 Felly mae Rana Gwlystan o Baswell, Imran Ahmed o Roly, Tair Mamoud o Blabon Central, Mwntazir Patel o Sheebrow a Cooperation, Ryff Howard o Blabon South East, Wachar Husain o Billingham Beardwood, Mr Iqbal Masters o Wensley Fold, Siraj Mohamed o Ewod, ac Mr Amin Cepadir o Orly o Queen's Park. Welcome, ladies and gents. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming, giving you up to the time for us and supporting us. We deeply honoured to host this event surrounded by individuals, organisations who share our vision and support our cause. On behalf of the Blackburn Redarren independence group, we extend a warm welcome and heartfelt gratitude for your unwavering support. We would like to express our appreciation to the Workers' Party and George Galloway. Round of applause for George, please, for their steadfast backing independent groups up and down the UK. The upcoming election, 2 May 2024, marks a pivotal movement in the UK politics. Never before have we witnessed such a significant wave of Labour councillors resigning and embracing independence. This presents a unique opportunity for voters to voice their opinions in mainstream politics by supporting the independent groups. The Labour Party, which once we supported, no longer aligns with our views, values or aspirations. As evidence by statement from Stalmer and our local Labour leader expressing indifferences to voters' support endorsing, oppression, action against Palestinians, it is clear that a change is needed. Local Labour leader has said the following. This is these words I'm quoting. I don't care if none of you vote for me. That's what he said, local, but Riley, I'm sure you've come across that one. And Stalmer, as you always know on the LBC, said that Israel has the right to cut off water, food, electric to 2 million Palestinians. Is this humane? Ask yourself that question when voting on 2 May. The historical context of King David hotel bombing, 1946, 22 July, 91 kill, was the start of the Zionist terrorist state of Israel. Hamas was created and supported by Israel in 1987 to counter PLO. If I do make a mistake, I'm sure George will correct me on the history of this, but maybe this is what my understanding is. And this was to underscore the complexities of the situation in the Middle East. Sporting Palestine does not equate to antisemitism or anti anything. We are spoting humans, regardless of the colour, creed, religion, whatever. A child is a child. A human is a human, whatever. We all bleed same. The suppression of dissident within the Labour Party demonstrates the directive to boycott pro-Palestinian events, raises concerns about freedoms of expression and accountability. Labour whip sent out emails to councillors, do not attend any pro-Palestinian gatherings of any time. I challenge any of the Labour councillors in Blackburn because we're in Blackburn or anywhere in the UK to prove me wrong on that subject. Israel's disregard for international law and human rights is taxed. Support from US highlights the need for principal leadership and global solidarity. How many UN resolutions are Israel ignored and no action is taken? The UN Security Council, when it comes to some of the other countries who may be ignored one resolution, they were invaded and plundered, murdered their citizens. This is history. I'm not here to give a longer history lesson here, but I'm sure just a bullet pointing would be good. We challenge Labour councillors to defend their position on Israel's actions and the treatment of members to advocate for justice in Palestine. If the crunch here with the Labour invite them here now or any time before the second of May, election just to come out and say we stand with Palestine or maybe say free Palestine. No sooner would they have said this, they would have either been kicked out or suspended. They are not allowed to even say that, but we can, we are independence. In Blackburn our commitment now coming down to the local ones, in Blackburn our independence councillor is excellent beyond the international issues. Is somebody messing about with my microphone? Okay, addressing such as housing, schools, roads, policing, cleansing and social issues, community centres, taxi drivers, local businesses and all, we can support them. Parking, local faith based interaction, which is very important, I think, to bring the communities together to understand each other. We pledge to serve our community and our voters in Blackburn. And then last but not least, we in Blackburn, I'm going to make this very, very clear for the Labour. We in Blackburn, we invite live, open dialogue and debate on any platform, television, radio, social media, before second of May elections to discuss debate, Labour's achievements on Palestine from any Labour MP or councillors of Blackburn with Darwin borough council. You know where we are? Thank you very much. I think they want me to finish there. That would be the last we invite them to come in and have a live debate with us. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for the Blackburn Independent. Anybody would like to ask any questions? Your hands are going up, that's good, they must be doing it. Go on, one second. Is Yasin here from Friends of a Lotta. In my speech earlier, I touched on how you need to focus on the youth and how their vote is also important for yourselves. So I want to know what you're going to do in engaging with the youth to try and convince them to vote for yourselves. I can tell you, part of my team is 17, 18 and 18. Two of them are here. Touch me and endorse our candidates please. I pray for the victory of each and every one of you. Each and every one of you. Absolutely. Thank you very much and thank you very much, Blackburn Independent. There's no any questions. Anybody have any questions for the independence? One second. First of all I would like to say that your bravery shows that you can stand up and you can still serve your community. It is immensely proud at this moment. I've come from Leicester and I'm proud to see that so many councillors from Leicester, sorry, from Blackburn, have stood up and proved that we can stand together and can still serve the community and I congratulate you from the bottom of my heart and I wish you every success in the next election as well. Very good. Sorry, just to confirm on that, these are our candidates. Can I ask the councillors to come forward as well please? Council from that council of hotel. Council must have a decide. Council of hotel. We're the independent councillors who stood down from Labour after we heard the speech from Angela that we don't matter. Yay! Have we got any of the councillors in the room who have stepped down from any of the town? Please stand up. Let's give them a round of applause please. Okay, thank you Chaps. You can go back to your work now. I feel personally honoured to be sharing the same stage as such esteemed guests. In particular this young man to my left Mr Galloway who needs no introduction but I would like to welcome him onto the podium but before I do I have to take an obligatory selfie standard. Chaps is known as the self-picking environment. Please put your hands together for Mr Galloway. Thank you very much brothers and sisters, comrades and friends. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakat. Andid mubarak to all faithful Muslims. May God accept your fast. I apologise for my late arrival. We had a very busy day attending to constituent issues in Rochdale because of course I am now the member of parliament for Rochdale. And I'd like to thank all the people from Blackburn who came many times during the by-election campaign. Our chief doesn't really have a title. Emteaz Ahmad who is there. Emteaz is the owner of the famous Suzuki garage which became synonymous with the campaign. I don't know if it sold many Suzuki's Emteaz. Maybe quite the contrary but we'll always remember that campaign in conjunction with the wonderful space that you gave us Emteaz is our chief. Young James is now 23 but he'll always be Young James. 24 he tells me was our election campaign coordinator in which case you're actually better off listening to him than me. The politics you know, the electioneering techniques and wizardry. You may not know so well. So feel free to buttonhole him. And our force of nature, our sister, Shanaz Sadiq who is our candidate in Oldham East and who is the real force of nature. She's a force of nature I can scarcely control her but that's a good thing because for any mistakes that she might make she makes ten great calls and ten great interventions. So that's our delegation here if you like. Yasir from Pudzi and other colleagues that I see around the room. Jack our dear friend and parliamentary candidate in Bolton to be announced later today. Jack is like many of you a former Labour councillor and there may be others that catch my eye in the course of my address that are standing either now in the local elections for us or getting ready to stand in the parliamentary elections. But more of that later. The young man at the front, African gentleman who made an intervention from the front asked what's the cause? What's the cause? There's no point in dealing only with the symptoms. We have to know, understand and analyse carefully and properly the cause. So in a paragraph brother, the cause is this. The Israel is a European white colonial settlement state practising apartheid just like all the other white European colonial settler states like the Belgian Congo like the Laffably entitled Dutch East Indies like the South Africa ruled by British and Dutch people like so-called Rhodesia like so-called so many other colonial states that were founded by the European empires in other people's territory on other people's land to steal other people's things. And in some cases yours included in Africa even to steal the people themselves. And we maintain a principled unwavering stand with the occupied against the occupier. We will never support the occupier, we will always support the occupied and it's not up to us to decide how they resist European occupation. This is a key point for the African National Congress under the leadership of Nelson Mandela including underground in apartheid South Africa from north to south east to west. It was not my decision what form the South African people's resistance to apartheid should take. And so when I joined it, I joined it without preconditions. That meant that if the armed wing of the African National Congress on Contian says with a spear of the nation mounted an armed intervention against apartheid I had to be a part of that. Whether I was a participant in it or approved it in advance or agreed with its nature was immaterial and so we in the workers party unconditionally support the right of the Palestinian people to resist their occupation in whichever way they decide. That's what solidarity means you see. It's not a pick and mix. You're not required to support Hamas. I don't in fact support Hamas in the sense that I wouldn't be voting for them. But I don't have a vote. It's the responsibility only of the Palestinian people to pick their own leaders. Not mine and definitely not our government. Definitely not the governments that are aiding the