 I'm going to pop into finance so have a great meeting everyone. Thank you. I just ended up with a whole bunch of extra options at the bottom of my screen here. Okay. Lindsay, are you ready? Yes, I'm good to go. Thank you. So seeing that we have a quorum of the community resources committee present, I am calling this September 1st, 2020 meeting of the community resources committee to order at 206 PM. Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, MGL chapter 30 a section 20 allows us to hold this meeting in place. So we're going to be being recorded for future broadcasts and any votes we take will be by roll call at this time. I'm going to confirm that each committee member can hear me and we can hear them so that when I call your name, please answer present or here. And then mute your mic after that. We're going to start with Shalini. Ascent. Mandy is present. Thank you. Thank you. Um, Steve. And Sarah. My brain is having problems computing up. I think I did it right now. At this time, our first item of business is general public comment. Public comments on matters within the jurisdiction of the CRC and residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. We will not engage in dialogue or comment on a matter that is raised during public comment at this time to participate in public comment. I believe we do not have anyone by phone. So at this time, if you'd like to make a public comment, please use the raise hand button. Um, and then I will recognize you in due course. If that is the case. I am not seeing any raised hands. So we will move on. This is our comprehensive housing policy discussion items. This is going to be what we spend the bulk of our meeting on. Um, probably no more than an hour and a half. We'll see if we go that long with it. Um, but that is my end time goal is around three 30, three 40. Um, if we're not done by then in terms of what we want to get accomplished today at the last meeting, I had asked that everyone bring to this meeting. Um, I think we're going to start with, um, I think we're going to start with. Their potential goals. The very beginnings of a document for comprehensive housing policy. Um, last meeting we discussed and looked at multiple. Potential sort of. Um, I guess. Templates or ideas for what a housing comprehensive housing policy might look like. And we looked at other things. Um, I think we're ready to discuss what their thoughts on potential goals. Are. Um, if no one is ready to, I can always start with mine, but, um, I thought I'd open it up to other people first. I guess I will start with mine. As everyone's not in their heads. So, um, I think we've received a, a thoughts from John Hornick on potential goals too. It is not in the packet yet. Um, I will likely put it in the packet, but I know it was emailed to everyone. So I didn't feel it necessary to be in the packet. At this point, um, but it will probably go in. So in thinking about goals, I obviously used a cheat sheet of. The other comprehensive housing policies we could because I'm not sure how extensive they should be or not. So I'm just going to go through some random things. Cause they all, from my point of view, they, they deal with different things and they address. Different types of goals. Um, the first set. Kind of addresses. Overarching goals that might not relate only to housing. Um, And then the next set is a little more specific. So one of my goals was potentially diversity. That we must ensure that there are housing options and Amherst for all current and prospective residents or prospective residents, future residents. Um, so the diversity of, I guess that would be housing options. Um, for comprehensive housing policy, I had a goal of achievability. That our housing policy, our goals and our strategies should be achievable in the short and long run. Um, that we should, another goal I kind of wrote out was a line and leverage existing funding resources to support affordable and market rate housing. Um, that would be the overarching goal is then I described it as using CPA and CDBG monies. To support projects that create, maintain and preserve both affordable and market rate workforce housing. Another potential goal was to reduce barriers to new supply and promote access to affordable and workforce homes and housing. So a description was to modify our existing bylaws, regulations and rules to reduce the barriers. Developers and investors facing creating, maintaining or preserving affordable and market rate housing. And then I got into sort of the copy of probably Minneapolis's goals. Um, which was the homelessness response. And I, I think you'll see it in John's document in Minneapolis. I just copied the. Description of that from Minneapolis. Um, and then homeowner support. So we support sustainable home ownership opportunities for low and moderate housing. And then I got into sort of the copy of probably Minneapolis's goals. And then we also have a lot of, a lot of affordable home ownership opportunities for low and moderate income housing to maintain and approve housing stability and expand access to home ownership for BIPOC, who have historically not had equal access to home ownership. Preservation of affordable housing should be a goal to support the development, creation and preservation of affordable housing of all types. A goal for senior housing, support the creation of affordable and appropriate senior housing in Amherst. Um, And then we also have, um, we also have, um, we also have a, um, a title of tenant supports. Um, recognize the value and contributions renters bring to communities. And invest in the production and preservation of rental housing. Seek to improve the living conditions in rental housing by ensuring that, um, they have supports for. There are supports for improvement of that. I guess. Renting stock. Housing stock. Um, and then we also have, um, we also have, um, we also have, um, you can see some of them are very, I guess. Broad to all housing categories. That was some of the first ones, diversity, achievability and aligning funding, um, and reducing barriers. And then the other ones were specific to specific types of housing. So we can start with a discussion on that or any other thoughts. You're looking for your hand, Sarah. Just. Yeah. Um, you're looking for specific types of housing. Um, you're looking for specific types of housing. Um, you're looking for specific types of housing policies. And I think that I found it easier to sort of make goals. And then what I feel like is when I'm trying to figure out how, to look for specifics of how we, we encourage these certain things. Then I started going down a complete rabbit hole. Um, and that's where I'm having a hard time is when it comes to trying to see that this is making goals that are. Yeah. I think I've seen a lot of things that different towns or cities have done. And I feel also somewhat confused sometimes about. Zoning and, um, how zoning can or cannot make something achievable. And that's what I'm sort of getting stuck in the mud is how do I get from point A to point B, or there's a million different great ideas. And I don't know how we would start to step by step, achieve them. Thanks, Sarah. Great. So, um, thank you, Mandy for, for getting us started because those were really good. Um, I will say, uh, especially in my current state, I feel like I've already forgotten half of what you said. Um, so it'd be, it'd be great if you could, uh, maybe add that to the packet. Um, so I could look at it. Um, now that it's been said publicly, it's no longer expression of opinion outside of a public meeting. Um, because I liked everything I heard. And I've also forgotten most of what I've heard. Um, I think it's like the way I saw this was, um, sort of, sort of broad, which I heard from you too. So I'm in parts supporting you and some of the things I'm going to say it might be repetitive, um, sort of broader, um, level goals, 30,000 foot goals. Um, and then sort of specific objectives