 My name is Michelle Ashira. Welcome to Entrepreneurship Tuesday. Remember, you can follow us across all of social media platforms. That is at Y2-5-4-Channel. At Michelle Ashira is where you can equally find a mess. So our conversation today starts off from we celebrated the menstrual hygiene day just a couple of few days ago, on 28th of May, that it is. And the conversation is important to still propel it in order to just break the silence when it comes to stigma. So I would like to inform you that this conversation will equally be in need of involving men. And I know it will be too much of information, TMI, regardless it's an important conversation. So to help us discuss the importance of menstrual hygiene management in the face of COVID-19 right now. So I'm joined by Dr. Loreen Jeb Corir, MHM champion. She'll be telling us more about that and the health policy consultant. Thank you very much for creating time for us. Thank you for having me. All right. So before we even start off, I'd like to find out about the MHM championship. All right. MHM stands for menstrual hygiene management. And I believe I'm a champion because I've been part of this conversation since they started in Kenya, which was about 2016. That is when I started being part of the MHM conversation, trying to pass the right information out, trying to talk to ladies. And yeah, I consider myself a champion. All right. So prior to this interview, we had a clip running on a very much educated clip. So I'd like us to start from our basic points. Just for someone who doesn't know what menstruation is, then we can pick it up from there. All right. I guess this is where we break the silence on menstrual hygiene management matters. Menstrual hygiene management, we can start by defining the terms. The term mensus is a flow of blood when the endometrious sheds off periodically. I do not say monthly because girls experience this between 21 to 35 days. If it's 21, that's not a month. So I call it periodic shedding off of the endometrious. And there's a lot of taboos and stigmatization that is associated with menstrual hygiene management. And women are just not comfortable to go through this. That is why when we talk about menstrual hygiene management, we want everybody to be part of the conversation so that we break the silence and ensure that women can access the right material during this period. Okay. We just celebrated the menstrual hygiene day a few days ago to take the break. To take the break. What is the theme for this year? Well, we know that currently we're undergoing a pandemic with COVID-19. And periods do not stop during pandemic. So the topic for this year was, it's our time for action. It's our time to put in action and ensure that all ladies can access wash services. Wash is water sanitation and hygiene services as well as the needed sanitary materials. All right. So there's a documentary that was released a couple of three days ago. Showcase in Tana River County. We saw girls just sitting on holes, digging holes. Oh, that's very sad. Absolutely. So due to lack of sanitary towels and then there's a lot of stigma around it that during this particular time they're not supposed to be probably in the kitchen or even being involved in daily activities back at home or even actually just being face to face. Those are some of the stories that we're talking about. So what are you guys doing in terms of breaking the cultural beliefs? All right. And the stigma. I think those are some of the stories that we need to highlight. From back in the days whenever we would have the talk as girls in primary school will not include the boys. So the boys always grew up not knowing what it entailed. When you soil your cloth or you stain your cloth there will be a lot of stigmatization, the laugh at you and all that. And the first thing individual people are doing in association with the government is breaking the silence around this ensuring that the girls get the right education, the boys get the right education. And so that when they grow up or as they grow up they know exactly what is needed. They know that it is not a taboo to menstruate. And also I see a lot of organizations coming up with them means of providing sanitary material to the girls. And there's a system of government in place where they provide sanitary materials to school going kids. So I think that cubs part of the issue. But if you're telling me these stories I lighted in Tanariva three days ago. The government has been giving parts for the past many years. So it's still not adequate. That is where I see there's a challenge. It's still not adequate. And maybe they need to increase on the supply or come up with better materials that can be reusable. And girls do not need to go through the problem of or the problem of trying to attain menstrual material every month. All right, so how bad is it right now considering these most of the countries are in lockdown and the advisory you just stay at home. So these particular girls and women at home and might probably be with people who just have this notion like it's the day of the month. So we're not about to interact. So how bad is it right now during the times of COVID-19? Well, we know, we'll talk about our country, Kenya. Yes, absolutely. The system in place provide parts in school. But now schools are closed. Yes. Yes, I was actually adding there. Yes, now schools are closed and we're wondering can these girls success these materials? I know about a number of NGOs that are working on house to house basis where they provide these sanitary materials to the girls and the women. But about the government system, I don't know how they're going to change from school to household. But one thing for sure is there's systems in place. There is, when you look at the health system from national government to county to sub-county, there's always somebody in charge up to the community level, up to the village level. These are called community health volunteers. So I know that if the government want to supply these parts to household, there's already a system in place where they can easily get to the people. But I cannot say that this is actually happening because I've not seen it, yes. So what would be your, from where you're seated? Yes, what would be your best action plan that you call out for, from the government? For the government? From the government, yes. Okay, so on the 28th of May, which was menstrual hygiene day 2020, Kenya launched the MHM policy. I think with this policy, once we start implementing this policy, then we'll be able to cover the challenges because during the, when the policy was being developed, these challenges were highlighted where women, what about the girls who are not going to school? What about women when they are at home and all that? These challenges were highlighted and I believe when we start implementation, we'll