occupier in every crime that that occupier commits about which to more later. So we're here because we agree with the slogan. No ceasefire, no vote. That might be the only thing that some of you agree with me on. But it's a pretty big thing. It's a pretty important thing. And I'm willing if you are to park all the many maybe many other things that we disagree on to come together for that simple slogan. No ceasefire, no vote. That doesn't mean that I believe and I've been saying this since the beginning of the conflict. That a ceasefire whilst necessary is even remotely sufficient. A ceasefire merely means that for the moment the guns fall silent. But I've lived through many ceasefires. Many more than I could count. But they are always followed ineluctably by the outbreak of occupation violence versus the occupied or occupation violence. Against the occupier and the whole thing begins again. Five times I led convoys from London all the way to Gaza. Some of you I know were with me on some of those convoys. One person here was with me on three of those convoys. Those convoys were necessary because this all started long before October the 7th. The idea that October the 7th marked some new development is for the birds. You really have to be stupid to think that. There are some stupid people but there are also wicked people who want to persuade you of that falsehood. So that you will unequivocally condemn the action that was taken on October the 7th. But what about October the 6th? What about the previous October the 7th? What about all the October 7th? Since 1948 you all know these things and don't need me to lecture you on them. But it is clear that there will be no ceasefire. It is clear that the slaughter continues. I thought more full me you might say that the killing of seven foreign aid workers, three of them British, all three of them British military veterans would represent the opportunity for a sea change in our government's attitude to this issue. And I believed more full me when Rishi Sonak briefed the press that Britain was going to tell Netanyahu that they were legally advised that Israel was committing war crimes, crimes against humanity. And that ipso facto Britain could no longer supply weapons to Israel. And for a day or two both the British and American governments seemed to be rocking, seemed to be unstable in their positions but they've recovered. They've recovered their confidence. They've got, as we say in Glasgow, they've got their bottle back and they are doubling down on their support for the slaughter. And as the government does so the so-called opposition automatically follows. It looked for a day or two like Labour was going to follow the government down the road of concluding that we could no longer sell weapons to Israel because of crimes against humanity bordering if not over the border of genocide itself. But they too have doubled down. And therefore I say to you unequivocally I know there are some Labour people in the room but there's no getting away from this fact. If you vote Labour you're voting for genocide. You're voting for the great crime that has been committed against the Palestinian people. In a way I hear people say this councillor is quite a good person. Or this councillor got a car park for the mosque. Or this councillor or this MP even is sympathetic. That's not the point. They're standing for Labour. If you vote for them you're voting for Keir Starmer. He's their leader. No votes for Starmer. Genocide Starmer. Anybody who votes for Starmer votes for Labour is voting for genocide. This we have to insist upon. And so you need to decide how important was that car park for the mosque. Was it more important than all those children that Israel slaughtered with Labour's support? I just had a message from our candidate for police and crime commissioner in Bedfordshire in closing a BBC report today where Labour are demanding that our candidate withdraws his leaflet which accuses Labour of complicity in genocide. What should I do? Asked our candidate. Put it on a big, big banner and take it around Bedfordshire. And so I could say it in Arabic but let me say it in English. We say to these people, these councillors that might be good. These MPs that might not be that bad. Judge yourselves before you are judged. You had a chance before nominations closed to leave this rotten genocide party miscalled Labour. You've got another chance before polling day on the second of May. But your last chance is before the general election 2024. If you go into the general election of 2024 either as a candidate for Keir Starmer's Labour Party or an activist asking people to vote for putting Keir Starmer into 10 Downing Street, you are damned forever. You will never be forgiven by us, by our children, by history. Least of all will you be forgiven by the Palestinian people. So we have an iron-clad position on this. Never Labour, no Labour, whoever they are, whatever office they are standing for. It goes without saying, therefore. And I said it in relation to the Blackburn independence. Anybody who is standing against Labour and who can help Labour lose, we are with them. We are with them. We are with them and pray for their success. But, and this is the but. We believe it's far better if we all come together as one hand. One hand that can be seen, felt and cannot be confused. Now I know that's difficult for some people. Either because they don't like me, I probably don't like them. But that isn't the point. Or because they have political disagreements with us. Somebody lobbied me on the way in about trans rights. You may have a different point of view from me on trans rights. Or on trade unionism. Or on net zero targets, you may. And that may be such a big issue for you that you cannot join with us. But I ask you to think about what can be achieved by having our logo on your ballot paper. First of all it means you can't be confused with anybody else. You know independence are great. But how do you define the independence? An independent group is even better. But what if another independent group also decides to stand? What if your name is Muhammad Abdul and there's a Muhammad Abdul on the other list? What if there's confusion amongst the electorate with no logo, no symbol and all kinds of people claiming to be independent? We're standing hundreds of candidates at the general election. They'll all have the same symbol. They'll all have the same colours. We'll have a party political broadcast on television. We'll be included in every opinion poll. So you'll be able to measure how it's going. We'll have to be on the leader's debates. There are many advantages to being part of a political party that post-Rochdale is growing at a phenomenal rate. As James will tell you, I spend an inordinate amount of time as I'm about to do in the corridor after this speech hearing people who want tickets to stand for our party in the parliamentary election. We could stand in every seat in Britain twice with the number of people who want to be candidates. And I have to try and wisely adjudicate on competing claims. But that's a powerful national force. It's not the same as an independent. I repeat what I said, I support the independence. Whoever stands against Labour as an independent, I'll support them. But if we have a candidate in that constituency, we cannot guarantee that we will not be up against an independent, maybe three independents at the general election. We'll try to be wise, but we have a project. And our project is not just about Gaza. Gaza is what brings us here in such numbers together here in Blackburn today. But we don't think either that Gaza is the only issue or that foreign policy is the only policy that matters. We believe that Britain has been betrayed by the Uniparty on all kinds of things. And this post-industrial malaise into which our country has sunk, lost its moorings, prey to any quackery that comes along as the latest fad out of California, prey to the latest demands of whoever is the President of the United States. I supported Brexit because I wanted Britain to be an independent country, an independent country that didn't take orders from Washington or from Brussels. That's the kind of Britain I want to see. Now Craig Murray is standing here in Blackburn. He's been here before. The Honourable Craig Murray could have been living a very, very comfortable life. Could have been in the House of Lords. He was a British ambassador at a young age and of the highest caliber. Another ambassador, friend of ours, told me recently that he used to read Craig's circular. These ambassadors send each other on a circular basis. Some ruminations notes on the situation in their country and how they see the world situation. And that ambassador told me that he used to marvel at Craig Murray's. Circular. His grasp. His literacy. His erudition, wisdom, wit. I'll tell you we're giving you a Cristiano Ronaldo here in Blackburn. Standing for the White House Party. He stood here before, you know. Some of you may remember his green fire engine going through the streets. For some that's the most memorable memory of the campaign, but mine is a different one. Sorry to put it. Some of you may even have been involved, I hope not. My main memory of when Craig stood last time here in Blackburn was the Muslims carrying Jack Straw on their shoulder out of the count after Jack Straw had beaten him. Jack Straw. Dripping in blood. Dripping in Iraqi blood. Muslims were carrying him out of the count. What kind of Muslims could they be? What kind of slave mentality is that? Just two years before Jack Straw had killed what became a million Iraqis, every one of them almost a Muslim. So I'm saying to the people in Blackburn, this is your chance to redeem yourselves. This is your chance to spit on the name Jack Straw and elect the honourable Craig Murray as your member of parliament at the next general election. Wassalamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakat. Ladies and gentlemen, Craig Murray for Blackburn. I can even see his forthcoming merchandise to be CM7, so it's quite appropriate to be fair. Mr Murray, CM7 is going to be your merchandise I'm thinking going forward. Let's get it on, inshallah. Thank you very much for that very inspirational talk, Mr Galloway as always to you for that. I would like to introduce our next guest, Mr Shorcaad, an independent parliamentary candidate for Leicester. He is also the brother of Ismael Patelffan. Let me all greet you all with the universal salutations of peace. Wassalamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakat. The dynamics of being given an impromptive speech is twofold. One is I'll be less structured than even normal and secondly at least I'll be very very short cos I wasn't expecting to speak. But after George I don't think many words need to be said. I am, some people let's say, are pragmatists tinged with idealism. I am an idealist tinged with pragmatism. And on that basis I'm going to explain my motivation and my inspiration to stand as an independent candidate for somebody who has never even been part of any political party. I am a healthcare profession but my passion has always been to fight wrongs, injustices, bigotry, racism and in