 Okay, so Becky we're ready. Okay. Hi everyone I'm Becky bash I'm a senior planner with the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission, and heading up this agent dementia friendly community initiative so happy to be here. I am a resident of Williamsburg but happy to be working in Amherst. I'm Paley. So I'm Haley Bolin I'm the director of senior services been on the job for all three weeks now. Not an Amherst resident live in South to your field but very happy to be a part of the town. Yay, we're excited that you're with us. And this is such great timing for having you start Paul. I'm Paul Backelman. I'm the town manager. I'm not part of the group but I'm really excited about the work this work getting started. I've lived in Amherst for five years and then before that I went to college at Hampshire College so I was here for that period of time, and then had a little piece of break in between. So thank you. Thank you. I'm Mia. Mila. Oh, I'm Mila. Yeah, I'm Mila Montemayor. I'm not sure. Am I in the right group rosemary. Right. Okay. I have been living in Amherst for about four years. And I was with the group of it draws Murray on the council on aging. And this is my first time to see such a big group here I'm so happy to meet you all. Yay, we're happy. We're happy you're here. Nancy. I've been in Amherst for 37 years, but in the area of 48 years. I'm chair of the board of health right now. In the 80s and 90s I volunteered at the senior center, and my background before I moved over to public health was gerontology and home care. And right now we've helped three of our older neighbors. We've been healthcare advocates to make sure that they were getting the right kind of services and care. Rosemary. Yes, I'm Rosemary Koffler. I'm part of the leadership team of the Amherst console on aging. I've lived in Amherst since 1965. It's a long time. And I'm happy to see such a large group here. Captain Steven. You might have to. Yeah, I'm Steve gone. I'm a shift captain at the Amherst fire department and this project addresses a population that we interact with on a daily basis. I have actually a number of staff who have family members who have had or are currently a drug deal dementia. So it's kind of an interesting and important thing to us so I want to see how this project was going and what it enticed. Great, we're happy that you're here. Steve George. So I'm Steve George I've lived in Amherst for 49 years. And I guess my vital statistics make me give me an interest in the project and maybe not hopefully not a conflict of interest but I'm also on the board of health so I'm interested for that reason also. Great. Steve, Liz Walsh. Oh, you're muted. My name is Liz Walsh and I am on the board of Amherst neighbors. And I'm also a home care and hospice nurse so get to see a lot of the ways that older people are living in Amherst. So I'm very interested in this. Great. Alex. I'm Alex Lefebvre. I'm a Jones Library trustee. I also grew up actually in a multi-generational house with four generations and have continued to live in a multi-generational house. So I have seen both Alzheimer's and dementia firsthand and I'm thrilled to see this committee happening. So thank you. Carolyn. I just want to jump in. There's a couple of people in the attendee. Yeah. So those there's the attendees I have tried to make you a panelist. You may need to press a click on a button to be promoted as a panelist. And I believe if you call in from a phone number. You may remain as an attendee and once it's your turn will will allow you to talk. I think you need to press star six or star nine to speak. I will look into that. But thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. Carol. Yeah. Hi, I'm Caroline Letterman and I'm the board president of Amherst neighbors and I've lived in Amherst for 15 years and then the Valley for 23. John Hornick. Oh, John, you're muted. Yep. I'm John Hornick. I have lived in Amherst for about 40 years. And I am chair of the Amherst municipal affordable housing trust. So that's one interest that I bring to this group. I want to be looking into what the housing needs are of older adults in Amherst going forward. Charlie. Hi, I'm Charlotte Mullin and I apologize for the construction noise behind me, but my family moved to Amherst in the mid 1970s. I no longer live in Amherst, but my dad who's in his 80s does still live in Amherst. So as a caregiver that was what sparked my interest when I saw the announcement of this meeting. Nancy. Nancy, Eddie. Yes. Hi, I'm Nancy, Eddie. I've lived in Amherst for over 60 years. Now live at Applewood. And I think you'll find there are several people here from Applewood who saw your announcement and are very interested in what's going on in general with aging and dementia and how patients can participate and help out as needed. Hey, Lucia. Hi everyone I'm Lucia Churowski I'm been a sort of off and on resident of the area for many years. I'm a master's student at UMass Amherst and I'm a research assistant with the Amherst municipal affordable housing trust. Great. Thanks, Tim Nielsen. Oh, you're muted. There we go. Good afternoon. I was with the fire department. I'll echo what Captain Khan, Don said our day to day we were in the acting with the folks, folks that this committee will be focused on. And we want to see where we can end of the end of the intersect and be the assistance or part of what this group is trying to do. I mean, we are part of the community. So this, this means a lot to us. Great. Dottie Rose. Oh, I'm