 What program is that? So you're in a position to share education and knowledge about us and it's not like people If there isn't a name for the program specifically or that kind of thing that's fine But if you are in a position or in a role where you talk about education Is there a name to this? Eastern door Eastern door indigenous program Okay, thank you What are the age groups or the the target groupings of people that this would apply to this program? 18 to 90 years of age, okay What is the aim of the program to have a better understanding of? traditional knowledge What happens in your program? We open the meeting we open the program we open our circle Our teaching model is a circle we sit in a circle and we smudge to Plans ourselves to make ourselves ready for ceremony you have a pipe community pipe that is Open in our group and we bring the pipe when we load the pipe and smoke the pipe four times around the circle and we share After the first round the first round of the pipe is for prayer be grateful for today and the other three rounds of the pipe is open to questions sharing and Interactive listening and talking and we use the plethora to be able to have the permission to share and we We follow the agenda of Eastern door Program, thank you for for telling us what was happening You know what you can expect to go through But is there a specific purpose of of that program if I walk away from that program, huh? What am I happy with? my accomplishment the use of the program is Used in a incarceration setting and the main purpose of that program is to be able to understand and to participate in a Ceremony where for about an hour and a half we can all forget that we're inside of a prison Correctional setting so while you and your participants are there. How do you? in the participants measure success Who's measured in quite a few ways? I guess first off everyone is equal. We sit in a circle To be able to initiate that thought We were all equal We are all the same. No one is ahead of anybody else. No one is above anybody else. No one is Standing and somebody sitting and We are all either standing or all sitting We all acknowledge each other the moment of Being able to share with the handling of the feather the eagle feather the act that we're there to participate The act that we're all open to the ceremony that takes place to open to open up the prayers open up Time for everyone to be able to share Questions that are asked the agreement that we were all going to be peaceful for the moment that we're in that in front of the medicines in front of the the altar in front of the sacred items No one is going to get personal and hurt somebody else It's pretty unique because it is a prison Inside a prison there is always act of no trust no talking and no love The same thing that's he present in any abusive relationship any abuse of actions that take place They are present inside prison. Don't talk don't trust don't love so in that in that aspect where Not to trust Is present and taught it is a success that we don't hurt each other Anytime we're in that circle because we are all from different tribes different parts of the country Different we're in there for different reasons and I say we because I I Am a participant of that group and a leader of that group and a facilitator of that group sometimes places kind of grade success By being able to say Their enrollment is growing Is that a measure your program would acknowledge or is it kind of ebb and flow kind of participation? I guess Statistics put together by the government identify that area they encourage a Lot of participants be there even though They limit the amount I can go I still get anywhere from five to 25 I've had up to 29 in my group in one group probably I wouldn't be exaggerating but I would just say that I probably have the biggest group the biggest groups in my programs and anywhere else had ever been I Do have a lot of people come to the group So just so you know like all of these all these We'll call them some questions We're still on we're still in question one What are the some questions? I guess the last one we can talk about is What challenges have you faced and? How have you overcome them to meet the program the success that it is? the different dialects of the people that participate in Ojibwe Kree Mohawk Oji Kree Shia and Hadawa the different tribes understanding tribal relationships Understanding differences in background. We have urban urban indigenous people. We have members of First Nations people we have status people Now we're having a lot of Métis people coming to our groups There is a recognition of some people understand some of the languages some people Barely speak English a lot of people It's the first time they're ever in program run by Another native person a lot of them don't understand and have never had any training in sweat lodges as circles past peace thing They've never Spoken their language. They've never heard their language spoken. They've never sat with a pipe. They've never used a feather Some people have never Understood the seven grandfather teachings some of them asked for a grandfather teachings. I Tell them I don't teach the seven grandfather teachings You're supposed to acquire grandfather teachings through an observation of the person Modeling those teachings language is acquired. It's not necessarily thought our method of learning though Where Ojibwe language has gone by the wayside our greatest teacher? in Conscious to children has turned into a religious figure Nanabush who now sits beside God up in heaven according to a lot of people Nanabush was our teacher of Consequences to behavior No longer is recognized as such. I tried to bring that back to understand the act of Life as a journey. It's not a destination try to understand that I'm not there to judge criticize I'm there to be a participant in A place where we all grow. What was the question again? So we were talking about What were the challenges of you developing the program and then what what was it that you did to kind of? Overcome those challenges. I think the biggest part was to turn it into a participation Program rather than a program where there was a presenter that put down his ideas and argued his ideas I came to a Sharing circle where people shared their thoughts shared their emotional feeling their feelings and so forth and shared the knowledge that they had whether it was has to do with indigenous traditional knowledge or Knowledge of their daily lives knowledge of crime. What was there? What was there stands with crime? What did they have to share about their feelings of towards crime? What did they have to share towards your feelings of what happened to some of them when they went to a school? What what what they termed as civilized? What what did they think was civilized? Answers to that the challenges were in the programs themselves Programs had been put together by non-native people for native people a lot of the programs that I I ran across were put together by non-native female people that were being directed towards male indigenous inmates and it didn't It'd be like me trying to explain to someone how it felt like to be pregnant But it doesn't die and a lot of the inmates were smart enough to say I don't understand that Why is that woman putting me into a box when I'm already inside a box there the understanding of Western Society and Western knowledge It's put together with left-brain knowledge towards people that have been in trauma When most people have been in trauma it switches you to Right-brain dominance, so you have left-brain people putting together a program to be directed towards right-brain dominant people How can that work? How can a left-brain person understand that there's no such thing as time with indigenous people How can an indigenous person understand the importance of time when most of our knowledge is pretty well mnemonic? and At the best taking nature we have acquired Encoded knowledge writing to our DNA because that's the way we've been for thousands of years And all of a sudden we are being confronted with a 500 year old language That has to that is supposed to understand all that stuff and you can't explain that in English So that's the challenge I know you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, well There's many layers for sure So something I want to just dig a little deeper in terms of a challenge was you spoke about working with other nations Man in your in your environment. Yeah, tell me a little bit about the challenges of that well when you've had a language that is basically nearest nearest to the year I can put it at through fossil discovery and so forth Our language is about 13,000 years old with 13,000 years of knowledge Embedded and intertwined right into the language. We were talking about God our relationship to God 13,000 years ago 11,000 years before the Bible came along. We had a relationship with God We didn't we didn't have faith. We didn't have belief because we didn't need them. We had knowledge We had we knew God we called them our relations and we finished talking any time We were talking by a fire or any time we were talking in the main ceremony We we ended that by saying to all my relations talking about the grandfathers talking about Our relationship to nature, which is creation the Creator had put creation there We had an understanding our drums. They were made to resonate Send messages across the universe even our measurements. They were Subliminal knowledge that we're right into our being when we when we were babies. We I think our non-native people have their remembering their focus they they think that they're Remembering the dream members of their dreams starts when they're about two years old and Their awareness of stimuli starts they say between 18 to 20 months. We measure our knowledge of Stimulate to come inside our mother's womb. We listened to that heartbeat for nine months. We began to regulate our Lives to that heartbeat when the mother goes to sleep Her heartbeat slows down maybe goes to sleep and run in the womb because he hears the heartbeat slow down Anytime afterwards when you become a man