 OpenShift, a working group documentation subgroup meeting for February 8th. The link to the notes is in the meeting chat if you could put your name in the attendance section so we know who was here and who was available to hear some of the information being discussed. And that helps us to know maybe if someone wasn't here that we need to reach out for something that was discussed that relates to something going on. And take a quick second to look over the agenda and let me know if there's anything that you want to change. And again, this is our February 8th, 2022 meeting. Nope, it looks good to me. Let me get the code of conduct in here. That was the only thing I was going to ask about. So there's one thing I need to add. Okay, anyone else have any suggestions, modifications to the agenda? Sounds like folks are good with it. So let's start out with some questions. Oh, questions. Yeah, good. Are we going to talk about the, you know, operators at all? Yes. We'll be talking about operators. That is down, see, I think it's in, it should be in here if not. Yeah, so there's new subgroup for operator catalog. It's the third item or second, or third item, yes, third item. So we will be talking about keeping the dev slack channel of Vadim signed off the other day on basically, we can get rid of it or fold it in, but there's really nothing to fold in. Yeah. So are we going to rename, are we going to rename the user one to open shift dash okay D or are we just going to keep open shift dash user that was, I think that's a question for this group to decide right now. So it wasn't, we had a variety of opinions, and I think it was depending on if, if Vadim did sign off on closing the dev one. So Vadim is more than happy to do that. Elmiko left. Basically everyone's been bailing out of the channel except for me and a handful of other folks. So there's really no one even there. So that would be the question for this group is what to name the other slack channel that is currently open shift users or keep it the same? What do people think? The only thing, the caveat I would have is now that I've been away for two weeks and come back, I'm not sure we can rename and not lose the history. So if, if there is a history that's important to people there and if the Kubernetes folks say changing the name changes the, is it basically creating a new one and losing the history in that then probably sticking with open shift dash users is probably a good thing. And I don't know the answer to that question, but that popped into my head while I was on vacation. Yeah, good question. If that's not the case, I think it's good to get the name OKD exposed. So. Yeah. And do we care about the history there? Not really. I mean, it's an ephemeral platform anyway, really. No, I don't know anyone that really goes back to look for stuff. Yeah. Do we actually have history? Do we do someone pay to keep the history? Because if you have a normal account, you don't have this having a look now seems it does because it does go back quite a while. Yeah. It might. So that's that's the only thing. I, these are the things when you're on a hike and you're not supposed to be thinking about work that pop in your head and that that's so I will ask that question and if of the Kubernetes admin folks for that channel and if it is that it has history that is semi important. The other thing is that if we change the name, we might lose the subscribers to people who are already in that channel. So that's what was feeding the history and people who are already in it. So I will ask that question. And if we don't lose either of those things changing it to OKD, is that the proposal? OpenShift dash OKD. Right. I think one of the questions to ask is, is there actually any OpenShift support provided in the channel? Because by calling it OpenShift, you be sort of giving the impression that there is OpenShift. So if you did have a customer, OCP customer, would they expect to get responses from that channel? I personally, I like the idea of having OKD in the name to actually show it. But whatever we do, I think we need clarity because I mean the sort of strap line is discussion of OpenShift installation and usage queries, sorry, questions, issues. And we actually tell them for OKD, go elsewhere. Yeah. So we do know that Mike, Andrew Sullivan, and a handful of other folks frequent that channel helping folks out. Whether that's in their official capacity as Red Hat employees is not clear to me. Maybe Diane has more insight into that. It's always a spare time thing. But I do think there are a number of OpenShift customers that go there. And it's not a bad thing in my opinion. It gives branding from a Red Hat perspective to OpenShift in the Kubernetes space that we like to have. So sharing that one channel with OpenShift and OKD is, in my mind, optimal. And then we only have one stop shopping and we do get some recognition that OKD is there. I'm wondering, and I haven't done the research, if we look at something like Rancher and K3S, are there two separate channels? Is there a Rancher channel in Kubernetes? Does anyone have the channel open? Yeah, I can look real quick or if someone else has it open to us. I just want to Kubernetes and I. Is that? There is a Rancher channel. Yeah, and K3S is its