 Good evening and welcome to episode 325 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzaman Dunwar Komalo. It's the Tuesday edition of the Private Property Podcast. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome to it. You are tuned in to the early daily property podcast in the country. So do make sure that you go to our Facebook and our YouTube page to catch up on all the great content that you've already missed out on. We cover it all, whether you're a renter, a landlord, you're looking to buy, to sell, to rent, or to build. This is your one-stop shop on all things relating to property. And to all our regular viewers on Facebook, on Instagram, as well as on YouTube, you know how we do it every single weekday. You and I have an appointment at 7pm. I'm always in conversation with an expert who helps us navigate our property journey and certainly helps us make better property decisions. And you know how we do it every evening. I want to see the love, especially there on Facebook. I know many of you share great green hearts and of course are always eager to share some of your experiences with us. And as you know, on our Facebook page, we're also running a great competition where you can stand a chance of walking away with 500 grand in cash. Now, the competition had three components. We had three goals for this competition. We've already achieved one and it couldn't have been possible without you at home. So the first one was we wanted to reach one million followers on our Facebook page and we've already done that. We did it last week and we're now over a million, which is absolutely incredible. I think if anything is testament to how we are growing as a community and of course, how you at home are making sure that we grow it and you know, you continue spreading the word, making sure that your friends and family see all the great work and the great content that we share with you. And of course, the other aspects, we wanted to reach 10,000 comments on the post that we have pinned on our Facebook page and that is of course the competition post as well as 10,000 shares. We're halfway there with both of those. We're sitting at 5,200 comments and 5,500 shares. So we're halfway there. So the competition is still on and we're only going to stop this competition when we reach 10,000 for both of them. So if you want to send a chance of walking away with that cash, make sure you engage with that post as much as possible. It's on our pinned post on Facebook so you can tag your friends, make sure that you also share the post and of course, also leave us with the review on our Facebook page. Those are some of the great ways that you can participate. And last night, we unfortunately didn't get a winner. They didn't send us a message before the end of the show. Remember, if you want to win the money, you know you've entered the competition, then you also need to claim your prize live on air. We're in the comments section waiting to hear from you at home. The money bag is currently sitting at 1,000 rands. So if you know you've entered, then you can potentially walk away with 1,000 rands in cash. Well, that's some of the great things that are happening on our social media pages. And you can follow myself on Twitter as well as on Instagram at Zamanthuan underscore K, but we're always tackling some other thing relating to property. Now, this evening's conversation is one that I am very excited about. Not only do I absolutely love my guest this evening and the great work that she is doing, but it's also one of those conversations that I think at home we need to get a better understanding of. We're seeing the need for us to certainly come together as a collective to raise money in our different ways. And we're seeing the power of doing so. This evening, we're going to be looking at structuring a stockfile. We often talk about property stockfiles or asset-based stockfiles. And we all know what a stockfile is. We certainly grew up with our family members in one. Perhaps we are also now in different kinds of stockfiles and have tried out different ways that we can grow our property portfolio with friends or even family. Now, we're going to look at the best practices when it comes to structuring a stockfile. There's so many different creative ways that one can go about it. And we really want to get tips and insights on the best ways or the different possible ways that we can do it, especially considering how you can go from being one of those stockfiles that has a fixed amount every month or that's based on different members' ability to contribute to a certain amount. So how do we then go about determining the dividends that get paid or the share in the profit? That's some of what we're going to be looking at this evening. And before we get started with our conversation, I want to find out from you at home, are you part of a stockfile? And if you are, what does your stockfile do? So are you, you know, is it a property stockfile or is it a grocery stockfile? Whatever the case is, do share with us down here below. I already see some of the love that we're getting. I have a range of pediatrics as well as well as Masola on our Facebook page. Do keep the love coming. And this evening, I am joined by Obalesa Lemulu, who's a finance professional at Palengo Holdings. Obalesa, good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Good evening. Thank you so much for hearing me again, Zama. Happy women's man. It's such a pleasure to have you with us, Obalesa. You know, Obalesa, I think one of the great things about having you as a guest is because you've written a book about, you know, stockfiles and the ways in which we can essentially, you know, make our money work for us by using stockfiles as a mechanism to do so. And I think one of the great things is us having a better understanding of what is possible when we use stockfiles. I