 Good evening. I'm Elizabeth Christian, and it's my honor to serve as one of the vice chairs of the Lyndon Baines Johnson Foundation We really want to welcome you tonight on behalf of the whole board of the foundation to what promises to be an amazing evening Our co-sponsor for tonight's program is the Briscoe Center for American History Which has been a frequent partner of the LBJ Foundation for programs publications and exhibitions It's appropriate tonight because the Briscoe Center is has an extensive archive documenting women's history It holds collections ranging from the diaries of women pioneers on the Western frontier to the papers of Miss Ima Hogg and Richards and Molly Ivins In January the Center will open a major exhibit showcasing treasures from its archives that document the role women have played in the making of America As always we wish to thank our generous underwriters without whom we could not present programs of this magnitude Please join me in expressing our sincere gratitude to the Moody Foundation St. David's Health Care Texas Mutual Insurance Company and Frostbank And just a few minutes you're going to be treated to a conversation with Mark Uptegrove leading and Mark as you know as president CEO of the LBJ Foundation and Gloria Steinem One of the pillars of the feminist movement in America and a renowned journalist and civil rights activist Miss Steinem was a co-founder of both New York magazine and even more notably for women Miss magazine when Miss hit the stands in 1972 I was a senior in high school here in Austin and about to enter the University of Texas to major in journalism Like many many women of my generation. I was desperate for role models and here came Gloria Steinem She was brainy a Phi Beta Kappa Graduate of Smith College. She was brave She was bold enough to both speak out on and write about abortion Birth birth control and equal rights and She spoke of things that resonated with me my sister and our female friends How it felt to be treated as frivolous just because we were women Miss Steinem has written a number of books including her most recent one The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off President Barack Obama awarded her the presidential medal of freedom just one of countless honors bestowed on her She's not done yet making real change in our country and in our world. She's following the advice She offers in her new book Whatever you want to do just do it making a damn fool of yourself is absolutely essential Please help me welcome Gloria Steinem and mark up to grow to our stage Oh good Thank you back I should say yes, I've just discovered it was a half century ago that I was here Sort of upsetting We you were those of you who saw the photo montage May have noticed a couple of photographs of Gloria here on November 9th 1974 So almost 45 years ago to this day. It's quite remarkable. So it's about time we get you back Hi, congratulations on the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off I want to talk about that title for a sec in a sec but the book is comprised of quotes which you call the poetry of everyday life and You go on to write in the books introduction a quote is the essence of the story We all need stories to convey ideas justice anger Humanity hope laughter learning and whatever makes us understand or feel understood We all need words that tell our own story So I'm going to take some of the words that you used in this book tonight and have you tell us your story But let's start with the title What did you mean by the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off Well, the truth will set you free is obviously a classic quote that came from the Bible and that has been used over and over again and It was used by young men resisting the war in Vietnam Because they were saying on their placards the truth of the draft Will set you free from it, you know because and the or the truth of the war will set you free from it So it's it's always been present But I think that adding but first we'll piss you off is just a note of realism, right of real life because it's Most of the truths that we live with we are saying Hello, I can't believe that, you know, we are still fighting the same battles. That's the truth It pisses you off and you need to go on and I just thought it made it human and Penetrable and accessible For for all of us and I do love quotes. I've always loved quotes since I was a child I do think that if you poured water on a quote it would become a novel There are many novels then in this book I was I was interested in hearing you talk about your life in interviews that I read before this interview You you had a very transient upbringing You spent a lot of your your childhood on the road talk about that experience and how it shaped you Yes, I have to explain that my father had a summer resort in southern Michigan And that meant we needed a different source of income in the winter So he who had two points of pride He never wore a hat which in hinge his generation you were supposed to do and he never had a job Those were his two points of So he would put me and my sister and my mother and the dog in a house trailer And start off to either Florida or California where it's warm buying and selling Small antiques jewelry that he got at country auctions Along the way in order to subsidize our path To trailer park to trailer park That meant that we left when it got cold which was about Thanksgiving And I of course, I mean, you know, I was going to the