 On today's episode, we have a very special guest, Yusuke Nagano, a karate coach in Tokyo, and Sensei of the Karate Dojo-Waku YouTube channel, is with us to talk about the practices of teaching traditional shodokan karate in Japan. So for the viewers who might not be familiar with your teaching in your channel, you teach shodokan in Tokyo, can you tell us a little bit about the historical significance of the school? The school that I coach at is called Keio-Mita Karate-Kai. I think in English would be Keio-Mita Karate Club or something like that. It was the first, I guess, the karate school in mainland Japan. I think a lot of you guys might know about Gijin Funakoshi, who has brought Shurite from Okinawa to Tokyo in the 1920s. He started teaching to the elites first. So Keio is a university in Japan, and it's one of the good schools in Tokyo. So he started teaching karate in Keio University, and it's been going on since 1925. I forgot the exact year, but it has a pretty long history. And there's a university at the top, and then there are high schools and middle schools that are connected. And I am from a high school from that school system. So as a, I guess, somebody who has finished or graduated the high school, I go back there once in a while to teach them karate. I usually go back once a week, depending on my schedule, and I teach karate there. Excellent. That's fantastic. I love the history that's attached to that. I mean, you're talking about a school that's been there since the beginning pretty much of Shodokan. Right. It's awesome. So if I understand correctly, so the school is working to preserve the original works and teachings of Funakoshi. How do you guys do, like, what efforts do you put in to preserve his original art and his teachings, and how does it differ to the Shodokan we see today? Right. I wouldn't say there is like a huge difference. Maybe in percentages, it would be like 10% or 15%. The differences aren't so vast. And what we do or what the, it's not something I do personally, what the teachers, the old, the masters do, is they would hold weekly practices. They're in their 70s, 60s, but they come together, I think it was every Thursday. And they practice the katas, they discuss the bunkais, like maybe it's this, that. And there is a KO version, or I guess the masters call it the original version of the Shodokan katas. So the stances are higher, which is something that are seen across other universities as well, because Shodokan, the stances are getting lower and lower. So the stances are higher in the KO way of doing Shodokan. Some of the emotions for katas are different as well. But they're very minor differences. If you do Shodokan, you can pick it up, but if you don't do it, I don't think you can pick up the differences. It's interesting you said about the stances because it was Funakoshi's son that started introduced the lower stances, isn't it? Right. So is this what they try to preserve his work as well, or is it mainly Gijin Funakoshi's at work? That's a hard question. I think it's more of Gijin Funakoshi's teachings simply because there are still direct students that Gijin Funakoshi taught that are still alive in KO. So since those masters are still there, I think the younger ones that started the practice at a later stage, doesn't have a huge authority over what the KO Mita Club is going to do. So right now it's Gijin Funakoshi, but maybe later in the future it might change. So I thought there's something really fun that you have on your website about your school and that you offer classes to tourists, so people traveling to Japan and Tokyo, they get to take a class with you. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and kind of like the experience that you offer? Sure. Sure. I did that before I started this YouTube channel actually. I used to, it was in 2019 when COVID wasn't here yet, so I would teach karate for beginners and more experienced people. For the experienced people, it wasn't a lifetime experience coming all the way to Tokyo. It's pretty far from other countries, so I wanted them to have a very good experience. So I would make everything Taylor made, so I would listen to them, listen to their problems, what their background is, and make a full, I think it was a 90 or two minute hour lesson to cover up anything that they like. So that's something I did before. After the pandemic, when everything settles down, I hope to restart it because so many people are like, I want to go to Japan and see you, so I would like to provide something for everybody in the future. That's such a great experience to be able to travel to Japan and train at a dojo even if it's for one day, it's a place like to meet the dojo. I mean, that's just, so they're not only getting a lesson, they're getting a great historical significance along with it. Right. So I think the atmosphere is a lot different from dojos abroad and the etiquette part. And I guess, I mean, the Japanese society is built upon like respect and our way of thinking. So just feeling that I think is a great experience and I travel a lot. So I really appreciate, you know, doing something very local. So yeah, I hope to, you know, continue doing something like this. Have you ever had any weird requests from tourists about what they wanted to learn? Weird requests. Weird requests. There have been people that wanted to take photos mainly, like and not the lessons. I mean, I guess it's okay. I mean, they're coming for vacation. So I mean, I would take photos for them, but mainly for the experience class. I mean, for the people that already know karate, they were looking for the skills and the actual, you know, I guess. They said the karate at their countries is a lot different. So they want something more authentic. So I mean, I would just, you know, teach what I do normally and it seems like they had a great time. So I'll just continue it. That sounds fantastic. That really does. From what I understand with the cultural difference with Japan and say, like the West and the USA, there's a great emphasis placed on respect for the elders. So if you are in a class, from my understanding is students really shouldn't question the material or ask the instructor a lot of questions. If there's a student who does have a question about what they're learning, what's the most respectful way for them to kind of voice that opinion or try to seek that information? I think, first of all, it really depends on the person. It really depends on the sensei. And maybe like 50 years ago, that might have been the common case where you just cannot ask any questions. But it's 