think we're now the generation that's actually seeing the different ways that we can use stockfiles beyond what we've seen from, you know, particularly our older relatives, whether our mothers or aunts, who did really phenomenally with stockfiles and continue to do so. And so now we're almost looking at it from a different dynamic because we're looking at asset-based stockfiles. And then before we even get to the nitty gritty, when we look at, you know, structuring a stockfile, let's look at what are some of the fundamentals that we always just need to bear in mind, regardless of sort of what structure you choose, because we'll go into that right now. But just the key basic fundamentals that viewers at home must always bear in mind when they set up a stockfile or look at structuring their stockfile. Yes. So the first thing and foremost that most of the time we forget when we come together and collaborate and especially in the form of forming a stockfile is actually having a common goal. So sometimes you can get so excited in terms of, okay, let's come together and pull our funds together and do great things with this. And then we don't define what is this great thing that you are doing as a thing. And then when you're already in a stock storyline, oh, but wait, I wanted to invest in property. No, but I wanted to invest in agriculture. So the first thing is define your common goal. Why do you want to come together and prove your financial resources together? Do you want and if you want to invest in various assets, do you want to invest in one asset? Because that also can be a conflict. Or do you want to just save money and raise the capital and invest maybe in businesses? So you need to define from the beginning at least what you are starting with as a common goal. Then first and foremost, because everything that comes after that comes to what type of constitution you're going to have, what type of entity you're going to choose when you are structuring which way you are going. So yes, first and foremost, common goal. Secondly, and it's stockfills based on trust. When I say trust, I'm not saying everybody that you're supposed to be in a stockfiller with is supposed to be your friend or somebody that you have met. There's various ways of verifying people because a lot of stockfills now are digital and they're in digital platforms. So you can almost do your due diligence in terms of checking who you're getting into a stockfiller with. Who are you forming your stockfiller with? If it means asking for their ID, checking their background in order to form them, in order just to have that some kind of trust as a fundamental before you get into anything serious. For me, I would say those are the top two things before getting into the documentation that as a normal stockfiller, you should have that has been always there in terms of the principles of stockfills because even back then when people came together to buy money, whether it was for funeral or for grocery, the common goal is always clear what they are putting money for. So it's important to define that. And then secondly, it's important to get into these things that people you trust or trustworthy people or even have a mechanism in place that will be able to check the people that you are in this with. And you know, I'm actually so happy that you mentioned that first one as an important step before you even getting contracts in place trying to find which vehicle entity to use to run your stockfills. Because I tend to find especially with us young professionals, we understand that we get the point behind stockfills. We certainly see the power and potential that stockfills have. And you sometimes know that, you know, you've got great friends or even a great network that you can tap into. And I've certainly seen some people start stockfills that they say are for investment purposes, but it was never clear what kind of investment, you know, what the investment goal is because there are so many things one can invest in, right? I mean, there are various kinds of assets, you can look at the stock market, for example. And if you go there, are you, you know, what kind of shares are you only going to do your ETFs or whatever the case is. So I think it becomes so important to have that common goal and define it so that even when, you know, members leave, they're not leaving because, but why are we now suddenly investing, for example, in trucks? And yet, Mina, I thought we're doing, you know, property. And even those who do property, they thought, I thought we're doing, you know, single units, but now all of a sudden, somebody wants us to go build. So even when you do property, it also becomes important to even be able to define is it property in its entirety? Are you at some point going to do property management or what exactly in property do you want to do? So it becomes so crucial to just get those fundamentals, right? Because I think so many people probably get that bit wrong. So when we then have the common goal, and we've defined it and we know that we're very clear on what it is that we want to do. And we also understand how stockfills are fundamentally based on trust and not in a, you know, just because you want to be a member of the stockfile, I automatically trust you. We still obviously vet each other and just make sure that, you know, you are a trustworthy person. When we then have that right, how do we go about looking at which entity to choose? Because I think one of the things, one of the trends that I'm seeing now, especially when young professionals are joining is, you know, you can have a trust, you can have a PTYLTD. I've seen some people wanting to buy old CCs because they think that actually might be slightly better. Very few though, like that isn't on trend as much. How do we then go about choosing the vehicle that we want to use once we've identified particularly