underneath those is how I started to conceptualize this. And so the three broad goals I, I came up with it. I'd come up with it. I've actually put this out publicly. Um, was one, um, uh, a zoning bylaw that promotes housing production, housing affordability and housing diversity, which I think are all actually tied together. You have to produce housing, but it can't all be the same type of housing. And it has to meet a whole lot of different levels. Um, two was, uh, sort of economic and legal protections for renters. Um, to sort of reduce the vulnerability of renters, both, um, certainly economically, certainly from a health and safety perspective. And also, I think, uh, legally, a lot, a lot of renters often feel like they are, uh, they can't come forward and complain about things, stuff like that. Um, and the last thing was a municipal commitment to affordable housing, which gets back to what you were talking about use of CDBG and CPA funds. So the way I saw it was sort of, there were three different places that we can set goals around three categories. One is the zoning bylaw, which we know influences in some ways. Um, what is built, how it's built to is sort of regulatory. How do we ensure that renters feel safe and secure and aren't, um, maligned and marginalized and left vulnerable. And then how do we as a town use our town resources to encourage the production of, um, especially affordable housing? Those are the three categories I saw. I think actually a lot of what you said aligns with that. Um, and a lot of it would fall under. That's sort of where I had my starting point. Okay. Evan, can you say the first one again, the zoning bylaw one. A zoning bylaw that promotes housing, production, diversity and affordability. Thanks. Trying to make notes here. Uh, Shalini. Yeah, I think mommy, you covered all of the points and the ones I was going to add to that. Um, and, um, and to me, this, uh, the zoning is the how to. So once we have the goals, then we'll have the strategies, how to implement it. And those are, how do we make a zoning such that it allows for more density in certain areas. And, um, and I dug up a lot of really relevant articles, and what would encourage affordable housing and covers inclusionary zoning and the limitations of that. And when is it useful and when is it not useful? And, you know, it's a lot of things because there's a lot of focus on inclusionary zoning. So when we come to that discussion, we can talk about that, but I'll be happy to share that. But one thing that's coming up to me right now is, um, the climate action goal. Maybe is, is there a way to, um, um, We've in, does that come in here? Because we talked about the racial equity aspect in housing, looking at housing through that lens, but. Is there a, I think I had something here which said housing, location, construction and maintenance should improve environmental sustainability and resilience. So I wonder if that could be some sort of a goal. Um, I don't know. Um, it doesn't have to be on that. If you have something else to say. So I would say off the top of my head. Yeah, absolutely. We should try to find a way to put sustainability in. And again, I think that that's a tricky thing because. We also come into costs and. So it's something I do think we should weave in. And then we should try to find like how applicable, you know, So that that is also attractive and it's doable. The other thing I was going to say is that, um, We heard last night about food deserts and where I live in North Amherst, I think that right now we're a food desert. And so one of the things that I was thinking as well as for housing is how do we make an ecosystem for people if we talk about. Diversity and supporting all different walks of life and money. So, um, socio-economic, like how can we then take a look at what we have for services for people. And also when we're encouraging building, we can also, um, as a council, take a look at the surrounding area and then make things easier for, um, Services to come in that then support that community. So real grocery stores or farmers market or mobile markets or, um, you know, I don't know, mail banks, things like that should also be something we're thinking about. Steve, do you have any thoughts? Since we haven't heard from you. I'm just listening right now. Okay. That's fine. I just, I'm keeping track of who said stuff. Um, so I think I, you know, Evan says he doesn't remember where the goals I said I don't without looking at them either. So, um, But looking at what I mentioned and what others have mentioned. Um, I think what I'm hearing is we, we want to find a way to write a policy that we feel is achievable during some length of time. Um, please, if you don't, if you don't think that is something you've heard from a majority of folks, please tell me. Um, And we don't have to set a length of time right now. So, um, I think, um, It looks like we, we have ideas that zoning would need to be part of the discussion, but might not be. The top level goal, or as Evan would say, the 30,000 foot goal. Um, I think Evan had it in. As sort of a. I think, um, I think that what was mentioned to me as he said promotes housing, production, diversity, and affordability. Um, Shallony thought zoning is how you accomplish the goals. So her goal might be. Housing diversity afford, you know, a town that ensures housing product, you know, appropriate production diversity and affordability. goals would be underneath it. I think I had in one of my various varieties of it reduced barriers to new supply and promote access which is sort of one of the things underneath that would potentially be zoning as a way to do that. So everyone seems to be talking about zoning and the question would be whether zoning itself is the goal or whether it's the means to achieve a certain goal. Thoughts on that one? Shalini? To me it's definitely the means to achieve walkable goal to allow for more density and wait what are the other ones? Yeah but it seems more like means to the goals of having safe, healthy, walkable access to all the resources that Sarah was saying. So that's all about zoning to allow for that kind of housing to happen in the right places. So people who don't have transportation for example should be able to live there and have access to the basic resources and stuff. So that's a question of zoning and it's a how-to. What are your thoughts Evan? Yeah I can understand. I mean to some extent zoning is a vehicle to achieve these things. I think to me it could go either way. I mean to me it's we know we will always, my assumption is we will always have a zoning by-law and so this was a goal around what, my perception of it was a goal around what we want that zoning by-law to accomplish but I could see you reversing that and saying the goal is the accomplishment the zoning by-law is the means. So yeah to me it's a made of tomato. So I also see it the way that Shalini does is that it's so you would change zoning in order to achieve a goal and I also think that as far as community buy-in goes I think that when you just put zoning or zoning change as like the ultimate goal people start to get nervous and think that you're trying to pull something off on them or what could be possible and I think that if we have goals which I think we are diversity in housing, achievability using the you know CPA and CDBG monies, things like that I think that it would have more community buy-in if people knew exactly what our actual goal was and then see zoning as a way to achieve it and explain why the zoning changes help us achieve those goals but I could be wrong. So I think we're getting working our way towards being able to formulate how that top-level goal around zoning might look even though I'm still referring it to zoning but it's it the zoning would not be there. I think the top-level goal is the diversity in housing types, affordability and affordability. I think I've heard from everyone we need to somehow figure out affordability