 tonight we're ready for a lively juicy debate between our ron steward neckly uh... we're going to be debating is christianity true and to start us off we have steward for his up to ten minute intro so steward the floor is all yours and thanks for being here thanks ron thanks ryan so the question is christianity rational well there's about five different definitions of rationality in the westers dictionary all thinking probably the other one is irrational and so rationality is difficult i think a lot of it has to do with what is the hard evidence where the facts it has a lot to do also with can you show it to me what your hypothesis many different definitions we're trying to get down to it in terms of the rationality of christianity tonight in terms of this is there evidence behind it what's a healthy hypothesis in looking at it is their logical consistency are there things like experiential rationality as well as well as evidential uh... intellectual side of it so many different angles i always start with thinking through different world views and i always change up which world view i'm gonna pick on so i've got some some new ones tonight when i think through some materialism you know materialism breaks down for me because if it's true then reason itself is really impossible uh... for because the mental processes i would say are nothing but chemical reactions in the brain so there's no reason to believe really that anything is true uh... chemicals don't reason they react for me materialism clearly breaks down it's it's totally a logical totally non-rational to me pluralism is another one i've been talking about recently with people pluralism breaks down because it's basically saying we all have different parts of an elephant and pluralism is standing outside of the elephant saying that i have the enlightened perspective on spirituality and you are all just holding their parts of an elephant none of you are making real exclusive truth claims and i just want to be a liberal snowflake just pummeling you with an avalanche of tears and and all this supposed tolerance and sensitivity and so i'm gonna say that everything's the same and we know there's internal contradictions with that humanism i think humanism is simply christianity light i think that humanism has just stolen all of the christian values uh... the only thing it hasn't stolen is the story the christian story the narrative which holds all these values together so at the end of the day if you look at it from an evolutionary perspective or scientific perspective it really makes no sense if you're a humanist that is a non-christian relativism i think breaks down as well as another perspective i hear all the time it's true for you it's true for you it's true for me it's true for me i would just ask is that true i would also say my brother's professor at a local university and he could play many cool tricks on students coming in who say oh why did you give me an f on that paper and he could simply say well it's all relative subjective well what's wrong with me giving you an f it's just my subjective feelings there's no objective right and wrong here so there's no real standard i think if we just look at atheism more broadly it's it's really the belief that there was once absolutely nothing and nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and everywhere then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearrange itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits that turned into dinosaurs that's kind of my my reasoning on the rationality of of atheism and and scientism is what oftentimes we get into here on these debates and thinking further through on scientism you know there's really no discovery often times you will say which is science there's science and no god well there's no discovery of science that has the least tendency to show that there is no god peter van in wagon at harvard said that so so science can't prove obviously things like logic and math can't prove it it can't prove metaphysical truths can't prove ethical truths morality is aesthetic judgments science can improve itself because permeated with unprovable assumptions theory of relativity hinges on speed of light and being constant between a and b it's accepted but in a way can it be proven and for me an illustration that i use is is atheism and theism let's say if they were both dabbling in magic and pulling a rabbit out of the hat atheism is worse than magic because you just have the bunny coming out of the hat you have no magician those are some of my world view perspectives that i've been thinking about but getting more specifically into why i am a christian and why i believe it's rational well i think you need to have origin meaning morality and destiny origin where are you coming from big questions that are metaphysical like where did we get all people are created equal where did we get value for human beings why are human beings more valuable than the horse the pony i'm getting for my girls i mean i if that horse suffers at the same level as my girls if that horse has the same level of reasoning say if one of my girls for example was handicapped how why does that horse have the equal value as as my daughter it makes no sense from a place of origin and second meaning there's no objective meaning in atheism there's nothing bright and happy about the ultimate heat death of the universe and our things really not having any long-lasting meaning and purpose all the things that we do all the relationships we stack up here in this planet morality we know there's breakdown in morality objective morality to break down into you know i don't think are in a relativist but i see a very hard state to make in terms of the oddness and the shouldness and the objective morals without a god and then finally destiny you know you gotta make sense of destiny where are you going are you just going to the to gihanna or you just go into the worm pit or is there something more are you are you falling through this life out of this life into the loving arms of the creator and i think we all want that i think c.s. louis was right when he talked about how we long for food we have an appetite and there is food we want for sex and there is sex out there we long for eternity and most likely there is eternity out there so that jives with me that works for me i think for me also the emotional side of christianity and the cultural side tremendously rational i was just in l.a. i just got back from l.a. on a on a popular podcast i i read this quote because i think it's very powerful from one of my favorite writers he's an atheist oddly enough and he said to kenyon college i won't i won't say who it is but well yeah well david foster wallace and the compelling reason for maybe choosing some sort of god or spirit he says because we all worship something this is an atheist saying it is one of the most brilliant atheists i think in the last fifty years unfortunately hung himself but he said is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive if you worship money and things if they're where you tap real meaning in life then you will never have enough never feel you have enough worship your body and beauty and sexual or and you will always feel ugly and when the time and age starts showing you will die a million deaths before they finally grieve you worship power you will end up feeling weak and afraid and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear worship your intellect being seen as smart you will end up feeling stupid a fraud always in the verge of being found out but the insidious thing about these forms of worship is they're unconscious they are default settings everybody worships the only choice we get is what to worship and the compelling reason for maybe choosing maybe choosing some sort of god spirituality thing to worship is that pretty much anything else you worship is going to eat you alive and it's a subconscious matter i see it all the time as a psychotherapist in my office or i'm not too long ago had a brilliant artist i was counseling and she was worshiping her art she ended up in the psych facility unable to get out because her depression was so high and i said you probably want to change that worship into something eternal something something outside of you i've also seen this in victor frankels writings obviously the great psychiatrist who lived through the prisoner of war camps there in nazi germany he said those who didn't worship something outside of the camp something eternal shriveled up and died turned each other in became nasty and brutish the only ones who had a level of buoyancy and happiness and joy even within the death camps were those who had some type of god that that's the emotional side of it and then the real intellectual pieces the gospel reliability me nine observers witnesses but their memories to writing you know you have twenty seven different documents in the new testament that were written on twenty seven different scrolls by nine of these different writers over twenty to fifty years about and now they've been collected into one book and that's the new testament five thousand eight hundred handwritten greek manuscripts nine thousand manuscripts in other languages homer we only get six hundred forty three who runs scrolls huge discovery in the nineteen hundred gigantic five hundred books were you know you have obviously i say a most of isaac on a fragment of the new fragments of every single book in the old testament gigantic in terms of reliability of the bible as a whole you get early testimony uh... my biggest piece of early testimony would be paul first fifteen three through eight uh... you'll stop and flippians too but i would go first printings fifteen three through eight is number one what is passed down what has been passed down to him and i would say the weeks weeks after jesus resurrection we have the immediate preaching of what occurred with the resurrection which is the gospel that's weeks uh... that's the scholarship that i go by uh... so i would just testimony multiple independent sources so you have coherence and dissimilarity with internet catered for historians you know it's not just wild contradictions no there's dissimilarities and there needs to be one of the order some type of collusion eyewitnesses are trustworthy i would say what why would they lie doesn't make any sense women for example trustworthy even the josephus would say that's ridiculous they're untrustworthy so that's any attestation problem-writing evidence from archaeology you know other writers that is the pool so long that's the best uh... i will get into that later but the enemy attestation is also you know roman's jews let's just say the cycle stole the body and that was a rumor that spread for a long time embarrassing details why would they add this about peter and the women doesn't make any sense why they would add that so maybe these disciples these gospel writers were just brilliant fishermen and magically they were able to pull off this amazing stuff maybe maybe i'm not totally against that idea i i i hold myself to be agnostic and at times and so but that that's hard for me to get behind that's time there that's time uh... that's time right there that's time okay all right well thank you guys do it if that's all uh... there uh... will uh... thank you for your opening statement there and i just wanna remind everybody if you didn't see the promo on the intro while you are listening to me do my guitar store my guitar solo work we're gonna be having a live in-person debate says coming up on september sixteen is gonna be live in houston texas so we got uh... link in the description for those tickets uh... and and what's that all we're seeing double look iran's there twice now so uh... with iran's face on the screen two times we're gonna head over to our and for his introductory statement and the four is all yours on a thanks to it for bringing me into two debates and yet not bringing me into one because as you look at the title of this video it is uh... is christianity true that's the one i thought we were gonna have but steward decided that we were gonna have uh... debate on is christianity rational but uh... fortunately he didn't bring an argument for that either so uh... what what what he did do let me know how much he does not know about atheism first of all uh... what is materialism materialism is we both we both accept that there is this material universe i think we both accept that there's a material universe i don't also assume a magical alternative reality like steward does so materialism is not assuming another reality that is not indicated uh... he mentioned that he said that chemicals don't reason uh... i would say that only chemicals reason that the only thing that we can show in the universe that reasons are chemicals and the other thing about how he said the atheism the world view of atheism is that nothing exploded and all of that except that we don't believe there was ever nothing not even laurence krauss believes that i've had the opportunity to talk to a number of cosmologists cosmogonists even in uh... models of cosmogony that have a singularity the singularity is eternal never created it was never a time when it was just nothing and the big bang is not an explosion uh... also science doesn't prove math because math and science are called math and science because they're two different things math has proofs science doesn't science doesn't have to prove anything it's not about that it's about showing what is or is not supported by the evidence uh... there we have objective morality i could argue we want to have a whole separate debate on that about uh... objective reality where christianity can't have objective morality because all you do is all you have is the subjective opinion of whoever's pretending to speak for god's subjective opinion but if you have an actual reason why we can you know uh... a series of uh... criteria do we all agree on how do we determine whether something is moral or immoral then we can use that to judge your bible and your god and determine that he is not moral uh... there's no such thing as destiny and if there was that would that would be yet another thing that would contradict free will uh... we do not all worship something i don't worship anything and there's no other atheist who speaks for me by the way and i don't think i speak for anybody else i can only speak for my own world view or opinion but so far as i know i i think i'm in the majority position on this that we don't all worship and as something uh... and then uh... my one of my problems with my many problems with christianity would be the absence of independent sources all you have or are anonymous claims as there's no corroborating evidence is really no evidence of any kind going to the argument that i thought i was coming here for the one that was pitched to me the one that is in fact advertised on the video uh... is christianity true in the simple answer is of course not uh... christianity is the notion that there is a god and that we have to believe that or will be mercilessly and savagely tortured forever and ever and ever relentlessly for all eternity if we don't believe by a god who supposedly loves us and yet denies us any rational indication of his existence if god existed then it would be his fault that we have all this evidence against him and he would have had to have created all that evidence if he was real he would have had to have created it to deceive us just so that he can judge us for what he did to us and then worse than that christianity has the specific requirement that we are to break the very first commandment by worshiping jesus as god placed ahead of the jewish father god jojoba such that anyone who dedicates their life to some other version of god say as i seek or a hindu or a uh... zoroastrian or a muslim will despite all their sacrifice and all that they've they've given up in devotion to god they will be sent to hell because they didn't declare jesus as their savior so all their piety and whatever they sacrificed is and and all their dedication is meaningless uh... we have to be forgiven for having fallen victim to god's own crime against us when he set and baited the trap in the garden of eden and punished a couple who couldn't be held culpable because god created them without knowing right from wrong and set the conditions such that our failure was inevitable and then he acted like he was surprised and the reason that jesus was supposed to die on the cross was to a tone for our discovery of forbidden knowledge so christianity is largely a retelling of the greek myth where prometheus is bound to a rock to a tone for men discovering the secret of fire that made them like on two gods but none of that ever happened anyway we know that adam and eve are genetically impossible that the story of guard of the garden of eden is just a fable with a moral one who's only possible truth is only a metaphor and a poor one at that and we know for certain that that the tower of babel the global flood of Noah's ark the exodus jona in the whale and so many other stories in the bible are not true and did not happen if those stories were true then god wants to blame us for everything he did but fortunately we know the stories are not true there's nothing to forgive us for and there is no reason to base forgiveness on what or whether someone believes we know it's not a moral issue morality in in christian theology is irrelevant because it doesn't matter how evil you are all all can be forgiven if you but believe but if you don't believe that it doesn't matter how good you are because the only sin that will not be forgiven is the sin of disbelief morality is irrelevant and gullibility is the sole criteria for redemption and then we're only to have any time left you still have three and a half minutes a little extra three and a half minutes well as the let's just go with with with with jesus being the center of everything so he's he's a faith healer who uh... a self-professed faith healer in scammars who actually didn't know anything he said that we could break the jewish tradition of washing our hands because he said that whatever goes into a man's mouth will not corrupt him it's what comes out of his mouth because jesus apparently didn't know anything about nutrition or drugs or poisons or contaminants instead he believed in the power of magic words he was a mystic who had no idea what caused the maladies that he pretended to cure he thought they were caused by demons this is not the guy you want to ask medical advice from uh... he and his disciples were faith healers so proclaimed self-proclaimed exorcist and no different than the fraud still running those scam seminars today he didn't know what the smallest seeds were even according to contemporary farmers who he could have just asked he didn't know when fig season was and the argument that i hear now that the story isn't real that it was a later interpolation just for the symbolism does not help the christian position jesus didn't know that the earth was round and you got one story where the devil takes him up on a high mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of the earth which is impossible on a globe but then jesus says he doesn't know exactly when his return might be he says he hopes that it'll be during that it won't be during winter which shows that either jesus didn't know that there's a southern hemisphere or he didn't he was only here for the jews anyway which he actually said by the way stop that you're making noise knock it off so sorry i have a puppy it's all good so he told his disciples not to go among the gentiles or enter any town of the samaritans but instead to preach only to the jews and jesus said truly i tell you that you will not finish going through the towns of israel before the son of man comes they've been through every town a long time ago and your boy ain't showed up jesus said that some not all but some of the disciples standing with him would not even taste death until they saw jesus seated at the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven but all those people that he said that too died like nineteen hundred years ago at minimum your boy is late you've been stood up he ain't coming whenever time left yeah you still have a whole minute about okay and then the values that that's to mention i mean christian values means no more than intolerance of other people's religious perspectives christian family values simply means hatred of gaze and anybody who's on who's on the spectrum of genderqueer and christian moral values means that excessive violence is perfectly fine whenever you're violating somebody else's rights the level of hypocrisy i mean christianity is all about denying responsibility you don't actually have to help somebody you can just literally wish upon a star that they'll get the help that they need somehow or and you don't have to be responsible for anything you've done because there's no you don't have to to atone for anything you've done wrong because you could just pretend that your magic imaginary friend is forgiven you and because of course he has he's you and then you don't you don't have to be responsible for the environment either because you can just make up the excuse that any minute now jesus will come back and roast anything everything anyway so it doesn't matter that i don't do anything so denial of responsibility there's no truth to christianity ever at all period nothing not a uh... there and here's here's a big one this kind of important we don't have souls ten seconds i've talked to a whole bunch of of neurophilosophers and and neuroscientists and that there is no support for mind body dualism at all period not not a neuroscience not even in philosophy we don't have souls we are our bodies chemicals are the only things that reason and i'll i'll just let it go there awesome well thank you so much iron for your opening statement there in your opening statement from you as well steward just want to remind everybody here in modern-day debate we are a neutral platform and we will host debates on science religion politics you name it hit us up uh... we're excited to have this open discussion so let's kick it off uh... over to you steward uh... uh... to kick us into our open discussion and thanks for being here fellas but i like why you're at a people good idea you're on you were right now okay so i like that list a lot i'm gonna be honest i'm honest and saying that i am going to start with reliability of the gospels i went to you were saying no sources when i gave nine i didn't get to my resurrection piece which there's this incredible historical background for the resurrection itself i didn't say i had no sources i said they were anonymous i know when i hear that i don't i don't understand that because who wrote them with the age with the age of where they are placed the names fit perfectly and we would actually have a better idea of the names we would hold them to be more credible than even the dates but we all hold the dates to be credible where they're at so how can you think they're anonymous well because we we don't have their names and because not eat the date the dates would be the closest thing to credible if there was an agreement on the dates but you know that the gospel writer is questionable matthew martin had the advantage of you know what so when i started doing my blasphemers bible study you know i started getting in with uh... some people with some scholarship and and uh... i've had the advantage of seeking to a number of biblical scholars on this topic and so i was surprised at how weak the bible actually is i i was surprised to find out that it was worse often i thought and what's interesting about that is i've had the exact opposite experience with atheists like tom holland the great historian over at oxford i loved him in spider-man uh... i'm told i look like him actually which is the biggest compliment i've i've gotten this year and so the impact of the bible worldwide is what all these atheistic thinkers i'm listening to them say that you know that they go on a debate the a c grailings of the world who who hate them saying that but fascinating as an atheist first eight years i guess tom holland might be agnostic but this gets that i'm glad you said that is this this goes right into what you finished there in your comments you know i've got a lot of the resurrection that we go to kids because i do know that this debate was on is christianity true and i'm glad you you fix my you caught my rationality there but why when you state something you just stated there's no truth to christianity ever at all why does a guy like barkman last month come out and say that yes compassion as an idea more than just a feeling came about in this world through christianity and jesus christ himself way way but barkman doesn't realize that the compassion predates christianity no his whole point was that compassion was a ridiculous idea in the world specifically the roman empire pre-jesus because it was all about those who are in power had dominance and it was considered grave weakness by the greeks in the romans to actually say your god is gonna become a slave as a servant and die down here and he's become human and so that's why barter man i can't speak to whatever those famous would say yes give you a i can't speak to whatever ermine was talking about in that moment i mean if we want to isolate it to the romans yeah i've read stuff from the romans that was hugely prejudiced uh stuff that i adamantly disagree with but you can't say that christianity came from chris or excuse me that the compassion came from christianity when it predates christianity and not just in the middle east but in the orient as well so we have a lot of compassionate writers from long before the time of jesus so that that that comment just doesn't make any sense at all he was referring more to the level of compassion because we you and i have talked about this i believe before when i i agree there's places in the in the gita that obviously the golden rules stand across all religions but and there's places in the gita that talk about you know being friend to your neighbor i don't know how the gita would define the secular philosophers in the fourth century through the first century but hold up but there was nothing anywhere remotely close to jesus christ saying to die for your enemies like i want to see that so that's why it's such a radical take on compassion that spread through christianity that's why barred ermine would agree on this with a christian and so and i'm not saying this to point that christianity is true the reason why i wouldn't say that christ that christ uh that that jesus was compassionate either no i mean there's a number of places where jesus just straight up lies saying that everyone who asked for anything will get it and that if you simply he was a mystic you know he believed that that that the power of positive thought would change reality so if you make believe hard enough you could make a mountain jump into the sea you just had to believe believe believe and he said that if you just make believe hard enough then his his disciples should be able to perform better miracles than he did and and then his uh of course which they didn't and then specifically says that the faith will be able to exercise demons and speak in new tongues and survive drinking poison or you're being bitten by venomous snakes when the reality is that snake handlers still die when they get bit faith healing doesn't work demons are not real and no two people who speak in new tongues can actually understand each other because it's not an actual language it's gibberish and that's all that is and then in Matthew 10 which jesus says you know don't don't don't suppose that i came to bring peace but a sword right he says that he's come to turn a man against his father and a daughter