the goal that we have for our stockfile? Okay, so even getting before then to the vehicle, now you've defined your common goal and you know who you're getting into this. Now you have to put the most important document in place in stockfiles, the constitution. So this is where you put all your wish list together, what you'd like to do and how you would like to do it in terms of structuring the best way to do it is to actually get a professional after you have put what you'd like to achieve together and roughly a draft of everything, should anybody die, what should happen, what are the exit points, everything that covers a constitution that is very important, who's going to be responsible, who will be the board of directors of this whole thing, all that and then give it to a professional and a legal professional, preferably a lawyer, that will now be able to structure it as a proper legal document so that they also check blind spots that you might have and even there, they even can't be able, even from then, even advise in terms of because this is what you want to do, a PTY would be better or a trust would be better or a cooperative would be better or you come to them say actually we prefer a cooperative, make this one work for us legally. So that would be the first step when it comes to structuring and then the second one would be depending on the type of asset that you want to invest in, it will depend on the entity or the vehicle that you want to use to invest in it and as most people know that stockfills are legal but they're not legal entities to hold assets by themselves, they either have to partner with the legal entity and PTY, cooperative or a trust or they convert into one of those legal entities if they want to invest into property and in that manner of ownership. So that is why it's important what you said even at the beginning, Sama, detailing to the biggest detail in terms of what you want to invest in, even anything as simple like come from we want to invest in property, this type of property, so that there is no ambiguity in between how you're going to, in terms of now when you're coming to choosing a vehicle that will be suitable for your wishes as a group that you want to choose. So depending on the type of asset you want to be, there is an option of a PTY, there's an option of a trust and there's an option of a cooperative, they all have their pros and cons and they all are not the same in terms of setting up, in terms of the finances involved and they all have their rules as they are governed by different acts, the company act for PTY, the cooperative act for the cooperative, the trust act for the trust. So that's why it's important when you are getting advice in terms of the article, make sure that number one, you can afford the vehicle when you're structuring your entity choosing that you can afford, you'll be able to abide by the law of the certain entity and be able to pay back, the payback process is able to cover the needs of the members. And the shareholding that structuring around that, is it going to be the trustees and the beneficiaries, how does that look like if you're having a trust, if you're having a company, who are going to be the board of directors and the members are going to be shareholders in this company, if you are going to be a cooperative, usually a cooperative, the entry level, everybody gets the same shares and so that when everything is paid back, everybody gets paid back the same according to their shares that are which are the same. And also if you are able to structure something within that entity that is allowable in terms of allowing others to contribute more than others and be paid according to their contributions. So it all depends on what asset you want to invest in in order to find which suitable vehicle that would work for you. And that also will be answered mostly by the first fundamental, what is your common goal? What do you want to do with this coming together as a group? We are taking your questions and comments this evening and seeing all the love that we're getting on our Facebook page, La Rochaofa and Veik, I see you, that was earlier on in the show, Colin Jansen saying, I'm in a grocery stock fall, very helpful at the end of the year. Remember, I want you to share with us if you're in a stock fall and if you are, what kind of stock fall is it? Nia Shahela or you're buying groceries, one of the really great ones that I've also seen is the one that helps out in the beginning of the year for registration fees. We know a lot of parents tend to struggle quite a bit at the beginning of the year with the December blues, so you know that you're saving up for the following year so that you don't have any issues with tuition for your kids, and some even aim to pay the full amount by March because you know that you get that special discount across many schools when you finish your school fees before March, so they want to take advantage of that as much as possible. Shanafari saying, having taken part in a stock fall yet, I've heard some scary things, but our domestic worker has one with friends for groceries for December months, and it's very interesting and helps a lot putting the money together and then splitting all groceries bought. We've got Ugamohello Masula coming back saying, I think having a common goal is the biggest factor when we want to start a trust is another factor because people do run away in December when they have to share. I'm going to go up to one of the top fan gang members saying my first stock fell was 35 rounds per person in varsity 17 years ago. Senior students ran with my money. I should search for him, but I've always belonged to one with friends and family. I belong to one property stock fell. Got to share with us how the property stock fell is going like. I love hearing you know stories about property stock falls in particular. We're going to go through more of your comments and questions later on. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back from the break, I'm going to share some of the great reasons that you've shared with us on our Facebook page, why you love private property. Let's see who's the potential winner of that 1000 round that is in the money bag this evening in our competition. Let's have a look who's going to get away or certainly be able to win this 1000 rounds. And this evening's winner is you have until the end of the show to claim the 1000 rounds that's in the money bag. I really hope that you're watching. It's 1000 rounds. That's so if you are watching, do make sure that you drop us a text down here below to claim your 1000 rounds and go into some of the great comments that you shared with us on our post, when you were sharing why you love private property. We've got a great comment here from Isabel saying, wow, congratulations Pam. I love private property because of the podcast. I love the way they give us free educational about the property and also their properties are beautiful. I love the way they present them in and make you feel like you are living heaven on earth. That's coming from Isabel and we've got another one here from saying I love the podcast for all the insights and information. Private property has helped me realize that there are ways to make my property goals a reality. Having access to all the shows and podcast lines has truly made learning about the property market accessible and has exceeded my expectations. Thank you, private property. Keep it up. And the last one this evening coming through from Nipi Pindi saying it's been years with you, private property. What I love about private property is that you give us the best shows and the best property. I have learned many things since I've joined the family. We are family. I would love to own a property one day and with you I know I will do it. Love you, Pam. Absolutely love that, Merci. And you certainly will be able to do it. To think, you know, you certainly will get there always say your property is one of those things that teaches you very quickly that it's a marathon. It's not a sprint and there are absolutely different ways for you to be able to reach your goal. I've got a great question here this evening as I'm in conversation with Opalesa Longolo who's a finance professional at Palengo Holdings and we're looking at structuring a stockfile and you know, questions that have come in. Alisa, we've got a great one here from Onela Miartaza saying how can I apply for funding as a property stockfile? So if your stockfile is just a stockfile on its own, so there are certain financial institutions that can give loans. I think we can make it, we can say which one because so far when it comes to property we know there's technically only one that's made it possible for multiple people to own this. So they're the only player right now. So we can say the name. We can say the only ones come out with this particular offering and we know they're targeting, you know, the stockfile model in particular. So yes, FNP has really come with the product that does allow funding for a stockfile. You need to find out the details in the terms of the conditions of that and I was actually looking into that last week. It's great but I think property stockfile members need to, they have a lot to consider when they are looking into things like that. It is not too different from applying a home loan on personal capacity because your credit check, your personal credit check as members is still going to affect their application and the payment of that one member missing a payment can affect the whole group. There is also the upside. I like the fact that they have kept it until 12 because it could be maybe that's how they're starting it with less people and maybe as time goes there'll be more people. But one of the things that I was personally worried about was like this cannot be more than 15 people when I was thinking about it and I just heard about it. So there is that option in terms of finding your property options. There are also other banks that are looking into the model. I personally know one that I can say now that is also looking into the property space where they will be offering a different type of financial product for specifically property stockfiles also with a certain benefit. As you know, especially the banking center, they do offer the same products just in different terms and conditions and different benefits. There's this particular benefit that I like in this one that I think will be great for the property stockfile members. The most important thing about what's evolving in the stockfile industry is the fact that now stockfiles are actually being considered as customers of these institutions while all along they were almost not ignored but they were just given savings. They're not adequately serviced for the most part. You can think of things like loans. Loans have been around ever since banks have been inserted but why didn't they give true stockfiles? Especially when they can see that they bring in literally billions of rands per annum. So it's not that the stockfiles go cray-cray as it were but you see the money coming in obviously also see the money being withdrawn at the end of the typically the end of the year and so how do you creatively get in at the very least a certain percentage of that money as a financial institution and create solutions that the stockfiles can benefit from because unfortunately up until recently they haven't been adequately they haven't been able to take advantage of that particular facility at banks. So the only thing you could do is of course you know save but there aren't that many instruments that you can use that facility with. So I think it's great that we're seeing financial institutions coming to the party when