or the goal is to have affordability of housing at all income levels. Is that a good way to put it? And so one of you know and then I'm just looking at what other people have said the diversity of housing types, affordability of housing at all income levels we've got the workforce housing Shalini you mentioned that goes into I think the affordability level would you agree? The diversity. Diversity. Yeah, no? Yeah, what? I'm thinking it's we might be using the word diversity differently so I'm thinking of diversity of the actual housing stock so some apartments, some houses, some duplexes whereas I think you're thinking of diversity of the people who are living there. Yeah yeah yeah that's right. So we should probably clarify what we want. Yeah that's a good point. Because I'm completely thinking we don't want just production of one type of housing we want ADUs, apartments, duplexes, diversity of the housing stock. We also want that diverse housing stock to support a socioeconomic and racially diverse community. Yes that's a good point I didn't think of that and now would you say like a dull yeah and of course. So we want the housing in town to support a diversity of residents. I think the way it was worded somewhere else whether it's homeowner supports access to housing and home ownership for BIPOC who have historically had not had equal access to home ownership was one way it was. That was specific to home ownership but I think I don't know whether we would want to restrict it to that but we definitely want housing that supports the inclusion of all communities. Randomly writing here marginalized. Do we in terms of goals I had stuff about home ownership versus renters and all do we want to potentially have goals that separate out about home ownership issues versus rental issues I see we just lost Shalini or do we want to weave that into sort of the means to achieve a goal. So I would see those as two completely different challenges. I think first home first time buying a home is has certain economic challenges to it and I also think that still in America it's an important step for people although that is changing but I do think it should be addressed separately but because it has a different set of challenges to it. Other thoughts and here comes Shalini back in. Welcome back Shalini. Sorry about that. Just a quick nap. No just kidding. So what you missed was a question on whether we wanted to sort of have separate goals for home ownership type goals versus goals regarding rental housing stock and Sarah was thinking that since home ownership seems to still be an important sort of milestone in people's lives even though that seems to be changing and also presents its own difficulties in terms of the purchase of a home and then also the upkeep of a home than a rental stock does that maybe it would require two separate goals versus one goal that has multiple means to achieve that goal directed to home ownership versus rental and we were still discussing that one. Yes Shalini. Yeah I like that and also because that brings in the third category of homelessness too because that could be its own separate goals like as a town what is that position and goal and what are goals related to that. So it makes it really clean that you have three categories and it looks suspicious skeptical. I'm a very visual person so I'm like I'm having some trouble with this but because I guess in my thought was you have what I sort of refer to as the 30,000 foot goals and then you have specific actions under them but you might even have sort of sub goals or subcap and so like to me to say overarching housing diversity and affordability is sort of a broad okay like we can all agree on that but what does that actually look like in practice and I think part of that is affordable home ownership right which you know is something I'm interested in because I can't achieve that right now. I'm also thinking of you know I think it was Mandy or maybe Shalini mentioned sort of senior housing. Steve and I you know pre-pandemic we did a little event at Greenleaves and we heard over and over again you know where's the focus on senior housing where is the dedication to senior housing workforce housing. So to me it's almost like the broad goal is this well what does that actually look like to have housing diversity and affordability well it means have housing options for seniors it means how does it have a workforce it means having opportunities for affordable home ownership but also affordable rental opportunities and so to me it's all part of the same package and it's hard for me to separate out the homelessness one of the reasons I look skeptically I'm usually better at controlling my face but I'm too tired um but it is just because to some degree it's it's affordability to some degree it's access which is not necessarily always related to affordability and I guess I'm thinking specifically of the SRO but I guess that is that's not just about affordability that's also about is the support services there so it's it's hard but I guess to some extent that is still housing diversity I don't know if anything I just said made sense but I throw it out there I think what I heard from that is we're getting potentially closer to being able to draft a first round of goals that would then throw a bunch of subsets into that that don't have drafts of anything beyond that with you know affordable you know affordability of housing at all income levels would have subsets of dealing with the challenges of home ownership and you know getting that affordable for a whole bunch of people the challenges of affordable rentals um because we know and I know John's probably nodding his head in the attendees section of how unaffordable our rental housing stock is right now in town um and so the affordable ability you know and then senior housing is maybe not necessarily under the affordability one it might be under diversity of housing types um and so then if we're going with diversity of housing types or housing stock then you're looking at senior housing you're looking you're looking potentially at addressing homelessness through the diversity of housing types because they right now don't have access to housing you need to diversify what types of housing are available to give them access to housing that meets their needs which includes an SRO that might have supportive housing and stuff like that um so I think I'm getting through this conversation an idea of what what the broad goals would be um and then a draft document that might have a broad goal and then we could just pop in for the next discussion this here's things we need to deal with under that broad goal um and then flush them out each time and I guess what I'm hearing is um you know and some of these goals diversity of housing types housing to support inclusion of all communities we've got affordability of housing at all income levels um zoning the means to achieve those all of those would have zoning means underneath them um and all um I'm hearing municipal commitment to affordable housing is something would also be I think the 30 000 foot level if I'm hearing correctly um not a means to achieve these other ones um although obviously funding is there and so let me go through I guess what I'm hearing in terms of the broad goals diversity of housing types housing in town to support the inclusion of all communities especially those historically marginalized affordability of housing at all income levels achievability of the goals over some period of time um and then municipal commitment to affordable housing as another large one um I've heard about climate action um I don't know whether that's its own broad 30 000 foot level goal or whether that's a means to achieve other things it might end up being its own broad 30 000 foot goal Shalini yeah I can read something from here uh this website it is brookings.edu and they talk about goals for a good housing policy and um I can read the specific one