 Okay, next. Yeah, collagen in skincare. Hello. Hi, apologies, that was my bad, being slow with the invite request to you, so I apologise. I was too busy putting my lip gloss on. That's perfect, I just wanted to build on the anticipation, so it's a good thank you. Brilliant. Thank you so much for joining us. I didn't properly give you an intro, so let me do that now. This is Custodio, have I pronounced that correctly? That's perfect, that's perfect. He means guardian angel in Latin. Wow, a beautiful name. Yeah. So Custodio is part of the brand called Swissline, and Swissline is a brand that just their science and everything is amazing and really at the forefront of collagen in skincare. I know they've got loads of other science going on, but collagen in skincare is quite kind of unique to them specifically. And I must admit, as I've been doing my research and into collagen in skincare, I've actually realised that there aren't so many brands now using collagen. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think collagen is one of these ingredients, which is okay, it's a skin identical ingredient, right? And that's already, it's a good way to kick off and to understand it. So it's something which your skin is producing and very often the same bio substances which skin produces can have very interesting skincare benefits. But it's also, as such, very complex to understand what it can really do topically and what it cannot do topically. And I think the reason why maybe more brands stay away from collagen, it's actually because it was quite misleading, the promises. It has its boom like the 60s, the 70s. And the idea was very childish in a way. So you add collagen to your skin and the collagen penetrates and it's going to replenish your own collagen. And this is false, this is not possible. Yeah, absolutely. And I would say maybe I will introduce you now for Switzerland. We are very keen, we say that we are inspired by beauty, but we are informed by biology. So I think biology and I have to step back a little bit and share a biochemical concept which is the half life of a substance. Is this something you spoke in your channel ever? Okay, no, go. I've got my pen and paper here ready because I kind of got to learn loads as well. So explain this. I could see your eyes. I would say, what is the guy talking about? What is he talking about? So the idea of half life, I think we all understood it is just that it's not talked about enough. So there is a lot of biological substances which are built in the skin and then they are broken down. They are destroyed. And very often we only talk about the first half life. When they do collagen, everybody knows it's giving strength is giving connection is the connective tissue. So he puts together skin, but also all the other organs. When we talk about collagen, I mean they are more than 16 different types of collagen. But we only talk about what it is while the protein, we should have said it. Yeah, so I think that's an interesting point. The fact that in the body, I think the consumer would possibly think more collagen is collagen. But like you said, there's 16 different types of collagen. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And so in the skin, how many different types have we particularly got in the skin specifically? Well, skin is mostly collagen type one and type three, which are more elastic. So they are not because skin needs to be flexible, right? So we would not have collagen, which doesn't allow that flexibility. And then all that collagen, it's constantly being renewed by the skin. So concluding the idea of the half life, when it breaks down collagen breaks, so it's a protein will break down into smaller parts of the protein, which are the peptides. Everybody talks about peptides as if something invented. I mean, it's their replica of something which our skin is producing. And if we break it down further, we come to the building blocks called amino acids. So this breaking down doesn't mean that those peptides in the amino acids don't serve a purpose. You know, all our biological substances and tissues are too precious to break down and become trash. Nothing becomes trash. Everything, it's used, transformed, and becomes sometimes precursor to something else. And this is the lead we should take to understand collagen in skincare. It's that topical collagen has nothing to do with the dermis. It will never penetrate to the dermis. That's a false claim because it's molecularly too big to cross. And I think that's a really clear point and just be totally honest. Again, I think there's a lot of question marks around that. We'll come on to supplements as well, but it's obviously a similarity. Is it actually doing anything? But I know we've got quite a few questions about supplements. We can touch that even though I'm a skincare guy, but we can touch that. Okay. So as we've identified, collagen is a big thing of the skin. A big protein, yeah. Yeah. And applying it to the skin, we know it's not going to absorb. Yes. So what is the benefit? What's the process of that? What's