 we started to engage with startups and companies very high tech, but also very small, very lean, very agile. We started to share with them our standard contracts, and they were like, I can't read it. I don't have a legal department. I don't know how to start. I will waste all the cash that I have just to get someone to translate to me your 100-page procurement contract. It doesn't make sense. So that was very quick for us to realize that the type of process have to run to purchase an aircraft parts from an aircraft supplier has nothing to do with what we need when we're talking about open innovation and exploring new markets or new opportunities. Welcome to Transformation Talk. I'm Tyru Hassan, the director of Brightline at the Project Management Institute, PMI, and our talk today is about disruption. And we are asking really an existential question. It's not the usual to be or not to be, but what we are asking today is to disrupt or to be disrupted. That is the question. And then maybe we might like it or we may not like it. What we know though is the only constant is change. And I know you've heard it before. And in today's world where we are in a VUCA environment, companies need to make tough decisions about whether to be disrupted or actually to be a disruptor. So it is a choice that companies would have to make. And volatility is becoming the norm. Uncertainty about the future is rampant. We don't know what tomorrow will be, let alone 10 years from now. Complexity is becoming a new reality. And ambiguity is raining supreme. And today we are about to hear a great story, Embraer's story, and how Embraer is crafting extraordinary features while at the same time exercising ambidextrous thinking. As I mentioned before, the choice to disrupt or to be disruptive is a strategic one. It is a strategic decision that organizations have to make. It requires leaders to think creatively, but at the same time courageously, because again, it's not simple about what that future would be. We are really privileged to welcome Daniel Mochidlova, who is president and CEO of Embraer X, as well as head of Global Innovation Ecosystem at Embraer. Now, let me just say some few words about Daniel. Daniel studied chemical engineering, so I'm kind of close to his club, but on the civil side, civil engineering. And he began his career as a process engineer at CHEP ChemTech, where he held successful positions and rose to the role of a CEO in 2010. He then moved on to join Embraer in 2013 as president and CEO of a back then new Embraer system business unit. And then he moved on in several roles, Vice President Technology Development, Executive Vice President Engineering and Technology, and in 2020, a special milestone where he became CEO of Embraer X, the Embraer's disruptive innovation company. He at the same time was also head of Corporate Innovation and Digital Transformation at Embraer. And this year, in addition to his role with Embraer X, his role was expanded to cover global innovation ecosystem at Embraer SA. I need to say, of course, I met Daniel that was last year at the Web Summit in Lisbon. We were at the Corporate Innovation Summit and we had really a nice conversation. And I was saying, oh, Daniel, we talked that you were having the insight that you were giving. I think we can benefit from it at Transformation Talk. So I reached out back to Daniel a month ago and the rest is history. Here we are today, just about to have a great Transformation Talk. Welcome, Daniel. Thank you. Thank you so much. Tahiro is such a privilege to be talking today to all of you. So thanks so much for the invitation. We have a very close relationship connection with PMI. I'm going to cover a bit about it. So I felt really honored to have the chance to share some thoughts with you and share some of the learnings along our journey. I think you just opened up with a perfect introduction on the strategic decision that all of us, we need to make in our companies, in our organizations, and how tough it is to exercise the ambidextrous to you or to become, in reality, an ambidextrous organization. It's really a tough job. I mean, if we could all choose, if we had the magic wand and could transform ourselves into ambidextrous organizations, that would be great. But that's not how things work in practice. You have people, culture, processes that are all streamlined to serve your existing customers, to serve your existing stakeholders, and to, of course, fulfill the mission of your core business. So when we start talking about disruption, that's a big challenge. It really requires us to use all of our creativity and to exercise, let's say, different parts of the company brain to tackle such challenges and address such may it be threats or maybe opportunities. So I hope the story I'm going to be sharing with you today will bring you some insights or at least raise some interesting questions. And from our side, we're still working on the questions. So any help we can get with the answers will be very, very much welcome. So just a quick introduction about who we are, right? It's nice to have some context to the talk today and the kind of experience we've been building. So our company is called Embraer. We are the third largest manufacturer of aircraft globally for