 Okay, hello everyone, it's Anthony here at the desk at Amplify Trading Slightly different session. So not specifically talking about something in markets is going on right now. Although The pound has just dropped quite dramatically on the back of some latest comments to do with Brexit But we'll leave that for a different briefing. Purpose here is I'm catching up with a former trainee at Amplify that we had back in 2015. So you might remember Amplify Trading featured on a BBC documentary as I'm showing on my screen to the side of me called Millions by the Minute This was back in 2015 when it was aired and one of the main people that was featured on that program was a chap called Ben Marsh and Ben trained with us and this was a number of years ago now and I've been fortunate enough to have Ben Make his way out from the countryside to come and join me and what I thought I'd do is just record a catch-up Just a very informal conversation between me and Ben just about what he's been up to what he's been trading I thought it might be very beneficial for those a Interested in potentially looking to learn to trade and for those who are more experienced and just learning from another guy of experience in that essence so transition over Ben welcome. Good morning. Good morning. It's good to be back. Yeah Yeah, I mean it's been where how many years was it when you were last in the office It was over five years ago five six years and I've got to the age where five years goes past in a heartbeat Which is a little bit scary But I mean it's I suppose me being here will answer a question that anyone that watched the documentary would have which is Is he still doing it? Yeah, because obviously this is a business where You know the failure rate is way over 90 percent. Yeah, I'm for very good reason that as I'm sure all the people training with you will discover Trading itself is not That difficult, but the psychological side is almost impossible And even when you start to master it, you still get the chattering voice telling you to do all sorts of bad stuff prospect theory and all this sort of thing and It's developing the discipline because For most people the fantasy of trading is one that I can live in a world of freedom You know boundary list endless possibility the only way you can survive in it is to create a Really, really strict set of parameters and rules, but and you never deviate from Yeah, and certain things you never do you never do an impulse trade because again at the beginning you imagine What if I do an impulse trade you must have a 50 50% chance of success, right? Things either go up or down No, they almost Never work and even if they do You've actually still got to see it as a bad trade because you didn't follow your rules And it was luck and it was you know taking a punt I almost feel like I need to roll you out at the beginning of every time Yeah, we sat in front of a new group of traders because you know, certainly This is something we always communicate prior to them starting the course, but also the first day Yeah, but then obviously as you've probably experienced whether yourself or other people you've seen Yeah, human nature is it almost takes getting burned totally have this realization Well, it's a bit like as a new dad. Hence the fact. I'm looking so tired Trading but when you you suddenly realize, you know, your parents always tell you loads of stuff when you're a kidney I yeah, yeah, whatever. You suddenly realize later in life. Do you know what actually they were right and You know, there are certain fundamental things in trading that you cannot avoid Don't over trade. Don't make your stops too tight. Don't impulse trade You know, you've always got to have a very clear plan of what you're doing if you break any of these rules, you will lose money if You're trading in to make your next mortgage payment. Don't do it because you will make a Terrible series of decisions as soon as you equate it with money or if I do this I can buy my girlfriend in you bit and w whatever it is You will start doing things for the wrong reasons and if you do it for the wrong reason It will result in costing you an awful lot of money and with leverage cost you Of course, of course, I mean people say It's like gambling. It's actually infinitely worse Because gambling, you know what you're gonna lose You know trading you can lose and I've watched people You know, you've got to be able to take the time Amplify offers great training But the only way to come good at it is to do it. Yep, and again You've got to do it with real money. You can be the best Sort of sim account trader in the universe. Yeah, it means nothing because when You're there and it's your cash on the line and you start to get those feelings in your stomach Or whichever other organ you want to pick, you know, again the impetus to do Crazy stuff, you know can become overwhelming until you've got the discipline And you need the length of time to be able to see it as a steer You know, for example, if I'm trying a new setup, I'll I'll set myself 25 attempts at it and I'll look at a period of 25 attempts of that setup to see if it's worthwhile Right now clearly of the first 18 don't work. He's saying yeah, they're not looking so good But you've got to remove yourself from the thing which when you start trading if it goes your way I'm a genius. He goes against you. I'm useless. So I guess on that point then from you having traded for now several years Yeah, what? You know what part of your development did that did you did you manage to control that as an emotion if you like that kind of Well, it's an ongoing battle you've become better at it, but it's always there Hmm, and I suppose when you've lost a bit of money doing it. That's a fantastic Not to do it again, you know, it's the Einstein, you know definition of madness to keep doing the same thing expecting a different result Right. So I mean if you keep on doing something stupid and it costs you money if you carry on doing it that is madness It's But again, it's just part of that you've you're seeing it as a long-term process I never judge my daily results. I'll never look at less than weekly because I You know, I said to you on our conversation earlier. I do a lot of meditation and The more I do trading the more is the equivalent to my meditation. You've got to have absolutely no opinion and You've got to have no ego as soon as you invest ego In your belief The market should do this basically because I say it should then You're cooked because the thing is, you know University I'll talk classical economics and it's lots of rational individuals making decisions in their own self-interest Which is