 With this polarization, we haven't really touched on previously on the show why there's been this rise. What are some of the trends that you've recognized or that science has shown around this rise in polarization that we're so feeling at the moment? It's so clear to us, but I remember growing up having family members on the other side of the political divide and still having a great Thanksgiving together and having a spirited discussion at the table and my dad arguing with my uncle and then them hugging it out and us agreeing to see each other again on Christmas. Now it's a much different scene around the dinner table. Yeah, absolutely. So there are, there's some structural factors that political scientists would point out, right? Like the rise of the primary system gets you kind of more extreme candidates. The fact that the folks on Washington, they don't live in Washington anymore. They go back to their home districts so they don't have to cooperate, right? So now we have politicians hating each other and, and really demonizing each other, right? So not just saying like this person disagrees with me on how we should get the work done, but now it's this person disagrees with me on, you know, core values or core harms and that feeds down from politicians and media personalities to everyday people, right? It's like the fashion of the day and like as you say right now, the other side are not just well-meaning people, well that they're fundamentally depraved and why would you have a conversation with someone who's not only evil, but who's going to attack you kind of predator prey again, the first chance they get. So what can we do to start to build relationships, lower this threat level that we're feeling? What are your recommendations when it comes to actually communicating in a more effective and respectful way to build and foster connection versus this disconnect that we've all been feeling around the other side? Great question. And I think the, the first step is to recognize that our perceptions are misperceptions. So the other side doesn't hate you. The other side doesn't think that embezzlement and animal abuse is okay, right? We all have the same basic moral sense. And so you need to keep that in mind. In fact, we have some data that show that if you just remind someone, hey, you're going to interact with, with someone on the other side. And guess what? They think embezzlement and animal abuse is wrong. You're like, oh, okay, that's cool. I'll have a better conversation with it. It seems insane that we, that we're there, but like it's effective, right? So just recognize the other person has a basic moral compass and they don't hate you because if you think they hate you, then you hate them reactively. So that's the first step. The second step is, is before you talk about politics, like connect with someone as a human being, don't, don't just launch into politics, right? That's, you know, with any conversation, right? I mean, you guys know this, right? You have a whole podcast on like how to, how to, how to do this better, right? Like you're not going to, hi, I'm Kurt. Like what do you think of Trump? That, that's a little aggressive, right? You could say, hi, like how was your day? Connect with someone about their, their fears, their hopes, their everyday concerns. And then once you build some rapport, then you can invite them to talk about, not force them, be like, hey, I'm trying to understand your thoughts on this, right? And so the invitation coupled with this desire to understand is really what it's about, right? Like I, I took a cab ride to the airport a couple of months ago and, and the Uber driver when I told him I was a professor who studied politics and morality, right? He's like, I'm immediately going to tell you what I think about that stuff. And he said, he's like, I'm a Christian nationalist, but not the kind of Christian nationalists that you think, all right. I don't, I don't, I don't know what kind of Christian nationalists I think you are. So, but I said, well, why don't you tell me, right? I don't have a good sense of what kind of, what the varieties of Christian nationalists are. So please tell me. And once he knew that I was genuinely interested in understanding his positions, then he was really open and sharing, you know, sharing his beliefs, sharing his personal experiences. And at the end of the cab ride, I, I still didn't agree with him, right? With his position, but I, I thanked him for sharing it. And I think he also kind of made some sense of what I was thinking.