 And I will as chair of the subcommittee by default. I will call. I will call the committee meeting to order by making sure that the three members can hearing hearing be heard. Jonathan. Good morning. And Rupert Rupert thanks for getting. Yes, I'm here. That's all right. John had a prior out of. A prior meeting and couldn't be here. So. Thank you, everyone. If I, I count. Let me just see whether I'm just checking. If anyone. If I see any other committee members joining as a participant, I think they were invited as panel. I'll bring them in. If I see them otherwise. But I am trying it over to the. And there is. There is a feedback from somewhere. I think that would probably be our excited office. So. Can you maybe put a, put a little sign up saying. In meeting or something. Sorry. Because you're doing the talking. I think, I think it's Tim's fancy earbuds and also. A traffic noise. Yeah. We carved out little, little rooms out of our interior designers library to. These things. Yeah. Well, the problem is, is that. We have multiple screens. And so we, for this, for this purpose, a lot of times I don't take them in our conference rooms. Yeah. All right, Tim. Sorry about that. We get excited here. Yeah. I'm basically hoping to pick up the conversation. Where we left off last week. Kathy. Can you enable. Sure. Yeah, let me do the enable. I believe I did. Thank you. We were working around the building, look at different elements, how we were going to define the volumes of the music room. The administration suite, the entrance. We were working in the area that is. The in-house area of the museum. Where we could potentially locate. Art and work it into the facade. And we just want to pick up that conversation. Now, as we get into this. This is one of the. In addition to the gym, which we did illustrate, we pointed out that there could be a mural on the music room. building on the north side of the site. Another option that we're looking at for where we could place art in addition to how we're going to articulate the music room is as shown here on the library. There was a brief discussion about, you know, where the most people could see it, whether or not it would create confusion with the front door but was at the music room and too close. So there's other views that show the art on the library but we just want to point it out here because it sort of pops in this image and this is just a study of how to articulate the music room in the same language as some of the other features in the building using that folded plane that defines the roof and turns down at the end of the program at volume. The glass is still facing north with a little bit to the west which will allow a lot of glare free light into the music room and then this is illustrated with two basic materials. It's a single skin metal panel and a masonry which we've been using as the field but that's not to say what is rendered as the light color, the default color, Jonathan's word stuck in my head, couldn't be the lighter masonry or a different lighter masonry. So here is what that version of the music room looks like in the context of the larger building and another angle view up close that allows you to see in how much glass there is, how much someone occupying the room would be able to see out and then the folded plane that represents the canopy, the roof edge, the end of the volume sort of separates it a little bit from the cafeteria entrance. Here's just a straight on view so you can understand the composition from every direction. Tim, how do you want us to react? Do you want us to compare the... I think these conversations work great when you just jump in and say you love it or you hate it at any time. Hopefully this is a design discussion. I hear Jonathan laughing a little bit because he knows how that can go. So anything that you have a question about see and love or hate, please just jump in and let us know and then we can get into that point further or just take the feedback. Okay, I'll wait to see Hans, but could you go back to the first one that didn't have the metal panel? I just want to see it. That version? Yeah. So that is just the location for the art. It has some glass, the metal edge roof coming down around and then masonry. And the white that is under the overhang, is that brick? This was based on the SD set or a version of it and it was single skin, but it could also be brick. When I say single skin, I'm referring to the lowest end of the panelized metal system. So it's more expensive than masonry, but it is at the very low end of the metal panel systems, similar to the brick metal roof edge that we would be using. But as we've said a couple times before and we continue to believe this, the backup wall behind all of these systems is the same. And so we're looking to develop a composition, you know, dark and light, solid void. And then unless you're doing some geometry where you have overhangs or stuff like that, pretty much anything can be masonry. I think it's a little bit more difficult where you're over large expanses of glass because you have to support the brick. So you have to have a relieving angle that's tied to structure so that in detailing and cost there is a minor item there. But for the most part, as we think and look at elevation studies that we like or don't like, you can operate under the assumption that the materials like dark can be masonry or some other material. Okay, so then I have a basic question then. And then I would, like Jonathan and Rupert, I have an opinion, but I want to hear others. Sure. Is over time do, does the single skin metal, I can use all the words, wear well in terms of if it were white, would it, there's some surfaces at UMass that have these brown drips on them. You know, I don't know how, you know, it's weather. And I think they were supposed to do that. I mean, it was our architectural feature. So versus brick, and then the white versus the dark, I'm liking the white better than the dark on this north side. So it's a question of coloring over time. So a couple questions in there that the single skin metal panel is durable. It is light fast. It is essentially the same finish as you would have on the mullions for curtain wall or