 103.9 FM W.O.Z.O Radio, Knoxville I think comedians today are probably the people we can most rely on as far as explaining something that's true with as little fear of being biased or repercussions or being in the pocket of like some bigger agenda. Like, I feel like the best truth comes from comedians. What do you think? Well, welcome to Digital Freethought Radio Hour on W.O.Z.O Radio 103.9 L.P. FM live right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today's September 15th, and if it's not, you're listening to a rebroadcast of the show or a podcast and should not be trying to call in. I'm Dr. Five, and as usual, we have Wombat on the phone with us today. Hello, Wombat. I'm the Wombat! Let's go! You are. And we have Carl Maraton, atheist comedian with us today. Hello, Carl. All right, all right, all right. Let's get this thing going. Works for me. Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a call-in-talk radio show about atheism, free-thought, rational thought, humanism, and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faiths, God's holy books, and superstition. And if you get the feeling you're the only non-believer in Knoxville, well, you're just not. There are several atheist, free-thinking and rationalist groups that exist right here in Knoxville, we'll be telling you how you can connect with them right after the mid-show break. Also, did you know that there's an atheist called in television show broadcasting here in Knoxville and has been for over nine years? Did you know that, Wombat? Of course, I knew about it. The only thing is, I didn't want to tell you, because you're kind of out of the loop on certain things. I didn't want to make you feel bad by surprising you with all this information all at once. Couldn't happen. Anyway, we'll tell you how you can watch that after the mid-show break. We'll give you all the details on that call-in show. And in spite of what Steve Martin would have you think, there are an awful lot of atheist songs out there. And you'll be hearing some of them right here on this program and generally on this station as they are in rotation. Today's topic is comedy. And Carl, I believe you'd like to tell us a little bit about your acting and what you're all about. Would you mind taking it away? Absolutely. I have been a comic for a while and something kind of strange happened that put me on this path. I was in a show. There were two shows. It was in a theater. And after the first show, I got fired. I did a bit about God and guns. Oh, I can imagine. And there were... This is in Texas, right? This is in Dallas, Texas. So, they fired me. And the very next day, I got contacted because of a video that I've got on YouTube from someone with an atheist podcast here in Texas. Cool. And so I did an interview over there and it took off. Thousands of people started watching the video. And throughout my life, I've always been a liberal and I've always been an atheist. So, I saw this and I thought, okay, even though I don't really introduce myself that way, it's like, hi, I'm Carl, I'm right handed. It's just, it is. I decided I'm just going to go all in on this. So, let me put it this way. If you want to reach me, it's on liberalatheistcomic.com. That's how far we're in on this one. That's the way that people know me at this stage. Is that all one word? I mean, liberalatheistcomic.com on the website? Yes, it's just liberalatheistcomic.com. Okay, cool. And you can hit me on Twitter from the website. Twitter handle is libatheistcomic. Okay, cool. I keep wanting to spell comic with two C, two M's. I mean, not cool. But anyway, tell us what got you into that in the first place. I mean, why comedy? You didn't start off in college or anything like that, did you? Oh, hell no. I'm 64 years old. Cool. Okay. Can you start beginning too? It seemed like you had done a lot of like live shows and play acting before, like classically trained. Like how did, like, what's the whole process to get into the point where you're like now comfortable in front of an audience and you can actually start making jabs about like, you know, like things that people kind of hold really closely. Like what's the difference between like acting in front of a stage versus being on the end of a mic in front of an audience? Well, you know, it's interesting to me. I do have an acting background. Okay. Cool. I've done a fair amount of theater. And again, things just happen in life. I found myself, a friend of mine was taking a comedy class, a stand-up comedy class, and had dropped out of it and said, you know, they're not going to give me a refund. Would you like to sit in on the class? Really? What a golden opportunity. It's something that everyone that is told, oh, you ought to do stand-up. Well, that's a mistake. Stand-up comedy is really acting. If I do my job properly, people think it's just coming off the top of my head, but everything is scripted. I write this material and from show to show, if I'm doing the same bit, it is the same bit. If I'm doing a bit, it's going to be the same bit every time I do it in the show. The thing about comedy is that it's a very difficult, I think