 The BDNF increases creative expression. BDNF is brain-derived, notropic factor. We all hear a million times that the only thing that matters is right now, the now moment, the zero point. When you're creative, you're in the zero point. Every notropic is enhancing BDNF. Fasting is huge for BDNF. If the key is enhancing creative flow or creative expression, then what do we do in combination to enhance that so that we can live in that state, the zero point at all times in our life? Fasting, BDNF enhancing agents, red light, cold plunging, exercise sleep, exercise, deep restorative sleep. Yeah, I mean, there's no question that we can use all these new tools and tactics to live in the now point. Oh man, you watch the movie Limitless, where the guy takes a pill and gets super smart. Today's episode, we talk about peptides that actually do that, how to use them, where to get them, great episode. By the way, if you wanna see if peptides are right for you, go work with a doctor. Go see the experts at MPhormones.com, work with a doctor, get some labs done, and get peptides made in a pharmacy. See about maximizing your progress, fat burning, muscle building, longevity, but do it again, do it with a doctor. We've already worked with them, they're great. MPhormones.com, go check it out. Anyway, here's today's giveaway. We're gonna give away the MAPS Super Bundle. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We're also running a sale right now, MAPS Cardio, half off. The Shredded Summer Bundle of Programs, half off. And the Bikini Bundle of Programs is also half off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. All right, Jay, we had so much fun with you on the last podcast, we had to do another one. We're gonna follow it back. We talked about peptides and longevity and that was kind of supposed to be the focus. We went off in some rabbit holes, but it was a lot of fun. I wanted to talk to you about peptides for cognitive performance, brain function. There's a few of these that I started using myself. I noticed some pretty profound effects. So let's get into that whole space and kind of what, how peptides can target cognitive performance or what that whole category of neutropics would even mean. Yeah, for sure. And again, thank you guys for the first episode. It was amazing. Grateful to be back here again today to talk. So it's interesting. I think peptides, if you really start looking at them from like a clinical perspective, people are pretty well aware now of the healing capacity of peptides, the fat loss and the muscle gain capacity. I know on our first podcast, we also talked about the life extension and of course now in the age of the bio weapon, immunity enhancement too. But for neutropics, there's a lot of peptides. And I know you guys are old school and that you go back to like the race of Tams and all the stuff that was out there before peptides, talking about cognitive enhancement. And so there was a lot of stuff out there. And as I told you guys on the last podcast, I kind of, for my qualitative and comparative line in the sand, it's metaphano. Like what does something produce relative to like, what does metaphano at 50 to 100 milligrams produce? And so in my personal experience, I really haven't had the profound effects that a lot of my friends, some of you guys, of course, also mentioned on the first podcast. I know you, Sal, you talked about dihexa that others get. So I think we're all biochemically unique, but to talk about neutropics, you know, from a peptide standpoint, we probably should start with dihexa. The interesting thing is, and we didn't really talk about this on the first show and we probably should mention it is most peptides from a highest impact delivery system are injected, right? They're subcutaneously injected, you know, people hear needles, oh my God, opt out, right? But like the truth is, is like you're using, you know, they're mostly aqueous based, they're water based, so you're using like an insulin syringe, you know, which a lot of people unfortunately are familiar with diabetics and they're using insulin syringes to inject their insulin, but these are small, you know, microscopic, you know, hyperdermic 31, 32, 30 gauge needles that are like, you know, 5, 16th of an inch. So you don't even feel them. Yeah, you don't feel them, right? So it's like, I always tell people, they're like, bro, I can't inject, I can't do it. I'm like, bro, you inject one time, it becomes like brushing your teeth. So it's not a big deal. But, you know, to say that, to qualitatively say that, the tropic peptides are the one space, you know, in the peptide industry where there are a lot of orals, okay? And there's also intranasal, right? So some of them can be, you know, technically snorted or again, like through an intranasal inhaler or mister. Like Cmax. Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, it's important that we bring that up, right? Because a lot of people I'm telling you, as much as we laugh and say, come on dude, it's just a pin trick, it's a barrier of entry. Yeah, absolutely is, it is. So, you know, it's cool to know that you can use these and not ever really have to inject yourself. Although I will say, the most pronounced effects from Neutropics are still felt injected. Okay, you know, like Cmax, Slank, even Dihexa, from the, you know, if you go on the Reddit forums, which we know are not the best places to get information, but if you go there and you go deep and you drill down, you know, you'll see some of the really advanced users will talk about the difference between intranasal, oral or injected, and everybody talks that the injected version. So those all actually are injectable too. So I could have got Cmax that way. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, and remember too, you know, from a biochemical or, you know, a molecular dynamic standpoint, you know, obviously impact, injection is always gonna be the highest impact because how fast it crosses the brain, right? It's just right there. Yeah, you know, you mentioned the individuality with a lot of these things. You mentioned race attempts. Now those are not peptides. But I do want to bring them up because Peristitum, I believe was probably the first classic Neutropic, it's been around for a long time. For sure. And I remember when I first discovered Peristitum, and I don't like it much. I do notice some effects, but I get this crash and I don't like it. Totally. But I did notice some effects, and I remember introducing it to the guys here. And Justin got a little bit of effect. Doug and Adam, both got headaches. Yeah, right. They hated it. So there definitely is, and I noticed that with other classic Neutropics, you know, that some people get great results with some of them. Other people get terrible results with some of them. So it's one of those things where some are probably gonna work for you and others may not. Doug and Adam are just like me again. I got that. Dude, race stamps are garbage. I remember literally, okay, so another true story. I'm going back and dating myself. So I used to meet Dan Duchain. Oh