own project. So there should be a K3S one there. So that's the separation of duties. And OKD probably will never be a CNCF project. There is no separate K3S. There isn't. As a matter of fact, if you look at the Rancher channel, it says all things Rancher related, including Rancher sub-projects like K3S. So we could also change what's in the description, too, in the header. Right. So does it make sense to keep it open-shift? Since OKD is open-shift and OCP is open-shift, does it make sense to keep it open-shift users and just change the description, as Diane mentioned, to just say discussion of OCP and OKD and all other installation issues, blah, blah, blah. And all other flavors of open-shift that we make up as we go along. Because then we're not committed to it so much because we are trying to direct people to use the discussion and get for stuff so that there's a searchable, grouped history on topics and things like that and tagging and whatnot. So maybe we don't spend too much time on this, you know, and focus more on getting people to replace where we want them. We can also put a link to the discussions for OKD in the description at the header. I think it is. I'm popping around now. Yes, it is. Yeah. I think we said for OKD specific help, which maybe there's a better way of phrasing that. Yeah. Oh, it looks like I have edit capabilities on that. So I can edit as we wish. So do I, actually. It turns out so. Yeah, cool. So, yeah. So the question would be to the admins. Yeah, and I put that in the docs. Does changing it lose the history and does it lose membership if we were to change them? But before we even have to ask that, what is Strupple Vote changing the name? Yay or nay? That was good. You think changing the name? Yeah, there's, if changing the name, there's 200, 2,894 members. If changing the name loses those members, then no. Do we want to if, regardless of that aspect, do people want to? Is there a need for a desire to change the name? Not the description, but the name. I guess the discussion is do we want people using that channel for OKD? And are we going to have people that are going to track it and respond? If the answer is yes, I think we want OKD in the name. If the answers no, we prefer people to follow the link and go to the discussions forum. As we have in the description. Then we possibly want people to not have OKD in the name. Well, don't feel we have matrix now too, which is like, okay, so now we have another. I want to know why we're doing that as well. It's, well, it's because so much of the Fedora community is moving. And I think that that's it's to try to be on par with our Fedora coro less underpinnings and with that community as well. I tried to follow the link to log in there and it told me that my domain wasn't supported. Well, so again, anything that has a barrier to entry. So I mean, if the Fedora community are there and you want to support them, I think that's good. But trying to get new people that have to fight signup processes to seek to get questions. Isn't a good idea. This is just if there's something on the topic that we want to rewrite that in some way. Obviously, Jamie and I both can edit the topic and the describe the description. We can we can do that because back in 2070 Sarah and I did this. So I'm not saying that it doesn't. But I can't see any way to change the name. You can only archive. So I think our discussion about changing the name is kind of moot. Yeah, it's kind of moot. It's not in the settings tab. Yeah. So we could leave it open shift users get them to archive the other one, which is or or I think I can archive it or Jamie could archive it. But I think we'll ask the admins and let them know we're doing it and leave it as it is. It'd be nice if you could merge the history of the other one into this one. Yeah. I don't know that there's much in the dev at this point though, right in terms of the topic. The actuality is not quite as black and white as we're suggesting in the topic because there's a lot of OK D stuff, which is identical to OCP. And, you know, Vadim will, you know, if it seems that way to him, he will suggest, you know, moving a bug report to the OCP bug zeal or whatever. And so some of the OCP discussion would also be useful to OK D users. You know, slash admin people. So maybe the maybe this actually is. If there's maybe there's a better way than dash OK D dash specific, but maybe the description actually is OK or the topic actually is for the most part correct. You know what I mean it's like if you want something specific to OK D go to the discussions. If you want if it's something that could be solved by either of them. This is as good as places any. I'm too much because we're 17 minutes into the meeting. I don't want to spend too much time on this anymore. And I don't know. I've been sharing my screen. So I think we also someone, whether it was Jamie or Vadim mentioned in the description for a dash dev that it was being depreciated. So I think what we do is we give it a month and then archive the sucker and that way we don't lose any members. We keep these and then maybe I can periodically go into the dev and just put a reminder. Please migrate over over the next month every once every Friday while I'm having coffee. Remind people to