Dottie Rosenthal. I didn't know how to put my name up but I got my email there. I live at Applewood and Nancy Eddy and Pat wishes here and several other people are going to be looking into how residents at Applewood can best deal with other residents who are having some dementia. I want to see what we can learn from you and whether you can be of help to us. Great, great Dottie. Let's see here. Mary. Hi. Yes, that's hi I'm Mary Terrell I also live at Applewood. I've been here three years. I've been in the Valley since 2006. I'm a retired geriatric psychiatrist so I know a good deal and I want to be able to help. And thanks. Great. Sue. Audrey. I'm a retired family practice doc I practiced in Amherst since 1992 and I now have lived in Amherst for the last six years. I'm involved with Amherst neighbors and I'm also a chronic illness navigator, and I work with mostly older adults who have chronic diseases and help them to find their way through the healthcare system and through their communities. So I'm thrilled that you're doing this. Great. Jerry Weiss. Here's my muting button. We hear you. Oh, you hear me. I didn't do anything. Hi, I'm Jerry Weiss. I've lived in Amherst for 41 years. I was the liaison to the council on aging for six years. While on the select board. And the liaison to the DAAC for six years. And then on the DAAC for 10 years. And I'm currently president of Craig stores. And also I was, I've been a psychotherapist for 40 years in Amherst and worked with a number of families experiencing dementia and caretaking of loved ones who had dementia. So it's a lot of interest of mine. Great. I'm glad you're here. Pam Rooney. And you're muted. Hi Pam Rooney live on cottage street. And I'm very interested in understanding how dementia and aging plays into how we design our town centers and our sidewalks and streets. And as we think about the physical aspects of town and how we can apply what we know. This is a wonderful organization. I think every town should have a group like this. Thank you. Pat. Hi, I'm Pat wish I am very new to Amherst. I've learned how to say it without the age. I was in Philadelphia, I am a psychologist and have had a relatively. What's the word I'm looking for. I've worked with a lot of families as a psychologist who are dealing with family members with dementia. I'm on a committee at Applewood where I live now with the other people that you've met. And we are trying to do some work on figuring out how best we can manage ourselves in together with able body. It's quite different word but I can't think of a better one and people who are on the continuum. I'm very glad to be here. Thank you. Thank you. Jill Sherman. Oh, hi. This might, I'm going to stay for the meeting. I didn't know what it was. He mentioned it to me. But it's interesting to me so I'm going to stay. I didn't know it was about dealing with people with dementia. But I'm just going to stay. Great. And it's also for age, age friendly so it, you know, persons that are 55 plus. I qualify by a couple decades on 73. So I'm staying. Oh, wonderful. We're glad you're staying. Laura Keen. Hi, I'm more keen. I'm a recently retired physician. And at the daughter of someone with dementia. So, and obviously I'm up there in the right age group too. I also write for the indie, and I'll be covering this meeting hopefully. Yay. Okay. Hello, I'm Ray harp. I'm the new director of recreation for the town. We focus a lot on health and community. And I think there's some very important overlap that we're going to have here. So I'm excited to be here today. Look forward to being involved as we move forward. Okay, great. And so we have a few attend these so the, the person that's calling in with a 413 area code. I believe if you press star six, somehow my memory is escaping me. You'll be able to speak. And I just asked you to unmute yourself. So maybe you'll help ask to unmute. See here. There's a few on the second page else and worry. Okay. And Terry. Okay, so the person. Well, we wait for the person to chime in from the phone. Maybe they want to be quiet. Maybe they're not ready to speak. Terry car. Would you like to introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Terry car. I'm the secretary or maybe the secretary for the council on aging and I volunteer at the senior center. Great. Welcome. And let's see, we have a panelist that's raising their hand. Oh, sarin. Sorry, sarin. I don't know how I missed you. I'm a resident of Amherst for 40 plus years. And until I retired from Stavros, I was very involved with the needs of people with disabilities and I'm a woman with a disability myself using a wheelchair. And I'm a member of the AC committee. I'm very interested in this meeting. Wonderful. We're glad you're here. All right. And Lee Heinz. Hi, I'm Lee Heinz, a resident since 76. And I'm interested in the subject of this meeting. Wonderful. We're glad we're glad that you're here. All right. Oh, we have one another raised hand. Who's this? Oh, oh, Myra. Sorry, Myra. We have Myra Ross. I'm Myra Ross. I'm the current chair of the disability access advisory committee. I'm interested in physical and programmatic access for people who live in Amherst. And so this is a good place to be. I'm glad you're here. Dorothy Pam. I just want to say hello. And some people in my family have lived to be quite old. My mother too, almost 102. So I see aging as a major, major part of life and something that we are all very interested in. I'm really glad that we're going to be working on this. And I do appreciate