you listen to soft music that is slow You fall asleep that subliminal knowledge doesn't leave you anytime you're in an area where Sound is faster than the heartbeat. You have you go into a frenzy. That's why there's riots at some record some rock rock music People's spirit goes to a frenzy because they're listening to some music is faster than their heart. It regulates So they they are taught the subliminal knowledge like another example, I guess would be how you How a baby is tied up in their ticking off baby has tied up in a ticking off and then for their backwards and their forward Tied up forward in the behind your mother's back or their father's back So they take and look over their Parents shoulders while they're doing parents are doing something little guys watching. What's going on? That's how baby learns it and Sometimes the baby if you're going to travel the baby is tied backwards in a ticking off And so that baby will know where he came from he will see where he came from So that if you're something ever happens over there that baby will find your way back Because he's the one that saw where they came a lot of our teachings is subliminal The act of picking medicines going with the grandmother picking medicines the knowledge stays in their mind So when they get older, they're looking for something don't find that subliminal know I Was raised that way. So that's why I know when you're I think when I was about Two three years old two and a half three years old My grandma told me that puppies came from pussy. Well, that's great. It's so my grandma Let's get one. She said okay. Well, you just sit there and you watch those pussy Well, she says when one of those things falls down it hits the ground it becomes a puppy She says then you go and run and catch it. I ran and got that puppy You know, I sat there and I sat there and I sat there Waiting for that pussy will it a fall any one of those pussy. There's a bunch of pussy with those I sat there to watch one of those things fall down. We're gonna run forward and catch it as soon as it fell I sat there for three days Even my grandmother bring bring me sandwiches out there. I scone biscuits and so forth So because I didn't want to leave because I might miss something Watched in the cold. I get blanket sat there and watch For the piss because I really wanted that puppy When one morning I woke up. There's a sound at the door. What the heck is that? Something moaning away and everything that I'm waning away reached up to open that door and Unlatch it and opened it and lasted There's a little puppy there. Oh, it's really happy. Hey, well, we go then I got really mad because I'd missed it I'd missed it falling down off the tree My grandmother was teaching me was subliminal Subliminal magic always be ready to watch for magic. Keep your eyes open Look for miracles look for magic in your life You that stays with you for the rest of life. You're always looking for exciting things You know always looking for what's over the next hill always well, you know Seeing a strange a strange person someplace when you walk in say hi to that person because Person could be somebody, you know, you know, you want to find out later on who this person is You say hello, how are you? You has it's a habit you have for us your life. So that's part of it. I guess Thanks for sharing that that takes us to number two from your perspective. What is Indigenous education? Indigenous education something about plants. I always said indigenous red plants. Anyway, when you talk about plants They said, oh, that's indigenous to this area I Guess indigenous knowledge or education to me would be I guess that teaching of perspective teaching of mnemonic knowledge teaching of Subliminal knowledge to understand the language to understand the meaning of language to know that there's a place where Dreams happen a lot of times a lot of the knowledge that I hear talked about in in group is Understanding spiritual knowledge Understanding something that I've never heard in school understanding spiritual abuse one of the most abusive Natures and this world and it's something that I've never heard talked about in school. I worked with a I was a supervising a student I was going after a master's in psychology or social work social work and some Psychology and she says the things that I talked about in group with the group. She had never heard Being talked about in any of her classes. We talked about spiritual abuse the act of Hurting each other spiritually the act of making somebody invisible for days at a time which is something else In another language, which is something else in another in another race, you know race it seems to be Minimizing somebody to a nothing some of the boys talk about partners not talking to them not talking to them per days And they talk about it's the most painful thing that happens to them is not being acknowledged for days at a time and some of them talk about The act of somebody disappearing talking right by them Talking right past them as if they're nothing. I see that a lot among our people some couples I know don't talk to each other for weeks. Some people I know on my first nation I don't even acknowledge me when I when I walk by them I talk I should go on Until I realized who was losing out he used to bother me, but now I at least I don't lose it I notice everybody that would box by me and because I was raised in In my language and I spoke in my language on my life My grandfather was able to teach me how it was that people part each other spiritually through the use of Sexuality there is a lot of abuse through the act of using sex as a power tool Recognize that as a spiritual warfare And I was a kid and when I was a kid I saw lots of them and There's no training for it in a school place of education. It's something that we learned through Ceremonial you learn through that through fasting you learn that through meditation and When we talk about it in group some guys get really agitated just Between someone screaming at you and someone not talking to you for days It seems to be the one not talking to you for days is more bothersome than somebody screaming They say that's the thing that's the scariest is Someone minimizes you to a nothing that is beyond abandon to an issue not a person Emotional abandonment is more scarier than physical then that's why they say that's why they suffered so much when they were kids Their parents were drunk drunk all the time and they were emotionally Emotionally ignored and they said that is one thing that hurt them the most is to have somebody there But not acknowledging their presence and hurt more than being physically abused if they were gone someplace and they went around It didn't hurt as much as somebody being around and not noticing but some of these guys are You know, they're pretty pretty big guys and they cry and talk about these things inside a prison to be able to dare go there has to be a Lot of trust in that pipe a lot of trusting that medicine because without that you couldn't do that So that's that's Something that I thought I'd bring up Well, you know like something that really Kind of caught my attention Was this idea things not talked about that that was that was basically a quote that I heard you And it's a good flow into one of the questions and that question is There's there's stories and knowledge that's really good That we almost hear routinely So keeping that in mind What knowledge is important to you that you would like to pass on to the next generation? Kind of excluding those classic things that that's constantly shared kind of in in circles Do you think there's there's stories or knowledge out there? That's important that isn't being shared currently Yeah, oh, yeah, I think the act of discipline used to be taught by aunties and uncles and What we would term as godparents now, I guess Even the word godparent people don't know don't understand that anymore and The act of visiting today through what I've gone through When we when it was New Year's Eve when it was New Year's Day from that day for ten days People used to go visit each other They would go to one house and then they would have dinner there and they would go to the next house They would have supper there and then next day they would have breakfast at one place and dinner at the other place And then they would have supper at the other place They went in the egg with every family In their community to renew our relationship whether it was good before bad or anything They would still go to every house Reserve and talk to each other and visit each other Now before that happened before my generation my grandmother Used to go visit one year at a time Other people in other in other villages She would go there and live there with other people for a year Later on when she became a medicine woman a blower. She would go visit people for weeks at a time Stay there and use her medicine and look after people there and during my time Just when I was a little guy there was still visiting each other in Saigamuk West Bay My home territory was Saigamuk. They were all my relatives were and we'd be going there And we'd go and visit we were gone for a week or so go house to house visit Eat with those families visit when I went back again when I was a teenager 15 16 years old People didn't do that anymore They had evolved to where they were passing out Apples or oranges or candy You go visit somebody knock on your door you come to the door here. Here's an apple But Didn't go in the house anymore Stopped at the door took the apple I was about 15 to I was about 18 He went most I found there was he didn't go someplace but they were drinking so he didn't go there As you didn't really want to get anything more than an apple so what's the lot of that visiting wasn't worth getting the apple anymore and Today People don't visit each other anymore. There's one man in Bear Island And I think there's about three houses in Massey Saigamuk They still run outside and they shoot the strips the shotgun off New Year's Eve boom And they all have happy new year, then they run back and out There's one house in Bear Island My wife's dad goes