 good afternoon I think we'll start so before we start actually I would like you to turn off your phones like I'm doing right now also since we are some of you speak both languages both English and Croatian and Bosnian and Serbian all four languages actually so for you you don't need to use the equipment but if you speak you have to press speak here so that everybody can hear you and that our interpreter in the booth can hear you and translate for Mr. Raghush so that's one thing for those who need equipment they have to press here the button the upper button English is when you're French actually French is we don't have here any possibility to put Serbian Croatian Bosnian so it's it is French you'll have to press if you want to hear the translation you put that and it sounds good so that is for the people who are sitting around the table those who are sitting around on those chairs they have a handheld translation translating devices they put their their headset on on their ears turn the power button which is in the front right under the little screen where you have zero so you press that and on the side again there's channel for one and two you have to one will be when you listen and two when you one is English one is Croatian Bosnian and all Serbian whatever whichever language you want to listen to it will only be number two so now welcome to the US Institute of Peace my name is Renata Stubner and I am a senior program specialist here so the way we'll proceed is I'll introduce our speakers tell you a little bit about them and then give them the floor Mr. Raghush will speak through his interpreter who is in the booth and he his name is Anteja Alkovich he is actually his international secretary he is not a professional interpreter but we are hoping he'll do a good job so after he'll speak about 15 minutes then we'll ask really I'll introduce Mr. Raghush Mr. Joseph who will speak for 15 minutes and then after that I'll open the floor for questions I before we start I would like to let you know that there are seats here available around so why don't you come in and join us we what we wanted the hollow square because we envisioned this as an open dialogue as some so that we feel more comfortable this event is should be also webcast the webcast has started at two o'clock so welcome to all those who are watching us and listening to us on their computers okay so everybody says hello two weeks ago Bosnia and Herzegovina Serbia and Croatia were hit by floods of historical proportions suddenly everybody stopped discussing the coming crucial elections protests national tensions corruption and other mundane topics all the eyes were turned into the swollen rivers that flooded the whole cities not knowing where Republic of the sky ends and the Federation begins where Serbia ends at Bosnia and Croatia begin we have scheduled this event with Mr. Raghush and Mr. Joseph before the floods a rain havoc in the region that is why I have asked our speakers to adjust their presentation and address this natural disaster and its effects on the political situation in the region much of what was rebuilt in the last 15 years is ruined livestock killed human lives taken the pictures we've seen were devastating but what surprised many of us was the solidarity that emerged from this disaster so this is my introduction and you've seen also in our invitation what was the original topic so now I'd like to introduce Mr. Martin Raghush who some of you may know he's been involved in Bosnian politics for well over 20 years I met him in Moscow in 1994 just after the Federation was formed at that time he was in charge of refugees in displaced persons he was one of the founders of the liberally oriented alliance of socialist youth of Bosnia-Hasugovina when 1992-95 a war broke out he was appointed Minister for Refugees and social policy policy in the government of Republic of Bosnia-Hasugovina and he spent two years in the besieged city of Sarajevo he left Sarajevo when the conflict between Bosnia-Hasugovina started in 1993 and he joined HDZ at that point he left HDZ in 2006 and joined HDZ 1990 whose president he's been since 2013 among other things he received a world humanist league gave him a golden plank for the culture of political dialogue that is the highest level actually they give to any citizen and he also European movement gave him a reward as the awarded him as the most European citizen of Bosnia-Hasugovina this all tells us that he's a oriented toward Europe and I would like to give a floor to Mr. Raghush so you want to press that speak okay he'll start with English and then he will switch so if you need translation please use your headset ladies and gentlemen first of all I want to express my gratitude to the US Institute of Peace who invited me for the second time and for this opportunity to hold this lecture as a member of the State Parliament of Bosnia-Hasugovina and the the president of HDZ 1990 after the short introduction I am at your disposal ready to answer all of your questions special gratitude to miss Renata Stubner who organized this event and to the BIH embassy especially to Ambassador Jadran Kajnegodic I would kindly ask Mr. Jankovic to translate my lecture so that I have the opportunity to fully express myself thank you very much. Thank you to you all for showing up in such a big number for the invitation of the Institute of Peace we arrived yesterday actually we had to been yesterday in Washington but the storm moved us to Charlotte but successfully we arrived today here to have this lecture and the storm yesterday above Washington puts us back to Bosnia-Hasugovina and the whole region Serbia and Croatia region in which these days there is a biblical caters of it happening these thoughts most likely never recorded in history first took a lot of human lives few tens of people in Bosnia-Hasugovina and special Serbia and costs huge material and human costs which affects we will have to resign in the long term and this situation which miss Stubner mentioned in the beginning remembered ourselves all in the region that we have to be different when there is a question of organizing public affairs and the public relationship with different countries and the relationship toward the people inside of the country there's one of the key messages I want to greet you all unfortunately the space of Western Balkans and Southeast Europe through history has been through few secularists left apart with confrontations from outside swans from inside and the citizens of the countries have paid for all of these and after all of these war cataclysms that were happening we can just we are witnessing what happened 20 years ago only in Bosnia-Hasugovina more than 50% of the citizens have to leave their homes more than 100,000 people were killed and this is one cataclysm which is not remembered since the Second World War and in the new European history and then first we had Washington's agreement and this is the reason I want to use my political approach with two really important agreements which happened in the United States of America and these are my key messages I want to send the question is would there be peace in Bosnia-Hasugovina in the region if the United States didn't affect it and helped providing peace in this region now 20 years after Washington agreement which was in front of the Dayton peace agreement and which was creating the creation Bosnian Federation in this context on 51% of the territory of Bosnia-Hasugovina and later one year later through the Dayton peace agreement most likely one of the most complex peace agreements through the history and the second part of Bosnia-Hasugovina under the name of Republic Assypska on 49% of the territory was incorporated in Bosnia-Hasugovina on a way that Bosnia-Hasugovina has an international continuity through words these agreements Bosnia-Hasugovina as a complex country the country of free nations Bosnia-Hasugovina as creations and serving which is defined in this statement of law is organized through two entities symmetric entities and this complexity of the country is without precedent through the history in the world is organized in such a matter that until the day with high impact of the international organization couldn't solve the complexity of the issues and at least the annex 10 of the peace agreement gave the obligation to the high representative within Bosnia-Hasugovina to watch over the basement agreement and afterwards this mandate was put forward that