 to Shebaugin County government working for you. During our TV show, which we do monthly, we are trying to bring information about the different county departments and the services that they provide to the citizens of Shebaugin County. Today we have with us Roger Lanning, our highway commissioner. We're going to focus on the highway department this year. We thought with the winter weather coming, the snow and the ice and the salt and all these things and the concern that people have about this time of year that we would have you come in, Roger, and talk a little bit about the work that the highway department does during the winter months. But first, why don't you give us a little bit of background about yourself and your position of highway commissioner. Okay. Thank you, Dan. I started with Shebaugin County in 1979 as a county surveyor and highway engineer. And then January 1st of 1987, I was elected to the highway commissioner position. The highway commissioner position is elected by the county board every four years. It was changed, it used to be two years and now it's changed to four years and a number of years ago. And what are the responsibilities not only of yourself but also of the department? What are the areas that you cover? Okay. Basically, the role of the highway department is to maintain the county road system, be it pavement maintenance, construction, snow plowing, the marking and signing of the system, litter pickup, everything related to the county road system. And I guess I wanted to define that a little bit because we do work on all of the roadways in the county. I wanted to just touch on the county roads. The county roads themselves are the ones with the letters and then the ones with the names are the local roads, the township roads or the village roads. And then of course the state and interstate highways have the letters. So I just wanted to clear up there. The county roads are the ones with the letters and those are the ones that we're by statute primarily responsible for. So if you live on A or W or else you're living on a county road. If you live on Vorpal Road, you're living on a town road. On a town road, yes, that's correct. And then we have the state, the I-43 system that comes through and state highway, 23, 28. I-43 is an interstate of course, yes. Okay, and how many employees do you have to take care of these roads? Well, we have 120 total employees. And they're divided up during the winter months between six district sheds around the county. For example, there's one in Cascade and Adele, Plymouth, Howard's Grove and one long I-43. And during the winter months now that we're getting into there's about 15 employees that work out of each of those district sheds. And each shed maintains for the snow plowing part of it about 190 miles. And then of course we have a repair shop facility, the vehicle repair on 23rd Street here in Sheboygan and that's where the administration buildings are. And during the summer months and construction season then the employees go out onto the different construction crews and we have about eight different construction related crews that they work. So we basically have two seasons, construction and winter and they always talk about orange barrels. We have the orange barrel season and the snow plowing season. So we change as the seasons change. You mentioned that each of the different sheds is responsible for a section or a number of miles in the county. How many total miles do we have in Sheboygan County? How does that compare with other counties? And I believe you are responsible for the bridge work in the county and maybe just how many bridges we have and how often you need to work on those. Total miles in the county, there's 1500 miles which includes state, county, village, town. And we maintain 77% of those are about 1150 miles. The 120 person staff maintains that many of the miles. And as far as the bridges are concerned, there's 237 bridges in the county that we maintain and inspect and do work for on each structure. And along with the roadways and the bridges, what are some of the other functions that you provide and services that you provide to the citizens of Sheboygan County? Some of the other, as I related before, some of the other construction crews, we have a crushing crew that crushes the gravel, a black top crew that produces and lays the black top. We have a grading construction crew that does all of the earth's work and the grading on the various roadways. And then the other sub-crues be that we have a concrete crew that does flat work and curb and gutter. And we'd mentioned before the bridges, what we do on the bridge repair and the bridge inspection. And of course we have our signing crews and our center line and pavement marking crews. So it's kind of the full gamut from the start with the engineering all the way through the construction phase that we are involved in each phase of roadway work. Do you, you talk about county roads and the local township roads, do you work for the townships on any of their projects or do they get somebody else? Well we, there's different arrangements with the different townships and municipalities as I was alluding to where we did 77% of the mileage. That includes the work for the townships on a time of materials basis for snow plowing. And during the summer on construction related work with the black topping or with steel coating on the different roads. And then on the state highways, the state of Wisconsin is unique in the nation that the counties perform all of the maintenance for the state highway department. There's some variation of that theme in different states but Wisconsin is still unique whereas the counties maintain the state and interstate highways. The only equipment the state DOT has is maybe a sign crew and then they do some of their own marking. So like I mentioned, it's unique that all the counties do the work for the state on a contractual basis. And then with the townships, we do it on a, like I said, time of material or contractual basis for both winter and summer. Now out of the 15 townships, we maintain about 13 of the townships. But then as when you get. As far as snow plowing. Snow plowing and other forms of construction or routine maintenance in that regard. In regards to the total mileage