move to dash dev and then at the end of the month get the cuba kubernetes folks to archive it. But people will just move over to dash users. So I think what I'm putting on the table is leave it as is. And the depreciation notice is in the dev right up. And then if I go in and periodically say hey this is being depreciated at the end of the month it will be archived. Maybe I'll edit the dev one saying it's going to be archived at on what is February 28th the last day of the month. And then go for that. And then we can move on in the agenda. Jamie if that works for folks. I'll pull vote show of hands. Does that work? Where's for me. All right. Excellent. Let's move on now. To our next item here, which is the code of conduct. I did send an email out reminding folks one more time. The deadline for comments is February 15th. This breeze of interesting question Sandra brought it up and it actually relates to a couple of things we have on the table, which is that. Then you can go ahead and end your screen sharing and then that way. We talked about this before contact email addresses. And what our what are our options for contact email addresses related to okay D. So, can do we have Diane the ability to ask. That the mx for okay D. I'll point to a mail system that we can use. The mx records, which are for folks who are familiar mx records are like the DNS records that say where domain gets its email services from. Yes, but I think I'm sure we could figure it out. We're all technical enough to figure out how to get that working. I think what from my understanding of codes of context and the person to contact that needs to be usually that is someone in the legal department. It is not or it is a jointly held email address. I mean, I'll have to think about it because I wasn't thinking about having a contact person. That's always been the sticking point is who's going to answer and who's going to adjudicate and manage all of the. And if anyone has an issue. So, I think what we really need is something is a. I don't have a good answer putting this in as a task for you then. Yeah, thank you and. I think it could be we could have like chair at. And it could go to all, you know, Jamie and myself and and Vadim and we'd all get notified. It has to be confidential. So there's there's something so I will ask the legal team. And. So there's basically that once we solve that, and unless we get any other. Request to modify the document then it can go up on the website after the 15th. Next up at new subgroup for operator catalog. Where do we my first question is where do we want to collate this information we were talking about. Organizing our catalog operator catalog efforts and the research we were going to do about what control we have. Do we want to do this in the hack and be or do we want to do it as a discussion item in the repo or where do folks want to do this work. Don't we just need to have a call or a meeting or a discussion to find something. From the couple of meetings, a couple of discussions we've had the big sticking point is. Are we able to do anything around this or is it all going to be done within the red hat. Right, right. Is there anything for us to do with this respect. And I guess until we know that answer. If the answer is it's all going to be done inside red hat then there's nothing for us to do. I think if we're not if taking the working group stuff aside. I think we should answer this question in a document. Whether we know the answer is going to be yes or no, because it keeps coming up. So maybe we do do this as a discuss we do do. Maybe we do this as a discussion item in the repo so that when people ask the question. They're already issues open around the like for the general question about the catalog. There's the one that's that's that Christian open that has the list of the individual operators between we have anything that's sort of a collating ticket or issues. I'll tend to use that one. Okay. Put everything and operator under that one issue because that way we have a history of how it's evolved and. All right, fair enough. And that's what we will do. Put a little note here and stuff. Use which I don't actually have Christians issue, which I don't have someone has the address on. Hey, moving on reworking the base repository. Brian, do you want to go ahead and talk a little bit about the conversations that we've been having. Yeah, so if you'd have a conversation. And I mean, the gist of it is that we need a good read me on the open shift main repo. It's primarily going to be used for call us coalescing issues and discussions. And all I mean the way that input it is all document worthy content should be either in docs.okd.io or okd.io the community site. So we want to move all sort of documentation guides from that repo into our documentation. I think that's where we come to sort of finish that conversation just this afternoon or if you're this morning if you're west coast based off. So yeah, I think that that's the way to go. And so it does actually bring up the question about technical documentation, because the only place that really is is the sort of notes that Vadim's put together in that okd repo. And I guess I have a question for the wider group is, is this something that we feel that we want to do and