particular Islamophobia because that happens to be the faith that I have been born into. In the last ten years there have been a catalogue of activities, actions, disasters, mostly man-made. And we have seen that those that are on the lowest socio-economic levels, those that are minorities and in particular those that are Muslims have bared the brunt of all of us. So if we take Brexit that our George voted for, the consequences and at the time of that Brexit it was fair game, it was fair game to attack anybody that was different. We see the subsequent of that, the financial crisis that hit, it was the minorities and the Muslim community and anybody that was slightly different that bared the brunt of it. Moving on we had Covid during which time it was because of Asians and in particular Muslims and particularly in my city Leicester the virus wouldn't go away whilst they were having parties in the House of Commons. We have had in our city a real rise in certain nationalism which is causing friction between communities and it was multiculturalism isn't working. And then my inspiration. My inspiration is what is happening that everybody has said today is through the people of Gaza. Four months ago I had no ambition of having the letters MP next to my name. As I said I have never even been a member of a political party. I went to speak along with 20, 25 of community members to the incumbent John Ashworth, a Labour shadow cabinet minister with a 22,000 majority. To my shame I begged him. Some people asked him, some people shouted at him. I begged him for one thing because God forgive me by that stage only, only 5,000 innocent men, women and children had been murdered. And all I asked of him was I want you to ask for is an immediate ceasefire. An immediate ceasefire. Nothing more, nothing controversial. Just an immediate ceasefire. You are representing a community like that has been said before. 71% of which wanted that. We gave him 72 hours to respond. He did not respond. We contacted him again two weeks later who responded with an email, a letter which I will release closer to the time of the election when he articulated that Gaza is not really that important to the Muslim community and it's not really the only sole reason they will vote for me and there are other votes I can have and I really don't need the Muslim vote but this is a vote for humanity he does not understand this. And that is why community members decided to stand and select an individual to combat this narrative for so long that all these incidences happen that has never been a voice that stood out for us because the status quo between the Labour Party and the Tory Party, the Tory Party actually completes the Labour Party and the Labour Party actually completes the Tory Party. There is no dissimilarity but up till this point they've never had an option to vote for anybody else. And that is why in the past three months as an independent we have created an entire network of a policy team, a social media team, a finance team, a legal team and a complete strategy team. And we have in the past few weeks garnered so much support that God willing when the election comes there will be one of the biggest political over turns in history when we over turn these 22,000 majority. I will end in this very, very quickly. There are people here from friends of Al-Aqsa and there's people here from other campaigning groups and I do not wish to demean the work that they do but I do not wish my children or my children's children to march in the streets in the cold weather when it's raining and cold for the protection of the blowing up of innocent children. That is not something that I want for them to do but that is exactly and precisely they will do that if we do not make the change that we want to see in the world. The best time to have planted a tree, the best time to have planted a tree was 25 years ago. The second best time is today and that is why we are going to make the change. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So we have now Mr Giles. I would like to say a few words or James Giles please. Thank you all and good afternoon. My name is Councillor James Giles. I am an independent leader of the opposition on Kingston Council which is down in South West London. I was at the London No Seize Fire No Vote Conference and it's a pleasure to be up here as well and seeing a number of familiar faces here in the audience. Just very briefly on practicalities if I may I ran George's campaign in Rochdale and God willing come the general will hold that seat with many more to come. But the left for many years if you ask me its biggest weakness has been factionalism, division, people disagreeing on ultimately quite minor points and I praise the efforts of people who have tried to set up numerous movements over time but the shifts, the plates are shifting in British politics and this really to me is a moment and if we don't come together now under an umbrella and seize the opportunity that we have well it will be a wasted opportunity. These come by once in a generation maybe even once in a lifetime and so it's great to see so many here today and my plea to you only very briefly is this if you are standing, if you're considering standing come and speak to us before the day is up we want to hear from you we want to know who you are because united we succeed, divided we fall. That's all I have to say Celine there's a lady with her hand up back there. My question is to Shanas Shanas it's okay if you don't remember me you are highly competent I can vouch for her it's okay if you don't remember me she is highly competent I know you're standing for Oldham East I wish you all the best she is competent, we're in Dublin so you know anyway other than the Gaza issue what is your concern for Oldham? She's coming in as a speaker next Thank you all, thank you very much Thank you for that James so on that note I would like to invite Shanas Adiki if that's okay Shanas is a prospective parliamentary candidate for Oldham and Saddleworth for the Workers' Party Britain and to be honest needs no introduction either described most recently in national media as a right hand woman of George Galloway and a force to be reckoned with which has been confirmed also Shanas started her career as a college lecturer in 1990 with 18 years of service at Akrington College and went on to lead the business development team supporting hundreds of businesses to access literacy and numeracy in the workplace across East Lancashire Shanas was the CEO and director of a group of private sector colleges and went on to be a freelance journalist speaking out against human rights atrocities speaking locally, nationally and on international platforms including the European Union on Kashmir and Palestine along with their experience as a magistrate she has worked alongside many businesses and charities including in Blackburn with Asian Business Federation and many more Ladies and gentlemen please welcome Shanas Adiki Os y byddlehem i'n eisiau dwan yr adgrifennu bismillarach bwan yr ahim Aslan y cwm, good afternoon and thank you Thank you Blackburn Independent Group for bringing us all together in this building and before I go on to answer that question Blackburn is a place where I've canvassed Blackburn is a place where I've gone through the streets and Blackburn was a place that I stood up against Jack Straw when he spoke about Muslim women and the veil and the niqab and then apologise I was then for my many mistakes George a member of the Labour Party but many of us were and like you said for the mistakes that we make we hope that Allah gives us the strength and the direction to rectify those mistakes and move forward and he's on that note of moving forward that I want to start Gaza is important to us and Gaza is important to me as a daughter of Kashmir The right for self determination is a right that is given to us ordained to us by Allah Subhanatala that then is endorsed by those said perpetrators that denials that same right If we had stood united and we had recognised the fall of those people and the occupation of those people decades before as we do now perhaps we would not be here today Seventh of October was written in history for people that were killed but there's been a normalisation 30 people, 300 people, 30,000 people and will grow we no longer ask the question of how many we now ask the question by whom by whom, by whom ask yourself the question by whom it's not just the Labour Party and the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party have now jumped on the bad wagon by abolishing their position on NATO is people like you, people like me who are responsible and why are we responsible because I do remember that day George when the Muslim community picked Jock's grow up on his shoulders and celebrated a victory what they should have done is redeemed themselves and thrown him off those shoulders held him accountable for the people that he killed not about Muslims let's not be mistaken fifth nigh is created and I do not apologise for calling Shunach the voice of a devil I will continue to call him the voice of the devil because it's people like him that divide and rule and we are asking the question who and yes we are reminded about the cause but should we be reminded about the cause why should we be reminded of the cause it's beyond that it's beyond that because we are simple human beings watch it on our TikTok we watch it on our Twitter feeds we watch it on the TV screens if we are allowed depending on what channel we are tuned in to it's a norm I actually remember during Covid I started to tweet about the people that were dying during Covid and then I stopped I said Shunach that's what you're doing you're telling people so many people have died today in Blackburn so many people have died in Berlin so many people have died in Manchester and to me it became an acceptable norm it cannot be an acceptable norm do not allow it to be an acceptable norm that people around us are dying and we're begging for people to speak up against them I've spent over 30 years campaigning up and down the country up and down the country and looking across to our politicians I'm wondering why I no longer wonder why because I have no expectations of them they are complicitly involved in genocide genocide is the killing of people it's the removing of generations and it's done on target and purposely not by mistake you don't mistakenly kill someone you don't mistakenly remove a whole generation and you don't use apps and data or IQ or whatever you call it you don't use those things to be able to kill people without actually thinking it through and planning and when planning is done it means it's malicious when planning is done it means that they've actually thought it through it's not a mistake and do not be mistaken that it's a mistake we are not idiots I can do this and I only have one way of knowing that we are on the right path is when we all stand united and yes my brothers and sisters are here as independents and yes morally we're with you and yes we will support you but I ask you the question why why do we need to be independents why can't we be one force why can't we stand together and why can't we