the most difficult art form. You're writing and you're acting. The acting is a character that is an exaggerated version of yourself. You take a writer, Stephen King. He's a great writer, but he can't act. You take an actor like Brad Pitt, great actor. He can't write. For the stand-up comic, you are writing your own material and you're performing it. It is the most difficult of all the art forms, I think. As I said, I've done a fair amount of theater. You've got a script. You've got someone else's words and you're trying to interpret those words. In this, you're interpreting your own words. Do you ever find that you can do this honestly? Is there a way that you can cheat to get through one night of telling jokes? I'm not feeling it today or something really bad happened to me today, but I have to pretend to be in this character and just get my way through it. Is that easy or has that ever happened? Well, of course, everybody has good days and bad days. But my bad day isn't because of people that show up in a club or in a theater to laugh for anything. This is a suck it up buttercup. You're here for a job and let's get this going. I would think that that would be really hard, especially if you're an atheist having to deal with the hecklers and all that. Have you run into that? It's a really bad idea, generally, to heckle a stand-up comedian. Yeah, I know. I've seen some of them handle hecklers. It never comes out well for them. I really have not had very many problems with that. When I start my act, my first line is I'm a 64-year-old liberal atheist born and raised in Texas. Let's have some fun. You know what you're in for. Most of the people that will come to see me know beforehand what the subject matter is that I'm going after. Have you ever had people just get up and walk out when you say that? Let them. I've never had anyone get up at the very beginning of the act when I say that and leave. But some of my material is a little on the edgier side. And I have had people get up and walk out. You know what? I'm not everybody's cup of tea. So if this is not for you, then ease on down the road. There are plenty of liberals and plenty of atheists in this world that will embrace what I'm doing. In fact, I'm really unlikely to get booked at a church. Speaking of churches, this is an interesting point. Has your experience in stand-up increased your appreciation for the weekly sermon at all? When you see a pastor come up and be like, oh, and he's a member of a megachurch or something like that. And he's just like, oh, we need your money. We really, really need your money. This church vote is going to really help us out. And we just need everyone's $5 donations, 10% of their paychecks, free volunteer time. Anything that you can offer, please, please, please. Does that get you a little bit more appreciative? Like, hey, his candor is good. His temper is fine. He's speaking well into the mic. I'm really impressed with this guy. For his presentation. That is an excellent, excellent question because I have always thought that these megachurch pastors are actors. And so, yes, if you have a well-structured pitch, I appreciate that. I don't know that a person can do it, but wait. Let me take you from grit to grace, from loneliness to holiness. I'll see what he went coming on today. There you go. I know. And that brings up the clergy project. Have you ever heard of that? Oh, yeah. Carl? No, I have not. Because the clergy project is a project started by a couple of atheists. One of them was Dan O'Denet and Dan Barker. This is a group of clergy who no longer believe. They actually take clergy who are stuck in their jobs because they're afraid to quit because it costs them their family, the friends, and their job. And they work with them all the way through this project to give them the skills that they need to leave the clergy and go out into the world and work secular jobs. And they can handle up to 400 clergy at a time, and they stay full. And so, you know that those clergy are acting from the pulpit, which was the point you were making, that they are acting, or a lot of them are. Yeah, absolutely. They're playing a part. Yeah. You know, in my estimation, these are all actors. Now, the fact that you believe in your character doesn't change my general view of this. So would you recommend people get into comedy, particularly atheist comedy at this time, or is it a rough road to hoe? Well, first off, I think everybody that is listening today knows that being an atheist is not the most popular thing to do. Right. And you don't do it for popularity. No. You don't choose to do it in the first place. I have not in my... That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. You don't choose it. I've not had a big personal problem in my life being an atheist. You know, again, if you don't care for me, then there are seven and a half billion people in the world. Find someone else. I would suggest everybody, if you feel like you'd like to try stand-up comedy, I don't know about Knoxville, but in Dallas, there are open mics almost every night. All the time. And try it. The problem is, it's not what you think it