want to support. I mean, I have had a couple of looks at thinking about building a custom. Could I build okd from source, for example, if I wanted to change the operator catalog, and I build that part of the distribution myself from source. And I very quickly came to the conclusion that I don't have enough information with what's in the current repos. And the amount of time I'd need to spend to figure it out was just too much amount of spare time. So I think that is a question that this brings up for me. If we start looking at the content that James, the damn Vadim sorry, put in the okd, it gives a shell of the sort of activity he does to pull a release together, but not enough to actually allow somebody to replicate that work. And is that something we want to fill out and build out that top technical documentation. And so somebody could effectively go to github and build okd from scratch. I don't know if that's even feasible. I know there's a lot of infrastructure within red hat that is used to do that build. Is that something we can document and effectively get someone to reproduce or is that just going to be a massive massive bit of work and it's not worth the investment in that that work. I don't know. Yeah, I think you raised a bunch of really good questions. Like, I guess I would say that in principle, if we're claiming to be supporting open source, then it should be possible for an interested third party to build it from the source. And at the point that red hat was an independent company, they always supported open source. And I haven't heard that changing on paper anyway, since they were acquired by IBM. So I'm guessing that that still is the case at least somewhere in red hat. And the the issue of whether or not it is feasible to do that, or if there are things that are completely tied to internal structure that are impossible to duplicate outside. That's really a red hat question that we can't answer. Although we could ask. I think that that would be worth. I guess trying to sort of answer the question. One way or the other, given that it would be a desirable thing to be able to do, you have to build from source. And the, I guess in, you know, this is sort of going back, you know, to, you know, sort of new foundations and Richard Stallman, all those sorts of things. But the basis of trust is that you can, you know how you get to the binaries, you can read the code if you have an infinite army to do that, etc, etc. And I think that that still was supporting. Like I would be interested in building it from the source. Were it possible. That's something that I frequently do with the tools that I use. And I think that it would be helpful if we, you know, riffing on what you said, Bruce, you know, if we, if we're saying to the community that okay, this is an open source project. If we can at least provide enough of the information minus the red hat specific details. Maybe folks can fill in the blanks with their own technologies. You know, like, okay, so for if they're using prow or whatever. Internally and we wouldn't have access to that. Well, they can do their own problem or they knew whatever else to fill in those gaps. You know, so having documentation up to that point is good. And I also think it's important because, you know, and I've mentioned this before, even early on, having Vadim be the single sort of like everything resting on Vadim shoulders is probably not a great idea for a community project. Right. And I know that they have now moved things under so OKD is like an official upstream now. It still doesn't change it. At least in my mind, I haven't seen anything change where Vadim has any less sort of of that response on his shoulders. Yeah. Yeah. It would be wonderful for someone external to have, you know, that capability and at some point Vadim will get promoted out of that position, hopefully for his career. We have to retrain somebody else. And so anything we can do to document it better, even if it is a red hat or that we slot back in, not that he, you know, not that he's not getting promoted recent soon. But, you know, that happens. It's part of the process here. So the better documentation we have the more useful it will be when that transition does happen in Vadim. If you're listening, hopefully you will get that whatever career bump it is for doing all this wonderful work. And anyone else who's listening, he deserves it. Okay. So I think so, Brian, what do you, what would you suggest as next steps then? So I think what we need to do, and again, I look for suggestions how we do this, we do need to pull together that community of, I think exclusively red hat is at the minute that have that knowledge to create a technical documentation section within the OkD.io. As I say, we're going to move it out of the repo as we transition the OkD.io repo. I think what's there is a useful insight, but it's not sufficient. If anybody wanted to go and do that and make use of that information. So I think now I know that we have the document work sessions in the past where we had like a hack day or whatever. I don't know whether we do that. We try and do it just by asking for volunteers or contributions. And even if it's just bullet points and this team then takes on the job of turning it into pros and