it comes to stockfiles. We still have some really great questions coming in. I can already see somebody who's very invested in this conversation on Facebook is Orifule Malibana asking us a series of different questions. Let me go through I'll go through three other questions. So I think the first one you've pretty much answered when you're answering Onela's question and her question was you know can a stockfile get a loan and the second question was can you join a stockfile even if you don't have source of income and I'll wrap it with her third question and her third question I already have a short answer for it and the third question is is the WhatsApp stockfile legit and I think when you answer the the WhatsApp stockfile exactly right I think the answer is very short but I want to expand her question and look at and you were saying this earlier Palae said that stockfiles now also operating in the digital space and a lot of stockfiles who may not for example use banks will use stockfile you'll be able to find a stockfile via stockfile and perhaps part of the communication will then be via WhatsApp so let's not even look at WhatsApp stockfile the way we know it's a pyramid scheme but look at the the way in which stockfiles are now using digital tools to meet to report how do we then suss out if those are real and legit because it's so easy they can have a WhatsApp group they can have a Facebook group and all kinds of different you know modes of communicating that you're still feeling like I don't know if this is a scam or it's just a stockfile that's innovative and using you know or that's very tech savvy and just using all these different platforms to communicate their value offering so okay I'll let me start with the WhatsApp stockfile also just add into that very true summer so one of the first things that was a red flag for the WhatsApp stockfile number one is the fact that it was just people joining a group and in the next changing money there was no agreement in place in terms of signing terms of and conditions of how the stockfile works and it was not formally structured it was money was rotating from one person to another it actually didn't even meet one principle of a stockfile it was just such a pity that at the end of it it was said it was a WhatsApp scope stockfile it was supposed to be called something like WhatsApp scam or something a WhatsApp pyramid because it doesn't meet the requirements of a stockfile having a common goal having a constitution in place having due diligence that you have done on the people that are coming in through a lot of people in those groups with people that that were just taking money and then exiting to go start another group there was no anything in the name of the WhatsApp of the stockfile whether it's a bank account or a financial institution that has been registered with the FSA or any of the regulators in the finance sector so there was just a lot of red flags and usually when so many red flags are they and how it ended it had proven that it was a scam it was a scam from the beginning it's still a scam today and then the second question please remind me what was it about and so the second question was you know can can you join a stockfile even if you don't have source of income so to be honest that's gonna be quite challenging because a stockfile is a putting financial resources together and so when you're not contributing money into it you're gonna you can talk to the people that you are in the stockfile at least to say how you can contribute I think one of the things that stockfiles are that in involving into the future and into the current stockfiles that we are seeing today is that it's not only about putting in money together where it's a collaboration of financial resources financial resources is more than about money it's about the different skills that people are bringing into the group the different networks that the people are bringing into the group the different resources that people are bringing into the group you'd find that um you have a lawyer in the group you've got an accountant in the group uh you've got an administrator in the group you've got a property expect in the group meaning you don't even have to ask for some of the things that you need to structure within your within your within your group uh you you can you can get it from the people that you have collaborated and come together with so in terms of not having income it could be defined in terms of how long are there is a certain stockfile able to to carry with you without an income and what can you offer maybe you are good at doing for keeping that will be your contribution of of the of the of of in the stockfile that the stockfile can can can can can be widely in terms of that so i have seen uh stockfiles that do work like that but you don't need to have an agreement in place and things like period needs to be clear in terms of that and in a clear future plan is that are you planning to do you want to work for the stockfile so that they can actually pay you so those are the options that depending on this on the stockfile that you need to discuss with with the leaders of that stockfile and having something in writing in place for it so yes um uh it it would be hard for a person without any income to to to be part of in order to contribute money but there are other ways of contributing into a stockfile and that is non uh money related because it's a financial resources collaboration and financial there's a lot of things comes with we've got a great question here coming through from on the pillion value in the pillar that's such a beautiful name it's the first time i'm coming across that name um and in the pillars question is if a stockfile has a company plus trust for buying of assets what are some of the options of ensuring say 100 members of the stockfile are beneficiaries of the stockfile