is. It's not just getting up and telling a couple of jokes. It is a highly structured writing exercise to go from an opening to a middle to a close over the course of the show. Right. Yeah. So spend your time writing before you ever pick up the mic. Oh, yes, yes. What people don't understand, I think, generally is when you see a comedy special on HBO or Netflix, that material has been worked in clubs, in theaters, in different venues for months, if not years before it goes out and is recorded for the show. And I'd like to take just a second to welcome Fanny to the call. Fanny came out a little while ago and let her say a word or two. Maybe ask a good question if she needs to. Thank you for having me again. How good? Yeah, no, I was listening. It's really good. I always write little jokes about, you know, I think this thing, this content of being stand-up comedy, comedy that you make during your day and then sometimes you write, but I'm really afraid of the stage as a comedian. So that is just like a little dream that I have. I'll take calls, advice to try one day a class if I find the opportunity. Me too. I've always thought that I'd like to try it. Fanny, I thought you would appreciate the platform and the event that I think comedians today are probably the people we can most rely on as far as explaining something that's true with as little fear of being biased or repercussions or being in the pocket of like some bigger agenda. Like I feel like the best truth comes from comedians. What do you think? Well, I think we mentioned this through message this week. My questions and all my interests around comedy right now, it has been a lot on the culture war. And I think I mentioned to you that Dave Chappelle, Special Netflix was really funny. And you know how that has been conflictual, the criticism around it. But I do have like I told you, I like Dave Chappelle because it is all about the free speech and real comedy like we always accepted before and now we went through this little censorship online. But I do not like that for some reason and probably most of because of that culture war. He apparently is the only one or one of very few comedians that is allowed to do that. So that is my criticism in general, you know, with comedy. I would like to ask how is the censorship? Does he use social media to make some jokes sometimes throw something online? And how is the feedback or the backlash? Great question. Well, there's no censorship for me. You know, well, I say that. I'm aware of an audience that I'm... If I'm at a corporate event, then I'm going to do material that speaks more to that audience than I would in a club. I will tell you as far as censorship goes, here is the line that got me fired before the liberal atheist comic was born. It starts out that it's weird that the first thing that people do after a church shooting is pray. Praying for the victim of a church massacre is like shooting up for the victim of a heroin overdose. My feeling is, since I'm in Texas and clearly they're not going to do anything about guns, then what we should do is shut down all the churches and turn them into massage parvers. Because there's never been a mass shooting at a massage parver. Yes. Sorry to be so dark. And the lights go down. After the show, the place from the audience. That was the line that did it? You know, I have several things that I talk about. I talk about it in that bid. But that, I think, was the most controversial. Most of it was, you know, it was comedy, but it was not gods and guns in Texas. And so my supposition is, although no one ever came up and said I was the one that complained, that's what my guess is. Waiting for you in the parking lot. You know, I have been surprised at times that after I would do a bit, there isn't someone out in the parking lot wanting to bust a cap on me. But again, this is what I have chosen to do. I'm not going to back off of material that I write for the sensibilities of a particular group. Again, I'm not going to get booked in a church. It is really unlikely I'm going to get called to do a Trump rally. Have you ever gone backlash from other atheists? You know, I guess there are some, atheists are not a monolithic group. Some people find certain topics funnier than other topics. But I haven't had a lot of backlash really from any group I can identify. I've been fired, but I can't really tell you the demographics of the person that complained that caused me to get bumped. Your story about how you got... You think I managed to make an enemy group. No, your story about how you got fired from one group and then an atheist group found you and then hired you again goes along with a lot of the people that I talked to saying that, oh, I don't want to come out of the atheist closet. My Christian friends were no longer like me. I said, well, yeah, but you're living a lie for them. Aren't you? You're saying that you're a Christian when you're not or you're saying you're religious when you're not. And you're ignoring all the other atheists that would also come out or might tell you that they're atheists if you did come out. So I think it teaches us a lesson that