God, it's the guru. Across the border in Mexico, he mentored me for literally three years. You're kidding me. No. This is the guy that really, if you look at the bodybuilding protocols on fat loss, muscle building. Body opus. Everything. I mean, he's the guy that, he's the first, by the way, he created, he was one of the contributors, the first actual real pre-workout. I've talked about before. That's absolutely true. Ultimate orange is. Yeah, ultimate orange. I still actually have a bottle of ultimate orange. I kept it. No way. I swear to God. I swear to God, yeah. I mean, it's not edible, but it's not how the whole thing. But yeah, and you know, it's funny that you said that because he also had that little pamphlet. So, he was around in the times of the pamphlets. They had the little tiny things that you could buy in the back of the Muscle Magazine. He had ultimate training. And I still have, of course, I have this book, the greatest book probably ever in bodybuilding, which was called Body Opus, Underground Body Opus, which taught you how to back load carbs and front load carbs. He talked about stuff now that everybody's like this. All those things, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was a genius. And a true story, Dan had a huge heart. So, I gotta tell you guys a story. So, how I actually got to mentor under him is he, on one of the underground forums, he put a picture of a bodybuilder who was shredded, you know, from, that he eventually, it's the guy that was on the cover of Body Opus. And he asked if anybody could name this guy, you know, I would give you a prize or an award or whatever, and I instantly like wrote about, you know, I was just in the group that was like reading his writings and it was Hans Hobstocken. And how I knew who that guy was is that he was the owner of Foothill Gym in Monrovia, California, where I was training at. Oh, so it's happened to me. How crazy is that? So anyway, after that, him and I became friends, again, internet friends, and then I finally met him, and this is the truth, at the, oh man, not the rock, what's it called? Hard Rock Restaurant in Tijuana. Oh. Because Dan was living in Mexico. So I would literally cross the border in San Diego and we would sit there, I would, you know, take a cab to Revolution and I would sit there and I would talk to him and him and I would just go deep for three or four hours and he educated me. I was only 27 years old. A lot of people need to realize that these underground bodybuilding coaches or whatever, they were the- Smartest people ever. They were the pioneers. You know, I remember he wrote about or talked about something called DNP, which is very dangerous. DNP. Fat burning compound, very dangerous. I think it's a chemical used in making dynamite. But he, I mean, just brilliant person and unhinged, which- Completely unhinged. Which you kind of want when you're the first person to talk about these kinds of things. So I want to give, you know, just kind of credit where it's due. Yeah, no, absolutely. And Dan was amazing and he taught me so much about everything that I had learned and knew, but it's just, it's hilarious. But, you know, to get back to Neutropics, that's where he was the one that taught me about Parastam. And he literally took me into a pharmacy, you know, right there and we just buy it right over the counter. Know why? I've found a picture, a Polaroid picture the other day of me and him, my mom sent it to me because, you know, they've got still stuff in their basement. And it was, I was holding a box in the picture of the Parastam in the orange. I can't remember. It was the original European, you know, of pharmaceutical manufacturer that had it, but this is so funny. But yeah, so none of those things, that was a good rabbit hole. None of those things did anything for me either, bro. Headache, horrible, literally horrible. But like you said, they're very crude, very rudimentary form of the Neutropic. And now here we are today, you know, fast forward 20 plus years and you have these amazing Neutropic peptides, but getting back to intradasal oral or injectable, injectable is always again gonna be the highest impact. But to talk a little bit about dihexa, as I told you guys, I've taken a heroic dose of dihexa many times, which is 80 milligrams, like 40 is like the highest recommended dose of an oral capsule. You were taking 30, correct? 30, I think I'm doing 30 a day or 20. Yeah, and you feel it, right? And I don't feel anything. You said you don't feel anything. Did you feel it? Oh yeah, I felt it. Okay, so you guys felt it, but what were like, what were the effects? So it took, it was almost cumulative, but after at the end of the week, I'm just sharper memory recall. Memory recall was big for me. Yeah, just, I just feel like I need less sleep. And I don't, it's not because I'm sleeping less, well I am sleeping less, I have an infinite. But all of a sudden I was, I felt like I was sharp, like if I got a good night of rest. So not that it replaced sleep, I could still tell I was tired, but I remember I'd come in here and I'd tell the guys, I'd be like, I feel remark, I would just, my exact words were, I feel remarkably sharp for how little sleep I'm getting right now because we have a baby at home. So that's what I noticed from that, but I'm also combined that with the C-Max. Were you taking it, were you taking it every day? Yeah. It's just right when you woke up. Right, the first thing in the morning. Yeah, first thing in the morning. You're combining it with coffee or caffeine or anything? Yes, I do. I typically would do caffeine because then I'll work out. Yeah, I would be interested to notice, did you guys, did you ever take it without caffeine, Justin? No. I do on the weekends. I go off caffeine on the weekends. So it would be interesting, and I don't know if anyone's ever done any correlations to this, but it would be interesting to see the difference of feeling it versus not being on caffeine versus being on caffeine. And I've heard stories from some people, again, just anecdotally, that there's a synergistic effect. Yeah, I would assume so, right? Because I've heard people call dihexa, say that dihexa was like BDNF, right? Or several times. It does. Or maybe thousands of times more powerful, have a similar effect, right? What does that do? That improves neuroplasticity and learning. Yeah, so yeah, so I mean, and we'll talk about test-offencing and how it expands BDNF, BDNF is brain-derived neotropic factor. And to go back to like a historical standpoint, like when the ancients would talk about going into the wilderness to meditate or to pray, you know, 20 days, 30 days, 40 days or whatever, they were literally going to fast, which massively enhanced BDNF. And the BDNF connection is the quote-unquote connection to source or connection to spirit, you know, connection to divinity, whatever you want to call it, because that's what you feel like, right? You're a faster, ketogenic dieter. I mean, you get through that crossover where the brain starts running on ketones for fuel, you all of a sudden feel, whoa, and