outside New Year's Eve and shoots the gun off at midnight boom Doing a guy that does again with the visiting Somebody comes over and sees him he invites him in Sit down has a meal very very few people today People don't even know how to talk to each other anymore Rather than talk to somebody You text somebody It's like turning your head into a house before you walk in you don't know how to talk to anyone No one knows how to visit It's a it's a thing with our language when I was a little guy in Saigamuk there was a guy named Nizhwasa Gizik in Saigamuk and my my grandparents My uncles my aunties they called they called this guy Nizhwasa Gizik So me I spoke both languages and when I was a little guy Some of the kids started to call this guy seven days Because that's what Nizhwasa Gizik stands for seven days So one day saw these little guys and there's seven days. Hey seven days seven days So after I became an adult almost like 19 20 21 The next generation behind me they called this guy hey seven No more seven days seven Evolving with the language Went from Nishnabe All the way to broke down English all in one all in my lifetime I think if we like if we went back to having names that meant something like me I was raised to be dodom my language meant something my name was something and I responded to it because it's who I was learning is just a name to be given to anybody. There's only One be dodom that I know of or do up no more. So when somebody else, but you don't know I knew with me There's somebody get young John and all that four guys jump up I Need John one of them is just a job But that's the difference, you know, we used to have names that went somewhere identities I guess the visiting being able to talk to each other. It's kind of one of the most important things We don't know how to do that no more. We don't know how to feel good about ourselves inside. So nowadays we We identify with each other by what car we joy What our house looks like when I was a kid lived in a little cabin in the bush two years old when I first had cognitive recognition First thing I noticed was a nice little cabin way out in the bush. There was two people in there me my grandma and Byters crackling I had my own little bed little short bed and my grandpa was gone and I knew he was coming back I didn't see what when I first remember. I don't remember my grandpa being there, but I knew he was there He was gone when I started to remember and I didn't miss anybody for Three months. I was back there with my grandparents Just me grandma most of the time never missed anybody. There was no music. There was no talking hardly except grandma to me No other kids know nothing, but we visited even when we weren't talking to each other We visited there's a formal communication. You learn to think for yourself, but there's nobody else So I think what I'm what I miss most of all is thinking in my language When you think in your language and you pray in your language There is always somebody listen, and I think that's what non non speakers miss They miss out on that because if you speak your language and you think in your language There is always somebody who's there's always somebody who's so when you pray there is someone is And when you pray in my language and when you talk to God When we have our circles we go there to talk to God We have a chaplain a touch. Yeah, they go to the chaplain They go to the chaplain four or five of them at a time go to the chaplain They go there to talk about God every day to go there talk about God you go to my circle We talked about a bit different in one when you talk to God you expect an answer You expect that someone just when you talk about God You're still talking about him as if he's not really there when you come out of there There is a big difference in how you think you acknowledge God Physically and spiritual There is a reciprocation of thoughts and it's a totally different experience So I think being able to communicate to God is a big thing. It's an important thing. There is a change in you when you Subliminally get response That would be what I would probably like to see something coming out of this a Couple of things that I would like to know a little more about and this has to do with Stories and teachings and Thinking about your grandchildren great-grandchildren the next The next generations to come You brought up you brought up Danabush And you brought up your grandmother was a blower Are there any particular stories or teachings From either your grandmother or Nanabush that needs to be heard that haven't been shared in the last while I guess Stories or teachings that you would want to make sure are captured. I guess I guess so what I experienced I never made a mistake when I was a kid right through till I was seven years old When I was a little guy, I didn't make mistakes. I broke things. I ran into things. I Forgot things. I Locked the dog out by mistake. I never got in trouble. My grandparents never pointed out that I made a mistake It was my second week of school I wrote something down one and one make three or something like that. There was a big X Put beside my work. I had never been cognitively Aware that you can make a mistake that time even though I didn't do things according to the way I was supposed to do them my grandmother or my grandfather watch me and I would make a mistake and the only way I would make the mistake was that I saw that I had made a mistake I did that I saw that and the only way I saw that was My grandma sometimes would show me is this what you're looking for. Yeah, I'd break a glass or something She'd wipe it up and then she'd put another glass in front of me Because I'd be upset because I'd spilled my tea. I've been drinking tea since I was two years old She says, oh, she says here tea there. So I'd be careful. I didn't I would not have done I wasn't told I shouldn't be doing that. I didn't get shit Putting my tea down nothing And my little ones Selenum Sam I go out and I go and shovel about a snow Sometimes you're lucky to catch me. Oh, geez 200 boots and that's the work there. I'm gonna help you. Okay, that'd be great To to order them to help me No to correct my kids if they need it if they ask for it. I'll do that to correct them I try not to do that because that's the way it made me really think about my life myself But I had room to it seemed like I had more room more room to come to my own decisions More room to to make mistakes because you got to make mistakes if you're gonna learn something You don't make mistakes by doing things, right? I don't go to work today and Turn around and do a lot of preaching to a lot of guys This is the way you should live like me quit drinking like I did don't do what you're doing. We're teaching them shame You're not teaching me anything else We didn't learn there's a hundred fifty thousand kids. I went to school. They learned they learned that correction through shame They came back and they became adults. They had kids they tell the kids you should be ashamed of yourself You should be more like your brother. We didn't learn anything from now. You're learning to hate your brother I At least I I learned to learn to hate my cousin because that's how my uncle taught me sometimes you should be ashamed And my grandfather never said you should be ashamed yourself never never heard any of that So you have a good feeling about yourself. I went through a addiction and I went through addiction because of the pipe My grandmother taught me that I was gonna be a pipe pipe carrier by the time I was nine years old She says you're gonna be a pipe carrier. You were born with a shroud in your face So you're gonna be a pipe carrier and they didn't they didn't put me out to fast when I was eight years old My grandfather wanted me to go past my grandmother said don't do that. You're gonna kill that little boy I got first. What do you mean? She's you know, the people are gonna kill that little boy. You teach me to bring them out to Past you're gonna kill that little boy. My grandfather said well, why would they do that? You say you don't want there's nobody doing that anymore They're gonna be jealous of that little boy. Let him learn some of this stuff Let him learn don't you don't don't go to don't don't bring them out to fast Those people will kill it'll be so scared of him. He's gonna be that poor. He's gonna be strong enough as it is So that's what they did But they wanted they said well We have to teach you to be a pipe carrier because he's gonna be a pipe care And so I heard that but when you get to pipe teachings I don't think anybody with half a brain would want to be a pipe care like most other people I ran into Nowadays that they want to be pipe carriers. They all want to be Ordered pipe pipes from internet a Some of them were $95 some of the hundred fifty dollars three hundred They really want to be real strong pipe carries of seven hundred fifty dollar pipe. You can buy those you ever see them Intern and internet there's there for sale some of them guys They get honorarium for a thousand dollars a day so they buy a couple pipes put out there put out their Bundle there's one white pipes there See how powerful I am I got three of them. That's how that's how it's become because people There's a different. There's a different meaning to being a pipe carrier a different meaning to being an elder And when I was a kid when I was a kid you you said well, you know You carry a pipe you're gonna be the one to make sure everybody crosses over you die You're gonna be the last one to cross over as you're working for it share Mishomus show miss So you're a young guy you know not me man Something I was gonna be first one over So you you do things so that you're not gonna be chosen as a bike carrier So I started drinking pretty early because I didn't want to be okay And it it took me to took me right down just get roll But people still look for me and when I was drinking and everything people still look for me to ask me for When I was drinking people would say you know where there's a medicine man. We need a medicine man My family's really sick. You know where you can get one. Oh, yeah, I'd be