there's a niche for us out there. At least a niche, maybe more. Not only that, but there are a lot of Christian people that wouldn't care if you went one way or the other. So you're kind of lying to yourself if you're saying I'm staying in the atheist closet because I want to keep my friends. Get some better friends. There you go. That is a gene that I am missing. I have never, for anything that I've done in my life, have I ever felt that I needed to be in the closet? Again, I'm an atheist in the Bible belt. But I never felt that I had to deny who I am. I am a liberal in Texas. Yeah. But you're in Dallas, which is a pretty big city. You're not living in Lubbock or something like that. Right. I can tell you though, if I were in Lubbock, this wouldn't change. If I were gay, I would not have a problem in the world saying that I'm gay. If people wanted to shun me because of that, you know, I don't want to hang with them anyway. Right. Well, we're lucky that we live in a later time. I mean, if this was 1950 and you came out as gay, you could be arrested and persecuted, put in jail, fined, you know, prison. So we were fortunate to live in the time that we are. Yeah, what I'm hearing is like things used to suck if you weren't a particular person, but now things are getting slowly better. But things could, I mean, it doesn't mean it's equally better for everyone, but it does mean that things are getting better and we're on the right trajectory. The thing that we need is more people outspoken like you so that we can normalize atheism away from a caricature that theists have and more of like, hey, theists disagree with each other. Theists can tell jokes. Theists can be really loving people and family members that you might know very well already. And now that changes the paradigm that people try to offer of what atheism is because now they have real concrete examples, real faces, real people that they can point to and say, no, this is my neighbor's an atheist and I like him or my kid's an atheist and I like him as a kid. Get to know some. Exactly. Before you condemn them. It shows the monster for what it is and not a monster at all. It's really great. I think, you know, you're doing this stuff, you doing the stand-up really helps push that effort forward. So yeah, yeah. Normalize the atheism. Well, you know, I've always thought my current view is that people are hardwired to view the locus of control in life as either internal or external. I've always been an internal locus of control kind of guy. I am told, I mean, I don't really remember this because I was five years old, but I've been told that my first atheist comment was made at five. Oh, really? What was that? You remember? There were a group. Did they tell you what they said? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were a group of older kids that came over and they were talking to some of the younger kids and said, we know something that you believe in that's not real. And I said, you mean God. And they went crazy and sane. I am told to say, oh, no, no, no, no. Santa Claus. Oh, I really like Santa Claus. This is a loss. This is going to leave a mark. That's funny. Yeah. And you know, the other thing... I think I believe for some time that they were the same person. Hmm. Yes. For a long time, I think I believe they were the same person. They were like old, old-fashioned guys that give you good things when you're good. Yeah, and you ask them for things. And we give you bad things if you're bad. Yeah. It's the same exact story. I'm really worried about it. And then later, I just wanted gods to be like Santa Claus, to like not be bad at all. Right. It would only be good, you know, or could only be do good to you. Cool. So we're at the bottom of the hour. How about we pick up after a quick break when we do a caller station ID? You guys have been listening to 103.9 FM. Low power. Wozo Radio, straight from Knoxville, Tennessee. Knox Patch. We'll come back and talk to you guys later. See you after the break. Okay. Okay. See you in a minute. Yeah. You're listening to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on Wozo 103.9 LP FM in Knoxville, Tennessee. Feel free to join in on the conversation at 865-333-5937. That's 865-333-5937. And now back to the show. Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Simply the best. Welcome back. I'm Dr. Five, and this is the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on Wozo Radio 103.9 LP FM right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today, September 15th. And if it's not, you're listening to a rebroadcast of the show or a podcast and should not be trying to call in. Okay. Let's talk about the Freethought groups that you can join here in Knoxville. First, there's the Atheist Society of Knoxville, founded in 2002. We're in our 17th year. ASK now has over 975 members, pushing on a thousand. And you can find us online at KnoxvilleAtheist.org. Or you can go directly to Meetup and search for Atheists in Knoxville. It's just that simple. Also, you can join ASK in person at our weekly Meetup, which happens every Tuesday at Barley's Tap Room in Pizzeria in the Old City, where we get together for food, drink, and conversation. Everyone is welcome. That is as long as you don't come to preach, proselytize, provoke, or punch. Thank you Atheist experience. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville, you should still go to Meetup and search for an Atheist group in your town. If you don't find one, start one. Another large Freethinking group here in Knoxville is a rationalist of East Tennessee. They've been around for more than 20 years. Our E.T. has bi-weekly presentations and discussions at the Pellissippi State Campus near Hardin Valley Road. They meet the first and third Sundays at the Goyens Administration Building, cafeteria annex. And if that's too much to remember, just go to rationalist.org and click on Upcoming Advents. Then there's also the Sunday Assembly, which started in England a few years ago and now has spread around the world. It's a no-god church setting for those who no longer believe in gods, but still like the fellowship of a church-type gathering. They only meet once a month in Knoxville, though, on the fourth Sunday, and you'll find them in the World's Fair site in the international building area. Then there's the Secular Student Alliance. Now the college has started back. They have programs that give camaraderie and community to any Freethinking high school or college student who would like to be involved in the Freethought Movement or would just like to find other Freethinkers to hang with. Everybody needs like-minded friends and atheists are no different. Earlier in the show we said we talked about the Atheist Call-In TV show. Well, it's called Freethought Forum and you can find it most every Wednesday between 6.30 and 7.30 on Comcast, Channel 12, or Charter Channel 192. And you can watch it streaming online at ctvnox.org. You can also find archive of some of their shows on YouTube where a fan has been recording and posting them. Just go to YouTube and search for three words. Freethought Forum Noffful. And if you're interested in getting involved in the TV show or this radio show, just come to and ask or RET meet up and talk to us about it. You can be our next co-host or guest. Back to our guest, matter of fact, first of all we have our co-host online, which is Ty Wombat, say hi. Yo, yo, yo! Dr. Wells in the house, let's go. Really? And Carl Merritt on Atheist Comic. Now welcome Carl and Fanny on the call. So let's get back to it. Anything you'd like to put out your links and or advertise what you're doing there, Carl? What we're doing, any part of it? Yes, you can find me on my website, liberalatheistcomic.com and my is with L-I-B Atheist Comic. Yeah, we were all talking about how we'd all like to be comics, but lack of the either writing skills or just the gumption to do it. I'd love to try it myself, but I'd have to spend some time writing first. So I've actually done it. I'm sorry, I did some stand up. Yeah, I've done a seven minute set a couple of times while I was in Atlanta and then I used parts of it for my work when I was doing like monthly safety meetings when I was in Knoxville. It wasn't about religion, but it's very much exactly what Carl had been alluding to. It's more of like you're making a caricature of yourself and those are the ones, those are the jokes that hit the best when people can believe that these are stories or opinions that you actually have or observations that you've made even as a character, but like when you offer a little bit of yourself in the joke and use that to connect with people, it really does change things. So now that like I am like an atheist, it seems like that would be a really cool way to bring up jokes even not on a stage, but like as a way to break the ice of letting people know that I'm not necessarily religious. I think I was, so I was at a dinner party last night and we were just having some, we were making Chinese dumplings and I remember I was with a group of people who were, some of them were my coworkers and I I don't think I dropped the A-bomb around those people so what I've done, what I did was instead say hey guys remember when we were at that last you know potluck together and it was that preacher who was like praying when we were just about to eat and everyone was like yeah that's funny and I was just like come on dude just hurry up and so they're like yeah just bow our heads and wait for it because you know the preacher just got to do his thing stuff like that, I'm like no I keep my eyes open and I look for everybody else to see if they're on the same level with me and I'm like okay these are the fun people to talk to and everyone was laughing for there, but I think that's like a good way to just like begin to like edge into the idea of like hey you know what you know I'm not a religious guy don't characterize me as one but I'm still one of your guys's friends and we can maintain that work relationship that we have of course but you should at least know where I'm coming from unlike a lot of these subjects without having a drop loaded words in front of them yeah well grads I'm coming out that's great oh not holding back yeah but I find humor is a really