2021 and things have changed. I would say what we think in terms of questioning somebody is, have you put enough work that you have a question? I think that's, if that makes sense, like if the student just goes into class and starts asking questions right away, the teachers would or the older teachers would commonly say, have you practiced at all? Because if you haven't done repetitions at all, then I think the questions you ask are going to be very light and not deep enough. So they ask you or I guess they expect you to work on something that's in front of you and give your 100% or 200% onto something. Let's say you do the kihon. Do the kihon, like get everything out, put your focus there. And then ask the question. I think that's a common way of thinking in the Japanese. So if you, yeah, dama, there is a common, I'm not sure if it's a common saying, but some people say dama-te, dama-te yaru, dama-te yareyo. It's a very forceful way of saying it, but it says shut up and just do it. I think in the back of our heads, a lot of people think that way. And I think they're both pros and cons. You know, the pros are you're going to do the work. The cons are people cannot ask a question. Like if they're not used to asking questions, they just keep on doing something without any doubt. And they'll end up going somewhere far away, like away from the core. But yeah, I think that's the common way of thinking when it comes to questioning here in Japan. Does that say true if they're on the map versus off the map? Like outside the school, is there still the same kind of process? I think so. The older teachers, well, again, it depends on the teacher, but the relationship on the map and off the map, or in the dojo, out of the dojo, doesn't really change much for the older teachers. It's not like they become casual right away. You still have that respect when you're out of the dojo as well. So I think that's how it is. Now, as far as like Bunkai, like an Okinawan practice, especially Gojiru, there's a heavy focus based on Bunkai. How is that approached in traditional shodokan? The very good schools, the very traditional schools, practice the Bunkai. But it's also a reality that like the Olympics are on right now, a lot of the dojos are going into competitions more. And I think, you know, as a kid, if you don't have competitions, I think it's hard to keep up the motivation as well. I think that's also the reality. So the teachers, the teachers know the Bunkai, but they spent more time on teaching the competition aspect of karate. So I think, you know, again, it depends on the teacher. But from what I feel, I think most schools in mainland Japan, I'm not sure about Okinawa, but mainland Japan focuses on Katazen, Kumite, more experience rather than Bunkai. But again, the older sensei still practice the Bunkai. So when a student, let's say they finish high school, they finish college and they start, you know, getting interested in the martial art aspect of karate. Then they start getting interested in those aspects. But they have been training so much that they can just go right into the Bunkai without any question. It's the second nature at that point. Right, right. So since the Mita Dojo that you're working with, there's that effort to preserve traditional shodokan. How prevalent are Funukoshi's 20 precepts? Is that something that's still as prevalent today as it was years back? Is that are there any that are have more focus in others in particular? I think it's a lot more emphasized in the Western countries. I don't know why, but in Japan, you I don't think a lot of people know all 20. Like, I think they've heard of it. They know the existence of it, but they wouldn't, you know, know deeply about it. To be honest, I never knew about it since I started this YouTube channel because it's not something we read or we learn in the dojo. There are dojo-kuns or like teachings. It's not something so strict as dojo-kun. It's just a teaching as a human being in a dojo like to be respectful or to put in the work. But it's not something that's verbally set out loud in Japan. But from from my own perspective, Karate ni sentinashi is a very, I guess, well known phrase. There is no first attack in Karate. I think that's the one in English. And yeah, I think that most Karate would know that phrase and has it in his mind. Right, that would be the whole importance on it. So you're saying it's a deal. That's interesting that more importance on it, you're saying it's more in the Western countries. So do you think it's a matter of the ideas being romanticized more than what it actually was? I slightly feel that, yes. Interesting, that's actually a romanticized aspect. I think is pretty, that's what I feel as a Japanese. And I think it's meant to be like that because it's a new way of thinking for other countries. But for us, it's something that it's not so special. It's not something we just have in Karate. It's something that we have while living in this country. So there's, I don't think there's a huge need for it to be like emphasized so much within just a dojo. Like our parents would tell us something similar. So I think that's one of the reasons, yeah. So it's more of a lifestyle, just a way to live and be respectful. And that makes a lot of sense, actually. Are there any particular behaviors or unspoken rules that instructors like to see their students do? Well, first, being disrespectful to anybody in a dojo would be one. Maybe the definition of being respectful is different between countries, too. But unspoken rules, right? Within the dojo, in the dojo or out of the dojo. Within the dojo, like any behaviors that I guess let me rephrase this. Are there any specific initiatives or behaviors that teachers like to see their students do without being told? Like any take any action or say anything or maybe go over and help other students or anything that's not necessarily taught or instructed to do that instructors like to see? I guess simple things like saying hello to your friend, saying hello to the instructor when you come into the dojo or saying goodbye, you know, don't just come in without saying anything. Those simple things like as a human being. And I guess for your belongings, too. If you let's say you come in with a backpack and you have your doggies and you have your equipment in there. A lot of people or I guess the normal Japanese is not just cut out there. Japanese people expect you to put it nicely onto a wall or you don't just want to throw it on the floor. You want it to be nicely placed. So and that's something we think about as a as I think I think as