he by himself the high represent can choose which laws have to be bring change the politicians and the officials and affect on the institutions inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina and sometimes this mandate for the high representative was used in that manner now the situation is totally different the key message from the international economic community is that we have to take the responsibility for the situation in the country which is a logical message when we would have a logical system inside of the country but this message doesn't work in this kind of system with the two complex and two complicated and this is one of the key message I want to send today because you cannot expect for the main players in the political point of view which represents three different options coming from geometric different constitutional and factical positions expect a rational agreement without the partnership of the international community and today I'm asking that the focus should be be putting back on Bosnia-Hasugovina so that the whole huge engagement which the United States has and the Europe and even wider wouldn't be lost because the political situation from since 8 until today is the biggest institutional and political problems we are facing and crisis and it's showing obviously two points first that the key local players don't have these kind of political capacity to find an agreement and put Bosnia-Hasugovina on a European way and wave towards NATO this is one of the key points we are representing as a political party which I represent as a parliamentarian in Bosnia-Hasugovina because now after a year of hacks Bosnia-Hasugovina coming directly to the borders of Bosnia-Hasugovina after the membership of Croatia inside of the European Union and after the agreement between Pristina and Belgrade the new strategic condition that Bosnia-Hasugovina could move forward and not stagnate kept its status quo or continue this agony which is currently happened that's why we all have the obligations that we have to change this situation and that we have pushed these ships towards stability and the third message which I want to side at the beginning it's time for a new political generation inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina which can harmonize identities inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina won't confront them because the problem of Bosnia-Hasugovina is not the national identities or cultures or religious identity but manipulations through this process and once and for all this has to stop first we have to appreciate each other and represent the entities these in the full level and then these identities have to come with balance with individual and the human rights inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina which is a form that Bosnia-Hasugovina will truly become a European country we don't have this kind of approach the process of political and any other instability will continue outside of these instruments of the European Union and NATO and I don't want to cause such negative energy or send some negative messages because by nature I'm optimistic and I believe that Bosnia-Hasugovina has the legatim right on their legatim constitution moving forward towards European and that this will be realized but the question is when will we have the consensus of free nations and the key institutions side of Bosnia-Hasugovina I wouldn't like that we have a scenario which is currently happening in Ukraine and the four point I want to point out these lectures which we can see from the history prevention in 1991 and 1992 when Europe was stepping back was lacking a bit right needs to be as a true election that we cannot allow not enter into time and solve these issues that are currently happening but without the United States of America with all of the respect towards Europe and without the truly partnership between them I don't really see a way out and it's not really happening anything so all of you who are here today I see you all as friends of Bosnia-Hasugovina and their citizens and all of the nations inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina I want to express my gratitude and I believe you will do anything possible in your power so that we change a positive focus on Bosnia-Hasugovina to move forward with these priorities but we inside of Bosnia-Hasugovina have to start by from ourselves and to shorten this introduction we have to follow a kirtazin and entity kirtazin and entity kirtazin and national kirtazin that we have to understand that not that there's not default in somebody else but in us that we have to look ourselves in the mirror and say which is all responsibility to solve these issues that are currently happening in Bosnia-Hasugovina through few cyclists of history and which is creating this huge human sacrifice and material problems and these kirtazers from my point of view has started in Bosnia-Hasugovina the way how I see this kirtazin is really important that I'm sharing it with you that the social rights few few months shown home the situation in Bosnia-Hasugovina is really hard especially when you see it from the perspective of the citizens in Bosnia-Hasugovina this kind of tsunami is frozen but it's not solved how they want to solve this situation and when this situation were erupt to even bigger problem is a special question we would need a special liberation now these natural catastrophes showed that all of the nation have a much bigger feeling of solidarity towards Yigera than the politician and this is one of the most important messages which it was submitted not only to the politician but to the whole region there were no borders everybody was supporting each other government was working together and people without the influence of politicians were trying to support each other and helping enemy necessary so this is a message that we can work together we can live together but we are lacking this leadership who would put forward this strategic moment which is currently happened and who would push us towards a positive perspective in the 21st century inside of the European Union and the NATO include with the elections which will happen this October the election in October this year are these current analytics after these floods more than 60 percent of the people of the water doesn't know whom to vote for meaning there's a space for a new approach for a positive responsible approach and not preserving status quo which unfortunately most of the key players want to keep status quo because they have the monopoly and the power to control the processes which unfortunately on this way have negative implications on the country and this is what I claim responsibility in front of you we have to redefine the political confederation side of Bosnia-Norway on a way that the government's or parliamentary majorities first time after they turn to try to form a government on mutual programs and politics and not on political positions and taking a part of the big cake of public resources because we have to stop to prove the ball on the responsibility to say some other is responsibility so I was responsible for this situation or banya look as responsible for this situation we have to move through this positive approach because I'm coming from the Croatian national political circle very oftenly they're trying to make it spin that the Croatians are the problems in the side of Bosnia-Norway I want to say loudly and clear and on this program I gave was elected as the president of the political party such divided Bosnia-Norway between Sarajevo and banya luka where they're moving apart from each other unfortunately the Croatians have the key role to solve this problem and to start pushing them together to stabilize the whole country and to move forward for european Bosnia-Norway especially now after Croatia joining the european union and to change this negative path and they'll be trying responsibility in somebody else and taking the responsibility and in this way and this manner to get equality inside of the nation and inside of the countries between all of the nations and now to finish why did we're having a stagnation inside of Bosnia-Norway why we don't have the agreement about the european court ruling said it's fint finty and the ruling is that the imperative that all citizens of Bosnia-Norway without claiming that he's Croatian Bosnia-Norway has the full rights and we have to find a solution how to bring this