complete bollocks, you know The economic police A lot of middle-aged dons are gonna come and give me a kicking. Okay, so just a not to panic everyone. We're safe and sound But you know, we all know that it's I mean for me Markets looking at pulses of fear and greed and you get all sorts of group think and You get the fact that a move will confirm itself and then you get all and the secret to doing this Well, I'm first of all, you always enter a market when it's quiet and get out when it's noisy You know, because I mean all the suckers coming at the end of the move You know, you get a FOMO thing and everyone goes. Oh, I'm missing out right the great thing is on my screens at home. I've got 38 markets, so I mean there are constant moves. I'm missing. Yeah, so I couldn't care less I guess on that point. So just so the audience is a bit more familiar with well, I guess two things What is it specifically that that you trade now and also how do you trade right in terms of so amplify? We obviously start the training process with a global macro over the cross-asset class using Fundamentals and technicals, but how do you develop that? Okay for yourself? Individual thing I know when I left here, and I say, you know them just to promote the brand I gave me a fantastic grounding, but I then spent a year deconstructing it and finding that's something that suited my personality It's essential that you find style of trading that suits you and a market that suits you is equally important I mean for example personally up because I trade futures. I Trade oil and gold very well Well, he says modestly I trade, you know, I make money doing it. Yep. I'm good with the US indices For the life of me bonds I cannot trade at all and as Clint Eastwood famously says in a dirty Harry movie a man's got no his limitations and Could I learn to come a good bond trader? Maybe maybe not, you know, I'm already a middle-aged get I'm life's too short If you find something that works for you, you know, I'm not here seeking as a thrall seeker I'm here to earn some corn. Yeah, because you go through everyone goes through this transition. We all do the same thing. Yeah Early in your trading career, you seek complexity as someone who uses a lot of technicals I'll just get that one more indicator You know that will reveal everything you end up piling loads of stuff on your screen as you become more experienced Yeah, you have to strip it all down because for technicals you need volatility volume oscillator and something showing a trending market because I'm at the end of the day. The first thing you've got to know When you come in the morning is what's what is the market? Is it trending? Is it choppy? Is it range bound? If you don't know that you've got no chance because you know as you know better than me Something that works brilliantly is in a trending market is catastrophic in a reversal to the mean market And that's what we were talking about earlier was this idea I think when you when you come in to rationalize and put into context that day, yeah, and that every day is unique Yes, there is a as I will teach people. There's a kind of a hierarchy of macro themes Yeah, like the ongoing trade war will be present and apparent for a number of months But the point is is that it goes through this ebbs and float. We just had a Brexit comment come out Yeah, if the pound drops to 3% all of a sudden that becomes a focal point Yes sentiment and so every day like you're right saying it's almost this this evolution of being Confident in the fact that actually I can adapt to the market conditions But I guess this is experience and also it's a great thing I mean why if you can get it right trading is a great group particularly in the environment We're in I'm saying earlier. I don't tend to trade August because it's like very light volume I mean I because I do a lot of swing trading, but there's in August I shorten my time frame because obviously low volume you'll get lots of random spikes stuff chops around all over the place If you catch a move it will tend to be short-lived As I say you've got to know your markets you've got to know your strengths and Don't try and do too many different sorts of trades. You've got to find a couple of things that work for you There are guys that make have extraordinary careers doing one thing and that's great You know as I say I've a wife two kids and an expensive lifestyle to support You want something that you can feel confident at the start of the month Actually, I'm not going to end up having to give my house away And so and so then this leads on to second the main point. Yeah, that's what you finished there You want to be confident? Yes, and actually that is the you know as long with of course discipline Yeah, but having the confidence. This is what really will define performance It is like with anything like with the top elite athlete, you know, they're all very good Yes, but the difference between the winner and the loser. Yeah is a state of mind often rather than a technical performance But it's got to be reasoned confidence. It's not yes You know, I mean a lot of people have an awful lot of confidence in themselves Yeah, which is not borne out by anything with the rear But I mean at the end of the day you're playing probabilities and you've got to set yourself up I mean for example one of the best lessons I learned here because originally when I Traded here, we'll give them full futures contracts and start with one contract There's that the other you you had to focus on limiting risk Which meant my stops were far too tight and the biggest way to or one of the key ways of Losing money is to have tight stops which may sound counterintuitive, but You know at the end of the day when you're looking for a market to drop into a zone that you can enter It's it's a range and you've got to be prepared to take some heat You've got to be prepared for it to move against you a bit and you know necessary scale in or whatever But just so that you can enter a market With a high probability of it working in your favor or a Probability that works financially at the end of the month because I mean this is a game of probabilities at the end of the day and the part of it's like another key lesson that's interesting is and And again an advantage of being slightly older is In Oscar Wildset experience is the name we give our mistakes The only reason you have some wisdom later in life is not that you're any smarter But you've made every mistake in the book and you've turned around and got do you know what actually that doesn't work A key thing people can do Say you have a 10 grand account and you make 50% in two months The natural thing