movies like everybody else I wanted to have a house with a picket fence and walk to school, you know But in in retrospect, I think it was a pretty good Way to grow up because I was reading all the time. I love to read I think I learned to read from highway signs and It I think especially in my generation I missed a certain amount of brainwashing Like the Dick and Jane stories. Does anybody remember the dick and Jane sir? I okay. I rest my case And I'm sure that I got from my father this love of a freedom of independence of not being accountable To anyone and I have remained a freelancer all my life I was thinking about it. I've never actually had a job I mean when when you know, of course, we were running Miss magazine for many years and I've been part of starting many things foundations and so on But they were ours, you know, they they weren't situations in which somebody could say you're fired So I guess I am my father's daughter. There it is and you remained on the road too and one of the quotes From the book is you can travel without traveling and you cannot travel yet travel Being on the road is a state of mind. What do you mean by that? Well, it really is. Don't you think it? I Mean if you go out in your neighborhood In an on the road state of mind and just talk to the people you encounter It can be quite different. I don't do it all the time, but sometimes I do it And I discovered that the guy who picks up the garbage I live in Manhattan in a brownstone Is the political boss of Queens? And he is a great guide to what we need to do what elections are happening. What's a, you know It it just if you're standing next to somebody in the elevator, you know, because my father always liked to Shock people in elevators. So So he would train me as a child to say So what did you say daddy? And he would say so I told the man keep your $50,000. Okay, so So I sometimes talk to to people in Elevators just because don't you find that you're standing there? You know, you're Going through the same thing you have this quiet time And you know, why why not why not have a little human communication? That is an on-the-road state of mind There's a great story. I heard you relate about being in a cab And you noticed billboard around vampires One of the students I was so mad that that happened after I finished The road book I was furious Because there are a lot of it not this book but the book about being on the road Your previous previous book Which has a lot of of taxi drivers because I do talk to taxi drivers. I don't always talk to him So I was not actually talking to this taxi driver, but we had stopped For a stoplight next to a big movie or tv poster for vampires A vampire show, right? And I said to him out of nowhere. I said, you know, I think I understand a lot of things But I do not understand vampires. Why did bloodsucking become a theme of You know He turned out You can't make this up to come from transylvania And he explained to me that there was a very Very powerful powerful rich old family Royalty who lived on a mountain and were very cruel to the peasants You know in the lowlands And so the peasants I think gradually made up the idea that these terrible people up there in the mountain were sucking blood and were vampires But what are the odds? When you were launching the the modern Women's movement you said we're talking about a revolution and not a reform Were you born a revolutionary or did you become one? I think we're all born revolutionaries in a way Because as as little kids we we are all saying Two things It's not fair and you are not the boss of me And that is the basis of every social justice movement and every revolution And then we get kind of conned into categories and thinking well We have to do this because we're boys or black or white or I don't know what or belong to this family Right, and it takes us a while to to get out of that But I I do think that Little kids get it You know, I mean even babies, you know the studies of babies show that they are They if you put two babies, you know in proximity to each other, they reach out to each other They share food with each other You know, we're born with empathy That it takes All five senses to experience So it's not that we can as much as I love books It doesn't necessarily happen on the page of a book or on a screen But when we are together with other human beings, which we are meant to be We can sense what other people are feeling and empathize What what was the spark for the for the women's group? What made you realize what did I got born a woman? What can I say? If you were born a woman you would have sparked the women I mean And and it but it took a while because of course You know because of how we grow up we're we're trained to think we have to live a certain way So I for many years Especially in the 50s who here remembers the 1950s. Okay All right, so Um, I assumed I I kept assuming that I would Get married have children be dependent on my husband have his name his life But I just kept putting it off you know putting it off and putting it off and then Other women were lots and lots and lots of other women. We're saying wait a minute, you know, it doesn't Why why is it that way? um We're all unique individual human beings. We all have our own unreplicable talents uh If women spend a year bearing and nurturing a child Why is it not? Right that a man should spend that much more than half the time Uh nurturing the child then later. I mean logic in the is in the eye of the the