which we're alluding to the, we have 452 miles of county trunk. Now that ranks fifth out of the state as far as the number of county road miles in the fifth most in the state. So we have a rather large county road system that we maintain with the 120 employees. And of course I believe we're 36th in size in the state of Wisconsin. And acreage. And acreage and square miles. But we have a lot of roads. We have a lot of roads. That's right, that's right. You're a mean one. Mr. Grinch, last night I was sitting with my kids on the couch watching that program. It's been a favorite of mine for years and it made me think winter's around the corner. Holiday specials are on. We're a little over a month away from Christmas and clearly people really rely on your department for keeping our roads clear of the snow and ice removal. Tell us a little bit about how the department handles salting and snow removal. Well, as far as like during the months we're getting into now. As far as, let's go with the beyond regular work shift. The after 330 part of it. We work with the sheriff's department on after hours. The squads around the road and we always have a couple people on call and we coordinate with the sheriff's department as far as the road conditions and whether or not we should be calling people in for emergency situations. And then during the, from December to April we also try and maintain 24 hour service on the main roads. The state likes to have as best as we can 24 hour service on the main traveled roads. And primarily to react more instantaneously to any emergencies that occur, be it the icing up of the bridge decks or just with the temperature variations, how quickly things can freeze up on the roadways. So we have a coordinated effort with our staff and the sheriff's department staff as far as after hours. But now on the, as far as there are regular shifts. Now we have one shift basically, seven to 330. And that's why it becomes difficult in some of the larger storms where the longer duration trying to juggle enough men and have enough men to provide that service that's needed for out on the roadways. So specifically how many snow plows do you have operating at any one time? And furthermore, if you have a one to two inch snow depth out there, what's that cost? What's it take to get that moved off the roadways? On a smaller occurrence, the one to three or one to two inch or where it's basically just a salting operation and you're not plowing. For example, if you're just salting, you're making just one pass and laying salt out and make a brine and then the traffic basically melts off to small accumulation. And that generally, we have 37 units, trucks that maintain that 1,150 miles and go out and do that. And just a salting occurrence, if it, as the lights know and it quits when you do it and go out and do it, it's about say six hours and on an average it'd be about $15,000 for each one of those occurrences. So as time goes on or the wind shifts or you get more accumulation, it becomes multiples of that hour, that six hours and the $15,000. So 37 units and you mentioned earlier that the crew primarily works from seven to 330. Now, however, when the snow is blowing and they need to get out there, they work throughout the night, don't they? We try and always work in the peak, the peak traffic times, the going to work time and the coming home. And you have to remember that you can't keep the guys out there too many hours with the rules and regulations. We try not keep them out there beyond 12 to say 15 hours but try and rotate the guys in. But sometimes that becomes difficult with manning each of the plows on a 24 hour basis. So in the say after nine o'clock period from nine until four or nine until three in the morning, we don't have that size of workforce out there mainly because you don't have the traffic. It's a combination of not having the traffic and not having the manpower to have everybody out there in the same manner that you do during the heavy traffic hours during the day. So what are some of the more common concerns you hear from your staff regarding snow removal? Well, basically the things I hear from the staff is a traffic biome. It's like no one can really realize how difficult it is on I-43 with the amount of traffic or 23. The main travel roads with the traffic and the speeds out there. It's difficult when, and it's dangerous out there with the truck, with the snow blowing up behind the truck and on the two lanes when you're approaching a truck. People don't realize the visibility problems that are out there and with the conditions that if they would have to slow in a hurry, you can't do it. So what concerns the guys is the volume of traffic and the speed at which people are traveling. Now, do you have both a salt and sand mix or exclusively salt, sand? What type of components do you put out there? Primarily now with the amount of vehicles on the road and the speeds, we've primarily gone to salt and we use liquid calcium chloride as an additive to the salt or magnesium chloride. We use some of that now. And that helps the salt work at lower temperatures. And salt will go farther or last longer than what sand will. Sand is basically meant to be a attraction type thing and not necessarily a snow melt. So the salt with the cost of the salt and the long lasting of it is more economical. So you mentioned earlier that it's about $15,000 to remove a one, two inch snow removal or get the salt down. What about annually? What's your budget annually for this? Historically, it's been around up to $950 and a million dollars normally. On an average winter, of course, with our budgets as well as the local units of government, there's only so many dollars in the annual operating budget. And if you spend more during the winter months, it's less money that's available for the actual construction and maintenance during the summer months. So we at the Highway Department, maintaining the county roads have the same difficulties that the local units of government have as far as budgets are concerned. Now I'm sure depending on how heavy the snowfall is or whether we're dealing with ice or what have you, you get some calls from time to time. If someone has a concern or a complaint, who do they call? Well, depending on the area of the county