the mention somebody made earlier of sidewalks. Never forget that. But thank you very much. Dorothy Tracy Zafian. Hi, my name is Tracy Zafian. No, it's fine. I've lived in Amherst for about 20 years. Age related needs have been an interest of mine for a long time. I previously volunteered for things like meals on wheels and home visits. I do have some close relatives with dementia. I'm currently the chair of the transportation advisory committee. And we look at transportation, really holistically and comprehensively including in terms of access and equity across generations. That's a big focus of mine. I previously did some graduate work at MIT at the MIT age lab. And they really look at very different, many different aspects of aging and living better as people age. The focus there was on transportation, particularly transportation access to healthcare services, including when people stop driving. And I currently work at UMass at the transportation center there. And I work closely with the state DOT and they do a lot related to complete streets and better sidewalks and transportation alternatives and things which I really think is important across generations again. So, I'm glad to be here today. Thanks. Thank you, DC. And did we miss anyone. If you would like to introduce yourselves and please use the raise your hand feature to indicate Nicole. I'm Becky's intern over at PV PC, and I also have resided in Amherst for the past three years at because I go to UMass. So I'm excited to work with a community that I am familiar with. Great, we're excited that you're part of this. And I felt like I saw another hand that maybe the hand disappeared. So, oh, Chad. Hi, Chad. A little late here. My name's Chad. I'm with council on aging. GCC community engagement with elders, Amherst neighbors, North Hampton neighbors and so forth. Thanks for inviting me. Absolutely. We're glad that you're here. All right. Well, I think we have introduced ourselves. So, let's go on. Oh, Helen. Hi there. Hi. Sorry, I came in late. I was tied up with something else. So I'm Helen McMillan, the social worker and program director over at the senior center. Many of you know me. I've been here about 10 years and I would say I'm interested in pretty much all the aspects of age and dementia friendly issues. So thank you for having me here. I'm very fortunate that you're here. And we have Jen Moisten here. You want to introduce yourselves, your name, your affiliation and how long you've lived in Amherst. Sure. So my name is Jennifer Moisten and I am the assistant director of diversity equity inclusion for the town of Amherst. I've lived in Amherst just about my entire life. I was raised by a woman who adopted me at an older age. And so I spent a lot of my time as a youth volunteering at the Amherst senior center with Meals on Wheels and also going to individuals homes to be a companion. And so that has and just, you know, living with my mom has showed me the need that there is for seniors and the frustration that they can go through as they become older and as dementia hits. And so I'm very interested as well as throughout my title with inclusive and diversity. Okay, wonderful. And we're going to do one more intro and I think we need to move on is another Maureen. Let's see here. If you want to introduce yourself. Maureen Mila, Melee. Hi. Hi there. I'm Maureen Malay and I'm a member of the board of health. I'm sorry I joined late, but I'm happy to be here to participate and listen. Great. We're glad that you're here. Okay, so it's, it's great to hear everyone's background and excitement for this project. We're now going to turn to Becky Bish, who is our consultant from PVPC that's the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission, who's going to give us a project overview and give an overview of the project timeline as well. So I, I turn to you Becky. Maureen, and I'm just, I have a slideshow. And then we will have an opportunity at the end for some more participation, but just wanted to go through the, give you a project overview and a timeline for the project. And then Maureen and John Hornet will talk about a little more about the draft community engagement plan for a survey that we're going to be getting out there in the community. And then we'll share some goals and interests of working group members and all of you and schedule another meeting to review the survey and then talk about working group meetings going forward. So this is part of the Agent Dementia Friendly Pioneer Valley Initiative. This is a project that was funded by the Tufts Health Plan Foundation to get to allow staff at the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission to assist our member communities in becoming Agent Dementia Friendly. This map shows sort of the different levels of designation that communities in our region have. The hill towns in the upper left all went in as sort of a sub region. And so any town that has a red heart, that means that they have been designated as age friendly and have also submitted community assessment and action plan. Communities with a purple heart like Amherst are partners in this project. So we're working with these communities to do these community assessments and action plans. Belcher Town has already submitted their report so they have that designation we worked with them last year. The purple stars are communities that are dementia friendly. So in addition to working with individual communities, we are in the process of thinking about submitting an application to