all drunk up. I say, yeah I know there's one as well. Could you what do we need to give you to get to take us to that here? It's a while you have to give me some tobacco and what we have to bring for the healer I said, well, you probably have to bring them some Tobacco and some whiskey and you probably have to bring them blankets or something and bring some gifts Well, how well how well do you how well do you think you want to be? How much do you believe in what you're asking me to do? That's how you got it. That's how that's the presence. You got to get that person So they say, okay. Well, we've got to get quite a bit I guess because you know what you're doing and I'd be drunk and these people still looking for Especially not because they found out that my grandpa my great-uncle He'd been one of the past last ones to ever do a shaking tense ceremony No, it was one of my great-uncles. It was the last one they ever put a shaking tense ceremony The grand and my family my grandmother and my great-uncles Two of them were shaking tense that and they were expecting me to be a pipe carrier. Oh, no, not me So I drank and I found out by the time I was 25 that I could not get away from that I would have to be a pipe carrier anyway, whether I sobered up or not or whatever it was They they were intent on me being a pipe carrier. And so I started to change a little bit by then I'd have I'd had three kids At that time and I didn't know how to look after these kids tried to look after them tried to look for work I had worked and everything still couldn't be able to say okay. I'm not going to be drinking any more Bob-a-blah It's not because I didn't love the kids It's simply because I was more scared of being a pipe carrier and somebody giving me a pipe because I didn't know how to be a piker I thought you had to Be something extra special to be a piker to this day this day the same things there People say well, you know, you're going to do this learning. It's okay. I can try that but I don't know That's that's that's what I went through Nanabush, I knew that Nanabush was a teacher Nanabush was a teacher and he wasn't perfect a gun mother and introduced me to Nanabush when I was very young Nanabush He made all kinds of mistakes. He tried to take a shortcut in a bush and he was lost for days Nanabush went to a he went and made some soup turtle soup and put them I put it by the side after it boiled he put it on the side a little bit and he He asked his bum To look after his soup make sure if somebody came near a soup he'd His bum would wake him up. He said you wake me up if somebody can hear my soup So we went to sleep a little raccoon come along and what's this hate the soup Nanabush woke up As he was just putting it aside there. So sleep for a while. So it's super cool down a cool down isn't a raccoon come along It's all the soup Of course to eat his soup is gone. So I really mad So he went and squatted over the fire to burn his bum again punishes bum And he burnt his bum. So then he got he got he got he really hurt him So he ran through the bushes because it hurts so bad and he ran across these branches Willows the all-turned red from his blood became red willows. Oh Look back and she's all he's let those red willow become the teacher of kids That goes red willow become teachers of kids. So he ran with us more and ran word as rocks So he slid down the rocks scratch his bum because his bum was starting to heal and giddy So sliding under rocks for some Some of the scabs came off and see those scabs on the rocks Today said okay. He said let those scabs someday when the shinab is hungry. He can make those into soup So that's where we have those scabs on the rocks to some day Nanabush did That's one of the stories so he got into a lot of trouble this guy and when you're a little guy, I thought well He ain't going to do what I do this That's how you learned that's how you learned, you know consequences to behavior and He was a teacher and that's how I was raised all of his kids my cousins My second cousins we all learned from the old ladies of both Nanabush And he sat there and listened to stories. Oh, they smoke that guy's really something boy. He's bad Kids came back from Residential school they become adults that a whole different story of Nanabush. Nanabush was perfect I had Nanabush stories all the other stories changed around Stories came up where Nanabush was perfect just like Jesus Christ He didn't hear their old stories anymore kids didn't learn anything from Nanabush anymore Because they want to listen because they want to see how bad his dude was They weren't going to do what he did But when he became perfect kids didn't want to hear that anymore because they didn't they knew they weren't perfect So they didn't want to listen to the stories So kids changed kids changed because Nanabush changed. He became a different kind of teacher That's what I experienced the language changed the language for the word for What we've termed as a bad boy was jigglerousence We use that word, but the jigglerousence when you take it apart And look at the inner inner things of Nanabush Jigglerousence jigglerousence means you look at the little guy the behavior you're looking at comes from somewhere That old boy is not that behavior you're looking at it comes from somewhere That's what that's what our word says But because there was a language to replace it we said inside of jigglerousence we said bad boy So jigglerousence became bad boy And bad boy became jigglerousence So the language changed You nods that and you praise it When you look at the word you nods that and you see you hear people saying well guys crazy you nods them out You're misusing the word you nods again. You nods a man. He didn't belong anywhere. He belongs everywhere, but he doesn't belong anyway that's what our word means and That's exactly what you nods it means. He doesn't belong anywhere. And yet he belongs everywhere It doesn't mean crazy It's just describing how a person that's mentally handicapped behaves Describing it to a team It does not describe him a crazy person Crazy person is someone that's become insane More of what you're trying to say but no the language changed Some of our languages started to change and the people change as a result the way you treated a Person that doesn't belong anywhere When it became a crazy person you changed how you behave to that person a Person changed When you look at jigglerousence when you call him jigglerousence meaning is a bad boy The boy changed Instead of the boy being someone that has different kind of behavior. He became the behavior We changed When we change the meaning of our language Changed when we said me watch me what you mean. Thank you a lot of people will tell you me what you mean. Thank you It does not mean. Thank you It means he gives we receive and I'll ask you When you hear the word Miigwetch What do you what do you think is the difference when vice a Miigwetch it means he gives we receive that's what Miigwetch means What's the difference between Miigwetch means? Thank you And Miigwetch he gives we receive Is there a difference? There was a time when I related to thank you But then I heard The idea that was not if I say Miigwetch to you I'm not addressing you I'm recognizing That it's the creator who provided So like I'm directing the Miigwetch to you, but I'm actually recognizing that Creator how to part Whatever it is we were So how does that change you? How does it change you? How does it change my behavior expectations and so it's it's hard for me to I'm not really explained, but I got I'm shifting The understanding that it was something that you did as a person To recognizing that Creator how to roll So that's that that's how it changes me like a So you're acknowledging the abundance of creation Rather than the abundance of the person Yeah, yeah, I guess ultimately I'm I'm respecting Where it is I should be respecting as opposed to the act of an individual. Yeah So there is a very definite The other one is the one that is most profound a lot of times too is The word on England up When you a lot of people say that there is no word we don't really have any word for goodbye But the really old people used to always say before they parted they say I didn't want to I didn't want to I didn't want to mean But you've already accepted The next time you see each other might not be here It might be over that You've already accepted that so that when when you just do part trails You've already accepted that so it's okay. You've already Acknowledged that yeah, I guess the next time I'm gonna see him is gonna be over that so they there is In a sense, no word for goodbye because there is no goodbye Except that the other guy's gonna have a different address for That's what that signifies so a lot of times when I hear that Like people used to use it in ceremony even in the circles or I started to use that in my circle I didn't want to and the guys said, you know, I feel different all day when I say that And I said well, that's what it's meant to do. It's meant to be a very spiritual understanding my spiritual acceptance Somebody's running this boat and not you You know, that's basically what it is. So the understanding of the language and To to be able to use it the way we used to use a long time ago before we Understood another language It changes. It seems to change your life It's changed mine anyway for sure because the way that I I Look at even what I drive is that what I drive is really not mine Something my creation gave me a chance to be able to find a way to have that to be able to use it to drive somewhere But it's not mine because I certainly ain't going to take it with me when I leave So it changes your it changes your thoughts Yeah, I have heard you speaking in another place before and this conversation is reminding me of I don't remember Where it was you were speaking? But you were talking about passing of Sema and at some point You had said the old ones would never have used their left hand and you related it to warrior society Yeah, well a militia a Lot of our spiritual experience came from militia having a war with each other It was it wasn't