tidying it up. But I think it's going to have to come from initially the red hats people because they are the only ones that have the knowledge as far as I'm aware. In terms of how all this works and what are the missing pieces and. So I have a call once a week with Chris Alfonso who is that runs the engineering manages the engineers. What I'll bring it up with him this week or I'll just reach out to him right now and ask him. Maybe because I don't want to burden the team anymore, but maybe if there's a new engineer that is could go through. Can you pop the in the chat the URL to what's there now so I have that and I could just send an email to. Chris Alfonso and ask him if there's a newbie or someone that can shadow him and then. And see if we can get some red hatters to do that before we like try and set up a hackathon to hack on it first and see what what Chris comes up with because Chris. He may have somebody already that he's in training or whatever. Yeah, so I'll pop it in but it is actually the main okay D repo. Which is github.com open ship slash okay D and if you go in there you'll see things like the troubleshooting section. That actually tells talks about the OS tree type stuff and there is something in the read me in the main read me which just talk a little bit about but it's always in that one repo the okay D main repo. But there's also. Oh, what I was going to say is there is also the repo that has the machine config operator stuff that is actually sort of the okay D install that's a separate repo correct. Yeah, and this was one of the problems that when once you start at the okay D mean repo. To actually work out what you need to build it and it's how many of these other. And repose within the oak oak within the open shift organization and there are 623 of them by the way. Which of those 623 to actually need to start looking at to work out how I do all this stuff. How do they interlink. And you certainly get that it's a problem that's too big for one person just to actually sit through in the spare time. And probably some of them like the some of this may go back to OCP, because, you know, if there's a content, an operator that okay D uses which isn't changed, then there isn't going to be any okay D. You know, diffs or anything like that that you're going to see. So you'd have to go back to the read me for that. Now, yeah, because, you know, there are other sort of mega projects, like if you look at the wildfly. Then, you know, that application server is tons of modules. But there is a sort of master make file that goes through and build everything. And, you know, that's sort of a technology like a, maybe an OCP issue, rather than okay D issue. But again, I don't know, like I look at it, but it's been about a year and I got stopped pretty instantaneously. So, yeah, I think we have the same experience. So I'm happy to help coordinate, but I just don't have the technical knowledge to actually do this. But I actually do think we do need a technical section which explores some of this. And I think this will then also feed into the operator discussion. Because it may be that red hat will do and through through their sort of engineering that their product, they will produce something. And then we use information, the technical section to say, if this isn't what you want, if you want to add additional ones or you want to change the version that's shipped. This is how you would go and create your own catalog and cut your own version of the of the catalog. So, can I just ask for Claire, I just want to make sure I'm asking Chris Alfonso for the right thing here. Because I hear two words that I, in my brain, and it's, is the build process for building the release is one whole thing that isn't really well documented. And then the insulate, when you want to go and install it on some target cloud or hardware, those are two separate tracks. And so when I was asking about the link there, the link, it's all intertwined in the documentation. So prioritizing that the build process first and then the install or. Yeah, there's actually a way we can approach this. So let me, let me sort of, I reached out to Vadim, and he gave me the URL was trying to find the right repo and I found it. I put the link in the meeting notes. We don't necessarily have to get any external people involved yet. What we can do is have a day where we go through that repo and go through the machine content process there. I've actually gone through those scripts before. I didn't document what I found or how it all works. But that is the stuff that puts OKD specific content onto a cluster. And everything else then comes from OpenShift. So what my suggestion would be is before we even get anyone else involved, let's ourselves, those of us who are interested in the engineering part, go through this together and write up some notes. So we better understand what we're talking about to ask the right questions of other people. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you. That makes perfect. So that's the OKD Machine OS. That's it right there. And if you look at the overlays and the manifests are sort of the key points to look at. And then it actually shows you where the Fedora Core OS gets built using the assembler there. And so this repo has it all actually. Okay. In terms of OKD. But just to go back to your question, and I think the install, we've got covered because we've already got the guides and we've got the official install within the docs. So I think the install we have largely got covered, there may be a slightly different, if you build it yourself, I don't know whether we actually create the right assets to plug into that process. But I think that that one I see as a we've largely got that covered in the OKD.io. There is some of that content in the in the OKD and that's overlap and I think most of it's out of date. It's been superseded with the work that El and Nico did in the OKD.io. And what we don't have anywhere other than what's in the OKD is the technical documentation, which is about building and customizing a release of OKD. So to me, that's that's what we're talking about here. It's that it's that technical dev, which I'm guessing is what originally the Slack channel that we're closing down was meant to be for, but we've never really got there. So. So if we set up a time, maybe we can bring this up at the next next week's meeting Jamie to review the. This machine OS repo and make sure that it's sufficient and maybe the read means a little deeper. I'm happy to host it a separate meeting for it, whomever and do that. So if we can add it to the agenda next week and see if you think that's right. And then in my weekly meeting with Chris Alfonso and a few other folks, I will see if I can just plant the seed and see if there are red hat. If there is a backup plan for Vadim and who those people are who might come and be part of that. As well, so we'll see. We'll see. I don't want to make an ask as Jamie points out before we know what we're asking and that's what's. Yeah, so let's. So, I'll add it to the agenda of the next main meeting and then we'll go from there. I've added an action item for myself to do that. Can I just, I'm just going to ask 1 question. Michael Burke, who's been listening in quietly here. Is there any. Section of the OCP. Documentation that is about building from scratch. No, is that internally? There's nothing. It's just using internal. Is there internal stuff? Are you aware of that? It's got to be something. It's got to be somewhere, but it's not anything that documentation is is managing. Correct. You don't, you're not aware of it. Okay. Oh, we'll see. Got to be there somewhere. Got to be somewhere. I'll take a look around. All right, well, let's move on now to. Presentation template. Does anyone need to just for clarity? Does anyone need to weigh in on the presentation template? Like we can just do whatever we want. You can, you know, as long as you are using the right logo. And you don't change, I think the message. The tagline. You can make it as cartoony or. My tech or a matrix like or whatever you want. Yeah. We are. Yeah. Go for it. If you guys want to do a makeover on the template and create a new template. Bob's your uncle. All right, let's put a due date of the meeting of the 23rd for folks to look at Sandra's. Template and then we will decide. At that point to sort of sign off on it as version 1.0. And then version it from then, from then forth. And the, I guess the thing is, is so, is this something we would want to store in get, or just keep it as a Google presentation. Jamie, I just clicked on the link and it says I need access. Andro mentioned that like. Apparently, we need to figure out how to make it public. Yes, you need to find a way to make it completely public. Right. Like I've actually got his template under one of my tabs. It's just a matter of finding it, but I just decided to try clicking on the link again and see if that worked. Yeah, so it's a very small theme. It's just like four different basic slides. But yeah, I don't. It's Sandra might have to recreate it using his Gmail account as opposed to his red hat account. Yeah, I believe so. Because I guess I'm just saying that if we can't, if nobody can actually see it, it's going to be sort of hard to get comments. You should be able now to see it. I hit the button for sharing it. I'll try to transfer under the organization in a B possible. You can see it now, Brian. Okay. Okay, I still can't. So that's sort of interesting. Let me refresh again. Nope. Are you signed into Google Bruce at all. Yeah, I'm signed in with my Gmail. That's weird account. Maybe it's because you're Canadian. No, could be. Maybe try again requesting access. There should be a button there for requesting. There is. Okay. Okay. Well, let's do that for now, but I mean, ultimately we'll want to work out the, the access issue and the versioning do we want to keep it as a Google presentation and just keep, you know, because you can look at versions and the version history and rely on that. Is it safe? Are folks comfortable with that? Or would you rather something more tightly controlled? What do folks think? If somebody wants to use it, are there more likely to use it on the laptops or from Google Docs? I mean, when you do presentations, do you trust Google Docs to be there and available at the conference center given a lot of conference Wi-Fi isn't always the most reliable. Because I'm guessing at the end of the day, this is going to be used to give presentations, whether we're