individual rights inside of our law and I named this the europeanization of Dayton to bring these values these european values inside of the Dayton agreement not changing the dating agreement in such a big manner just putting these european criterias of individual rights and national rights inside of the constitution so that we wouldn't move away from this negative economical situation could try to handle these problems which really affect the lives of the people hopefully I didn't go too wide apart with my presentation highly experienced Balkan expert and lecturer on conflict stabilization and reconstruction he's worked in the Balkans since 92 he's worked he's worked in Bosnia in Kosovo Macedonia he worked in Bosnia he worked in Ptko in Sarajevo in Mostar all over the place and the most recently he was deputy head of the OAC mission in Kosovo he led the technical team of OAC negotiators and forged an 11th hour breakthrough to run Serbian elections in Kosovo averting a brewing crisis between Serbia and Kosovo secretary of state Hillary Clinton specifically acknowledged his contribution I have printed his latest piece he's a widely published author but his latest piece in New York Times in New York Times was published it's an op-ed he wrote together with Srećko Latal from the region and it's called Bosnia's other calamity there were a lot of discussions comments are some positive some negative but if you haven't read it I suggest you take it and I'm sure there'll be some questions about that so Ed Joseph the floor is yours thank you very much I also wanted to say he also he's fluent in Croatian Bosnian and Serbian maybe Dakar maybe Dakar Renato thank you for the very nice introduction for inviting me here it's an honor to be on the panel here with Martin and I was just telling Martin Raghuz that I think the message that he brought is tremendously important and I it's it's hard for me to agree more with with what he said I have a few remarks but I'm just going to underscore just a few things that that I took away as some key takeaways Renato you mentioned the the New York Times piece that's over there in it we made the point in that piece that Martin just made but he made it in I think a much better way which is that he talked about this change in the system about when they went for ownership which is logical and you put it very well Martin it's of course it's logical it's your it's the country is Bosnian belongs to the Croats Bosniax Serbs and others to to run why should internationals be doing it but you put it very well that that's a logical question but not when you don't have a logical system and in that way you very concisely got to the essence of the problem and Bosnia is trapped in a system that was a war-ending vehicle it's been said many times we don't need to repeat it go over it one of the more colorful phrases one of the former high representatives use this phrase Bosnia is a prisoner of Dayton and I know some here may salute Dayton and oh it's wonderful and so forth but it's clearly not that the country is there's there's simply no way to deny I don't know any credible way to deny that the the country is in a very serious state and I'll elaborate on that in a minute it was interesting your point about the elections with 60 percent you indicated 60 percent undecided so hey here's a here's an opportunity maybe you highlighted again something that I think everyone would agree with Bill Stubner is here I know he would agree with that the the elites in the country are totally all about the status quo and so potentially we have a we might see some opportunity especially with these devastating floods that there might be finally some change in the electorate to to really consider some alternatives and at the end you alluded to and maybe we'll hear more about it later about the crott position in the country and the role that crots can play in the in that distance and I can tell you on this were not to you alluded to some of my my different positions among them was I was in most our end birch go which was a very nice contrast to go from one to the other and I thought the crots in postavina played a very important role in in in bridging the the gap that was there and taking away some of the the suspicion about why people wanted to come home and it wasn't all about a dark plan to divide republic of serbskin and so forth but people genuinely wanted to live there they crots there saw bosnia as their country and they had been displaced from their homes and they wanted to go back and we saw some very positive role played by the the crock community there in in what would otherwise have been a very very much more difficult situation without that so with those brief reactions to your again quite compelling piece let me share a few remarks and I'm going to begin with using the word that you used to describe these floods which is biblical and and I have three points that I'm going to make here and just hopefully keep this short and then we can have a good discussion but the the first point is I want to elaborate on the point about the biblical dimension and use that really as a theme to talk about this because the first is to try to convey the staggering devastation of these floods in a small country and that the first I'm going to I have some indicators for you and the information that I have it's really really staggering so first when the term biblical that martin used is tossed around it's not just a loose metaphor it it's accurately describes secondly if we take that metaphor of course the the biblical flood uh no and of course the the movie that's out the Russell Crow movie that that's out and people reflect a little bit on why you know the biblical story I'm about the last person to come to for some uh uh insight into this but it's it's still a useful metaphor because the the pudder the rain that came those 40 days and 49 it was punishment and it was punishment for in the in the biblical terms wickedness and I'm going to highlight some of the wickedness not that anyone deserve this but in the sense that uh it wasn't rain that created this devastation in Bosnia it was the lack it was ineptitude and the lack of functioning that and the neglect that's been tolerated for so long it wasn't it wasn't in the end really an act of God but it's really been an act of man and that's the and then finally if to conclude the biblical term the redemption the whole point of the flood of Noah and the flood and so forth it wasn't to destroy the world it was to start over and and have something better and and learn from the mistakes of the past and build so what are the possibilities for redemption so those are my three points let me try to go over them quickly the the extent of the devastation uh there will be uh some of you may know there'll be a damage assessment that's uh meant to be done by the 18th of June the World Bank the EU and the IMF so they're out there but the indicators that I've been shared are just uh incredible half the economic output is potentially lost uh you're and again this is a poor country there's a whole lot to fall back on a lot of the agriculture uh may be ruined and uh there's and tax receipts I'm told already for this month which is coming to a close uh are half what they should be uh and the damage already exceeds the budgets for both entities and uh the the context so it's and the other point here is that you total all these together hundreds of thousands of people could be in need that's what I'm told hundreds of thousands of people could be in need so this is really really a hugely significant event the uh rs uh you know in in past the the thing let's let's be open and candid here that the a lot of the political uh posturing has been oh look at this the federation that's all messed up we're we're doing fine in the rs well it's the rs that's been particular particularly badly hit and there are open political disputes within the rs and there's open criticism so this isn't internationals it's criticizing dotac and it's not bosniax and croats it's other serbs criticizing the leadership in a very open and sharp way of accusation of politicization of the of the aid effort particularly in bielena one of the hardest hit areas so the the damage is is quite spread around no one is there are some of course some areas that are thankfully free but no entity neither entity is free and then finally um i would point out in another uh metaphor of the past this problem of the mines having been