window system. If you're talking about where buildings are detailed such that water drips on the facades. Yes, it will discolor, but as will masonry or anything else. The only durability issue about a single skin panel is we wouldn't want to use it at the ground level probably very close to a main entrance or a door. A person running into it would not damage it, but a snowblower or a cart or something like that certainly could dent it in not an issue that you would have with masonry. And Tim, not to jump in a little bit here, but in all truth, it's not going to be a straight up white either in the end, because most of these things don't come in what we'd all think of as kind of a pure white there. They started at a light mid-tone kind of gray most of them. And Jonathan is absolutely correct. It is very hard to sort of render the neutral architectural materials, metals, aluminum, stuff like that, grays. So sometimes in the images they look as white, you should... Nothing is going to be refrigerator white. Not refrigerators are white anymore, but nothing is going to be white like that. Okay, Rupert has his hand up. Rupert, you've got to unmute. Okay, there we go. Yeah, I've been thinking about this question about whether art would draw people to someplace that wasn't an entrance and how big of an issue that is. And I have sort of a conceptual question for people who do this for their living, which is can we use the folded plane as a signal for entrances all around the building, and would you think that might suffice to direct folks towards entrances? I think we are moving that way in terms of language. We are also using the folded plane to define volumes as rendered currently. The folded plane at the main entrance is orange. The folded plane at the south bus drop off entrance is a similar view and then we are working it in at the north. So a combination of repeating that element and the geometry and using the material or color to signify different things, I think is what we're working toward and hoping to get a language that is clear in terms of... A building should not be confusing in terms of where you go in, what the door is, what the function is. So hopefully we'll get to that point. Jonathan. Yeah, while it's something I want to make sure that is clear, I'm feeling like you're working in that direction and that our main entrance with the pop of color, with the column, I think there's a distinctiveness there. I also think the site plan is going to focus us in that way. I realize that the site plan isn't done and the views we're looking at may not even necessarily capture the current state of that, but there are ways that the paving and the patterning can also reinforce and focus a new arrival, someone who has never met the site, their attention on the right place. Can you move a couple more images forward? There we go. So I actually really like this version. My only reservation with it is that the art seems a little removed. Part of me wants to also then have some other place where it might be more accessible. Another piece of art might be more accessible, especially for little kids to kind of get up close to it a little bit, but I do like the way that the roof forms and the overhangs and kind of everything seems to be getting kind of tied together in this approach. And my only question on it is, you just said, Jonathan, then unless you're standing away from the building, well, short people wouldn't be able to see it, but little kids definitely not. And to the extent you get tired of whatever that is, and if it's tile it's durable, but the one that's on Fort River now looks to me like if they decided to change the current school. If they decided to change it, it would be easy. So thinking in terms of this is where you start. But one other point about the art is if we said art could go here, art could go there, and then we did a few more, we don't have to pre-decide, except for Denisco and company telling us, if you want art to go there, we'd need a different surface behind it. We can't put the single skin metal behind it, it has to be brick. So if it has implications, so I like the idea of designating potential areas and then getting a broader input on what it might be and where, rather than designing a specific place to accommodate art, where if we decide not to put it there, you wouldn't. So with this gray single skin, if you wouldn't put art on that, then you've removed that as a possibility. If you can just as easily put art on that as you put it on brick. So am I being clear by what I'm saying? You are being clear and I think wherever the art is decided is the best place. We would probably design the wall, the substrate to receive it. I mean we would not, it's not to say that you can't put art on single skin, but we would not do that. We would give it a dedicated surface whatever the art is. Tile will want something different than sculpture, will want something different than, we don't know what the art is, so that the substrate would be designed to appropriately receive it. So to say it differently, Tim, maybe we have to ask Amherst to make certain decisions at certain times as we're doing the construction documents, right? So yeah, Kathy, we don't need an answer today, but we would say we'll need to know by January of next year or something. I'm just making up a date, but yeah. That's what I'm looking for, Donna, because I'm also seeing there's, if you didn't put it way up high on the cafeteria, Tim, you could point your, I can't point an arrow, I don't think, but on the other side of the cafeteria there's a brick wall that must, I don't know what that is, way over. That's the that's, is that the kitchen? This is the kitchen. You know, so if you wanted to not draw people into the wrong entrance, but you wanted to have when the kids and other people are out playing something lively to look at. Yeah, and that's by the door over there, right? Yeah, so I'm just seeing that there's the same way you picked out the one that's next to the move. I'm looking at flat surfaces that don't have windows on it. Basically, it's a simplistic way of thinking. So, so I think both Jonathan and Rupert had their hands up, so just, you can just shout out the