against his mother or her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law the man's enemies will be the members of his own household because he's a cult leader and so he's trying to divide people over their misplaced faith in him and then who you know whoever does not pick up the cross is not worthy of me whoever finds their whoever uh does not hate their their uh whoever loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me and then so here's a guy who one day believes in demons right and this is the same chapter where he promised that he would be that he would return during his disciples lifetime and then in Luke 14 he continues his rant saying that you can't be one of his disciples unless you hate your mother and your father and your brother and your sister and your wife and even your own life and of course this directly contradicts John 3 15 and 4 20 but then the bible contradicts itself constantly so here's this guy that has for no reason at all doesn't know dick about jack has just erected himself as some kind of you know faith healer cult leader he's the same kind of bullshit scam otters we still have running seminars today and he's made himself the center of this religion and yet how odd this this uh cult leader who came from absolutely nothing as in like a feeding trough nothing how odd that he turns out to be more famous with more biographies written about him than the roman emperor of the time through no credit of his own sure because this was this was odd no less though the people who the people who supposedly follow him now do exactly the opposite of everything he taught he was a renunciate he was advocated that no rich person could get into heaven that you're supposed to sell all your clothes and give them to the poor oh and pay your taxes he advocated he argued against basically against the entire republican party today which is a surprising thing and then um except on abortion sexuality and i'm sorry what except on abortion and sexuality but the others you're right well numbers five took care of that so i mean we're that's already having and and uh also some jewish scriptures we also we have advocation of of abortions with god's direct involvement and assistance so i just hold on aren't what see i loved all the topics you brought up actually i'm gonna be honest you brought up my favorite topics out of any debate i've ever had on this show in terms of the amount you brought up and just how interesting they were but then the slip was showing at the end here i'm gonna go back to no truth to christianity ever at all so you're saying jesus and i stand by that okay so you're saying all values are false all jesus his life perhaps i did not say that all values are false sources no i did not say that all values are false i said there's no truth to christianity like there's no truth to any religion there's nothing there's nothing that any religion can show that they got more right than all the other religions nothing okay they can't and all of them together can't even show that there's a there there the whole all of religions combined can't show that there's a supernatural at all a supernatural at all right well let's just go over that then real quickly yeah so we're gonna go through the standard run of things i've seen a thousand times and you're gonna pretend as if this is your gameplay okay well all right fine i'll just do fact checking then on everything because if you don't want to go all my because the resurrection evidence has been updated very recently but what you said on faith was just malarkey i didn't say i don't say anything on faith nothing i said was malarkey then faith you said faith is what is fully determined god is is based off of your faith some type of wish fulfillment and whether you connect to it or not then you're gonna go to hell if you don't if you don't really connect with it and so i that is i don't think that's what i said at all you are judged on whether you believe in christianity you're and you're given a completely binary sentence which is utterly ridiculous i don't know if you get you get the impossible promise the the impossible promise of a posthumous reward for believers and then non-believers are faced with the threat of a fate worse than death that is so far extreme and so over the top in both directions that it negates itself there is no way that an actual considerate nor that a day being at all of any kind of superior intelligence would allow there to be a hell it certainly wouldn't have a judgment of the type that you're talking about where it's extremely binary what would be the opposite of supreme goodness then if it's a complete attrition of it what would it be why would i need an opposite of supreme goodness if god is supreme goodness or let's just say a place let's look okay but your god is not but let's pretend for a moment that it is why would i need to come up with it an opposite for you don't need to you don't need to i'm just saying the opposite of would be what the opposite god would be what that's why the eternal merciless torture in hell that would be the exact opposite of your god that's why hell was the first thing that i had to let go of even as a young christian because i realized that hell was inconsistent with god but there's so much iso jesus going here that i just want to do a little exegesis and one of them being just here for the jews for example then you got to explain the good samaritan why is the samaritan raised up you got to explain the samaritan the woman at the well in john chapter four there is no way you can set up a case that jesus was just here for the jews the jews were the chosen people in the old he did say that over again over and over again yes you did what's that he did say that over and over again yes and he was just here for the jews and yes he actually said that a number of times then all these other examples were given especially in the book of revelation about and then every tribe in nation in the lations and then all these examples of welcoming samaritans so what is he just contradicting himself completely i would guess so yes because that happens a lot in the bible as you've noticed i'm sure no i think it's beautifully put in in order to not see contradictions but a level of tension that makes you actually look deeper he does not speak in total black and white nor is the bible spoken completely in black and white and that's what i'm talking about so you're you're denying the heaven and hell option gospels the beauty of the history of the gospels is again any good historian or literalist would talk literaryist would talk about the importance of the tension not contradiction but the tension in in reporting and writing i think the only possible beauty in the gospels is that they're not historical how do we know that well because one they're not part of history they're not they're not backed by any historian wait tom holland just backed it tom holland annie murray temporary historians again going back to bart ermann bart ermann bart ermann argues that there was a historical jesus but jesus was not a historical character because he's not recognized by any contemporary historian not one i don't want to cut anybody off but uh unfortunately it is the case that uh when you do speak over stewart his audio is cutting out completely so those little nuances between the open discussion are getting a little bit lost on the internet trail so uh just if we could mitigate a few of the interruptions that would be okay just so that uh it's not as open as what we'd like it to be but that's okay if stewart wants to challenge me that there is truth to creationism excuse me if that there is truth to christianity making a distinction there he's welcome to show me what that truth is truth to christianity is that what you said yeah i mean that's the that's the debate right that's exactly what the debate is so show me show me truth of christianity so show me something that christianity teaches that's apart from anybody other religion that is actually true okay okay wait a second are you asking for me to to teach you something on jesus's teachings that's true or am i giving evidence here for like the reliability of the gospels and resurrection yeah okay so if we were talking i will go by you i feel like i'm bringing up hinduism and i was going to bring up something that hinduism teaches that is actually true and this and then therefore this is the truth of hinduism this shows that hinduism is true yeah that i would i would be giving some kind of uh i'd be giving evidence for that the type of theology that they're that they're talking about i would be able to show that there is a there there i you can't do that that's why you've used the opening arguments that you did because they all they all demonstrate that you already know we can't go there no no i hear so many secularists say things like agreeing with the basic facts on the resurrection for example that there was a well-known tomb of joseph of erith erema thea that women whose testimony we thrown out of court of law were the first eyewitnesses that even joseph joseph said that that the disciples had some type of experience and that then people like paul and james were converted but even before that there was an incredible historical context with people like zutonius calcis joseph is all of these are at least 10 of them historical non-christian writers who weren't just talking about jesus existing and dying on a cross but they were even setting up that that jesus was a miracle worker so you got to explain that one if we're just going to toss out jesus a miracle worker because his disciples said so fine but then you got to you got to talk to me about the 10 then you have them talking about the christian talk to you about the what christian started worshiping on a third day why do they talk to you about the what i think he missed what you said they're doing the miracle work my confusion there is then why were there so many secular historians and emperors and eyewitnesses saying that he was a miracle worker you mean why were there no eyewitnesses what do you mean what why was there not one eyewitness i would they say that why would joseph is why would who say that why would joseph is zutonius and calcis all say that he was a miracle worker okay so lots of people doing the little bit in magic tricks like faith healers still do today i don't have a problem with that but we don't have eyewitnesses we have claims of eyewitnesses we have claims that 500 people saw this we don't have a single testimony from any one of those 500 we don't have 500 testimonies we just have a single claim that 500 anonymous people saw this matthew mark john paul james and all the anonymous those are not the authors of those gospels how do you know that because one they're not identified as that we just that they just arbitrarily put names on that they're not written from the first person perspective identifying the authors in that case so there's no reason to associate other than the the fact that tradition has put those names on it well the full burden of proof is on you for that one okay i just gave it i don't that did not sound sufficient to get out from underneath okay so we have no reason to believe that those are the names that belong there even barred ermin even though he even though he makes that point he does not hold solidly to that point does he allow that maybe maybe luke was actually the author of luke maybe mm-hmm but matthew and mark no so we have we have a hard maybe on luke maybe hard no on mark and luke oh mark and matthew and then john fknup that we got a completely different story on john we have a propagandist writing an entirely different tale in the case of john okay so i don't again we have to look at the whole logic of it we know adamany didn't happen we know that none of the original sin thing happened we know that at the most of the things that jesus is teaching for they're all wrong he got all of that wrong the supernatural aspect is all wrong that the moral judgment of it for you know the heaven and hell aspect all of that is wrong so what's not wrong what's actually true well i'm still stuck on these gospel writers because again the burn approves on you and you i don't think you've given me a good enough evidence to believe that it was not those four second okay so the experts agree we just had this the experts agree that maybe i would they be not hard yes but maybe and tell me maybe luke was written by luke hold on a second oh familiar matthew and mark were not written by matthew and mark and neither was john why were they so familiar with things like botany you know with luke talking about for example oh you mean jesus getting the wrong size the seeds wrong and i would data figs wrong familiarity one second there are we'll let steward expound on what he's thinking there just for a second just because his audio is cutting out my audio always goes i notice that for all these debates are the cards and is the deck stacked against me here ryan you need to get one of these i should not look at your chat these people hate me they lie about me every other post don't be lying about our speakers in the chat give them yeah tell me i hate my father all kinds of shit you'd be amazed at the slander going on here all of it wrong well i'm gonna pop in there and i get that i look like a disney villain okay fine that doesn't mean i'm actually evil well i'm gonna pop in there right quick and just mitigate the chat a little bit make sure you're being kind in there and your usual oh they're fucking everybody i'm just not even gonna look at this because it's bad oh no well uh just to remind everybody to hit the like button uh you know regardless of what you're saying haters be haters we don't mind you you know you know sweat off our back you know we'll move on without you uh we still got up to 30 minutes of open discussion everybody so make sure that you're sharing this out in those contentious spaces you'll like to have those debates and let's uh keep it rolling fellas so let's pass it back to you stewart there and keep the conversation rolling all right let me get my verbosity out for one second then you respond i see the problem with your what you're positing right now is there's no nobody has brought a great case where they're like i am certain the gospel writers we got the names wrong everybody's like speculation i don't know if it really was them so my case for them actually being the correct ones were their names were on the documents from the very beginning and so if you're gonna trust even the narrative of the gospel which aren't i don't think you do you're gonna have to trust that if you actually trust the dating and the names now i think the names obviously jive with the culture at the time you know you got obviously the names that they bring up all the time are simon peter joseph matthew all those names are the names that were used then you have bought i trust the gospel of thomas probably more than i trust the other four yeah well the gospel of thomas is barely any any copies yeah i i realize that but it's got the only wisdom from jesus in it what was that when his disciples asked him what he thought about about circumcision and jesus said that if god meant for us to be circumcised we would have been born without foreskin so that makes perfect sense i didn't know that passage that is the bumper sticker right there like that so what is that a factory recall so so they get names right then they get botany right the sycamore tree how do they get botany right and why is that relevant they use things like the sycamore tree for example a luke look chapter 19 was that kias he climbs up into the sycamore tree okay for the olive for example garden of get seminy connected and the relevance there it's all it's all botany so i'm just saying that they know so jesus getting the the date of figs wrong and the size of the smallest seed wrong that's that's the the gospel is getting botany right well that's jesus i'm talking about the gospel writers right now no what could you write what the fuck does jesus know so we're talking about looking for the truth of christianity right so that there's a god and you have to believe in in jesus for whatever reason and if you don't believe in jesus then it doesn't matter what you how you dedicate your life you're going to hell because there's a hell because god is a punk and completely unjust an unrighteous judge and you've got this eternal damnation either way right because if you go to heaven that's eternal damnation too you just don't realize it the first day in the door it'll take you a couple of days to realize that that's hell too so where's the truth of christianity where's the true part of christianity the true part i would say in terms of the teaching is the brilliancy of if god if there is a god it would make a whole lot of sense for god to meet humanity in physical form and punching doesn't he already automatically do that with every creation what do you mean the only way i can view this is if i was a god i would automatically feel because he's telepathic i would be able to feel that that every paramecium i would know what sensations they're going through i would be able to sense every fucking thing i wouldn't need to create some hippy based on what you know the image of the borges and then in order to forgive somebody for something they never did in the first place which is another important point that never happened but even if it did happen i would have the unconditional love that doesn't have conditions i would be able to forgive without having my people have to do something unforgivable first so you wouldn't have to kill jesus to stay out of hell because i would be a good god not even great god but i would be a better god than your god i wouldn't allow there to be a hell because that's stupid it's not possible to earn an eternal damnation you you can't be bad enough 10 000 hitlers times square do you you can't be bad enough to be worth hell so then you disagree with david foster wall is then when he says okay he can be wrong too i don't care oh it's here on earth and simply eternal hell is just that hell writ large because your hell on earth here is the imposter syndrome that you have to live with when you worship something like your looks or your job i don't worship anything remember what's that i don't worship anything it was one of the many things you got wrong when you tried to describe atheism i know you hate the word because you hate everything the only thing i hate is injustice my favorite part about you is your emotional bias which i like i don't have an emotional bias i don't hate anything either except for injustice that includes lies and that's what pits me against religion well here okay so god let's go back to your original question because it's a good one well let's take for example okay god meets us in different ways and you would say no i have had it i just said yes i just said that i then for example i think god would would know everything that we know every pain that we feel god would know all of it how do you know he doesn't why would you have to do as you said where he creates his himself as his son oh by the way i need to show people this shirt are you there god it's me you because i just that's that's how ridiculous christ christianity is and i sidetracked myself remind me where were we then one of those to ryan i think ryan wants one okay me no no i'm just i'm just hanging out i thought a little but i ryan don't know so why would god have to create his son stupid idea to to then have to sacrifice his son the idea that he ever demanded to sacrifice it all again stupid again evidence against god so that he could forgive us when he could have just forgiven us anyway and it was entirely his fault everything that went on in the fable of the garden he did that he did and it was all wrong but you know it doesn't matter because it didn't happen so no truth no no original sin no adam and eve no tower babble no global flood of Noah's ark no exodus no Jonah in a whale none of that none of that happened so even if there was a jesus what do you got you got a first century faith healer you've got the kenneth copeland of the first century big fucking deal so jesus is trying to come up with his his his first century version of the citation jet while telling everybody else that they have to sell all their clothes and go into the poor house so that they can support the poor now maybe they're donating their money to jesus i don't know how he's funding his operation i remember that um that um how what was it bobby tilton here in dallas a big mega preacher he was donating all this money to a charity a boys charity uh for orphans in Haiti which here's a surprise i know you don't see this coming it was confirmed that that that orphanage never existed and the reason it was in Haiti was so that he could fund the money out that he was getting hundreds of millions of dollars in people and funding it up supposedly the charity now i don't know that jesus was doing that but it sounds like the same kind of scam well then i don't know why in the world you have the mother teresa don't you start that mother teresa line on me i have to say a word i don't know she already realized what a bad argument that is it really hurts my feelings when anybody speaks ill of mother teresa my wife works in the mother teresa home cutting a lot of toenails but for me it's the whole piece on your original question if there is a god how would he meet us and i gave one example of he became human here on this earth which he didn't need to do i am very pro psilocybin and dmt and a lot of these drugs because these have shown that 40 of heart atheists became theists after these drug trips so i think that that's another way that god meets us wait wait i i one of the things that really impresses me about talking to believers is the citations of statistics that can't be backed up and any claim of fact look it up never never backed up i was a couple of weeks ago i was i was in washington state protesting oh what the fuck is his name the blonde boy who who claimed that he went to uh to to to satan con and converted 98 satanists to jesus but he couldn't come up with name one not one person he had a handful of pictures that he took with people for people who just were polite enough to pose for pictures with him and were satanist before they went there and our satanists still so we got this guy lyin right lie lie lie he said that the 28th that the 20 satanists had run away when there's 40 of us still standing there at the end of the day so lie lie lie that's what i get christianity nothing but lies can you show me something that isn't just another stupid lie sure statistically christians give away the most statistically statistically according to multiple op-ed writers at the new york times right now who went down to africa they said they had the same view as you and they said if africa didn't have christians the aids epidemic would be off the charts it's the same christians on the front lines they're the main ones pushing for anti-sex trafficking right now so what's the largest denomination of christianity there's and this is not we can have that debate in terms of i'm i asked them just asking the question what is the largest denomination christianity well hold on to that one stewart let's wrap up your point okay wait ryan i didn't hear you oh i said uh hold on to his question he wants you to finish it's okay i want you to ask the question i just wanted to make sure you wrapped up your point there i can't remember my point but i'll i'll just finish a previous point to the question so god meets us through dmt and psilocybin and marijuana god only exists in those forms done here to this planet in human form to physically connect with us god is now statistically i have friends who are on the mission field in muslim territories who all say that thousands of muslims are becoming christians because they're having dreams where they're meeting christ god comes to us via and i'm gonna challenge you on that one too because there's no way you're gonna be able to verify that of inmates of inmates who are across the country and all the christian rescue missions they're all christian based the oxford group based obviously a a some of those are non christian now all of these are meeting god as a at least at least not as a christian god but as a higher power to get outside of self in order to have a relationship with him where they worship something other than the finite and by doing so they get healthy so that's a few ways that god meets us i think and and it makes sense you know a lot of your tours i'm gonna say that most of what you just said is indefensible bullshit yes i agree now when you said that christians give more than most people i'll concede that one because christians are the largest demographic if you include the largest body of christians but then what is the largest denomination of christians that's catholics they're slightly over half of all christians collectively are catholics feasing what's that they're decreasing greatly but yes they will the entity as a whole is decreasing greatly but regardless catholicism is still over half of all christians are catholics agreed it depends on you call catholic christians because so many people don't consider okay so if catholics are not christian then christians are the fourth largest religion islam is the dominant faith followed by catholicism on some charts that may be followed by hinduism that you because catholics and hindus are very close to the second place position and then the fourth place would be protestant christianity so if you if you eliminate christ catholics well then you're you're in a very minority position if you maintain the largest denomination of christianity being catholics let's not forget that hope benedict who i prefer to call darth ratsinger went into went went into africa arguing that the use of condoms causes aids he said that this is the leader of the largest denomination of christianity and you want to say that if what if it wasn't for christianity you know if the the the aids epidemic would have been widespread right fuck because of christianity the aids epidemic was widespread across africa because fucking darth ratsinger said that because what about all the marches right now by the atheists who are saying we are here we are queer and we're coming for your children i mean i'd say there's some serious indoctrination going on here for these poor kids we're coming for your children are you sure you didn't quote that off of fox news i'm just saying this i have marched in a gay pride march i'm not gay but i you know representing an atheist group i have marched in a gay prayer i don't remember anybody saying we're coming for your children except except for the christians who come to my door asking me how can we best target target you that word target children well who would you rather meet in the back alley a christian or an atheist atheist absolutely well if it was you because we know that the men in dresses molesting children are not the trans people hey teachers are doing that more than priests are and i'm not a i do we have statistics for that really i mean how many how many religious leaders do we have to find out we're actually not just doing it themselves but we're covering up for other pedophiles as well how many how many times do we have to have some homophobic leader of a you know family organization because all the religious groups have the word family in it just means that they hate gays so this doesn't decrease the credibility for jesus christ though does it but we don't we don't start from we start from zero there is still no credibility we have a first century faith healer who was wrong about everything that's what we start from and then build up to what we build up to the guy didn't know anything then then died yeah he said he was coming back while