logician. Hello Hello so So there were just lots and lots of of women saying this partly because Some of us had been part of the civil rights movement and the anti-vietnam war movement and discovered that even in those admirable idealistic movements women were not, you know, we're still getting the coffee sometimes or not being Uh in the leadership positions. So it just became gradually apparent That there needed to be Another movement not not a movement against but a movement for You know to raise up all human talents. So in your case Embracing feminism was not a revolution. It was an evolution. You were evolving. It was a gradual thing You were seeing more and more that you didn't well. I was escaping my socialization. Yeah I mean, unfortunately, I had less socialization as I've already explained But which was an accident but um And and I was catching it from from other people um you know from I don't know Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm and Just so many people You you talk about The meeting among women in 1969 that you've covered for New York magazine Where they were talking about abortion and that really sparked something in you. Can you tell us about that? Yes, that was it when we look back. I think we do sometimes see turning points And that definitely was a turning point because the new york state legislature This was before roe v wade in with the supreme court, right? The new york state legislature had held a hearing on whether or not to liberalize The anti-abortion laws in new york state and they had invited 14 men and one nun to testify You can't make it up, right? Okay, so A group of early feminists mostly younger than I Said wait a minute. Let's let's hear from the let's hear the testimony of women who've actually had this experience So in a church basement in the village, there were I don't know how many people Telling their stories of this experience and I had just helped to start new york magazine So I was there as a reporter with my notebook And I was just totally knocked out. I mean I had never Ever ever in my life heard women stand up in public and Talk about something that was a hundred percent a female experience That was also disapproved of and illegal and taken it seriously It was just mind-blowing And suddenly I realized this makes no sense You know one in three american women needs an abortion at some time in her life And now it's one in four Why is it dangerous and illegal and that Little, you know, it's like catching a thread and a ball of yarn and then the whole ball of yarn Because you realize that what patriarchy is First of all, it's relatively new in human history The native american groups here were not patriarchal and It what patriarchy is by definition is controlling reproduction How many workers how many soldiers who owns them and paternity systems? If there's racism Then it's even more important to keep Control of reproduction because that's the only way That in the long run you can keep races visibly separate It's true in india to the caste system Is redoubles Patriarchy, right? So once it isn't that like pulling a thread and a ball of yarn you say what if that if if the basis of democracy Real democracy Which was here before europeans showed up Is that each person controls at a minimum minimum our own physical selves and our own voices Um Then there will never be a democracy Until women control our own selves our own and men too Absolutely, so that meeting That meeting happens in 1969 you have roe v. Wade in 1973 right but the year before In 1972 you launch miz magazine miz magazine Yes, because as wonderful as new york magazine was And I had for the first time my own column which meant that I could it was Called the city politics so I could write about politics for almost the first time But I could see that there we all could see That there just wasn't a magazine that talked about women's real lives And this is partly not I mean it wasn't all the fault of The female editors of other women's magazines because they were and mostly still are controlled by advertising So you have to produce lots of copy About beauty and hair and clothing and so on in order to get ads for those categories Men's magazines you don't have to do that to the same degree at all But women's magazines do so It was clear that if we wanted Um a magazine that actually talked about women's real lives We were going to have to start it and fortunately clay felker who was the editor and inventor of new york magazine said okay If if we gave him 30 pages of our first issue to enclose in his big year end double issue He would pay for the first issue as a test just to see if people would buy it On the newsstands. It was a supplement essentially, right? Yeah, it was I mean We there were 30 pages that appeared in new york may then there were another hundred pages that we wrapped around And shipped it out across the country Terrified that we would disgrace the movement by producing a failure or you know, we were really scared And we call it we covered dated at spring, you know, so it wouldn't be embarrassing It was out in january, okay And And I and all the other authors jayna riley lots of the other authors were traveling to publicize it On talk shows because we couldn't afford to actually pay to publicize it And when I got to california I was on a morning talk show and somebody called in and said, you know, I can't find it So I called clay. I said clay it never got shipped here. It never got shipped turned out it had sold out In