Japanese. And so that's something that sensei would expect you to do without telling you to do. But maybe for elementary school kids, the sensei would instruct you on that point. But I feel like a high school student. I wouldn't want to make my point out on those points because I mean, I expect them to do it. Now, I noticed that you released a video, say, about watching the Karate Olympics live stream, which was pretty cool. What is the overall attitude right now? Like in Japan, like, is there a lot of pride that that this karate or is there any people who don't like it? Like, what's the overall attitude and feelings having karate represented in the Olympics in Japan? To be honest, the. The general audience doesn't know much about karate, so I don't think they care. They don't have any opinions on it, so they don't care. But I think. I mean, it started and, you know, seeing some some people on Twitter, they seem to like it. So I guess the general Japanese audience do are enjoying karate and for the karate practitioners, I think a lot of people do like what's happening and they do have the pride to see in the Olympics. And I've seen, you know, I'm in my like, I have my half of myself in the international martial art world and then half of myself in Japan, so I can sense the differences. And it's funny that I think there are a lot more negative comments or negative thoughts or not not thoughts, but negative perspective towards Olympic karate and I guess maybe the states are in English speaking countries compared to Japan. And I think that's because the Okinawan influence or the original karate way of thinking is more deeply, I guess, intertwined between. Countries abroad and not Japan and mainland Japan there are there aren't a lot of people doing Okinawan karate and most schools are mainland Japan karate like Shodokan Shoryu Kyokushin Kyokushin is big too. But I can see, you know, people, especially in the states, like in the early 1950s, you know, people started going from Okinawa to the states, Hawaii, California, doing Shorinryu. Shorinryu isn't so big in Japan, but a lot of people, I think, do Shorinryu in the states. So that's something that's very surprising for me. So having said that, since more people I'm not sure if it's more, I don't know the absolute number, but since I feel like more people in English speaking countries knows about the Okinawan karate, they can make a comparison. And I think, thus, they have some people have a negative comment about Olympic karate. If someone is looking for a good Shodokan school, can you give any recommendations or signs or things that they should ask that they might not know to ask for? If you can see the sensei doing a kata wo kumite, I think that's the best indication to how far you can go within that school. If the sensei doesn't, or if it doesn't have to be a four kata within the lesson, if you can see the sensei move full speed, I think that's the best way to to see if he has a good school or not. I guess maybe if he, even if he is good at delivering or explaining things, if he can't show it with his own body, then it's going to be very hard to imagine what he's talking about. So I would say that's one aspect. And if and if you don't have any kata experience to to evaluate if he's moving to a good or not, then I would say if they allow you to take a video, I don't know, maybe that's a sensitive thing, but if they allow you to take a video, take it back home. There are tons of videos on YouTube, so just compare and see if you like it or not. That would be my answer. And that's what I would do if I were to start any other martial arts. So what is your favorite thing about teaching karate and do you have any particular goals that you're striving to achieve? Well, in Japan, since I coach at a middle school and high school, it's different from teaching at a karate school. In karate school, your role, your main role is to teach karate, but I teach at a school, so it's like half education, half karate. So my goal is within the three years or six years middle school and high school. I hope to have the kids grow up that so that when they graduate, they know about themselves like they can they know about their own character, they understand what they like, what they don't like. And that's something that they understand throughout having those difficulties doing karate, working with the teammates, aiming for that one tournament. You know, those those kind of things. So that's what I feel as an instructor in Japan and as a karate content creator and someone that somebody that teaches people abroad. My goal is to have people understand the wide aspect of karate. They are both, you know, the Okinawan side, the Japanese side. And recently, I never knew karate like branch out so much across the world. So I'm starting to become interested in those. And yeah, I just hope to. Since I cannot, you know, have them face to face, I can't really deliver the skills. Well, I can't deliver the skills as much as, you know, if I were to see them every day in Japan. So the education side, or I guess not the education, but the knowledge side is as bigger, I think, for the international audience. So there's two sides of me. That's fantastic. Well, so far you've done a fantastic job, a big fan of your channel. You've been putting out a lot of great videos. And I definitely appreciate your efforts to spread the knowledge. You know, there's just so many channels out there that they talk bad about the martial arts, but I like the positive energy that you put out and I like the exploration. And I just want to say thank you so much for taking part today and sharing your experience with us. It's it's been an honor to have you on today. Thank you so much for having me. I want to extend an extreme thank you, Sensei, for spending the time to talk with us and sharing your perspectives of karate that many of us don't get to see. Be sure to check out Yusuke's channel as for the discussion we talked about comparing American Kempo to traditional karate and you can find those episodes on his channel. He also has a lot of phenomenal content exploring the martial arts and he will be returning next week to talk about this exploration and his experience with karate around the world. So click on that bell notification and set your reminders to come back and check that out. As an exclusive episode for our Patreon subscribers and YouTube memberships, I talked with Sensei in a special off the mat interview. That's a very funny question. It's so weird to be talking about this much. Visit us on Patreon or click the join button below for access.