become an agent dementia friendly region because we're finding throughout the communities that we work with there are a lot of similar sort of issues that may be some that we could go in on together in terms of finding grants to, you know, do do studies that are more regional in nature. So I plan for an aging population. So by 2035 it's estimated that older adults are going to outnumber children under 18. So the aging population is growing and soon to become sort of a majority of our population in many communities and that's throughout the US and also worldwide and that's basically because people are living longer and also having fewer children. So in thinking about that, you know, we want to think about, are there barriers to people as they age, you know, and as as people start to acquire cognitive and physical disabilities, are there barriers that prevent them from participating fully in the community. So an age friendly community, according to the World Health Organization is an inclusive and accessible community that optimizes opportunities for health participation and security, so that the quality of life and dignity are ensured as people age. And really, it's a great place to grow up and grow old so if you're, if you're making, you know, sidewalk ramps for people within wheelchairs and also benefits people with strollers. So it benefits everyone. And a dementia friendly community is a community that's informed safe and respectful to foster the quality of life for those living with dementia and their care partners. So it's really exciting to see all of you here and I've heard many of you say you have family members or have worked with people with dementia. It is a growing issue and in my own family. I'm dealing with it right now as I as I go through this work. The agent dementia friendly designation process. It's so first there's an online application through AARP for age friendly designation and we'll be working on that weeks. And the dementia friendly designation process is a little bit different right now. The work report gets submitted later, then you form a working group and I understand that several working group members have been appointed and, you know, we'll figure out, you know, what the final working group is as we as we go forward. The main part of this project is to engage older adults. And so I'm really excited that so many people are here and people who can call themselves older adults. We're all aging, but those of you who are older and living in the community, you know what your, you know, what some issues are that need to be addressed so we're really happy that you're here. Once we've done the community engagement, both the survey and some other engagement, we develop a community assessment and action plan. And then that's a report gets submitted to AARP Massachusetts and dementia friendly Massachusetts for final designation as well as a dementia friendly pledge that signed by working group members and an elected official. And then the community is left to implement the action plan so some communities have appointed committees to implement action plans going forward once PVPC is no longer involved. And then as you go forward. It's great to report to AARP and dementia friendly Massachusetts of some of the progress you've made on the action plan. This is a diagram from dementia friendly America of what an action team should, should encompass some of the areas of the community that should be represented so local government, different residential settings, businesses, caregiver services and supports clinics and hospitals, community members, etc. The faith community is a great one. Home care providers and legal and financial so I think a lot of different people are represented here today which is great but these are areas to start thinking about in terms of how to how to raise awareness within the community on the issue of dementia. Community assessment. Some of the tools we use our community profile data from the mass healthy agent collaborative. So that's combination of census and health data that's provided for every community in Massachusetts. So today, and we'll talk a little bit more about that later, but we've developed a shorter survey that's both online and will be in hard copy form for to gather data from folks and especially targeted at older adults. And then some additional engagement so that will be either in person or online forums to to get more participation. There's a healthy aging for all toolkit which I'll talk about later that's to incorporate inclusivity of all different sectors of the community from the very beginning. We've worked on a municipal checklist that gives some examples of programs and policies that support healthy aging and each of these different domain areas. And, and then as we develop the assessment we also look at any existing plans and reports that are in the community so the master plan open space and recreation plan. And we pull out recommendations that applies older adults and can support this work and point to them and sort of repeat them in the community assessment is this is this is work that the town's already doing. So this is a snapshot of part of the community profile that has some of the census data and other health statistics. Some, some highlights are the population. And this is again this, this is a few years old. They haven't updated their community profiles but front so American community survey data from 2012 to 2016. The total population 60 and older in Amherst is about 4000 or 10% of the community. 