move forward and to me the only reason is fitna in Blackburn we have Pakistani community we have the Indian community we have Gujarati community we have those that people may not be of any particular favour background and mixed communities but we're all one we're all one Oman and those people that are dividing us and are creating that friction between us tell them just as we're saying no to people that are explicitly involved we're also saying no to those people those leaders that pretend that they're doing otherwise so finally my sister when we stand as parliamentarians we stand within a party structure as I do within the workers party and we have a manifesto that clearly outlines our position and it clearly outlines our position on the international politics on foreign affairs but also on national agenda and our agenda is very clear our agenda is about being the voice of those people that have been forgotten it is about understanding for industries making sure that interest comes in poverty, education, crime clear difference about us and the next person is this is that we mean it we mean it we will do whatever is in our power to ensure it happens local councillors you are a formidable force local councillors you are the backbone of the general election if anybody access to you how are you going to make a difference tell them is we know our communities so anybody that's here as a councillor standing in the next local elections you always with Saddleworth will be working with all the local councillors to ensure that what we pledge to do will make it happen thank you thank you Shanaaz for that really really appreciate it I would like to introduce our next guest who is Lotte Collette correct thank you councillor Lotte Collette is the leader of the independent socialist group on Haringey council in north London she along with other members of the independent socialist group left Labour principally over Gaza but all of the group acknowledged that Gaza was the end point of a long process of the disillusion with the disillusional Labour and the group presses the council not just on war in Gaza but on many other issues including the question of workers rights in local government please welcome Lotte Collette brothers and sisters here today in Blackburn my heartfelt thanks and greetings from my comrades in the independent socialist group on Haringey council in north London you have all made us feel extremely welcome today thank you genocide in Gaza is the most important domestic international political issue of the moment how we respond to this is crucial if we are to be on the right side of history Israel's response to the events of the 7th of October have been disproportionate over 30,000 human lives lost it is not a legitimate war aim it's a genocidal aim cutting off water, food and fuel is not illegal or a legitimate tool of war it is genocide the Palestinians that survive will be pushed into the Sinai desert beyond Rafa pushed out of their own lands yet again this is genocide with an aim to grab land and develop beach side properties already advertised in the US the IDF have hunted down and murdered aid workers and members of the free press even the Tories are starting to divide and question the support for Netanyahu's Israel Starmer split the Labour Party in October last year when he pushed the Israeli self defence argument onto us stifling all debate that is why many of us left Labour and now sit as independence but when the fighting stops what are we as independence to do no meek return to Labour they've shaken off their fleas and we are forging new communities in which to grow in Haringey initially we tried as a left block within Labour left groups opposed and defeated the mass privatisation of the council's residential and commercial property portfolio known as the HDV but within Labour our left block fell victim to the strong on right wing Labour thugs run by David Evans on behalf of Starmer a left block within Labour has limited horizons more than anything this demonstrates the need for this independent movement of councillors our sincerest good luck to all those standing for election on the 2nd of May and to the allied movement of independent EBCs contesting the general election for Palestine we have to keep up the campaign against the colonial settler regime in what will remain of Gaza the west bank and east Jerusalem we must target local government pension funds for divestment from complicit corporations we must call out the apartheid regime on the truth and the cruelty of the Israeli state Nicaragua is taking Germany to the international courts of justice over its continued arms sales to Israel we have the opportunity to amplify the voices of the marginalised and stand in unwavering solidarity with the people of Palestine by forging deeper connections with movements advocating for Palestinian rights around the world and embracing the lessons coming from Latin America and fostering a more just and equitable world for us all we stand with Nicaragua, with Cuba and our comrades in Latin America we stand with our comrades at the Berlin Congress for Palestine who were forcibly shut down by the police climate change is not only a global issue it is local every decision made by a council must be measured against a green index if it fails we must hold officers to account to find alternative green solutions for all that we are responsible for tackling climate change for a healthy borough and a healthy world we need a new green approach to public transport particularly where buses have passed from municipal control to private operators remote communities need connectivity not the private sector creaming off their profit we must promote massive expansion of sustainable council housing our cities and towns are full of substandard homes where private landlords hold sway over the people we must fight for fair rents for decent homes councils have responsibility for healthcare we must block privatisation of the national health service you are not welcome here councils should be the vehicles of equality across our community promoting human rights for all regardless of race, faith, disability, sexuality or gender all people should be heard and there is no place for the racist prevent programme all of our council services should be provided by council employees ending privatisation and contracting out we have had 40 years of attacks on our trade unions we need to stand up for workers rights as councillors we must push our councils to pledge never to issue a work notice when confronted with a strike by staff we should never break a strike because covered by the minimum service levels work notices include our teachers our sound drivers and our firefighters make sure you have got one of these code on the back I need everyone involved in this campaign these are some of the principles these are the values that an independent left of labour councillors movement should hold and should cherish thank you very much for that we really appreciate that just to reiterate defend the right to strike and there is a barcode on the back for you all to sign up so please make sure you get on to that thank you very valuable information without further ado we have a lady who has been sat very patiently since the morning like most of us but she has been particularly patient Salma Yku Salma has been a tireless campaigner for equality, justice and peace one of the leaders of the anti-war movement standing against racism and Islamophobia when Tony Blair invaded Iraq with the support of the Tories ignoring the millions who protested against the war she co-founded and was a leader of the National Respect Party and was elected twice as a local councillor in Birmingham and came close to unseating the Labour MP Salma trained as a psychotherapist and works for the NHS where she has been a senior manager in the NHS for over a decade and is a member of Unite the Union she briefly joined the Labour Party when Jeremy Corbyn was leader and was shortlisted for Labour's West Midlands mayor selection but is supporting the movement for independent councillors and MPs in the current context Ladies and gentlemen Salma Yku Thank you Peace, peace, peace be upon you and upon us all My brother introduced me having been patient just because I've been here since the morning he wasn't patient I wanted to hear I wanted to listen I wanted to be with you at this time because my brothers and sisters this is a key time there are certain points in history where days and months affect the next century and I believe that we are at that time now and what you are doing here is important not just for Blackburn but for the country I salute all of those councillors who bravely resigned and I salute all of those who are standing as independents because not everybody has done that I've come from Birmingham we are the largest local authority in Europe and not one single Labour councillor resigned it shames me so I've come for inspiration as much as to speak to you because we know what those pools are we know what those whispers are they just stay it doesn't make that much difference what are you going to do that's going to change things these things are out of our hands it's foreign policies over there it's bigger than us just carry on with our lives but no there comes a time when moral courage has to be drawn on where we have to inspire each other and remind each other and it's not a war that is thousands of miles away it's a war that's been conducted from here just a few miles from here the factories which are making components for the very bombs and missiles which are causing the limbs and bodies of innocent guards and children to be torn apart and it's not enough for us to say oh my heart breaks when I look at those TikTok videos I just can't bear to look at it bearing witness bearing witness is the least of it but we are in a country which has a say it's still a better one to be we know that whole overt empire days are over on the coattails of America but still what the United Kingdom says and does carries a ripple across the world and if we don't say not in our name then it can continue to do what it's doing so when Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer unite as one pretending that they're opposing each other but unite as one when it comes to defending the atrocities and not just defending the atrocities but being wholly complicit in the atrocities by using your taxpayer money, my taxpayer money to fund the very genocide that we are witnessing that we cannot say it's got nothing to do with us we cannot say it's somebody else's business it is our business and the one thing the one thing that these cowardly immoral politicians fear and care about is a vote for them to keep them in their positions we know every other day of the year apart from election day our voice doesn't matter it's the lobbyist's voice and the lobbyist's money that puts them there, that keeps them there that keeps them doing the lines that we are sick of hearing when we say how can they possibly do that I'll tell you why because we've bought off my friend Andrew is going to be speaking next we've bought off the facts and figures of the arms industry and the lobbyists and who has paid