it doing? So it will not absorb to the dermis, but it will absorb two layers of the epidermis where, so first as a protein, which is in the connective tissue, it's very hydrophil, very friend of water. So if nothing else, if nothing else, if you are very skeptic about collagen, it will always be a superficial super water, filler, captor, which you'll optically, if nothing else, replenish lines. But I would just challenge as well, this idea that it doesn't belong there and it comes from the depth is the same with the hyaluronic acid. You see, funny enough, everybody with the reason, I think hyaluronic acid, it's another very interesting tool in the toolbox for skincare, but it's also coming from the dermis only produced at a dermal level. It doesn't occur as a molecular in the epidermis, but nobody questions that. So everybody thinks a lot of hyaluronic acid, it's good, and it is, but it's this idea of breaking. Is it easier to formulate with hyaluronic acid than it is with collagen? Well, to stabilize it, it is, to stabilize it, it is. It's very interesting. I mean, I don't want to drag these too much technicalities, but you know, some of these bio very active substances. So when we say biology, we talk about these living substances, which nowadays a lot of them don't need to come from animal origin. We can touch that as well. It's not the case of collagen. Collagen is always animal origin. And that is probably something that worries a lot of people. So I think we should touch on that. Let's do that now. Okay. Because I think a lot of my followers, and I think a lot of people anyway into their skincare, I think cruelty-free and vegan are key things for certain people where they're just kind of coming from. And they're two separate, they're obviously combined, but obviously vegan is a different angle to cruelty-free. So maybe tell us a little bit about where most collagen, most effective collagen is derived from. Yeah? Yeah. This is super interesting because collagen nowadays, which also makes a difference from those times and then all the time gap of the decades where collagen was not so popular, because then collagen was obtained from less controlled, less sustainable origins. So you have basically two types of collagen in the cosmetic industry. So you have the soluble collagen, which goes through light, lysis with enzymes. So enzymes try to break it down to make the molecule a little bit less big so that it can penetrate better. Normally it comes from bovine origin, can come also from pork. At 3-slide we're not using the second also due to religious beliefs of target audiences so that we want to exclude anybody, even though it's biologically a good source for collagen. Then we have the marine collagen, which is the one we use in most of our formulations. Marine, of course, it also has this aura that people think, okay, it's marine, it's blue collagen. It comes from the ocean, it comes from algae. I don't know what people think, but it actually comes from fish skin and fish cartilage. But the beauty, I would say, nowadays of the sources as a raw material is that we can trace collagen, we obtain collagen from bovine origin for professional, only for professional. So you cannot buy the products with slime to use home, those products, only you can because we sent you one. I've got one here actually, so this is one of the professional ones. Yeah, exactly. This is only available in the treatments. Exactly. So that's only for beauticians, statisticians, professionals, dermatologists who apply it and it's like 92% collagen. I've got moisturizer on my hands, I can't open the pack. I know you don't have to, but I still want to answer your challenge about the cruelty-free in the vegan, because this is super, super important to get it right, to get it right. I detour a lot, I get excited when I can talk about ingredients, so it's my fault. So when you think that collagen we use, it's a byproduct of the food industry, I think we put the cruelty-free. Yeah, so no animal has been killed for this purpose whatsoever. Exactly. So it's already been in, like you said in the food industry, okay. Exactly. So it's animals are not slaughtered to obtain cosmetic ingredients. So this is basically skin that could become leather. So if you have some leather shoes or some Gucci Chanel bag, which is made of leather, so we are fighting with them. So either the collagen goes to them or the collagen comes to us. Interesting. I think that's a really important point actually, you know, because cruelty-free is really important and yes, absolutely, I think the vegan... Then it's not tested on animals, of course, vegan. It will never be vegan. I mean, if you hear about the vegan collagen, that's a marketing tag, that's an expression. Where are they going to, if it is, if they're saying it's vegan, where are they going to... Well, it is vegan, but it's not collagen. That's the point. It is vegan, it is vegan, but it's not collagen. So it's a amino acid. So we go back to the building blocks. Yeah. What we have to understand is that these building blocks imagine