commercial aviation. We have a number one market share in what we call the regional aviation market. So if you happen to live in North America or Europe and you travel regional, not between two big hubs, but between a mid-sized city or smaller city to another mid-sized or to a hub, it is very likely you have already flown one of our models, which are manufactured in San José, Brazil. We are also active in business aviation. And then we are one of the top three, top four players in this market. And our product portfolio has been very successful. We have one particular aircraft called the Fino 300, which happens to be the best selling aircraft in number of units in this market for 11 years in a row. So it's 11 times the champion in sales for this segment. And different from commercial aviation, our final assembly line for this product is actually located in Florida, a city called Melbourne by the coast, one hour drive from Orlando. That's where we assemble our executive jets and make them ready for delivery to customers. We are also active in defense and military customers. We serve about 60 different air forces around the globe. So of course, our main customer here is the Brazilian Air Force. The Brazilian armed force is also the Navy and the Army, but we provide solutions to armed forces around the globe, 60 plus countries. There is another funny looking aircraft you can see in this slide, but I'll come back to it later. I won't spoil it, but it's what is maybe what the future will look like for many of us who live in the big metropolis, big cities of the world. Embraer today, we are about 18,000 people globally. So the majority of the team is based in Brazil, South America, but we have big teams, more than 1,000 people in the USA. As I said, Florida is a big, big location for us manufacturing facility. More than 1,000 people in Portugal, Europe, also present in the Netherlands. And of course, around all the world, we need to be close to where our customers operate. So we have maintenance, repair centers, distribution bases, pretty much all around planet Earth. If we go about our history, there's 50 plus years of history. I believe Embraer is now 53 years old. So we've been around for quite some time. We have already delivered more than 8,000 aircraft in all those different segments to more than 100 countries. And we have a nice statistic that every 10 seconds, one of our aircraft is taking off somewhere around the globe. And of course, we are committed to support and serve all of the airlines and customers flying our aircraft. Just to close my context, I want to make a special reference to our latest family of jets for commercial aviation. We call the E2 family. We have three jets, depending on the size and capacity, the E175E2, which is still under development, but the E192 and the E195E2 have already been launched in the market. They are flying for companies such as KLM, City Hopper in Europe, and now Porter Airlines in Canada, but also serving US. This is, you know, the latest technology, 25% lower carbon emissions than the previous family. 30% less noise is quite amazing to be close to the airport or to the runway when one of these aircraft is taken off because you can hardly hear the takeoff. It's amazing technology. So very comfortable, no middle seats. You only pick window or aisle seats. So that's our configuration. And the E2 was the winner of the PMI Global Project of the Year award. It's a global award, as many of you may know, that is a cross sector award. And 2019, that was the first time that a aviation company was the winner of this prestigious award. It had never happened in the history of the award that aviation industry would be the winner. And was the first time a company from Brazil was the winner. So two firsts for the success of the program management for the E2. We are, of course, very, very proud. It's today one of the prizes that we have received in our history that we are proudest about exactly because we competed with each and every industry all over the globe. And we were honored with this recognition. But there's a reason why aviation had never been the winner before us. Our industry is not very famous for complying with budget plans and schedule plans. It's very typical to see on the contrary, schedule overruns, budget overruns. It's plagued with this. It's very complex. We have a certification process that is mandated by regulators globally that adds a lot to the development cycle. The number of tests and verification that is required to meet the very high standards of safety of the industry is very tough. So Embraer is pretty much the benchmark of the industry. And we believe the PMI Best of the Best prize was kind of the highest recognition we ever received for managing so well our latest family that was launched in the market. Of course, 50 years learning to get there. And we, of course, had to face delays and budget issues in previous programs. But I believe we've been learning a lot. And when it comes to incremental innovation and improving our processes, our core business is really, really streamlined. And that's something we are very proud of. But now let's shift the conversation to the other extreme of ambidextrous. Let's go now look what happens in our industry and why it's