be able to cover these challenges and also address the issues of the materials that they can use. Okay, still on matters of the policy by the government. So the UNICF organization has supported the government of Kenya to develop the natural MHM policy and strategy. So one of the strategy being the fact that it will be incorporated into the new curriculum. So is there any clear plan or implementation in this? Oh yes, during the development of menstrual hygiene manual, training manuals, the KCD, which is the Kenya curriculum development, was involved and they were able to bring in their ideas on how this education, MHM education can be implemented to school. So I think once we put it under the curriculum, the kids can start being taught from primary school. We know that menstrual starts between age of 10. There are girls who even started at seven. Way earlier. Yeah, most of them started at 13. So once we start teaching this in school and these are recommendations approved by the KCD, I think we'll be able to cover that. You've mentioned something very important that we have young girls who actually start way earlier on their menstrual cycle. What is the importance of involving young boys and also involving the men back at home in this particular conversation when it comes when you tap on the aspect of stigma? Well, we know that a child is categorized up to about 10 years. So when you, there could be a bit of human rights when you try to teach issues of reproduction or issues of menstrual hygiene to a person who is considered a child. But this is where we bring in the men, the dads, the moms, where we teach them, we teach them early such that when your kid is undergoing menses at a young age, you can sit at home with them and make them go through it, you know, make them understand. I hope that answers the question. When you speak of sanitary towels and in general, so there's an aspect of looking at the financial aspect that is the financial gap. It may be looked at as very expensive because, again, it's disposable. You just use it once and you just over and done. What are some of alternative material products that our young girls and women can use? Okay, there's a lot of products, both reusable and disposable of the disposable products, you know, but the pads, the tampons, those are quite common and we use them a lot. But on reusable material, we have the menstrual cup. We have the reusable pads and panties where you can wash, you can rewash them. But as for Kenya, the standards for reusable pads are not yet out. It's still a discussion between the CABES and the Ministry of Health. Oh, right. So they're not out yet. Because those are about to ask the proper standard. Exactly, so they're not out yet. That is why when you ask me about reusable material, I would tell you what they are, but I would not give you intel or recommend you to use or not use them. That would be a personal decision because I cannot recommend something that I do not know the standard zone. And then in future, when you get affected, I really can't be liable to that. All right, so you mentioned another material product that one can use and that is the menstrual cup, which can last for approximately over 10 years. So why don't we resort towards that? Because it's cheaper considering the timeframe and though yet you have to spend it at a point, but when you look at the lifespan, it's quite expensive. But you see that is a one-time spend. You spend it and it's made of silicone, as I understand it. I have a cup, but I know most girls cannot access the cup. Most girls can access the cup, but might not be able to meet the sanitation and hygiene aspect of it. Because if you take it to a lady in Turkana where they do not have water, according to you, you're supposed to use about 50 liters of water per day. But then there's people in low-income areas or arid and semi-arid regions who use only five liters, five to 10 liters. So if you ask a girl to use a menstrual cup, you know a menstrual cup needs to be cleaned. And if it is not cleaned, then it might cause even more problems. So I think the standards need to be out first and I would encourage the government to work on the standards quite first. So they do not have to take time. I know these conversations have been ongoing since 2017. Absolutely. So I think they should first track that so that our girls can have more options during their menstrual. Still on matters of different materials that one can use during their menstrual cycle. There is, let's look at two products here. You mentioned the tampons and the menstrual cup, right? And the pads. Let's go with those two for this question that I have for you. So what happens for a young lady who is not sexually active? Does this affect the hymen? No, absolutely not. This is where most of us get it wrong. The hymen is way, way up. You do not even get to the hymen. It's just before the cervix. And when you put a tampon or you put a menstrual cup, it only goes in the part of the vulva. If you, the vagina, when you look inside the vagina, there's the first part where is the vagina and then there's the second part. Yes, so no, it does not get all the way up. Okay, all right. The hymen is very far. I think that's where it should not be stressed about that. That actually puts parents at ease because they avoid when young girls talk about tampons and the menstrual cup. That always, it's a question that is usually come up. So let's look at a couple of effects on when it comes to poor menstrual hygiene. As I was continuing on the conversation on water, menstrual hygiene is according to the SDG6, which is a Provincial of Water, Sanitation and Hygiene Wash Services. When we focus on SDG6.2, is where we're talking about sanitation and hygiene specifically and that is where MHM falls in a lot because women right now really want reusable pads or women want options that can last. But if we cannot be able to have water, that's why right now it's not, when I mentioned the government, I mean Ministry of Health, Ministry of Water, Ministry of Education, they should all come together. Even Ministry of Works, because when a woman is menstruating, she needs the wash, I keep saying wash, it's water, sanitation and hygiene. So they need the wash, buildings in place. You need a toilet, a clean toilet that has water. You need soap to wash and you need privacy. When you can't access all these things, then it's already a challenge. But when we come together, we talk about this and make people understand, even in schools, make them understand that girls do not, you go to school, they only have six toilets, six units for girls and there's no being, supposedly it's a flush toilet, there's no being to dispose of the pads or the tampon or any of the materials that they're using. I think that's already a problem. That's why the ratio is about 25 girls to one wash closet and about 