related to housing location construction maintenance should improve environmental sustainability and resilience to mitigate environmental impacts public policy should encourage thoughtful placement of new housing and increase use of green building materials and technologies and housing are one of the primary sources of energy consumption requiring fuel transportation systems that move families between the homes and jobs consume large amounts of energy and housing location patterns especially proximity to water also for communities vulnerability to the impacts of climate change so I think by putting the goal there it makes us think about how we'll do it and then we'll figure out the how and but at least it's good to have that goal at least in front of us so we ask the right questions. Kevin yeah I actually like that I agree with Shalini and because my thought is um that allows us to really show how connected a lot of these things are which is something that I think we as a committee of it acknowledges importance since we put it in the questions we asked for for planning board because I'm thinking when we say um climate sustainability and housing my very first thought is um we're thinking about heating types right but then it also relates so closely to density and walkability and transit oriented development um that I think if we don't sort of weave into a policy um might get forgotten and some of the climate debate so I actually really like that as having it as a as a goal because it really is bigger than I think people just immediately go to like put solar panels on your house I was like no no no honey that's not at all. Exactly thank you. So I've added that is sort of a I guess that we're up to about six at this point I think. And do you have I think with sorry go go ahead Shalini. What Evan was saying about having communities or neighborhoods that are diverse in the sense of there are some low income there's some mixed you know some mixed income housing in neighborhoods rather than just having low income here and then the richer neighborhoods here and then it's Latino or Portuguese neighborhood here they try to integrate have more integrated communities. I'm adding it into the housing in town to support the inclusion of all communities type goal that does not have good wording right now but um yeah there's two aspects to that right one is that we are affordable to the diverse communities workforce lower income and BIPOC communities and so do we have it's diverse yeah to the diverse populations and then within a neighborhood we are facilitating mixed income housing. Yeah adding it to the notes looking at what other people have said we've got I think Evan the only one I'm not sure we've covered from you is the economic and legal protections to reduce vulnerability. You seem to indicate that that would be a broader level goal given how this conversation is going is that still a broader level goal for you or is it woven into the means to achieve something else if we can even have the mind to even think this through. So to me just where that comes from is sort of twofold one we know that our renters are some of our more vulnerable residents some of that is economic which obviously touches on housing affordability some of it is also I think the way in which renters are often maligned in this community um and and you know I have people all the time saying we're in a public meeting so but if it's people all the time saying you know I'm breaking this one little rule and so I feel nervous about coming forward to report you know a bad living condition or unsanitary conditions because I don't want to get in trouble so stuff like that and so to me it's it's not just economic vulnerability there's also sort of a security issue in there and where this actually came from I should say is um you you put I think it was um Minneapolis's right um thing and so I was looking into that and I then I also saw Minneapolis had passed sort of a tenants bill of rights in which they sort of vocally committed to like enforcing health and safety standards standard sanitary conditions and trying to basically reassure renters and that's sort of where that came from and so I don't necessarily know that it's covered in all of those so maybe it is a bigger goal I'm worried that we're 30 000 foot goals means you have very few and they're very broad and I feel like we're they're multiplying but just to give people an idea of the background of that statement. So I added a seventh um based on that right now it's tentative title is safe and secure housing it needs help but it would be the the tenant supports that I talked about from Minneapolis that you were just talking about um improving living conditions of rental housing fully participating community life protections so that people aren't afraid to report those living conditions because they might be violating other things um stuff like that uh rules so it might not be bylaws zoning bylaws or some of it could be the means could be changing zoning bylaws but it could also be implementing rules and regulations through inspectional services or something that would address some of that concern to um privacy actions relating to that and stuff so this is obviously a work in progress so we might start with seven or eight and as we work our way through we might come down and better integrate them into small lower numbers of 30 000 foot goals larger numbers of things underneath them um and all so anyone a shallony you have your hand up yes I think uh this is a really nice goal that links to that it's housing should not harm the health and safety of families or communities or we can put it in a more positive way which is housing that ensures health and safety and under that is policies such as minimum quality building standards are necessary to protect families and communities and um today's housing blah blah blah examples but like like drinking you know safe water publicly poorly designed also harm neighbors fire and you know fire hazards and so all of these could come under what Evan is talking about and that's actually the goal number one because when you're providing housing and that is a huge thing for people who are living in a substandard and they don't want to speak up against the landlords and again we could have more positive incentives for landlords maybe like reward the landlords who do take care of their buildings and their tenants and stuff rather than always in favor of carrot and not the stick but that would be the strategies how to implement that we can because we'll have goals under I mean we'll have more specific objectives and then strategies to implement and then measurables what are the key performance indicators to measure that these goals are being met and whatnot so it sounds like our outline would be goals and then objectives under the goals and strategies under that potential and measure measurables and measurables I think we're making some progress um would it be possible for you to do share screen I just I'm trying to I'm having trouble oh sure you're gonna get my notes um you mean instead of looking at us you try to look at the screen yeah yeah it's like yeah it's like yeah not even a moment's hesitation that's the best part about being sleep deprived everyone is so honest we don't have the energy to lie okay so I'm going to share let me I mean and and John I do see your hand up we will get to you momentarily so don't don't worry I'm not ignoring you um let me okay so we're gonna try this there we go so that's my notes right now the first set of outlines is the broad goals the second set is probably more of the um objectives and strategy a combination of objective strategies and no measurables right now because we haven't talked about any measurables right now um and this is just a short um is it my brief notes on what it would be without any care to how the wording is right now because that obviously has to go and be thought out a little bit better so Sarah