 The first thing I did when I got the books I went to the index and I said, okay, here are all the near-death experience researchers I've talked to are they in there? No name after name after name none of them in there You know a couple years ago. I interviewed Jan Holden from the University of North, Texas who along with Bruce Dr. Bruce Grayson from the University of Virginia two of the most prominent names in near-death experience research They compiled this book the handbook of near-death experiences mainly for People in the medical community so that when they encounter someone who comes up out of a cardiac arrest and said hey I had this incredible experience. They can be at least Familiar with what to tell them at the time they published this book Michael in 2009 They had over a hundred peer-reviewed papers that they included in their book by now There's over 200 peer-reviewed papers. I don't see any of that in your book I think it's a part we'll make it well Look, yeah, I don't have to cite everybody that's ever written on the subject, but you don't cite any of them You don't say I'm excited. Oh, yes. I've been gone. I'm all Sam Parnia. Who else? Yeah. Yeah, yeah You misrepresented both of them, but you at least cited But anyway, let's back up for a second and This I'd have to say you know Evan Alexander. I want to talk about him, but technically he's not a near-death experience researcher He's a Harvard neurosurgeon that had a near-death experience and wrote a book about it, right? That's right, but he knows a lot about it. He knows as much as you do much as I do because he hasn't published peer-reviewed papers I'm looking at the science a peer-reviewed paper thing is a that's a red herring I'm not denying that people have real experiences You're you're treating this as if the experiences represent some other dimension I haven't a place to go and that is not at all what these Peer-reviewed papers indicate all they say is that the people that have the experiences have very real experiences, which I agree Experiences these people have are very real people can get that from ayahuasca from ecstasy From deep meditation and so on we know this you can get it from brain stimulation. You can get it from oxygen deprivation I mean you think you seem to think it's something beyond that Well, here's where I would focus on is on the research on the science I don't think peer-reviewed is a red herring per se I think when you look it's the best means we have right now in science for policing science finding out if people are doing good work What are you what papers are you talking about? I'll get to that. Okay, so I'd say you're not a doctor So when we get into medical fields, I Like to look at doctors. I like the near-death experience research from a guy named Jeff Long Radiation oncologist, right? So this is a guy who works with death and dying patients all the time Also happens to be a near-death experience researcher Compiled the largest database of near-death experiences Analyzed it scientifically with a scientific survey and here's what he says I'll pull that up for you right now How do they sort through it? How do they know what research really holds up out there? The key thing is to know a few of the consistently seen elements of near-death experience That are the strongest evidence for their reality