30 boys to also one wash closet. But if a girl is undergoing menstrual, we should also implement a bit of water, maybe bathrooms, especially in high school and primary schools, so that if you start your periods, sometimes they come too early or too late. If you start them and you're not planned, you can easily clean yourself. So back when I was in high school, we used to have a health program, a health club, per se. And we would just gather girls and just have this conversation from books and everything else. I would like to find out, do you work with any organization that gives back to the society to these girls? And if so, what are the processes that you guys take on to just understand, just to get a feedback from these girls and know how they're doing in terms of the whole process? Well, there's a lot of organization I work with. There's a lot of organization I consult with. I will not mention names because I will not endorse any organization. It's okay, yeah? But I will mention the work they do. I know of NGO in Kibera that is teaching women the right education, the right way to manage their messes. I know of one international organization that came up with this bid, this bid. These are the days you menstruate, then these are the other days. So when you give it to a primary school, is it so easy to actually know your safe days for the women with us? Well, I think we'll talk about menstruation first. No, just saying. Oh, yes, you would know, you would know. But we'll talk about menstruation, yeah? So when you give this to a primary school girl, she would know the days that she'll be prepared. Two days before her menstruation, she'll start carrying the right materials that she uses, and you can custom make these. If your menstruation is six days, you put six red beads. If it's two days, you put two red beads, and the rest of the days of your circle. So you keep counting as you go. So that ensures we are prepared before the menstruation to ensure that we don't get any embarrassing moments where we stain our clothes or we don't have material. What about girls or women who menstrual cycle prolonged the amount of periods that are actually normal, which is like a week? It's menstruation. The circle is between 21 to 35 days, usually. And menstruation is between two to seven days, yes. If you are having too much bleeding, I would advise you to visit your gynecologist because then that could be a problem. And before you ask me the second question, on the first question on what organizations are doing, these are wash clubs that have been implemented in schools. You go to school and identify menstrual hygiene management champions or wash champions. And when you have these clubs in place, then it makes it easy for the people to talk about menstruation. All right. So the commemoration of menstrual hygiene, which is initiated by washing back in 2015, with that particular background, let's look at the milestone and challenges that you guys have actually faced. I mean, when we started, you mentioned the first challenge. The first challenge is from Tana River. All right. In low-income areas like the slum regions, in arid and semi-arid regions, women cannot access adequate material. Or you go to a region and the girls cannot go to school, so they can't really access the government provision of sanitary material. Wrong information being passed out is the second challenge. The third challenge is a lot of stigmatization, a lot of taboos associated with it. In African community, very few dads, very few dads have asked their daughters, are you okay? And we're going shopping, would you need extra pads? I don't think that is a conversation we ever have. So I think not having the right information out is a very big challenge. But when we talk about the milestone, what has been happening so far, number one, the menstrual hygiene management policy is out and it's been launched. Secondly, we have standardization of the materials that is ongoing. We also have many upcoming individuals and NGOs who want to go out there and help the women during this period and provide proper sanitary material. We also have the training manual for schools and for other people. Like right now I know most ladies in the counties have been trained because there was a program where all 47 first ladies in the counties are being trained so that they can be a stronghold in their county and ensure that the girls' child needs have been met. Okay, so guys, remember to follow us across all our social media platform that is at Y254 channel, use the hashtag entrepreneurship tools. And we have a question for you on our Facebook page that is how much have you ever spent the most on a leisure activity? So make sure you head onto our Facebook page and keep the conversation going. So I would like to find out what would be your final words? Not as just as a doctor but as a lady. Yes, as a woman, as someone young girls can look up to in the society. When it comes to passing out the message onto the fire that there's stigma and we need to break this stigma in terms of the silence. When it comes to menstruation in our society, what would be your final words? We know that women are, women run the economy. And if you can lock a woman up for three days or five days when she's menstruating, we know what, for economists, we know what can happen in three days when the economy is dying. So we need to empower our women and for us as ladies, it's normal to menstruate. This is something we're going to do for so many years of our life. And the more we accept it and find easier materials to use or better materials to use, then we'll be able to be more effective in whatever we do. And also, I want all of us, ladies and gentlemen, to unify our voice and ensure that the right message is passed out there, reduce stigmatization and give a helping hand whenever we can. There you have it. Ladies, they run the world, right? Absolutely. So remember to keep the conversation going on our social media handles. And thank you very much, Dr. Lorraine, for coming through and actually educating us and helping the process of breaking the silence when it comes to matters of menstruation. So guys, back at home. Remember, keep it right here on Wine the Morning Entrepreneurship Tuesday, Y254 channel is where you can find us across all our social media platform. At Michelle Ashira is where you can reach out to me. And remember we have a question for you. And the question is, how much have you ever spent the most on a leisure activity? How much have you ever spent the most on a leisure activity? That's on our Facebook page, Y254 channel. Heather, I want to hear your thoughts on this. Keep the conversation going, we'll be right back and I'll be sampling your comments live right here. So you don't want to miss this and much more. So right now we're going back to a musical break and we'll be right back.