as a hardcore faster like myself, I fasted, the longest I've ever fasted without actual food is 76 hours, right? Because like I've written a couple of books on fasting and I was familiar with like Jason Fung's research on fasting and it shows like the best research on the world, and I know peer reviews, nonsense, but you know, if I want to say the science, stress the science, you know, the best research, there are studies done in like Olympic caliber sprinters and without food, what was it, before they started to break down muscle tissue? And it was 73 hours. Yeah, it was about three days. It was 73 hours, right? So it's like, when you hear bros say, oh man, I ate six times a day, bro, I can't go that long, I'm gonna break down muscle, they don't really understand the science or the knowledge of it. Now you just get carved depleted and flat. Exactly. But you don't lose muscle, right? So it's like, if you really learn how to fast and you go, you know, like I was telling you guys that program I got coming called 30 Days to Shreds, if you really understand the metabolic or the mechanics, the biomechanics of fasting combined with all these drugs like peptides that we're talking about and all these new metabolic and couplers that are coming, you can truly get insanely ripped without losing muscle, right? In a very short amount of time, but to not rabbit hole and to, you know, to go back to understanding like what these are doing, I mean, you really truthfully do increase BDNF at about 30 hours and at that 30 hours without food, there's like something that goes on in the brain where you literally feel loopy and you feel loopy for a couple of hours. And you know, again, you know, some of the scientists that researched this and studied this, they talk about like the autophagic and the hormatic, the hormatic process, the chemical biochemical cascade that happens when that really gets really strong is that loopy feeling you're feeling. But like for me, when I fast for like 40 to 44 hours, which I'll do every, usually like once a month, I'll do a weekend, right? I feel that. Like I'm like, I stand up all of a sudden and I'm kind of loosey and lightheaded and kind of like, oh my God, what's going on? And I don't lose, it's not a blood sugar issue. You know, I once thought that that's what it was, but it's the changeover or it's the crossover. So now like your body is like not running on food anymore. It's like running on spirit or, you know, call it energy, call it, you know, catecholamines, whatever it is. Like it's some sort of a cascade, but like the new tropic peptides do do that. Yeah, fast things a natural way to really make. Right, so combine fasting with that. Interesting. And it's like, whoa, accelerates. Now the hexa is being researched for what? Dementia, Alzheimer's, just degenerative disorders of the brain. So all of the, in the studies, and again, we're going to Russia again. So the Russians, especially Dr. Cavanson, they got a lot of research on cerebaliacin, dihexasalank, CMAX, CMAX amidate. So by the way, when you add like amidate or, you know, a couple of the dates and whatever to them, you're extending the efficacy and you're extending the solubility. Oh, okay. So it will last longer from a half-life standpoint in the brain and the body. So that's like why a lot of the research chemical companies are doing that. You'll see that a lot with them now. And then of course, they're also getting around the patents and stuff like that. There really isn't a lot of patents in peptides. Thank God, that's why all of us are able to use them still. But, you know, as we were saying on the first episode, you could see that coming, but... What do you find with the people you work with, with dihexa? The people that are, I don't know, non-responders, they just don't notice it. And the people that do, what do they notice? Is it similar to what I said? Same as you guys. Same as you guys, just, you know, more productive, like juice, you know, just feel like you can get into a flow state a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I've read the, like dosing protocols that vary wildly. Yeah. Like some would say, you know, 25 or 30 milligrams once a week. And then others like no every day. And then I've heard people like you say, oh, I've tried, you know, much higher doses. Well, so I mean, like it's a good comment. I mean, I've seen people like women say they get as great effected five milligrams, you know, of dihexa oral. But I'm like, what? Wow. So again, it's across the board, you know, biochemical individuality, I would assume, you know, and some people just having different genes and receptor sensitivities and whatnot. It's weird. Salank, you know, if we compare and contrast dihexa and salank, I see more people in my experience, personal experience and obviously clients, people I communicate with online and then of course clinicians. I see more people get better results with salank than I get with, when I see with dihex. Okay. So salank is used in, correct me if I'm wrong, they use that also as an enziolytic. Yes. Okay, so anti-anxiety. Yes. Yeah. So I noticed a little bit of that from the C-max and dihex as well. Do they do these new tropics in general? So here's what's interesting to me. Typically what people would consider, although you can't put caffeine in the category of new tropics, but if you tell someone things that make you feel sharper or whatever they think, oh, caffeine. Typically stimulants do the opposite of what an enziolytic will do. They'll make you feel more anxious or jittery or shaky. What I, when I keep reading about these peptide new tropics, many of them boost cognitive function, but also work as an enziolytic, which is very interesting. So it's kind of like a calm focus. It's a different feeling than like a stimulant type of- Well it's because they're not hitting the beta andro-nergic heart system, right? So there's no heart rate elevation or any kind of, what do you call it? It's all in the head. There's no vasculature. So essentially, with the caffeine or any kind of like speedy, again, AMP, alert focus agent or whatever, it's hitting the beta andro-nergic pathway. So it's constricting or opening blood flow. Okay. Now Madafino is a bit of a stimulant, right? It is, but that's also one of those weird, again called a focusing agent where they don't really understand the mechanism of action. Again, it's kind of an alien drug. They started giving it to pilots, I think in the early 70s, you had to fly sorties in Vietnam. Now the one you were raving about on the last podcast towards the end was Tesso Fensin. Tesso Fensin. Okay, so how is that one different from what we just talked about? So again, Tesso Fensin was originally an orphaned drug that was started off as an antidepressant. However, it's not an SSRI, right? So people will hear antidepressant and they're like, oh bro, you're talking about SSRI. It was not an SSRI, but it was orphaned because for whatever reason, and again, it's in my book, and I'm not thinking probably as clearly as I should on why it was orphaned, for whatever reason, big