some of his apostles or some of his disciples and us would still be alive he didn't he failed their dad he's 1900 years late he didn't say in their lifetime yeah he did some of you some of you standing here some of you will not even taste of death before they see that you know the son of man coming at the right hand of power in the kingdom with the clouds and all that kind of shit that was about the collapse of the temple 70 ad didn't happen they never saw jesus returning in the clouds at the right hand of power never happened what was promised did not occur do you honestly believe this whole piece on jesus and faith and that's if you just aren't smart enough you can't grasp this faith you're just going to hell i mean look at how he dealt with for example you know the man who was going to heal the son when the man said i do believe help my unbelief jesus doesn't scold him or for example when encountering peter i also i do believe that jesus didn't actually revive somebody who was literally dead jesus what i don't believe that jesus revived anyone who was actually dead i believe that i believe that jesus did the same kind of bullshit stick that we've seen peter popov do that we've seen bobby tilton doing and and all of these other faith healers where they where they they they now where they've shown how midgets grow and they hire somebody to sit down in a wheelchair to wheel them on stage so that they can have them walk so they can make a good stage performance out of it and then worse things when you have somebody that's actually convinced that they could that they're been healed and they can stand up out of their wheelchair and they can stand for a moment and now oh yeah that's great now put her back in the chair and wheel her offstage and tell them that they don't need their medication and my friend james randy went to go visit one of these people who did this performance on stage and it was televised and he wanted to go see did she actually a week later did she actually not have to have her medication anymore and when he shows up they're wheeling her out in a gurney dead the religion versus jesus christ and the christian faith religion versus jesus christ no is there different christ is religion no no you brought up what's the world's dominant religion i do not believe that jesus or paul teaches me to go and handle snakes right now who will bite me and kill me do you think it's because i am just deflecting from certain passages in the bible and i'm not actually reading in context or translating you are ignoring certain passages that do clearly say that yes honestly don't believe that that's contextual okay well this one i'm not going to argue for the the the literacy of scripture i will only say that nobody reads the bible more literally than atheists because we don't need to make up any bullshit excuses for what for when it says something we can't allow it to mean a wish always an atheist because that'd be so how many times have i brought up when people say well the bible says this and i say no it doesn't say that and they say yes it does i'm like show me well i can't show you well that's the way it always is isn't it but if i say that the bible says something i can bloody well show you right exactly where it says that and when they say well it doesn't say that then i show them and they say well that's not what it says becomes that's not what it means and that's i love that you do that because they oftentimes go into their little priest and their little priest says don't ask those questions just listen to me and when that occurs and it's not their faith at all and when that occurs it's a total abuse of power you and i agree because that exactly happens somebody finds some horrible thing that the bible really does say they go and visit their priest with it and the priest says just don't ask those questions because dickless ain't got no answer well this might be a good time everybody uh to we got 15 minutes left uh of the open discussion so it might be a good time to focus specifically on the resurrection uh for the next uh you know or try to you know you guys command or all you want but if we can focus on that just for the debate topic and then we'll move into our q and a uh and let's keep it rolling remember everybody to hit that like button i hear if we pass 666 likes on a live stream bruce dickinson will appear and sing the whole number of the beast album it's just a wives tale but let's find out if it's true um all right let's like how people are criticizing me for not coming up with bullshit excuses when i read the scripture that i just read it at read what it says and take it that it says that people are criticizing me for that in your chat they're not they're not my tribe don't worry all right to the resurrection where did paul get again what that he received that received that he probably received it i'm so from my perspective from peter and james when he visited them in jerusalem three years after his conversion so you have that glacians 118 so most scholars believe that that testimony was part of that early creed that i reference that dates right back to the resurrection itself so i witnessed testimony within weeks some would say months so there's no time for there to be a legend that goes about and it obviously occurred the resurrection right in jerusalem so it would be so so easy for both the romans and the jews to say yep here's the body this is ridiculous this is a hoax let's get on with it so the resurrection hypothesis without forcing it i believe has totally explanatory scope and power and it really couldn't be any better than than what it is i mean aren't like science you know if you think about we've never seen a black hole and probably never will or quark or subatomic are several now rings but the reason okay just as example the reason why these things are positive is because we see certain effects so you posit a hypothetical theoretical causes that could result in these effects you understand this they've actually seen several black holes now that would hold on don't get stuck in the black holes that would boost these kinds of effects so therefore even though we've never seen a black hole you know it's a good explanation profitable one on how we can get certain things so i would say in the same sense of historian could say that posit god as a theoretical entity as the cause for the resurrection of jesus so paul's the best source to support jesus's resurrection i've said that before and these are creole can i just declare victory with that statement from you that paul is your best evidence for the resurrection can i just win with that why if that's the best you've got why are we still talking about this no that's just one of nine i gave nine he's just one name don't you worry eight more name nine anonymous buckle up until q and a so that could not be in a follower brother i mean while he's alive and he dies and becomes this martyr he gets thrown from a balcony and the poor james is dead but they're still beating him to death according to tradition at the bottom and the dirt and we get plenty trajan zutonius josephus talking about jesus's brother was crucified james excuse me james his brother was crucified what are we going to do about this he was a miracle worker all of a sudden now what i find is very interesting and which which uh which jesus is this the james the brother of the one that's anointed because we have jesus of damneus and then jesus ben ananias and christians will will point to both of those and say hey that's our guy when neither one is and we know that and your chat is i'm irritated all the people who constantly accuse me of lying when i don't lie and the reason i'm not religious is because i don't lie and religion is just a lie that's a very christian response that's not a very christian response why is it typical that's a very that's a very christian you sound like a christian when you're saying that with your righteous indignation oh that i'm a christian because i said i don't lie yeah because i can prove that what i said is justified yeah whereas when a christian speaks they just utter empty assertions as if that's a matter of fact well sure that goes on i just think you're a goldfish swimming in a pond of these christian values and and you don't realize christian values that predated christianity and that christianity largely denies no the legal system was fully formed based off of the laws that of of the vikings boot system of the jd o christian values but not of christian values not not american laws so i think he's going wild right now yeah let's stay on the resurrect not based on christian anything this is key this is this is the latest resurrection evidence tacitus talked about the third day as a day of worship that the christians changed and then he talked about how the movement stopped and then broke out again in judaea before spreading from how accurate he was talking posthumously about a cult not the guy himself these are non-christian sources right talking posthumously about a cult not the not not uh uh contemporary historians people later talking about the cult not the guy and it wouldn't matter if they were talking about the guy because we're not talking about jesus we're talking about christianity why does it matter though why does it so so facts no matter the theology doesn't matter all right you you tell me what matters in the world why in the world would that matter if they are enemies they do not want christianity to exist if they are backing up the full narrative even if it is 50 to 100 years later that doesn't matter they're saying this is the history that's been passed down and we're going to write in our history books why does it matter whether christianity exists so you're saying that they were duped by the christians then no that's not what i'm saying at all i'm saying i i asked why does you you made an assumption yet another of many baseless and false assumptions that you have made you made the assumption that that i'm thinking that somebody needs to say that christianity doesn't exist why would they need christianity not to exist what does it matter i'm not following right i'm not following it because nothing you're saying about you know atheism is true nothing you're saying about my position is true i'm i'm just a loss of all the nonsense you're playing out of the resurrection topic right now you're pulling a quick one and it's smart because it's i'm not pulling a quick one i'm i'm genuinely confused by the bullshit you're slinging i really don't know where you're coming from service and i get it walk we don't have souls and that's a big problem for the current version of christianity now the original version of christianity where we're all supposed to be walking undead some way maybe but but now we know we don't have souls so that's a problem because that means that the concept of god having you know taking our souls away and leaving our bodies behind that's just factually void now which which version of christianity you are arguing for i'm arguing for the resurrection right now i'm not talking about any denomination or souls i'm not talking about denominations either i'm talking about during jesus's time when he said you wouldn't die you would just continue living they and and when they were talking about uh the undead souls of the saints would be like getting up and walking around right there's that version or there's the the modern reinterpretation where we have these invisible spirit pieces in us that like look like us but are like you know a spiritual component of us that gets out and then you know drives another vehicle or goes it goes away somewhere right is that what you're arguing for do we have an invisible soul in this according to you no that's a good question because i want to get what why you're so certain there is not a soul in a second let me answer first what is a prophet a man if he gains the whole world yet forfeits his soul i'm writing a book on this topic okay first book we'll see how good but what soul means there contextually is the soul is the physical it's the social the relational it's the emotional context you don't believe in the supernatural soul all is the whole person so you don't believe in a supernatural direction we're not going to be floating souls we're going to be physical relational body so i'm looking for a yes or a no here you don't believe in a supernatural soul i just gave you my answer it but it is undeterminable as a yes or no do you believe that when the body dies that there's this like i don't know transparent maybe crystal blue version of you that goes walking along in a misty form where it floats up without feet whatever do you believe in a in a supernatural component of spiritual aspect that animates life do you do you believe that when you're when when darth vader cuts your body down that that luke will be able to talk to the phosphorescent blue sparkling you later you put it so beautifully you're kind of making an attractive idea for me so maybe but yes i believe that there is all of in our language is our and raw myself steward yourself our experience not connected to our bodies in the sense of when we're talking about our personal selves selfhood i think that that could be connected to this little blue guy who's going to be floating away perhaps when we die perhaps it's connected to near-death experiences okay so you do believe in this spiritual thing that supposedly exists in or integrated with or interfused with our body that when our physical body dies there's some spirit like what yoda said you know we are luminous beings not this crude matter yeah yeah i think i think it makes a lot more sense the way you put it it doesn't make much sense i agree but the way i would put it i think it makes total sense when it comes into okay well then make your attempt to make that make sense because i've talked to some leading philosophers and they don't think it makes sense at all what can steward say well you gotta talk to jp morland then he's the best contest so steward can't say anything no but steward's about to say it steward just gave two answers and he started in on a third but then got rudely interrupted and his his train of thought is is lacking right now but coming back i think everything my third point would be the self selfhood personhood this innate drive metaphysical drive that came out of the bible even the harry potter fans would say this even you know sweet jk rowling who says she's a christian says that the metaphysical piece of equality for all and the soul outside of the body is something that we all believe truly in whether we are going to be honest about it or not you're not just noro so if i disagree with you i'm dishonest is that the poisoning of the well that we're doing right now see the alternative is just your neurochemicals and neurons you're a moist if i disagree with you that i'm being dishonest is that the picture you're painting now you're a moist robot and you're only getting moisture right now is so that is the poison that you're putting into the well what is that if i disagree with you because of course i do and you knew that before you said it but it's not because i'm dishonest it's because christianity is dishonest and asserts baseless speculation as if it was a matter of fact which is fundamentally a lie no i think are see we're getting into more of the experiential right now i think scientifically when you brought up to me once or was it your buddy um t jump your buddy t jump when we were we had this debate on the soul and he's he is hoping a prayer and he's not here i like the guy nothing bad against him he's hoping a prayer was hey yeah you can look at you know if a person dies um you can look at his memories and actually people can write out his memories and he was trying to make a case for the brain and and i think that fails every single time because i think there's something immaterial that we cannot nail down scientifically and when you look at it it explains our experience and you can go to near-death experiences for example there's something outside of arans physical body and simply his neurochemicals that is attached to love consciousness meaning and purpose that that is connected to a soul now if you want me to give the soul a physical description no i the soul is outside of my body now is it no those things are attached to and give evidence to something in your experience that's you that's not just your body and you've got to be able to get on board with that i i i think that's pretty logical i think the way you put it yeah you're right it is a logical in the sense of this this blue avatar oh oh we have a cute doggie we actually only have one more minute so everybody we've been listening to steward's definition of the soul iran's refutation of the soul and now we're looking at a cute puppy so i i wish i wish that i there's one thing that you have as an advantage to me and that religious people regardless of religion have as this advantage and you that's that you can just say whatever the fuck you want to say as if it's true i don't have that ability i call that lying if i can't show the truth of it and i say it's true that's a lie and yet never do i see an r and r say yes to steward on is atheism rational but maybe you will you will say yeah not believing impossible nonsense for no good reason is definitely rational yes no no there's there's a world view that you have and see your yeah and that's that's being rationalism that is literally that's the definition of a worldview i would love to deconstruct that one we actually yeah well that that's another debate unfortunately they sold you the wrong one you came for the wrong one and you didn't come prepared for that one no you are slamming the door before i can give anything but you you thought you were arguing whether christianity was rational and the arguments that you made the disjointed runken stupor arguments that you made i'm not drinking with rationalism i'm not drinking or drinking right now we we sir i was gonna say no as a correction right i'm i'm sorry gents so i was trying to cut in there this might be a good time to go into the q and a we do have quite a few questions coming in uh you know hopefully everybody's been enjoying this and definitely hit that like button we were just ending off our discussion about is christianity true uh with some notions uh of our thoughts about the soul so we're gonna kick it into q and a so thank you everybody for being here and once again a reminder that we're doing a live event and iron's gonna actually be there that's gonna be saturday i got a number 16 i think you do you already said you would buddy i'm sorry i mean if you don't show up now we're gonna we're gonna say things about j you know we'll be like that guy that guy i won't tip one back with him you know next no i will i always will reading is yeah richard clark fuck you no i haven't been caught in any lies i don't talk well i should never remind our live chat because there are nice people and there are not so nice people and then there's richard clark richard clark you're getting called out sorry buddy uh that happens sometimes on live stream be polite uh so uh just want to remind everybody exactly that keep your q and a's friendly because i'm not going to read them if they're just mud slinging because i don't care for that and uh i want to watch what i say online here because i've remained enigmatic everybody online is like oh i wonder what ryan believes you'll never know or maybe you will who knows right but uh either way i gotta be hate the unlucky legume ten dollars can we get some superjats going to support modern day debate seeing as they went to the trouble of setting this up and missed out on a night of live streaming well thank you unlikely legume we're doing all right over here at modern day debate uh you know we got lots of debates coming up and we are going to organize a debate on a positive atheist claim i know leo philius wanted to do that with nadir and them so we are going to look into getting that set up again the case for positive atheism but just stay tuned for that i'm also looking at getting an astrology debate set up so uh yeah keep your eyes peeled for that because that's going to be a first time on modern day debate charles lainer for a dollar ninety nine james still the goat well i actually uh i agree of course because uh he's he's kind of my boss in a certain sense i mean we work together kind of in a partnership but i mean i i'm going to check with him before i do anything so these are all for modern day debate apparently all off the bat uh melovaya at work can't watch you i love you erin well thank you that's a nice positive membership chat melovaya actually had a problem with me saying kick it over and messaged me on discord so i've i've tried to mitigate it a little bit but after he messaged me to say stop saying kick it over all the time i was kicking it over the entire debate because i'm a rock star and i gotta be rebel oflamio for six six six the number of the beast six six six from oflamio steward here is my solution to relativism if you give me an f i will give you a nuggie professor incentive persist in relativism steward yeah i don't what i i'll read it again exactly as it's written out but oflamio maybe you want to clarify stewart here is my solution to relativism if you give me an f i think like on a quiz i will give you a nuggie professor so like i will physically abuse you professor uh if you give me an f incentives persist in relativism stewart oh sure absolutely but it's still ultimately yeah okay ryan was i get further you went like this i didn't know whether to stop or not no no you're good if you want to respond to that that's all there is to it yeah exactly i i don't disagree with that statement there's still gonna be objective standards out there though we know it's not all relative we know ultimately it's wrong really wrong to kick a puppy especially one of those beautiful ones that uh aron has back there very pretty pops he's got a lot of nice snakes too and my daughter is obsessed with snakes so all the time she's coming to me asking if she can buy one get a boa i i'm gonna have to look into that for sure because uh you know it's a long time coming uh oflamio for three dollars and 33 cents uh you know the devil's younger brother there half of the 666 how do we know yaway won't eat us to stewart what won't eat us how do we know yaway won't eat us to stewart i think they're talking about your religion confused with cthulhu i think they might be talking about like a yeah like the dog eat dog kind of thing of survival the fittest baby i don't know if that got brought up or i'm not sure oflamio you're you're giving us some curveballs buddy tonight you know you're usually a little bit more consistent uh do you have anything to say on that stewart or just yeah yeah i again i it's the whole idea of i mean why not treat our fellow man as just an annoying punkish little ape running around if it's simply evolution and there is no god and christianity didn't exist i just i don't know why we wouldn't do that it you know we were raised red and tooth and claw it's an ape you know we came up we came from apes why not just love one another all yeah so if we're a social animal uh because we are apes uh and therefore we're just we're entirely reliant on a social structure in lieu of there being a god because there is no god so the one thing that we have to rely on is somebody who stands by their word and who shows empathy and for his family friends and fellows and shut up stop it i'm on camera that's not for you stewart i swear right our ends a little more polite than that generally iron mind your manners my god no you're all good so being as we are apes uh and and we're all equal here we're all part of nature not apart from it uh and then there is no there is no outside force to come save us from ourselves we are our only hope we have to help each other this is one of the reasons this is how morality evolved there was a there was a time in our in our evolution where we didn't have big brains yet and we didn't have quite the the muscular strength that chimpanzees and gorillas had but what we did have was a stronger sense of empathy than they have now we're in some terrible predator attacks the weakest or slowest of us and suddenly they realized that they have to face all of us that we're not running away to leave the slow in the week behind we're all turning and facing that enemy all of us at once and every big cat realized hey i can't kill all fucking 40 of them so i have to back the fuck off that's what made a suspect a great species that's what enabled our intelligence to grow that's how we became moral and that is exactly where it stops empathy we don't get love and if we just go with the empathy how do you not get love from empathy i don't i don't so how do you make these assumptions for example oj simpson's lawyer talked about how look in the shame and honor cultures or if you look from evolution and then you all of a sudden turn towards christianity then you're going to see a type of self-sacrificing love that has never been part of any other culture so you have that this been part of every culture if you're simply going to go from the empathetic side of things yes there's empathy so it's been part of every culture but ultimately ultimately you have to land with empathy it's an atheist overreach i'm going to love somebody across the grove and i'm going to fight for human rights no matter what the consciousness rationale no matter what suffering level no only christianity spread the image of god except except that you just you just contradicted yourself you're describing the atheist or one suddenly described it in suddenly claim that it was the christian position this is my question i get to end here so so for me it's the selfish nave that unfortunately would break down aran's pretty little picture right there where yes we do want to fight the lion or we do want to team up and work together but ultimately if i'm a free rider and it's not going to really hurt the team why can't it just be a free rider as opposed to what you're talking about is the aberration that that can't be relied upon that doesn't have the empathy that that doesn't back their word and so through a matter of population mechanics those people tend to be removed from the gene pool either being by being ostracized imprisoned or killed so one way or the other they're out no i i can be very good at stealing with my hedge fund for example i can cheat the rs very easily and that has nothing to do with what i just said along with that though from your perspective i said from a matter of population mechanics such people as you're describing tend to be identified and and ostracized okay but not really not my neck of the woods maybe yours maybe in texas but i live in fairfield county connecticut and those who get away with all kinds of things whether it's cheating on your wife or cheating on your taxes they're not really ostracized i'm going to be real if anything they're they're right they're republicans well no connecticut's fairly blue now i wait i wish it was in texas they're all republicans the people that you're describing right now no no texas is getting more and more blue and austin is except the people that you're describing right now are republicans oh i'm talking about the center of hypocrisy definitely hit definitely gop and to end since this was my question to end this connects to aren't pushing me on christian values and another one that was unique was forgiveness to christianity as you don't have as our nation has become a little more secularized fortunately atheism will decrease in the years to come according to pure research and it will fortunately not because it's growing by attenuation not birth rates less are and increases and he's already doing a great job because they don't they habitually never count for