 Good afternoon. Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii. Thanks so much for joining us. We're moving into a holiday season here. It is starting with the one that reminds us of things to be thankful for. And so we're going to talk a little bit about that today, but in order to get to what we're thankful for, we've got three very insightful, wise, experienced women leaders to share some perspectives and insights on what some of the roadblocks and speed bumps might be on the way to that. We have Professor Venialia Randall, Professor Emerita from University of Dayton School of Law, one of the country's leading experts on race, racism, and the law. We have Louise Ng, a leading community service, women's law, women's rights activist, and a partner in the Denton's firm here. We have Tina Patterson, mediator, arbitrator, entrepreneurial, and business coach and advisor from Germantown, Maryland. See, I figured out how to avoid New Jersey now. We're not going to put you there. Don't worry about it. We'll leave Chris Christie by himself. Rightfully so. So when we look at the communications, the relationships going on around us, what do you folks see as missing? What are we not picking up on? What are we not prioritizing? What are we not getting that we need to get back on track with each other here? Louise? Oh, Chuck, thank you so much for putting me first. I was hoping you would ask Professor Randall since she's new. Okay, well, I'll just kick it off. I mean, I just, I'm looking at the national news. I've heard that actually one stress release suggestion is to stop looking at the news because it is upsetting every day. But, you know, most recently, we had Paul Gosar centred in Congress for a very inappropriate mean that, of course, picked on a female legislator, Ocasio Cortez, and it's just like, what is going on? Why can't we have a better level of civility? Not to mention the fact that, you know, we just need a greater recognition among all people that, you know, yes, diversity, inclusion, racial justice, social justice is important. And it's not threatening anybody. You know, it's not threatening the people who are speaking up against school boards, for instance. And, you know, maybe we need to get women more involved in leadership. You know, it always, it seems oftentimes that it's the women's groups within the legislature, even in Congress, I've heard where the women, you know, there are lines of communication and discussions can be had. So we just need less gun-totin testosterone-filled rhetoric. Okay, that's just me venting. So let's take a look at the Gosar situation. Why do you think media are not talking about the fairly obvious gender bias, person of color bias, a woman of a younger generation bias? All those implicit biases that seem to be fairly characteristic major part of this. I was just watching a Netflix show documentary, and I forget the name of it, but it's looking at a series of the medias, and I'll try to think of the name of it, the media's impact on discussion. And the problem for me, I don't see anything really different. I'm saying the same thing I always say, which is this was the way it was 50 years ago. And Gosar has been this way forever, since he's been in, and the media has allowed him. And he's been so bad that his siblings have issued letters saying, our brother's crazy. He doesn't represent, you know. And so what he's done is not new at all. And I have to admit I'm a little bit in shock that the house actually did something because they haven't done anything. The problem, and I'll say this real quick. Our youngest son is home. He surprised me. He came from England. I have this view of parenting, which is, if one of the child does something that they should not do, you must publicly discipline them. Because how else will the other children know that their behavior was unacceptable? And I don't mean beat them necessarily, but it's something public has to happen. Because otherwise, bad behavior escalates. Gosar has been doing this, and he's been doing some pretty horrible, racist, sexist things. And, you know, he's been able to get away with it. So I have to say I was shocked that the house actually did something. I didn't expect them to do anything. Inna, your thoughts? Oh, what's missing? You know, I have written down a couple of things, but I think underlying this is something that you said, Chuck, which is we keep wanting to return to normal. Normal stopped as we know it two and a half years ago. And I think on many levels, it's time for us to talk about what's next, what's now. I'm in a part of the country where we, depending on the COVID transmission, we're wearing masks or we're not wearing masks. And people are saying I'm tired of wearing a mask, to which I would like to ask, are you tired of living or tired of minimizing the opportunity for you to contract a virus disease that no one has seen the found a cure for? It's the, I think having the real conversation about the exhaustion, whether it's the exhaustion of saying what Louise mentioned, you know, it's not okay for you to create a video in which you're attempting to kill me because I'm a woman or because I'm a person of color. But also recognizing that for those who feel guilt or angst, that their response to this exhaustion is to push back. And we're seeing this in some of the local elections where people that two years ago or more, we would have never thought would be elected, are being elected again. I think on some level, we thought that November 2020 changed everything. And I don't think it has. And I think that's the, that's a starting point for us. I like you, Professor Randall, I'm surprised at the house of representatives censured the representative in question. But I think underlying that and this it's not about the political affiliation. It's more, I dislike you on an intrinsic level. I dislike you because you are X. And sometimes it's not because of political label. It's because of what you actually believe or think. I think that's what's missing is is the, you know, let's pump the brakes. Let's stop. What happens now? We can't go back to 2019 and recreate or we can't go back to late 2018 and recreate. We have to start from where we are right now and things have changed. And I think on some levels, we're not embracing that change. We don't know how to embrace that change. And part of the issue becomes, I really do think that we, you know, I think that we think things have changed in the same way we thought things on racism has changed because Obama was elected. No, things that racism continued after Obama and Trump's election just solidified what Republicans were already doing. Republicans had spent decades