unmute please fingers not working um I'm not sure right now it looks like it might go under so address climate action and sustainability of housing stock and I I sort of am sort of clinging to the word resiliency but having been someone who was poverty level for a really long time and also did not have a car um again it comes to my idea of I said ecosystem but it can be what supports people in housing or community or a neighborhood and so again thinking about I guess like where you're placing something and what supports are there um food is one healthcare is another I think that you know it might also so again I'm sleep deprived so this uh doesn't come out really clearly but I'm thinking about what you have available to you to help your survival so that could be something that's close by it could be something that you have public transit to so things that you need in order to survive that when you don't have a car is very difficult and that people might not be thinking of all right shalini yeah I would add jobs to that list right like I guess transportation that takes them to their job healthcare and food and then the other thing I was thinking of is like I'm also hearing from people how they're not able to read the forms and fill the forms right now with rental assistance so I'm reading this one goal somewhere it says information about housing transactions should be clear so that people and companies can make good decisions but basically what that's talking about is that people who really need the support and help are not able or are not able to access these resources because they're not so savvy and stuff so you know like affordable housing right like said not square so many people didn't even know that there are affordable houses available there for example so having website and information all of that's centralized so that people have easy access to this kind of information and it's bilingual and they have are able to make use of these resources so I think transparency and ease of access of information related to housing could be I don't know if that's a higher level goal or not but it's a high level goal here sorry I'm adding it into the safe and secure housing tenants support economic legal protection section it's it's obviously goal in progress but that seemed to be the best location for now without adding a new goal Sarah is your hand still up okay yep Sarah unmute please okay so just to kind of fit this in with what Shalini said and I'm I'm not sure if we do want to tackle this but in thinking of my own neighborhood and you know Shalini mentioned North Square one of the things that I feel very that I'd like to advocate is something like I'm just going to use your rupture lab just something that we would have zoning that would not discourage places businesses that could employ people who are working in that housing so you know we we wouldn't necessarily discourage certain types of businesses in these neighborhoods or close to these neighborhoods and that's huge and controversial so I'm going to put it out there but I don't know if people agree we should put it in I'm going to just type it in slightly like that as the climate action it's not the best spot for it but zoning that would promote sort of all of those mixed uses that you just discussed within the neighborhoods okay Shalini I was going to put my hand down because yeah I'm not sure also because yeah it's such an interconnected goal with mixed use mixed income housing because it tackled that easy access to places of work it tackles the climate action goal and raises people's income so it's economic vitality so making mixed income promoting at least certain zones right not all not not that every neighborhood it needs to be mixed income mixed use but definitely it will promoting certain zones where have more zones that allow for this mixed income mixed use yeah it seems our portion of the conversation is slightly winding down so we had no people who wanted to comment in general public comment before the meeting started so I figured they were waiting for specific sections of the agenda to make the comments more useful so we're going to go to public now for comments we've got John I'm going to work on unmuting you so you can speak can you hear me yes we can hear you now okay I have to say I'm a little disappointed in this discussion for a couple of reasons I sent you a three page or so a set of ideas about what might be included in goals for a general town housing policy and while I would say that 80 percent or so of what I included has already has been part of your discussion and yet I think those comments have been formally ignored another thing that I added which didn't have to do with goals for the town policy per se but also about process goals and who should be included in this discussion I also think has been completely ignored you know these come from the racial equity task force and basically as you all know they're asking for a greater participation in these kinds of processes which affect their membership their community and when we're talking about affordable housing nothing well I won't say nothing it's more important but I think that's among the things that are most important to that community so really what I'm disappointed about is that like most of town council you continue to be pretty insular rely on only discussing what you can generate off hand as you struggle with reinventing the wheel and uh you're not inviting other people not just me but other people formally into the conversation you might have something to say about it thank you john for your comment felony yeah I just want to acknowledge what John just said and in terms of involving community members and at what point I mean just because we haven't done it now doesn't mean we're not going to it's more we are looking at forming it hasn't yet formed a community yet a committee with uh uh to represent the diverse groups uh disenfranchised by park low income people so we are going to have a committee a committee that's going to do that and I think it's a question of I guess we don't have to wait for that committee to be formed to help us create the spaces to have these different because it's the same issue is going to come up with zoning changes as well like how do we get people informed and that's been a lifelong of the local government so far and hopefully it is going to change moving forward now um I think everyone is really motivated and we are looking at different models how to do that so it is going to happen john don't be disheartened um but yes it hasn't happened yet and maybe the question is do we not we don't have to wait for that committee to be formed and and then at what stage and how do we include people in these conversations so some of the comments that I think all of us are bringing in is based on what we are learning from uh you know the struggles that I shared about rental forms and whatnot so they're not made in a vacuum those are made based on us reaching out to people in the community and getting feedback because we haven't found those people coming directly to these meetings even if we advertise or even if we reach out so clearly we're not doing a good job of that but also the fact is that people are busy and have multiple jobs and are not going to come to these meetings so that's a longer process to figure out how to get but meanwhile this is where we are and um so yeah if anyone else wants to add to that mani I think you said my name but you're muted but I think I just read your lips sorry I forgot I'd muted myself so that my typing wasn't no wonder no wonder you weren't yes I did say your name um yeah so I actually do I mean so I think that we do at some point need to have a conversation about what our process is going to be to put this together even though I don't have a process all the time um but I do we don't usually respond to public comment but John so I'm going to um I wanted to say first of all you know I don't I burst out the