standing face to face at a conference or a virtual conference. If it may have the usual way I use this one is getting a PDF out of the presentation when I'm done and just going away with the PDF. Yeah, and you can make it available for offline as well in Google Docs. Okay. All right. And so now, again, so the, by the 23rd, any types of changes that you want to that basic template, let us know. And then we also should off of that template and maybe off of that version that was floating around of like a full presentation, come up with like the basic OKD presentation about what it is, what it does and stuff like that. That's down the road, I'm sure. Because someone's going to have to do that work. Okay, issues. Old site into the new repo. Well, we're sort of discussing that now in terms of the technical stuff. Well, no, I should update that ticket though probably with discussions from today. But wasn't this also about the actual community repo? Because we've got a community repo that has five documents in it. Dark set members, owners, read me and roadmap. Yeah, we're waiting for you, Diane, because you weren't at the last meeting where we discussed this. It's the community repo. The one that you created that has the charter and everything. Retire it and move it over into OKD.io repo. Okay. It's fine to do that. Okay. Yeah. Just get it all in one place. So we're going to move that into OKD.io site. Yeah. Is that what you were? Yeah. Okay. Hey, and next up the transition to matrix. So Brian, you said you had a hard time getting in. Yeah, I couldn't sign up because it said my domain wasn't recognized or approved. I can't remember the exact wording. The domain of your email address. Was it Gmail? Was it Gmail? We're using your Gmail one or a corporate email address? It was my personal one, which is me.uk. Or it was my Gmail. I can't remember which one I used. Well, I think there's, yeah. I haven't even tried yet. So I will endeavor to do that too as well and do that. I haven't. So when did it get set up and what is the URL to it? Is that in the meeting notes? It was in the full meeting notes. It was in the full meeting notes. Okay. We'll go back and take a peek. But yeah, I don't know. Is there an admin for the matrix that you? Sounds like such a strange thing to say. If you actually go to the link there in our current meeting notes, if you go to that GitHub issue, there is a link to it within there. And it should all be set up. Yeah, you need to go to another client. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I, this, maybe this isn't the best thing. I mean, the idea was that since Fedora is so intimately. You know, interlinked in the work that we do and we want to support them and we want to get those folks engaged. That matrix was the way to do it since they're all moving to matrix. But if it's problematic to get people signed up and to get people in there, then maybe we need to rethink that. I'm at the. Of the opinion, let's have one place and only one place. Now, I know that there are benefits of, if you're where the other people are, they're more likely to come and join you rather than go and look for you elsewhere. But if we're in Slack, if we're in Facebook, if we're on Twitter, if we're in matrix, if we're in GitHub. It just means that unless we got people in the community that are actively working there and people are going to get frustrated and then the cross posting everywhere like we've just been trying to shut down. Because there are responses. So if we're going there, then someone has to commit to be a regular reviewer and. Yeah. Yeah, well let's play with it and see what benefit it adds or detraction that it adds. We're not publicizing it all yet. Let's see if we can get some of us in there and play around and see, I'm not that familiar with matrix myself so it'd be nice to get in and just play around and see what we can do. I'm all for playing with new toys and seeing if this is going to take off. It may be just our link to the Fedora core OS conversations too. So, because I think they're reluctant to use Slack, which for all kinds of good reasons. Okay, next up is. So I talked about the security liaison request we talked about like trying to get someone to volunteer to help us with collate security. Stuff and maybe write something up that we can provide the community since there's lots of security issues popping up. I have a link to my just a very simple one. If folks want to go ahead and put comments in there, then we'll sign off on it in the next couple days. Async. This also has the issue of who do they contact who we tell them to send an email to. What, what are people's thoughts on this or Diana are you saying that we don't want to for under any circumstances. I'm not saying that yet. I just, while you were talking, I sent an email to the legal team to ask them what the, what the. Advice was on who should receive those things because they do. There is some confidentiality stuff for the code of conduct. So we can, we can figure out if we can create a. So we can, we can figure out if we can create a. Okay, d.io mail server somewhere. But let's, let's get the code of conduct one done the security one. I think we already have has for security. But it's a different, a different question for