where they're calling in from, we like to have the folks call the area district sheds that I had alluded to previously because that's where the people are working out of in that area and they can check up on it probably quicker and get the facts a little quicker. So if it happens in a specific area, if it happens, if there's a general complaint, the people call in to the main office, our administration offices. And in the off hours, people correspond always with the sheriff's department in that coordinated effort. And I imagine from time to time you hear from people who it isn't a county responsibility, it may be a city responsibility depending on the jurisdictions. That's right, that's right. And we do have that occur. Some people don't realize that if it's on a village or city jurisdiction or whether it's, that's why I'd mentioned it's confusing because you see the county trucks on so many of the state, town, local and county roads, you're right, it does add to some confusion sometimes. So do you have any recommendations for people out there and how they can help your crews get that snow removed as quickly and safely as possible? One of the most difficult things we deal with and it is when we're plowing, for example, when we stop at a stop sign and we have to clean up an intersection, people don't realize that you have to back up and you can't get the whole intersection in one swipe, you have to back up and do it a couple different times depending on the size of the intersection. And people, we always have a tendency to pull up right behind or tight behind a vehicle. And so we have trouble with that sometimes where the guys can't see in their side mirrors that there's a vehicle right behind them. So I guess I would ask that people, stay back from the back of the snow plow so that the guys can see them in the back and be able to perform their duties. And the other thing I mentioned is the speed as the snow comes off the plow, you always have that plume of blowing snow and if you get too close to the back of the plow, it's difficult, especially passing a snow plow, you really have to take your time. So the intersections and following closely behind the plows are two of the key concerns. Yes, yes, absolutely. Before we get away from snow, I gotta clear up a couple of things here. When I get up in the morning, I want to be able to go to work or at least most people do. Some people think this is great, I can stay home in a day areas, especially the kids in school. But you gotta clean the roads for us to go to work. How do these guys that are running these plows get to work? Who's cleaning the roads? Nobody's cleaning the roads, they're cleaning the roads. We have a very dedicated staff. And those guys know if there's gonna be a snowfall, they do a great job of getting to work. And I guess the best way to answer that is that we try and be there before it gets to such a condition that they can't get there. So you've never had a problem where you've got the plows ready to go and the guys are sitting home snowed in. In years past, when we've had the really bad winters and spent quite a while, we've had an occasion or two where the guy couldn't get there and you had to somehow get to him. But that hasn't happened, I don't think in the last 25 years. So for those that have moved to Sheboygan County in the last few years, they haven't seen anything yet. Because we haven't gotten that bad snowfall in recent years. I would say the last bad winter and you will remember it as good as anyone is probably 1979, 1980. I'm not looking forward to any of those again. Two and 10 yellows? The other thing I need to clear up is, and I didn't do this when we started, but if somebody has just joined this show in the last few minutes, the person who was doing the singing was the administrative coordinator of Sheboygan County, Adam Payne. I didn't make it clear when we started this show who the two hosts of the show were. We introduced Roger, but I'm the chairman, Dan Lemahue, and Adam Payne, the coordinator. I just wanted to make that clear so that all these talent scouts that are going out now looking for new people, for the community players in Sheboygan that they'll know who to call for the singing. Not me, they should call you. Believe me, it wasn't necessary, Mr. Chairman. Okay, I just wanted to make that clear. Thank you. One of the things, again, getting away from a snow removal and the winter part of the operation, one of the things we see in county government is that we're providing services to the community that the state is telling us to do. And the state decides what services need to be provided and the counties provide the services. And we get a little uptight once in a while with the mandates and regulations that the state is putting on counties. And some of the, most of the services that you provide seem pretty obvious. You're keeping the roadways in good condition for us. You're cleaning the snow off so we can get around in the winter. But does your department, does the Highway Department get involved in this area, too, where the state is mandating and regulating and forcing you to do things? Well, sure, we'd fall under the same rules that all of your general contractors fall under, be it, you know, you have laws coming from the federal level, the EPA, environmental protection agency, and it funnels down to the state and then the state has to implement the laws. So, you know, it goes from federal to state to local. And, you know, yeah, there's been a number of mandates that come down, one that I know that the nationally they're dealing with is like the EPA and the stormwater discharge runoff program, where all construction site and construction related work, you have to come up with a stormwater management plan and create and implement measures to limit the runoff and control the runoff. That's an example. Another one would be, for example, the mining reclamation bill, which was passed a few years ago, that is now being implemented and that's where all the mining operators, which includes the county, as we proceed forward in the various gravel pits and mining operations that you have to reclaim the areas which were mined and that's, there's nothing wrong with some of these regulations. So our gravel pit is considered a mine? Yes, open