yeah, I just want to As you're coming up I I just question a little bit of the veracity of those the numbers. I'm just talking with Katie my district director as well as myself. I just have a question. You only pulled the district three at forward text, right? That's right. Um I would actually be interested in what those numbers look like to the michael.crain Email address given my previous position a lot of people email me directly As part of that. So I think that might be a more accurate of how many emails we're totally getting into the that also the veracity of the Uh, the number of calls because again people have my phone number from the previous position So they're not calling into the office. They're called. They're texting you're calling me So I just want to put that on the record to make sure those numbers are more accurately reflected And that's always applied to me too. So let go michael's sentiments We get them from all sides I need a clear understanding of The um the positions David okay, you mean the in the budget? Yes. Well Yes, so in the budget response What we described is there's an additional new position So an additional full-time person in the budget to support council In addition to what's there now There's also a reassignment of a position that's under Whitney Right. I'm looking over there. That's dedicated to the city council In addition to A new position and a reassigned position We're making available resources for those council members who want it to of part time Um part time positions you can call them interns or part time positions for city council support Okay, and That would be for physical 23 started in october 1 correct and that That hiring our appointment will be at the city council level. Yes Okay, and the hours Are not to exceed What do we I can't remember what we built in there, but It's part time So it's 20 hours a week on average is what we built into the budget or what you see quoted in the budget response okay, uh so So I would it could fluctuate so it could have there might be some weeks where it's greater and some weeks where it's last But that's the average. Okay, we've calculated And it can't go over 30, right If it goes over 30, we need to make sure that we're aware of that because there are some benefit regulations That would require us to monitor the affordable care act requirements So it goes over 30 in one week. You'd want to be mindful of that in a future week So it has to balance out our average out appropriately. So what what is the threshold for? benefits So the threshold for benefits is is full time for these positions And I'm gonna look over to Nathan to make sure that that's accurate. Yeah, so 30 hours a week So what our district directors when they was uh council a it's in prior to what we did in the last cycle Recently in providing the insurance mechanism how were They able to do 40 hours without the insurance No, they they we converted that because they're they were called out specifically in our prs as at will employees So they were called out differently. We had to amend Yeah, yeah, we had to amend the hours amend our prs and amend the Yeah, yeah Yes Of there there's a term in government called at at the pleasure of And what that means is, you know, there are certain people like council Who can hire folk at our pleasure? And we can fire them right then and there and at the pleasure of it is a whole different ball game But when we made the district directors employees, it gave them benefits access to benefits now from for my information Diana correctly or from wrong Once you hit 30 hours you're full time. So you really have to watch that But part time people very seldom have access to benefits. That's correct. That's correct Okay Go go. No, please my real question is how Why can we do what we've done in the previous with the council a Are you looking to extend part time benefits to part time input or benefits to part time hours not not hours So like a full time position Is that your more than 20 hours? Okay, so you can do more than 20 hours more than 30 hours Okay, if we do more than 30 then it does have a then we would just need to amend the the impact and assess Because then that could Regulate our requirement to extend benefits I just want to go on the record Um, if we're going to do that if we're going to make if if we're going to extend the hours that they're going to work as a full time employee, I think That is a different discussion that council needs to have because I personally will not support Giving them the extra hours and not giving them the benefits that that come with that So in other words making them what we were before which was a director without benefits, correct Yeah, correct. If we're gonna if we're gonna make them full time. We we do it right Go ahead. Jared. Okay. Awesome. Um, I agree with that completely. I I think it Um, is a discussion about capacity and what does it look like to provide adequate staffing levels to represent the large districts that we do and so I would be supportive of Two full time with benefits, but diana you sent me some information I think it's also in the ir about other cities comparable size that also have multiple staffers in council offices Can you just speak to that? Yeah, I don't have it in front of me, but I know that in january of 2022 there was an ir that was put forward by the planning and and data analytics director at the time that just showed The staffing of other cities. I think san Antonio houston dallas and it was kind of all over the board Some had shared resources and then some others had dedicated resources I don't recall all of the details off the top of my head, but I know that it was Um, it was varied and then some had very limited resources. So And the interesting thing about um, the report