people think is if I put a hundred grand in there, I'll also make 50% doesn't work that way you almost certainly Lose all your money because Psychologically it just changes what you do. I mean I was actually approached A few months ago by someone saying would I trade some of their money or some of their clients money? Was not remotely interested because first of all You get far less return for equal risk You feel all the extra pressure of looking after someone else's cash and it's enough The margins between success and failure are so fine in this but anything that shifts you yeah Your personal outlook even 5% is enough to turn you from a winning trader into someone who literally Creates and unless you're on it for example, you know, I've got two young kids if I'm really tired I mean luckily, you know, I come to my place in London can trade from there so can get away from it But if I'm tired, I don't trade the best decision you can make as a trader often is to do nothing Yeah, or if I'm in a swing trade don't watch it once you're in because you you know If you're in a good position and it comes massively against you You know for a time the natural thing is to go. Oh, that's it. I'm gonna get out You know, it's very important to retain a sense of detachment I never make trade decisions in real time. I'll always use limit orders because unless there's it there it meets my criteria for getting into a trade and don't do it and We all like to think, you know, we're smarter than the next guy. The fact is The market choose each of us up. There's a guy I deal with in the States. He says it's an equal opportunity dream killer and it's true and You know, you've got to find the sort of trading that suits you whether you're Primarily a fundamentalist or technician I've got to find the markets that suit you Also down to little things chat rooms for example, I was saying to you earlier I've you know, I've got lies feasts the states and stuff and people have throughout chat ideas I never it's just not something that suits me. I like to make my own decisions for some people of the the collector part of that is incredibly important the sense of Community people throwing out ideas My cynical attitude is if there's a 97% failure rate, I make the assumption that nine out of ten things I'm listening to and not worth it. But there's they're both equally valid views. It's whatever suits you if you're someone that likes being a lone wolf, you know, not Then you must follow that path if you're someone that needs that group vibe then follow that I think it's like you said a moment ago about I know it's a bit cliche, but it's understanding self. Yeah, what your strengths and your weaknesses are and how you operate What's your emotional cues and all these different things? But it is a journey and stuff It's a bit like the con around of all hearts of darkness that was then Into apocalypse now and it's about Someone journeying down a river into in the book darkest Africa to find an evil General Kurt's but it's actually a metaphor for a journey into your own soul to look at your own heart of darkness In many ways trading is that because it's a study in your own fears. We all project an image It's like when you're on a first date you put on this pantomime of who you are, you know, you're not jealous You're not angry. You're not grumpy. You're not tight with money You know, you're this wonderful person that you can't believe no one else has snapped up. Yeah The great thing about the market is there's no hiding from it You know, it either works or it doesn't now There's a more nuanced aspect that you can do terrible trades that make money and very good trades that lose But you and you've got to develop that understanding, but the great thing About it. It's it's very humbling. Yeah, you know, you can't escape from the fact that if you make a terrible mistake It is there on your bottom line at the end of the day or whenever you want to look at it Yeah, but that's a great way of learning. Yeah, actually, I mean that's it's almost like that's that's actually what I love about markets Yeah, like even from my role, which is more I guess from an analysis point of view It's the fact that you know, you're accountable in terms of you have a view and I have to express my reasoning behind it And then it either works or it doesn't I'm either right or I'm wrong in that sense the same for a trader It's that instant payoff It's actually intellectually really interesting, which I'll be honest when I first started this I married someone much younger and prettier than me and as a middle-aged ball get you think I better impress her with something and thought, you know, I'll do it hopefully to earn some money because I you know invested very successful for a long time and But actually it's it's a fascinating thing and whatever your Your preference is some people are very highly mathematical and we'll look at it as a series of algorithms or whatever I'm not I obviously use maths when you look at hourly price movement ranges or daily price movement ranges In fact, I've had into your entry points and exit points But for me I find the psychology of it fascinating as I say it is pulses of fear and greed and you're watching a Mass conglomeration of human irrationality and I find that really really interesting. Yeah, okay Well, well, look the to wrap things up. Yeah, because you want to keep people engaged. Sorry Sorry, my poor not your fault But what not to put you on the spot too much But what would you what would be then if someone was still either looking to learn to trade or in the infancy of their kind of Development in terms of their trading What's your kind of one piece of advice that you'd give to people having now done this for several years? If you're doing it to earn the next mortgage payment do something else Because you've got no chance if you're doing something to find a fascinating way to survive in uncertain times And you've got the patience and the discipline then it's a fantastic way to earn a living Good. Well, I'm not even going to add any more on that. That's a good way to close So let me just quickly transition. So guys, I hope you found that Interesting obviously do check out even the the original documentary. I'm sure we'll reshare that and you can see The journey of Ben I guess from where where he started with us a couple years back to where he's got to now Do feel free to leave a comment as well on the video if there's any questions at all Would be more than happy to help but hopefully found that interesting. Thank you again to Ben for coming in I'm sure we'll keep in touch and hear other dates soon. Okay. Thank you very much guys