about dying. It wasn't about killing. It was a spiritual involvement of the being You fought with your enemy as you chose the Apache used to honor Certain people that were very very very good warriors and they used to put Medicine down their kind of medicine for this being because this being was going to be teaching a lot of young people Young warriors because he was so good a lot of young Apaches were going to become very good warriors Because this man was there and these warriors would live a long time So it had a lot to do with spirituality spiritual being It wasn't that it was violent it was It was a fact that it built you to be able to go into that next world to be able to be whole So that's basically the teaching there because the traditions I went with that was to When you offer tobacco with your left you are showing that you don't have a Spill you don't have a shield so that I you know that that person touch trust you When you're handing out tobacco or receiving tobacco at the right you're showing you don't have a knife in your hand so you know you that person's not gonna hurt you because he's Had to do with The same thing with the European people that were in war They used to lift up their lift up their shields on your on your helmets To acknowledge and show each other their eyes to acknowledge each other they show their eyes So they don't wear a helmet no more, but they still that's where I come from The old way of lifting up their help lifting up their face plate a lot of our traditions come from militia The way that we say that women can't shouldn't be touching our stuff when we when we when they're under time a woman Is on this world to give life a man is on this world to take life to be able to feed your family You have to take life to be able to protect your family you have to take life So a man's job is to take that's why your eyesight is good and your eyesight is really good Is to be able to protect your your strong Protector a woman she's a nurturer She's been put together to bring life into this world and to And to nurture life to feed her child to change her child to be able to hear the child She got super hearing so she can hear her child when her child needs She will wait to hear her Hearing the superior to a man as man won't even hear nothing and just roll over to sleep and the woman said oh my baby's crying so they're two different ways of Expressing life two different ways of experiencing life Man and woman a woman is is there to give life and to bring life into this world to work in partnership with god She's built in such a way that her hips spread and everything to bring life into this world a man Man could never survive. He's not built Every human being that comes into this world Comes through a woman to be in this world So when a man is supposed to protect life and to to take life to be able to protect family His weapons his tools everything has to be top shape his spheres His bow and arrows his knives his canoe his snowshoes His quivers his clothes have to be in top shape to be able to look after his family A woman who gives life when they touch the tools Her gift of giving life is stronger than a man's love to give life to take life So when she does that she neutralizes his power because the power to protect life and to give life is stronger Than to take life. So that is why Women should not be touching man's things because they have both different reasons To be able to do what they have to do Sometimes guy will say no, you shouldn't be coming here because you you're on your time Says it in such a way almost to make it look like a woman's dirty when she's on her time. It's not that at all. It's because I've got teacher a woman has a way of a different way expressing life When you take a garbage out to the road That's the chore when your wife observes you taking garbage out bring it to the road to her It's an act of love. Oh, he loves me. He's taking garbage out. He loves his family To you you're a man, you don't To a woman it's a totally different thing a woman Has a very a very close relationship to Processing when a woman comes to you and said well that man he He called me a stupid And that man he just made me really mad when he did that and he hurt me and you were mad and you said well I'll fucking fix him. Let me out. Who is it? No, no, no, no, I was just processing honey. Take it easy. A man doesn't know that a man doesn't know how to process He knows how to fix things. He's broken. I'm gonna go pixel. That's the two things The two things you learn, you know, we learned that in in our group And white battering is Some of the things we talk about in that group a guy'll say well, you know, I'm a very possessive person, you know, and Sometimes I say some really mean things to my partner And that that tobacco is bringing that feeling out and that pipe is bringing out that feeling. I won't talk about that You know talk about that. He says, you know, that's that's how I am and that's how I was raised I was raised in a very violent way and I know that's not right. So when he opens up and everything In a conventional western treatment program healing program Everybody is required to talk if you don't share in two weeks, you're out of there and say get out You're not you're not provided. You're not producing here. Come back when you're ready In a program that we try to do with the medicines and everything When you open the door to something that's bothering you you're not only healing yourself and opening your door You're opening everybody's door because everybody's listening to everybody can relate to what you're talking Because the medicine's in the pipe. You're open. You've opened up your mind. You've opened up your ears You've opened up your eyes. So when a guy says, you know, uh, yeah, I am kind of possessive, you know When somebody looks at my woman, I get really freaking pissed off Another guy says, well, yeah, I'm the same way. How do you change that? See when you talk Not everybody has to talk. There's some of us that talk. There's some of us that Learn by keeping point. Nobody is told to leave that group when you start to misbehave or start to behave in a different manner in a circle in treatment You're thrown out of the group because you're disrupting you're disrupting the group In a circle where there's pipe and medicines When you start to act out the persecutor is well, he There you go. He's starting to heal. He's starting to think it's safe to open up. I'm going to let him do that Because what he's talking about the way he's behaving He's affecting the whole group. The whole group has to change because he's forcing the change Because if you're if you're going to look at it the other way where say you're taking medicine for to cure cancer and one of the symptoms of Your medicine working is your hair starts to fall out and your skin starts to scab So how would you feel if they threw you out because your hair started to fall out because you know the cancer the cancer medicine started to work Your cancer is healed because the way that cancer is healing the way that shows that is your hair started to fall out It shows that you're starting to heal. So how would you feel is oh, geez your hair is falling out get out of here That basically is almost you're the same the same thing To a person that's acting out In a group and he's starting to heal inside So you want that person to be in and say hey hold Keep going Give me some more of that Let's see what this group that's how I had to understand that some of the challenges you were asking, you know that You have to Literally think backwards to the way you're taught In training you literally have to think backwards. One guy's shutting up. He's not saying anything But you can tell he's reacting because you can see it in his eyes. He's Pretty nervous Everybody knows he can't eat because he's got the pipe there. So he's just what he's hanging around for dear life You know because he's he's feeling that he's he's participating But it's the only thing he's not from him. It's from him. So you learn those things You say wow if you if you would have been in my treatment program in rainbow lives I would have had the tourist guy out Yeah, so the behavior to treatment is different the behavior to healing is different the behavior to Like almost the shinobi people because they think in pictures we have a whole different response to Program when uh, if you're in an anger management program, what they call anger management If you're thinking about it in Ojibwe There is no such thing as anger management. No such thing. It cannot be totally totally Impossible to be thinking about anger management because if you're managing anger Trying to manage anger. You're taking away one of your greatest gifts Anger is a gift if it wasn't you wouldn't be having you understand. Yeah, so when when you're uh, when you're Looking at someone and saying okay. Well, he's very angry And so forth when I was working with the kids doing circles with kids I've never seen anybody come to me one of the little kids come to me says I came to your program because I think I've got a problem with anger. I never seen that what I always saw was Kids coming to my program because somebody did not know how to put up with their anger It was the hado somewhere that had a problem not the kid The kid was very well able to express how he was feeling pissed off About what's happening to him. The only thing is the parent or the hado did not understand what this guy was trying to show So when I did the anger management program when when you're looking at usual training of anger management, you're looking at pause response and You're looking at Stimuli stimuli pause response. That is what you're looking at in a violent form your reflex memory To stimulus speeds up from five hundreds of a second to two hundreds of a second That's how fast your response to Anger is or stimuli. I mean what I had to do In order to work with kids is figure out how to slow down the stimuli the Response to stimuli how to slow that down to its original Speed instead of about two hundreds of a second. I just Slow it down to two hundreds of a second. So they