important for us to think beyond the core business. And this chart presents an indicator that we believe is the best we have for effectiveness of our innovation efforts. And it speaks a lot to Embraer being the benchmark of our industry when it comes to program management and project management. We can see here the percentage of our annual revenues that arises from innovations either in products or services that were introduced in the past five years. But keep in mind the typical cycle of development for our industry is a 10 year cycle. So when you are starting to test an idea to develop a new technology, a new product to go all the way to certify that product and receive the stamp from the authorities to be capable to sell, to deliver that technology to market, the typical cycle of our industry is an eight to 10 year cycle. We are operating on a much shorter cycle, five to six years. That's why this indicator is so remarkable that about 40 or 50% of our revenue today is the result of innovations we introduced in the past five years. Of course, we are very proud about this figure, but it also makes us a bit nervous when we imagine what our life will look like five years in the future. Because it tells us if we stop by any reason, any crisis, for any reason, if we slow down on our innovation efforts, the impact may come very, very soon. And we could be half the size we are today in a short timeframe if we are not capable to keep up with this rhythm. So that's the flip side. And that's a huge challenge for us. But that's one of the things that help us to feel the sense of urgency. When we talk about innovation at Embraer, pretty much everybody in the company, from the board of directors to the plant floor operator, we all understand we're talking about survival and perpetuity of our company. And maybe because our market is so competitive and has already left many victims along the way, very competent companies like Fokker from the Netherlands, Dornier from Germany, Taab from Sweden, Lockheed Martin in the US, they all exited the commercial aviation business just as an example of very strong, very competent companies with a lot of backing from their local government and strong industrial policies, and they couldn't survive this market. How can a company the size of Embraer be a survivor in a market like this, right? In this red ocean with a lot of blood in the water? We are smaller than most of our key suppliers. We are smaller than most of our key customers. So it's kind of a no-brainer for us that we rely on our partners. We depend on open innovation to survive. So of course we have a very important role in the ecosystem to orchestrate the partners around building a product that our customers will desire, right? But we know it's about connecting with suppliers, universities, research institutes, governmental funding agencies, customers, you name it. We need to orchestrate this ecosystem and behave as a good partner, as a company that other players will prefer to partner with so that we can leverage on all the know-how, the intelligence, and the resources that are outside of our company to accelerate our innovation efforts. And this has been so far, I can tell you, a part of who we are, part of who we operate ever since the foundation of Embraer. We've been recognized several times as the most innovative company in Brazil and one of the most innovative in our industry. And of course we've always been very proud about that. But we also thought maybe because of our size, right, as I compared to key customers, key suppliers, we managed to keep ourselves humble, to understand that no matter how successful we may be, the future, as Tahiro said, is moving, is uncertain, is complex. And this is true and this is maybe more true now than ever before. And maybe especially in our industry that is about to be transformed. We are on the verge of a big disruption in terms of technology, in terms of customer expectation. Society is challenging aviation to get to carbon neutrality. And that's a really tough job to do in aviation because we need to be talking materials, light solutions, anything we're going to be used as an energy storage solution. We'll need to take off carrying such energy storage solutions. So just to give an example, right, if we're talking about a battery in aviation, you use the same level of technology that is already running today in electric cars, you're going to use all the energy the battery can store just to take off with the weight of the battery itself. So you're going to be using energy just to fly batteries around and no more room to accommodate passengers or cargo because the battery itself is too heavy. So just an example to illustrate how tough it is for our industry to cope with what we need to deliver in terms of value and transformation. But it's going to happen. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. And this is opening up the entire industry to newcomers, to new ideas, to new technologies, and to disruption. We realize that with a big dose of being humble about six, seven years ago, that the world was changing faster than we were being capable to adapt to. So even though we've always been a fast follower, a company that was very fast to adapt new technologies to our products, we realized that maybe we were not being fast enough, or at least not anymore. And we had to challenge ourselves to think with a different kind of mindset. One thing that contributed a lot to that perception was our series of visits to Silicon Valley, immersion in the Silicon Valley ecosystem, many, many talks to innovation gurus like Mr. Steve Blank and others, discussions with innovative companies, with startups, with risk capital investors. We went way beyond the boundaries of aviation and aerospace industry to try and understand the pace that innovation was accelerating to in different industries. And we started to capture some signals. And now I'm taking you back to the past. Let's take a time machine and travel back to when we had all of those perceptions. We started to read and to see autonomous cars taking to the streets like the Google Waymo project. Companies start up like TeraFuja talking about flying cars, trying to create a future that reminded us of the Jetsons cartoon from the 60s. The hyperloop concept to connect the cities and maybe replace regional aviation, who knows. Airbnb disrupting the travel industry, the largest company in the industry without owning a single property or Netflix disrupting streaming, Spotify disrupting the way we consume music. You see many digital platforms in our examples, Amazon disrupting retail and really making the consumer experience much smoother and simple intuitive. So these were all signals we were reading, right? Tesla with energy storage. So you combine all of those signals and you see a clear convergence of new business models, new technologies that it was just a matter of time before they would hit us and would hit us hard. And because of the nature of most of those technologies, our company where the niche market where we operate is the ideal candidate to be the first victim of such disruption. Because you know, may you talk about battery-powered flights or fuel cells, it will all start from the bottom. It will start from smaller aircraft for shorter distance. It will take much longer time to impact the long haul flights or the big aircraft that are flying across in the oceans. This is not our market. Our market is really one hour flight, two hour flight, maybe three hour flight, but it's a smaller type of aircraft. That is exactly where the disruption will start. And that's when we had to ask ourselves the question, do we want to monitor all of this and keep waiting for someone to come up with a solution and make us the victim of the disruption? Or do you want to take a different type of risk and invest some of our resources to try and be ourselves the disruptor of our own core business? And we decided to take the second path and this led us to the decision to create a company called Embraer X. The mission of Embraer X is to really be a market accelerator to accelerate those new futures and you know, craft such extraordinary futures today. Start thinking today, what can we do or should we be doing to make those futures viable and bring them to reality sooner? It is a strategy that mixes some defense with some attack, right, to make a comparison here with sports or military, you choose. But defense is about protecting ourselves from threats and try to provide the big organization with some early warnings about what's about to happen that may require some response from our core business. And when we talk about attack, this is about really taking on some of those opportunities. Let's invest and let's be ourselves the disruptor for some of those opportunities where we believe we bring value, we have a right to play and a right to win in this market. So that's how it all started from, you know, strategic, conceptual, very deep discussion. And of course, then we set ourselves to identify so what, which would be those first opportunities or initiatives that Embraer X would pursue. And as the slide already gives it up, we decided to focus our initial efforts on urban mobility. It is really something that people here in Brazil feel the pain in Sao Paulo, in Rio, and it's the same pain in Mexico City is the same pain in Los Angeles, New York City, Manhattan, Paris, London, you know, Tokyo, Shanghai, you name it. That that's one of the big headaches of our time. And it's not going to get, you know, better because as time passes, more and more people are migrating to live in the big cities or around the big cities. So this is the kind of solution in future we imagine. For Eve, mobility is not just about routes, solutions, or infrastructure. It's about people. We think of mobility as the key to making life more fluid and cities friendlier. We can reduce distances, but also increase the quality of time for everyone, all of this in a practical, accessible and smart way. With a passion for innovation and a collaborative mindset, we have reimagined the possibilities of mobility to enable what matters, human connections, and we do it in a safe and sustainable way for everyone, everywhere. Eve, mobility reimagined. This is the future, the extraordinary future we first imagined. We dreamt of a battery-powered vehicle, zero emissions, very silent, very cost efficient, that could impact positively the lives of billions, billions of humans like us around the planet. And in our