what for their line to be sold and for the innocent lives to be torn apart as a collateral damage for their profits but we have a say on election day and that's why that responsibility is a heavy one and an important one so I beg you, I ask you please support each and every independent that is standing on a platform to be a voice for the people of Gaza and for a progressive a progressive politics here because again there is no separation have you not seen how our own democracy has been totally impacted by the conduct of our foreign policy our freedoms hard won freedoms are being taken away one by one what's happened in Germany last night would have seemed almost unimaginable that a British doctor was arrested at an airport simply for wanting to go to a conference to bear witness of what he'd seen in Gaza had 2,000 German police tried to shut down a peaceful pro-Palestinian indoor rally and it's happening here in the UK where today today is a special day not just because of what's happening here in Blackboard but because we've got a massive march in London again turned out to be a voice for the people of Palestine and again it'll be called a hate march by our so-called leaders because they just dare to speak the truth to be humanitarian and they are called extremists because in this country now to speak up you are going to be called an extremist and we've seen the things that Michael Gove and his mates are drawing up 20 years ago when we started the Stop the War Coalition we predicted then we predicted then that in their drive for war abroad they would attack the civil liberties here and have an increase in Islamophobia and it's sad but true that that has come to pass but even I could not have predicted that 20 years later would have such a brazen situation where now they cannot even pretend at least there was a bit of a debate about the weapons of mass destruction it was a weapon of mass destruction of course because many of us knew then it was a lie but okay some people bought into that lie we didn't have social media but today there is no excuse we know we know there's a live genocide so if this time people vote for the parties which are promoting the genocide then we really cannot look ourselves in the mirror again and the revolution here in the north and if we've had Rochdale we've shown what can happen that people do not have to be taken for granted because that's the way the system is set up you don't vote for one you vote for the other you said no change is coming and the people of the north are showing that way and so do not be disheartened do not slow down this is the time to stand up they want us to feel that it's hopeless but it's time to get up off our knees it's time to stop feeling so hopeless if the people of Palestine after 75 years of physical emotional brutality waged against them are still are still standing up for dignity and freedom they're not coming with begging bowls they're just simply standing for freedom and they too are our inspiration that despite the lies against them despite the dehumanising where even babies where even babies are justified as being legitimate targets by the Israeli government that our own government cannot bear to even condemn it with words and the very weak that we see the atrocities increase they say will send them more weapons anyway we are the last line with the vestiges of democracy that we have left to use that precious vote so in the next 19 days you have a chance to send a powerful message of sending a whole group of independent councillors and pave the way for some more independent MPs and I want to see I want to see people like Andrew Feinstein elected in London I want to see Craig Murray elected in Blackbird we want to see a change up and down this country because I'm a realist I'd love to see a whole new change it's not going to happen guys Keir Starmer is likely going to be the PM but we cannot we cannot allow that to happen without serious opposition serious pressure and a mass movement being built from now which over the next few years this is why I've been cautious and realistic and determined that this has got to be a long turn battle a battle for the future of the people of this country for our NHS I've been introduced as somebody who's worked for the NHS I'm proud to I get told week in week out there is no more money yet just the last few days we were told we can increase spending on arms the magic money tree is there for their walls the austerity that we were told to be imposed they found billions and billions of pounds to give to their mates when it came to go Covid for PPE which was never even used we are the sixth richest country in the world we have the means we have the resources for dignity and services for all to have housing building programme which allows accommodation for people in this country to live with dignity but it's choices so that a few people can get even richer that's what it's down to human choice and we're here to say we're going to exercise our choice and we are not going to put up with a shower that we have at the moment we are going to make our choices we are going to create our choices and the time for change is now, thank you wow, thank you very much well worth the wait and absolutely right, we are all warriors in this battle don your battle gear we will succeed thank you very much for that just in case you're wondering where Mr Galloway has gone he's still here he's just having a bit of a breather he will be back for your Q&As very shortly our next guest again it gives me great pride and pleasure to introduce Mr Andrew Feinstein I hope I pronounced that correctly if not, sack me now I'm worthy of it former ANCMP who served under Nelson Mandela author of The Shadow World inside the global arms trade and is likely to stand against Keir Starmer in Holburn and St Pancras Mr Feinstein, thank you thank you very much and first of all thank you to the organisers for the invitation it's an enormous honour to be here with all of you to speak after Selma after Craig after George and to see so many absolutely brilliant independent candidates at a time of great difficulty it is these sorts of meetings it is the resolve of so many people to show the courage that Selma was talking about to take on our corrupt mendacious mediocre politicians both in the local and the forthcoming general election that gives me hope I must at the outset apologise for the fact that I haven't been here the whole day I was supposed to last night be participating in the Solidarity Conference with Palestine in Berlin I was supposed to be speaking on a panel with Dr Gassan Abu Sita Dr Gassan is a British Palestinian doctor he is involved with health workers for Palestine he has been in and out of Gaza over the last six months to attempt to help those who are suffering he was invited to Berlin by the conference organisers to give a first hand account of the genocide the Germany, the United States Britain and many other Western European countries are complicit in he was arrested at the airport in Berlin and interrogated for three hours he was then deported and sent back to Britain now let's just think for a moment Germany is a country that has committed two genocides in its history for those of you who don't know the indigenous people of Namibia were the victims of a genocide by the German state my own mother lost dozens of her family in Germany's second genocide the Holocaust these people were gassed in Auschwitz where I've had the honour of lecturing on genocide prevention this is a country that is now providing not just political diplomatic cover for the state of Israel as it commits genocide in Gaza but is providing a significant number of the weapons that are being used to commit that genocide just as is the case with the United Kingdom yesterday at the conference in solidarity with the people of Gaza first of all the police arrested a German Jew standing outside the conference venue with a placard that identified himself as a Jew against genocide they then would not allow people to go into the conference venue then they stopped Dr. Gassan for even turning up for the panel that he and I were supposed to speak on but an hour and a half before that panel was due to take place the German police stormed the venue cut off the electricity and the power and brought the conference to a halt now I don't know about you but from the little bits of history I've picked up in my life that sort of behaviour is what we know as fascism Germany is prepared to destroy its own democracy its own freedom of speech its own right to protest to defend the indefensible to defend the genocide being perpetrated against the people of Gaza Germany is the last country on the planet that should be displaying such fascist behaviour and as a Jew as a Jew as the son of a holocaust survivor as someone who served with Nelson Mandela and introduced the first ever motion on the holocaust in the entire history of the South African Parliament I am disgusted and appalled by the behaviour of the German government but let me tell you something and this is not going to come as a shock to you the British government is not very far behind the behaviour towards the massive marches that have been taking place not just in London but across the country week after week as the vast majority of British people say and have been saying for six months we demand an immediate ceasefire the attitude of our government and our so-called opposition describing those marches as hate marches claiming that they undermine democracy because they call to account our politicians who are benefiting from this genocide this is corroding our democracy this is obliterating our right to speak our right to speak what we want where we want about whom we want and it cannot continue and the only way we are going to stop it is by hurting these people as Selma said where they hurt most at the ballot box and in their pockets and let me explain to you why I talk about the notion of our politicians and our political processes why we have to talk about Gaza in the same breath that we talk about the tough local issues that face our constituents every single day because they are inextricably linked together and it is really important that as candidates these links every day across the country in as many localities as we can the global trade in weapons which I've been investigating for 23 years now is the most corrupt of all trades it accounts for 40% of all corruption in all global trade that is a truly terrifying number in my own country South Africa just four years into our democracy BAE Systems and Tony Blair turned up to bribe our newly elected politicians in order for BAE Systems to win an arms contract that they were not even shortlisted for they paid 115 million pounds of bribes to cabinet ministers to senior officials to the head of the defence force to executives in our state arms corporation and at the same time they were doing that in South Africa they were paying over a billion pounds of bribes in seven other countries around the world destroying those countries democracies making those countries poorer but also undermining the rule of law written itself and corrupting our politics here because these massive bribes