eight days it had sold out So that told us that we were on the right track We succeeded beyond your wildest expectations. Yes, right. I mean, you know, it's not a big money-making machine, you know But the truth is that if we buy books without advertising, why not magazines without advertising? You know, we Or with less advertising and the magazines that aren't by controlled by their ads are the best magazines Did it's did it's long-term success surprise you? um That that first hit was was a surprise Then once it was there and I was traveling And and we got mail. We got mail, you know, thousands. I mean, I just You know, fortunately, we saved all the letters, but um It was as if The magazine was a personal message coming into people's houses Saying no, you're not crazy. You're not alone. You've right just incredible life stories That that came back and actually our mail was always our biggest source of stories Because the public opinion polls were way behind So we could learn from our letters That people were wondering how late they could wait to have first babies say or That um You know they in those days Women were mad. They had to dress for success. Do you remember that you had to wear little ties and you know look like a guy and so We had a very successful cover with a woman's hand holding on a hanger one of those over a garbage can You know dropping a thing. You don't have to dress like a guy for suit, right? Um, I just you know, it was a constant Dialogue between us and millions of readers In the immediate term, what did you hope to achieve from the women's rights movement? Uh, well, how long do we have? You know I mean Initially when when the movement was sparked, did you have an immediate goal in mind? Well, the immediate goal was that we get to control and make decisions over our own physical selves Uh, also That we get to be paid equally For the work that we are doing And equally to to a man and not disguised by different titles and so on also that We was clear from the beginning that women couldn't be equal outside the home Until men were equal inside the home Until men are raising children Or being raised to raise children as as much as women are so You know, those were like radical crazy ideas, you know in the beginning, but they have become Uh, most of them have become majority goals by now. So there's it's it's it's more the The consciousness that has changed and you know, I was just talking to people earlier this day And there are there is maternity and paternity leave Now, I mean that didn't exist before So, you know, you can pick your area, but you can see The gradual progress, but it is huge. It is going to take a long time Because patriarchy and racism and those the intertwining of those two as I explained are deep They're new But they're deep So if if Liz carpenter had a crystal ball when you're on stage 45 years ago And she had told you where we would be in 2019. Would you be disappointed? Well, I wouldn't believe that trump was in the white house I mean And and neither would she can you imagine what she would say But would you have but generally speaking would you look at where we are in 2019 and think gosh, I wish We would have done more in 45 years than we've done it. Would you say, you know what we're doing pretty well Well, I I kind of think both things are true, you know, because um I wouldn't have thought I don't know, but I don't think I would have thought that we are able to challenge gender per se as much as we are now uh because You know old languages don't have gendered pronouns for the most part So sometimes I think the whole world is divided into two kinds of people those who divide everything into two and those who don't And now thanks thanks to challenging Gender thanks to same-sex gay marriage. Thanks to and parenting children Uh by two members of the same Gender thanks to people who don't identify by gender at all, right? We are finally beginning to get rid of that uh race is Still even though it has even though we all came originally from the same part of southern africa Just we voyaged around and some of us went to countries where there was um Too little sun so we lost our melanin so we could absorb More vitamin c and so and some went to places where there's too much so we got more but there's no race either really We are each A unique individual and we are each That could never be replicated Again, it could never have happened before and we share our humanity but um Because The way we are raised Normalizes various things it it does Take a while One of the i'm going to go back to some of the wonderful quotes in this book One of which is forget about approval go for respect When you first started the movement it was met with ridicule Yes, when we got opposition we thought we were moving forward, you know, right? When did you start getting respect? You know, it's hard to know. I mean just by example for at least 15 and maybe 20 years I was Miss steinham M-i-s-s steinham of miss magazine and the new york times Because They refused to even though they had changed Cassius clay to mohammed ali, and I don't know, you know changed lots of other things They refused to to use miss so they mean even though we picketed and even the That's just a small symbol but And actually miss is an old form of dress incidentally We didn't invent it. It's a very because it was used for Both boys and girls As master and mistress, you know when little kids have that right So we didn't invent it. We we picked it up But in the