like a puzzle. To be collagen, the pieces need to be aligned in the certain sequence. There are actually some sort of pieces, which is hydroxy-proline, which is one amino acid, which only occurs in collagen. So only, that's the only protein where hydroxy-proline occurs. So if those pieces of the puzzle are correctly placed, your skin thinks this is collagen. Okay. So those vegan collagen, I believe, are amino acids, which are built to make some peptides. Of course, various peptides make a protein, and that's a vegan collagen, but it's not collagen. It can never be collagen. It's only an animal tissue protein. Interesting. So now I've managed to get this one open. What percentage collagen is this? Well, this is really crazy because when you look at that, it looks like a thin paper. It's 92% collagen, 92%. So 92. There is an activator, actually, yellow-eronic acid, exactly, with some lactic acid and some probiotics, which is applied by the professional. And then you get these membranes. So you kind of bring to life that membrane, which I think you tried, right? Yeah, I've tried it a few times, and I must admit, I'm not often wowed by the response. Right, I'm going to slightly divert because, obviously, it looks just like a sheet mask, which it is, but I'm guessing it's fully biodegradable. Yes, yes, it's 92, 90% collagen. Unlike your cliched sheet mask. So, you know, bizarrely, from an eco point of view, that's a good thing. But I definitely felt my skin felt and looked a lot plumper and hydrated just from using those two combined. And I was quite impressed with that, you know, I was. And actually, so from a treatment point of view, I did a needling treatment on my skin. Oh, yes, yes, perfect. And then, because I know that's totally safe to put on, even after, I know it's only a treatment, you know, it's not available for homies. But it's kind of safe to put on the skin, even after doing something slightly invasive. This is one of our, let's say, our signature treatment. So in the professional protocols, which are only done at the medic spas and the spas where you can find swiss line. And that's very interesting example, the micro needling, because when you think the needling, what is the needling doing is inflicting those controlled wounds, right? I mean, you were making micro wounds. Why does the collagen work so well? Because the collagen, like 92% collagen will signal repair. So that's the second life of the substance, you know, in very simple words, the role of the broken collagen in the skin is to tell deeper layers of the skin to produce more collagen. Because if there are broken pieces, something is broken. You know, your skin is not told. No, no, no, this is swiss line collagen. The skin doesn't know. So if there are broken pieces, which are coming from outside. So this is a trick tree, beautiful biological path in skincare, which is very exciting, which is what applies to peptides, growth factors, collagen. So the skin identical, they kind of trick, they chip the skin a little bit. And the skin starts behaving as a younger skin in terms of repair. Interesting. So it's also interesting that I think the vast majority of skincare brands now, I'm going to say the vast majority of future, they've got retinols, vitamin Cs, peptides, hyaluronics. But there isn't so many that are also including the collagen. But considering collagen is fundamental to the skin, I know we've got all these other things boosting cell turnover and doing all of those things. But it makes sense to me to actually be including something like that in your routine. Totally. It's the mix I would never say. So if you say, do I use collagen alone? And because collagen is 75% of the dry weight of the skin, that's all I need. I would say rubbish because that's a building block you are adding to your tools. When you say retinol, actually it's interesting because if you tell me one ingredient out of the toolbox, which is a booster for your own collagen synthesis, it will be retinol. Because retinol not only can penetrate much deeper, because it's a small molecule, but it's also the molecule which will trigger the fibroblast differentiation. So cells will know what to do when there is more retinol available. So this is tremendously interesting when you think skin biology. And I always come back to the same. You see, I'm a broken record because so few people are talking about this. So I chose for myself to play that role, which is to say your skin, it's a biological entity. It's not a marketing playground. So I don't care about faraway islands where you find a flower and that flower blooms at midnight. And you are, as much as I want the women in that island to have a job, I don't want to hear that. That's the reason for me to buy the skincare because I'm paying these women to pick up this flower. No, skincare, it's skin. It's what the skin wants. And then we can do right things, but with the right ingredients. So you're totally right. Retinol, glycolic acid, together with collagen, that's the bomb. So let's kind of sway slightly towards vitamin C, because I