way I did, because it's just the three of us. Go ahead, Rupert. Thank you for first. Okay, I can't explain why it is, but on the north side of the music room that one section of dark brick just sort of feels out of place to me, and I don't know whether it's because it's just a little smaller or or what. Do you understand what I'm saying? I do understand what you're saying. I think there's an uncomfortable part of this composition, which in the previous version was sort of tied together by the art, but I understand the concept of what you're saying. I think that's one of the reasons I like the art on where that gray panel is right now, because it's Yeah, I mean, one of the reasons I have this view up is it shows that the art is sort of interacts with the whole site. You can see it from further away, anyone using the field or playground, and it's more of a building wide statement. Whereas art in the other locations, where we had shown it perhaps at the kitchen mall, it's a very different experience. It could be tacked all the kids could come up and play with it. And so, you know, part of the decision of where it should be might be what the artist itself and who the artist is, someone who works in large scale pieces, if they are commissioned, this might make more sense. So both are options, you know, looking at the building as an object, this has a certain appeal to us as designers, but we're also creating a space for kids to inhabit. So it's just putting it out there for what you think is the most appropriate. And then there is this section of the media center wall where we need stacks. And we've gone with this fenestration design to this point. So it just sort of, there's a natural home for something there. So just looking at what we could put there. So here's my suggestion for, and I'm sure we have various people on our public, they can, they'll be weighing in. But for Friday, the, when do we need to make this decision? What Donna was saying, because we're technically by our percent for art bylaw, supposed to set up a group that has users of the building and community. There's a process that we're supposed to go through. And that would be to pick the design, you know, pick the artist. So it's not necessarily, we don't have to do that. But if we need to make a decision on where it goes by Donna, whether it's December, whatever the date is, then we're making a decision. It's external, it's up high, it's external, it's down low. And the artist would then be asked to do something. We haven't even pre-decided murals on the outside of the building, for example, as opposed to what I've seen in a couple of schools. When you come in on that internal wall, the commissioned art is there. So it's actually weatherproof inside. So I just think trying to make a list of potential places. And then telling us the dead date for making it, because particularly on the outside of the building, material behind it would be different. I think the interior murals, Kathy, you have more flexibility. I mean, we can just put the backers on the walls and make sure. But I think we would also want to identify those areas only so that we can continue to design the interior walls and what all that might look like. But I think that's an easier decision. But we can give you a quote-unquote drop dead date of at least where you would like the murals on the exterior. And then we can just work around that. But we can give you a date. Jonathan and Rupert, does that make sense to you? Yes, I think it does. We as the building committee haven't charged to build the building. And to me, it's okay for us to say, okay, we think art can go here and kind of pass that off to another body in town and say it's your charge to fill this space. Otherwise, we're going to fill it with siding or something like that. The other thing I think we shouldn't forget is that the exterior art, if there is exterior art, it could also be freestanding art. It could be a sculptural piece not attached to the building. And so I think we can feel comfortable as a committee proposing locations where wall-mounted art can be. But if the other group decides they want to do freestanding pieces, that my guess is that decision would not be as time-sensitive as stuff attached to the building. Yeah, I agree completely with that. I know it's just way too expensive, but I love the dinosaurs you can climb on in the park outside of the Natural History Museum in New York. They're little kid dinosaurs, but they are extremely, people are on them all the time and it teaches you about, and we have dinosaurs in Emerson. It's the only reason we have, we were the land of a lot of dinosaur bones. So Jonathan and Rupert, when this gets reported up on Friday, actually, for the full committee, do you have any reaction to the gray metal skin versus white, off-white, whatever that color is on this, these two designs? Yeah. I mean, I'm generally liking the direction it's going. I'm liking the way they're breaking up the large planes. I like the way these roof forms that fold kind of help define the more public sections of the building versus the classroom section of the building. In some ways, what these materials are, I'm okay deferring a little bit until we get to see and touch the materials again, because it is a little hard in the abstract to say, well, maybe that should be brick or maybe that you know, because you want to kind of touch and feel it and understand what that is. And as good as these renderings are, there's a certain limitation. You also need to have products in hand and understand how the light will shine differently on them and things like that. And so, you know, while I look at that, the library form and say, well, I don't know that I want that to be white-white, what I do like is the way there's a contrast between the whiter material and the grayer material. And what those two materials are, I can be fairly agnostic about at this stage. Great. Rupert, if you have any thoughts, just weigh in. I guess in the picture that we're looking at right now, the sort of textured feel of the gray is kind of attractive. It just adds a little something. In terms of the colors, I'm not really sure. Is that all? Yeah, Kathy, go ahead. Sorry. I