without this being an admin nightmare and we're talking about this of a right that some stockfiles are obviously big and you might want to buy via a pty ltd or trust or use a combination of both how do we then ensure that you know first it's not an admin nightmare as indipela has asked but also that we adequately keep track of people's contributions and are clear on then the percentage whether it's dividends pay out that they'll be able to receive i actually know uh hotline dimpile is what he's talking about there is a stockfile that is functioning like that so um one of so the thing is that when there's a lot of people in a stockfile there's one thing that you need to accept from the beginning is the admin that gets into that but the admin is once off so it's a big administrative um uh process uh to get it off the ground in terms of beneficiaries of all 200 and something people and and and and outsourcing that to to to a lawyer that's why a lot of uh legal people like a network of stockfiles and that wanting to either go into a trust or a cooperative first of all they always they always think actually can we rather divide these people into three stockfiles or something like that there you like know the goal is that everybody must be in one so that it's affordable and um this is what we are trying to achieve so um if it means we have to pay you more or pay an administrator in order to get this off the ground let's rather do that so there is no way of really running away from the administrative when you are still setting it up and structuring it but it is a once-off process what if you put it um correctly uh from the beginning in terms of um making sure that um everybody you've got everybody's details everybody's a beneficiary they're uh everybody's being communicated with everybody uh we will have that documentation and they've signed everything that they need to be signed from the beginning because it won't be that every time something happens you need all 200 people to agree to something like the perception that is out there or every time a transaction is to happen all 200 people that day yes in terms of gathering and administrative and making sure that um everything admin wise is done correctly and in place with the help of the lawyer and the and and and the other experts according to your investments that you are making that is an administrative tap once-off administrative task it might take even maybe six months to even while you are already investing into a certain asset to actually get everything in terms of admin because we've got a lot of members but once it is done you are able to function like any other organization or any other business when now the concentration is rather on the board or the committees or the however you are structuring your leadership structure to be able to handle everything else that comes after that but Lisa before I let you go any final tips for our viewers at home when it comes to structuring their stock fall and especially when it just comes to thinking through some of the administrative work that they'll need to do early on because as you've just pointed out the moment you're going to actually even when you're not going to be many because I'm I'm in a solar one even when you're not many you find the admin is there regardless of the size you just find you just need to add more people if they're obviously more of you so these admin regardless so any tips for us in terms of looking at structuring our our stock falls and just thinking through not just the admin loophole but really the best structure given what we say we want to invest in and the kind of returns that are also going to be tax efficient right because I think that's a big thing especially once you look at the numbers and you know the bigger stock falls that you want to use a vehicle or a combination of vehicles that are also going to be as tax efficient as possible so first and foremost is that money money a lot of a lot of times when organizations outside stock falls charge admin fee or or charge some kind of charge that is outside whatever that they are offering it's almost like why you are charging that until you get into this and actually realize that outside the contributions outside the money that you are raising outside the capital that you are you are going to get you are going to invest in a certain asset there is so much money that is needed and a lot of people that get into stock falls whether they are going to formalize into a certain vehicle or stay as a stock fell they are already have their businesses or they already occupy with something else or already employed they're not necessarily going to be looking into this thing alone even if they are experts in that so you need a part to raise specifically for admin or operational expenses for if you are getting into a into the today's stock fell so and this this operational expenses part of fund needs to be quite reasonable because it can run out very quickly you're going to be consulting how to structure your your your your your your your stock fell your the lawyers the accountants the NDAs the SLAs that you're going to you might get it into all those things need money and not little money and a lot of times people end up taking the extra money capital that was raised for the asset to cover operational expenses so the first thing is that you know when they say money talks when you do raise money also raise a lot of money for operational and admin fees of running the whole structure number two is governance and we're going to be looking we're going to be working with a lot of people you almost don't have a a a choice but to have a strong professional governance structure you need to have a correct board according to the vehicle that you are going to be choosing you need to have working committees according to the needs of that are going to be needed in terms of