beginning people didn't want to give me a airline ticket if I wouldn't say Whether I was miss or misses Or an american express card Or, you know, so, you know, we've voyaged a lot from there Was there a particular turning point an inflection point where you said well, this thing's really taking off We're really just seeing major problems. Well, yeah, we elected bella abzuk to congress and she Put bills in congress that to use miss and you know, you have to have your own representatives, right Another quote the first problem for all of us men and women Is not to learn but to unlearn What is the first thing you would want men and women to unlearn? Well, it's not for me to dictate. I mean, you know, each of us knows What's holding us back? So it's not not me, right? But I would say in a general way our shared humanity That we share way more than divides us way more than divides us And that each of us has this unique As I was saying this unique combination of heredity and environment in here That that needs to be set free and men too. I mean men Traditionally anyway have a superior role, but they also are deprived of expressing what are seen as Feminine or female qualities sometimes. I mean boys are told not to cry How crazy is that? You know crying releases stress hormones and helps you survive Um Boys are Not supposed to be Patient or love. I mean and sometimes mothers do this too, you know in in order to Not turn their son into a wimpy, you know, what if they they Start to Divorce themselves from their sons at a certain point and I think that's sometimes a terrible Betrayal it seems to the sun because the person who's often been closest to him is is now right And he may not be able to trust another woman. So it you know, it happens in in all kinds of ways Um, but once you begin to see that doesn't have to happen then it's very exciting So it's basically these these ostensible societal norms that we should unlearn In order to to be more healthier human beings. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't I don't want to unlike president trump I don't think he should be able to shoot people and Shoot somebody on fifth avenue and get away with it. I would like to keep the norm that you can't shoot somebody But as it relates to gender roles and race and race, yeah, right Um another quote being brave Is not being unafraid but feeling the fear and doing it anyway Then you write fear is a sign of growth Uh, you're 85 years old Are you more fearful now than you were when you started coming up in the world? No No, because uh, you know, you you you've seen That change can happen and that if you get a group of people together who are trying to Innovate some change you can do. No, I'm I'm I've become Well, I've become more hopeful for two reasons one. I remember when it was worse two I I see the process of change and Real change Does come from the bottom up not the top down It may be imposed from the top down, but that's not the same thing Uh, how do you actually let me there's another quote you have here This is actually a quote from an interview not from the book You write that all the great social justice movements have begun to remove labels from people and allow us To be the unique human beings. We really are We are living in an extraordinarily divided America and it seems to me that Much of the reasons that for our divisions that we are labeling each other Is there any way to remove the labels and unite our society in these incredibly divisive times? Well, it It feels as if I'm not trying to over generalize, but it feels as if we are kind of uh in a Not a battle because it's not but There because now the majority of the country Agrees with all the social justice movements in the sense that we should not be restricted by race You know, whatever And the environmentalism and I What has happened is that the approximately third or 40 percent of the country That still believes in the old Hierarchical structure feels threatened You know, I mean my best example is that I'm on the road and A guy always some guy who says some version is a middle-aged white guy says A black woman took my job, you know, and I always say who said it was your job, you know, because he It's his sense of entitlement That's his job, right So, uh, our very success In changing majority consciousness Uh has Caused a backlash and that backlash Are very often I don't mean to over generalize, but very often supporting trump I mean, why would the evangelicals be supporting trump given his lifestyle? Because of abortion That's the seems to be the sole issue on which they vote you travel extensively as we discussed earlier You mentioned in the greener when you traveled about 50 percent of the time Did you see this coming? Where we are right now the divisions that That's really define america at this point. No, I I don't think I I fully saw it although I did realize that That it's quite unusual for after two Terms of one party and one president that you don't get a change But I think I got lulled into Feeling that this would be an exception Because trump comes from new york. I come from new york. We know what an idiot he is, you know 96 of people in new york voted against him because they know him And and when people were asked why they voted for him, they said because he's a successful businessman But the truth is that he would be richer if he just invested the money he inherited He is not a successful businessman. So I think I got seduced into thinking That even though we had had two