idea that the recommendations were ignored I read them in full I think that all of the broad things that are in there have been incorporated into what we put on the table what hasn't been are the specifics and so my my vision of what we were doing here was again 30 000 foot goals what are the broad overarching goals of the policy we're creating before we get down to specifics and and I think the broad goals uh as far as priorities that are in the document that were sent to us by John are in what we just talked about what's not there yet are the specifics but we haven't gotten there yet as far as process I do think that we need to to think about our process I don't think it's insular for us to start a discussion on a council policy in the council committee that is charged with that I think that's actually an appropriate place for us to start that conversation to say where we've been tasked with this what are our goals what do we want to see this policy look like before we shop it out to other areas before we bring in a broader public input and in fact this is what the trust did with their original version is the trust came up on their committee with what they want and then they sent it to planning board and cpa and town council and and all of that to say okay this is sort of where we're at what do you all think which is I kind of thought is probably where we'd be going I fully expect that having a climate section means at some point we will send it to say ecac and say what what are you thinking about this in other places but I do think it's perfectly appropriate for this committee to be the starting discussion of that to shape what we're even looking for because inevitably it is a policy that is being crafted and adopted by the council thank you um any other comments at this time I think we now need to decide where we go with the discussion we just had um my thinking and potential proposal is to try and draft a more formal looking document that has some of what I threw on the screen on there maybe a little bit better worded or better thought out wording wise and then throws some of those more specifics into either the objective section or a strategy section or a measurable section but sort of start putting in an outline um and so where we could move stuff around um and start drafting and start coming to something for our meeting in I guess it would be about a month because we won't have time at the september 15th meeting to deal with this um but start doing that I don't think until we have a document we could send people I guess my opinion is until we have something in writing um we can't really send anything to people I would like to hear from the committee as to whether we want to formally invite either certain committees or committee members to our meetings when this comes up again to discuss this at this time or at future times what sort of process do we want to follow and when do we want to start seeking all of that input I guess is the next thing so thoughts on that Sarah so my thought is yes I agree that right now what we were just doing as a committee was spitballing and trying to come up with granted maybe our you know we don't have all the answers I don't think we think we have all the answers but to give some kind of a broad idea or structure and then I do think that we should I think that we we do ask for people's opinions so yeah something similar it doesn't have to be a hearing but something where we put out to certain uh to the community as a whole and then to certain committees or organizations to say here is our starting point and then we make it very clear this is our starting point we are welcoming ideas and constructive criticism and so of course we want input and we make it clear that we are looking for input so maybe yeah we get this together and we all look at it and say we agree and we think the graphics are good or the setup is good and then we shop it out oh go ahead Shalini oh no no man did you go ahead I was just going to ask clarifying from Sarah so would the shopping out or the asking for input come at the next meeting or after everyone after this whole committee has had a chance to see that document and sort of go with this is a good sort of really first draft of basic starting point things that now we're ready to put out or would that be done before the next meeting I think that we should meet next time and now that if if it's I think we should meet next time and all of us be thinking about you know maybe we all sort of fit things together ourselves so that we you should look at it I think we need time ourselves to look at it and to look at you know if we want to change something or change the direction and feel like we all have an understanding of where we're coming from and then I think we should open it up to other people because I don't think that it impedes the input from other people for us to just have a basic starting point I think a basic starting point helps people discuss things right so even if people take a look at and say this is garbage it still gives us a place to then build from so I think it's important we know where we think we're going first thank you for that clarification I saw some thumbs up from Evan and Steve on that Shalini's not in her head so I think that means our the next meeting we'll be discussing this is let me pull up my calendar I just wanted to alert you that John has his hand up I will get there momentarily I think our next meeting that we will be discussing this is October 6th pending our meeting scheduled discussion coming up after this and so I think the goal would be for me to have a draft of some sort of very starting point draft two weeks or a week before that to be able to put in a packet to send out to everyone we've discussed everything sort of going into it at this point so I don't think it represents unauthorized deliberation to send that out especially if it's published simultaneously everyone would come to that meeting with their thoughts on that we'd work on crafting that modifying it getting it to a better place at which point we would also be at the meeting coming in with who we want to formally invite or send it to for seeking comment and setting a date for the next one where it would be more of an open conversation type meeting than something else is does that sort of sound like a plan at this point now I have to write that all down where's the train going by I'm on yeah it's uh you know we live right near the road and then if it's going south it'll be near me soon it's a it's uh going towards belcher town so that's right it'll be near me in about a minute and a half we can you know I can see it from my house yeah I love you when amtrak came through we're both close but i'm on the wrong side of the tracks you're a renter that's why mm-hmm you live on the cool street sadly I'm a homeowner on the wrong side of the tracks I probably could have heard it up I pushed in the area can you hear the train from your house yeah yeah we absolutely can and on the farm depending on which train we can hear from which direction you can tell when we're going to get a really big rainstorm because of the how if you're out back you can hear different trains so yeah interesting so I see that John has put his hand down so I might have been a legacy of the first conversation um and the first comment because I couldn't figure out how to undo his hand so that might have just been a legacy of that um I think we've got a plan any other thoughts on that before we move on to the next item Shawnee um yeah I I'm just gonna say this is a random thoughts coming up right now so um I think there being different groups that are reaching out to us like let's say the defund group the racial equity task and none of them on their own represent the larger I would say even larger BIPOC community because I've reached out to four different um black friends I have and none of them were like well I was in reach I did not even know this is happening like