great way to bridge that gap yeah well I find also this is the person that I am and so I'm not gonna hide from anything I don't really make it the first thing I tell people I mean the old joke is how can you tell if someone's an atheist, a vegan or in the CrossFit wait 30 seconds and they'll tell you well I generally I have a large variety of topics that I can talk about with people and you know sometimes being an atheist will come up it almost certainly will come up if people start telling me about their religion if it's good for you it's gonna be good for me but if you want to talk politics I'm fine with that too yeah if they broach the subject then it's anybody's bailiwick that you can jump in with your own opinions everybody's got one they've opened the door you know we're talking about the reaction that people have a two atheist I have a little bit in my background that tends to freak them out I was married for 28 years and for half of that time my wife was battling leukemia and I was not just a caregiver I was a super caregiver I would the stat that I heard when she was diagnosed is that 90% of people that are in relationships when this diagnosis hits breaks up within a year wow well we were together for 14 years after her diagnosis before she died and the Christians can't figure out how an atheist would stick with somebody that was ill for 14 years right since they don't understand love and companionship and all that they don't have any morals how could it possibly be a good person I look at it completely the opposite way if you don't think that I am a kind and decent person intrinsically you're just being kind and decent so you don't go to hell you know to me it's not really decency if someone's got a gun to your head it's fear it's fear of punishment and it tells a lot when you hear people describing themselves as God fearing I mean it does say a lot who wouldn't be afraid of an invisible sky giant it's booty omniscient judgment or a judge watching your every thought is this not like I always like to do this dichotomy in between people that believe God being good and people that do not believe God being good I think there is a big difference and there is something you know some cuts through man fallacy but saying that there is a real good and there is someone that is not that good because if you being good for fearing hell or wishing hoping to go to heavens I don't think that intention to get this second thing to get this result of being good makes you really good but in the other way the atheism is not being driven by any intention and just be good to other people for no reason that is really being good for real and following rules like the Ten Commandments is not morality it's obedience you are just a trained dog you are claiming morality but you really just follow the rules that are laid down with punishment at the other end if you don't follow those rules well I think it's interesting to me that again I think it's the external locus of control I think people are hardwired to believe this way but they will decide that they've got the way and the truth and the light and they are believing in a fairy tale and what I find hilarious is when people will start on their religion and I'll say I just don't get anything out of religion or spirituality and the line is always you just don't get it really your book starts out with a couple of nudists getting dietary advice from a talking snake and I'm the one that's not getting it alright let's go that direction no it's fantastic it's literally what origin story of our society and every society has an origin story but we don't believe those other origin stories we realize that they're just oral traditions that are handed down for millennia but ours has to be true I actually have a question that I'd like to bring up it's one we bring up for every guest normally we ask like so what does that mean for you specifically how would you define it are you talking to me to me it is this kind of goes beyond religion for the most part I don't believe anything just on the face of it I don't believe anything just on the face of it cool you're skeptic in other words I have absolutely zero reason to believe that there's a god why would I do that in your opinion is someone who doesn't believe in a god right that's where I'm at too and the only thing you would need to believe is good evidence which there hasn't been any presented is that accurate it's completely accurate and of course they're not going to be able to prove there's a god let's get technical it's a tall order what are you talking about when you say god that becomes its own little olympic event define what you mean by this that's an incredible thing I don't think there's enough evidence in existence to support that I'll let you go for it if it is that extraordinary technically speaking with the proper vocabulary since absolutely I cannot prove a negative I can't prove there's not a god technically speaking I would be an agnostic however having said that in the same way I'm an agnostic as to whether leprechauns are racing unicorns around a track now I can't prove that's not the case but I've