terms of obama And people do tend to vote for change for the sake of change But remember, you know, we did win the majority of votes I mean, you know By what six million three for hillary and three for other candidates. He lost by the biggest margin ever Actually, you talk in the introduction you talk about the electoral college And as as a truth of as an example of the truth will set you free But first it will piss you off Talk about the electoral college and your feelings about it and how we might ultimately get rid of the electoral college Well, uh, it it did come largely from the slave states Who you know because the population of their states Was so much composed of slaves who obviously could not vote that they were even though we already had Two senators from every state Which seems to me a pretty big balance because some the difference between Maine and california is pretty huge um nonetheless The slave states wanted the electoral college And I think it's only once or twice before that somebody has so we haven't paid attention, right, right But now it has alerted us to this very anti-democratic I mean, you know in public opinion polls like 90 of folks say you should be one person one vote So what's happening now as you already know is that state by state uh Legislatures are voting to give their electoral votes To the winner of the national popular vote And I think there are 14 states that have done this so far. I don't know about texas. Do you know? We all have to find this out, okay But at a certain point it makes the electoral college irrelevant the other way is a constitutional amendment and that takes much longer Uh another quote the things you regret sometimes turn out to be the things you celebrate in other words You can learn from what you've done wrong What is the greatest mistake you've made in your career the greatest regret you had in your career and what did you learn from it? Well, I I think my biggest regret is not writing more you know because I I started out life to be a writer And you know, I really Haven't written that much And that's a disappointment to me But it also caused me to expand I mean In the beginning because I couldn't publish feminist articles in the places I had been publishing and therefore Began to go out and speak because I was getting invitations uh and because I couldn't I mean I you know, I how many people are afraid of public speaking. I think it's the fear next to I don't know what death practically I I I couldn't imagine doing it So I asked a fearless friend of mine Dorothy Pittman Hughes to come with me um and we traveled around and because She we were one white woman one black woman together Then we began to realize how important that was She then had a baby and wanted to stay home with her baby. So then Florence Kennedy a woman I hope you know a wonderful great woman a civil rights lawyer and so so she I began to travel with her uh and this um This failure to to get write and get published in the way I expected to Caused me to understand to experience The magic of all five senses Okay, because much as I love books You can't empathize In the same way that you can when you're together with all five senses You only produce oxytocin that tend to be friend chemical that allows you to know what someone else is feeling right When we're together with all five and because I I didn't want to talk that much. I always we both always left As much time as we were talking for the audience to to talk um and Before we arrived. I mean, I'm sorry. We can't do this here. But anyway before we arrived people would Say, oh, you can't do that somebody will get up and dominate You know, you can't let people just stand up. They would always want to write down questions I said, are you kidding if somebody stands up and takes up too much time somebody else will tell them to sit down You know, you can trust an audience and also If you do it with any with a certain amount of freedom and time People start to answer each other's questions And you out there know things I haven't a clue about and somebody over here says This is happening and it's wrong and somebody over there says me too and somebody over there says here Here's how we can fix it and there's a meeting happening. So, you know, so it just was like magic absolute magic So you've gotten over this public speaking thing. No I No, I I mean right now. I mean, I still have this main symptom of public fear I mean fear of public to me, which is I lose all my saliva. Does that happen to you? Right Each tooth becomes like a little angora sweater that you But I've learned I don't die, you know, this is very helpful In 2006 in February of 2016 you and Madeleine Albright attended a rally in New Hampshire For Hillary Clinton Who's campaigning at the time for the nomination against Bernie Sanders, of course and and Madeleine Albright said To the women in the audience, there's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other By which she was essentially saying you need to support Hillary Clinton You ended up getting into the fray on this this controversy Did the backlash over that Comment surprise among you know, I think did it surprise you? I think it happened. I don't think we were at a rally together I think it happened in the press And the the the question That the confusion was That we were saying That we should that women should support support other women because there were women, right? I mean Sarah Palin all by herself should have done away with that argument