was just going to say, Tim, if I don't know if you have some other pictures, because I think we can't go much further. There are three of us here. Yeah, there are just a couple more options, different configurations of the plane that defines the music room. The last one had it around the entire volume, sort of defining the volume. Just sort of accents the glass, the windows facing the north, and creates a smaller overhang that supported by the volume. There'd be less shadow on the building, but it's just a different version of a similar design idea. It's still broken up between two major colors. There's still a folded plane that accents, but it doesn't encompass the whole volume. And the canopy or roof edge, whatever you want to call it, it's not really canopy fish you're not walking up to. It's not protecting you, but it doesn't come close to the main canopy of the building. So whether you like them interweaving or being separate is just something that we want to put out there for conversation. So it's just a different approach. And here it is in the context of the building once again. But in all of these, we're rendering it as the single skin metal panel and masonry, but that's not to say that the masonry or a similar color or lighter than the fields could not replace the metal panel in this. It's a little bit further from the window below. So the detailing of the relieving angle would actually even be a little bit simpler here, but they're all in terms of complexity and cost in the same family. I have a quick reaction. I'm fascinated and intrigued by the reversing of which plane has the color between the front canopy and that music room overhang. I think that's really cool. And it also strikes me that if you have the bright color on the, I don't know what you call it, the soft edge, the vertical edge, the vertical surface has a cue that it's an entrance that might be interesting to explore throughout the building. Go ahead, Kathy, sorry. Go on. So, yeah, as we get more into details, that's going to be a big part of the design, how you can turn corners with colors. And it can be very effective. It can also be tricky. So that's sort of a touch and feel conversation. So when we get into holding materials, we can talk about how these materials turn corners, what you have to do to turn the corner with metal panels or break metal, if we use it, what you have to do to turn the corner with a masonry product. Obviously, the soft, it's not going to be masonry. So where we make all those changes and where we have the freedom and where we want to change colors, it's going to be a big part of the discussion when we get into details. But if that excites the group, if that's something that we think is a design language that we want to use, we just want to make sure that we know that. So we can either go that direction or not. Tim, can you go back to the previous option just so we can kind of look at compare and contrast again? So yeah, while I'm intrigued by option B, there's something about option A with the overhang kind of at the roof line that I think works better when you're out stepped back a little bit. There was something that was looked a little muddy when you have just the overhang at the window when you're back further from the building. But they're both interesting to me. And I don't like the next one, Tim, but I'm trying to figure out why I don't like it. And I think I don't like the amount at which this single thing just juts out. And it clearly doesn't have to come out that far, the way you've drawn it. But I'm also, this is north side of the building, north and the west. West, yes. The signage is on the west side. And so I, the music room needs light. It doesn't need glare. And it feels to me like the higher up overhang would less interfere with light coming in in the way it's set up. So there's a couple of things about this that I don't like. And cost wise, it feels like we're spending money for an overhang that's not really doing anything, the jutting out one. It's got its own lack of support system. So it's just, I know you say these are kind of equivalent costs. But as we saw in VE when you eliminated some materials, suddenly there was a savings. So I wouldn't want to do something that was just a design element that didn't have a function that much. And I, we got Bruce made a comment last time that they on the south side, they did have all sorts of functions in terms of rainwater not dripping in. So I'm so, so I'm leaning toward a more just because of the way this is certainly interrupts the plane. But and then again, I just want to ask one other question with the single sheet, single skin metal, say it right, Kathy, where the gray comes either on this one or the other one, you've got gray coming all the way down and you said it shouldn't come down to the ground. So I did say that I did say close to entrances where you could potentially come up with a cart or a plow. I mean, it is adorable material behind a planting bed or even if kids work, it would be fine. Also, it would not actually touch the ground, just like a lot of our masonry. There's either a base of concrete or a granite, depending on how it's detailed, just so it's not ground contact. But yes, it is durable enough to be at that level. But we can go ahead. Yeah, I just just to go back to Kathy's comment that the overhang over the art room, a music room doesn't really provide any functional benefit. This is the west side, right? So it doesn't help at all. I'm looking at the shadows, right? You're seeing the sun coming through. It would have a very small benefit. So if you really want to get into how the sun is working with the classroom, so this is facing west most of the time. The sun will be coming when it's coming from the west at all, it will be coming from the southwest. So it will be going in that window, but it won't be angled into the classroom proper. It will be against the wall. So the teaching wall is currently drawn is behind this sign. So light will be coming in, hitting this wall and bouncing into the room. So bounce light is actually great. Direct light is not great for glare learning and visual comfort. So just to go back to Kathy's comment, just to confirm