being a cult. Nobody would call them that. And so they got away with their cultish behavior because nobody wanted to say that. And so I, you know, going back to 2019 is to just go back to a gentle, milder cult. And I didn't mean to take us down a negative rabbit hole, but I think it's, it's, there's threads of nationalism and xenophobic behaviors that, that we're seeing that we've seen it so much that we've almost become, we've accepted them as quote normal. And, and I think that's where with the goes our video, that's why the media, well, you know, it's okay, it's just one step forward, you know, it's just the next step. And I know I talk about this book a lot, but I'll bring it up again, how democracies die. This, this is right out of the book where, you know, certain behaviors after a while, you've seen it so many times that you just, okay, that, you know, no one's saying anything, so it must be okay. When, no, it's not okay. That anime is not okay. But we've seen other videos and other messages where, you know, after a while you feel like, am I the only one screaming, am I the only one yelling and saying this isn't fair, this isn't right, or your voice is being drowned out. I know that the younger people like to use the term gaslighting, but, you know, that's part of it. So I can look to a more positive space. Well, I think we need more positive news. That's the problem. I mean, you know, let's look at the media's role and they're, you know, going for the sensational story, which is usually the very negative one and the one gets, that gets people gaslit. But there's good things going on too. I mean, yeah, Professor Randall, I certainly agree with you that some of this is like, have things really changed because it doesn't feel like it. But I think that there are things that are different, the level of conversation about social and racial equity, you know, the discussions and efforts within businesses and organizations within my law firm to, you know, try to be better allies and be more sensitive to, you know, promoting diversity in our still very, you know, majority dominated firm, I think are all good things. But it's, you know, I think you're both right and we just can't rest on our laurels or the laurels of the 2020 elections. We always have to be vigilant. We always have to keep fighting for democracy and the right to vote and get people to vote and get people to be socially responsible and engaged. Thank you, Louise. Yes. So maybe that's the focus is holding up models of responsibility and holding people accountable for severe deviations. Oh, you hope people accountable and the system designed to make sure that they won't be accountable and that's Democrats and Republicans. They get elected and school boards, you know, we think that that's something different on a local level. But I spent five years going to school board meetings trying to get a school sport suspension stop. And when I first started going to stop getting school suspension stop, and you would think school boards elected, they represent the community. This was in Dayton, Ohio. Most of the school board members were fairly level. Couldn't get them to do nothing. Couldn't get them to to act progressive, to make progressive changes. Systems have a way of protecting themselves. And one of the ways they protect themselves is through incremental change. Because whatever incremental change you make, the system has time to adapt and respond. And I mean, I was I just so I don't know, maybe I'm just old and tired. My kids say that. So maybe that's it. I've just gotten old and tired. What do your kids say, Professor Randall? Are they more optimistic? What's their thinking? My youngest son is in the same category I am. We tend to believe that only a zombie apocalypse will change the United States. That that that what we will have is work, work, work, small, small changes system adapts and continuation of the same system. And I think my oldest son tends to he tends to not believe in zombies. So I think my oldest son tends to think that that there's a reason to work. There's a reason to keep working. But I don't know that I don't think either one of them think that the efforts that they make will change the system. And we're looking now at not only what you described, we've got two trials going on right now, where if you walked out into the community, any community anywhere, and asked people, whether that crossed the line of responsible behavior. I can't imagine how common sense and good judgment could defend either of those. And yet, if you look at the media, if you look at what's happening in those, that's completely blurred. What's going on here? And I think Ryan House, is that his name? Yeah, I think the reality is, is close to 50% of the United States don't think he did anything wrong. And that he was involved in self defense. And that, and that, yeah, and he was just a young guy who got over his head. Yeah, he took a gun when he shouldn't have taken the gun. But yeah, kids do things. I don't know that I think a lot of people don't think he has. I think that it would be almost evenly divided in terms of people who think that he committed a crime. Well, I guess his defense says, you know, come up with a pretty good story about how he had these great intentions. But as you say, Chuck, you know, I'm just looking at common sense. And in both of those situations, what do you expect when you see somebody holding a gun? You're going to try to either take it away from him, or you're going to run away from him. And the idea that these white males have the privilege to think that they're there to have their gun, you know, to for the good is just like insane. I just hope the jury thinks that way. But you know, I don't know. Well, one of the things that's interesting is that Mr. Arbery's mother said, it's clear to her that white men made some very, very wrong assumptions about her son and acted on them in ways that caused his death. So setting aside the question of criminal guilt for murder beyond a reasonable doubt, just looking at where we draw the lines on responsible behavior and what kind of models we're going to enforce in our society. I'm drawn back to Professor Randall's example of how you do it in your home, is if there is irresponsible behavior, a model of what is responsible and the punishment for what isn't is going to be made known to the entire community. And we're not doing that. But in our home, don't we have the privilege of living, at least that's what I call my kids, they lived in a dictatorship. There was no democracy. And so I had the privilege and the ability to lay down the law with them in their common sense. So whatever that was, that, you