pit. And as these regulations come down and these mandates and laws, what, obviously, is there some costs involved? Well, yes, absolutely. Just for the coordination and the implementation, it all takes additional time and monies to take care of these things and yet there's no money associated with it and it's the same thing in healthcare. We all have to deal with the additional regulations. Lastly, let's talk a little bit about some of the projects. You talk about your black top crew and your gravel crew and the different crews you have, the bridge crews. Do you identify the projects in advance or do you plan out years in advance and what are some of the projects that you'll be working on the next year or two? I guess let me touch on first some of the state projects, which most of the people drive on, the main travel roads. The county does not get directly involved in them but of course, because they affect the county, we have to be involved a little bit. Some of the major ones coming up, for example, are State Highway 23, which people have read about in the paper. The continuation of the four lanes on the north side of Plymouth going westerly for up to County Road P. That's on the books for 2003. The state is in the design stage right now on that and that'll extend the four lane, called the bypass of the city of Plymouth. That's coming in 2003. And ultimately, when the next 10 or 12 years, State Highway 23 to Fond du Lac is in the long range plan of the state DOT for once again, continuation of the four lane from Plymouth to Fond du Lac. That's one of the, that's a major program. But coming up right soon, it's the State Highway 57 from the South County line to Waldo in 2001 and 2002. And even into 2003, that's gonna be a project to reconstruct the northbound lanes. If you drive in Ozaki County, you can see that they're reconstructing that now from I-43 up to Random Lane. So that's a reconstruction of the northbound lanes. There's a major project on the state coming up in the next couple of years. How far north will that go then from the South County line? Up to Waldo. Up to Waldo. So that's, those are two big projects. And then a couple of the not complete reconstruct but upgrading our State Highway 28 from Sheboygan Falls to Waldo. That's coming up next year, 2001. And then ultimately from Waldo to the, through Batavia to the South County line is in the long range also for the state. And State Highway 32 from Cedar Grove to Sheboygan Falls is also scheduled for upgrading resurfacing in 2002. Some of the county roads will be in your area, Dan, the next couple of years. County road. I'm already making a mess in my area. We have a joint project with the village of Woosburg on the county road AA from the village limits to I-43. That's a joint project with the village that will be occurring next year, early next year hopefully. And then also next year County Road AA from Woosburg to V that's a distance of three miles. That will also be graded next year. And in the future then 2002, 2003, we're planned out for about five to six years. It takes that long for planned development and acquisition of right away and things like that. But then also County Road V from I-43 to 32. That's a distance of about three miles and also a continuation of AA where we leave off at V going northeasterly to Wheaton Creek. That's those two projects are scheduled for 2002. As some of the projects, and I really didn't think about this until you were describing some of the roads that you're gonna be working on, but as some of these projects on the outskirts of Sheboygan like on 28th and Taylor Drive, that intersection by I-43 where the stores are going in there and does the county get involved with any of the infrastructure there at all? No, no those that's all related to the state DOT where the developer has worked with the Department of Transportation for driveway access, if a de-acceleration or acceleration lanes at their driveways and whatnot because it's primarily involved with the ramps and the frontage road, that coordination was primarily handled between the developer and the state DOT. We have a cursory review, be it with access and things like that and width of driveways, but primarily in that particular case it's dealt with through the state Department of Transportation. Is there going to be any, even though it's not your project, are you aware of any additional lanes or anything that are going into that area? Well, at the entrances, for example on another frontage road, the west frontage road, there will be what we call de-acceleration lanes where traffic can get off of the main traveled portion of the road in order to enter and also come onto the main road. Seems like there's gonna be a highly traveled intersection and there's gonna be a lot of traffic through there. Yeah, it'll definitely take coordination with the signals that are at the ramps and it's kind of a work in progress. Well, thank you, Roger. I've learned some things and I thought I knew all this when we were coming in so I learned some things today so I really appreciate you coming in and I wish you well in the next few months during the winter season that you don't get a lot of calls and complaints that the snow is all handled properly and everything goes well and including the safety of the crews and that's always a concern is that they're out there in the wind and snow and safety is a concern. So I look forward to winter. I like to get out in the snow but sometimes it's not always so much fun on the roads. So we thank you for the work you do. Next month, what we'd like to do is again, this theme of the winter months coming and the cold weather. Adam and I have talked about having somewhere from the Health and Human Services Department with us and talking about the services that are available to all the residents of Sheboygan County and including the elderly and those that are shut in and the services that are available during the winter months. So we hope to continue this theme of the winter months in December and some of the services that are available. So again, to those that are viewing our show we're happy you're watching we're happy you're getting informed and we welcome you back next month when we talk again about Sheboygan government working for you. Thank you.