So You know, it was just one of those misunderstandings that flies, you know through the media, right? But it but it it sort of took on the life of its own and I think what what many people read from that is that you Women who waged the movement were on the front lines of the movement years ago Were misunderstood by a new generation of women. Is that is that a fair assessment? Maybe you may be right. I don't know. I didn't think it was generational I just thought it was a misunderstanding, you know as to Why you would support someone do you do you feel like you understand the current generation of women? Or do you feel like you're on the same page more or less at least and I'm delighted to see them I feel like I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born. I mean, they're great And we we need I mean generational divisions are just as bad as other divisions The we need each other, you know, because I am somewhat more hopeful because I remember when it was worse And also I have organizing tactics that I can bring and say maybe this will work. Maybe that will work They're mad as hell because it is better and we need their anger and Techie understanding of you know how to organize on the web and so we need to organize together And I I hope we think about that It's simply In in our daily lives, you know, if you are going to something That young people don't have access to Take some young people with you and if you are very young And going to something that old people don't go to take some old people with you, you know We we need each other. Is this generation fundamentally different than your generation? No, we're not fundamentally different. I mean and first of all It it's not just generational if you are born in a very say religious conservative family You are kind of more like First way or you know People who started in the 50s or the 60s If you are born in a very democratic family You are more so it's not just history. It's your personal situation, right Did the me too movement surprise you it's coming along as late as it has Well, no because I've seen the progression You know, so it was a logical Of course. Yeah, it was just A consciousness You know flying in a very courageous way Because the term sexual harassment Came from women at Cornell University in the summertime Or after the summertime they were trying to describe what happened to them in their summer jobs. They made up the term Right We at Ms. Magazine put a cover did a cover story On sexual harassment using puppets so we wouldn't be too shocking We were put off the newsstands anyway in the supermarket Then Catherine McKinnon Brilliant lawyer with us, you know, brilliant feminist lawyer wrote sexual harassment into sex discrimination law So whether it's men or women being harassed it counts as sexual discrimination Then Anita Hill remember Anita Hill, okay educated the country Even though she lost and even though we have I'm sorry to say Clarence Thomas is still there She she that hearing educated the country and just Suddenly people said that happened to you that's happened to me. That's right, you know And this is a continuation me too is a continuation of that And now it really is a majority movement and now people who are predators Like Harvey Weinstein and others Are losing their jobs as well. They should right As a successful Revolutionary you look back at looking at me too Has it been waged in the right way? It's to to maximum effectiveness. I think so. I mean because I I don't know that there is one right way Because now we have the web and that's you know, me too is a function of the web because it's it's in every country When we had our big women's march right after The inauguration of trump there was it was the biggest one this country has ever seen There were people, you know marching at the brandenburg gate in germany and kenya and so you know because Of the web we you know things expand in in this enormous consciousness way But it it had been happening in any way In the street and with slogans and just It's contagious. It's contagious So social media another form of activism Well pressing sin doesn't actually do anything, you know, so It I mean, but you can find information and people who feel the same and some So it's a great aid to activism. It is not in and of itself activism. It builds communities Yeah, I know you get information and and uh people who feel and questions answered and where the meetings are and Uh and me too and you know shared experience and all of that it It doesn't per se change something but it leads to change in a big way Do you have a favorite quote One you would live your life by Well, I mean my favorite one because I think it's the shortest way I've ever Arrived at saying what I want and I think a lot of us want Um is that we are linked. We are not ranked So, you know for shortness I I value that one, right? Uh, there's a there's a quote you said, uh Um when you've been asked Uh, whether you would pass the torch You've said I'm not giving up my torch, but I'm using it to light the torches of others Yes, I know when people say that who are you passing the torch to I say you kidding. I'm not giving up them, you know I'm keeping my torch, but I But And I'm using my torch to light other people's torches Because the the thing that the whole thing about one torch is bullshit. That's that's like a hierarchical thing one person But no, we all needed torch. Otherwise, we don't know where the hell we're going What leaders uh who are carrying