the racial equity task force um the defund they knew more so because of the headlines but some of them didn't even know that because they don't read the newspaper or whatever but they were like I don't know if those people represent me so it's just that I think we have to build bridges with these multiple groups and not take any one group as the D group and um and yet many of these groups have connections to many other families so and the same thing is happening across like I've been reaching out in my district to different people and and finding like wow I can now you know that there's this this whole group of Latino families or there are these black family you know so these are and so I if we can find out key groups and in different districts then we start conversation with them and reach out to them to to then gather maybe information from and be an advocate for their community so to speak and eventually again I do hope we will use human-centered design again and I say that because I follow Strong Towns is a website for and it really has amazing articles and insightful articles how to engage and build neighborhoods strong neighborhoods and one of the things they say that a problem that happens in community meetings is that we ask residents what do you want and then we end up doing something totally different because the residents don't always have the answers when you're asking them for answers and solutions they're not the experts or they are going what we and so then there's this gap and people are never happy like you wasted their time and you never ended up doing what we asked for so what that article was suggesting is that and that's really what the human-centered design is that you ask people about their lived experiences and you know where did they go and shop what bus or what transportation do they take to go to work to shop and so you get gathered data about how people are living their lives and then from that the people the policy makers like the town manager actually not even policy the town manager and so for they will be figuring out okay what is what are the challenges and how do we provide the solutions for that so it's really important the kind of questions we ask from people and not like what they want because it's not necessarily that may not be the right solution but we can ask them what are your challenges with respect to housing and renting and and food and you know transportation and all of those thank you see no other hands we're going to move on to our next agenda item which is fall 2020 meeting times um number one i want to point out that we are having a meeting on september 15th when i went to my calendar i'm surprised to see that i didn't have a meeting my calendar for september 15th um but we have one for september 15th we will not have one i don't know whether this was just me putting in the wrong date or not i had one listed for september 22nd we will not have one september 22nd we will have one september 15th instead um i think that was me not checking the calendar and knowing when dav asked me if the 15th was okay for christine breaststroke and rob to come knowing it was two weeks after this meeting and so we must be having a meeting um without actually checking to see if we'd schedule a meeting that day but we will not have one two weeks in a row so we will not do one on the 22nd but we will do one on the 15th um beyond that we had when we set this two to four time indicated that we would revisit it come the fall because i know sarah and i in particular were unsure whether this is a time that was good for us at all um and and i know sarah had said she can work at it and make it through the summer and i knew my my family schedule i was not sure whether two to four would be accommodatable come fall um so i don't know so i'm going to actually just pull people because the easiest thing to do is keep it at this time if it's working for everyone but i'm going to pull people now to see if two to four on tuesdays still works for people or whether they would like to find another time so we will start with shallony on that one yes this style works okay um for me given where school is right now and family life is right now two to four will work there is a possibility that i will not ever be able to go exactly past four depending on what my kids schedule ends up being that's the case if the meeting runs late shallony as vice chair would get to take over the meeting starting at four when i have to leave it is also i'm going to finish the meeting later than four um for everyone can i make everyone meditate and that since i'm vice chair then rest of the time we're going to just sit and learn how to train that um that to evan uh yes i can do tuesdays two to four and i think the fact that someone might have to leave exactly at four is an incentive to keep that time yeah that's do you that works for me and sarah yeah and i'm the same boat as you with kids and getting supper on the table well for me it's getting supper on the table five and then helping with homework and whatnot i don't know that i would be able to go much over four either so more incentive there we go to be just right on it so my next question is it sounds like we're all okay keeping two to four my next question is the last couple of meetings have been directly after a council meeting that has gone extremely late on a monday night and so we have all been i'm not sure if we've all been at our best tuesday even by two p.m so i would like to know whether we would like to i think the rest of the meeting tentative schedule when i threw it in was to have them after the day after every council meeting um it currently conflicts with the finance committee meeting who also meets the day after every council meeting they start at 230 would we like to think about or move them to the week that there are not council meetings as long as those are not holidays i would obviously check i know getting into september october might have a couple of holidays that run into it and sometimes there's some november holidays that are on tuesdays but would we prefer to have them on the week that is not a council meeting if possible i am seeing some nodding of heads there i would fully admit that today is tough but yeah today's tough there's a lot of other things going on but i think that was our latest ever last time yeah might have been i think it might have been um i will certainly i think look to avoid um election day in november too i didn't even realize when i set this one i was not paying attention that this was also an election day or i probably would have avoided it anyway um so what i will do is go through the schedule again mark which ones might change and see if we can move as many as possible to the week after a council meeting instead of the week of a council meeting but keeping two to four p.m and we'll get a schedule out to people um probably before the next meeting so that we can look it over but for a formal vote because it is changing of a schedule so that we can just formally adopt the modified schedule for afina to be able to put online this is through december through the end of the year i assume through december if anyone wants me to set that through longer than december um we reorganize in january as a council that probably includes the reorganization of committees i don't know who will be president and whether that would change the makeup of committees we could still attempt to set the time so that they're in our calendar in case the committee does not change um in membership if people would like i could put that january february and maybe march on people are interested we don't have council meeting schedule yet for that set of months yet either in some ways i wish we could set a for all of our committees have a set date like the planning board does and then you can sort of make a decision on what committee you want to be on based on when they need but yeah i'm not sure we'll ever get there would people like to see