dislodged i've seen a statistic here that there were uh in the country there were mapped and known areas 1200 1200 square miles of mines and the estimate is that of those 1200 square miles of mines some 800 square miles have been affected by either the flooding or the mudslides and dislodged and and here again you have quite a graphic metaphor what is it that just beneath the surface of the calm are the remnants of the the unfinished remnants of the war the unfinished business of the war still unaddressed and and i think something to consider about both in terms of its actual threat that it poses to people there've been seven explosions of already no one thankfully has been hurt but the danger is quite there and we can also think about it in the larger reminder of of the stunted progress from the war the other points i think to emphasize is who's going to be most vulnerable in here a lot of our mines should be with those the poorest and also uh so i'm informed a lot of the most vulnerable are those who are were themselves refugees so serbs who had lived in croatia and left and others who've been or displaced uh who've been displaced and living in communities that that were not originally their homes uh they're already and have been in a and a more adverse financial position and this only exacerbates that so that is really no exaggeration about the extent of of this this is a really a devastating event then the second point is why was it so devastating this was again not just the act of god and heavy rains uh there had been flooding in the past there had been flooding in in 2010 and the question comes why weren't the preparations necessary preparations done uh to address this there was we saw uh very serious questions about the ineptitude in the response lack of uh engagement it's on there my uh writing partner in the piece sresko letal who uh renata mentioned he's cited and tracked when the first mentions were on the websites of the entities and they are well into the into the disaster before the uh the emergency was even mentioned the citizens who were in bad need complained that they got virtually no response and this is in a uh a country where you have layers and layers and layers of administration so where where were the layers where were the uh all those uh uh folks there who who might have been deployed to help even there was ineptitude within the media where the uh two of the leading networks rather than broadcast emergency information had focused on other things music and uh an investment conference it was just incredible that this would have happened as i mentioned there was politicization there's been blatant electioneering in both entities you had a uh meeting there where uh miller adodic went to uh belgrade and met with prime minister uh butchage rather than keep the focus on the people and god forbid make a gesture towards to the uh to the fact that everyone in the country we are all together united this it was exactly the the the opposite uh it was uh again another highly divisive message that he gave in the federation you had a minister and an ex-minister trade accusations that were uh whatever basis there there were to them were not really the kind of thing that you need in the midst of a crisis uh to deal with and there are already reports and here's where it becomes quite significant we're not just talking about the past but in terms of dealing with this uh relief there are already reports of corruption in the uh with respect to the relief effort there are already these are published reports uh about this and uh fears that uh people jockeying in order to get kickbacks for the anticipated contracts to come for the cleanup and and that in and of itself is is going to be a complimenting uh complicating factor in the relief and having done uh effort uh worked in the relief effort that this is not uh good and is not healthy they ideally what you want to do is channel the effort through state institutions in a way to strengthen them but if they are uh not reliable and and corrupt well then you you're going to have to find other means uh then my last point okay what about uh redemption here what what kinds of uh uh opportunities do we see for redemption that here's where there is some good news the good news is that the people of bosnia herzegovina showed their genuine and true hearts martin uh underscored this uh as well when he he pointed out that the the division's the system and the uh political leaders who benefit from the status quo who who created the division but there were terrific examples of selflessness utter uh lack of concern as to the ethnicity of who it was who was in need there were uh to give some examples uh from behatch you know where they have you know the una river and there are a lot of people raft and quite accomplished going into the rs in areas that are flooded and and helping people out there there were uh the same uh in the going in the other direction students from sarajevo university who are also going into doboy and and other places to help who cared if they were serbs or bozniks or crots nobody cared just uh to try to help and uh you had uh in in one case in teshan a uh there was a businessman who uh had uh owned some of the gas stations who provided fuel to those who were in need again regardless without any regard to ethnicity so in addition you have the uh examples of the of the athletes of course novak jokovich uh and edin zekko who both contributed again in a way that was just purely humane and it was without a political basis the country's football team which is has qualified for the the world cup and and we can only hope that they do like the japanese women team did after the earthquake in japan let's hope come on we can hope here uh they have had benefits already and and shown their own uh generosity of spirit uh to to really help the people of the country so that's the you have a basis there and then this is so it isn't all just gloom but the uh the challenges are enormous and uh i'm gonna close here we don't have to to get into the details right now there's there's plenty of uh uh time to do that and there's plenty of brain power here to make suggestions of what to do but here's really the crucial point is this is the crisis opportunity that cannot be missed this one cannot be missed they've there's been so many in the past and there's been so much oh talk and it doesn't work and so on the huffing and puffing the and the protests in february where which many of us thought finally they'll get it together and the international community will work with folks work with civil society and get a serious initiative together and of course germany others they're they're not interested strategic patients and so forth this is the one that must not be missed that all the conditions are there for a very serious initiative the country is vulnerable financial assistance is it's only the international community that can come up with the the needed financial assistance leaving aside one other potential source but uh and so along with that now is the time for the elections to have a serious transatlantic effort make the e u process work get work on privatization root out the corruption bring in civil society into the conversation and and finally put bosnia on its correct path as martin was suggesting thank you thank you ed i just want to ask you a question was that a message to the bosnian or that was a message to americans the last the last message the last call for help the uh martin i believe is coming here on a uh a mission to to to wake up uh folks in this town that we're here in the us and i think it's appropriate today the president spoke on foreign policy this unlike syria unlike Ukraine and and so forth this is a problem that can be resolved and doesn't have any of these downside risks engagement in bosnia we don't have jihadists we don't have all of these we don't have russia indirectly engage where oh my god in ukraine if we do this we do that then though it's only our engagement can almost almost only be positive it there's almost none of the negative risk factors that you have in syria and all these other places where we've talked ourselves out of acting and so i'm i'm reinforcing martin's message that yes and he martin made a very strong message about us leadership it's the fact he's absolutely right and and you have only one country now that's the uh would be uh it's the most powerful country in europe but it has completely i think you