that are paid on each and every arms deal around the world don't only go to the buying country some of those bribes come back to the senior executives at our defence companies to our political parties the defence companies have been the biggest donors to political parties in the western world since the second world war and some of that money go to our politicians as well sometimes even when they're in office so on the El Yamamad deal with Saudi Arabia Mark Thatcher, the son of the then prime minister was paid 12 million pounds in bribes Tony Blair since he has left office has made a conservative estimate over 110 million pounds personally from the decision to invade Iraq and from his association with British and American arms companies but how do they do this how do these bribes continue that oil the wheels of the illegal systems by ever increasing defence budgets in 2023 Britain spent 53 billion pounds on defence that excludes what they are spending to renew our nuclear weapons a renewal that will ultimately cost you and me the taxpayer 172 billion pounds so we need to have these ridiculously high defence budgets so that the bribes can be paid so that the political parties can be funded so that our politicians can be rich and that is why my constituency MP here Starmer knows that when he occupies Downing Street for the length of time that Liz trusted do any of you remember her she was the one who was the resident there for all of 49 days 49 days that cost you and me 74 billion pounds because of her incompetence Starmer knows that if he makes the right decisions even if he was only there for 49 days he would be a multimillionaire for the rest of his life and this is what is profoundly wrong with our politics and it is why in this country we have the best democracy that money can buy and it is also why here Starmer has pledged to increase British defence spending from 2% to 2.5% of GDP by tens of billions of pounds and why he said he is 100% committed to renewing our nuclear weapons these tens of billions of pounds are money that should be coming into our communities that should be helping us who are struggling with the cost of living crisis that should be improving the NHS not denuding it of money that should be improving our education system that should be ensuring people are paid a living wage for the work that they do and receive benefits that enable them to live a decent life but our country and the economics of our country and the politics of our country have been destroyed and atrophied by neoliberalism and Keir Starmer is only the latest cheerleader for that neoliberalism and let us not forget while he is talking about being an unqualified supporter of modernising our nuclear weapons what was one of the first things he said after he was elected leader of the Labour Party a supposedly democratic socialist party he said I am an unqualified Zionist and because of the fact that he has received amongst others four and a half million pounds the biggest individual donation in the history of the Labour Party from a South African billionaire called Gary Lubner whose only political interest is ensuring there is no criticism of Israel Keir Starmer who claims to have been a human rights lawyer has yet to pass comment on the interim ruling of the International Court of Justice in the case brought by my country South Africa against the State of Israel this is a human rights lawyer who has lost all humanity we cannot we cannot allow this man to simply walk into Downing Street with a huge majority to do the damage he wants to do to this country so as we hurtle towards the local elections as we think about the general election that will be held sometime this year let us remind ourselves that when we say no ceasefire, no vote when we demand that British arms sales to Israel which are in terms of British law illegal let alone international law when we say this and when we demand an end to brutal illegal occupation an end to apartheid and I cannot believe that I'm having to stand here in 2024 still demanding an end to apartheid in this world when we say all these things and when we make these demands we must do so in the memory of the tens of thousands who have been slaughtered in cold blood in Gaza using our weapons made by companies who are subsidised with our tax pounds we must do so as part of our struggle to help those in Gaza trying every single day just to stay alive we must join them in their struggle on the campaign trail and we must join them in their struggle for liberation and freedom and finally let us also do so to honour the memory of my former boss perhaps the greatest anti-racist the world has known for when Nelson Mandela emerged from 27 years in an apartheid prison his first words on his release weren't I'm free let's have a party instead he said our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinian people thank you just wow thank you very much Mr Vanstein for your lovely inspirational and amazing words ok ladies and gents so we are going to open up a Q&A session with Mr Galloway straight question for Georgian in the discussion you said you couldn't guarantee not standing in the same constituency or ward if people weren't in the workers party now we share an awful lot with you and there's some disagreements where people are locally based they're anti-imperialist anti-racist anti-austerity pro-Palestine and they've got that record would you really stand in the same constituency because I think that would be wrong well you missed something out can they win you missed that out now I chose my words very carefully we cannot guarantee that we will not end up on the same ballot paper against each other by definition that means that there will be occasions when I was on the stage here Andrew if Andrew is standing in St Pancras of course we'll support him and we'll not stand against him because I can guarantee you that he stands a real chance of beating Kirsten so it's I've got your question I knew you were going to ask it because I saw what you said on the WhatsApp before you asked it now if we meet someone who's anti-imperialist who's a locally based and all the other epithets that you recounted and we judge that our candidate has got a better chance of succeeding than that candidate then of course we'll end up against each other but what do we lose from that our purpose is to see the defeat of Labour any votes that person got and any votes our candidate got would almost certainly both be coming from Labour and therefore making it more likely that Labour would lose so it's not the end of the world that we end up in the same contest but I'll give you another one he's not here but Jeremy Corbyn of course we will not stand against Jeremy Corbyn because he also stands a great chance of defeating Labour in his constituency so if you're concerned about the Liverpool situation let's talk I think the best thing and here I raised something I didn't mention earlier you can stand with two identities you could be Labour and co-operative party you could be Liverpool independence group and workers party you can have two on the candidates description and that's something we're ready to talk about we have spoken to some people already about that so there are different ways of achieving it it's not bluster going back to the whatsapp it's not bluster it's not bluster at all it's a recognition of a practical reality that we are a national party with a member of parliament after May the 2nd with quite a considerable number of councillors I believe who are going to be standing for hundreds of constituencies and thus be a feature in the national election now that means by definition we have to find constituencies for these hundreds of candidates to run in but if there are exceptional circumstances as there are in Liverpool we are more than happy to reach an accommodation all I said was we couldn't guarantee we couldn't guarantee that's an obvious point to make if we judge the art chances are better than the other person's chances then obviously we reserve the right to stand there but still you're beating heart I'm Gors biggest fan I'm his biggest fan I'll do the question to you now Thank you, thank you very much I'd like to start with something Andrew said about 49 day p.m that sounds like the rough length of a by-election and that sounds about right perhaps I agree with George that you can very likely beat Keir Starmer and I wouldn't like to be the most loyal Labour MP with the biggest majority waiting for that tap on the shoulder for the p.m to stand in my seat and live out of a suitcase for 7 weeks in order to become a multimillionaire later down the line I mean I think that it's a mile wide but an inch deep the support for Starmer to get trust little Rishi Sunak he's had it very very lucky from the Tories but we get 500 a non-envoter possibly rigged going through the courts now nodding dog rather than Churchill MPs it could be the worst parliament ever so my question to George is very specific were there any more than usual and I should check this myself and if you don't know it maybe we can ask James later on were there any more than usual spoiled votes in your election in Rocksdale because remember that's what West Streeting said the Labour line should be so if they said stay away you could say anyone who didn't turn up was sort of following their line but now they've made it easy for us and I don't think there'd have been a single ballot paper with Keir Starmer or West Streeting scrawled over it but if you could confirm or deny that for us that would be great and I think we need to get things out but not Starmer in and in Andrew we've got a great we're in a great position to do that at the risk of one jarring with you George it might even help Labour in the rest of the country if the word gets out that Keir Starmer might not be the Prime Minister if Labour wins well that's our goal West Streeting's advice was taken by precisely 31 people thank you thank you for the question and thank you for the answer George all yours my question may be more to the organisers of this conference than to George it's what what next for the independent candidates after today and I'm not just talking about the general election because as a number of speakers have said this is about creating a movement that can carry us forward and thinking about the need for that movement and what that movement will look like so is there a whatsapp that I can join will there be networks that can be created will there be future conferences like this are there any plans in place because I certainly don't want today to be an end I want it to be more like a beginning if I could just answer that one I think the third of me will pave the way second of me will give us some results and the third of me I think we will see that the alliances will work will move forward and become united in a better way I for one believe they will join the workers party can I just quickly add to that one of my main reasons and my goals for standing as an independent is to create a template for future generations to come my parents couldn't speak English I grew up in this country in what would be considered possibly poverty today and I want to create something that the future