never gone out and tried to make a bet on the outcome it just doesn't affect my life in any way, shape, or form now I actually don't find agnosticism and atheism to be mutually exclusive I'm an agnostic atheist I don't know if a god exists and I also don't believe in that god because my agnosticism is informed by my belief informed by what I know and not know I can be both it's always interesting to have these short fundamental conversations because there are people who think well I don't like atheists but those agnostic people are nice when technically they're basically the same people and it's just a question of hey, you may not just like the atheist label or people out there who are like I don't believe in a god but I don't want to be an atheist so you can identify with whatever you like because I'm not here to force labels on you but technically we're on the same page and there shouldn't be any shame that's being perpetrated by the theists on what you are and what the right word to identify yourself with right I'd like to go back to what you said about how religious belief isn't affecting your life at all whether you believe or not since you don't believe it I believe that's where you're coming from since I don't believe in these things and they're not affecting my life it's not a problem but of course religious belief of other people are very much affecting your life very true the way that they pass laws and condemn you and try to indoctrinate your children et cetera I don't have any children so I'm lucky on that part of it I've got a 54 year old track record of not having children as far as you know yeah but Fanny doesn't have to worry about people trying to indoctrinate her children I really like the course explanation of talking about atheism and agnosis I totally agree on that but I do agree with Larry that do religious influence a lot of our lives even though we don't believe they are moving politics opinions social judgments little rules not necessary laws but in Brazil in Brazil we still have this fight for secularism because our own president we would do all these testimonials and do all these speeches talking how he will not follow constitution and how he is going to a higher law and moving things on politics for religious people in different sides but anyways just religious of course there is the majority that is Christian they are pushing into putting creationism back into schools and to science classes you know and the president has mentioned he would pick a very evangelical minister to push into more religious family bible laws stuff like that so there are like and one of my questions to call would be I understand that maybe in North America where there is not so much backlash or even like there is not so many religious people like we have in South America so you have less backlash less of this this threat and less of this negative feedback from your audience and from people around you itself don't you think this is one of the points that makes us as people more comfortable to come out of the closet or to be ourselves here in North America then like I had much more pressure when I was living in Brazil then living in Canada I would think so what gets me is when a politician or an office holder says that they answer to a higher law they don't have answer to our laws it just kills me because the law that they are talking about allows for slavery, multiple marriages, no rights for women and it demands the killing of homosexuals, unruly children and non-burge and brides and the penalty for breaking any of those laws is death so I mean how long would they survive if they actually went by those laws well I don't want to mischaracterize my feeling on this I don't really care I'm fortunate that this is the world I live in if I was a female in Saudi Arabia believe me I would probably be wearing the beekeeper outfit you know I'm not I'm not going to risk my life over this I would do my best to get out of that environment being the person that I am well I don't really care at all what people believe where I draw the line is if you want to believe in creationism knock yourself out you cannot be on a school board you cannot be the one picking textbooks and I will fight tooth and nail to stop that from happening I don't care if you believe that abortion is evil don't get an abortion I will fight tooth and nail for the rights of women to control their own bodies exactly so you know again whatever you want to believe believe I'm the kind of guy that looks at the Bible and thinks okay Harry Potter it's a really popular book people like it well it's fiction now how far you want to get into Harry Potter and you know religion that's up to you but I'm not going to be embracing the fact that you think we're in Hogwarts now okay you need to move on it yeah although I do have to tell you I do have to tell you if I had the opportunity I would love to have God's job you know you never get blamed for any of the bad stuff and you always get praised for the good stuff you know if you're playing football and you catch a pass you make a touchdown you drop to one knee bow your head and point that index