attenuation that's how atheism grows atheism doesn't grow by birth rates it grows by attenuation yeah and they're not you guys aren't gonna have any more babies that's the problem but we don't grow by birth rates so it doesn't matter how fast christianity grows or islam grows by birth rates because once those went when islam moves into europe for example then their problem is attenuation so that a significant percentage of their adults aren't muslim anymore and the same things going on with christianity where they lose a huge amount they lose at minimum of 20 percent minimum when you say attenuation break that down this is when people no longer believe yeah daniel denett and his wife started the clergy project and they they realize that if they're getting a lot of preachers who contact them because they no longer buy the bullshit that they've been selling for so many decades but here they are stuck in this job how do you move from what what career would you move to from preacher used car salesman what else can you do so they reach out to this network the clergy project network and what the and one of the statistics that they're noticing is that people when they realize they no longer believe in christianity they come out being more liberal they're more tolerant they're more curious they want to go back to college they want to learn the things that they never learned before they end up being just on the whole better people well that'll be our next debate wait ryan ryan forgiveness forgiveness it came from the cross of christ and as secularization grows a little bit not atheism secularization now you see forgiveness start to break down especially in political circles and especially in the echo chambers and as objective morality breaks down now we're all shouting over each other christians were supposed to be the preachy ones but now all of a sudden everybody is preachy but christians and so for a forgiving god is what we all desire and that has a lot to do except that we don't all desire that well if you're if you want to love and actually grow the population if you want to love and grow and not believe in impossible nonsense for no good reason then you don't want to you don't want to go why do atheists always say i'm just forgiving for my own sake and not for the sake of the other because we don't say that and that's not what i said it's because it's a christian value no it's not a christian value i remember the satanic temple that's that's actually in their seven tenets is forgiveness but forgiveness but we actually have a way of doing forgiveness where christianity doesn't christianity doesn't do forgiveness they put you in hell oh you didn't believe the stupid story without any evidence well i'm sorry it doesn't matter what your bullshit excuse is you're going to hell it doesn't matter how you thought that you know no no you're going to hell because we're judgmental and not righteous judge but in satanism we have a means of forgiveness the only the issue with forgiveness is that you have to understand that you've done something wrong there has to be some kind of admission that yeah i fucked up and i i need to make this right and upon making that statement now we can work with you on making it right that's what i really love that i like that there is a means of forgiveness because there's not many organizations that offer that you like that story all right he likes it in christianity next question i like that excuse me what you said you like that part about christianity forgiveness are you lying about me again next christianity always about lying shit next question what seriously why is everything you believe a lie and everything you say in defense of those lies always a lie that's the problem i have with christian no was it my it may have been my hearing i honestly thought you said that no i didn't say i said i was satanist that's what i liked about satanism was that there's a there's a there's a a means of forgiveness where christianity doesn't have that all right christians don't forgive and the doctrine is not because you have hell which means that there's no rehabilitation you're simply judged not even on whether you're moral or immoral but whether or what you believed believed that's what you're being judged for three case that immoral is that three case studies i want you to look up just in the last couple years bofam gene and the shooting of the racist white cop and forgive does that have any fuck all to do with christian theology and whether god judges you or whether you believe they are based off of christian doesn't change the fact that your theology says that your god judges you entirely over whether or what you believe all right let's let stewart wrap this one up there and then we'll move on i don't think he can these huge snooze stories that captivated the entire nation which have nothing to do with your theology the aumish trip no no no i'm gonna get there all based off of christian correct theology not this hell and fire you can't say those two contradictory things in the same sentence just expect to get away with it awesome gene say that christian theology is correct and just have me accept that because it's not there's no such thing as a christ as a correct theology but if there was it wouldn't be christian well i mean you guys you guys dig your own your own grave here i mean we'll go as late as you guys want to go i'm having a ball i'm trying to respect you guys this time because you know you might have certain constraints but uh i'm fine for you guys to riff as long as you want to riff honestly oh i don't want to spend here all night i've been working on another script all day i was gonna say that's why i say if you guys want to keep going on this one uh this one question mostly unconscious no i'm having a good time fuck you i really shouldn't look at your chat there's some idiots in there what are you drinking don't we don't get curious arne what are you drinking a local brew who tam tam tress you know i i i'd said there aren't a bb oh 12 percent i was gonna say i i've got like a four percent because i'm behaving myself but it's actually on brand it's called the none on the run yeah now what i started this evening with was i killed this bottle but how i watched you do that yeah that was me very good stuff by the way oh man that was that was that was rough opening up that let's move on to the next super chat sorry steward did you have some commentary what are you what are you up to over there i just said i had cut water for the first time a couple days ago does that mean you peed yourself i don't get it that tends to happen after i drink a little bit yes yes okay it's going to happen eventually if we keep drinking beer the way we were uh oh i should say big thing flying away in says for ten dollars steward i'm paying ten dollars for you to stop using the we worship everything argument this is where it gets a little spicy he says that argument is trash money isn't an extraordinary claim exists your god doesn't quit false equivocating yeah and if there's one i could plead for i get i get really really really tired of the thing about well you're an atheist you think everything came from nothing no fucking nobody believes that stop fucking saying that creationists believe everything came from nothing we don't that's another i'm actually gonna want to get your take on that but the worship one no don't take it from me there little angry elf take it from a very strong creative angry elf whoever that kid was he sounded like a little he sounded angry big saying flying wane you're getting called a little elf i think just take it take it from the atheist i was quoting who many would have said would have been the top top fiction writer in our generation who unfortunately hung himself i promise not because of his atheism i promise it was not because of the bleakness of his worldview and nothing to do with that it had to do because our worldview is not bleak it was more so a matter of him saying if you really focus on what you unconsciously believe and you really like i see this all the time and i gave an example of the girl who's in the psych unit because she really started feeling like i'm worshiping my art and she didn't make it into the school she wanted to make it in and so she went crazy and this happens all the time around me maybe not all the time around you but even if it's not to that extreme i think we can all all honestly say and i know worship the word worship is triggering for atheists so i won't because we don't worship and we don't like being lied about whatever you ultimately find worthy or the most important in your life can we say that but if i find something important that doesn't mean i worship it sure that now that's that's what i'm saying okay it's the most important thing so whatever you find most important you can get in trouble his point is as opposed to if it's located something that's not fine it for example i know many people who have gotten mentally and emotionally and i mean physically even crushed by the death of loved ones well you gotta love your loved ones but if you don't have anything higher than your loved ones unfortunately life is going to get really hard and downright depressing and crushing if you have the death of a loved one occurred if they're kind of what you find most important in this life so that's the point he's making that's the point he's making this is one of the difficulties i have about speaking for anybody else because i understand that some people deal with depression and it's not something that i can even relate to for whatever reason i've just i've always had a very positive outlook like always i've enjoyed every minute of my life even at my work even at my lowest points i still managed to enjoy my life better than some people enjoy their better moments i don't know why that is but i'm glad that that is that way and where i see injustice in the world is is often on behalf on behalf of christians i see people who get away with terrible crimes and they just and they don't even know that they've done anything wrong they'll never even admit that they fucked up over you know fucked over other people and i find that disastrous when other people very often christians get completely screwed over and their karma is it's such that they had they end up with these horrible horrible existences that i couldn't even bear that i would not want to live through some of the things that i've seen other people live through and these are christians some of the most some of the most morose lives i've ever seen have been from diehard believers and i'm not saying that i'm not blaming the belief on that it should maybe the belief has something to do with it with their inability to take power over it i don't know but i i still feel empathy for these people for for being in such a miserable situation i never experienced that i've always had it good i think even when i was always poor and it's not like that but i mean i've just always enjoyed life and i and i and i i lament that there's a bunch of other people that i know of who have never been able to enjoy any moment the way that i enjoy most well that's that's great iron is a is a optimist and we're happy to hear that because you know there's a lot of people around here that yeah you know you're in the live chat if you just got something miserable to say well you just heard aron's outlook on life uh you know you're not going to bring him down with uh your your little petty comments in the live chat so keep them there's a lot of petty comments keep them on point people uh because we don't appreciate uh people that are just trolling in the live chat we want to keep uh we're trying to elevate the discussion over here at modern day debate and vet a bit more and do what we can so um you know behave in there because we don't want to put you on time out buy this poppy for 499 stewart if humans are prone to sin and lying is a sin why is it not likely that followers of jesus lied about his resurrection because of what we talked about in terms of were the eyewitnesses legitimate could we trust them were they early and if it was early testimony then it was unlikely that this even lie could get off the ground was it was there enemy attestations that's a big one as well there's enemy attestation to it that this really did happen we got to make up some type of rumor then even if they are prone to lie you have extraneous things going on that still shows that the resurrection occurred so yes didn't occur correction anybody didn't occur yeah it's a frustrating thing i see all these comments of the chat and and then from also stewart where they just say these things like they're true but they're that are not defensively true well it's whoever says it most confidently between you and me is going to win the debate well it doesn't matter what their confidence is because i've seen liars that are extremely astute of being confident so confidence means nothing or you just it's just whether you can show that it's true but it's your word versus my word so often here it sounds like okay but but i can show i just make a point and you come down you bring the javel with this authoritative statement saying it's just not true i can't help that i'm right i'm sorry and it's confident but i could say that about anything yeah you could you could lie about anything with equal confidence on is whether we can show that it is true i brought up a bunch of things that you did not even begin to address you you you took on the position that most believers do where you defend the belief in the belief without necessarily defending the truth i would have i apologize i would have loved to have addressed those five things that you brought or ten things you brought up we we couldn't get past each other in terms of the uh the back and forth interruption but honestly that's why i ended up actually giving you a big compliment saying that your points were the best ones in terms of the most exciting for me to talk about that i've ever received and don't worry i'll save them my word document we'll get to them at some point in the future oh yeah i'm sure this isn't the last time we've seen uh stewart and r and raw on modern day debate because we always have a ton of fun when you guys are on and this is my first time hosting you guys and i'm having i i'm trying not to use colorful language i'm having a crud ton of fun with you fellas so uh let's continue on with the super chats pointless poppy 499 stewart why did no one keep track of the names of the 500 people jesus supposedly oh i lost it there did you just say supposedly supposed to get out of it doesn't say just calm down why did no one keep track of the names of the 500 people jesus supposedly appeared to that can haunt me it was the word was supposedly was not in there no i so so the 500 that is an interesting one but just because there are some out of all the others that were mentioned who aren't named specifically doesn't make that a horrendous deal i mean when paul talks about some of them have fallen asleep many scholars would say that gives people an understanding that they would have known who to have gone to and they wouldn't be going to those who had fallen asleep because that means that they were dead so there would have been knowledge in the community just like you know when you get footnotes like simon of sireen or malchus for example or in luke 24 rodo ms and one's name and the other's not named yes it can be frustrating because there's so many footnotes throughout the gospels showing again to their credibility but with the 500 there's not a clear simon of sireen for example and yet you do have some have fallen asleep some have not so there would most likely have been some type of consensus understanding of who had not fallen asleep and who they really were all right well that goes back to what i was saying before about it would jesus says that you won't taste of death and that you'll still be alive and in the original version that there's not a soul that comes out of you it's that your physical body will rise again and so that's that's why they say you know that that that these several undead saints walking around doing the thriller in downtown judia that's that's the kind of resurrection that they were talking about actually you know what what jesus was pretending to do with people you'll bring them back to life so they get up and walk around again but the jews had no understanding of the type of resurrection that actually occurred they never because they believed in sheol they never would have accepted that right because they believed in sheol so they would have accepted what what jesus was talking about where you get up and walk around again not the the whole new idea about you that you have this invisible soul inside you that then floats up into heaven that was a different idea that's where the the christians took this a lot of the christianity of course was based on judaism and judaism was based largely on zoroastrianism but this one aspect the christians got reached back past judaism to take this other aspect from zoroastrianism that the jews didn't adopt and that was the notion of this posthumous judgment where in the the avestas i think it's the zen divesta or the hadnak nast where it says that the righteous man upon his death will rise to the kingdom of justice and truth under the wise lord ahura mazda but the wicked man upon his death will descend into the kingdom of the lie ruled by araman the opposer which is the the opposer meaning the enemy also pronounced hashatan which was the satan all right let's close that one out uh thoughts on that steward to close this out 10 seconds about no yeah i just think it's another piece of evidence for the resurrection of christ that the resurrection itself would have been totally rejected by anybody and nobody would have thought up of it that would have been the last type of hoax that somebody would have thought up of and that it occurred so many many scholars that's exactly what the jews would have expected no that's what modern modern jews and christians wouldn't have thought that because they have a different interpretation that involves a soul the sadducees would never have expected it that's exactly what they would have expected because they were they thought it would have been in general at the end of time and the christ no no that's because jewish script because jesus failed to meet any of the criteria that the jews predicted for their messiah so that they were expecting a world leader that was going to you know that that was never going to die and that was going to you know raise israel to that this world power and everything all these things that never happened so jesus failed all the he actually met one the only criteria that he met for for being the jewish messiah was that he was jewish yeah so bar coca and about there were about 20 failed messiah movements none of them would have had anything to do with a single messiah having died and there was bloody death imagined one across and having risen from the dead all right well let's move on to our next super chat everybody uh it seems we've got our ideas out on that one thanks for your super chat there for this poppy for stewart uh el orant 499 i am a muslim from transsoxy transoxana is so trans sox ania i've never heard of muslim from transsexual transylvania from transsexual you know uh the live chat might not believe this but i i have a full frankenferter outfit um for the people who know what that is yeah i played frankenferter for a while oh well isn't that glorious how do i anyways say them to all question for atheists where do you get your ethics from is it coming from empirical evidence our ethics as i explained earlier came from our evolution as a social species so we depend upon society to survive because no man is an island if you're familiar with that term society as an abstract concept in turn depends on us to cohabitate productively now those who cannot those who will will only meet their own selfish ends so those who have no compassion for other people tend as i explained before tend to be eliminated from society so that we as a course of population mechanics over many generations we identify the people who stand by their word who are reliable and who do for the community and those are the ones that are rewarded with the most wives and children whereas the people who only serve their own selfish needs at least in stone age cultures will eventually be eliminated from society at some point of course you get into super technological things and then we we seem to have a turnaround where for whatever reason here recently if you're all about yourself completely narcissistic only brag about yourself don't give a fuck about anybody else piss on everybody else well then everybody else will worship you but that i hope has only been something that's been going on in the last say decade or so already like why is that really bad why is what really bad the narcissism why is narcissism why is only caring about yourself selfishly to the to the disdain of everyone else to the detriment of society as a whole why is that bad yeah does that not answer the question already no i just again if you can get away with it it doesn't really harm society but it does for the reasons i just explained but yeah but does it harm the society that much yeah it hard it's harm society that much yes you are you are taking advantage of every you are impoverishing everyone to enrich yourself this is harming society exactly that much me cheating on exam is that really harming society when you take a single example by itself then we're not talking about population mechanics over many generations are we we're looking at a big picture here oh so the problem i have with one of the many problems i have with arguing with creationists they were christians is that they always want to bring up this one isolated example and say what's the harm in a little white lie they're always looking for they're always looking for the permission for the one evil stupid antisocial thing what's so wrong about this one thing that i do that's bad well because when you count it up over time these become worse but they don't think like that well that's like when an atheist tries to interpret a bible verse one at a time correctly inevitably all right well let's move on from there and uh all around uh all around is actually uh he's got another super chat we'll get over to it because uh i think he's just a little brought down because when we when you know he thought we will the candy man that's right all right before we get a super a super strike on the channel here uh we'll get over to your other question there a la ronde uh but i'm glad that it spurred uh spurred all our frankenfurter so what to get said uh usual on the channel asks aron is there an objective moral standard if yes if yes all right intend required to establish that order if no how can you invoke moral high ground over god so he's saying that if you have if you've answered yes isn't and i did earlier in the show yeah so isn't intent required to establish that order i think is the crux i said in order to determine whether something is moral or immoral you have to have criteria right we all we have to have a universal agreement on what the criteria are and i think we have that where everybody understands that if i were just walk to walk down to the bus stop and kick somebody in the shins for no damn reason that's going to be immoral i don't have a need to cause somebody else harm or suffering right i'm just just visiting pain upon somebody else that's objectively understood to be immoral everybody gets that nobody's ambiguous about that so i think we have an objective moral standard on on on what how do whether we're whether we're causing unnecessary harm or suffering or whether we're uh you know prolonging happiness well-being or health wait but these are moral or immoral and they're objective everybody gets it and the the argument that i hear all the time is well what what about some whole society that's been taken over by evil people who then use political propaganda to their ends to try to justify their evil well if they didn't know that it was objectively evil then they wouldn't be coming up with the propaganda bullshit lies to try to cover it up or to make excuses for it so that's how we know that even they know that it's objectively evil what they're doing thoughts over there stewart nope i like it okay all right uh does that mean we're in agreement is that is that another hazzah kind of moment yeah i at some point i want to i want to share another another area of agreement i have with aran this agreement is so in the greek jesus does talk about those who are touched by the moon so it's not him exercising demons at all times he did understand he was ahead of his time understanding what mental health was but typically it was exercising demons so you take that he did have a nuanced understanding the book of proverbs has a phenomenally understood mixed understanding that's nuanced that's why the bible is the best psychology book really ever written that's a that's a book i'm i'm writing right now don't say stupid shit while you're trying to oh here's where i'm well here's what you're gonna like here's what you're gonna like i agree with aran on his characterization or a truth it's truth on what he says about a lot of religious people religious christians q will who get half baked christianity kind of more the fundamentalist types some of the snake handlers and so here's where it gets person you say about snake handlers what's that what are you saying about snake handlers and don't you do it for your points where where are the snakes aran like i was hoping to see one they're behind me they're all over i've got like 53 of them back there i was hoping to see one wrapped around your uh your your your frame yeah i was gonna grab my retic but he's he's in a bit of a mood it's it's a it's a little inspiration for your genesis 315 uh paper two yeah true so anyway what i was gonna say where i agree with aran is i have a lot of holy discontent towards a lot of those religious types who totally misinterpret scripture who make the body whether they elevate the body too much or say the body is nothing it's just still all about the soul i'll give one example my grandpa was very high up in the seventh day adventist church and he got depression and even had a little probably it was paranoia but maybe even a little psychosis at one point where he saw kind of men in suits coming after him on the property and he was really really like internationally high up on on the seventh day adventist podium podium and so a lot of people came to him was like whoa you're way too spiritual you're way too spiritual to take any medication or get therapy you know you're our you're our man not not god but you're our man and so he didn't for the longest time and he almost committed suicide finally he got on medication and boom everything was fine great went back to his work so there are a lot of those religious types out there and i think a lot of it has to do with their own ego religiosity type as well as misinterpretation of scripture and so i have as much anger when i deal with those kinds of people who takes a lot to hold back i tell you that much more so than probably any other group of people so my testimony well let's try to carry on there because we do have quite a few more super chats coming in and i had a figuring that this was going to go a little over time so i am i am apologetic to any of our speakers but like i said earlier you know it's up to you guys if you want a riff and kind of dig into each other's beliefs uh you know i'm all for it but you guys uh if you want to cap it where you want oh there arman is grabbing i think something exciting potentially oh i see a little pretty something oh there's a little rattler on the back there no i wouldn't imagine