that. And then the other thing too is because it is the west, it's going to be late afternoon or I guess in the middle of the winter, it'll be a little bit earlier, but so there really is no beneficial purpose of this overhang, right? It's negligible and it is a design idea, putting it out there to see and then obviously it doesn't need to be as big as it is, but if the look of it captured the imagination, we can certainly reduce it and work with the idea, but it doesn't sound like that's happening anyway. But Kathy's maybe the odd voice out, Jonathan. Well, I generally favor option A just from a form perspective. I just kind of like the overhang at a higher level, but I put my hand up really for another reason, which was just to ask Kathy if you know, is the school in the town going to call the building, the Fort River Elementary School? And if not, should we be using a different name here? So I don't, the answer is I don't know. We definitely talked about a naming exercise and the school committee liked that idea. There have been a few comments that it gets you into all sorts of stuff in town when you try to pick a name. Yeah. So you're going with the name of the school has to go somewhere. So right now we've got the name being, the name has to go somewhere, but yeah. Okay. I just wasn't sure if the other things were happening in the background that I wasn't aware of. No, and I don't know. I think we should bring it up. The school committee has now gotten over some of the humps it's been facing. And we can ask them whether there is a decision to do that, whether they want to explore it and how would we go about doing it because, you know, we, I don't want to darken our purview, we have enough to do. No, no, I just, you know, hopefully we don't have to make the decision. It should be a townwide decision, whether they just want to keep it for simplicity. Yeah. Tim, is there any way that we could see the two options side by side? Maybe what you can do is go to the tool bar on the left and then it's just, yeah, so maybe just going, yeah, and then see if you can make that really, really big or something and just bring it all the way over. Oh, you lost it. Just just so it's so sometimes hard to see. Yeah. Just keep going, just stretch it all the way and make that really big. Can you stretch it over more? Yes, yes, to really, yeah, keep going. It's just sometimes easier when, when you're trying to see the two or maybe, yeah, if you just scroll up one or something, there you go. Well, yeah, something like that just so it gives you a little better visual. And there is a third option. Okay. But that's even bigger overhang. Your C has got more brick. Is that what I'm seeing? The gray's not coming down? Oh no. That one was mislabeled. Apologies for that. C has more brick. It's a constant there's a little return here on the brick. All of the glass is facing north, but the folded plane canopy element is a little simpler. So here's a closer view. I like this one. I like this one too, Jonathan. Maybe it's I'm into boring brick, but I like less of that single metal gray, that big sheet coming down. Although I like this one too. So this has the plane that the sign is on, the masonry plane sort of portrays a little bit north of the corner. So there'll be literally no glare in the music room. It is a little bit simpler. I'm at a loss for words other than simpler, but that was the idea. To get the music room not to compete with some of the other, you know, big moves that we're making. I think that's why I like it is that it's not competing. Tim, did you just block glass then? Did you block the west side glass altogether? It was moved to the north side. Same amount of glass just sort of moved around the corner. So that also might be beneficial so that kids aren't, well, either way, they're going to be looking at the playground, but, you know, they're not looking at everyone arriving or the traffic on the main. There's more glass that comes to the floor in this room alone. It gets you a side by side. So this is option C. And then here was option A. I think we should keep A and C for people to look at is what I would do. If people, you know, because I'd like, and, you know, I want to get some reaction from a couple of people in our public side, but I'm not sure I would want to, I want to hear whether having more glass on the north and giving up the west side is a plus or whether getting light from two directions is helpful. And then you give the music room more wall on the west side when you move that brick out, you know, just on, I need to, you know, what happens to the inside of the music room is my other question, you know, how that interacts. So going first for function and second for design style, I just, I would just like to know how the room sets up, you know, does it help you in the music room to have one big glass wall rather than two sided glass with the high glass here. So you're still getting that whole stretch of glass bringing light in on the north side. It's just not coming down to the ground. Yeah, Kathy, another thought would be just, yes, a full wall is can be helpful for instructional purposes, right, like you were saying. So I think that would be a huge benefit. My only other comment, Tim, is maybe there's a strike a balance here because having glass at the north or the whatever that is east and up high also brings more light into more of the classroom. So maybe there's a little bit of a balance. It's a large room. It's about 1200 square feet. So getting some higher light similar to what it's doing on option A, using the clear story, so to speak, would help bringing light further into the back of the classroom. And I'm sure my day lighting experts would have something to say about that. But he's got the same, he's got the same plane here, Donna. It's just the whole wall is glass. And he doesn't, he doesn't have the way. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that was just my comments between A and C. Yeah. So but but to repeat the comments that I'm hearing back to you just I think larger moves at the scale of the entire music room and simpler. So the smaller canopy jutting out in option B wasn't well received. But the the roof planes that sort of encompassed the whole music room, larger pieces of glass that simplify the layout in the middle and control the glare are the direction. And then A and C both had some, you know, positive elements and B was solid mediocre. So those are very helpful comments that we can continue to work with as we develop the design and report to the larger community on Friday. If I can jump in. Sure. I agree with Kathy. I think A and C should go forward. There's, I do think the simpler lines and C are really nice. I have some hesitancy about glass going all the way down to the floor or very close to floor just in terms of cleaning and and custodial services. So, you know, if the area of glass, you know, stopped a foot or two above the floor, I think that's beneficial on the custodial side. It just would mean you had a wider surface instead of a taller surface. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead, Kathy. Sorry. Tim, I'm just wondering what else you're going to show us because I also have a couple of people in the public may have comments on this and I can bring them in, but just give me a sense of where we're going. I have six more slides that revisit the north or excuse me, the west elevation where we were talking about potentially bringing the color. So maybe 10 more minutes of discussion. Great. Yep, fine. So this is what we saw last week and then we introduced the idea of bringing the color of the canopy to the roof edge and bringing it down to the ground at the north and in some way just to sort of amplify the effect of that, which we think we like. There are some things about this that, you know, remain to be resolved, the detailing of how we will bring those planes to the ground, what the material will be, what the fenestration for the conference room that is in the corner is and the visibility. I don't think we have it all completely resolved, but we just want to get some more reaction as we move through some options. Here, unfortunately, we chose to model it with option B, which was the least favorite of the music room, but we're bringing the roof edge down and we do just the typical window that we have used on the rest of the administration suite with the colorful panel. And I will admit that it does not fill this volume quite the same way, but we wanted to get your reaction. And then another thing that we wanted to get your reaction to was the masonry and material colors of the administration. As it is now, the administration main office suite was sort of one volume defined with the darker brick color as was the music room. And then you could differentiate that from the gin volume because it was a lighter masonry. So wherever you had a large programmatic element, you'd have a color change. It was a very simple, charismatic. The more times we slice it up, though, the more opportunities there are and maybe suggestions of color change. So we just want to make sure that we're receiving the diagram clean. Here, we're looking at the music room as the darker color and all of the administration as a lighter color. But then as you turn the corner, this still shows the masonry as a dark color so that you have that contrast with the gym, but maybe the roof edge provides enough separation. And then there's also the question of we have to figure out how to turn the roof edge down. I think we've started to look at it. And we've, you know, but it's still unresolved. It's a little chunky, but we're going to get your thoughts on how you want the program elements to read, whether they're solid elements where you have any reaction to changing the color or just say you don't have any yet, and we'll keep studying it and bring back more options for you to consider. Want to dive in with comments? Yeah, just dive in. Okay, I actually like the masonry kind of in that that inset more than two tones. But I think for me, the biggest on the piece of unresolved elements here is really how you're returning that that plane that, you know, in this view, the return that goes back towards the gym just feels very clunky, chunky. In my eye, I would almost want the whole orange plane to extend back to the gym, and the other windows are kind of flinched through that, or at least I'd be curious as to what that would look like. Maybe that would just be way too much, but there's something about that that that feels still unresolved visually. Agreed, we have looked at bringing that whole plane down, and we were reluctant to present to you because it felt a bit too much, but you are certainly going to see it now. So thank you for that comment. So Tim, boy, I can move my arrow across your screen, but I can't show you. I agree with Jonathan, I like this dark, I like the masonry here, not that I think I don't like the single. I'm having a reaction, I'm liking the brick better, whether it's this color brick or a lighter color brick, and I like the white brick. So I have on the orange that comes down the big slant above the entrance waist slant, and that big orange over to the gym, and the big return. If it were just a thin line, like the roof going over, instead of that great big orange stripe, and then do we need the the vertical one, which right now is not vertical, it's slanted. So I just it you said use the word clunky, it looks to me like we just slapped it on the building, and what it would look like with just the thinner, the thinner one connected over and then brick. So that's comment number one. And then on the windows, I'm assuming at least some of the windows open, and I don't know whether it's the up and down, the double sided windows. But I wouldn't want to my home, where I'm sitting faces west. And in the morning, I often have to turn the lights on in the afternoon, I'm fine. So I just wouldn't want to cut down. So I'm just wondering is the overhang too much over those two windows in the administration, where the other one, the one that's got under in the brick has got plenty of light coming in. I don't have an overhang, I just like, yeah, I don't have it over here. So it's those are just my comments on it. It seems like you've added something that for me it's not really appealing. And then my question about the windows, but I like the brick