generations will know that we do not need to be subservient to other people that looks slightly different to us and may appear to be more educated to us but that they can do it so you're quite right this is not just the one off this is a template to create something magical for the future and the change but we have to create that template for them today at this point in time there are a number of initiatives it's not news that the left is generally quite fractured but historically the left has eaten itself and people are really determined that this time given the live genocide that's happening that people take a pause and as puritanical as it's easy to become when you hold strong positions to say guys let's keep our eye on the prize and so yes we have the workers party we have Jeremy Corbyn's peace and justice project which may at some point not in the near near future but at some point may well develop into a political party we've got initiatives like the collective which is not a party but is supporting independent standing in lots places we have anti austerity movement I think at this time it's about people standing up the election is an important catalyst but it's about those various movements joining and supporting each other where the commonality organically arises so for me it's about being realistic building step by step and reinforcing not pulling apart also just to add to that very quickly amongst those groupings that Selma has mentioned I would also add the for the many network which is an initiative of Ken Loach and a group of people trade unionists and various others which is really intended as a network to ensure that there is communication and I think this is our biggest challenge you know if we look and George was talking earlier about the experience that he has had personally and obviously I cut my political teeth in the liberation struggle in South Africa and what was crucial to the success of that struggle was the fact that the ANC and the liberation movement was such a broad movement you know there were people in the ANC I mean they chopped me on occasions because of our right wing some of their economics were and then there were people who were on what some would in normal times describe as the far left we're all now described as the far left if we're sort of not actually of the far right which is what the majority of our politicians seem to be so I think the lesson of the successful South African liberation struggle for us who would describe ourselves as progressives in the UK at the moment is that we have to be unified and I think what people have said here and certainly since I've been here this afternoon everybody is talking the message of unity and there must come a time when we all come together and we create one united grassroots mass movement in this country and the imperative for that is going to be profound very soon after this next election because let's remind ourselves that this is the British ruling class playing that's how they see the election and we have an opportunity to upset their little play session and you know whether the person at the dispatch box is wearing the blue tie or the red tie is going to make no difference to the lives of the vast majority of people in this country and that's the point we need to be unified to build that movement that we've all voiced both amongst yourselves and from the platform that we all want I'd just like to add to that that this feels like a transformational moment this feels like we are at the start of something new and big in this country and it feels like there's a new hope it feels like there's a real fundamental change happened and it's the catalyst for that has been what's happened in Gaza and what's happened is many people particularly the entire younger generation that many many people have come to realise the vast gulf that exists between the truth of what's actually happening in the world of what they see in their mobile telephones and what the media is telling them and that once you have that realisation you realise it's not only true about Gaza it's true about so many things that we live in a world where news and information was dominated so long by corporations acting on behalf of billionaires or the state pumping out propaganda but people have now seen through it and they've also seen this fantastic disconnect where the large majority of the population want the genocide to stop but the political parties the established political parties all want the genocide to continue and that has led the scales to fall from people's eyes about the lack of democracy in this country and the desire for a new people's movement to bring back real democracy and give back power to the people in building a new and broad movement of course we have to get it together this is the start of something it's the start of something big it has different components but we're all here together today all sharing solidarity all sharing a demand for justice all sharing together in our desire for social change and I've no doubt whatsoever the institutional arrangements will take a little time to develop but they're just institutional arrangements what matters is the movement and the people and those we have thank you I think my question has slightly been addressed but I'd like to sort of give it another go if you like and obviously we are in a very important moment here in history Gaza is the number one issue and we can see how it affects us all and everybody has answered that much better than I can today but I just want to bring attention to Andrew's point where he says that brilliant line I want to use that if you don't mind again and again we have the best democracy in the world that money can buy and yet here we all are getting very excited about council elections and a general election that happens every five years and everyone's been saying that but I'd like to speak more about how it will never happen unless we have the organized movement that's happening in South Africa and how we can do that and just to keep that that that is the prize really and you know fair place everyone I don't have the authority or the expertise I may humble it so many experts so many people do so many brave things how we emphasize not to get drunk on electioneering keep the eye on the prize that you are leading from the front but no matter what your expertise skills bravery we are leading from the back and that happens with the marches and a few who would have predicted during that Ukraine war as evil as that was NATO NATO the Green Party still backing NATO whilst pretending to support a ceasefire who would have thought in those dark days only before that we would have had 800,000 people on the streets and stop the war Friends of Al-Aqsa, Muslim Association in Britain, past I saw it as a campaign 12th national demo we have to keep that up and also support you all as well thank you thank you very much no we of course know that elections are not the only thing in politics but we are in I said last year that 1848 was the year of revolutions but 2024 is the year of elections the American presidential election the British general election these local elections that are upon us and elections are an important battleground we have to be in a position to contest them they are for a start the one time in many people's busy lives that they are open to political argument in fact they are looking for political argument and solutions so to abrogate our responsibilities of fighting those elections is to empower our enemies to give them a free ride now I am one of those I may look foolish in a few weeks but I am one of those who believes the general election is going to be in June which means that no sooner will the local elections have happened but we will all be in the field fighting a general election the most important general election that any of us have ever fought because of this moment that Hon Craig Murray just mentioned this is a turning point historically and we have a chance to bust the uniparty game and so by the end of the summer we will know if that happened, if it worked or if it didn't work we are not going to give up politics thereafter whatever the outcome but we can't avoid being focused on not fixated about but focused on the elections in 2024 Thank you Mr Culliver Thank you just on that just a round of applause for Richard from Stop the Walk sorry from the Stop the Walk coalition he's the gentleman who gave hell to Angela Ray now one of a fundraising it was same sign solidarity campaign Palestine Action Manchester Blackburn for passing the direct action people and Jamila as well who's an individual comes out of our coaches very brave people Thank you very much Just a quick question to the panel you know where our youth demand the actions they've recently taken by painting the Labour Party office red Ministry of Defence building laying siege to KS Thomas Hall your constituency Andrew that type of action is what I would promote as part of all this other political activism what's your thoughts on that type of action the serious civil disobedience which is required which I'm sure Andrew and many of you are aware during your party years that's what we used to do you know lay siege outside Barclays et cetera et cetera what that type of action what's your thoughts on youth demand Thank you Sorry just very quickly I do a huge amount of work with Palestine Action I spent months travelling the country with the two founders Huda Moray, Richard and Loki who I'm sure many people here know of when we were basically just getting people to support the siege of the Leicester factory as I mentioned earlier I've been investigating the global arms trade and its horrific impact on our politics and our daily lives for 23 years I have never seen as effective a way of campaigning against the arms trade which is completely out of control as we're seeing in Gaza as direct action and of course it was an absolutely central part of the struggle against apartheid in South Africa it's been a central part of the Palestinian struggle against occupation and apartheid and I think that we have a responsibility to support groups like Palestine Action and you know not all of us can engage in direct action not all of us can climb up buildings not all of us are in a position to go to jail for a certain amount of time but we can all contribute by helping behind the scenes organisation by providing food by providing soccer and by providing support to those incredibly brave people who are on the front line and I do think that as the establishment in this country becomes more and more distanced from the people of the country which is obviously witnessed by the reality that over 70% of people in this country wanted an immediate ceasefire in Gaza six months ago and none of our mainstream politicians are prepared to endorse that sort of position I think that divide is going to grow wider and wider and I think that's the point at which we are going to see far more direct action against the British state and against the ruling elite in this country and I absolutely support that Thank you My question just two questions short ones for Sir George that's an honorary title from our independence of Lopon we're