can use the word completely abdicated its leadership role germany they're not equipped to lead they're powerful but they have no capacity to lead no one else is going to step forward in in europe to do that there you know by by default you come back to the us which it doesn't need to do it all but it needs to be the leading catalyst to to get action thank you and thank you very much so before i open the floor for you for questions i would like to ask actually martin what i read in the papers is i i mean it was whatever you read you can always wonder whether it's true or not but the fact that the federation nor bosnia and as a governor ever declared the emergency i read that the reason was because the budget the was actually the emergency budget was empty the money was used to pay off some government debts is that the case so we'll need to use the interpreter again unfortunately this is the situation you're right and at the beginning i would like to say one sentence mr edwards really structured it's obviously that he has been for a long time there and he detected a really big problem inside of the federation the federation of bosnia and according to the washington agreement was expected to be the leader and an example how we should construct the whole country of bosnia and herzegovina unfortunately through the political relationship the federation became a black hole from political reasons and from financial reason in this current situation we don't have an agreement with mmf imf 40 percent of the budget is on the line and plus this was edwards mentioned they cut the income of texas in half because of these natural disasters and this is now a framework in which the politics needs to respond to give an answer unfortunately even in better situation we didn't get a positive response from politics we need a structural reform coming from the federation this is one thing i wanted to point out at the beginning so that 60 percent 60 percent of the budget is not spent on government and government costs we have 10 cantons in the federation of bosnia and herzegovina we have somewhere around 200 ministers in these cantons somewhere around 400 parliamentarians and we have public spending which not even japan japan could take or countries which were much stronger the reform of the federation bosnia herzegovina is an imperative i'm not saying it only because of political reason but also because of political reason this is one process which would bring back the faith that through a dialogue through a political dialogue we can find a strategic solution for the benefit of the people living there because now we have the fact that none of these cantons expect saray or canton just because it's in the position because it's in the center of power with all of the international community and the financial institution not even there can pay all of the bills they have according to the obligations so we're losing this sense of this kind of organization inside of the country we have to move forward to rationalize the number of the cantons so that they are self-sustainable and these are a few of the key points we have to put forward in forehand federation was giving a positive message to the whole country but republic has subscribed had from the beginning a reserve position but now we're missing this positive message because of the internal problems of the federation of bosnia herzegovina and now we constantly need some new energy who would balance the relationship inside of the country because we cannot respond with one message because of these two identities we have to find a way how to speak with one voice towards the international community to cover economics to cover a financial situation to cover agriculture politics inside of the countries we have to have partners inside of the political framework who would on a structural reform basis move forward that we can address these issues who pop out on our way forward and for this point the conclusion would be why such huge talents from this region in bosnia herzegovina craisha and syria not only through sports movie culture but they can only flourish and be successful when they are in the system that allows them to be efficient to be benefiting from their skills we we're the only country who cannot benefit from all of the potentials we have so one of my messages is let's stop these constantly confrontations inside of the country but to stop this we need the strategic support from outside and i want to thank the speakers we don't need somebody who to work for us from the outside we have the concepts how to solve the situations but you cannot block a country just because unconstitutional question like sierra is fintech you have to let us through the life so that we are on the way solving these issues so the floor is open and i already have seen that the first question should come from ambassador bcroft he was the head of the oacy mission in 2000 2001 could you press the speak here actually i served twice in bosnia herzegovina i was the special envoy for the bosnian federation in 1996 97 and ran what was called the federation forum martin will remember this well this was richard holbrook's idea of forcibly bringing the two parties together and we know the kind of success that that can have over the long term in bosnia herzegovina which means not much just a word about land mines first when i was principal deputy for political military affairs at the state department we began looking at the land mine mine problem in be the problem is is really bigger because so many of those land mines were not put in by professional military officers or men and they were put in by a farmer somewhere because he was able to go into a weapons depot and get a land mine to discourage others from coming back those mines are now moving and no one knows where and no one knows how and this will be a problem all the way to romania as they come up against dams and bridges so the problem is even bigger than bosnia herzegovina Serbia and Croatia it is a southeastern europe problem at the risk of sounding marxist what is to be done every national group has produced a series of disappointing political figures martin you are the exception um i think of another croat friend of mine dubravko lovrenovic who in a debate with me once on bosnian television began by saying you must understand that i am not a professional croat well there are still too many professional croats professional serbs professional bosniaks who unfortunately dominate the political scene in bosnia herzegovina you put your finger on the main problems the imbalance between naro d and yudi individual rights should take primacy while respecting the importance of group rights date and put it backwards the second is the need for a new political generation i worked very hard on what we call the successor generation initiative but we never had the funds to do it as thoroughly as i would have wanted and i remember too many young politicians in bosnia herzegovina complaining that their bosses wanted them to do nothing but get coffee they're a catharsis as you say is needed but what does that consist of it consists of a vision it consists of a plan that is acceptable to all and the international community which by the way is not really a community won't do it for you i think that what has to happen is that the political constellation has to be redefined by programs first and ethnicity second ethnicity won't go away but when it dominates everything else you're left with nothing as we have now seen because of the floods now sabotage is inevitable there will be attempts if a plan comes forward to torpedo it and that is where the international community needs to pay attention and needs to be ready to intervene as necessary so my plea to you martin is to provoke us come to us with a joint plan don't call it date and two call it behi ha yiddan otherwise i fear that the drift will continue because we are preoccupied with other things now you may have heard of a place called ukraine or syria or even china and vietnam right now bosnia herzegovina seems to be the dog that is not barking i think that could change and it concerns me if you can transform us from being passive to active by being active yourselves that kind of leadership will get a response but provoke us it's essential thank you ambassador b croft next we have two more i have to give a chance for my husband bill stubner to ask a question next and then after that obrad kessich okay and the