had still had the choice of how to react to the stimuli So in other words, I had to find out for myself. I had to find out that there's stimulus stimuli pause response But the thing is different with mishna other people because it's stimuli pause response Review because there is a review 99% of our people are in prison because of the review. See I walk into you someplace I have a top with you and we get into an argument we get into an argument we get into literally almost a fight Okay, we're both sober. We don't want to hurt each other. We're taking with our minds and everything And we we walk away one of us walks away. So fuck. I should have fucking I should have fucking told that And the next thing, you know, you have a drink because you're pissed off. So you have a couple of drinks What happens when you run into the guy again? Yeah, you're still mad But this time you're going to do something But you got to you got the courage you got the courage in your in your tummy there So you're going to you're going to respond. So 99% of the guys are in prison because they've gotten into a fight when they're drinking alcohol was about What we do as Anishinaabe people is we think in words. If you're a speaker of Ojibwe language a lot of times you're only even if you're just an Anishinaabe person with the astrophagnol, astrophis, an atavistic knowledge of Being able to speak in word, in word, in pictures. Anytime you speak a person can literally picture what you're saying in Ojibwe because our whole language is all in pictures When I say a dog is just falling up there, you know, and everything I say like dog is just I don't know if it's just laying there, but in Ojibwe you say It's like the dog is just Likeless Just threw himself it looked like somebody just threw him there and that's what you're saying in Ojibwe So if you speak Ojibwe, you say Picture comes right immediately into your mind. You've spoken pictures And you laugh because that's exactly what I got looks like What you're just going to say So we're great. We're great at being able to talk in pictures when you are addicted to pain And you're a young guy what you usually do is you always paint pictures if you're addicted to pain you'll see What happens a lot of these guys is they're in prison And they can't find some they can't get a hold of their Anybody in their home. They can't hold them get a hold of their partner You've asked to use the phone. They can't get a hold of their partner So first thing they come to their mind is there in a place where they've got no control over anything And they think well geez, you know, I wonder if she's I wonder if she's gone somewhere. I wonder if she's gonna party Respond at night Afternoon is I bet you she's gonna party next, you know, they say one I bet she's gone partying with so-and-so So what they do is they come to the phone. They ask if they're gonna use the phone again And the person will say yeah, okay. Well use the phone but make make it fast So they'll be on the phone and Oh, yeah, she's home. Just actually she answers. Well, hi, hon. How are you doing? Where were you? And she said, oh, I was up with my aunts. Oh, yeah, okay Hey, let me talk to one of the kids Hi honey. Gee, daddy misses you. Yes I hear you guys went home last night I know you went Where were you? No, we were at uh down at downtown Yeah, who was all there the kid becomes the messenger to The picture this guy wants to paint So the more displacement and the more hurt he puts into this picture The more his body builds up second himself right out Pictures come into his mind hurt being with somebody else and uh Oh, it's starting to hurt just perfect now. Oh And he paints it more even more what they're in the bedroom. Oh my god It's starting to hurt just right So he keeps on really really doing it. He finds a picture that's going through his mind as perfect So what he does is he plays it and it rewinds it plays again Rewinds it plays again. It goes right into the pain that he wants to experience Okay, he's getting his rocks off with his pain pictures pain So there he goes next thing you know, he's got to act out the feeling is happy So he hits the brew that's being made inside the prison And uh Then the next thing you know, he's going through this Breaking up with his woman and everything Just me I come along put my circle put him in my circle And I said, hey, how you doing? I don't want to talk right now. Oh There we go. There's what's going on. Ah, I think that just ain't good. I don't want to I don't want to talk about That's oh, yeah, so I said well, you know Um, probably you'll you'll probably really enjoy this next thing I'm going to talk about and I talk about what I just Talked about That really fucking pisses me off. Why don't you talk about something else? This is uh You tell me something when you're out there with your woman. You mess around once in a while. Yeah. Well, yeah, I did Yeah, but that's different. I said, no, no, it is Jesus. I'll tell you what, you know, I said, isn't payback a fucking bitch though And the guys the guys they respond to that you see well, you know I actually almost thought you were talking about me. Were you talking about him? I said, no, no I'm talking about the symptom symptomology of possessiveness. I'm talking about The symptomology of an addict Trying to control something that he cannot control. He does not know that he does not control Except he thinks he can control He's inside here in prison trying to control behavior. That's happening outside of prison. How fucking insane is that? Yeah, that is fucking stupid, isn't it? So The program gets starting to rip and the guys are starting to say yeah, well, I don't know man I I get pissed off sometimes too, but uh, yeah I don't get that pissed off. I just go get even and say why you got a boyfriend in you So sometimes our our conversations get pretty pretty hyper ready with him, but there's the medicines There's the pipe and most of the guys it's okay. Well, I don't cruel I think because I have respect for the pipe I have respect for the other guys here It's been what 21 years in that group. I've never had an incident. I get guys jumping up and hitting the wall I was okay, let it out man. Let it up You know, but the guy goes back and he's you know, it's calm street You know, did you ever see that movie once for warriors? No, I gotta get a whole lot of movie I want to show you to tell exactly what I'm talking. I'll get that movie They almost they tried to fire me from Rainbow Lodge because I used that movie And uh, my supervisor told me you're fired Talked to the director right now the director called me in his office. He said here you're showing a very violent movie Yeah, I was Do I know anything about do I know that book do I know that movie? I says, I don't know. I said be able to watch my sororities He said no, he says you want to go try you want to watch it at home? Yeah He says I'd like to watch that because somebody really really didn't want you watching showing that in the film So he took it home You know I'm going to go to the board about this. I you should be fired Okay, I go to the board So you took it to the board One of the Ronnie walkie-gees he was the chief at the time One of the best chiefs they ever had in wiki and he said and he I guess he uh, they went and seen him and he said well You know, it's been a totally different program since the only bob took over and there's been a lot of guys that sobered up Since he's been here. I would have to go and see and talk to him myself So he came and looked for me and he says what's going on with the movie? He's ready. How come you're showing that it's what I said is what the best trigger film I've ever seen as especially when you Smite down Smite yourself one of our biggest problems among among our people Is how we treat our women and how our women treats us? And I said so I use that as a trigger film because it shows Exactly how we are in personations some of us And how some of us behave Yeah, I see yeah So why why are you traumatizing these when every other? treatment program and later program They really really watch that they don't traumatize anybody and I said I said I know that That's what you're going in the wrong direction in order to be able to help somebody you have to walk them through the trauma Be there to walk them through that trauma because of your guy guarding them from that trauma The next time they run into our trauma And run into that trigger thing on the in the community What happens to them is while they go crazy as yeah Because there's nobody around that knows what's happening to them to be able to talk them through that I said so it's one of the most true one of the most influential programs Movies that I've ever seen It's the best thing I've ever seen melon and I said that's why they get to see and I said then they Look at and it's all they smoke, you know, I've done that The women said that fucking bastard You know, I've had that happen to me And It really freaking opens guys rich And I'm there to to make sure that they're going to be okay because people The big deal was you got to put these guys through the program, but you got to make sure you don't traumatize anybody Because you promised you hit them you hurt them spiritually Your spirit cannot be hurt if your mind can heal So they hung on to me and told me to to continue using the program And they said why do you have the sacred fire says to help these people that could traumatize taken for the sacred fire This is I'm doing things that were done 300 years ago I said we didn't have people traumatized 300 years Because they had a sacred fire to go to and that's why we so after that Nowadays well at least 10 years ago. Anyway, this happened about 1993 but I almost lost my job When it first came out 1994 From that time on So about six months later To a year later every treatment center in Ontario was using that as a trigger even non-native people are using So that's one of the first people I was using Because I saw there we go that's what I've been looking for All right, I don't know. Yeah, I might be off topic again. Well It's funny because like that kind of impact