dream, we're not talking about VIP passengers, very high net worth individuals, not at all. We're talking about the emerging middle classes of the world, you know, the big social economic revolution we've been seeing in recent decades with the rise of China, rise of India, even countries like Brazil, Mexico, South Africa and many others that are joining us as humankind, fortunately, is improving our, you know, level of income and ways of living. We want to make aviation accessible to all of those people. That's our target, that's our dream. We want to democratize aviation the same way, you know, the jet age allowed many people to fly, which was, you know, before that something for a very small group of people, only an elite could afford to travel long distances. Today is much more accessible. Here we are taking it to the next level. We want everybody who can afford today a taxi ride and Uber rides for the same order of magnitude of, you know, price tickets, you can choose instead of being stuck two hour, three hour in traffic jam, you pay the same price, and you fly to your destination, shortening the time to 10 minutes or 15 minutes. So that's the urban air mobility future we dreamt of. The vehicle, the EVTOL electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft is the most visible part of the ecosystem, but you know, it's just one piece of the puzzle. We are working on the air traffic management system, the stopters, the verty ports, the infrastructure, electric chargers, a charging technology, power distribution. We're not going to do all of that. We are focusing on the vehicle and their traffic management system, the software, and we are assembling partners from all over the world and all different sectors to make this ecosystem a reality, to be capable to start in a few more years. I'm not talking the distant future. I'm talking this decade. Our target is about 2026, 2027 to start flying, you know, the first routes in a city like Miami in this example from international airports to, you know, Miami Beach downtown. And that will evolve a long time when we have multiple verty ports and multiple routes operating. Each of those flights is about 10 minutes flight, but you're flying over traffic, and we are giving time back to people. This initiative matured so fast and so successfully that in 2020, a few years after we started, we decided to spun off the company, the studies, the research we were doing, the conceptual studies became a company that we named Eve Air Mobility. And last year, May last year, I had the honor to be one of the guys ringing the bell in Wall Street, New York Stock Exchange, when we went for an IPO off Eve. The company was born, valued almost $3 billion, so more than two unicorns, all at once. And it's approximately the same market cap of the mother company, Embraer. So that's a very nice and maybe shocking example of what disruptive, disruptive innovation can bring to the table, right? We're still working on the design. We're not making revenues yet. The product is set to hit the market in a few years time, but the market already recognizes that Eve may become the Tesla of aviation. And that's why the spun off company is already valued almost the same as the mother company. If we decided not to do it and pass it on the opportunity, maybe somebody else would be doing it and gaining all the knowledge on electric flying mobility, which is a big disruptive threat to our industry. I'll wrap up by mentioning that was not the only project we embraced it when we launched Embraer X. We also started to research and investigate another type of pain that all of us will fly a lot are familiar with, unfortunately. This is not a pride of our industry, but we know we have an issue with delays and cancellations. And we started to, you know, try to deploy everything we learned about the power of digital platforms and platform-based business solutions to try and change the situation and make our customers, the airlines, much more efficient. That's when we come up with this platform called Bitcoin, is the name of the product, to streamline the coordination of all the activities around maintenance and operations of an airline or a fleet of aircraft. May it be an airplane or helicopter or in the future, EV-TOLS. We're now positioning ourselves to become, you know, either the Uber or the Amazon of the maintenance market in aviation, bringing 21st Century Tools to address a challenge that to this day is still addressed mainly with past century tools. So just a, you know, very quick pitch on this digital platform, Bitcoin, and thinking about what's next for Embraer X, we now closed a first cycle in our initiative as a whole, as an incubation and accelerator initiative with the spin-off of EV and the launch of Bitcoin. We're now challenging ourselves with what are we going to be focusing on next. It will be connected to sustainability, integrated mobility, and of course, flying systems, drones, cargo drones. That's what we are investigating right now. Everything, you know, strategically aligned with the Embraer mother company's innovation verticals. These are the key themes and technologies we believe will completely transform and reinvent our industry. So of course, when we pick our new disruptive business