7.3% was 65 and older, about 2800 people, almost 30% of people over 65 live alone. And 13% have been veterans of our veterans of military service. 93% speak only English at home so there are other languages spoken, and about 11 or almost 12% of people over 65 have all have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's or related dementias. As we do the community assessment, we're using this model that was developed by the mass healthy aging collaborative. And it's a combination of the World Health Organization's eight domains of the livability for an age friendly community, as well as the 10 domains of a dementia friendly community that was developed by dementia friendly America. So the mass healthy aging collaborative put those two together as well as created a toolkit for agent dementia friendly communities, because there's a lot of overlap in each of these domain areas. And I think this model is effective because it, it shows that an agent dementia friendly community is not just the built environment so you have, you know, outdoor spaces and buildings housing and transportation. Those are all areas that are, you know, sort of the focus of what planners usually look at. But the community also includes you know communication information and technology how do people know about programs and services that are available access equity and inclusion. So it's a social environment so social inclusion and participation and civic participation and employment, public safety, it's great to see some folks from fire and police departments year and that that's a big area, especially for people with dementia, you know, making sure you have, you understand where people live and and if they have any health needs in case of emergency, and then health and community services as well. So the goals of a couple of these domains I'm not going to go through every one of them but for transportation, you won't have safe and affordable modes of both private and public transportation, supported transportation for people with disabilities, walking and biking infrastructure that's accessible and comfortable for people of all ages and sidewalk someone mentioned that are in good condition for people with mobility limitations, as well as for people with strollers. So crossings that are well lit and allow time for slower walkers or people in wheelchairs to cross and well time signals, sometimes pedestrian islands are effective and signs that are easy to read. Housing should there should be affordable housing so smaller or shared units accessory apartments are great for people who want to downsize home sharing can be an option for people who want to downsize or have more affordable housing housing that's accessible. So first floor units or elevator access or ramps were needed assisted living and long care, long term care options so I understand Applewood is potentially one of those a number of you are from there. Home modification program so for people who want to stay in their homes to other modifications that are needed to make them more accessible. There are services available for people who want to age in place and Amherst neighbors is a great example of that volunteers providing base, you know help with basic tasks for people who are aging in place. And then smart growth so housing that's located near retail and services and parks places where people can walk when they can no longer drive. And then neighborhoods that are safe where people can walk and roll where they need to go. And then of social inclusion and participation for people living with dementia could be memory cafes so opportunities to socialize for people with dementia and their care partners. Support groups for caregivers and people with dementia memory kits at libraries so staff are trained on on how to work with people with dementia and some of these memory kits are you know might be games or things that people can do it very different levels of dementia. Purple tables or restaurants that have special hours for people with dementia and their caregivers and that could include older adults. It's a great way to to get people in at off hours, but also providing a quiet, a quiet environment that's less less sort of confusing for people with dementia. And then just raising community awareness so educating the community and all different sectors of the community of how to recognize the signs of dementia, how to get evaluated and how to get support. This is I mentioned the healthy aging for all toolkit. This was developed by the mass healthy aging collaborative and it includes this community crosswalk. So across the top are the different domains of an agent dementia family community. And on the column on the left is a lot of all the different sectors that should be considered throughout this work to make sure that everybody's included. So, age behavioral health country of origin. Again people with dementia disabilities, economic security. And, and on and on. So these are all areas that we want to make sure represented and considered when any, with any actions that are proposed. This is also from the healthy aging for all toolkit so why inclusion matters. So for race and ethnicity residents to encounter racism related barriers to accessing health care less likely to use it. So we want to combat ageism and consider the contribute contributions to the community from people of all ages. Three out of every 10 older Massachusetts residents have been diagnosed with depression so behavioral health is important country of