that ongoing impact That we all have is kind of captured in the next question Because the next question talks about Talks about vision like you had the vision to use this This video in a good way So same thing What is your vision for indigenous education over the last 10 years? I think a lot of people that are heading in that direction now I don't think I'd be the only one doing that but I saw as an example 150,000 kids having their language taken away from them and I saw 150,000 kids being taught how to hurt people because The way that the army trains killers In the army they use discipline and they use discipline with our love They use discipline in a very harsh way you follow the command under no circumstances Do you disobey it makes you separate from your spirit to be able to do something that's totally Alien to you. So that's how our kids were being taught Discipline with our love the other part was Correction through shame you should be ashamed of yourself. You're going to go to hell You should be ashamed of yourself because If you leave here And go back to your parents who are nothing but drunks and even that's what we're going to send you 150,000 kids came back Became idle and raised their kids correction through shame. You should be ashamed of yourself We never knew that word before that you should be ashamed of yourself You never used that so on top of that you had 150,000 kids that walked away from their language picked up a language that was about 500 years old With seven different languages in it. He used seven and about seven other different languages to put that English together It wasn't a pure language And They were still using they're still learning how to use the new words that had been put into our language We had a language that was 13 000 years old that the youngest that could have been 13 000 years of knowledge as you're trying to embed it right into that language Saying things that you could not say in translation that had total total meaning you had The understanding of respect the understanding of how to use energy We lived in ceremony like me. I was raised in ceremony I couldn't whistle after dark my god mother used to say Unless you want to call somebody after you you don't whistle I'm kidding. I don't want to see that big gun man You don't catch me whistle. We're yelling outside after dark Don't sing while you're eating unless you want to give your food away to the spirits No, I don't think so because when you're singing that means you're inviting the spirits to eat with you We're going to eat what's in front of you and what you're going to eat is Food that's had the spirit taken out of it because the spirits have taken the spirit of it So you don't so you're you're literally living in ceremony because eating is part of the ceremony because Jeeb al-Qua, the word cook in her language what they use the word cook Jeeb al-Qua, Jeeb al-Qua means preparation for spirits as what Jeeb al-Qua means That's the preparation for ghosts Preparation for the dead That's what Jeeb al-Qua means So you're cooking in preparation of feeding disciplines The dead ones So you're living in ceremony even when you're cooking. It's a ceremony what you're doing In your eating, it's a ceremony that you're doing you're breaking you're breaking your fast When you eat the act of hunting You pray You stop and pray before you shoot You shoot so you don't you don't hurt the animal You don't abuse that animal Again when you're skinning the deer or the moose or whatever animal you're cooking you pray again It's the spirit of this Again when you're cooking you pray again Again before you eat you say ah so admission You pray four times before you actually ingest that That's true After you finish eating it was my job after we finish eating to go and take the bones outside Put them in a tree So the other animals could come and pick on them pick at them and feed themselves have respect for those bones But the animals see you have respect for their bones They won't they're not going to be afraid to come to you when you're hungry don't come to you Those are all ceremonies the way that they raise me to live So that's how that's how I was raised To live in ceremony to to pray to speak Uh when I was uh gathering uh Hauling water Again, you're living in spirit You're taught that water becomes pure When you put it aside and you pray to Your water is becoming pure your um, you know, it's uh It's not so much That it's it's not so much that you're stopping to do all this stuff. You're you're praying as you're going through this You're in ceremony as you're going through your everyday thing You're um when you're picking blueberries You're learning about four different things when you pick blueberries You're learning to be still And you're learning to have to be persevered You're under a hot sun in your picking berries You're learning patience because there's a big basket here and you're picking little bit at a time So you're learning perseverance of patience You're learning how to look for better things in life as you're trying to find a really good patch Where you're picking more of a pasture So you're learning to look for better things in your life Subliminally, you're doing all this in your subconscious You're learning all these things So you're living in ceremony even when you're picking berries picking different kind of You know medicine when you're picking medicines you're taught that you have to pray before you touch their medicines And you're taught to pray to them and you're saying you were put here Creator put you here to look after me to look after the people all my relations you're told You're given that message to look after us So i'm asking you now to look after us You're speaking directly to those plants and you know that you pray for them and you know that you're going to look after them No questions or nothing you know they're going to look after them And that's how you're Past your day because it doesn't seem like you're doing any better until you get older and you say oh the cow I don't need to go to ceremonies. I lived in ceremony. You know my grandmother I don't know if you've you've learned this before through other people maybe art But uh nishinaabe that's who we are and um We become part of the big secret nishinaabe in our language means uh Man lowered here From the stars That's the nishinaabe means The original way of saying that was nishinaabe niece Nabe We come from the stars That is what that name implies So you're a great grandmother my grandmother When she heard thunder and she saw a lightning flashing and Heard that thunder she used to run for tobacco tobacco in the fire and pray Because she thought that was her relatives coming back to look for Because that's what she was told By other people that said when uh when when when our people come back to look for us You're going to hear that see that bright light And you're going to hear that sound of that uh that flying that flying house that flying machine You're going to hear that Be allowed noise when it comes into our space It's going to be a big flash Then you know our people are coming to get us So whenever she uh Heard the lightning she oh They'd make tobacco Thousands of years before when those relatives left us here That's what they told us you'll know we're coming and this is how you'll know we're coming So all these times all these years people Prayed they knew that they hadn't been abandoned here. They knew that somebody's going to come look for us Uh 21 years old when they jumped aboard that big flying saucer and I knew that I'm going to die I'm going to see before I die I've already seen one, but it wasn't too big I've seen three flying saucers With bobby and bronzy I saw three flying saucers coming out of the other one where the triangle kind of Yeah, so that's uh We became part of the cover-up UFOs have been covered up for years and years the government knows about the many things So that's why they don't ever Want us to be able to name who we are If the government always chooses what we're going to be called We were called natives Indian Aboriginal now we're called indigenous It wasn't us that chose that name As long as you don't call yourself the schnader That's that's why Most people don't even understand what shogunash means. We call the white people shogunash Those from offshore That's how we That's how we call them Those from offshore But very few people know what that word means in shogunash It's that We have those names for they even Wemtigwush Wemtigwush means uh A long time ago when the Jesuits were trying to teach our people about God They come too close to a village and Jesuits would be traveling by canoeing and they'd uh They'd see a village up ahead So one of them would go up in the front of the canoe and stand there and wave a cross Wave a wooden cross They talked about if you know, we let them see the cross. We don't know we come in peace So they're about to hurt us So one of them would stand out there and wave that cross And they were French, French Jesuits So we'd look out and we'd see that canoe coming there. We'd see that funny guy standing up the front waving a stick He's waving away. He's waving a stick there. So that's what we call them Labors of the stick. So for this day Wemtigwush, which means we're waivers of the stick That's what we call French people waivers of the stick It's funny how things happening. Yeah. Oh, yeah so a lot of A lot of those things can be done within 10 years Do you reckon? I don't know Ask you a question How do you Discipline yourself or can you or do you Teach yourself how to hold a nine to five job? Like generally or like me as a person generally it's like It's just the ideas embedded I think once you're old enough to understand possibility what you could do After the fruits of that labor, I guess Because uh, I get it depends on the person really like the The group of people I grew up with would be more Not money interested As a motivation, but I'm doing this because this is what I do It's not it's not a job You know, okay, but this is this is a role I can do and I'm good at it Like right now if it was possible, I would do what I