opportunities, we align with such innovation verticals as presented in this slide. And my final slide, we are still learning. It's a fairly recent, I would say history, the one of Embraer X, not Embraer's. Embraer is more than 50 years, but Embraer X is still, you know, five years old, so still a child, and we're still learning. But we're learning about the value of the innovation when we think about it from outside in and not the opposite, to be really humble and really open to learn from the outside of your core business, outside of your sector, outside of your country. There's a lot of power in this approach. Ambidextrous strategy, something that we committed to is not a battle. I can say it's already won. We have to keep fighting every day. Whenever we face a crisis, a short term, you know, pressure, the core business is always going to be stronger. How can we keep the disruptive innovation alive? As I tell you, it's a never-ending battle. How do we protect a minimal level of investment in innovation? That's very important. A concept that we learned is the affordable loss. That's how we budget for Embraer X is the affordable loss is a money that we know is very noble because we are not promising the return. But if everything goes wrong, it has to be small enough not to jeopardize the survival, the perpetuity of the company. To act multilevel and involving partners, to be aware of distractions because, you know, in innovation world, there are so many interesting opportunities and partnerships and talks. But in the end, it's about aligning with your strategy. Where do you really add value as a partner? Where can you make a difference? That should be a filter to separate distractions from what are going to be the big bets. And of course, it is all about people. We can't achieve anything if we're not thinking about the impact we want to create to people's lives, to people who will be involved in creating such impact, people who are going to be the decision makers, the executors, the consumers. It's all about people in each and every aspect of innovation. And that's a summary of some of the lessons we've learned in our journey so far. So we hope this was insightful for you. Again, an honor to share a bit of our strategy and our history with all of you. And the invitation is open to all of those who want to join us to craft extraordinary futures. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much, Daniel. Wow. What an insightful presentation it has been here. And I could see that people may be having questions. I could see the conversation in the chat here. Daniel, I want to get that one question that comes often. Because when you are a large company existing, and then you want to do something new, there is that notion of, of course, balancing what you have today, and then also innovating and creating something new. And then the risk that is there about alienating the existing customers. Because, okay, you are good at doing this. You want to do something new. So then the existing customers are saying that thing new that you want to do. We're not so sure. So I'm seeing a trend where it is this time and brand X, I mean, Google X, there is the offshoot that is created to being like the disruptive post. How would that compare with, let's say, a whole new company? There's a Tesla coming in, and there was no Tesla X. There was Tesla coming in, and then actually tackling the existing business. So what's your view on that? That ambidextrity that is needed from someone that is coming completely from outside versus someone who is inside and is creating that new entity and wanting that entity to kind of thrive, innovate, and then break barriers and so on. Tell us more on that front. Thank you. Thank you, Tahir. Your question is perfect in that it does describe how difficult it is for an incumbent company to become a disruptor, to be really truly ambidextrous. It's very, very tough. The typical disruptor is not the incumbent, the company that is already successful in a given call business. The disruptor is typically either the startup, the new corporation, someone coming from the outside. This is a concept that in my experience, the book where this is best described is called the innovators dilemma from Professor Clayton Christensen. For me it's the Bible of innovation because that's where disruptive innovation was defined the best way. We're very concrete case studies that explain how tough it is for a well-established company to become a disruptor. Clayton Christensen was one of the gurus that we talked about when we decided to create Embraer X. One of the reasons we were motivated to embrace this challenge was when Professor Christensen told us back then, well, I'm not an expert, but from what I know of your market of aviation, if there is one company that has the capability or is in a nice spot to become a disruptor, I believe this company is Embraer. And we were so proud to hear it from the father of the concept of disruptive innovation. But the best answer I think I can give to you, Tahiro, is that on a daily basis any company that is already established and running a successful call business, there will be what I call innovation antibodies. There will be many decision makers and I'm talking about very talented