better as Jonathan did. Yeah. Can I ask a clarifying question here? Sure. The three windows that are facing west, are they all in the same plane or is the dark brick set further to the east? The dark brick, the window set in the dark brick is a few feet further to the east, there is a return there. Thank you, that helps me understand what I'm looking at. Just to there. Oh, yeah, it steps back just a tiny bit. Yeah. And this window in the conference room here is going to be subject of much design as we resolve that one. Yeah. Yeah, I think I, you know, I agree with Kathy that it, I think it wants, so in the image 23, page 23 there, that looks very nice straight on. But when you turn the corner, I think Kathy's right. I think it either wants to be an orange overhang that's thin and crisp that returns back to the gym. Or even though, we might all think it's too much. Or if we're going to bring that plane down, I think it has to extend to the gyms somehow. Yeah, sorry, I'm trying to, you know, illustrate a little of, we go through a lot of options and put them all. I'm sure you do. So here is bringing it halfway to the gym and, you know, you're getting to the point where that becomes the dominant move of the building. And it's a question of if that's appropriate or not. And if everyone likes it, then yes. And I don't want you to show us something that you don't like, to be honest. And so, you know, if, because this feels unresolved to me, if you feel that bringing it all the way with punched openings for the window is just too much and just deludes things, don't show it to us and just say, yeah, we don't think it works. You know, because we want you to, I don't want to inhibit your ability to edit this design and keep the focus where you want it to be. Yes. We are going to bring this back to the drawing board and bring a refined version the next time we meet. As you said, we definitely think there's something there that sort of reinforces the main gesture of the main entrance in West facade. It's just a matter of tying it into the rest of the language of the building and not diluting and not, you know, changing gears, changing language. Can I ask a question about the South side of that office suite again? Sure. I'm wondering, with that, the angled wall there and it looks like an overhang. Is that functionally, shielding the windows from solar gain? Does it have a valuable energy purpose on that South side of the office suite? On the South side? It depends on how high and as we continue design. But in terms of shading of the windows, it will be a small amount. That's why all of your classroom windows that are facing North, we have the integrated sunshades and we'll probably, those are a much more effective means than a roof edge. So any punched window that we have facing South, we'll probably look at doing that. Thank you. Okay, Tim, I think we're good. We are good. Thank you. So is that, and so we're, any further comments, but also if people are okay, I'm going to see whether our attendees have any comments and want to be brought into the room. So one hand is up. Is that okay with everyone that I bring people in? Okay. So Bruce, I have allowed you to talk if you unmute. I think I already, I think you automatically unmuted me. Is that correct? You can hear me now. I seem to have had full control. Yes. Wow. So the moment you unmuted me, the phone started ringing here. So we'll see how that works. Again, I really applaud the liberation here, both on the part of the architects bringing forward these options, which are just complicated enough to extend the conversation, but not so much to bamboozle everybody, which is a real, that's a nice thing to be able to get that balance, I think. So I applaud that Dismisco from that point of view. I can applaud you from a number of other points of view as well, but that one is the moment. And I think that you was, the three of you as a committee have hit a lot of what I would have said. So I'm really just going to add some weight to some. I think the, as far as the music room series is concerned, I think the A and C, I certainly agree that those are the ones to bring forward. I think the, what I like about the A, and I think should be pursued, is the great amount of higher level glass, as Donna was saying. I think there's a real benefit to that. I can see Rupert brings forward the idea of the value of glass. I usually look at glass at floor level or close to floor level and think it's not working hard enough. I know in certain modernist ways, the seamless integration of exterior and interior space that wants the windows to go down, and if we were Mies van der Rohe or his progeny, we would probably be celebrating that opportunity, but I don't think so here. So I'm with Rupert. I think that the glass at below one foot is probably not working hard enough for us. And so I would put that glass higher up. So I like, I also think that the, as I think I said last week, that the overhang, the over the projection of the roof or any projection, if we're going to have it, we should recognize that it does benefit the wall. So having it at the roof plane edge rather than halfway down as I think maybe that maybe that was option B. So I think working, projecting at the roof level to protect the greater portion of the wall is we get a benefit from that that we should recognize. So all of that is probably just saying that I agree with pretty much everything that was said. I think the commentary was quite constructive, quite positive and quite useful. As far as the western, the south side treatment, I really have a strong visceral reaction to that. I really don't think that that idea has got enough merit to be worth pursuing. I'm thinking of the amount of time and energy and skill that this design team has got. And I think that there's not really enough of a there, there, the warrant pursuing this projection and sloping of the wall. I think that the roof, for promises, any solar protection is concerned that just protecting the roof plane and not turning it down as a wall is going to get you most of what you want from a solar shading standpoint. I think the projection of the sloping the wall and turning the roof down is A, too clunky