do for free other people are motivated by The four-car garage and you know, it's a it's a personal thing, right? It's like it's the same reason why I sent Selena on a two-month canoe trip I figure anybody could do something For 30 days every day It changed her lives And you'll never ever be the same again and I Got it to do it two ten two times 30 days I didn't do that but I mean I put her I put her and I left her kind of Vulnerable to be able to do it because she had to Okay, I took her away from Telephone took her away from That thing there took her away from that thing over there Put her into a place where she had to think Because when you're in the front of a canoe or in the back of a canoe you're alone Because if you're in the back of the canoe the person's back is turned to you and you're in the front of the canoe You're back is turned to the other person You're totally alone I try to be able to simulate or imitate what I've been through I try to give my kids what my grandfather did enough knowledge to be able to write my name To be able to do something the reason I the reason I asked that And you asked you answered the question Pretty well How I saw you you answered the question how I've saw you how I've seen you since I first Ever laid eyes on you When I first laid eyes on you I didn't know you were my child, but I knew you were uh A really great person and I was proud to be able to say hi to you I don't know what it was. It was just a totally extra big special thing that I found out was you were my John because I never I never knew you were even alive anymore Like I heard that you died But from the first time I saw you you were different Than anybody else, you know The way that you the energy that you had the way that you held yourself the way you responded you were Everything that it probably ever won in a child and I like you I didn't I didn't know who you were. I like you and um You didn't seem like a nine to five. Does that make sense to you? You didn't seem like a nine to five And you didn't seem to care about impressing anybody but yourself You were very very very Centered with your kids It was unbelievable things. I went through when I did find out I was shocked because like I said even ca s. I told me you died and I thought wow, how could that be How could how could how could uh, how could chast be my kid? He's gone because it takes you a while to Even when you're drinking it takes you a long time to To let go of something and um to visualize It was it was actually paula fita first. I think I told you that fita told me I think I knew kid in town could be your kid And I said oh, yeah, I kind of blew her away because no that's impossible How could that be And then I guess fita talked to paula and paula. She's very very observant and um She we were a christmas. I think was a christmas party at this complex paula was there and uh, she saw you crossing the floor and she says you know That is your boy. I said, ah So no, no, that's your boy. I said, what makes you say that anyways maddie What makes you say that anyway? And she says well, she says all your kids walk the same way you do She said bronson james, even though he's not yours to bronson And lori for for for sure They both walk the same way and she says even the ones that aren't your kids that you raised they walk like And I said, yeah, she said yeah, she said that's your son. I don't know but I believed her I said, oh that's that's strange. So that's when we I think it was a little a little time after that we started talking about then I started to understand Yeah, somebody lied to me. But that's where the nine to five thing comes in. You're not a nine to five And I was so sure that I'm training a person without your money paula. She just signed up a person She she one of her downlines was going to quit on her yesterday And that person took another look at her uh her program That she's on in here And she decided she's going to stay on but She's so sure of it now. She's going to sign somebody else on so all the training I put into holly is starting to come into Provision because I told holly you're not a nine to five I said and you're not meant to be paid by the hour I said you're meant to have freedom in your life. And I said I can teach you how to do that So she's on her way Yeah, because it'll uh, it'll uh, it'll give me residual income If I can train people like that About three four other people like that. I'll have residual income I'll replace my income within another year. Okay I'll be able to Go live in mexico Where the real medicine is So that's why that's why I said when you talk more 10 years It depends on where people are going to start Like our reserve Our reserve is so far into the left side. Do they ever want to do that? They can't see what I see Maybe some of them can see what I see, but don't forget. I was raised in it Raised in ceremony and I've uh, I've got a pretty good education. Great. It's not bad Yeah, I've done more with great aid than most people have done with I've put them in college in college, you call me, just in the studying that I've done, the books I've read Unbelievable. Uh, to be able to find out about uh, Treatment and how to how to be able to go in the opposite direction in treatment to have that faith to do that I took at least 10 uh, 10 psychology books Reading, reading, and I went back to have that courage to be able to do it. And plus the teachings of my grandfather you know to That's why I'm trying to put that book together. I'll give you some example of something. I got some over here Just to give you an idea Remembering the dream they say that when we are on mother earth, we are actually Experiencing everything in a dream. So when we dream we are in a dream within a dream My first recollection of my dream was in a trappers cabin I must have been two and a half years old I was sitting in a cabin in the glow of a lamp light My grandma was making muckasins and telling me a story It was wintertime and very cold inside The smell of wood burning in the stove and the sweet smell of smoke Ten leather is forever ingrained in my mind in my memory And also the howling of the wolves talking to the moon Help me help make the cabin feel safe and cozy My life at the time was very simple and exciting Some evening my grandma my grandpa came in the cabin in the evening driving daylight Diving daylight, okay, and sometimes I came he came in after dark As I stated earlier, I was two and a half years old and I already had a routine and a menu for each day my day started by Putting on my foot my footwear and going outside to check on the weather every morning because that's what my grandpa did I was having a wonderful life with my grandparents and my dog pal When you are small and the two people is all you're aware of you don't miss anyone And the three of you plus dog is all you know, you're never lonely or bored As I said earlier life is exciting. I had a routine. I was two and a half years old and I dressed myself I had my custom made grandma woolen socks custom made thick woolen cap and scarf my winter boots Were it with snap-shut buckles that fit perfect Wool pants with suspenders Winter jacket made out of smoke tan leather Deers hide lined with fox fur or rabbit fur custom pitted long johns My grandma said the clothes had to fit right so that they would be warm When we traveled I was spitted into a beaver fur homemade bag I was better equipped than just about any Anyone whose picture I saw much later on in the kids magazine and Eaton's catalog I had two toys a homemade soft doll that I shared with My custom made bed and a homemade Airplane made out of wood birch bark and cord cardboard I had a little cover with my emergency rations custom made of course They contain raisins hard candy maple sugar hard candy a big can of honey and apples My travel sleigh was made of seasoned dry cedar with ash runners for speed It also came with a dog harness so pal could pull me on the ice I also had my own Miniature acts just like grandpa's I don't remember But my grandma told me that I had told her that I had to have an axe so I could help split wood Two and a half years For the trapping season we lived in a trappers cabin in Shackwall Lake at the time I knew the area as a Chicago mall And on end of the lake Our cabin was a log cabin about 16 feet by 20 feet and it Had one room a very homey comfortable place to hang out I had a little bed. I must have been five feet long and three feet wide It was laid out with feather mattress and a feather blanket with a woolen top cover I didn't know it at the time, but I was a very comfortable and safe kid and my grandparents were sober Hardworking people I don't know how lucky I was because drunkenness and alcoholism was the identity of my people at the time We weren't allowed out to reserve to work or allowed to hunt or on most reserves My grandparents weren't what you were considered civilized Which meant they still looked at the land as theirs and no one had the right to tell them where to live will work And really no one had the right to own land, but here put here by the creator Yeah Some place some place will be different I see a lot of our natural resources are going to be going from the reserve I I didn't believe I was somebody told me that they're Selling a pickerel on the reserve. I didn't believe I'd done a walk in the bobby's zone Yeah, we're selling pickerel in the reserve. So and then when uh It was uh one of my white friends That was telling me that bobby had taken 24 pickerel in a week out of out of vervein river vervein river goods taken a net and taken 5400 over 2400 people I said that's that's impossible. I said how could people how could the people are not and allow him to do something Holy catfish How did my grandkids been learned how to fish? My grandkids will never know what it feels like to go and catch a pickerel with a spear and sit by the campfire and cook because it wasn't fucking asshole I think we're done Yeah Yeah, we covered a lot of a lot of ground there At first I thought oh this looks like we're gonna be done in like 40 minutes We got into some good some good sharings there for sure. So thank you