know, it's like, no, that that ain't fine. But the problem we have is we got all these adults who really have different value systems who didn't really see the world totally different. And, you know, they do believe that the world is flat. They do believe that they're chemtrails. They don't believe that they're, they don't believe the vaccine is a, I mean, there's all of this conspiracy minded thinking. And who gets to lay down a lot of them? And I don't know whether I want them voting, because when they vote, they vote like Texas. And that opens up a completely another subject. And another one of these discussions, one of the panelists said, well, when things get too far toward one extreme, the way that we've traditionally brought it back is by voting the bad ones out and bringing in better choices. Is there a reason to believe that that is likely to happen in the near future? Do you see elections generating a substantial change in the character and conscience of leadership in this country? Well, one can only hope, but, you know, elections can go either way, which just, you know, emphasizes the need for people to be in the right thing, getting more right thinking people, making sure that their right thinking is validated and getting them to vote. You know, we certainly need elected officials who are committed to justice and racial and social justice. But beyond that, if for some reason the elections go wrong, we need to have other backstabs to, you know, people continuing to push in the communities or whatever, local and state government. So what kind of other protections for fairness and justice for those who are excluded, who are marginalized, who are undervalued and mistreated might be possible? I said that's a good question because normally I would say voter education, voter education and knowing the candidates, but I'm going to take the high road on this and only hope for the best. But I think we have to ask the hard questions of our candidates and hear what they're actually saying. The challenge becomes do you vote for the candidate because they've answered the question that you've wanted to hear or do you vote for the candidate because what they're saying and what they're doing don't align. So you look at the next candidate and do you keep what you have or do you go with something different because you're hearing what you want to hear? I don't know if I'm making sense, but for those who don't have access to pick up and call Alderman or the representative, going to the polls, going to that voter booth has been the answer traditionally. Writing the letters has been the answer traditionally and if our leadership has become so concerned about feeding their own ego and maintaining a seat in which they're really not serving, we've got a bigger issue and that is getting back to what's the core of leadership, especially when you're a public servant. Is it serving the public or is it serving yourself? And right now that's a mixed message. We have a lot of elected officials who do the lip service, but not always doing the heavy lifting. We need layers of leadership, know what needs to be in the educational system and in our communities and supporting our nonprofits that are providing the important work, whether it's NAACP on the national level or community organizations and it's civics education at the lower and upper levels of education. Someone pointed out that there shouldn't be, and I think we've discussed this before, there shouldn't be a thing called ethnic studies that is separate from just the study of our national history that really should be part of it. And so there's, having some, the right people in office is one thing, but if they're not the right people in office, then we need to make sure that people's everyday lives in their communities, affected by their local governments, that they are, we get the right thinking people in positions to make change longer term. I think we need to stop telling people that voting will make a difference, that all we really do is play a ping pong game between Democrats and Republicans who are essentially, especially when they're essentially you're saying we get, if we're looking at harm reduction, then Democrats are better. If we're looking at changing the system, they're not really that much better. They just do harm reduction, and they don't even do it. I mean, I look at, I think about the anti-discrimination law, the Supreme Court case that said that you couldn't take for racial discrimination, you could not make a claim against an agency. How long ago was that, 25 years ago? And no administration has tried to get rid of that as a law. And so it's not like the Democrats are doing heavy lifting. They, military budget, look at how many of them voted the military budget in without even questioning how, you know, just we're going to spend this amount of money and now we've got to talk about where the money is for social programs. I think if we need to be honest with people, we said that they know that voting doesn't make a, voting doesn't change the system. It just puts a different group in power in the same system. And we need to really start a discussion about, short of a zombie apocalypse, how do we get the system changed significantly enough where it really will make a difference. And as long as we have a one-party system, I don't see how that can happen. Good thing Jeff isn't here to hear you, Professor Randall. I said it's a good thing Jeff isn't here to hear you say that. I know Jeff, but I go over it. And then. And then, yes. And the system itself, we now have 48 states that have introduced almost 400 pieces of state legislation to restrict voting laws. And so the likelihood that even educated voters might be able to make a difference in bringing in people of character and conscience is in question. And it's, we're back to sort of a point where we started on people who have attained positions of leadership and behaved manifestly irresponsible are not held accountable for that. And that's a problem. So while this is all the time we have for today, it certainly leaves us with a lot to think about, a lot to continue to talk about. Please come back and join us. Thank you for having me. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving everyone. Do think of Think Tech Hawaii. If you're moved to contribute, please do so. It's that time of year. Think Tech depends on its contributions for its survival and for opportunities for open, candid dialogue like this. This is a pretty unique resource. This is not your typical media mainstream or otherwise. So support us if you can. Thanks for being with us. Come back and see us in a couple of weeks. Thank you. Thank you.