people, very experienced people that are very valuable to the company. They will legitimately argue you're wasting money for no reason, that you are distracting the top management, that you are even from a shareholder perspective, if you are diversifying too far away from your core, you may get pushbacks from your shareholders. The owners of the company may tell you, wait a minute, that's not why I invested in you. That's not the share I purchased. I trust Embraer because you make good regional aircraft. Why are you now speaking to me about, I don't know, renewable energy? So it is not an easy task, I can assure you. But if we can combine the concept of the affordable loss that I mentioned and we have a good story about both the opportunities and the threats that are lying out there and we can present interesting cases that we are seeing happening in other industries. Sometimes organizations, and it's very human, right? Organizations that are run by people, they only make decisions out of fear. Sometimes it's more than the appetite for what you can win, but it's the fear of what you can lose. And if we can show some very concrete examples of companies that let some opportunity pass, maybe Kodak is the classical example, right? They developed digital photography but decided not to pursue. So we are seeing more and more examples like that. In the past was just one or two cases. Today you can name so many cases in so many industries that it becomes clear that there is a risk in the decision not to take higher risk. So this is a bit of the speech and the discussion we have, but to be very honest with all of you, as I said, the battle is not won. Even after the big success case of Eve, we still have to convince the core business and the decision makers each and every day. Why are you still pursuing something that is so high risk, so high uncertainty? Is it really worth it? And those questions are absolutely legitimate. It's up to the entrepreneurs, to the innovators to find the right answers. And I can say it could be challenging. Imagine you working up every day trying to create something new, innovating, facing challenging, succeeding, failing, and then part of the business is still asking, is it worth investing there? Let's move to, I think we have more questions than we can answer today, but let's move to a quick question and we are happy about that actually. Thank you for sending this question our way. So Kevin is having a question about, can you speak to your open innovation procurement strategy, specifically your open innovation ecosystem, engagement, scoping, contracting approach that support early innovation, development effort, when many of the detail are still nebulous and when speed and agility to start the collaboration is very important. So how do you build that ecosystem around you when sometimes some of the discussions are not right and so on? That's a great question. That's a great question. And one of the very first lessons we learned after, you know, establishing Embraer X, we started to engage with startups and, you know, companies very high tech, but also very small, very lean, very agile. We started to share with them our standard contracts and they were like, I can't read it. I don't have a legal department. I don't know how to start. I will waste all the cash that I have just to get someone to translate to me your 100 page, you know, procurement contract. It doesn't make sense. So that was very quick for us to realize that the type of process have to run to purchase an aircraft parts from an aircraft supplier has nothing to do with what we need when we're talking about open innovation and exploring new markets or new opportunities. So that was one of the first efforts that we undertook, which was to negotiate with our compliance department, procurement department, you know, we brought the teams together, explain to them what we were trying to accomplish, why that was so important to the company. Of course, we had some top down supports to have such discussions. And in the end, we came up with a completely different process to address, you know, the need of open innovation. That's one of the reasons we decided to establish a separate company, you know. And this is a very difficult choice to make, because there is another risk on the other side of the spectrum. If you do everything too far apart from your core business, too far apart from your mother company, in the end, who are you? What are you bringing to the table? If you lose the leverage that your core competence, that your core business can bring to the table, in the end, you're, you know, you're not such a good partner at all. You're just someone else trying to get something done out of scratch. So you have to find a balance in between, you know, what is the right distance that a disruptive innovation initiative must have as compared to the core business? If you are too close, you will be overburned, overwhelmed, and, you know, never prioritized. If you are too far, you miss the leverage that your cooperation can bring to the table. With Embraer-Ex, I believe we made a nice choice to be, you know, halfway. So we had outposts in Silicon Valley, in Boston, in Europe. So we were not in Brazil, and that was a decision we took on purpose. We had this