origin. People have different cultural views and that may impact their health or access to health care. Dementia again estimated 150,000 people in Massachusetts will be living with dementia by 2025 and people with disabilities so individuals with mobility vision hearing limitations and focus on ADA accessibility as it relates to diverse populations. So those are just a few of those sectors that were listed there's there's many more in this guide but I just wanted to provide an example of what's in that toolkit. I mentioned the, the livable community survey. This was sent out to working group members and will make it available to anyone else who joins the working group, and will be trying to work on that a little more this month to try to get it out soon. But it's it's organized by the different domains. And so it includes a number of questions in each domain area and ask you know what what folks think are the primary challenges for Amherst. We tried to make it short enough that people will take it it's still about seven pages long and hard copy form but online it takes about 10 to 15 minutes. So that will be finalized coming up it'll be available online and hard copy. And we'll also have these are my intern Nicole who's here creates these great postcards and posters to get the word out about the survey and those can be handed out or placed at stores. Just to get more participation or they can be posted on Facebook. So we also will want to talk about other ways to engage older adults. I'm really excited to see all of these people all of you here today that means a lot of you are comfortable with zoom and online meetings so it's potential that we could do some online listening sessions going forward. I've also done some topic based meetings so in Hadley and in months and I've done a few meetings sort of oriented around one or two of the topic areas the domains of an agent dimension friendly community. So we invite service providers, as well as residents to listen to, you know what our findings are in terms of what the assets and challenges are in the community. And to add to that and, you know, say what their experiences are and and what types of programs already exist. So we can do individual interviews with older adults, who, you know might have problems with the survey. So that's possible we can make that an option when we hand the surveys out. And we can also attend existing events so if there are congregate congregate lunches again. That's a great place to engage people. I've been at game nights in some communities where you know people always come so they're captive audience and and don't you know enjoy participating in this work as well. A proposed timeline going forward. We're hoping to review and finalize the survey this month so we'll talk about a date for a next meeting in January. We're going to post a survey online and have it in print form for mailing and hard copy distribution. Maureen and John Hornick we're going to talk a little bit about that in a minute. And then March we'll just look at the survey distribution status and start to discuss different types of community engagement events. So we decide on doing these focus discussions that will start in April and May, depending on whether we decide it's going to be online or in hardcore and in person. And we'll do probably four of those and then start working on an action plan and a community assessment report. So I'm going to stop sharing now and I'd be happy to take any questions and then turn it over to Maureen to talk about the survey survey engagement strategy. Liz. What would be the goal for the number of surveys to be meaningful for our size town. We usually try to get at least 10, 5 or 10% of older adults so in Amherst that's about 4000 so it would be about so 4000 over 60 so I'd say 200 would be good, but anymore would be gravy so I think you probably will have no problem with that. But John will also talk about doing a sampling of a sample mailing for the survey to try to really get a good cross section of participation. Dorothy Pam. I want to stress something. I am an old person I'm also a town counselor. I think that much more of the outreach has to be in person. So many senior citizens, number one are not on zoom, and to go to the senior center. So we're really going to find out what we have in town. It has to be. I mean I like that you're going to mail things, but if something looks complicated, or new, some people aren't going to do it. I think that getting a really good survey is so totally important. The easy ways aren't going to be good enough the, the way that will get you the results you want will take lots of people and lots of work and I'm willing to work on this with you but I know that I know lots of people older people who really are not going to answer anything online or be involved in that at all. Yeah, I know that's that's been our experience in other communities as well. And I am interested to hear from folks if you, if, if you think of different types of events that people would come to and be great to get some suggestions on that as well. Yeah, I agree with Doris's comment about survey and how we collect the data. I've spent my whole work life in doing survey research and sampling is so crucial that the yes there will be a lot of people who qualify for the survey but may not be able to fill it themselves. And then we pointed out some places where they don't speak the language, for example. So we have to, I think include other ways of collecting data other than sending it online because some of them can't even operate a computer. We may have to do some personal interviewing for people who are qualified sample, but cannot do it. So the sampling strategy is crucial for us to collect the right information. I'll be happy to help in any way I can for the sampling design and the, the methodology to collect the data. I don't know any because this is a lot of the, the, the universe is rather large. So we need to have a representative sample of our universe. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Nancy Gilbert. I just wanted to reiterate multiple languages, different cultures, and how are we going to reach those groups and disenfranchise populations. Yeah, no, that's well point well taken Nancy staff. We've been strategizing of determining, you know, what other languages other than English should the survey be provided in both in printed version and electronically. And we definitely would love any feedback on particular languages of interest in Amherst for for reaching senior residents here in Amherst. Also, the board, the Board of Health is trying to find funding and students to do a comprehensive health assessment. So this would be piece of it and also the racism group they've done, and they're working on a black census so we all should work together. To figure out how to gather this data and so that we each can use each other's data. That's great. Thank you. Myra Ross, you need to unmute yourself Myra. I was going to say that one way to reach people in this age group is to go through physicians, because whereas they're not going to answer surveys online. I would say we in the age group myself. And I would answer the survey online, but there are a lot of people who wouldn't, but physicians have connections with older adults. And so if you could find a way to contact the medical community there must be a medical society in Hampshire County. You know, you have primary care connections to most of the people that you're looking for that would be a great way to do it. Also, I want to say that I know that this task force is has a name that it's primarily about aging and dementia. Most aging, I would say that most people as they age. Or perhaps even more develop hearing problems and vision problems. And that has barely been addressed by, by the statement that was made. And I want to make sure that it's front and center. Ways to cross the street have to involve people who can't see the light and who need audible signals Maureen will get sick of hearing me say this, but never. But, you know, there is, there is a community of people with physical disabilities. It's not only people who can't walk. And who, or who walks slowly, but it's a bunch of people who cannot hear and who can and that is a huge social isolation, perhaps more so than most things. If you can't hear what's going on. You, you are very isolated and vision as well which is, I guess I might be the only blind person in this group, but there are, even if they're not totally blind, there are a lot of legally blind, or substantially vision impaired older adults and I think we have to put them front and center in the group as well. Thank you, Myra. Mary. Yeah. Mary, tell real. Can you hear me. Yes. Hi, yeah, I just wanted to second the idea about reaching out to primary care physicians offices. If you reach out to the physicians, they might be overwhelmed. But a lot of the offices have social services or social worker there who can reach out to the caregivers of people with cognitive and other kinds of disabilities and help them fill out the survey. Thank you. Yeah. Rosemary. Yeah, I anticipate there will be a need for home visits for some of these older folks and our very competent social worker at the senior center certainly would be in touch with some of that. Also the count of seniors the latest count of seniors and Amherst is now 5239. So that was an old report with 4000 seniors. But a few more and it's growing fast. So consider home visits for these surveys. Thank you. Thank you, Rosemary Jill. Nothing was mentioned and I appreciate all your hard work. What plans do you have to include in your committee to incorporate the aging and the dementia population will be living. It's been a while in the time of the COVID and possibly other epidemics and are you asking in your service survey, are you isolating due to the COVID and also I want you to know that home health aids currently in Massachusetts in private agencies, home health care agencies do not have to be vaccinated only Medicare and Medicaid agencies. So if you want to advocate for something. You could also have people right to their congressman to get required these aids to be vaccinated so there are many problems with the COVID and having congregate meals, a meeting in restaurants maybe people aren't going to feel comfortable doing that. And so I don't know if when your committees are meeting to include the fact that there is a pandemic and it makes the socialization harder that's all. Thank you for that we do. We do have a question on the survey about social isolation and we started this project in 2020 so it is definitely come up as quite a big issue. Thank you so much for listening to me. Of course, Helen. Helen you're muted. Thanks not working. Helen. Let's see here asked to unmute. I think Mike isn't working. Can you hear me now. Yes, yep. I just wanted to piggyback on what Rosemary said. If we can do home business if we're still are restricted with COVID. We also have several techs work off people here who are retired