pharma orphans drugs when it's not exactly what they created it for. And then it's let go, and then as you guys know, people discover. It just remains in the book somewhere. Yeah, and then somebody discovers it for something else and they're like, wow. And so, exactly, but Tesso Fensin, they were looking at the weight loss that people were experiencing. Okay. And then they're like, wait a minute. So whenever there's an opportunity, so many fat people like to explore it, and so then they started looking at the trials, and as I was telling you guys, not only does it increase BDNF and do you feel really fired up and amazingly energized. And again, I'm on it right now. And by the way, I only took 250 milligrams of it this morning and I've been taking 500 and I get what I thought was like even a better effect, but today was just 250. I feel it's crazy. I feel the same. And I've had people tell me they're like, oh, you know what? If you're really sensitive to it, you're not going to notice a difference. But from the people that are like sensitive to it where 500 keeps them up a night and they're staring at the ceiling with a smile on their face, because no one will complain about it other than that they can't sleep on it, right? I mean, even the people that would complain and say, dude, I can't take this, I can't sleep on it. They were like, I love this though. Oh my God, I can not stop. You know what I mean? Like I can keep creating, I keep creating. And again, it's because of the BDNF, but when they were looking at the research and the people that were on it for a long time before they orphaned the drug, they noticed the weight loss. Jay, I only comment on that real quick. So I was having a conversation with our friends. We work with the hormone therapy lab that does peptides as well. And I noticed on Dihex, I'm very sensitive to compounds or I notice things when I take them typically. These guys may say I'm a hypochondriac. I think I'm just sensitive. No, you're intuitive. Right, so when I take things I can tell certain things and I message them, I said, do these new tropics make you leaner? And he goes, I mean, some people will say that. And so I said, this is very interesting. So I was starting to do some reading and I came across articles on chess players and in intense games of chess, chess players will burn calories like they're doing a shit ton of cardio. I mean, they're literally sitting there playing chess but their brain is working so hard and the brain can burn a tremendous amount of energy. So my speculation, and I'd love your input on this was that some of these new tropics through the BDNF, through increasing activity in the brain actually boost metabolism through the brain. Not through what we typically think of which would be muscle or the rest of the body but rather through brain activity. How do you, how does that sound to you? So it's 100% true and I'll go a little bit woo on why that is the truth. So at base essence, all we are is energy and frequency, right? As I was telling you guys, we are literally white light. We are biophotonic charges. I mean, that's just true at the base level. Exactly. So, but if we are at base essence energy and frequency and all we are is really consciousness which is mind, right? I mean, if you really want to go deeper you would be like we're the only thing we really are is like the idea of the divine mind separated by will and intention. But when your brain is stimulated like that and you are thinking very deeply and creatively and creating through expression, then yes energetically you are also accelerating your metabolism. Okay, okay. So that's what's happening. Again, the studies on chest players is pretty wild. You could see that. They're burning thousands of calories sitting down. Yeah, exactly. Because they're thinking really hard. Well, I mean, and then you can also look at the people that are riding a car, you know, Formula One, look at those guys. There's no fat guys there. I mean, they're not, they're not exercising. At least they're somewhat, I mean, they're active. Yeah, but the amount that they burn is insane. Yeah, no, but they're in intense heat but their brain is so focused on the road and the competition and everything. So, oh, those guys are massive test-offencing junkies and stimulant junkies and Adderall junkies and all. I was just gonna ask you so of all, because you work with a lot of people. Who are the types of people that are most interested in these new tropic categories of peptides? Where do you find that? It's interesting, I don't really, I don't really have an answer on that. I mean, I definitely know that professional athletes are interested for sure, because again, the grind, the travel, you know, being in a new city, having to have different time zones and all that stuff, they wanna be at their best, but it's a good question. I mean, I think it applies to a lot of different people. Again, depending on your work, depending on your life, depending on what you do. Are you finding these things blowing up? So Silicon Valley, obviously we're right now, we're in Silicon Valley in San Jose and this was the place that popularized micro-dosing, you know, psilocybin and LSD to improve productivity, because they're coding and all that stuff. Are you finding these types of peptides blowing up in particular in areas like this? Kinda, kinda not. I mean, those guys are more into plant medicine and the whole like, you know, DMT spirit, you know, all that kind of stuff, the toad. I mean, it's not that they're not into this, they're always looking for an edge. I mean, the easiest way to quantify it is like who's looking for an edge, right? The people that are looking for an edge, regardless of what industry or niche or vertical or looking at these things, but it's interesting you say that to get back to test-offencing. So when they looked at the research, they saw massive weight loss. Yeah. And they're like, what the hell is going on? So then they start looking at it. And again, as I was telling you guys, and this is the real magic of it, at four months plus usage of it. So again, every day either, you know, again, the clinical studies are showing 0.5, but now there's 0.25, you know, some of the research chemical companies of half the dose, metabolic uncoupling starts happening, right? So metabolic uncoupling is happening from increase in brown adipose tissue, right? Or white tissue, which is again, you know, brown fat, which is obviously increasing resting. Yeah, exactly. And now, am I saying this right, Jay? Resting energy. Yeah, because when we talk about the metabolism and we explain to people boosting metabolism, a lot of people think it's just direct lean body mass, more higher metabolism or less lean body mass, lower metabolism. But there's this like range of more versus less efficient calorie burning with your body, with the same lean body mass. And less efficient means you just burn more energy and you burn it off. That's this metabolic uncoupling that you're talking about. 