security because it's since it's not a supported product by red hat. Well, no, but this is, this is who did they contact. To get to the working group to let them know that they're interested in being like a little. Doing some liaison volunteer work. So this is the other, this is. Incoming us to for someone to say, hey, and this, this will be for other volunteer things that we send stuff out asking for. Right. If we ask for someone to be a. Whatever volunteer for looking for volunteers to do testing, whatever, like, we would want. Sort of, we don't have any type of other than the working group email address where people would have to join and become members. We don't have an email address for addressing. Projects or anything like that. I don't have a great answer for you at the moment. That's why I set up the Google group so that we would have a way to get contacted. But I think you have to be a member to be able to. To, to message it, right? Yep. So they would have to join the Google group and send a message and that was part of join the Google group and get everybody in 1 place. So. Yeah, let's do some investigative work on that because ultimately, I think for us to be successful, we need something that people don't have to join. To be able to message us with whatever, you know, emotional things. Partnership ideas, whatever. Yeah, I just joined the matrix for Dora group. And it is slightly annoying as usual in that. You have to either, I guess, created and count or use. You know, Google or 50,000 other things with SSO. And then you have to create a username and. It's like discord or anything else. You have to. It's like, exactly. It's like all those 50,000 other things and it makes me want to use IRC. So, I'm not sure if it will fit because for example, for example, in overt we are requiring to be registered on IRC as well. So you still need to be registered somewhere. Yeah, I think, and that's the same with the Google group. I mean, it's a very light ask. To join. Yeah, and if you have a fedora account, you should be able to set up cloaking. I think both in matrix and IRC. For your fedora. So. It's. It's six of one half a dozen of another. They're going to either have to join. Fedora or join our Google group, which is. What I think personally that joining the Google group is more transparent and more. Open then. Kick me if I'm wrong then joining fedora and creating a fedora account. It's a lighter ask to ask people to join the Google group. And to sign up for discord or matrix or slack or anything else. It was at the time, the lightest ask I could do. And so I mean. Well, let's play around and see what happens. And contact email, I guess we'll just find out like what our options are. Yeah, there's the task list and then upcoming events as mentioned. There is the. There's the GitOps event tomorrow at. What is it? Noon Eastern. Noon Eastern 9am my time. Yeah, right. Are you going to mention okay D at all in your GitOps talk. Yes, I mentioned okay D significant amount of times. Okay, cool. Then I will make sure we capture that and we use that content and get that up there somewhere on the site. So, cool. Thanks. All right. Well, that brings us down to the end of the meeting folks. We've got our task list there. I'll send a little reminder of the task list out probably next beginning of next week. Just so that folks can get refreshed on what needs to be done. Any last minute comments or questions before we break for the day. Yeah, just quickly on that. I have a task list on looking to open shift book status. Yeah, and when I quickly looked into it, turns out the red hat owns the copyright to that. Now, I don't know if Diane got herself up to speed on that, but that issue was there. There's some old. Open shift. Three books that sort of our O'Reilly books that red hat gives you free PDFs to or something like that. And the, one of them anyway, it was I think by Shipley and company, and it seemed like it would be not that much work and useful to update them to OQD. What I do anyway. All right. So if I could get the source files for something like that, you'd be interested in creating an update in them. Yeah. And so that they were OQD books versus open shift books that that would be fine with me. Yeah. Let's let's take that offline because I think that's a really great idea. And figure out how to do that. And since you're in Canada and nearby, we might be able to collaborate on that in real time. So that would be cool. That would be very cool to do something like that. But the one thing I'll say, and I then we're going to run out of time to say getting a book published is an expensive endeavor. So if we did it as an open book that was just available online, a community hosted thing that would probably where we do what we will probably never be given or find the money to publish an actual hard copy book. And that is a marketing endeavor and costs. I was just in a review of that and it's redonkulous how much they charge O'Reilly to print a book. So aspirations of having an ISBN number and a hard copy are limited. No, but we'll see. All right. Thank you everybody for taking the time while I was away and and I will catch up with everybody. Let's get that OKD book out there, Brian. That would be nice. And I'll stop recording now.