know you've mentioned that before when we've chatted, and that role in collagen production. Yes, but that's a bio cofactor in your nutrition, in your diet. So it's another very interesting, very misleading promise, is to say that topical vitamin C will increase the synthesis of collagen. So that's another blunt misunderstanding. Topical vitamin C, it won't stimulate collagen. No, it won't stimulate collagen. But if you eat it, it will. Yes. I mean, I think that's fascinating. And to you might be just commonplace that everyone knows, but I'm sure not everybody knows that. No, I think it's, you know, sometimes I say that people should pay less attention to brands. Look, the brand guy is saying this, right? Pay less attention to brands, ingredients and products, and try to understand your skin and your biology, because then nobody can really fool you. You know, you're already lucky if the vitamin C in your serum, when you open the serum, you're already lucky if the vitamin C is all there waiting for you. You know, it's a big challenge for formulation to stabilize vitamin C because antioxidants, that's what they do. They oxidize, you know, antioxidants are sacrificed molecules. They say, take me instead of take yourselves. But they are, by definition, very unstable. So to think that the vitamin C, let's believe it's still very available in the product, you apply it, it will cross your epidermis, right, untouched, unchanged, where it has to face all those free radicals, and the sebum and the enzymes and all that. And it will come to the dermis, to the fibroblasts, which are producing collagen. No, this is not going to happen. So it needs to be the vitamin C, which comes from your nutrition, which will feed your tissues. And then yes, you know, it's curvy. Okay, yeah, tell us, because I find that fascinating. It's curvy. It's curvy means like these, I mean, nowadays nobody, but it's the famous, you know, I'm not Swiss, I'm Portuguese. And Portuguese and Spaniards, we are like the 17th century sailing the world and all those sailors, they all had a short life. And that was curvy because they were basically not having access to vitamin C. And still today, some people say that's curvy, like bleeding of the gums and the joints and the loss of cartilage. It's because of vitamin C. Well, yes, it's the shortage of vitamin C, which leads to the destruction of collagen. So actually, scurvy is the loss of collagen in your connective tissues. So you were falling apart. Which is just again, fascinating. You know, so I think if anything, then if we want to be boosting our collagen from the inside, we need to be making sure that we've got enough vitamin C. Yes, vitamin C carotenoids for the retinal. So carotens, that's it. So I know you're the skin guy. Tell us a little bit about then the collagen from a supplement point of view. If we've kind of identified that actually vitamin C is kind of like the Holy Gray internally. What are then our thoughts about collagen internally? Well, I think it's the same idea. I go back to the half life. So if you ingest collagen, it will not reach intact. It will not cross your digestive tract. So as any protein, it will be broken down because that's how you metabolize the proteins. You cannot absorb a protein without cutting it into pieces. So your own enzymes, your own stomach will do that for you. So if people are under the impression that they should take collagen supplements, because that will add up to their collagen, it's a nonsense. It's a biological nonsense. But I will then say, if you are curious about supplements and also to give my testimony. So I personally, now I'm not talking on behalf of the company, but me personally, I take hydrolyzed collagen peptides type of supplements. So I don't believe in the gelatin, which is basically boiled collagen. You know, you make a you make a glue, which is great. So I'm not saying I don't eat gelatin. I'm just saying I don't believe gelatin is a food supplement to give you bioavailable collagen. Then you have the soluble and you have the hydrolyzed peptides. So more broken down pieces, which can cross less destroyed your digestive tract and help to signal the repair. So I think there are benefits. But I think much more than that. You should think not to ruin your collagen. So more than how to build collagen with food supplements. And by the way, just a parenthesis, most of them, the good ones will be bovine. More important than anything, grass fat and grass finished, which means that you are having a collagen from animals, which are grazing green grass. So they have nicer lives. Number one. And number two, they have not inflammation from all the grains and the ugly food that the less lucky animals are eating. Because otherwise, my dear, you're going to be ingesting trash protein. If it's not grass fed, so there are brands already occupying this niche, it's more expensive. But I would really advise people not to take any sort of collagen because it's going to be second, third choice protein. I know I'm doing a bit of research at the moment or actually a lot of