this is a doomer rolls boa ooh very this would be a very good choice for your kids they're slow moving they're beautiful they get to be five or six feet long sometimes up to eight but they're manageable and i like to refer to these see these uh masks along the side these little tiki masks they're beautiful i refer to these as the souls of the damned oh very are you in a dnd at all there are i'm a big dnd well of course okay well that's great all right i just had what kind of what kind of snake do you think was in the garden there wasn't one in the garden oh oh jeez i don't i don't mean to offend but let's just say if there was what would you think what kind would it be well it's a nonsense question let's move on fellas i i don't think we'll come into uh into a moment of agreement here but that that is a beautiful snake you have there are i didn't think i would say that live i would recommend this one pattern right there i didn't think i'd be complimenting you on your beautiful snake there are in on a live stream but that's what i'm doing here and it's a beautiful snake you got there uh ultra for two dollars says to be honest are in raw i love you but you do look like a villain uh oh look at that smile he he he he's he's a charmer is what he is fellas everybody here is is a good fella i i i've been super enjoying uh your guy's energy tonight so this is a dirty rotten sinners too ryan at those hands of an angry god steven sell for 20 dollars trying to throw me off stewart and then arans woman that snake stewart saw for 20 dollars aran raw you should just ask for proof of any of the biblical claims you and i both know it doesn't exist don't both know it doesn't exist and for claiming modern standards should not apply to the bible then the bible is no longer applicable i think steven you spent 20 dollars and it sounds like he agrees with you you should just ask for proof of any of the bible claims somebody in your chat made mentioned something about hogwarts i have to tell you that when i was 12 i remember wondering what kind of an old man will i be and i looked at the the old skinny little guy bald guy with a with a cane i'm like is that the kind of old man i'm gonna be then i see this jolly fat santa claus looking guy is that the kind of old man i'm gonna be and then i saw gandalf oh yes you shall pass yeah aran raw you pass that's fine you know what you you you can be you can be a gandalf on the stream that's great honestly that's that's a great reference for inspiration because i i love those movies and uh yeah a quick shout out to my buddy josh we were actually watching those movies just before he moved out and the amount of quotes that were flying out of me after i watched that on this live stream i think was driving everybody nuts you know i do not remember this place or i have no memory of this place all right so her bands 499 uh hey ryan james could we have a trinitarian slash non-trinitarian kirsten debate in the future well uh as you all look at the snake there on screen i'll answer that question you know we do sometimes temp the waters of having debates between two people of the same belief system but generally what we want to do is have people that are more opposing in their views so that you guys actually get into more of a nuanced discussion about the differences between these guys and their world views on the way that they you know assess information so it is something that we do talk about but you know i even when i was vetting earlier for you know some speakers on astrology you know i was talking to them and i was saying you know i they said that you know those there's other classifications of astrology i might not represent everybody and it's kind of like that's fine because the main point is that we're having that discussion you know what i mean so it just just the same here you know we want to make sure that we're keeping it open and honest and true let's carry on el orant 499 aron dude you are a good person disregard haters howland paradise is revealed as classic conditioning for motivational purposes god can forgive well that i wish i could say that i heard that whole question something about god can forgive no he can't because he doesn't exist you kind of have to exist in order to do stuff um what what was the rest of it i don't know i didn't hear it yeah um i think that was he said howland paradise are revealed as classical conditioning for motivational purposes okay all right i didn't largely lifted from don't taste inferno yeah all around i'm sorry that there's not a lot of like question there as far as like i mean maybe steward has some thoughts there you're making a little bit of a a brow what's going on buddy oh no i think i have a tick on the back of my head i was a little concerned well that's a little bit different a tick on the back of your head that's a bit concerning so yeah that's a different yeah so we're big capital of the world here in fairfield county we actually have a town next to us called line that's not good that's not good my friend i have a friend who moved here who's making a lot of money with that there's a new machine out there to treat Lyme's disease oh man it's like living next to garner herpes syphilade city yeah it's bad all right so uh that that's that's all of them all one garner gonorrhea herpes syphilade yeah anyways i garner herpes syphilade yeah yeah yeah that's what happens if you get bit by a squirrel uh no it's a joke uh el oron can i remember this girl i dated in high school don aria oh no okay let's carry on everybody don aria oh my god well hopefully she didn't make your uh your your down your downstairs too excited because uh anyways it could have been a mistake el oron 499 carl marx said religion is opium of masses but these days opium became religion of masses muslims are not becoming christian steward are you smoking now i don't know what kind of question that is steward are you smoking i that's kind of rude i mean who who smokes especially there actually are some some some muslims becoming christian but also it's the other way around and i think actually it's worse for christians becoming muslim because i think the reason why that is is because islam has less baggage than christianity does oh the the fastest growing church last year was in iran and it was women because they were tired of all the sexism i couldn't believe when i heard that it's like how how is the fastest you know how i feel with so am i smoking something um i haven't smoked anything for a while i was just on yourself steward funny though it is coming up because because i was just on a uh a podcast um i was just on a podcast where that was the number one question or is it wrong to smoke weed as a christian and we came to the inclusion you know a few puffs is not as bad as three glasses of wine so it's not a sin if it's it's a certain amount of thc in your bloodstream but i have not been smoking as of late though i am lucid for the most part thank you to the holy spirit and for me this by the way for me for me it's gonna be a a matter of if they're referencing the dmt studies that was actually a it's a matter it's a matter of i'll send the studies but the studies were impressive they were also on joe they were shown on joe rogan and a few eyewitnesses on uh who talked about it on on joe rogan as well so why would you say they were impressive and then say they were shown on joe rogan you're trying to discredit your own argument you gotta get my boy joe you're too conservative he's an eight well he's kind of an atheist he believes jesus was a mushroom and that moses was tripping on you not and coming from the bush not compare me or associate me with joe rogan all right well let's move through the q and a there fellas because you know we we're only on almost we're about a quarter through the way here and uh you know i don't mind you guys expounding as much as you want to but uh you know i don't want you guys to be like oh crud it's you know three hours i gotta go now right and we haven't gotten through so like i said um let's try to move through um and you guys kind of dictate on your own where you want to draw your lines uh but uh i'll try to push it which it gets it 499 aron how do you account for the 25 000 accounts of our out-of-body near-death experiences many of which have been empirically validated okay how do i account for 50 years worth of research we're in there are very very few accounts that are that don't have clear explanations and and and where we have to compare christians having like common christian experience and then atheists long-term atheists at least having you're expected no experience at all and then most importantly when hindus have near-death experience and then they get to meet their gods and then they come back with proof of reincarnation which is effectively proof that christianity is not true so wits it gets it and i don't think you do how do you respond to hindus having this different experience that disproves christianity from near-death experiences i think so i think it'd be a broader if it's a broader question to gods so whether that's hindus gods or the you know monotheistic religions well that hindus consider themselves a monotheistic religion i know they got a butload of gods but i mean look at lord christian for example he says he's the source of all the demigods and the creator of the multiverse which is a pretty hellish statement to have made 400 years before the bible yeah no that that is that i don't know how that discredits the bible but i would say because there's many pagan myths that that sound very similar but there's no historical accountability to it multiverse i think i think the piece there is there's 400 million accounts of the miraculous just in asia and across i think the studies in europe alone you know there's so many people if you if you listen to aran there's so many people who need to be dissuaged of this type of golden age bronze aged mentality or these experiences that people are stuck in whether it's because of things like drugs or not but i find it interesting 400 million from miraculous i think it's 40 million now for near-death and then 500 peer reviewed articles out of duke on the near-death experiences so i don't know whether they're all they're definitely not all true but i think they're to be accounted for there in terms of what exactly is going on just like with the disciples and the resurrection was some can we have any that are true can we tell us there there secular scholars agree that the disciples had some type of experience with christ we just don't know what it was i would even i would agree that that they have they met some faith healer cult leader the self-professed exorcist and performing the exact same shtick that name hair color same same tippa bobby tilton and uh kenneth and gloria copeland and and all of those benny hyen all those kind of people he's just the first century version of that and if people are this credulous now in the age of enlightenment can you imagine how gullible they were in the first century or how gullible they're going to be in 100 years from now it is a sad thing that we seem to be going backwards and i'm still debating people like yourself well let's try to move on from there everybody and unless you had anything to say there as steward uh elebron has a 499 a question aron muslim declaration of faith starts with there is no god and continues why do you think that is there is no god but a law and then i have a t-shirt to this effect that says there is no god but a law just kidding there is no god all right well let's move on from there all around again says and you can buy that t-shirt on evolve fish dot com awesome yeah and at the end of our closing statements will definitely give you guys a chance to uh tell us where we can find you with the links that we're going to have pinned in our descriptions all around for 499 again this is for you aran i think you can hear me yeah he's there aran a muslim here john lock saved western civilization from eugenics he was a follower of jesus he based his ethics on abrahamic tradition well then he then he was his own enemy because where was eugenics coming from at that time i don't know where was it coming from it was disproportionate breeding that was established by the church the church was the one that was practicing eugenics all right i i i might have some insight here people but i did want to just kind of pry there as a an innocent in a lock with her so marty come as yellow for five dollars steward why are you so anti lgbtq isn't that the opposite of being compassionate when did i say that i never said that i i think that christianity paved the way for movements like lgbtq to have the level of freedom that they have or or go to the me too movement for example you know oh yes christianity with their action the roman empire yeah with it with their uh support of leviticus yeah with their with their support of leviticus 18 with christ with jesus never saying ever once hey you remember what it says in leviticus 18 ignore that no jesus never did that jesus always only ever extolled the lack of virtue that we find in the hebrew bible isn't that sad all right so at second state university i found somebody who hates jesus more than r and does i don't hate jesus i hate injustice we were there and injustice includes lies and jesus is a lie i i i found somebody when i was there it was a boy transitioning to be a girl and she kept running in front of great dialogue we had big days out there with like 400 students out there at a time tsc was going on fire and uh she kept interrupting the debates yelling go to our website ipistonjesus.com and sure enough big website i don't know how many fans selling merchandise i mean i i just you can't make this stuff up yeah i gotta i gotta comment somebody mentioned in the comments about what i just said about how how gullible people were 2 000 years ago and the commenter said that we're actually worse now and i kind of agree because i read uh vincent buckeliosi's helter skelter he was the prosecuting attorney of the manson family i have actually physically met the manson family three times as a child because we lived in los angeles and i i read the book uh in urnist and i i kind of get it the people that were hanging out with manson that thought that he could actually make their bus fly that he was able to convince them of these these miraculous things that he could do in the age of enlightenment in the 1960s all you need is a little bit of lsd and you could believe anything i'm i was surprised vincent buckeliosi complained that it was difficult to find anybody to would testify against manson because they all believed that he could read their minds and that he could do all of these miraculous things and so it would it would disqualify their credibility as witnesses which is interesting because shit that that you have to say now in order to get elected to public office would have in the 60s gotten you disqualified as a witness in a murder trial but it it does speak to how we can believe ridiculous shit in the 21st century that and just laugh at the fact that they would have believed it in the first oh the amount of conspiracy theories there hasn't been any more ever in our history than there is today agreed so i will just carry we'll just close it off there fellas um so uh steward you know you referred to uh you know somebody you knew who's transitioning as a she so i think that answer is the question uh that you're not anti lgbtq if that's what i got out of that or no i i've had friends in my wedding in my wedding party who are gay who are some of my closest friends and you know i was asked okay i'm gonna go ahead and say this because it's 1030 and maybe some people got off so i can i can get a little bit more edgy but i was asked by a uh a girl who was marrying a close friend and she said oh you can't love people steward who are lgbtq because you know your your bible is hateful and you hate them because they say they're bad people and go into hell and this that the other i i said that's ridiculous i i think that just because you perhaps don't think that somebody's lifestyle is the most flourishing for them just because you disagree with that or want to help them in that area in no way does that mean that you're less loving towards them just like if my child the one that is living in a lifestyle who i think is not most helpful for their flourishing doesn't mean i'm gonna love them less i'm gonna probably love them more than the child who i think is living this lifestyle that perhaps is helping them really flourish so i know to many people that sounds exclusive and what the bible teaches but in no way does that i mean if anything it increases it should increase love for the christian and not a type of patronizing kind of love i mean like legitimate genuine love so so she understood that she she she's a really sharp woman and she got it so well hopefully that clears that up for you there marty uh you know i think steward's a good guy arin's a great guy you know we're maybe i'm a good guy too i mean you know nothing about me that's careful now right uh no be careful because nobody in your chat thinks anything nice well yeah that's that's all right for them your chat is reddit my chat is reddit well you guys calm down over there and you behave yourselves because i am a nice guy steward's a nice guy arin's a nice guy and uh we don't really care for uh people that are just trolling or being general a-holes uh so let's continue on uh question oh so yeah uh exit dissolve two dollars steward how many eyewitnesses accounts of the jesus raised oh sorry how many eyewitnesses accounts of raised jesus in new testament of raised jesus nine all right i think that is the uh the answer there for the new testament so uh let's carry on and uh i think if i had a question for sure i know i know that he won't answer it because he can't he can't answer it even if he knew the answer he couldn't answer it but i want to know why he believes this and it would take an awful lot of self reflection for him to come up with that and i don't think he's capable of that right now not an insult i i sincerely don't think that you would be able to evaluate everything that i'm thinking about right now to come up with why you believe what you believe because i tried i just couldn't i had to walk away from all that shit well maybe that's something we could even debate about down the road but uh you know a story if you have any thoughts on that you know and you know in the next 10 seconds and we'll move on when you're two when you guys when your audio goes on just isn't speaking over me every time because because i feel like i'm uh bottom of the totem pole here i yeah unfortunately i think because we have mics and preamps and you know i've got all these guitars and rock gear and all that stuff you know i can really drive my voice if i want to so i won't do that well i so i would no i i think it's a very good question for me there's no proof there's no proof if i came to this with proof it would be a different question for me i do i would lean on pascal a little bit as my own response i know i know you don't like that because i'm bringing something i don't like it it's just it's stupid well here's pascal i'm not saying pascal's wager like his wager is dumb and it's kind of i think it's a fear base too i like what he said and i can't remember the piss say that he said it in but you know when he talks about the attractiveness of the gospel and there's no way you would ever even consider trusting in god very believing in him if the gospel is not attractive to you first and so i think for me it's a matter of i i think there's just enough evidence to lead then to my experience and my belief and all the benefits that come from belief like there's endless amounts of like my thesis was on positive psychology and the belief in god endless amounts like atheism i like endless as in zero what not like like as in as a non-starter as in like there's no benefit to to pretending things that are obviously not true no no there no there's benefits that's not what i said there's benefits to pretending things that are not true sure i wouldn't do that i i think i think the placebo effect absolutely has a a serious effect on say for example you know medical drugs but i gotta say in all my arguments i've been doing this for like 25 years and it's funny to me how every discussion with a creationist always or with a christian always always brings up one that the the near-death experience is as if that means anything and then justification for the placebo effect no no i so i did neither of those you you just did the placebo and i well then i communicated poorly i gave you a couple ideas there once so for me it's more a matter of i don't have proof and yet i don't think your end has any level of proof either wait wait i i have to prove i don't believe you i don't think you're gonna say this is reality and that's it okay i don't but i but that's not my position that's you argued for materialism which again is both of us accepting that there's a material reality you assume that there's a magical reality which you cannot justify and i do not assume the thing that you cannot substantiate okay but what are you substantiating when it comes to material reality we both accept i don't make assumptions outside of that and nothing beyond like love meaning purpose love is not at beyond that love is chemical i'm just not part of that 30 seconds there fellas so well so more speaking personally i think there is enough evidence like i i almost ditched my faith when i was a sophomore in college like look i'm a pastor's kid the statistically 75 percent lose their faith so i'm one of the 25 percent okay so i don't know why but but you think love is outside of physical universe yes i think there's there's more to love than just chemicals there isn't than just the evolutionary you are assuming what is not evidenced no these things okay so you just said that love was outside of the physical universe there is no evidence of that you assumed that and said that that's what you believe but there's no evidence to imply that so you are stepping outside of the evidence to imagine something outside of this universe no no no okay let's start all over again and let's see how you wrap yourself up again all right well um if you guys want to delve down that path again that's fine it is just a little funny that uh james had messaged me and he was like hey try to you know make sure that you get these fellas out you know around two hours and try to respect their time but uh i messaged him back and i was like i worried them that if they kept riffing we were going to keep going and i just messaged him now and i was like we're a quarter of the super chats through and the they're still riffing uh so you know this is this is up to you fellas if you want to go down that path but we can keep going it's it's i i have other shit that i need to be doing right now but fine fuck it we'll just do this wait are you at 9 30 you yeah you're 9 30 aren't you i'm at 9 30 i've been working on another project for like five days a video that i thought was going to be recorded four days ago but it's taking me longer than i expected eat that i feel i feel yeah i was i i've been doing two days of jammin and we've been working on space trucking by d purple and i've just been screaming my head off so i'm surprised i even have a voice to even speak with uh are you doing ian gillian yeah yeah i am i'll tell you i won't do it right now because i i can't i can't get just the levels to make sure that's going to be cool uh but i will close it off with a cool song ele ront and uh he's coming in for 499 question aron is 2 plus 2 equals 4 falsifiable what do you think i don't do math i like to stay in my lane and i've talked to mathematicians who say that 2 plus 2 can equal 5 depending on certain values of 2 and i'm like the fuck are you even talking about i think that might be over most people's heads here i mean i was taught 2 plus 2 equals 2 and you know as as stewart mentioned earlier about drugs like you know if if your drug dealer was like 2 plus 2 equals 5 that's fine all right yeah and that's why i that's why i started to embrace the thing about when you say that you're gonna prove something you can't prove it mathematically this is why science doesn't prove anything mathematically the best that you can do is in a different context you can prove by an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond reasonable doubt that i can do and so when people tell me you know that evolution's not a thing i can absolutely prove by an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond reasonable doubt that evolution is real and a thing and that creationism is nothing but frauds falsehoods and fallacies with no truth to it period end of statement i can absolutely prove both of those things the sad thing is people want to make believe so badly they don't care they will tell me straight to my face they don't care what the truth is they're going to believe it anyway well this next question is coming in for stewart and so this is from Stephanie McGuire for five dollars stewart why does the Old Testament god that abores human sacrifice except his chosen people to accept human sacrifice as the ultimate atonement for sin yeah there were a lot of those different types of pagan cults there was molluck there was all different types where you know you had all these store-pain you know historical inventions but also the no historically accurate you have molluck and parents have to bring their babies and put on the molten hot lava hands when they would heat up the statue of molluck and then the parents we have to get taken out of the city as the screams of the babies were so intense so yes they would sacrifice for sins or just sacrifice in general to their gods but in no way does that disprove the christian god your your the people that you have in your chat are so very fortunate that they will never have an opportunity to face me in a situation where they will have to be accountable i i sometimes feel similarly you know i see some of the because they just say a whole bunch of shit that i could prove wrong in a moment and it's just there's too many of them to even list and i'm not going to name them because then they'll just all be spouting that shit but it looks like because i did this an hour or two ago it just looked like everybody hey let's say the stupidest thing we can in the chat well hopefully we have a few of our mods in the chat because i can't keep an eye on all of it and also if you have a few mods working in this chat then you have a fuckton of idiots boasting here jumping in my discord right now anyways no i yeah hopefully uh hopefully you guys are working a little bit in the super chats there and uh going through our live feed but once again keep it friendly everybody and uh once again it's no skin off our back so uh this is another one for stewart anybody that anybody that's in the chat that wants to say that you know because there are a lot of people i'm noticing this that that say that i can't prove evidence to shut up yes i absolutely can there's a trick to it though you have to be able to communicate in a socratic interaction now i can do it in as little as has a couple dozen mutual exchanges but when i have to correct the misinformation that you have and then establish the basics and i have to confirm that you understand the basics before we move on to the next level that means that when i ask you questions you have to answer them and my experience over the last 25 years that i've been doing this is that believers habitually refuse to answer direct questions because they want to believe more than to know the truth that's the problem so they won't answer at all i think it would be interesting to maybe even see that breakdown you know even just for even if we had a devil's