100%. So it's like, if you look at like, there's three ways to lose body fat, right? Like there's energy, right? I'm sorry, there's movement patterning, which would be lifting weights or doing cardiovascular exercise. It is moving. And then there's the more muscle you have, the more metabolically active you are, the more thermo uncoupling there is. And now there's the third path, which is what we're talking about, where agents that actually stimulate metabolic uncoupling, right? And they can do that through, again, increasing white, brown, brown anti-post tissue white fat, which again is the highest energy expenditure fat in the body, which, you know, again, again is increasing metabolic uncoupling from just taking the supplement. So those are like the three ways. And that's why I was telling you guys that now we're in a place where we weren't four years ago where you can take these agents, you can build muscle, do your cardio, and also, again, through your genetics or through how much muscle you have on your body, burn fat in three different ways. Wow, interesting. How does that measure up with, you know, the last time we talked, I asked about the peptide in relation to the infrared. And we talked to them about that, pairing those together. You bring up white and brown fat right away. My brain goes to the cold plunge. Absolutely. All those things now will play a role. So that's what I'm saying. And I'm not even, so in my 30 days, we talk about doing red light and we talk about doing cold showers and stuff like that, you know, which is obviously a thermogenesis through shivering, right? Through cold, increasing it that way. But yeah, you can throw those in too. So I mean, if you combine all of those things, there's never ever, at least again in this current era I've been in a time where people can lose body fat so efficiently and preserve muscle mass. Because you guys, we're all bros, right? At base essence, we're all bros, you know? And we all understand that if you're gonna lose body fat, you have to preserve muscle at all costs, you know? And a lot of people lose sight of that. So it's like, you know, in the audience, there's people out there like, oh, I wanna lose fat, I wanna lose fat, you know? And you know, here's the other thing, because somebody said this to me today and I was like, wow, because I never looked at it from this perspective. But if you were a fat person, like a very morbidly obese person, you wouldn't give a flying, you know what? If you lost muscle, because in your mind, you just wanna be skinny. So we know that that's wrong, though, because they just don't understand that because obviously if you lose muscle, you degrade thyroid hormone, you cause all sorts of issues with your BMR, resting metabolism, yeah. All that stuff is degraded or made worse over time. I mean, you can't maintain the weight loss. Exactly. And then you have, you know, caloric explosion after, and yeah, exactly, everything goes bad. You have metabolic haywire mode. People do not realize how easily you could actually lose 30 pounds on the scale and actually get fatter from a body fat percentage. That blows people's mind when I try and explain that. That's exactly right. And I'm glad you just said that because I wanna quantify that even more. So as I was telling you guys, and I'm not trying to plug my book, I'm just, I wanna explain it in a perfect way. If you wanna plug my book, you can. Yeah, we will. But so I have a book coming in April or May, you know, whenever this podcast runs, it doesn't matter in 2023 that's gonna be called 30 Days to Shreds. And as I was telling you guys, it'll be like the greatest book, at least in my mind, ever written on showing exactly what you just talked about on how to lose pure fat in 30 days, right? So whether you're obese or you're average or you're like us and you're trying to get to the lowest body fat you've ever looked for, whatever a photo shoot, a fitness competition, whatever, you will be able to do this using these drugs, using these peptides, using these agents without losing any muscle, okay? So again, the most efficient way possible and you're right. Getting back to what I was trying to say about the, you know, the obese person is they don't understand why they're doing it or why, what is the best way to do it? They just wanna lose the weight. So it's up to us and guys like us to teach people like now how is the, what is the best way to do this without compromising obviously your health, your safety and at the same time without losing a single ounce of muscle? And I'm here to say it now, it's possible. You guys all know Lyle McDonald, you know, me and him, you know, I've been back and forth and you know, at one time I was actually friends of him and I was like, oh, poor Lyle, shout outs to you if you listen to this Lyle, he's nuts. Unhinged is unhinged while you're unhinged. But like literally, you know, he used to get into arguments and debates with people about like, it's not possible. If you're gonna lose body fat, you're still gonna lose muscle. And I'd always be like, you know what? Thermodynamically, you're probably right. You're gonna lose some skeletal mass. You're gonna lose some water, which as you guys know is part muscle. That's lean monomass. My debate or my argument or my whole, you know, the thesis with this new book coming will be that not anymore. Now you can use Terzapotide, right? And by the way, we didn't even talk about it on the first podcast and we have to mention it right now. There's one coming that is called a triple agonist. It's called Retrutide. It's been through phase two and phase three clinical trials. It's written about in the book. There's a whole special note in there. And that will be the peptide that literally hits all three energy pathways. So the ones that we just talked about. So you will be able to take this and it will literally be the best. What is it agonizing? Amazing. You got triples of beta? Yep. Beta agonite, what else? It's beta. Man, what are the other two? Well, what are the, so you've got beta aninergic. You've got beta stimulatory. You have, what's the third one? Damn. Yeah, I don't know. I know, I know, I know, but I'm just, I should know this around the top of my head, but it's, so essentially it's hitting everything. It's again, it's gonna increase resting energy expenditure. It's going to delay appetite or dull appetite, suppress appetite, and it's going to enhance BMR. And it's a peptide. And it'll be, again, one shot a week. So imagine when this comes into the market, because we were talking about terzapotide and semaglotide and how it's revolutionized the game. Once this one comes, it's gonna be like, there won't be obese people if they can afford it, but that'll be the question. Now, I'm sure that you, with the appetite suppression at some point, you have to eat at least enough to maintain because your body will get rid of. Let's talk about that. Because Dr. Atia just did a big thing about semaglotide. That's what I'm referring to. And I love Peter. He was, and again, you know, Peter has this mysterious way to always extrapolate research in diseased people. Now in the studies that he's looking