the torches that you've let you most look to to lead the movement That you waged to to continue to leave the movement that you oh, there's so many. I mean I just can't I mean They're just so many I I can't Even begin to enumerate them. I mean aoc and the women in congress are great and Um, I they're just too many right who are your heroes when you were coming up when you were a young person looking for guides Who are who do you well my first heroes? I was saying was louisa may all caught. I mean she you know because you know I used to imagine that she would come back to life and what would I show her first? You know, that's right. I mean she was my friend, right? And My mother loved the rosa felts lnr in franklin So much so that a tears would come to because she always said They got us out of the depression and she would tell me how poor we were in the depression. So You know, I had a great feeling For them it gave me a feeling that who the president was made a difference in in daily life But they're the otherwise there there weren't a whole lot of People until later. I mean you you you kind of couldn't be it. You had to marry it And and that remained true politically if you think about it that how Uh women became governors how they became senators was to marry a senator or governor wait for him to die Mobb barker wasn't that one of texas, right and um The famous anti eugenie mccarthy and not eugenie mccarthy, but Anti mccarthy Woman in the senate What was her? Anyway, she she also had become a senator By marrying a senator and waiting for him to die. I mean it doesn't seem like a very healthy Right What what as you look back on your life, what accomplishment are you proudest of? I don't I don't know I don't know but I mean I don't think that way because i'm so interested every day You know, I'm just so fascinated with what's going on and I think you know, you see something happening You think well, maybe if we said this that would happen You know right now Issues or concerns have grown up because of the way we experience them in kind of silos and we're Only just beginning to experience the connections For instance The biggest indicator Is a wonderful book called sex and world peace that shows this and every nation in the world The biggest indicator of whether There will be violence inside a country or That country will use military violence against another country Is not poverty access to natural resources Religion or even degree of democracy it's violence against females Not because female life is any more important than male life. It is not But because of patriarchy and and religious patriarchy's and so on It's what You see first and it kind of Makes Raises people thinking that one group has a right To dominate the other You can see it. Look at the terrorist groups. The terrorist groups are incredibly gender polarized And and the more democratic and peaceful places On earth are not are much way less gender polarized Okay, this should be a pillar of our foreign policy. It is nowhere in our foreign policy It's the biggest indicator so you know that that's It's You know angering and exciting to me Because you can explain that And make it happen. It would be helpful In our assessing of what is going on in in other countries Not to mention our own leaders, you know, I mean You know, I I mean I can't discuss trump. But anyway, but he Uh, he certainly is a big time. You know, he had he has a sister who's a judge. I'm so curious about her We have to find out what's I'm gonna I'm gonna respectfully and people ask me You know what I would say to uh, what's his wife's name? If uh, uh, Melania Melania People are always asking me what I would say to Melania. I've got the perfect answer I have a guest room I've got I'm gonna respectfully press you on the last question to ask which is your proudest accomplishment Uh, let me put it another way. You have read led a remarkable life. How do you want to be remembered? Well, it's kind of not up to me You know, this is this is my punishment because as a journalist interviewing people I used to ask them that question Now I The tables have turned right I I I just think as a good person with a good heart Who tried to leave um The world or my part of you know, a little More just and less violent and more kind than it was when I showed up While you While you still have that torch What do you want to accomplish going forward? Ah, well, I mean I have to live to a hundred just to fulfill my book contract And um The you know, there there are tons of things Um It happens that Julie Taymor, do you know who the wonderful filmmaker Julie Taymor, right? To ask for the rights to my roadbook and she's making it into a movie So I don't know what's what it's going to be, but I just think she's a genius so So when that comes out, I think we can use it to um Go through swing states and organize the vote and so on. I don't I mean, you know life is so unexpected. Did I think that my roadbook was going to know Uh, did you ever see across the universe? If you haven't seen it because I think that what she she took Beatles songs and used them to Uh portray the worldwide and a vietnam movement and it's a genius movie And I think maybe she's using me as an excuse to portray the The women's movement, right? The book is the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off The woman with the torch is the remarkable and redoubtable Gloria Steinem and we thank you so much for being here and for your remarkable time Thank you very much