schedule through at least march of next year i think scheduled through january would be safe because that takes us through the reorg if there is a reorg and then also those of us that have an act to that teach um i think that you master started at the end of january this year although when we're not sure about that are we who knows yeah by start i mean yeah i didn't think we'd be starting in august and just a couple months ago so end of january would seem safe yeah i agree i will put out a schedule through the end of january um since we likely even at a reorganization wouldn't have new committee assignments till then anyway um so i will do that any other thoughts on schedule none that takes us two minutes um so athena and i were talking before this i actually have copies of the august 26 minutes that she sent me like friday and i ignored them because i didn't think i'd put them on this agenda and i didn't want to have to make her change the agenda and also post everything and go through all of that and so we do not are not ready to adopt minutes from the two august 26 meetings because of my issue not because we don't have them i let them sit in my inbox without paying attention to what i've actually put on the agenda um to get them to you guys all in time so we will do them at the next meeting we have the august 18th minutes um in person in ready to adopt at this time um so is there any requested changes to them i am not seeing any is there then a i guess i will then make a motion to where's a motion to approve the august 18 2020 minutes as presented is there a second steve seconds um we roll call um we're up to me i guess um i am a yes that takes us to evan yes Steve yes Sarah hi felony yes that is a five zero they are adopted thank you any announcements from anyone my only announcement is september 15 uh we are having chris breastrup and uh rob mora here to present the planning department's ideas on zoning revision priorities the planning board has voted is my understanding or agreed upon their top 10 list that memo will be coming to me soon i will distribute it to the whole not not just you guys but the whole council when i do get it so that everyone has that and it will end up in the packet um enough counselors have indicated desire to be there that it will be called as a full council meeting um and you guys as members of crc have no need to send me your own priorities we will be having that discussion as a group um i have asked for counselors to send me theirs i have gotten a few i am keeping track of that uh closer to the meeting i will post that list as an anonymous priorities list from counselors i expect to get more in the next week or so if not i'll post what i have um but but hopefully we will be able to start a conversation on that at that point shallony so are we are we sending ours to you and can you know you don't need to i mean if you want to and if you want it included in that then that is fine um uh it is always possible i will be posting anything i receive as an anonymous here's what i received from counselors without the attribution to which counselors asked for what um but you guys are part of the committee so when these things go out i always just assume the committee members will bring their own lists to the meeting um and the request is really for those that can't be part of the meeting but now that it's a full council meeting we may not actually get more than what we've already gotten because people will be at the meeting to be able to talk about their own priorities as everyone will be able to participate um but if you want to feel free to but it's not necessary um i think that's my only announcement i think i am thinking about to go to next agenda preview next agenda is zoning the agenda after will be a minimum of housing we'll see what else needs to be on there if anything um i am thinking about on that agenda for the october meeting of potentially putting a post mortem down of the process we just went through for planning board appointments um it can't be next meeting it was not on this agenda to talk about whether there's any changes to the process that we adopted we might want or just to talk about how things went um and see i think that's how i couldn't there's a lot more how things went what on the planning board appointment process that we've adopted and we used for the first time just to be able to while it's fresh in our minds are there any changes to the process we might want to explore um before we face other vacancies that we need to use the process again for so post mortem on sort of that whole process um is a thought for the october sixth meeting i know it will have been a full month from the time we did the process but given our agenda's plans it's as about as early as i can put it um if people do not want to do that let me know um but i think it would be a good idea i don't have any other agenda items people would like to see in the next couple agendas steve yeah so um on the topic you had just mentioned that was a rough night i think we could all agree that was a rough rough night yesterday but i'm really proud to be part of this group so i think we had differences of opinion amongst ourselves and amongst the town council but i thought that everyone who spoke all 13 of us um spoke from our hearts and from our beliefs and i just want to say that i think a lot of us felt really that it was kind of rough and tumble not not not not um well i don't i'm not sure what the outcome was that we were expecting but that i'm proud to be part of this particular group and the process that we went through and i think we can improve on that for sure and i look forward to the discussion so even though we don't necessarily share the value on that particular outcome i think that we're all did a great job in articulating what we do anything else on next agendas or agenda item sarah since steve brought this up and i sort of talked about this a little bit before we went live um because of being on oca and you know how committees work i just want to say that i'm very sensitive you know to how i react in a meeting as a minority and um i hope that there was nothing that i did that felt disrespectful to this committee and if we want to talk about like how minor because i will just tell you i don't necessarily feel like a minority report when when we're reporting out to council if i'm in the minority or even if anybody i i feel like the minor report belongs you know you're written in the report i don't necessarily i don't i myself did not feel like it needs the same amount of time as a majority report um when we're saying something out to the council and also i feel like when it comes to appointments um that can kind of torpedo the good work of a committee and so i was trying to be really sensitive to that um and i really appreciated shallony you know saying hey take a deep breath and let's not all assume you know where someone is coming from and um my comment was coming from process which you know coming from oca i think is the most important thing so i just want to let people know that that's where i was coming from and um i'm open to any discussion that this committee wants to have about um how minority report would be put out or ways that would be more constructive um instead of destructive thank you anything else before we move on to items not anticipated none i do not have any items not anticipated does anyone else not seen any therefore we are going to end early thank you i just want to end early so i don't want to say more but thank you sarah for um and yes you were it felt very heartfelt and it it comes through that you genuinely care and it's not bringing other people down and making assumptions so that's very clear and i think that's i feel good about a committee here yes with that if there's nothing else i will adjourn this meeting at three twenty eight p.m. enjoy the beautiful day outside people yes enjoy it thank you thank you thank you bye bye thank you lindsay