distance. But if you look at the people, the team, it was half and half. Half were Embraer old-timers, people who knew the organization very well, already had a very strong network of connections inside the company. The other half, brilliant people, very talented, we brought from the outside. That, you know, kind of half and half strategy paid off nicely in our vision. Because then you have the ability to challenge the processes, like procurement, and try to come up with something that, you know, would work for open innovation, but it's at the same time, not something that will be treated as a heresy by the core business, and nobody will get arrested because of it. And it's not impossible. I guarantee you that. We have a very strong compliance program, but everything we did, we were capable to get the compliance approval and stamp, because they understood we were operating in a different environment. Let me put, thank you, Daniel. Let me put a short question here, like one by Karen, and she's asking, was management seeing both signs proactively in 2016, or did they need to be convinced or persuaded? You know, 2016, it looks like you went to Silicon Valley and you, like, was it more proactive, or did you have to, I mean, challenge to convince them? Yeah, we took about a year and a half, two years. Marco, who is together with me here, he lived that history. It was not an easy sell, right? But we were fortunate to have some great visionary entrepreneurs, innovators in our company, and I can tell you that, because that was not one of them. I was an antibody at the time. I was heading the technology division, and I was like back then, what are these guys doing? I mean, why are they, you know, proposing to invest so much money in something that is so risky? I was sitting on the other side of the table. Today, with the benefit of hindsight, I can look back and say what an amazing job they did to convince the top decision makers. They were capable to take even the CEO of the company to, you know, be immersed in Silicon Valley for an entire week. It's a tough challenge given the CEO's agenda, right? And most of the vice presidents of the core business units, they were there as well. So that helped to create a consensus that we needed to move. We needed to do something differently, but it was not like, you know, neither a top-down decision, not something that bottom-up we could convince very fast. It really took us a significant effort to build that level of awareness in the organization, and then the decision became mature and we received the mandate and the backing and the budget that we needed to get the initiative started. Yeah, thank you so much, Daniel. I mean, I see the questions and I want to go over, but I know time is up. Time is up. So, I mean, thank you. I mean, Carl, Luciano, Patrick, Margaret, and I mean, Eric, Diane, and Carlos for all the great questions received. There's a way we can get back to you on these questions. Before moving on, Daniel, just giving you the floor for some closing remarks. There were many questions, but as you're closing, maybe you can touch one or so. I wanted to ask you yourself. I would love to receive the questions, Tahiru, if you could share with me later so that I can follow up with the team who joined it. Thank you so much for listening and for the questions and the many, many comments I'm trying to follow up here in the chat. I'm really honored to have you and to hear from you that it's been insightful. I'll just repeat myself that it's always going to be an uphill battle. That's a characteristic of people who work on disruptive innovation and diversification initiatives, trying to break the silos, do things away or different from the core business. There is so much value and what I can tell you from experiences, even though it's hard and we get to hear much more notes before we get to any, yes, if any, but when we are capable to make at least one of such initiatives come to fruition, oh my God, it is so rewarding. It really pays off for all the pain you've been through. That's how an entrepreneur's mind has to work. It's a bit like a doctor, I assume. It's a tough life, the one of doctors. No matter how brilliant they are, how hard they work, they will lose many lives along the way, but I'm sure that each and every life they're capable to save has tremendous value and pays off for everything they do. With innovation and entrepreneurship, I believe it's the same and when we are capable to build a story like Yves or the other one I shared, Beacon, it makes us so proud and we hope it will inspire the next innovators and entrepreneurs to come and I hope I've been capable to give you some inspiration today. So thank you, Alex. Thank you. The jury, you heard it. I mean, the answer was very clear, resounding, yes, so thank you so much and the concept of affordable loss and so on. So thank you all for joining us from across the globe. We'll be back for Transformation Talk next month. You'll hear from us soon and we look forward to keep the conversation going on. We look forward to have more transformative undertaking being successful and really, I mean, for me, a great concept today is the affordable loss. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Daniel, and all the best.