lady over there actually obrad was going to yield the floor to me since he figured you wouldn't let me talk but anyway great presentations ambassador b croft great intervention um questions for martin i work sometimes i have a lot of friends at the youth initiative for human rights and we've heard for years from one american ambassador after another that there are really good young people in bosnia herzegovina well we know that but it seems like the way the main political parties are structured they're so calcified at the top quite frankly with corruption that idealistic young people have no way to move up so how would you know i've heard from my friend the youth initiative for human rights that your daughter in most are really quite an activist so tell me how can you promote youth activism among all the groups so that they start to see that their interests are more with each other than with their so-called leaders very good question thank you martin first i want to say thank you to mr b croft you really remembered on some really important points first the mediation in the federation and the federation for a really positive approach and this is something we need today and there the united state played a key role and i still believe that they can play such a role last year we had a reform a proposal of reform of both the federation of bosnia herzegovina which should continue which is mean to her one word is really which one thing i can agree with you we have to come with one approach to ask and request some partners but i also mentioned these unlogicalities which exist in bosnia herzegovina with something else from speaking as one voice towards the international community in front of me i have the statement just to say i was also one of the persons who put this agenda form this declaration this is the declaration of political parties inside of bosnia herzegovina close to the european people's party where the first time we put a signature on four values we all shared together a european way and identity of equal rights solidarity respecting each other economical government and five of the strongest political parties in bosnia herzegovina signed this declaration from the bosnia herzegovina and the cross this is the first step now we will see is behind this signature really leaders pushing forward over they're just playing with their hands in their pockets but we're started i would like to see also on the left center that there are some combining with mutual values so that we can finally after october with not losing one year one and a half year before we reform the government if you see like we're missing one and a half year to forming all government why because the problem was which position would be held by which political party this is the reason why we need to have a concept before the elections so that we can move forward fast in the cold process but this for this to happen it's really important the one thing mr subna ask political party has to go through this process of internal profiling and the catarse inside of the political parties you see i'm elected on the last general assembly in sarah sarah yellow where we had two candidates that was the first time not only in creation nationalities but in the whole bosnia herzegovina that we had open elections and we're pushing forward democracy and that we have a positive approach towards the president and we're paying or political price for having this positive approach but we have to fight for it and not keep the current situation of tactics quo which is mostly common by the other political parties when this democracy inside to a force of the political parties goes through this the criminal democratization and court doesn't then we can expect that it will move forward to to the whole country and then we can talk about employment and everything else and in this way use of economical power we have inside of country and then you have the not the institutions the governments we should have the power because all of the powers they had was sucked out by the groups interest groups which are affecting with them through political parties on a not transparent way but as i mentioned everybody has to start from themselves i can publicly say we pass through this process of cartaz as the first political party inside the bosnia herzegovina and we are moving forward to the election with a positive campaign with a positive approach but there's no question about the path for bosnia herzegovina we see only bosnia herzegovina on the path of the european union and neto without theirs this is one thing we cannot discuss this is one thing we're pushing forward and this is a process we appreciate and we want to have this process of negotiating towards the european union and neto we don't need discounts with the reforms we need to have but we need technical support to push it forward the international community and the general audience has to detect which political parties are moving forward with this agenda for a positive fit change and then you have to put a positive pressure to change the current situation thank you thank you uh obedet kesic director of the republican serb scoff is here in washington dc um welcome for i don't know how many times you've been here to washington but welcome again um two questions uh first is something you didn't talk about either one of you and i'm kind of curious if you could give us your take on it the effect of the eu elections and how does that affect what you discussed in terms of the possibility of the eu or the us assuming a greater role in in bosnia and then the second question is and i hate to be the dark cloud in this although there are a lot of dark clouds here what if plan a doesn't work what if the us and ambassador b croft touched on this is there a plan b that you're looking for are preparing what if the us and the e you don't engage more don't become more active what will you do from the point of the european elections from the point of creation democratic union in crecia they had a really positive results they're currently opposition side of crecia and we have to use this current situation with getting six men at the side of the european parliament few months ago i had a presentation in the european union where on the topic where's the western balkan after 10 years after the solo summit and the enlargement process on the balkan i can give you the speech and it's publicly um you can get it on the public website further words a changement inside of the european parliament because the epp is not so dominating as they were so so most likely they have to go towards a big coalition with the social democrats and the european people party but the problems with us we don't open this plan b for positive change and the plan b would be not to question any entities but to see what is the problem inside of the country the problem is when the creations are questions we cannot push things under the carpet because in two voting process the results were pushed forward to the creation people meaning they didn't respect their voting world we don't ask for anything else we're just asking respect the will of the creation people and don't manipulate with other worlds to put their government officials for them this is the first question we have to address as beginners and the plan b would be to open parallel with political agreements it what is the interest of republica sipsa the most important thing for republica is that the institutions inside of both networks are going to function because republica sipsa has full control about these institutions also in the presidency also in the ministry and everything but the creation doesn't have such such a situation but we don't have any situation that we can affect it but even the crowds are saying we need to have this institution who can work on the problems so the most important thing for republica sipsa has that we have functioning institutions inside of bosnia herzegovina plan b is that we have to move forward on a together on a plan how political plan how to solve the problems and this is a point we have to move forward if we see how much china is investing inside of bosnia herzegovina a few millions dollars so it shows all of the potential we have inside of bosnia herzegovina especially when we speak about electricity and natural resources and we are missing the investment from the other side from the united states and everything else so meaning the plan b would be not to push the