finger up to the sky but if you drop the pass I've never seen the middle finger go up no he gets credit for all human accomplishments as well let's say that you join AA and you quit alcohol it's not you I have had alcoholics tell me this it wasn't me that quit alcohol it was God that helped me quit I couldn't have done it without God it was literally them who did it but then they turn around and give all the credit to God so he said not only the vocabulary I think the worst thing on the 12 step programs is to give the control of your life over yeah super powerful being that you take the control out of the person's hand and the responsibility of its acts so I think it starts really bad and that's why it doesn't work like that well I have a little bit of street cred on this I signed myself up for rehab three years ago okay and I knew of course that a 12 step program was not going to work for me because I think it's 10 of the 12 steps have something to do with a higher power so I went into a cognitive behavior therapy kind of session that had the same elements to it that seemed to be beneficial for AA but my feeling on AA was always okay if God is my solution for getting out of this wouldn't he kind of part of the reason I got into this mess I was the one that got myself into this but he's the one that's going to get me out of it it just never made any sense right and by the way this would probably be a good time to to put a plug in for secular sobriety organizations there's one called the SOS sobriety SOS SOBRI TWY.org SOS sobriety and it's all about losing your control to alcoholism through secular means so if you're out there and you're struggling look them up and as we wrap up towards the end of the show how about this is a final topic I care what people believe but I can agree that what's probably more important for me is how they come to conclusions rather than what it is that they end up at because it's that methodology that they use that dictates what they ultimately are convinced of or what they do find to be true and if you can improve that then everything else after that gets better like if you're you're doing a reality then the world would absolutely change if we would focus on critical thinking boom I love this guy in schools absolutely Carl's a good guy we need to have you back yeah I absolutely agree man if we could teach critical thinking in school which I like as an actual class it's just like a hey sit down maybe as like an addition to communication or something but let's think about why we think about stuff as early as possible let's have a class like that and it's not a sell for atheism it's not a sell for any religion any or like any kind of creed it's just a chance to have a kid understand that what they might think or believe could improve with nuance could improve with introspection and that they can bounce ideas off of other people and get a improved world view as a result of it and I think stuff like that could just really help people and society as a whole overall immensely just my I think one of the now is that there is so much information that's out there yes that you really have to be able to discern what is factual versus what is just made up if you're able to determine what's factual and you can use a logic train you will come up with the best available solution that just seems so basic to me yep I dig it yep alright final words everybody Carl will save you for last or actually Larry for you to be last Fanny do you have anything that you'd like to say before we close out the show yes I wanted to bring up that we're talking about critical thinking and epistemology and I don't know if you remember Peter Bogosian books coming out how to have impossible conversations ooh I love it yes yes and I'm very excited to tell you that I'm starting with handling a conversation on my channel so hi what's this well we have talked for the last week and now we decided to wait for me to get the book my book my version and then I will read a few a few chapters and then we're gonna talk about the book very cool excellent very nice I'll say hey I'm going to the Kentucky Free Thought convention in Kentucky to speak and do a panel with Tracy Harris from the APS experience I'll be coming up on Saturday 21st and I'll be setting up a table afterwards there I already got some people who have been reaching out who'd like to sit down with me I'm looking forward to the event not the drive I don't want to drive that much but I am looking forward to the event oh okay what you're going to there okay that's wonderful I'm going to drive up that morning I believe there Larry okay look forward to it final words okay let's just go with blatant self-promotion and say you can find me on liberalatheistcomic.com you can also follow the Facebook page on that and Twitter okay sounds real good and for my final word everybody's going to somebody else's health the time to worry about it is when they prove that health and heavens and hell I mean heaven hell yeah our and souls are real until then don't sweat it and we'll see you next week take care bye everybody bye everybody bye bye thank you for having me