advocate to see how that breakdown of that interaction happens but let's move on here whoa whoa whoa whoa technically arin is not allowed to do that whatsoever i like arin and i like listening to him so i allow him to do that no other atheist or anybody debating this this shows how much i like arin would i ever allow to do that i would push ryan right out of his seat until he actually stopped and said equal time here but i enjoy listening to arin so i let him get a you know i let him push and go and i like that he actually asked me questions here at the end i do appreciate that that it was that was personal but i can't get my points off about the resurrection or reliability of the gospels i'm going to interrupt i'm sorry about that no i don't mean to interrupt interrupting you right now i just meant like as a separate idea right that's the thing oh no no but we're not talking about the resurrection about we're talking about evolution we're talking about things that are real that's fantastic wait what so let's uh let's go back to the superjads uh this was for you steward so i mean we should really be asking you the question we just got into a different uh different direction there steward um yeah that was the one about atonement for sin steward i don't believe you are for real in your belief i don't know if i like that one so much can you prove you actually believe the bible and practice your religion oh is this a ad hominem if you will hear i think they're asking if you're a devil's advocate you know are you a legit steward i know i keep making it sound like i'm a i'm a proficient author and writer but i considered titling a book in the future one step away from atheism because i've had so many people say to me whoa you're like inches from atheism yeah my you had a couple i've i've even had a couple guys i've had a couple guys come on uh different podcasts and say yeah i am here to convert you to atheism so i guess there's a lot of people nobody nobody says that oh they said that they said nobody says i'm going to convert you to atheism yeah nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about so no i don't know how do you convert to non belief well you you know what they were saying converting out of mind into something else whatever it might be but they don't then when they wouldn't say convert to atheism that's stupid if somebody says that they're going to convert you to atheism then they don't even know their own argument well uh let's carry on from there i think steward's made his point aron has made his point so let's carry on fitur fetus for five dollars does aron believe that the beasts of daniel seven are to be taken literally daniel was largely dreams so i don't take any of that literally i mean most a whole lot of the bible was fucking beat i don't know whether it was just dreams or it was drug induced dreams or dreams inspired by stupidity i don't know but there's a whole lot of it that was just dreams and therefore it doesn't have any validity at all if i wrote down all the fucking dreams that i've had that i thought meant something to me and that i wrote them down in a book for other people to interpret as if it should have the same meaning for them they'd be awfully confusing but that's how the bible is written this is it was written by mystics it was written by people who thought that dreams were god's way of communicating with people which means that god is inept all right well for the sake of time everybody and uh you know to everybody hit the like button what are you doing we got still over a thousand people watching this and only 500 likes hit that like button if you enjoy what you're hearing here tonight i think we've got two very amicable speakers on our side here and uh good representative uh representative sides of uh our arguments i'll give you i'll give you a credit for that stewart i will because modern day debate has pitted me up against some real idiots i think i think you guys are both swell fellas uh a lot of fun uh i'm not going to talk about any of the uh of the other people i'm not going to name any names but this has been a great game yeah i i don't know what to say fellas uh we'll carry on and what i'm going to do is i'm going to set a one-minute timer and i'm going to try to keep the questions towards you know the people that they're asked to so good day to you sir for twenty dollars canadian whole canada thank you for your twenty dollars canadian two correct stewart jesus and mark 16 18 uh should i do my preacher voice i think i should let's just let's just pick up snakes a lot of questions showing up at the chat but i'm guessing they don't you don't read them unless they pay something there's a lot of questions but yeah we're going to read just a super chat because there's a ton of them still and uh i got a quote here from mark 16 18 and i'm ready to rip do we have how many of these do we have to ask how many of these questions we have to get to all kinds but uh you know we'll we'll tear through them like i said i'm going to set a one-minute timer let's go it's 1046 what time we go until i'm at 1146 so like yeah well where are you dare you i'm in novaskosha so like you know she's about to see that my my launch into this whole thing and uh you know kind of my kick in the butt was actually running into shannon q and polo gia uh and on there are you on this show on their anniversary and they paid for me and my wife's drinks uh you know it was very kind of them and i i super enjoyed sitting down and chatting with them i thought they were uh really cool for doing that i really i really enjoy uh paul and shannon q just fantastic really for a number of reasons so i just i just wanted to get that on you know i don't that i said that i guess no i like it yeah they kicked me in the butt they messaged jimmy and they you know they were like hey you know uh you know ryan's trying to get a hold of you and then that kind of got me kind of thinking well i i should see what happened with my email that i sent to james because he never responded to me and i checked my junk email and i was like he responded to me within a week of me sending him an email saying hey i think i want to help you out here um and it was in my junk email and i missed it completely so uh you know i would have been on here a lot sooner and figuring out uh how to actually be good at this a lot sooner had uh great about 10 minutes let's go let's rule uh good day to you sir i think you're running out of steward's patience sorry sir to correct steward all right sorry i it's all good they will pick up the snakes with the hands and then they will drink deadly poison it will not hurt them at all they will place the hands on sick people and they will get well that is my preacher voice so he is quoting from mark mark 1618 saying that they did uh in the new testament i think mark is from uh preach about uh being able to handle deadly snakes uh thoughts on that or want to carry on uh carry on mark 16 isn't maybe not even in the bible all right thank you fortitude balance of 499 euro if god really wrote the bible and it is his word why is there a big universe beyond our world if there was life on mars he should have said so yeah there's probably not there's probably no humans on mars next all righty our ins back they're getting out of their snake but uh yeah we're going to carry on with the super chats everybody and sorry uh if we're being super brief with your super chat but i think we've used the super chats to get into all kinds of nuance uh in these guys thoughts on the individual discussion so arnaz back so yeah you guys were calling for a venomous one so i was going to go grab a venomous one but she's running and hiding she toothless new all right well yeah from six fangs on either side so this one from a la ron again question to steward on which dmt trip did machine elves tell you that thousands of muslims are becoming christians uh a la ron i think that's kind of uh just uh not really worth answering but uh thanks for the 499 we want to carry on and respect these fellows time because we've gotten all kinds of ideas out tonight go back in the debate if you missed anything because uh i think we've really uh expelled uh what we think for tonight frank morning tree 199 aran thanks for fighting for a rational world well thank you frank for your fan super chat we always appreciate a little bit of support for the speakers who are here on their own time that's amazing that uh you would contribute nine five ninety five dollars what do you both think uh kenneth humphrey's idea that not only was jesus mythological but so was paul that both were literally characters i don't believe that paul i don't believe that paul was fictional at all i don't actually believe that jesus was entirely fictional i think that he was largely so and that paul is a big part of that but that he wasn't entirely so and i don't believe that paul was was fictional at all all right and your thoughts there stewart will move on agreed other than i think christus is a specific christ that the christians worshiped all right let's carry on rusty colon for five dollars canadian stewart would uh why would an all powerful supreme being allow vastly different interpretations of his commands that leave to eternal torture and damn nation first of all there's an orthodox faith that 34 percent of christians understand and agree on secondly the ten commandments for example i don't think there's too much misinterpretation around the ten commandments or the sermon on the map oh yeah there is depending on whether are you talking about exodus 20 or exodus 34 okay there is there's some but what what does this guy expect like like what what does he desire he wants all of our brains fixed perfectly to have a perfect exact understanding of every word in the english you know dictionary so no there's going to be different interpretations and understanding but ultimately if you misunderstand what murder means and you kill it's killing instead of murdering her i'm pretty sure that's not going to send you to hell no sin ultimately is going to send you to hell it's a matter of sin of disbelief oh yeah you brought that up earlier all right well let's carry on fellas we got i like it ryan i like it ryan i'm trying to keep you guys going because i like i know you want to carry on their spirit right this is technically venomous just technically i like i like the wristband that's what i'm all after you know but there it is i'm holding a venice for that oh look at that go all right i i picked that week that album up a few weeks ago my buddy before he left elven colander oh yeah man i loved you i love priests i was gonna say i got machine head and then i ordered in unleashed in the east my buddy left me his record player before he moved away to ontario he's actually the rhythm player on all the lovely tracks that everybody hears on modern day debate when i'm hosting because uh i'll use it as a way to promote my music you're you're such an anachronism you're way too young to be into the music you like uh yeah you should see me when i was in grade seven and i was like oh i like buddy holly i made my way into queen i mean my way into queen and every day i would come home and i was 15 and i'd be singing you know another one bites the dust anyways i gotta be careful but uh eventually i got into d.o and rob halford and all them good high screaming vocalists and uh me and my old music teacher we ended up linking back together and we're doing a really cool act right now doing rainbow and d.o and you know heaven and hell and d.o rainbow with d.o as the frontman of course you know a star gazer is my favorite tune so i mean i've been ripping that one and screaming it out but i gotta be good here everybody you're getting me distracted i gotta tell you you're talking you're doing a different show right now you're getting me distracted on the metal my friend all right so uh iron if your snakes could talk what could what would they say i think they would say holy dive el aron for $1.99 steward just stepped out so let's find another one for aron aron you're a good person respect sir from el aron for $1.99 well thank you uh charles lair for $1.99 ryan indeed you are goaded well whatever that means i mean i think that's a good thing um you know i i can scream a good tune that's good i'll put something on for the end of the show um easy walks for $2 how can aron hail to satan and not believe in god because in the satanic temple when you hail satan you you hail yourself because it's about self-empowerment we don't believe in a literal satan so and and very often when you hear people say hail satan listen for a moment longer they'll say hail satan and then say hail by self all right hopefully that answers your question easy walks el aron for $1.99 aron why are you arguing for alt uh altaryan ethics you sorry uh you util utilitarian ethics utilitarian that's well utilitarian sorry i i pronounced it wrong i i had to zoom in here i should be wearing my glasses because i'm older than i appear yeah you're saying that to me me you're barely pubescent compared to me it doesn't matter i have no idea i i i consider myself utilitarian so the ethics of what is required of society would be utilitarian i i don't know what i didn't see the original question i i i would ask the person to paraphrase it if i had that opportunity but i'm given that this is the one time i'm going to hear this question that's the best way i can answer it i'm going to be did i interpret it as pragmatic and i'm i'm a pragmatist so i'm going to interpret it that way all right well let's carry on el aron for $4.99 aron said muslims are leaving islam in west i am non-western born muslim and sometimes they try to even excommunicate me by accusing me of being liberal you know you're making inroads when they accuse you of that yeah but i'm not a liberal i'm a leftist and so people try to accuse me of being a liberal i'm like no no no you need to keep going all right well let's carry on there steward's back thanks steward for coming back aron if you need to take a little washroom break uh grab a drink no i just i just urinated right here in my chair it'll be fine aron's got a bottle everybody that's fine he was a professional he's got a he's got an elegant filtration system hooked up to him right now built into his chair it's fine all right so el aron for $1.99 steward soul is a metaphysical self it's not matter yeah agreed all right okay that was the question i was asking before and as i said when i when i talked to a number of of neuroscientists and neurophilosophers specifically daniel denna and patricia churchland they they go on about and the neuroscientists did as well as six of them i can't remember all their names but they but they all say there's no support at all for mind-body dualism they're just simply flat out is not a soul all right you want to close this out there steward nope nope all right well that's the ending thoughts there uh lord as danis $1.99 how many people does god kill and why so many it's a bit of a loaded question but you guys can address it if you'd like where is the empirical proof that god kills so many people all right well we don't have empirical proof all we have is the mythology exactly we we have estimates you know that that god killed everybody on earth at a given moment it was in 24th century bce so we have to estimate what the population of the planet is minus eight would you have been okay if god killed the nazis before they brutally killed six million jews would i have been okay if god killed bad people instead of killing everybody for no fucking reason are you sure you want to ask me that loaded question every whoa who said everybody is was not bad because that's what you just said everybody but bad and thoughts and behaviors every doe in south america every puppy in north america it doesn't matter god apparently had some issue with a handful of people in the north in the middle east being too noisy so he decided that that the only thing he could do because god doesn't know how to do problem solving he decided the only thing that he could do was to kill everybody everywhere everything everywhere to get rid of these handful of people in the middle east now he could have blinked them all into the corn field he could like other gods have done on the twilight zone he could have done a number of other things but no he went for the most costly ridiculous over the top excessively cruel stupid kind of act that he possibly could why because the people who made up this story experienced a flood in their neighborhood and decided to blame it on the gods well i believe in the local flood so i don't i don't agree with okay so you believe in the flood of surepok in 2900 bce let's let's do it isn't it where it is for him there you did not answer my question though oh well then we'll pass it back what's your question there stewart now killing nazis illegally it's not the the ones in control in control of the g.o.p now or the ones from a century ago all right let's go on okay all right we'll be getting into the all the jargon imagine of avenue $20 guys let me ask a hypothetical in the internet there's a secretive organization called the csp foundation they hunt down and contain anomalies if it is real if it is reasonable to say it is real given its attributes is it real no strange one there's a strange one i think i read it with the right tone honestly yeah i i people have accused me of of of endorsing verificationism and therefore i'm supposed to belong to some philosophical thing that lost lost popularity in the 19th century but i don't i i do however before i assume that anything is true i want to be able to show that there is some truth to it so to that degree yeah i want to be able to verify before i declare before i buy into something all right well let's move on from there aileron said soul affects your brain and your brain affects your soul i think we've already kind of there is no such thing as a soul yeah i was going to say i think aileron we've touched enough on that subject and kind of figured out where our debaters disagree uh on that i i will admit that i have a soul what i'm listening to really extremely good blues guitar but otherwise no oh we have a hendrix fan look at that that's good stuff too uh a best star 499 when stewart made an excuse for matt 1628 as uh he was talking about events in 70 ad shows he is full of something that is not the holy ghost c verse 27 don't put quotations unless you want my preacher voice what are you doing i don't know there's really a question there stewart it's kind of like a proclamation so i mean you know people who heard that question you can kind of look into that uh saying you're making an excuse for matt 1628 thoughts i don't have verse 27 in front of me all right no problem i'm sure we'll uh we'll get that expounded on some other time i i'm still reading your chats and i'm seeing people that don't know what punctuation means who also think that just making an assertion is establishing in fact oh the people that don't know what punctuation means and then they submit the super chats and i have to read them i'm trying to wonder like what is the flow here what is the flow all right so so we clip that everybody that's that's what i want you to gather from this punctuation very important um let's continue on elorant soul plus brain is why we're here for training um we like i said we've already answered enough questions about the soul elorant so i appreciate your super chat but we want to get these fellas out here at somewhat a decent hour and now we're not doing that as it goes so uh stew from lord stanis for 499 can you read about how the biblical god was developed from a polytheistic to monotheistic this is Yahwehism what are your thoughts on this so it was developed from polytheistic to monotheistic there was no there was there was no stealing from any type of polytheism i don't see any evidence for that and i've heard that once before but there's no evidence that somehow monotheism stole from polytheism and okay so there's the fact that Judaism was originally polytheistic so that fact in evidence is one of the ones that he's regret that he's uh just simply ignoring and then there's the the origin uh that around the the origin of Judaism there was the misopotamian religions there was the permeate the persian religions egyptians and so forth and some of those were toying with monotheism so the persians had a monotheistic religion and the egyptians had a monotheistic religion and so Judaism was being partially influenced by that that's another fact in evidence that uh that steward is overlooking so when he says there is no fact he means that actually that there is multiple facts and evidence he just doesn't know about them yet i took a course on the comparative history of world religions i suggest steward that you do the same i had a wonderful instructor on that and that that seems to make all the difference 10 seconds my my son took the same course that i did with a different instructor after i did and said that the class uh sucked because my son sat through the class with me we had a methodist instructor who had who had a doctorate in theology and had actually personally been to all of these different holy structures across asia and so forth uh but the next guy after him was a southern baptist preacher who had never been outside of the united states and my son said that class just absolutely sucked all right so let's do that was for you so uh i'll give you up to a minute to close us out on that one there without interruption so uh what are your thoughts there um no the judeo it was it was always worshiped the judeo christian god was always worshiped as a monotheistic god now were there influences like aran mentioned in the sense of were there dabbling in in potential ideas of polytheism potentially but no there's no show show me any type of paper anywhere any scholarly ancient document talking about that the jews worshiped many gods at once and i'll okay yeah yeah not not a problem if you visit me an email i'll be able to produce that and in the meantime spider 33 i shouldn't be addressing the people in your chat because they're all fucking idiots calling me an old childless snake man after having raised five kids two of them by myself why are your chat people all such idiots that i have no control over that's kind of one of those kind of youtube things i you know you fellas choose to leave the mark on the planet that you want but uh just just know that uh you know if you're not being constructive well then that's it's a tautology you're being just that so a la ron 199 yes they will become muslim uh ala medillia i'm not sure what we got there jason jones two dollars wrong pew research uh wrong pew research better sorry you did have punctuation i'm not sure what they're referring to there with the pew research being wrong no all right sorry jason we've lost that point uh you know that's coming gone so uh lord de santis uh lord de santis sorry you know what i've been watching too much it's been watching too much political jargon trying to find these political speakers so you know what don't blame me lord stanice dollar 499 stew if your father cliff came to you and said stew god has told me to take you up the hill and sacrifice you what is your reaction to this i'd ask which god did that ever and which book commanded that ever because genesis chapter 22 clearly abraham tells the servants we will be back clearly god will provide so there was never any question of somehow him going to stab his son and call it quits in the relationship all right well let's carry on y'all who again for two dollars canadian he says stew your audio cuts out because of your speakers so yeah if you have speakers in your room uh you know and not in ear monitors it can sometimes uh cut into your microphone when you're trying to speak so that could be it by the way and i'm not getting on arin for this oh there he is we're gonna close hi steward i'm of the portable atheists the atheists who just are atheists because of daddy being mean growing up or or a bumper sticker that they read i a genesis 22 type passage with abraham and isaac like that's what i'm talking about in terms of they haven't done any looking into what that passage is actually about what the meaning is for example like it's coming out of genesis for example so you should be really looking into what the the narrative structure is and what the meaning is but then secondly contextually speaking thirdly the hebrew and this is not me trying to dance at all like i studied this in seminary and it is so clear that in no sense is this an example of child murder so this is a perfect example of what i'm stating when it comes to when arin says just to read the bible and don't be us around it i hate to say it but but this is an example of everybody interprets how are you going to interpret are you going to interpret correctly closest to context or not i don't mean to laugh but the question about you know or the advice about your audio cutting out and the next thing we know we're talking about murder that's what kind of set me off i was like this was about your audio and then it happens everybody we're back on topic that's fine ele ron 499 uh that was already asked actually while you were on break that was for arin um that's for ele ron dollar 99 arin lack of kindness will be your weakest point as kind of now i shouldn't read that sorry that's i'm just kind of reading them as they come in that's not really a question i've been kind you have no idea the amount of patience that i've exhibited for this i think everybody's being good tonight arin is very kind for an atheist all right so you leave him alone for for a human being i love all of you fellas you're great vaughn zoom i love ryan you you calm down don't you pull everybody you you better explain what that means 999 i love watching you guys talk a 999 question for steward why believe in an empty tomb when victims of crucifixion were left to rot or be eaten yeah not in a massive grave with with the stature of a jesus christ figure a common grave would have been for somebody who was completely not known he wouldn't have been tried like jesus was tried so all right or the way that that jocephus describes it which i and i don't add i don't defend anything that robert price says because he and i are politically at ends but i i did read an interesting thing from robert price about uh the interpretation of josephus as compared to luke that there's a point where josephus bar mathias can be interpreted as uh joseph he's by his heber name could be interpreted as joseph of error mathia and the way that bob price puts this it was interesting to read the two captions together and realize that this is the same story being told from two different perspectives i had to be impressed with the way that he drew this extrapolation i'm not saying it's legitimate that it's necessarily valid but it does it did seem to me to be the way he presented his argument and as i said bob price and i i like the guy for a long time he and i are politically at odds but i i did like this one argument that he made about that what were the different angles the way that that uh joseph um joseph bar mathias which would be joseph of error mathia the way that he shows up and he has three friends who were who are on the cross and that he goes to titus rather than uh pilot he goes to titus who was actually the person in charge at that time and he begs to have his free free he has three friends taken down and then two of them live and then one of them died and it just the the the way that he tells the story when you read when you realize when you read josephus through the eyes of bob price and then you read luke it does read as if it's the same scene seen from two sides or you know from either perspective that luke is writing about the same scene as josephus is not joseph of error