and B, too much of a distraction to the move that has already been made to define the entry. And I think it's working against a clear and positive and crisp definition of the entry plane. So I don't like that, that design idea. And I personally don't think it's worth any further exploration given that you could be using your time better elsewhere. As far as Rupert, I think it was a question or concern or someone's concern about whether the entry canopy projecting over the two of the three windows in the men area would shade them. Or that was Kathy's concern, right? Because I've been in your house, haven't I? So I know what you're talking about. It might be possible to ameliorate that a little by putting a punched openings in that orange plane, which from an architectural point of view, from design point of view, you wouldn't see it so much from, you wouldn't see it at all, probably, as you came up to it. But you could let light through that plane into those windows to a much greater degree. And that was an idea that occurred to me when Kathy said that. That's it from me. I enjoy listening to your conversations. And I think you're all doing very well. Thank you on behalf of the community. So, Tim, with that feedback, the whatever we call that orange stripe that comes down to the ground, could you do one for Friday that just has the thin one over? So we could just see what that looks like without the turning the corner. I don't even have to describe it. So we've heard the feedback of what works and what doesn't work about that idea. So we can try to distill out what we want to keep and get rid of the clenches. Yeah, I would agree. The more I think about it, the more I think it works. It's an idea that works really well in elevation, but doesn't doesn't quite work or doesn't work in 3D. So I'm just if I don't see any other hands up. So I think we're good. And my suggestion would be we'll put this entire slide deck in the subcommittee. But we might have done it already of all these pictures. But for Friday, get down to the options that we like liked better. And I'm at least I heard on what I'll call option A music room, which was brick and was slightly more preferred than C, but but keeping C in the mix because there was some interest in it is the way I would go. So fewer, fewer choices will be better to get to to to make the discussion get to where you need to say, yeah, we most of us or many of us or whatever like these. So I think that's it. Unless I hear any other comments. The just before I started the record button, I was asking Dinesco and Rupert, I think you joined us just a little bit later, you know, when I hit record to on Friday, give us a sense of the July and August, July, August, September, but just early July and August that key, key times or people that you need to meet with, you know, some of it might be staff meetings. And that we're talking about Dinesco coming to Amherst and it's likely going to be what is the second week in July since the first week of July is July 4th week, trying to pick a date that works for a lot of people to bring these material, the materials we've just been looking at the the single skin metal. The brick of choice and then you've got some of this off white work, you know, and I would just bring enough of it so we we would get a real visceral sense of what this looks like. And I guess the only other thing on coming here, I went out to look at cars of which you can't buy them without pre buying them anymore, you can't get in them on the ones I was looking for, but they said don't look at the colors in the book because until you see the car, you won't really see the color. So the orange, a few of the highlight colors, Tim, if you can just bring color board so we can see as near to what does that orange look like, what is that, what does that aqua look like, that would be my, you know, to me they look fine. So just getting more of a sense and we'll make sure that that that we get a big enough room that if we get a fair number of public including some teachers and others who want to come to look and see and touch, we will, we'll have space for it. So yeah, Kathy, just just just to finish the conversation that are on site, which isn't the subcommittee, but we would also do some of the site, have some of the conversations. Okay, so it's it's a it's a two two part meeting. You know, one would be focused on the building and building materials. The second would be focused on the site. And particularly we'll say this again at the Friday, but on the site side, I think it will be really helpful to at least a chunk of that be walking around the current Fort River site. So one, you know, so I just have to talk with Tamiya and others on what kind of meeting space do we have, if there's something at Fort River since the school won't be in session where. Yeah, there's definitely some spaces I'm sure. You know, in the cafeteria or someplace that we can meet there and then go outside and with a break between the two. Yeah, there's also there's been a request and I'll just say that some people here that, you know, we've got Kendrick Park, Roth Park, Jessica's, yeah. And, you know, so that some of it might be design team just seeing some of the things that the air mist community already knows. So that we know you know what what it is we're seeing a lot of input went into the parks and air mist from the broad community as well as families with kids, you know, just on an even colors. So there was a fair amount. So just we'll pick a day that it'll be a full day, but broken up into for different purposes. Perfect. So I'm not seeing any other pieces. Thank you, Rupert for joining us. You were essentially in so many ways and are. And I have to tell you whether I don't know. Yeah, anyway, it's great to have you with us. And I am going to say that the subcommittee is adjourned at 1011. And we will post this set. I saw you had 56 slides to you can figure out whether you want to put the whole set in the meeting or not. But anything you want to send me, we will post. Yeah, I will send it to you right now. And there are a few more slides that I will send it to you right now. Okay. Thank you all. See you on Friday. Bye. We are adjourned.