going to class you as Sir George from our end not being an MP there one of the questions George will you push for people who have gone abroad to fight this illegal war atrocities, genocide, whatever you want to call it will you speak in parliament that these people should be charged upon their return or some of them who have returned that's one of the questions the other one is the human rights one in Pakistan as you know the army is behind all this it's a fact and UK is helping them with aid and stuff will you call for them not to sport and release of Imran Khan that's the only two questions Thank you George Thank you I have many times called for the release of Imran Khan and I entirely agree with you that the principal problem in Pakistan is army rule an army like the Egyptian army that is actually working for somebody else rather than for their own people, for their own country but I try not to get involved in inner Pakistani party politics for obvious reasons because I'm the leader of a British political party and I'm trying to unite the maximum number of people behind the demands that we have here in Britain but I will never turn my back on Imran Khan first time I spoke with him was in Hyde Park 20 years ago or more in the great anti-Iraq war demonstration and I fully agree with you that he has been entirely dishonorably and entirely trecherously dealt with by the army rule I got the my first of two Pakistani awards the Halale Cardiasum for my work for the restoration of democracy in Pakistan and I'm never going to turn my back on democracy as I have the mic if you'll permit me just a nuance on the a point that has just been made by Andrew about direct action I support direct action where it takes us forward I oppose it if it takes us back I give you an example of two examples the spray painting in red of the labour headquarters entirely support it's entirely act super gluing yourself to the roof of an underground train station in the east end of London stopping thousands, tens of thousands of workers in the east end of London getting to their work because that kind of direct action turns people against us we had this debate I'll never forget at the time I was one of the leaders of the stop the war coalition at the time of the Iraq war somebody suggested that we block all the bridges over the Thames in the run up to Christmas and I remember very well John Rhys made the point making hundreds of thousands of Londoners hate us because they can't get into London to do their Christmas shopping is a very foolish thing to do so there are some forms of direct action that are negative and some that are positive Andrew mentioned the most spectacularly positive the siege of the arms Israeli arms companies working with Israeli arms companies here in England and the heroes that did that will be forever remembered so from our point of view it's not a blanket support for all direct action and we appeal to people who are taking direct action not to take action that is going to harm the lives of working class people and their families thank you very much I've got a question to the panel today first of all solidarity and greetings from Manchester People's Assembly to this meeting today and I think we give our particular support to all those independent candidates who have declared themselves today fighting for a better world but my question is just looking forward a bit at this coming election the hatred of the Tories is so great around this country that millions of people will be doing anything to vote for any candidates that will bring them down because they've had enough of their corruption and their lies and their greed and that is likely to lead in this general election with hopefully some honourable exceptions in this room a very large Labour majority which I think will disappear in months if not weeks after that election because they will let down and disappoint millions of people in this country by doing nothing whatsoever to improve anyone's lives do nothing to make a difference in Gaza or anywhere else in the world and the danger of that and this is my question to the panel is that many people will look for an alternative and that alternative will come out of the remnants of the Tory party led by people like Suella Braverman, Brittany Patel, Liz Truss supported undoubtedly by people like Farage who will be spouting racist and neo-fascist propaganda in simplistic ways to try and win over particularly the most deprived and poorest people in the white working class communities of Britain and the danger there is that we are going to need unity on the left more than ever we've needed it before so my question to the panel is do you really all totally agree that in that situation we have all got to come together and we've got to find a way to build a mass party of ordinary people supported by trade unions supported by all races and all classes to make sure that we can keep the neo-fascist out of power in this country Thank you Shalymau, thank you The short answer is absolutely yes When I spoke and I spoke cautiously and I said that this is a long-term battle we have this year George alluded to this is the election year and absolutely agree and that's why we have to have everybody out this year around the elections there's an opportunity and we have to take it up we cannot make life easier for people like Keir Starmer on the other hand this is a longer term battle and we've already seen the beginning of that we saw how they turned not just call their marches in London hate marches the MPs with the speaker's help Keir Starmer's help have now tried to say that MPs are so scared of Muslims in this country that they don't dare to show solidarity with Israel You cannot make that up but that's the rubbish that we've heard and we saw it in Samaphobia rise so exponentially and that's what the last refuge of these scoundrels is racism and particular form of racism they're taking in this country is Islamaphobia so it's totally predictable that reform and the far right left that's left of the Tory party that's what they're going to promote and I also fear actually that under the current Labour leadership the authoritarianism of Keir Starmer will not challenge that narrative because it will also suit him the current party the form that he's now got it to justify the stasis and the lack of change that they're going to bring so absolutely the responsibility of having a genuine progressive united movement is on us and the beginnings of that are right here I believe Just to add to that very quickly for those of us who've actually had Keir Starmer as a member of parliament since 2015 to see how he's behaved since he's come into the constituency how he behaved when he was the director of the Crown Prosecution Service what his instincts are and how he has behaved as leader of the Labour Party you know and what Summer said is absolutely crucially important because by instinct he's inherently undemocratic and authoritarian and that's incredibly important and I would add to that that the Labour Party under Keir Starmer has a very significant race problem and that race problem is not only manifest through the fact that Keir Starmer's leadership has seen more Jews expelled from the Labour Party more Jews than in the entire history of the party before he turned up supposedly to combat anti-Semitism now you know with the greatest of respect that's a little like expelling Nelson Mandela from the ANC in order to combat racism it does not make a lot of sense the far deeper racism problem in the party is the treatment of particularly women of colour and of Muslims across the board and I think it is absolutely incumbent upon us because of course there are many people in this country who want to see the Tories out there is no point replacing little Rishi Sunach with little Keir Starmer those names that you mentioned genuinely send a shudder down everybody's spine in the Tory party are vile and nobody wants to see them but the Labour Party at this moment in time are no different I think somebody once said that basically they're two cheeks or the same backside I know who said that but that is why we have to make sure by being independent and returning large majorities we drag them back to where we want them to be so then they start listening to us rather than us going to them with our begging votes after what we saw in Germany yesterday I'm sorry I had to go out the room so I don't know if anyone mentioned it but after what we saw in Berlin and after what we are seeing already in Britain I think we can say that the neo-fascists are already amongst us are already in the name of the Democrats clamping down on liberty and freedom in the United States in Germany they're doing it in the name of social democracy and greenery the German government is the Labour Party plus the Green Party and what they did yesterday crossed a very important Rubicon Germans in uniform dragging off Jews out of a public building for seeking to express themselves freely I made the point this morning earlier this morning because I felt it in my bones that many of the liberties we think we have first of all didn't come out of thin air had to be won by our forefathers and foremothers and equally they are not permanent it is not guaranteed that they are permanent it is not impossible that measures actions will be taken to clamp down on us and what we are doing and saying it's already happening in social media social media companies in Europe and in Britain are already being ordered by the state to clamp down and suppress and algorithmically distort the utterances of people like Andrew people like me and you can feel it I know from my numbers that it's happening so it's a short step from that saying you can't book this hall for a Palestine rally and if you do we'll send the police in to drag you out nobody should imagine that Britain is immune from that if it happened in Germany it can happen here it's not even impossible that the pretensions of liberalism and the pretensions of liberal democracy are set aside they find a reason by the time we leave this room there might be a war going on certainly by Sunday night there might be a war going on I mean a really big war involving big powers and all out fighting and in those circumstances they may very well say well we're at war so you can't do the things that you were previously able to do you can't say the things you were previously saying so we have to be on our guard I say this in relation to the gentlemen at the back in the green shirt it's not that fascism might come after Keir Starmer is elected fascism is present already and it's actually dressed in the garb of pink and green not necessarily in the garb of you know, British Patel and the right wing Tories that he mentioned so my point is I suppose that they are all the same that there's no difference between them if Keir Starmer is elected as the prime minister I look forward to being his opposition and he will daily give us lots of things to oppose him about for as long as we're able George I'd like you to say that phrase that you used for Starmer and Rishi Sunak again if you don't mind the very famous one Rishi Sunak and Sir Kid Starver are two cheeks of the same arse