responsibilities to somebody else would ask about the referendum to divide the country but to move forward in the context to fight for better living conditions inside of bosnia herzegovina and to address this biblical message with what happened currently in bosnia herzegovina we have currently four thousand places where the earth is moving we're not knowing where the minds are currently have had two thousand places where the land was moving and the country is divided we're not knowing what will happen in the future what will happen when we have next time such a natural catastrophe a few days i read on facebook one madame from korea she mentioned the speech of john paul the second when he was in salaro this was such a brilliant speak and i would ask you all to read it he said where the salar is coming out from from slovenia ending in in dunav in sirvia how much we have to rely on each other and we see this only now after this elementary natural but we have to respond to these questions not to manipulate with the entity questions or the nationality question so that everybody feels recognize and appreciate inside of the country and that's a really important point saying bay is to move forward towards europe towards nato and to move away from this current instability which is existing if i could jump in oblawed two very fair questions plan b i think we we know what is plan b plan b is what you see is what you get and let it's let the country continue and roll the dice till the next disaster comes and let's hope it isn't of a inter-ethnic character so that to me and that that seems to be the default position a lot of rhetoric and so forth but very little action the to your point your question about the EU elections and come back to bob's also very good points just i try to list these super very fast number one is whatever the these results election results you know the front not senile in france and so on and so forth the Balkans have seemed to be inert from these changes far more serious than these election victories was the financial crisis in europe i agree still the leading state in the most powerful economy in the Balkan region devastated and it had almost no effect on the attraction and the the direction of countries in the region most notably of course obrata's you know Serbia whose whose deal that it cut a very you know historic deal with Kosovo was only because of its attraction to the EU so that i think it's good that she raised it but the the the Balkans have crossed far more serious troubled waters with in terms of the recent financial crisis than this very distressing results but still it seems that the the magnet is there and it's a very important magnet and this goes to bob's point but i would just remember in our bleak scenario here that there is a vision by you're right there has to be a vision but there is a vision and the vision is the EU if not nato as well not necessarily but the EU accession and it's a good vision it's not a perfect vision but it's a it's not a bad vision at all and it has had substantial impact Croatia has seen i think you can really point to tangible progress in in Croatia you can also see you know Hungary etc slippage and so forth it's not a panacea but given what's available in the world and the amount of energy it's a really really good vision imagine if egypt had such a vision a country like that they have nowhere they have no they don't know where they're going to go and and so they're they're left in it just to fight amongst each other and battle it out and choose a dictator the Bosnia has a place it has a point of strategic orientation we want to be like that Croatia has proven you can get there and so that is the vision the problem is it doesn't work it doesn't work with a dam the EU accession process and that's where the energy i think there's been some good ideas on this that's where the energy has to be in the imagination we have the we have the vehicle but we have to tailor it and make it work uh for this country uh to to make it work in a way that can Bosnia um can approach that uh and i had a couple other things i'll wait uh thank you ed we are approaching our end time so we have three more persons that i've spotted uh one is the lady on my left if you could just make it short and then um gentleman here and uh i'm one of the members of the 50 percent my name is Festa Markovic and i'm working for UNDB in New York in the Bureau of Crisis Prevention i would use my right to speak to one of four languages because i'm a member of the 50 percent of Bosnia and Herzegovina citizens who have to leave their country first only short comment on the interactions how they started this conference i would seriously want to point out that solidarity which was shown now during these floods and after the floods and it's still shown is not something that really surprised us but is gave a positive message and we're really positively happy about it that how we the nations on the Balkans have to respect each other and put give a hand in tough situations i've seen it also on the television but also through in the people or people from the Balkans who are not living on the Balkan where the communities were supporting each other not seeing who they giving the money not meaning the Bosnian survey and so the reason why i'm working for the united nations the question is going to be a little bit different my question would be how the united nations should give that contribution towards a better situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina we have in December put Bosnia and Herzegovina back on the list of as one of the priorities because of the analysis we made we put Bosnia and Herzegovina as one of the priorities at the same level as Mali, Assyria, Kosovo or some other countries in March i had the opportunity to visit the country and also talk with Mr. Latal which you mentioned today and we wanted in some kind of way suggest suggest some program in this time period when you know that we in the region of Balkans constantly making jokes about that situation is really classic but we can't live with it so we're looking at elections and anything else but the stage currently is really critical and we all especially in the bureau where i'm working is extremely important to hear from your point of view Mr. Raghush and just like the ambassador said how you can provoke our response what we can do in this moment which is really critical in a positive way this crisis to move the process away what we could do we are really running short i would like to take two more questions could you introduce yourself i'm Zvonko Lavas i work with national federation of creation americans for years we have been representing creation american community here in washington dc we fought for many many causes for creations all over the world in united states creation boston hersey govina every time we came to talk to people in the state department to say me a culpa every time we ask what can be done to help boston hersey govina creation boston hersey govina hersey govina is a feasible boston hersey govina is a feasible state etc etc every time we were told it's their business they have to do it we don't get involved don't touch date on agreement it was a holy grail over and over again so my question now is what especially to mr joseph is the state department on our side and the european union are they finally willing to become as mr ragus was saying active partners with boston hersey govina to finally help them develop and implement the constitution and other things that they need to become a feasible state and country thank you mr labrish and the last question my name is rujina kampa i work from sidle sidle was the company that provide the technology to the election management system that was used in boston hersey govina in the 2010 elections the elections are just four months away and it's quite tight already and you had a major natural disaster i was wondering if do you see that need of international assistance somehow to be there for the elections or we should feel comfortable having you know the the central election body running the elections by themselves this is one of the things that you will like the us to support thank you very much mr ragus thank you how the united nation could help when the war started 1992 i was in cyborg i was the youngest minister in the government and with you and see we established the air bridge which was lasting along for a few years and with the notes