that you shared, um, some cities gave council members Operational budget in which they can make staffing decisions with benefits including that budget So it gives council members autonomy to really have an operational budget to adequately represent and serve the districts they represent So what direction do y'all want to give management on this? Lots of good dialogue, but I think there's a little I'm personally a little confused So i'm sure they are too So I jump back in first of all, I want to say thank you For getting us to this conversation. So I don't want you to think that we're ungrateful anything but I want to I want to make it make sense the first time Go around and so and I know they're and I don't know who they are But I know there are some around the table who doesn't need the extra person And we understand that uh, and so I don't know if that makes a difference budget-wise and I well will everyone's not doing it and so um Maybe that's a discussion we need to have who is who doesn't want it and then they might decide How budget we'll be able to budget this out for the what we want elizabeth um It's weird when we're not in lockstep on something What does this look like? No, um I hear what you're saying And I think that that's fair Because we've all kind of had conversations about what we need what we think we need and and what we don't And I think some of that is reflective upon it has nothing to do with who we currently have in the position But how our districts operate and so When you look at the snapshot of like calls to emails and I just did a quick Glance of it. You can see that like linard's district seems to be very call heavy, right? They like to pick up the phone and they like to call District nine loves to send emails, right? So we're very email heavy But also how I prioritize that as a counsel person Is different than say how linard does it or jared or michael and kind of Where we think government or how we think government should work for the people is also unique amongst the nine people sitting Around this table and so I think having the option You know, I exercise that option at I employ one and a half people in my office Say michael chooses to stick with one For philosophical reasons or staffing reasons, whatever that is At the end of the day We have to answer to our budgets as a counsel person and there is some difference between what we do and what we don't do And so I would say Budget for all of us to have whatever that is that dollar amount and then give us the discretion to determine for our district what's best and for our you know Political beliefs or you know, whatever it is you get to make that determination. I think that's probably What I would feel most comfortable with giving us that flexibility and not Mandating it but also not penalizing us if we need it Okay, so let me ask this the proposed recommendations from management That relate to communication support and administrative support that I know are not dedicated to your offices Are y'all wanting to scrap that idea completely and just focus on a new employee In your offices that are dedicated to you the only the only warning I'll give I'm not going to speak to administrative support I will speak to communication support I would argue that the type of person that needs to be hired Is probably a different type of hire than you would do for this this new staff additional counsel aid And you're not going to get that additional communication support and I think that would be a mistake I think we have the capacity to hire somebody that would work up underneath renais department That it really serves us all well based on this, you know, short job description that'll get fleshed out I just want to make sure we don't miss that opportunity and then the other thing I would argue is um the administrative support There are some aspects of this that maybe you could assign within your new person But it's different. It's it's hard to say because sometimes these administrative roles Is a learned skill and depending on who you're hiring in your office You may not find that caliber of person that you want in the new counsel aid I just I guess everybody's going to have some different need and I'm sure hr and david are any clarity on Is this recommendation out? So I'm just that's my comment. I mean, I got this is a decision y'all need to make amongst each other Um, but I have been on the other side of that and and know how I'm very well aware of the needs of council offices and how they differ Are we having a picket either or work today? Well, I think that's I think that's we don't have to decide today I just think we're going to have to get to david and let him know for this budget what we're looking at I definitely think that we still need the communication. So if I'm not if I'm hearing it right, it's three So it's one that's been created one that's been reassigned and a third person that's going to be in the communications Yeah, we've increased staffing and communications And we have so we have more resources there and thank you mayor for pointing that out I don't think we would change that that would stay. Yes. And so the to me the question is If we're going to assign an additional staff member to each council member Then my suggestion would be we do that and then we Eliminate the one that we would add for What I'd say jointly does that make sense? Yes. Okay Okay Yeah, I know what the line item is and make sure we're all comfortable with that. Yeah And then just remember we have this beautiful new building we're going to move into And this is not budgeted there So your district directors may throw something at you when you go back and say they get to share an office I know They're all celebrating that that's going to change but I just I'm just letting