at, he's looking at clinically obese people. Okay, so morbidly obese, and let's face it, when you're morbidly obese, you're comorbid, right? You usually have type two diabetes, you're metabolically dysregulated, or you have insulin, you know, resistance or all of the above. It's just called you're metabolically deranged. Those people are losing muscle because it goes back to what you were saying. They don't care. They're not lifting weights. Most of them are not doing cardiovascular exercise. They're not eating enough protein. They're just literally, in their mind, exactly, like, oh, I don't have to eat anymore. So I'm 400 pounds and now I'm 300 pounds. But yeah, you lost a lot of muscle because you're not doing anything to maintain muscle. There's still a minimum modicum of effort and energy and exertion that you have to pull. So it's like, you know, Peter, you know, glossed on that. And I know Joe Rogan talked about it too, or something. He said, oh, it was 35% muscle mass that they lost. Well, yeah, because they're not doing anything to preserve their muscle. And they're not eating enough protein. So it's important to, you know, causation does not equal to correlation, right? And you can't extrapolate, again, in studies in diseased people or sick people or fat people or whatever you want to call it, that this is what goes on in us. Because I'm here to tell you guys, I've been using, I used somagotide for eight months, and it's okay. I started using Terzapetide in August and for my 24th birthday, 24th birthday, I wish I was 24, I look like I'm 24. When I turned 52 on the 24th of February, which was last Friday, I was the most leanest I've ever been. Okay, now I've been eating since then, so I don't look as great as I looked last Friday, but I mean, I did it in 30 days with all those agents. And Terzapetide, which we didn't really talk about that much, is not a triple agonist, it's a double agonist, because again, it's increasing metabolism and dulling appetite. Yeah, what's interesting too, is when you look at compounds that they've studied that actually do burn or amplify pure body fat loss, they also tend to preserve or build muscle at the same time. So testosterone is one of those things. Growth hormone, one of those things. Myostatin inhibition, when you inhibit myostatin, you see muscle gain and fat loss. So the muscle building fat loss combination is, I mean, it's not an uncommon thing. That's right. Now it's challenging when you work with the average person because they cut calories, they tend to exercise wrong, do a shit ton of cardio, no strength training, they're not eating the right way. And so they end up sending a really strong, metabolic adaptation signal to their body. But if you do it the right way, I mean, we train people for a long time, especially beginners, I would often get people who build and lose at the same time. Now after a while, it's mostly just lose, but in the beginning, and this is with using no peptides or anything like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, it's a great point. I actually, when Ava first reached out to me and I was researching you guys, I mean, I knew who you guys were, but I listened to you. I listened to one of your shows where you guys were doing a show on, or it was a clip, I think, on TikTok. It took me to TikTok, but I watched a podcast where you were talking about higher reps and how like- That's the moment people were trying to come after us. It's so funny. But you guys were 100% right. I mean, I could do a whole show with you guys on that. Look, I want to say this, you guys are props to you guys. And again, and I'm really good friends with Mark Ripito, and I'm really good friends with the guys at Elite. And I love those guys, but they don't understand energy systems. And to build muscle, you have to tax all three energy systems over time. So when you're tech, when you're doing one rep maxes, threes, five, sixes, even eights, you're not hitting the higher, that you're not hitting the aerobic, the aerobic, a lactate, you're not hitting the phosphogenic. You're only hitting the type two fibers, right? So it's like, if you're not, what you guys were saying is, so many people miss this. You do have to train in all the various rep ranges over time to build muscle, especially as you get older and you become more adapted to building muscle. Yeah, I don't care what rep range you train and you stand that all the time. It's exactly, exactly right. But so many guys, especially younger guys, and I'm not making fun of them, but you read these guys, big name guys, a lot of followers, in their thirties, they start talking about like, oh, eight reps is the perfect rep range to train at, or six or whatever it is. And then they give you all the science. It's like, dude, I'm 52. I've been training for 30 years building muscle. Like I know that if I trained at eight rep range, I wouldn't build any muscle. I would probably start to atrophy as I got older, right? Cause my body requires different and significant more adaptation. And it's not about obviously how much I lift or anything like that. It's more about the intensity. And again, continuing to fatigue the fibers over time. And I know that was kind of a rabbit hole, but it does equal what we're talking about, which is energy. And you cannot, over time, again, we're getting into fat loss, like you cannot over time not expect, like you were saying, to not have muscle and fat, I'm sorry, muscle accrual or muscle retention not happen at the same time that you're doing fat loss if you do it right. If you do it right, yeah. If you do it right, you do everything right. It feels effortless. So, and what, when I know I've done it right with a client is that they, they'll start eating a particular caloric maintenance. We put them on a cut or a reverse diet and put them on a cut. They'll end up eating more at the end of the weight loss journey than they did in the beginning. So their maintenance is higher and they're lighter. They're leaner. You increase their resting energy expenditure because now they're now more muscular and they have less body fat. All right, let's go back to Neutropics. Cause I, you know, that was the target of the episode. What is your favorite stack for peptide Neutropics or do you like to stick to just one? What have you found the most success, not just with yourself, but with the people you've worked with? Yeah, so I mean, I mean, this is a really good question because I think it does come down to the end user. Like, you know, my business partner, Nick Andrews, which I'm sure we'll have on at some point, he loves C-Max, he loves Salank and he also takes cerebral lysine together. So all three of those together. We haven't even talked about cerebral lysine. We will, you know, we have to speak in code about that. But for me, like I, you know, like I told you guys I don't get a tremendous result from any of them, but I kind of like Salank, Amidate, the intranasal. Like that's the one that I feel like, whoa, like, you know, like I'm noticing this. Like again, nothing like makes me rave, nothing like