mathia but joseph is bar mathias all right uh or joseph bar mathias question was for you there stewart so you want to close this out on that thought there i can't remember what it was oh it's all right that's all right uh you know the uh the short term gets a little bit fuzzy when these things get a little bit longer everybody so that's what you get for porn in your superchats like that uh el arant uh dollar 99 the crux of his question is christians aren't evil aran i never said they were evil okay being deceived doesn't mean evil i'm sorry that you believe even a lie and i'd be happy to help you out with that but that's your problem it's not that you're evil it's you're you're deceived i just don't understand why john lennon wasn't right he was right he was atheist yeah when he's exactly when he said in 1966 the time magazine as as the u.s gets more scientific we will see religion go i am certain of it and the opposite happened yeah that is that that is upsetting i can't tell you how much as science has i mean as somebody who grew up in that time period who looked to you know star trek and so forth as like okay we're making advancements we're learning the the errors of our old ways we're learning the new truths you know we're going to get better that's what i thought we were doing and then we elected trump yeah trumpet is one and two chronicles yeah are we talking about where they they they wear the mark of the the mark of the beast on their forehead and it says ma ga i still got a guy wearing a maga hat around town so it's amazing he's like the nicest guy in the world so if anybody ever goes after him they should feel very yeah my mother told me that that trump was still president and i i made her sign a document that if by september of last year if trump is still in mara lago and biden is still in the white house will she admit that her news sources were wrong and she signed that and then i pulled it out in september late late september i pulled that out and like you remember signing this and she said you'll find out eventually okay so you just don't stand by your own word at all yeah and so now she is in a nursing home uh with dementia because that's what leads to that yeah Fox News does all right well let's let's carry on there everybody and sorry to hear that as i pop back in i left on what would seem to be a happy note for me as i was like oh let me go use the washroom right quick john lennon yeah he made some great music and i come back and then you left me and steward alone but you guys you know what i came back and you guys were behaving and that's better than i could ask from my children and some of the other people i've hosted on here when i've had to pop out and use the washroom and i come back and i'm like who's biting who's head off what's going on here vice all right so in defense i wait how many questions are left just a few more we're getting to the wrap up here and i'm gonna need another beer because i can tell because he's that was an hour ago that he said a few more the last yeah honestly well i'm drawing my best it's don't worry ryan it's not my fault it's only 60 percent your fault i i've said 10 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds here fellas 30 seconds there and then like five minutes later you guys have finished up on your point i don't want to cut you off i mean i want you guys to be able to get your ideas out there what yeah what you're thinking uh yeah well you've been talking to school of rock too mister i well i had to do what i had to do you know you are an anachronism there's nobody with a face that should look that young that likes the music that you do that's that's all right i was gonna say yeah anybody who likes likes what i do as far as like the uh the modern day debate you can check me out on facebook i got a group called light and shade we mostly just do like led zeppelin covers and you know i think the last clip i put up was like stairway to heaven or over the hills and far away or some nonsense like that all right so that's really old shit man i i love it though you know i like i like that explosive vocal stuff and it's funny and then you two talk about the uh i am no musician although i like my keith green aron may know who keith green is no neither of you guys know makes me sad how about the brother of hank green he was uh he was john green amy fey's favorite singer did you see amy fey tell me you oh arne you got to watch tammy fey you know it's uh tammy fey tammy fey you know that evangelical leader back to me jim and tammy baker no it's definitely tammy fey is tammy fey baker i used to watch them all the time whenever i wanted to get whenever i really wanted to get pissed off i would watch jim and tammy fey baker bro you gotta watch the movie jack jessica chastain just won the best actress for it last year i can't believe you haven't seen it you gotta let me know what you think of it you're you're gonna love it it's good it was so irritating that i'm watching that this one show where they said is and this was like 1982 and they they they they brought in these the people that used to work for gary gygax and they said is dungeons and dragons a satanic organization and the answer straight up no in matter of fact we've even hired a catholic priest to make sure that nothing that we that we've posted in our publications could possibly be interpreted as satanic and so she grabs the camera tammy fey does and says see dungeons and dragons is willfully a just a satanic organization but that's what evangelicalism is lies that's it that's just lies they had they had bought they had they had um what the fuck the old codger that just died the the one that always always always thinking stupid shit against hating people what what was his name it was a jerry fall while that just passed away was that no no no it was the one after him it was uh oh stanley no but the one where there was there's a lot of memes about it though basically the christian coalition the the the the one that was running the 700 pat robertson that was it i remember the memes yeah the one who told his his 30 000 some odd followers in 1993 or four to go out and kill homosexuals where you find them in order to prevent earthquakes that guy yeah i forgot where i was going with that that's all right we we we launched from music yeah he i saw him on jim and tammy fey's show and he was showing ozzy osborn's speak of the devil and he was talking about how this is all satanic music i'm like ozzy's like spitting great jelly out of his mouth for a for a fucking studio album why do you have to like over dramatize everything because they they have to lie they have to keep people scared in order to keep the donations coming in and that was the foundation for fox news well let's carry on with the superchats their fellas but i think that's a true debate uh that we should have there is uh you know who is the better front man ozzy or d.o i mean illan gillen did that one album with sabbath and so did rob helford but i think d.o and ozzy that's the real debate right there all right in defense you are in anachronism 999 arin you have a terrible hermeneutic we are saved by grace alone by faith alone through christ alone we are called to confess for our sins and repent not by our works and that no one can boast it's a more empty assertions that you can't verify i i wish that i could be like religious people and just like makeup whatever i want to say and then just say it like it's truth and then you know have people give me millions of dollars for having lied to them but unfortunately i have ethics so all right well we'll carry on and i don't mean to i i don't want to sound biased anybody uh is just a matter of uh it's not really a question i wrapped up in what you said they're in defense of the gospel like i said it's more of a proclamation we do want to carry on a la ronde dollar 99 laurence crosses nothing this is quantum potential thoughts on that up to a minute no not even up to a minute we got no thoughts on that nobody's got any thoughts on that i don't think it was even mentioned fellas so charles lanard 499 aron if you want proof of ghosts just try emailing stewart i should have read that one first yeah it's well that's fun charles you know we we enjoy having a little laugh everyone so i'm still seeing some floating turds in your comment section that want to accuse me of lying but of course can never say anything that i've actually lied about you can't show that what i've said was false nor show how i knew it was false when i said it because you can never show that it was false there's a problem if you can't meet criteria one how are you going to make it a problem too well you heard it here you're floating turds that's what aron roth thinks of you uh and your uh your criticisms there uh you know uh check out our speakers they're both going to be linked in our description if you want to hear more from either of them easy walks five dollars how does science measure this and study what they they can't see or prove how does science measure or study what they can't see or prove is it supported is it not if it's not let's talk about what is all right let's carry on nuzzy d a dollar ninety nine why is christianity more true than any other uh so steward any other what i i think they mean bullshit story i think they mean more than any other religion so uh steward i'm going to give you up to uh yeah if you want to expound for 30 seconds why you think christianity is because the grave because the grave of buddha muhammad shirley mclean they're all full but jesus christ grave never had a grave he's surely mclean did no she's a low five yeah and and and jesus never had a grave and wouldn't have had because he would have been he would have been like taught he would have been tossed in with all of the the other that that would just refuse like a big pile of people except for this uh joseph of arithy excuse me uh josephus who then wants to save his friend and so he puts him in his own private tomb only he doesn't apparently get there and there's some problem and then we got a bullshit story about how the disciples later start recognizing random people in the crowd as if they're jesus and the people who don't do people they recognize don't even cop to being jesus what but they recognize him as being jesus anyway this what are you talking about all right fellas i'm trying to bring you guys in on these super chats but you you're riffing you're riffing harder than rock stars i'll tell you uh and you these guys are rock stars so hit that like button and uh yeah and can we just can we just come back to the summary of what would be the point if if christianity was real obviously it isn't but if if christianity was real the whole thing is that we're supposed to believe it doesn't matter what you do it doesn't matter what your morality is it just matters what you believe do you believe the right type or brand of bullshit story for no reason and and and then you're going to go to hell if you don't so you have to violate the first commandment of the jews to believe that jesus is this god in front of god's you're gonna do that you thou shalt have no other gods before me except that know that nobody comes through the father but through me so you have to violate that to believe in jesus and if you don't believe in jesus merciless psychotic fucking torture forever and ever and ever and ever it doesn't matter if you had to go to reason because god is not a righteous judge he just judges not morality but whether you believe and what you believe and and if you didn't it doesn't matter why you didn't i didn't give you evidence god i god i jojoba hid all the evidence from you i gave you only evidence to show that all of christianity is bullshit and so you believed my lie and therefore i'm gonna i'm gonna torture you forever forever and ever and ever that's that was a great life that's christianity i'm gonna annihilate this i don't think it goes on forever let's let's carry on fellas because the longer we riff the more we generate interest in super chats and you guys are like i said the more you carry on the more you're going to keep yourselves here uh because these questions are gonna uh you know create more big solos so el orant crime doesn't have religion cool i think we can carry on abraham tartar for a dollar that's your first super chat thanks for the dollar 999 from mal stewart that was a stupid or stupid a stupid and dishonest jab that you made to assert that the person you mentioned killed themselves because of atheism is it a self-identifying christian has let's be fair he said it wasn't because his worldview is empty he did assert that the worldview was empty and that is wrong that is a lie and but he did say that it wasn't because of that and that was just his take not mine proceed and because atheism is not an empty worldview people in the chat say that they want that i want people to be as empty as i am i am fuller than most of your people in your chat well let's carry on i've always had a rewarding life i wish everybody else could have could have enjoyed life as much as i do i'm 60 years old i'm gonna die at some point relatively soon and it's okay because i had a good run i wish everybody else could say that they can't what if you didn't have a good run that's not okay you just said it's okay because you did have a good run i because i feel good about it yeah so many people don't get about it the majority of people in this world don't feel good about it and i get that i get that and i i want to empathize with that if i had had 60 years of struggle and pain and torture and failure and that's all i've ever experienced i would feel terrible about that i don't know how to relate to anything other than what i've experienced all right i wish that other people could feel as rewarded as i do if i died when i was 20 i would have been happy i mean because i i had a good run then it's just the guys who were dying in the Balkans and they said it's only in the comfort of a white suburban home that we can say that we had a good life a good run and act like everything's fine suburban home i didn't live in a white suburban home until i was 40 let's uh let's carry on there follow on ryan i'm making the last point here since we're all all three of us are dabbling into commentary it's okay i'm um no my point there is back to your earlier personal question about my belief in god that's one of them right there and hey that could be wishful thinking where i'm just wanting everybody to get a fair shake in this life but i think there's going to be a judgment day and i want it very badly how do you how do you not be able to not review how do you not reconcile how unjust that is what's that how do you not reconcile how unjust that is no every single bro hold on here every single stoppage that you have in say the middle east of the cycle of revenge the revenge cycle is when that people group believes that there is a judgment day so that they don't have to get it here on this earth so how do you reconcile how unjust the notion of a judgment day is especially within the myopic and insane confines of the god of abraham but look at the prison system you keep people locked up their entire lives is that i don't advocate that all right let's try to move on there from uh from there guys i don't i don't think that's effective because it's it there's nothing about rehabilitation or forgiveness and you know i'm about those both of them so i i've been tchaikovsky for five dollars thank you are and for helping me finally realize the lies of christianity uh thanks for the compliment there i've been uh for the thanks uh any idea if you and gutsy gibbon will have any more videos in the future gutsy are you asking if i will have other videos with gutsy gibbon yeah i think they want to know if that's something you got planned in the future i'm hoping so she's a fucking star all right excellent let's carry on there uh el around $1.99 right into your job time to answer the questions uh yeah i'm i'm getting to it you know i i like to let the people riff off and i think this is going to be probably the most we've gotten to expound on steward and arans beliefs on modern day debate uh albeit uh it was some warning for me that they're riffing a little harder than they usually do wits it gets it $4.99 physics at all scales shows us that all phenomena is in a process of seeking a state of equilibrium what is the and to descend for the intrinsic order and to i will grant that you either in in nature you're either going to achieve balance for some time or you're going to fail to achieve balance for any time in which you you had to calamity so the the only way you can prolong your being is to mean you know is to achieve balance but there's but there's no goal i mean it's not a it's not intentional all right well let's carry on al around $1.99 bring sharia law and ban beer here just kidding no never ban beer never take my sweet beer away from me all right now uh blaster master $85 stew what convinces you personally that christianity is true yeah what is the appeal that would be my question let's try to get it in 30 seconds if you don't mind well is god of the universe actually loves you is with you here and there's an eternal reality awaiting i think but but but but aside from the fantasy biggest appeals well you said what is i'm not talking here i'm simply since since there's no i mean there's absolutely no indication that that's real why do you believe it anyway no it's one or i just wanted the first question there i think there's all the evidence in the world you know the teleology meaning none meaning meaning zero geological argument meaning very not one single fact in evidence at all biologists and mini astrophysicists now are saying they're probably that there's no evidence whatsoever but you're asking me the attractiveness of it and that was i want to know why you why you what what is the appeal of believing something for which there is according to universal consensus there's zero evidence at all period sorry say that again yeah none despite the fact there's absolutely no evidence for it and a shit ton of evidence against it why do you believe it anyway just because you say there's no evidence doesn't mean there's no evidence but because there is no evidence i am forced to say there is no evidence because it because you know how much evidence there is i'm going to be literal this is mathematically accurate that's the evidence you have so why do you believe it anyway you're a dying breed leo i'm pretty oh atheism what movie are you quoting come on bro what about bob really you haven't seen what about bob have you know but since there is not a single fact in evidence for your belief which we established in the early part of this debate why do you still make believe what is not evidently true anyway what is the appeal all right let's do that and within like 15 seconds let's move on to the next one there stewart like blaze pascal talks about if you find it attractive then you will honestly start to look into the evidence i don't think are and wait wait wait wait so if i if i find it unattractive and you're not there's still if there's evidence i'm going to look for it doesn't matter whether it's attractive or not but if there's no evidence then it doesn't matter if it's attractive it falls totally falls i talked to kids about this all the time and adults kids okay i'm glad you threw in adults at the end because that's the only ones i care about if they come in and see that the gospel is unattractive i have to change my identity to fit that of a god then they're not going to honestly look for evidence there's no way well then why don't you present the evidence oh because there isn't any that's why you are biased all right there is no evidence there is not one actual fact in evidence to support your belief period that's it that's l we definitely know we definitely know that you guys stand on those pillars on this discussion so let's carry on what's it right we have a shit ton of evidence to show that everything you believe is a lie but we don't have fuck all to say that there's any truth to it so why do you still pretend what is not true i want to know what is the appeal why do you care so much because i believe in truth and it maddens me why i have to talk to people who refuse to who don't care what the truth is who tell me who tell me deliberately that they know that what they believe is not really true but they're going to believe it anyway who say that these may be what the facts are but i prefer to believe this so that bothers me great conspiracy theory called christianity is harming the world and you're out to set people free in a very driven way i'm trying to be honest with people that the thing that irritates me the most about your religion is the fact that it's entirely based on lies that there's that everything you can say in defense of it absolutely every single thing qualifies as a lie in defense of your belief everything zero exceptions and there is nothing true about it that bothers me that's where somebody who loves truth and who only wants to believe things that are true it it it it it confuses me when i meet people like yourself who don't give a fuck what the truth is you're gonna believe the make believe that you know is not really true and lie about it on top of that that confuses me why would you do that just see truth differently 15 seconds or stewart the truth is what the facts are what we can confirm we're not not whatever else we might assume imagine beyond or instead of that all right hold on there that that is the realm of religion we that baseless speculation asserted as if it was a matter of fact that's your belief system we got more super chats pouring in the longer like i said you guys go so you better get on faster with those super chats it's not my fault all right stewart 15 seconds it's not my fault i was i don't like hen guys but i always want we just want to see you get mad at some point 10 seconds yeah i i respect that stewart's ship looks very much like my ship oh very nice i'm doing what i can indeed that ship has sunk yeah so we need to pop the cork on another one are we going to get through this tonight we're going to try uh i don't know what you it's like you said i'm trying to speed you guys along but you guys got a lot of things here you're thinking about hold on there i'm just kidding we're going this is gonna say you're making this worse stewart get down wit's it stewart wit's it gets 999 the first gulp from a glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist from the bottom of glass god is waiting for you arin when are you gonna finish your drink ah wit's it you're just being a troll i'm sorry wit's it i like you but you're being a bit trolly soul 499 oh solo 499 why is it reasonable somebody told me that i should debate wit's it gets it and i went and looked up i don't know two three things and i was convinced that wit's it doesn't get it like about anything and so i decided not i'm not qualified to get that person to help that they need well let's carry on then solo 499 why is it reasonable for atheists to require visual evidence when the apostles of jesus required visual evidence of the resurrection ah because you have seen because you saw evidence but blessed is he who has not seen and yet believed because we're selling a bullshit story and so you're not supposed to question us you're just supposed to shut up and believe whatever we tell you because we tell you that's what religions decree all right let's carry on from there um and yeah let's uh let's try to mitigate the super chats because we want to let everybody go at a good time all around uh trans oxy anna or trans oxy ania land above oxys is the latin name for the region and civilized located civilization located on lower central asia i'm not sure if we and wit's it gets it just proved that he doesn't get it so yeah aron literally agreed to debate with me until i suggested atheism versus creationism and i said but those are not those are not diametrically opposed there's not atheism versus creationism because there's atheism because you know there's atheism versus theism that's opposed but creationism is an extreme version of that and so wit's it gets it proved that he don't get it by trying to say that we know you have to have this extreme radical view or else and so i'm sorry that that's that's why i'll never debate wit's it gets it because he don't don't get it at all wit's it don't get it let's try not to talk too much about other people that aren't on the show right now but they're in the chat but i was gonna say that he's not on the show right now they're spewing their stupidity in the chat but i was gonna say we do debates on creation and evolution so i'm happy to do that but you know you can't get anybody with any accountability to debate me on that subject well let's let's see what we can do as far as the future goes yeah you know let's see that happen our our end is extending the invitation everybody there and i'd like to see it that'd be a lot of fun uh so this one from pc surgeon the original five dollars i'm not a fan of steward's mic uh yeah well that's fine you know you don't have to be a fan of it i can hear stewart great so charles schreiner five dollars frustrating to watch the uh an abundance of evidence get dismissed by not countering with their own evidence thanks aron for helping my deconversion we'll take that as a compliment and carry on from there thanks charles uh you know if you if you don't feel like you got enough out of this discussion i would just say you know go back two hours and you'll find all kinds of stuff uh el arant $1.99 aron okay then religions are part of evolution yeah yeah it's the embarrassing part of our you know like our uh our middle school years okay war boss five dollars canadian aron thank you for defending rationality and truth you're amazing well amazing indeed well war boss we love the uh the complimentary superchats there's a lot better than any diss tracks that we get al arant $1.99 aron atheism doesn't have objective morality no but we're the only ones who do all right al arant $1.99 stewart you are strawmaning yourself i'm not sure what that pertains to so let's just carry on fellas i'll read it because you know stewart's got a strong stomach for it it's not really too ad hominy but uh kent mcdonnell junior five dollars it's amazing that even when aron and gives a broad lesson on history of christianity and it's borrowing of other religions stewart shrugs it up any thoughts there oh you know if i come off as too defensive then it shows that i don't have a very strong faith or relationship with my god i'm sorry that was wrong well nye says four six six six all right we won't do any more on mating because my wife's trying to sleep next time aron raw and stewart are on can i get all three of you to dress as dr franken ferder we return to transylvania you have no idea how much you need to pay in super chats prepare the tractor beam yeah i was going to say yeah that's gonna have to go directly to honey if you want this you should have been here 40 years ago darling all right calm down what's it gets it 499 my actual question was doesn't the initial establishment of a jet of objective moral standard necessitate necessitate necessitate necessitate geez a pre-wet prerequisite of intention boys i'm having trouble because uh because i don't have my glasses on here hold on yeah i think you can make that out doesn't the initial establishment of an objective moral standard and necessitate a prerequisite of intention no for the reason i explained earlier like an hour ago all right like i said fellas there's lots of debate to go through so you know if you miss something go back i'm sure you'll find it uh lilith for $20 for a snake the truth teller well thanks lilith toy yota for $20 no question attached thanks for the $20 we appreciated in defense of the gospel 499 