you that's one thing Those are just little things that are going to come up as we move into the new space We can make room for them. Okay, and David Are you including in the budget the two new two new districts as well? That little portion. Yes, actually there is money in the budget, but we would have to Augment that too because I think all we included in the new budget was One each that now we would put that in there. Yeah Thank you for pointing that out So we're leaving the table that We're not going to get the two administrative positions to share council, but each council person will get additional person Go ahead elizabeth. Talk it out Uh-huh. I can tell if your brains couldn't see me waking up. Yeah the coffee hit Um, lucky lucky for david. It didn't hit before fire. So I think you were good So The position that we had that we were creating for admin walk me through just very high level What that particular admin position was going to do? Thank you I want to inform decision Yeah, so very high level the one that we were recommending to add to be a shared resource Was to help alleviate some of the call volume or some of the administrative tasks from your council from your district Your council leads now So they could focus on some of those higher level more complex Items that you deal with as part of your role. So it would be hearing that. Thank you. I appreciate that hearing that description Um, I would be comfortable scrapping that position because I think Whatever new person that you bring into your district office would handle those calls and those Um, and I hear your concern about like the administrative portion, but it doesn't sound like I mean it it administrative but constituency services based and I think that is more appropriate at a council level and so My position is I'm comfortable with scrapping that one position keep Keeping the community new communications position scrapping the position that Geanna just described to us and then adding the Point five to council offices to To my bad to to what? To full time So you'll have your district director and you'll have a new position that is full time with full benefits working for the city of Fort Worth Here's one thought I have on that is I'd like some discretion within the office for us to decide what that pay those pay levels And I think that's key here. Yes, because I make sure that it's almost like to me If you think about other, you know government levels If you have a district or a legislative correspondent or somebody that may There's probably a report to your district director. What does that pay look like you have a discretion? And that's probably a pay range that deanna's going to have to come up with Is that you look like it is a pay range that we'll have to come up with it It's one of the areas that I probably would struggle with the most And I'll I'll just kind of explain why in a previous city that I worked at We did operate with the ability to allow council of budget And what we created was inconsistencies in pay And so we would have probably more defined structures so that we don't have that issue I think we can do that and I think you can create a A position that the exact position that works I'm just I'm just I'm trying to articulate to this table make sure I'm getting it right Y'all don't want necessarily two district directors You want to keep your district position to have a new position that would kind of report to that district director? Yes, yes, okay and that ability within a sliding scale or a pay range For us to say we want someone really really but it's going to cost this much We also know then we have this much left over to do that other position and we figure out how to make it work Much like it happens in other government offices on the hill, etc Michael just so I'm clear because I think we're on the same page Um, we don't want just the flexibility for the new position, but also the district director So I'm going to use round numbers. Let's say that number is you have a hundred thousand dollars for for payroll Now you can in your Office you can take that and say I'm going to hire one really Amazing, you know superstar that like I'm going to hire a michael crane Get that on record michael Right, but but but we have that we get to great Um giving yourself a pay raise over there um so But we have that ability and say, you know, you prefer to have You know, however, you want to do it But that set budget because right now all of our district directors make the same and I get that that there are pay Potentially pay disparities But I would argue that that's my You know, that's for me to handle with My employees right like if I have to be able to articulate to them and if they don't like it They can leave so not to be able but I mean that's how our employment system is set up and not to belabor this but And not to make it difficult for you and hr deanna, but You brought up earlier elizabeth. We our district has different different needs So different person in different spots, etc. And that flexibility would be helpful If it's a pay range, whatever, but at least we have the flexibility So I think if y'all are okay with this, let's keep talking deanna like we're gonna solve it all right now We've got somewhat of a direction. Okay, and then we need to pivot to property tax evaluation history that's in this Think but let me say this really quickly. I have to leave like now to go to a lunch So are we coming back or are we because this is a big conversation on property tax? What are we doing here? What do we think Come back at 115 ish 130 and then is that okay for 45 minutes? Is that okay with everybody? Yeah, okay. Let's let's recess and come back perfect So thank you Whitney. Thank you for working on it too. So for y'all that are trying to