 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today, we are joined by Comrade Savitra Bhusa. She is a Central Committee member of the Nepal Communist Party and was a member of the Constance Assembly. She is also a leading member of the All-Nepal Women's Association. Thank you, Comrade, for joining us. Thank you. Namaste. So, we would like to discuss the issue of the caste system in Nepal. So, as you know, across South Asia, the caste system is very prevalent. So, according to the communist movement, what are the characteristics of the system in Nepal? In Nepal, there is caste system. There are so many types of caste system. One is the Dalit and so-called upper caste system. And another is so many Jandhati and other caste also in this society. And there is hierarchy, like not untouchability, even they don't drink water too. And then other things, they do not touch to the people. The upper caste, so-called upper caste people do not touch to the people in this way. There is a caste system also. But nowadays, that has been somehow decreased due to the communist movement and socialist movement in Nepal. And we also have some provision. Article 24 of our constitution has a provision of the right-agnest discrimination and untouchability. And there is a criminal law, according to the constitution. And in the clause 160 of the criminal law, there is... People can't do discrimination according to the caste and other things. If they do, there is a provision of three years imprisonment and 30,000 rupees punishment and both, maybe. And also, there are so many clauses. Clause 161 says that no one can ban on the sale and purchase of goods, being by so-called lower caste, maybe Dalit. And in this way, there will be one year imprisonment and 10,000 rupees punishment or both. And also, there are so many things. No one can force to anybody to work here. First level, that clause is 162 of that criminal code. If someone force some person, according to the caste or anyway, there is a imprisonment of three month imprisonment and 5,000 rupees punishment or both. And also, there is another clause. Clause 163 of that criminal code, which is newly made by our parliament, no one can be slave. There is five years to ten years imprisonment and 50,000 to one lakh rupees punishment and both. So, we can say that our constitution is not so discriminatory. And we made laws according to the constitution. There is a gap between law and the behavior of the people in practice, in villages, rural areas, especially in the Tarahi area, where there are so many Dalit communities and remote area. We need to launch more awareness program on that. Kathmandu also, last year, someone tossed the tap of the drinking water and then they beat badly. That's why there was a case which was registered in the police and also that case goes to the court also. So, we can say that there is a caste system deeply rooted in our society and the women are also in double triple burden. One from caste, one from gender and one from class. Economically also they are backward. And that's why within the Dalit community, women are more affected from that system. And within the Communist Party, there have been various streams of the Communist movement in Nepal. And recently there was a reunification process. So, within the party itself, what has been the process of dealing with this issue? What are the kind of struggles the Communist movements have? The parties have actually launched on these issues. This issue is very important to us. And we want to make a just society. That's why there is Uttapuri Jatiya Mukti Samaj. Now the name has slightly changed. Now we are unified now. We gave importance to this issue also. So, we talk more, discuss, debate and work on that issue. And within the party, there are two types of things we have. One is positive discrimination to make them in the party and give them the post. That's why if we do National Congress, we organize National Congress, we put the provision to the women, to the Dalit, to Madesi community, to Muslim community, someone, two years' leverage to go to the Central Committee. If someone go to the Central Committee, they have to fulfill 10 years, 12 years' experience. But Dalit community, women, Muslim and others can get two years or three years' leverage here. There is a positive discrimination in the policy. And also there is some rule of, rule type here. Code of conduct in our constitution, party constitution and party bilers also. In, when we organize the eight National Congress of CPN-UML, all the mass organization, the All Nepal Women's Association lead that moment, all the mass organization sign the code of conduct violence against women. And also there is, also included the violence against Dalit based on caste. And we also focus that there is a rule and there are rules and regulation within the party and we do not discriminate in the party. This time also we have directly elected parliamentarian from that community. Previous UML, there were so many candidate, three, maybe three of them won and then they became ministers too. That's why we do not discriminate. But that caste system is deeply rooted in the society. That's why we need to emphasize them, we need to give them training or encouragement within the party. And also if one party member work with that Dalit community person, there is no difference between other caste and Dalit. But if we go to the home back, maybe their parents, party members' parents are not so aware on that caste system and then they have the thinking of upper caste, so-called upper caste, so-called lower caste type thing deeply rooted in their mind and in the feudal and semi-feudal type in patriarchal society. That's why we suffer more sometimes. When we go to the underground and then go to the village, maybe sometimes our comrades hide the name. Sometimes they have to suffer in the villages. That's why we must say that there is caste, there is caste system, but it is going, decreasing day by day. And also there is a patriarchy and also decreasing day by day. We have the female president here. And we got Supreme Court chief justice also, female chief justice, female speaker of the constituent assembly also. But there are so many things we have to change our society, the caste system and also gender. I want to talk a bit more about what you mentioned earlier, about the triple burden faced by women and what are the struggles the women's movement is doing on this issue, especially on the issue of Dalit women and the issues they face. Sometimes when Dalit women married to so-called upper caste men and then they prohibited the ban to come to his home here. And then they have to stay out the home and then they don't have to access the property of the boy or girl. And then they suffer more. They have to find themselves the job. But there is a clause and there was a positive discriminatory policy if some Dalit women married to so-called upper caste Brahmin or Shatri family, they would get one lakh rupees here. But that was not so, we do not like that thing, but even there is a provision. And also Dalit community can take the loan for the some entrepreneurship if they do business or something up to 7 lakh they can have loan in the, they have to pay 5 percent less interest in their entrepreneurship. There are so many positive discriminatory clause for women, for Dalit and so many lower class poor people. There are so many positive discriminatory provisions in our policy also and in the law they can do something. But we have to, there are so many things, room to improve. And for the last question the Haliya system which is common in Nepal until very recently even now there is some stories of it being there. So it is abolished in 2008 indentured labor system and a lot of the people who were part of the system were also Dalit. So after the abolition and the package compensation packages that have been given to them what is the current situation right now? To abolish the Haliya system is a very good thinking. But in practice in some way there are some Haliyas up to now but now it has been changed in the wage labor. For the ox to ox there will be separate provision in the labor. There will be separate provision in many districts. It has been changed into wage labor. But now in some areas in backward society, remote area there is Haliya system also exist. But we abolish Haliya system but there was no alternative to shift them in another occupation. That's why they back to join to the previous land owners. That's why we have to analyze that either we need to aware them and we need to support them right to occupation or right to education. All these things we have to support them. Otherwise only one thing abolishment does not work here. Thank you very much. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching People's Dispatch.