aron would you agree you wouldn't have morality you live by today without being raised in a christian household uh i would definitely disagree with that because it doesn't matter where i lived it doesn't matter what time period i lived in if i lived in a pre-christian time period i i think i would still have the same morality and it would not be christian all right all right christian christianity has can claim no part of my my my my my respect for humanity or truth all right well let's move on from there all around 499 steward western intelligent agencies overthrow two iranian regimes we also witnessed a miracle in taliban replacement with taliban for 2.3 trillion it's also kind of like a declaration so what do you think there it's getting late what's the point i'm not sure uh western intelligence agencies overthrow two iranian regimes yeah toy yota $20 steward next surgery you have your consciousness is in an antithesis oh my goodness antitheseologists hands we work hard to ensure you live your brain is 100 responsible for your consciousness end of story bra binius gauge look him up yeah but why would you bring him up because it's the same it's the same deal yeah but i'm just i'm just curious why would you bring up my argument in your defense because it's midnight and i'm switching to your side okay oh my goodness well yeah we did we didn't go go on like we gotta hurry because people are gonna pour in more stop for a walker five dollars most secular scholars don't even believe joseph's joseph of aria aramathia existed just for your information information just fi i'm sure and his name was josephus all right exit dissolve two dollars steward one eyewitness account of raised jesus not nine false fact you've been fact checked look at that you see a kid let's move on without east jason 83 stew what most influenced the growth of it christianity the miracle stories or its ethical system constantine pre-constantine there were thousands of christians and most constantine millions constantine took it on because it was so big it was smart political move it was a it was a smart strategic move to completely undermine and reverse christian teachings such that no longer were they in renunciates and pacifists now it suddenly becomes onward christian soldiers and prosperity gospel but don't forget he converts fortunately all right ele ron i'm gonna come uh you know consolidate your super chats here because a lot of your questions have already been answered here and i'm gonna ask uh arin uh over here from thomas garmin what is your favorite breed of snake oh um i i i have a couple of uh false water cobras behind me that i i i very much like i i love my my young female i i love her to death i i recently got a uh a reticulated python and i'm finding that they are not deserving of the reputation that they've had all right well you heard it here fellas that's uh that's the one uh he's calling out tonight yeah that could change uh sometimes so uh you know check in again coal beasley five dollars arin is my hero and reminds me of what billy bop thorton would look like with a mustache and long hair and the darkest beer imaginable cheers arin arin sorry thank you how far back on your on your uh super chats are you we're almost to the end here because uh are we really okay yeah ele ronde had a couple more super chats here but a lot of them uh are either just ad-homs or you know questions we've already answered so we're just gonna move on from them sorry ele ron i'm glad that people are paying for these because the ones that they haven't been paying for i've been seeing some really stupid shit in your chat i should just not look at the chat because i think you should because it seems it seems like you're having a great time with it i mean you know there's some dumb motherfuckers in your chat billy bob thorton i've got nothing over here i will just wait until the comments afterwards you know uh at least i haven't put myself on mute tonight everybody isn't that just great because last time i was on here with matt uh and uh trey i kept putting myself on mute which was a real pain in my butt so uh let's move on high flyer a flyer 499 maybe satan sent arin to pull us away from jesus just a thought well it would have been a good move if there if there was a satan and a jesus which of course i don't believe think about this because i made this argument at least a decade before almost two decades before i became a satanist myself i was arguing that the worst thing that satan ever did was try to reason with jesus and that and one of these stories you know jesus or satan takes jesus up to this tall mountain and he starts trying to negotiate with him in a way that is obviously suspiciously unbelievable these are not the sorts of things that a reasonable person would have said to jesus 10 seconds but i could see how the propaganda has played into this and if there was a real satan that he's trying to reason against faith and also from my understanding of of hashitan and the zoroastrian scriptures that anybody that tries to reason against faith becomes the satan and so that meant that i am satan and i figured that out 20 years ago before i joined the satanic temple all right well wait wait wait oh god seward's got some thoughts even so king david joe doubting thomas i know you like to pick on doubting thomas so maybe i shouldn't have said that one they are questioning god putting him in the dock non-stop for about what you combine those two books 250 chapters worth and god allows it most of the time like 90 yeah and then jesus comes in and says thou shalt not put the lord thy god to the test so that's thomas and the reason why he said that was because thomas had already received evidence from the disciples and so he had many opportunities and so now finally jesus is saying hey buddy it's time to stop doubting got plenty of evidence now take the leap all right but he criticized him he criticized him for asking for evidence no it wasn't that you've had enough evidence and now you should believe no you said blessed is he who has not seen and yet believe because we're looking for only credulous gulla believers in my church no no he never beats up on anybody when it comes except thomas directly well oh he's he's harder on his disciples but look at how he reinstates peter i mean peter didn't believe not only did not believe he was rejecting him completely we can have a lot of interesting conversations until i d convert you all right let's carry on listen to this real quick my buddy yesterday got unbaptized after i baptized him i didn't know that was a thing in the jewish synagogue i'm a little bit upset about it to be honest i got unbaptized a year ago i got unbaptized a year ago at but at the satanic temple event in uh in in the uh the idaho state capital in boise and then i recorded a number of unbaptisms uh last week in uh in washington state at the the the shan fut concerts where they were there was there was a big satanic gathering that was also going on the same thing there was a bunch of unbaptisms going on there and uh i got to record rebecca vitzman and her husband being unbaptized i was proud to be part of that all right well let's carry on everybody um although i have to complain that the way the satanists do the the unbaptism i still don't think is is correct or complete because it doesn't involve a blow dryer well let's carry on fellas uh that's good good thoughts on that robin webster uh five dollars please learn about urman if you wish to quote him he has a course on how the gospels are anonymous and some versions of the bible says so yep yes yes that's exactly right my point was bartho does not hold that in a dogmatic way look at his debate with um peter williams peter j williams in no way is he like they are anonymous he thinks they probably are but in no way is he dogmatic about it okay but how what's the difference if he thinks they're probably anonymous meaning we don't have any any means of identifying an author for these and i agree with him we don't have a way of identifying and no reason to assume an author's name like you erroneously do then how was it dogmatic because the burden of proof still remains on you guys and you having you for assuming no you know who the author is nobody knows who the author is you're the one pretending that you know we don't know therefore burden of proof all on you know the definition of burden of proof is i know that christians hate nothing more than the burden of proof but it's because you keep making these empty ass assertions of impossible absurdity that you can't back up email bart email bart and we'll see who's right it's all i got okay okay all right let's hear me the exact question because i want this in documentation i can email bart and i will but i want the exact question documented from you i will quote that exact question when i send it i like that's funny the skeptic when it came to this just like i'm a healthy skeptic on this whole debate topic that's why people wait wait wait you you don't get to believe credulous shit for no evidence and then claim to be a skeptic why people say hey he's one step away from atheism because you don't get to believe make believe credulous bullshit with no evidence whatsoever and then pretend to be a skeptic you don't get to do that well i'm not gonna allow it well you and daniel denett are two of the only brights in this world self-proclaimed brights and i need to get there and i'll get there i do not self-proclaim as a bright nor do i think that denett does i bet he's a brilliant man i love him all his books that's all written in his books all right we're gonna try to read we're gonna try to read all the super chats over five dollars to get these blacked out and already i already said aleronte uh you know most of the questions that you asked there like massive respect for taking care of the i haven't read any of the books of the so-called new atheists i haven't read any of them i read scientific articles and that's almost exclusively what i read is scientific stuff i have read a handful of of of of course the comparative religious mythologies and i've read some analyses of those but i don't like going into non i don't like going into fiction so i prefer to read science so if daniel denett or richard dockins or sanham or saris or whoever had published something i didn't read it so i don't know what they said i don't worship anybody as i've pointed out before all right well let's carry on with the super chats and now you heard it here at iron says he doesn't worship anybody so uh you know and then some asshole calls me a hypocrite for not being hypocritical don't worry about the old super chat there's all kinds of people in there and there are several things uh bender is great uh says for 699 canadian not really on topic uh but does iron listen to uber heavy music something like cannibal corpse or does he get into anything heavier uh not super heavy i have listened to decapitated what was it oh man i'm trying to remember uh decapitated what the fuck i can't remember the name decapitated the cat cat cannibal or cattle decapitation something like but i listen to serious xm when i do it's always on the um the extreme metal channel and i don't have a lot of time unfortunately unless i'm driving someplace i wish that i had more pop culture references uh my favorite band at the moment is in this moment uh and of course ginger uh and and kubla con and it is it is cattle decapitation and that that is i i do appreciate them i do like that sort of music it makes me feel nice if that makes any fucking sense oh yeah well i was gonna say i mean i i feel kind of uh once again out of place because i don't know any of those bands there because most of the i like amon amar said it's the same kind of shit all the time and i i feel like i've kind of been there like 30 years ago well for the sake of fun uh stewart what's your favorite band oh i don't know if i'm gonna be a little cliche mumpered in the suns oh nice no as i say yet i don't know for me there's sometimes toss up between like queen and deo and judas priest and uh i don't know there's there are you a look there's are you i've seen i've seen alice cooper uh motley crew black sabbath ozzy osbourne i've seen i've seen all of the judas priest i've seen their farewell concert three times oh yeah he keeps saying farewell and then you know comes back for more ozzy's done more farewells ozzy keeps doing farewell judas priest keeps doing farewell i've seen their farewell concert like three times each no that means you wonder in 2000 years will they say it was a resurrection a resurrection of ozzy osbourne well let me tell you what i what i noticed you know what i what i what i noticed back in the day i could go to the concert for 15 dollars and pay dollar drafts back in the 80s i paid 144 and then i go to see priest this was to see ozzy and judas priest but then in the last decade i would go to see ozzy and judas priest and it would be 150 dollars and 10 dollar drafts so everything got 10 times more expensive but nobody's making 10 times as much money no i hear that i like i just said i spent 144 bucks to go see judas priest uh it was a great show good show though wasn't it oh my god he can scream that was amazing he's still going uh 0 499 uh that was his question there so uh thanks for that ryan for 20 i have seen judas priest so many times just in the last five years since they announced the retirement i've seen oh nice my old band we used to be able to rip through a really hard judas priest song called tyrant uh it's a really old priest and it's a really hard song to play in a band because it just changes all the time so my favorite priest song you stitch me up good then you cut me down burn it up you hang around yeah exactly i love that but yeah keep me winning it's not part of the song it's not part of their tour anymore what the the one that that really gets me is the sentinel i always i go waiting to hear the sentinel and there was one tour where they didn't play the sentinel and i felt so rejected uh yeah they yeah as i say the sentinel there's a live of it online and it's really wicked but uh yeah that's one of the i got firepower here on vinyl and i've got um uh killing machine which is the album you just referenced and one of the songs i really want to do is delivering the goods i was actually trying to get sony to give us the rights to that for this show uh and and emailing them and being a real butt because i was like that'd be so sick you are a complete freak i know young man thank you i want to go to a show with you yeah rock on it's good it's good i was gonna say i'm hoping to be down in texas actually to scream and shout at people that'd be a lot of fun uh one of these times i'll be down here for one of the live appearances give me give me a heads up because there's a number of shows we could do oh that's fun i'm always always interested in that uh so yeah twenty dollars uh credit when credit is due stewart your ability uh your ability you come lost debates is impressive you're just being rude for twenty dollars ryan and a fellow ryan you're just telling stewart that he lost you know i think everybody won here tonight because we're all having a good time for me ryan i'm just told ryan to bring it and i like it like the edginess no being nice on here yeah it's nice of these if it's all about evolutionary theory then niceness is weakness and should be the superman niches superman and we should live for ourselves and ourselves should be god well gosh that sounds familiar that reminds me of what i read in mine comp when when adolf hitler adamantly denounced uh evolution uh yeah i was gonna say that i thought that took a little turn 499 uh sorry 49 99 thank you so much uh w m x 99 first time catching you live my eight-year-old wanted to ask you why you guys are up so late why are we up so late my goodness these guys wanted to talk that's what it ended up being that was a deeper guys including the rest of the question says great show and demonstration on both sides on how to use thinking critical thinking skills and how to not use critical thinking skills so um it's you know what you're enigmatic i have no idea who that's for so we're just going to say that's a win for everybody once again um eloran once again uh check the rest of the debate i think your questions will be answered mutt mutt keep children away from any religions comments up to a minute there fellas no thoughts all right john carter five dollars stewart are you educated and if so why you are partaking in the tree of knowledge the ultimate sin wait say that again stewart are you educated and if so why are you partaking in the tree of knowledge because that's the ultimate sin yeah most of the end god gave us god gave us total freedom other than one thing sounds like good parenting actually you don't want to give free license to everything to children and so there was guidelines but we thought that we knew better than god but not only that we thought god did not have his best for us and we needed to have our own best for us so we worshiped ourselves because you have to worship something because you don't have to worship anything we know what happens when there's ultimate freedom and in this country the only moral objective really in terms of what everybody thinks is right is everybody should have ultimate freedom and if you look at every psychological study that it's not that case a single child is struggling because we're always we're we're leaning toward what is best for society and stewart demands anxiety it's through the roof this representing the atheist position divorce increase increase depression increase suicide increase lack of forgiveness increase would go with divorce except that we're all i'm the one that's advocating for a forgiveness increase and his belief system doesn't even allow for that so will you just quit lying i'm just giving the stats i'm not making a case you're just lying that's all you're doing for either closing out i'm i that that's all you're doing you're just lying misrepresenting my position stating things that are not actual period no no no this is just i'm talking about freedom right now no you're not all right well let's carry on there fellas uh truth powers dollar 99 iron ever tried debating matt on hard atheism who's matt i think they mean matt dilahunty on hard atheism why why would i debate matt on hard atheism well maybe you go truth powers that's uh that's my iran's thoughts about that five dollars from zero hate no no question attached thanks for that uh in defense of the gospel iron if they were selling a bs story why were all the early christians martyred for what they were proclaiming peter was crucified upside down because he didn't feel worthy to die like christ stay good again so they're asking why people would die for the story so iron if you were selling a bs story why were all the early christians martyred for what they were proclaiming peter was crucified upside down because he didn't feel worthy to die like christ because we don't know that any of that happened all of the almost all of that is propaganda like the shit that we listen to on most of our news today except all except there are so many non christian sources that talked about it too okay i would over get we're getting an awful lot of propaganda enemy attestation okay like what again like let's just go with akam's razor on this one okay like i'm pretty sure that they were dying so we could say maybe they hallucinated even go with one of the naturalists but i don't know if it's just and so we have a number of zealots who cut their own balls off so that they could catch the comet hail bop in the 1990s and so that proves that hail bop is real no it's no no no no oh of course not my my example doesn't prove your point i i get it i get it they knew all right to be so when people do stupid shit in defense of their religion if it doesn't count unless it's christianity so we can come up with a number of different examples from different religious would you like to hear a number of different examples of crazy stupid shit people did to torture themselves over their different beliefs that were not christianity does it just not matter unless it's christianity this isn't even in the realm of the debate of course let's tie that back in with this question here zero eight five dollars is morality subjective i'll kick it over to you steward no objective really there has to be a shunt really and i think how do you get objective morality gotta be connected to some type of spiritual realm i would say wait but of course it can't be because there's no such thing so how do you get to a an objective morality well from a materials perspective i would just say the shooter should go scotch-free because maybe they were brought up in a bad home except that i as i already explained twice earlier in this show the source the one real source for our morality is the fact that we are a social species and so we have to rely on our being able to cohabitate productively and stand by our word and show empathy for our family friends and fellows i did explain this to you twice and you don't have a means of objective morality all you have is this asshole pretending to speak for god who's an obvious liar is then using his subjective opinion to speak for god's subjective opinion you don't have an objective morality you don't have a way to know whether something is moral or not i do and so i can judge your bible and your god is both being immoral i believe i told us to do it 30 seconds because objective morality has to do with all gods not the christian god no no it has no it's all to do with gods it has to do with people jesus christ as it has to do with people we the one our magic imaginary friends well let's do it close this one out so we can carry on there because we got a few more we've only got three more but still let's uh let's do it oh my gosh we got an actual number steward there's a there's a light at the tunnel there is holy light we're yeah exactly right we're gonna i may not need to get another beer but i'm gonna well you go ahead and do that um i've i've i've run out that's fine uh you know that's that's good for me um aren't stepped out so i did say we're only gonna ask questions over five dollars to close this out um but aren't are you a fan of nirvana yes or no no no not feeling to me either i i i never really was a big fan either myself i was into that prettier prettier metal and i don't know grunge closest i came to the liking nirvana was liking weird alley incubate a heartless carry on uh le le hair says for five dollars if there's no promise of reward and no threat of punishment would steward still worship his god yes why because it's more about the relationship with him that is about the value of the magic imaginary friend carrot or a stick all right let's not i'm sorry i didn't get an answer to my question go ahead you're not the one asking the questions here i i did just ask a question no you're an hour you're an hour behind me it's only 1112 there okay it is it is 112 here all right go ahead i've gotten the look from my wife like twice but that's okay she's she's crashed out now sorry tori all right she hates when i say that 50 believe me my wife is gonna have words for me too why did you let this go on so long i get it well that's all right you know i i i got into a little uh car accident in my wife's car there a few weeks ago and the guy that i got in the car accident with was driving his wife's car as well that's why i drive a road warrior car separate from my wife boy we were all in trouble we were all in trouble with our wives on that day tough thick last super chat if you throw any more in the super chats i'm not going to read them because we got to let these guys go $50 steward why would god use fear in order for humans to obey him it kind of contradicts the idea of an all-loving god even if he gave us free will there are still better ways to show love than fear yeah it's called justice justice shows love if you don't have justice you don't have any form of love just like r and i were talking about earlier you have to have some type of judgment for these people who have not had a fair shake in life everybody wants that i hope there is one maybe aren's right maybe there is no judgment day and all those ladies with all the corrective surgeries who've i've had to counsel over the years it was just a tough shake and their husbands beat them to almost a death and they win and their husband to get off scout free all right i wish that that were not the case but it is and then frankie p says no proof of evolution uh yeah there is and i'm not lying i can bring it but you can't fucking coward sorry i shouldn't be dealing with your chat it's all right there and you're allowed to have fun with this uh this program anyway you'd like to and i'm glad you are so uh arin uh you know if you got a up to one minute well i'm going to let you close out on your thoughts on our conversation is christianity true and hit that like button anybody who hasn't uh we're past our six six six uh bruce dickinson didn't appear uh to sing any songs so i'm sorry about that guys i know the fact that there is no god is kind of an impediment to christianity being true the fact that jesus was an idiot first century faith healer and fraud is another problem uh and then i think we kind of just stop there the fact that there's no supernatural there's no mind body dualism there is no soul even in the original version of christianity where the christianity just has people just getting up being undead i guess in a zombie apocalypse kind of uh sort of a state none of that has any truth to it at all neither does any of the old testament that jesus constantly refers to we know that the flood never happened the tower of babel never happened adam and eve never happened all of that is absolute bullshit um it's a real problem that we've had to waste so much of our western culture pursuing these idiocies these esops fables that we know that there's no truth to any of it it's disturbing to me and that that and that the belief system not only requires that you make believe things that are not true but that you reject things that are true that's probably the bigger problem that i and it's the thing that i have the biggest problem with where people will tell me will admit to me that they don't care what the truth is they're gonna believe what they want to believe that's the biggest damn problem all right well thank you iron for your closing statement there and stewart up to a minute there your closing thoughts on our discussion this evening on is christianity true i just think you know why was it that jesus was able to get the jewish the jewish people really around him to believe that he was god like how could you have over the unthinkability of that well why did he succeed as the only person who ever claimed deity and also founded a major indeed the largest movement and religious faith the first answer is that this life must have been exquisitely beautiful that he had the greatness we get a glimpse in the gospels must have been smitten those around him it is extraordinarily difficult to claim to be perfect and divine and then to get the people who actually live with you to believe it but jesus did just that that's why christianity is true all right well thank you and thank you iron raw and stewart for coming out here tonight and having this discussion and thank you to everybody in the live chat that kept themselves friendly and to those who didn't well you know what we think of you you know get wracked so that's fun we'll see you next time everybody a modern day debate and you know maybe i'll put on the solo maybe i'll put on a song of me singing i don't know it's fine i got all kinds of stuff here thanks iron and stewart again big round of applause a virtual round of applause for our speakers and we will see you next time cheers everyone