of the analytics was that all of the users was mostly getting the commentary and only 11 percent was maybe lost my message was just like then the humanitarian help is really necessary now when i was going to the states i was talking with all mayors in post-savannah few councils are still flooded and the question is when they will start a normal life again meaning schools their care hospitals their priorities and the second point is that housing funds need to be supported so that the people have somewhere to live because they lost everything these floods and these are the key messages how on an economical way on a sustainable way support because the losses in these areas are really high you by yourself said that you're acting preventing now is the moment for a really global role of un on a humanitarian level from the point of mr labas i think he really touched the heart of the problem i open it in i asked open it in my opening speech i call this the europeanization of data and on this europeanization we need all of the men who established dating to push forward to work on it and there's no taboo team in these questions data needs an evaluation without questioning anybody inside of both of them because currency it's limiting the country it's a system which is not functioning in these crisis situations and not even question anything else and even the cross as a constitutional nationals have to be feeling as an constitutional entity to having the rights and all of the people all of the citizens have to feel equal this is an imperative we have to put forward when we ask what is going through with the election before coming here we're pointing our applications towards the voting meaning as a political party to have the right to compete you know what what response we get from the central commission of for the elections that the board of ministers didn't get the money to have opening voting cells meaning open boxes where you can look inside so even if we would just have these boxes where you can see it from the outside meaning being visible would be a bit set forward there are some political parties we don't have the power to control the voting body how it's used mostly in the Balkans the second that we stop with the voting bills who are not counted because they're not efficient or seen as representative that we have quoted preservers and the system of counting the bills which is on a european level from the quality sides if you could support in any way on this level we we can change the number and on an institutional way move forward the central electoral body in both in Erzegovina because OSE was supporting a lot and even now the the impact of what I say is still of important strategic level no matter that we have currently a body who is independent and can move forward with the election but this kind of support is would be really fantastic that we can have a much more transparent election process so we would respect the right of every individual their right to vote I will give you all of the address and I really appreciate your offer Mr Lavash thank you for asking that question you you put your finger right on it I mean we'll we'll the U.S. government take this question seriously bill is shaking is that I wouldn't write it off but I think a lot of it it depends on us and and how what folks like who come to meetings like this are obviously interested and committed to Bosnia and especially in the aftermath of this flood there's an opportunity so I would encourage people to get the message out that this is a country that that needs our help there's a couple of problems though of getting there and one we come back on your point that the message oh they have to do it the dating agreement and so forth we heard Martin again with his eloquent point about logic yeah that's very logical and a logical system and there's been too much of that temptation it's just so easy especially for someone who it doesn't really want to deal with the problem all they have to do it it just sounds nice and it's divorced from reality one of the specific examples of that of course was in these recent protests that were in February and we wasted that opportunity because people said well oh we have to oh look they're speaking that the people of Bosnia are speaking so who are we to jump in and tell them and and and when you scratch right down well first of all it wasn't all the people of Bosnia was in one mainly in one geographical area there might have been sympathy and there appears to be sympathy with the protests everywhere but only one group was really speaking about it number one number two there were a lot of there were some good things that were being done and there were also a lot of crackpot ideas so there was great stuff about holding cantonal officials responsible for corruption and getting rid of their uh you know bjeli kruch you know bjeli herb that they they had and get rid of that that was great but the these plenums did not address the fundamental problems that keep this country mind they did not to the contrary some people were promoting these fringe ideas citizens democracy we don't need institutions and so forth and then you see a flood i'm sorry aha people it's great all this volunteer work is great but that isn't what saves people you need a flood a natural disaster like that is the proof you need functioning institutions and there is no alternative to representative government however barely it functions however much church ill was right in what he said it's democracy is the worst of all systems except for all the others and uh there is no uh one and hopefully people in that protest movement who were so uh big on uh crazy ideas like that will understand and will become active in the elections i'm going to finish with two concrete suggestions that are feasible that can be done so that this isn't just oh well g uh pie in the sky i'll do something and so forth but what actually can be done i'm going to give two very specific very feasible things that can be done number one is the uh with respect to the relief that's coming in uh this is one that i'm going to credit ranata with i think along the same lines but i this may have come up in our discussion but you you you don't want to work around all the country's institutions and you don't want to deny the people the relief uh but you know the institutions uh stayed in cantonal are not functioning and how they corrupt go to the municipality go to the local level uh so that's one very concrete feasible uh suggestion that can be done uh with respect uh empower the the local level and that's keeping very much with the EU philosophy of subsidiarity and that's again you and you can distinguish uh and and measure municipalities municipalities that don't perform obviously and don't cooperate you don't uh get the money then the other one is very in addition to try to oh revamp the constitution and and change the EU accession system which is the real key there but while we're waiting for that there's something that could be done there's an initiative that could be done and that's on privatization these uh again we see the floods with the example the corruption is not just a theoretical issue it's a real problem that has contributed to the devastation of this country experiences let's do something about that come forward international EU US joint proposal to privatize these socially owned enterprises that the political parties uh exploit to remain in power that is feasible that is not any grandiose thing that can be done and imagine you put that out as a uh a public offer with uh you there's any number of ways it could be done with OHR it could be done with the EU it could be done with the US offering to uh supervise so make sure the privatization is done in a transparent way you put that out publicly you show me that Bosnian citizen who is not going to support that i would like to see that aside from uh someone who is elected leader benefiting from the the patronage system so those are two very specific things that could be done uh we're not i want to thank you very much and i just want to say uh the future of this country we should not lose hope with people like martin thank you thank you ed thank you martin and thank you everybody i hope you have informative and enjoyable afternoon and i hope you will take some uh ideas and lessons and martin has a meeting at four but he'll be here to chat with you and maybe exchange cards if you have thank you and see you soon