research because I'm being sent a lot of collagen supplements. I think over the past five years, actually the industry has been bombarded so much with new supplements, but also specifically collagen. And there's a few that I'm being sent, which are more marine collagen based, whether it's from the fish skin or even the fish scales. So I'm guessing that's obviously totally different to the bovine. Yeah, it's a bit wider reason. So in all the retail products, as we were saying, the mask you've shown, which I mentioned, it's the bovine collagen from Germany. So again, green grass, happy animals. Of course, if you're a vegan, you say, no, I don't eat those animals. But if you're not a vegan, I think it's quite green approach to the ingredient. And for the products you can use home, like the serums or the greens, then we are using the marine collagen you mean. So in our case, it's more fish cartilage because it's better quality than the scales. Okay. Do you see the scales? It's a bit like the corneocytes. It's already keratin. It's too harsh. So the quality of the amino acids, it's another protein. Can I ask, is there a particular fish you use? It's just a thought that cropped up. Honestly, now you throw me under the bus, because you throw me under the bus, I even dropped the product. So I know we work with the laboratory in France, so the bovine comes from Germany, the fish comes from France. It's again like a byproduct of the food industry. But I would guess, I would guess that it's more cartilaginous fish, so those which have more of cartilage. But I believe it must be a mix. It cannot be just one species, because I don't think during the hydrolyzed process, so these enzymatic to separate and to make smaller peptides, it's for sure a mix of different fish. I cannot imagine having only one fish, I don't believe. Okay. Right, I also wanted to ask you, from a Swiss line point of view, Swiss line has been around for how many years? 30 years. 30 years. And I'm happy to be in for the last 13 already. Okay, but it's relatively new to the UK. Totally new, yes. We just started December last year. Okay, but I suppose I'm going to drop a name of La Prairie, which has been around for years, but it's kind of been around a similar age as La Prairie, is that right? Yes, no, La Prairie is before us. So La Prairie, the clinic La Prairie is from the 30s, so it's quite back there. We began in 1989. So La Prairie, the clinic is the 30s, the skincare is the late 60s. So La Prairie has maybe 20 years ahead of us. Okay. But that's not the reason why La Prairie is famous, then it's reality, then it's Biasdorf, it's a company, it's beautiful. I've worked six years for La Prairie, so when I say whatever I say, it's a beautiful brand, but it has a different destiny. It's owned by Biasdorf, so one of the bigger manufacturers of cosmetics, I mean Ivea Group, and so many pharmaceutical lines as well. So it's a very different destiny. We are private, we are secret jewel in Switzerland. Because I don't understand why you haven't been over in the UK already. Yeah, because we're waiting for this live chat, and then it's the moment. This exact moment. It's written in the stars. It's written in the stars. Brilliant. Okay, so I know at the moment, obviously we can't have treatments anywhere, but I know treatments is a big part of Switzerland as a brand. Is there anywhere in the UK at the moment, even without COVID, that there could be treatments or not yet? Not yet. So we are very glad with the way we started and we've been really preparing these, I think, I mean these things take time, right? So we are together with a business partner, which is called Skin Brands. I believe you might know them because they are distributed in the Medicaid brand, which I love, so to pay honor to UK engineering and nice formulations. You see they don't have collagen, they have great retinol, so try to mix both and you can have a good bond. And so Skin Brands, we started thinking to take more of the MedExPAD channel of distribution. Of course with COVID, they also reinvented themselves a little bit, so they have established a webshop, like a platform, which maybe I can invite your followers to visit, which is called theskinexparts.co.uk. So for the time being, Switzerland is only available there. Okay, so we do actually, I was going to mention at the end, but we do actually, I know we've organized a special discount. Yeah, you've dropped the gun, but absolutely fine. So I know we've got a 20% discount of theskinexparts.co.uk. To be honest, I'll do another story post and I'll mention all of these bits and pieces. But then a number of you guys watching and followers around the world, and then there's another website. Yeah. It's from SwissLineDirect. It's our headquarter ran, yes, the official global website. So there's just the one website purely for the UK, the first one we mentioned, and then SwissLine can ship globally. And we've also organized a 20% discount on that site. So all of that detail. I just want to make sure, because I printed out all of the questions that we had from