Tessa Fencing. Like if I'm, if I'm just going to tell you guys, like what is what I feel the best on is Tessa Fencing. But again, it's not even considered a Neutropic Peptide although it should be, because again, it heightens BDNF so much. And again- Because fat loss is more popular. Well, I mean, but also like, as I was telling you guys, like it doesn't cause receptor attenuation. So there's no downgrading. You can come off of it cold turkey and, you know, you could take it for as long as you want with no side effects, right? So it's pretty amazing. Am I going to notice if I go off Dye Hexa and C-Max right out the gates? Do I need to slowly wean down? It's, there's no way to know until you do it. Okay. You know, I mean, I haven't heard that like, you know, outstanding from anybody who say, oh my God, you know, no, but I mean, it's possible that you could. Okay. I had a thought too, as we were kind of like exploring this that, so you brought up too, that you had been like sleep deprived on some level. I myself have, you know, and I'm pretty sure we've been fighting a little bit of like low levels of like apnea in terms of like us being able to feel the effects of it more and like sleep being a factor there. And like, how much is that? Is like prerequisite going in? Yeah. Like sleep deprived people are gonna probably see a bigger effect. Well, that was my theory on you guys because I said, I'm sleeping great right now and I'm also very high doses of caffeine. So I thought, I wonder if I'm Because I'm very dependent on caffeine. Yeah. I wonder if I'm not feeling it very much cause I'm, I don't have any issues with sleep. I'm getting, I'm drinking tons of my higher doses of caffeine right now. So it's mitigating any potential positive benefits. You guys are the opposite right now. Yeah. Interesting. Those are great points. I mean, like I would say to you, like I wouldn't know myself, but it makes a lot of sense that if you're sleep deprived and then the peptide is giving you better energy and better focus, it's more heightened. So it's the whole... Lack of sleep crushes BDNF. Absolutely. If you don't sleep, your BDNF is on the floor. 100%. No, 100%. So that may be why, right? Yeah. I mean, without a doubt. I mean, we all definitely... So here's the thing. And I don't want to rabbit hole, but sleep, you know, I studied a lot about melatonin and the melatonin pathways in the brain and stuff like that. People say you need eight hours, you know, six to eight hours of sleep tonight. That's actually not true. What you do need is four hours of polyphasic sleep, which is the deep rest of your sleep, which very few people get today because of phones and, you know, EMF radiation and, you know, idiots like charging their phone next to their bed and all this stuff that like keeps us awake when we don't actually fall into that deep restorative sleep. I don't know about you guys, and this isn't a plug for them, but like to me, the greatest biohack ever is the eight-sleep mattress, right? Like I sleep on the eight-sleep mattress. It's just like our, we have, you guys have the cheer pads? Oh, dude, those guys, those things. We talk about that change, that change my life. Those are huge. But dude, if you think those are good, you guys gotta get the eight-sleep mattress. So I mean, the eight-sleep mattress, sheites all over. Really, that good? Oh my God, yes. I mean, that's like, I mean, so my wife is, you know, going through perimenopause, she's just turned 51 and like women, when they're going through that are nuclear reactors. I mean, like, they're going from hot to cold and like with that, like it's the most unbelievable thing. I sleep like a bear. I sleep at 55 degrees. That's, I have mine as cold as it will go. Yeah, and we don't have to, you know, compare, trust. Those are great, but like, this is like a whole different level. I don't, like, I don't wear my aurora ring anyway anymore, because it tracks everything. It's unreal. Oh, so the sleep aid actually tracks that too? Everything. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, it's the most amazing thing you can ever do. Oh, so that's what you like more about it, because let's say they're both cooling the mattresses and doing all that, it's the trackiness of it. Yeah, it's everything else that comes with it. Interesting. I mean, it's just, it's so unbelievable. It's the most amazing tech, but to back to that, like I would definitely say that all you, all the listening audience, all of you guys, it's critically important that you sleep at least four hours consecutively. And that's hard for guys that have like older guys that have prostate issues and a lot of us. You gotta compete. Yeah, well, a lot of us, because we're on therapeutic testosterone, you know, we do other things. I don't know if you knew, know this and I didn't know this when I first started doing this. And actually it's funny we're talking about Dan and Shane because he's the guy that taught me this. So ripped fuel back in the day. Yeah. So ripped fuel had this mysterious. Bro, I must, I've given you 10s of thousands of dollars in the past. So ripped fuel had this mysterious way to dilate the smooth muscle in the walls of the prostate. Yeah. So if you started using. Is it because it's a Bronco dilator? Is it similar? Yeah, so in your 20s, if you started having a narrower piss stream or it wouldn't drip all the way out or you just didn't have that flow that you had, that was because the ripped fuel was dilating the smooth muscle along the walls of the ureter and the whole track, the whole area in there. Yeah, so I remember, yeah, so check this out. So I remember in when I first started using it, I was like, what's going on? I went to see a urologist and then he recommended me to an endocrinologist and then I went back to another urologist before I ever started therapeutic testosterone and none of them had any clue. They were just like, oh, you know, you just gonna have to just like, you know, put your hand like right there. I'm not kidding you. I should have known at that point that like clinicians are mostly brain dead. They're just told what to say, but you know, pharmaceutical reps. But once I met Dan and I started telling him about that, he's like, oh, he just told me exactly. And I was like, Jesus. So the ephedra and the ripped fuel, vasoconstrictor or vasodilator? Both. So it's constricting the urethra and dilating like in other areas. That's why I like you have that. Yeah. And then that's why also you'd have like, if you remember. I did notice that. Like a bigger hose that's kinked off. Yes. Exactly. Where sometimes you have this like crazy flow and you're like, and then all of a sudden it stops and you're just like, what is going on? Okay. So, I used to buy ripped fuel and ski stack by the GS low. Bro, I had a refrigerator dedicated to just that in my 20s. We managed big box gyms. And so because of Dan Duquesne and his books and just read. Such a genius. So I used to read Muscle Media 2000 and all that stuff, right? I combined Ephedra, caffeine, aspirin, yo-him-bee. All of it. Yeah, white willow