operations of the group so that needs to be clear and and and work according to uh and follow the the the rules of a certain structure so then in terms of of vehicles a lot of people are more familiar with pty because it's the most popular form of of of of of of an illegal entity and a lot of stock sells especially the ones that don't have a lot of people in them go into the pty route because it's what they know and their rules are quite simpler than other other entities so they tend to lean more into that one and also the text that comes with it it seems um it's it's it's more or less um reasonable and what we think that people need to know text is very important when you are choosing these vehicles for example trusts are very expensive um to set up and to maintain so almost uh needing a when you are going to going into a trust as a vehicle they are choosing you almost have to have a budget to be able to to to to run such and not forgetting the text implications that comes with um with a trust and um and then a cooperative also a cooperative it is the most simplest way of getting into a legal entity because it is like a stock fell but it's just that it's a legal and it's a legal entity that can actually invest in in in in in in assets but it also does have its own rules in terms of making sure that uh so they quite very strict cooperatives in terms of um how it should be run you should go exactly like um your constitution and how form of conduct and principles need to go according to the act um otherwise it can be reported that you are not uh operating it uh correctly but in terms of also texts is almost the same as the as the pty and the reason I'm going to text is that a lot of people in stock fells just once they transform into a certain entity they think the text the entity is going to pay that it stays there when you ask them going to get the pay out you still gonna get your personal texts many texts even if you are part of a trust or a pty shareholder or a cooperative shareholder so um depending on the number I will say for example the less people in a stock fell pty most of the time now more people and uh in a in a in a stock fell especially 100 and more uh uh uh cooperative more complicated um not really complicated um way where beneficiaries and have a different uh effort benefit what I like the most about trust last pty setup is the benefits that comes with being beneficiaries of the members themselves so it's almost when you are building generational wealth a lot of people will rather go for the trust one so again it depends on the members uh they are members what they want out of this are they building generational wealth I'll tell you a lot of members if they are most of their common common goal what revolves around I want to leave things this to my to my kids I want to do this I want to make sure my kids is also part of this and uh also most of the time will go for the trust uh issue again also affordability issue a lot of stock fells that wants to be contributing less money wouldn't go for a trust because they want the expense that trust comes with so those need the just the summary and that each I think the one thing that I'll add you know having having had some experience in it is and you touched on it that some stock fell members don't think about how they'll get taxing their individual capacity and let's look at for example an asset based stock fell so a property stock fell um let's say you're 20 or you're even 10 and you are going in as individuals and you're going to have the payout whether it be on a monthly basis after you've of course bought your investment properties and there is some kind of you know payout or it's in an annual basis as much as the the vehicle suppose you're using a PTY is is going to get taxed you as individuals um will also get taxed when you you know get the receive the payout from from the company and sometimes the way around it is for the the membership to be of another company so instead of you being you know the member who gets the money have your company so register a separate company and you're able to use those funds but of course that that just requires you to be slightly creative um and be very clear about what kind of you know funds you're going to receiving and what kind of entity and and that's probably you know a master class session all by itself and unfortunately we have run out of time this evening Balisa uh thank you so much for joining us on the show as usual thank you so much Azama for having made just as long people know that stock falls work and uh it's all depends there's no sites it's all in here and they definitely can't be used to make money work for them and and that is Obalisa Lumolo who's a finance professional at Balino Holdings I can already promise you we're definitely going to have a part two of this conversation uh because stockfiles especially when it comes to structuring them in some of the nitty gritties are so crucial going to squeeze in this banter that's going on on our facebook page uh underneath of course this conversation from Gattekwakhapa saying why can't we see Zamanthoma and Salani Plays saying because her beauty distracts us we can't concentrate on the important info uh so she turned off her camera thank you very much Salani and that's a great note to leave it on this evening uh the team tells me that unfortunately we didn't have a claim this evening uh Upetinsak Osambo didn't message us so the money rolls over tomorrow evening it's going to be 1,000 Fibonadrans in the money bag well it is a Tuesday so you can look forward to the farming podcast that's coming to your screens just now at 8 p.m. I'll be back tomorrow evening until then hoping you stay home and stay safe Balisa thank you so much thank you thank you Zamanthoma that was fantastic that was great we definitely need a part two because it's one of those great topics