some of my followers. And I want to make sure that we've answered all of them. I don't think we have. Right, hold on one second. Okay, well, we might have done, what's the best form of collagen to take? We've kind of discussed, we've got the bovine, we've got the marine, and you're kind of suggesting that the bovine is probably more effective. I think it's more bio identical. I mean, I'm not going to enter not very elegant comparisons, because I don't want to compare us to bovines. But for sure, we are closer as mammals than we are to fish, right? It's always biology, you see. So when you say people are confused, because they think too much about politics, they should think about biology and philosophy, and then nobody's lost. So often on a Sunday, if I do a roast dinner, I will then use the bones to make a bone broth. And then I will drink that through the, I'm guessing that's a similar thing as taking collagen supplements. Well, that's better. That's a much better thing. That's a much better thing, because you're going to have a bioactive, much more pure element. But you see, but that's why, because some people don't like bone broth. So that's why I think that the topical way for skincare, which is, of course, my bias. I mean, we all have our biases because we surround ourselves with the experiences. And of course, I hear people confirming, they see results, they are happy. So of course, we get our biases. So I would say, for me, the best way will be hydrolyzed either topical or hydrolyzed food supplement, if that's what the person wants to do. Grass fed, grass finished. Okay. Okay. That's my supplement. We've kind of covered how does collagen help the skin? Yeah. From what age? That's a good question. You know, I have the personal mantra that I never care about passport age. I care about the age you see in the mirror. So it doesn't really matter age. The thing is from 25 kind of your collagen metabolism starts changing because there is a down in the production and you have an overexpression due to life and then your lifestyle options can aggravate that you start breaking down more collagen. And that probably I think is the most useful thing to say. So what are the biggest enemies of collagen in terms of life options? Number one is exposure to the sun. That's the UVA, basically the rocket that penetrates and ruins collagen. So thinking sun protection also from the collagen angle is very important. Second will be sugar because glycation sugar attaches to proteins. So the more sugar you have in your diet, the more you break your collagen. I think that's a big thing for modern day living, that we've got so much sugar across all of it. Whether we realize it's in the food or not. Process. I mean all the processed food, of course you are just having different types of glucose but they all highly and the more processed they are, the more glycation you will endure. So those corn syrup, concentrated fructose, inverted, these are trash. That's trash. You better eat the cardboard box. But the three functions are worse because they've usually got the pretend sugar in, yeah? Yeah, well that's a different path so not necessarily, that will affect you, that's a theme for a different program. It will affect you not so much in the glycation because they're actually not the glucose but they will be understood by the body as highly inflammatory and actually very weird molecules. So basically your body doesn't know what to do with it. That's why I always say it's better to eat the cardboard box because it's cellulose. Well, a lot of probably paint. Can I still eat my chocolate though? That's the big question. Am I still going to eat chocolate? Well, again, if you choose a much more cacao, you can even educate your taste buds to go 90 cacao. I eat, I follow a ketogenic diet so I don't eat sugar basically, okay? But that's my option and I don't do it for the last probably five, six years and I think it's really, it has worked for me. So I educated my taste to 100% cacao and it's great. You just, it takes time. It's not so sweet but it's like a whole process. I think if you convince yourself, it gets easier. I've actually got into the habit. I gave it coffee a few years ago but I've now got into the habit. I drink red bush tea, so caffeine free, but I'm now having my dark chocolate with my red bush tea because it's giving me my kind of kick in the morning. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Okay, let me have a quick look at what else we've got. Natural ways to boost collagen. We've touched on that with diet, maybe supplements. The other thing I know one person's asked about is the micro-needling devices, which again isn't skincare but it's the topical side of it. What are your thoughts on micro-needling, if you have any? I think they should be in the hands of professionals. I think micro-needling has any trends. The problems with trends is that they open the way to the bad guys to enter. So you have everything mixed up. I think needles, micro-wounding, it's a way to inflict that controlled injury. So it needs to be done aseptically. So if you have your own roller that you just buy with your needles, which will oxidize, that you buy on eBay for 15 dollars, you're really on the way for disaster. So I'm not against micro-needling, but I think it needs to be handled because the depth of the needle, the diameter of the needle, the sharpness of the needle, so all those variants are crucial for the good result. But if it's all done well, with the right skincare, I think it's amazing for really rebuilt skin. I've never done it though, but I think it's great. I'm a huge fan. I love it. But I've been kind of treating skin for 20 years, so I should slightly know what I'm doing with that type of skin. Of course, of course, that's different. One of the questions I also wanted to ask you, what is Swiss Lines take on preserving products? Well, it's very interesting because, you know, the more you are active and the more you deliver results, the more you need to have preservation system in place. So our take, as everything, is what is that the skin wants, what is that the skin understands. So we have a choice of preservatives, of course. We have eliminated the parabens already more than five years ago, like most brands did. I mean, I think this is too much of a topic to discuss here. This could be another chart, you know, to date, it's known that some parabens were maybe actually not problematic at all. It's kind of the whole family got demonized because of isobutyl parabens. That was the one under the question mark. But then all the others because these cryptic words before that nobody knew what parabens are. So we use preservatives. We have to use preservatives to have biological, active, good products. So if someone, there's two ways, you know, it's like a scale. The more you increase the activity, you cannot decrease the preservation. So if you want to decrease the preservation, you have to also decrease the activity. So we need preservatives, but they are, I mean, dermatological, the whole thing nowadays, you know, it's a lot of fear mongering, unfortunately. So I think we should. The key thing with skincare is we want the actives because they're the things that are doing something on the skin, but we want the products to be safe in their formulation. Because actually putting something that's gone off on your skin is more detrimental. So it is that that fine balance. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Custodio, a few people have been saying, this guy knows loads. So you have a YouTube channel. It's good lighting. It's just the good lighting. That's not what's coming out of your mouth. That's your knowledge, which is amazing. Custodio, you have a YouTube channel. Is it called the age traveler? Age traveler, yes. Yes. So you can go and watch Custodio talking about lots of bits and pieces as well. Until you are totally bored. It's only like seven months. So it's still a small channel. Okay. But the idea was exactly, maybe to conclude just as you are, this is very dear to my heart because you know how these things are. When you start creating your own content, it becomes your baby, right? And the first instinct I had, which is the series called the perfect formula, which is almost ending. So I made the pyramid, which is like a schematic way to explain my take on skincare because we cannot buy all the products under the sun. We cannot know based on all the marketing trends what it's really relevant. So after 30 years working in the industry, I thought, let's put here what I really believe in collagen is there. But you'll see that it's not even the first or the second step. So I have other things there which are more priority. Okay. So I'll invite it of course to visit me there. Yeah. And I'm feeling, you know, there's so much more that we could talk about with ingredients and so, you know, maybe we need to be doing another one of these as well at some point as well. Always good. Yes. Next time I invite you to do it on our platform. Absolutely. I'm looking forward to experiencing an actual treatment at some point as well. So yeah. Well, talk to COVID. Talk to COVID and you can come to Switzerland. Yes. In your hands. We are here. We are waiting for you, my dear. I'll be there as soon as I can. Can I just say thank you so much for everybody who's joined in and watched. You know, I think it's been so interesting, everything that you've said. And I think when it comes to skincare, more knowledge helps you make better choices as the customer, as the person using products. So I think that's just, yeah. Thank you so much. My pleasure. I hope we've also managed to answer everybody's questions as well. So if not, I'm sure you wouldn't mind the occasional direct message. Not at all. They know where to find us. They know where to find us, right? So we are here. I will be sharing information about the special discount go that we've got for you guys. So, and yes, I will be trying to save this. Okay. So thank you so much. Right. Everybody enjoy the rest of your evening and we'll speak soon. Okay. Love from Switzerland. Ciao. Take care. Bye. Take care. Ciao.