bark. And I did all that shit. And I swear to God, I worked out for three hours, came home if I was going to die. Cause I obviously took too high of a dose. So Dan, you almost killed me. You can hear me out there. Isn't that hilarious though? But because of Dan, like now you know that. I mean, and none of the dieters even knew that. But that's what that was doing. And so now I'm 52 and you guys aren't getting any younger either. And we all have BPH as we get older. It's a part of being a man, right? So it's like to understand that. And that's why I was telling you guys, I'm like, we'll talk after the show, but like that's why we want to get on the prostate bioregulators cause they're going to stop the BPH as we get older and beyond therapeutic testosterone. All right, just to close the loop on, on new tropics. Increasing BDNF, what does that feel like? And I can tell you what I feel like and but I'd love to hear what you, because you've worked with so many people. So for me personally, what it feels like is, I feel, if you've ever been through those times when you feel inspired, I feel like that more often, I feel like memory recall is sharper. In fact, one thing that I noticed when I first started going on these was I was remembering things that I had forgotten. So like childhood things or commercials or articles that I had read a long time ago. All of a sudden we're kind of popping up. Creative flow is much better. That's exactly it. And verbal fluency. So is this, this is what I'm assuming higher BDNF feels like, is this what you're getting from other people as well? 100%. And just so you know, when you have higher levels of BDNF, you're able to reach into the hippocampus, which is the storage. That's the storage of the memory. And that's why you're remembering all those things. But that's exactly right, Justin. I also feel like I'm in a better mood. Creative flow, 100%. So that's the inspiration. So the better mood is like, it's not really dopaminergic signaling pathways, although that's what it kind of feels like, but the BDNF just, what it really does, you just said it, you nailed it. Increases creative expression. So when you're creative, you don't, you're not living in like the, you know how we all hear a million times that the only thing that matters is right now, the now moment, the zero point. When you're creative, you're in the zero point. Yeah. Now are they all doing that? Or which one does that the best? Like, which, They all, from my, and I'd love, of course, you know, from what I've read, they all affect BDNF. They all raise BDNF. Okay. Just through different ways. Yes. So, you know, when you're in a tropic, it's enhancing BDNF, you said it too, already sell like fasting is huge for BDNF. So that's, and again, going back to this book, it's like, you know, I'm going to have a whole chapter on like, if the key is enhancing creative flow or creative expression, then what do we do in combination to enhance that so that we can live in that state, the zero point at all times in our life? Yeah. Right. Fasting, BDNF enhancing agents, exercise sleep, exercise, deep restorative sleep. Yeah. I mean, there's no question that we can use all these new, these new tools and tactics to live in the now point. Now, Jay, not to go on a laugh, but you talked about, now that I have you, I want to ask you this question. We talked, you talked about deep sleep or restorative sleep. Yeah. I also started playing with a peptide called DSIP, deep sleep. Yeah. Deep sleep inducing peptide. Yes. That is supposed to raise the amount of REM, what is it, three or four? Yep. Stage sleep. So, okay. That sounds pretty wild too. It's amazing. I've only used it once in my life and I didn't take enough of it, but it is definitely an amazing peptide. Definitely one to also talk about, like if we come back, when I come back and if Nick comes back with me and we talk about bioregulators, we'll go into that stuff too, but we should definitely talk about organ systems and how like as we get older, like, so I would actually say to like maybe loop this all together and end it like what the next frontier in our space is how do we enhance what we're already enhancing, right? So we're enhancing through testosterone, we're enhancing through growth hormone, we're enhancing through BDNF agents and focusing agents and new tropics and all this stuff, but we're also aging. So what is the backdrop to keep improving and not stagnating as we enhance till the end, right? And maybe the end is actually not the end. Maybe the end is now we live to 200. You know what I mean? Like we're now enhancing our DNA through thymoline, you know, pinealon, we didn't talk about that. We'll talk about that on bioregulators. I mean, so pinealon, just to rabbit hole for one second is literally increasing the pineal gland. Which is mostly calcified from living in the United States or any of the Western world. Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure it is. I mean, that's not a conspiracy anymore. You know what's hilarious is like dentists still tell you that fluoride is okay. Like if you guys ever gotten into a debate about a dentist about like, I don't want my kid to have fluoride stuff and they look at you like, what are you talking about? So it's not a conspiracy theory anymore that it calcifies the pineal gland? It's definitely not a conspiracy theory. Does that remember that 10 years ago? No, no, no, no, there's tons of research out there. It's just covered up. They just don't want to tell you that. And dentists don't learn that in dental school. I actually did a funny thing two years ago with my kids. I was interviewing dentists in Temecula just to ask them about that and not a single one of them until I finally got to one. And he was like, my God, you never want to have. There's actually a dentist who's a good friend of mine. He's in Germany right now. I forget his name, Dr. Whatever. He's pretty big. He's a pretty big influencer right now, but he's the guy that takes out all of the, what do you call it? Yeah, mercury filling. Yes. And he's also like one of the world's leading experts on talking about fluoride and decalcifying the pineal gland and stuff like that. So it's all out there now. It's just, you know, again, they just lie to us. Wow. Wow. Oh, Jay. And first they're gonna make you eat bugs after that. Oh, you sure. Can't wait. Oh, nothing to be happy about. Hey, before we hear what I do want to tell our audience that is hung in all the way to this point, you're probably people that will be very interested to hear this is that, you know, my goal is to get Jay to come into the private forum that we have at MP Hormones. It's on Facebook. It's absolutely free. It's a great resource and hopefully get him to come in there and visit. And if I can monthly, if not quarterly, come in there and talk to you. Monthly for sure. Okay, cool. And just cover top of information. I'm committed monthly for sure. That's amazing. I love that. I appreciate that, Jay. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my bot. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.