social workers. So certainly I could work with them and we can have a team of us making phone calls to do some of these surveys. So the retired social worker who comes in here is one of Trujillo who is bilingual in Spanish. So that would be four of us making phone calls to work in a survey if it came to that if we couldn't do home visits. Great. Great. Thank you Helen. And I, I think I saw a couple other hands bear with me one second. Oh, maybe that was it. Were there any other questions or comments. Okay. All right, well thank you I've been taking note of everyone's comments and questions. So we can incorporate those into the project. Okay, so now we're going to talk about the how we want to, you know, engage older seniors, you know, a big part of this project is is to is engagement and provide outreach and provide education and to better understand how well our community serves older adults and people with dementia and to explore how we can work together as a community to improve opportunities and outcomes for older adults and people with dementia. And so we will be distributing a survey that Becky had talked about and we're going to with the with the assistance and additional funding through the Amherst housing of the Amherst affordable housing trust. We will be doing a sampling of surveys through mailing, and we have the chair person of that board John Hornick, who will talk in just a couple minutes, briefly talk about that process. And so, yeah, so we would like to do a mailed survey and also have hard copies available at key places for seniors to pick up and fill out the survey so we'll have surveys at the bank center for the meals on wheel pickup location at Craig's Craig's door, the Amherst survival center, primary care offices and pharmacies. And we would love to have any other suggestions of locations of where to keep hard copies available. And we could include surveys and other languages other than English at these locations as well. And we will be definitely looking for assistance from key organizations to get the word out about these surveys, both, you know electronically and in hard copy. We're going to ask organizations to include in their, you know, monthly new newsletters or their email distribution lists to, you know, promote this survey and this project so we'll be asking, you know, our senior services to include it in the senior spirit, which is the their bi monthly newsletter. We'll be asking Amherst neighbors to promote the survey and the project, League of Women Voters of Amherst, the Amherst Housing Authority and of course the town of Amherst will be promoting the survey and the project on our town website. We have an engage Amherst page to which we'll focus on all our engagement strategies as part of this project and our, you know, social media channels like Facebook and Twitter. And we'll reach out to our local newspapers, like is that the Amherst and Amherst Indy and the Bolton to help get the word out about about the surveys and in the project. And let's see here. And then there's, those are just a sample of different organizations that will be asking to get the word out will be turning, you know, asking assistance from various boards and committees to get the word out including the town council. The Amherst affordable housing trusts. The different the various senior residential communities such as green leaves. Applewood and Amherst Housing Authority. And our racial equity task force. And the list goes on and on of including church groups to get the word out about the surveys in the project in general. And so I would like to turn to to John Hornick, who will talk a little bit more about the printed surveys. The importance of providing printed surveys. Okay, thanks Maureen. I assume you can hear me. Yes. I originally got into this because the housing trustees wants to see data related to housing, and we can't get data related to housing, unless the survey itself is reasonably well responded to by representative group of people in Amherst. So, just to begin, my reason for wanting to be involved is to assure that a representative random sample of Amherst residents over the age of 55 will have an opportunity to complete the survey. But I also know that that's not sufficient. And you if you do a random sample of adults over the age of 55, you're going to find that a number of population groups are not going to be there and sufficient numbers to learn what their needs and interests are. So we need a supplemental convenience sampling strategy to assure their representation. So basically we have two arms. As people have mentioned earlier this is a complicated process so I don't forget this I want to say, in order to do the best job possible, we will need help. We'll be reaching out to students which is one reason why we want to get this off the ground as quickly as possible. We're interested in having community members assist us in the process to. So, if you are interested in helping in any way can be interviewing it can be data, other kinds of data collection it can be data entry, or even data analysis, we're planning. Please let us know as soon as possible. Please let Marine know that you are interested, and I will be getting back to you. I will have a survey group appointed and be asking about 20 people to participate in that process, including you Mila, I haven't forgotten your interest. Thank you. The strategy for the male survey is the following. We will use the town street list to identify people over the age of 55. And we will send out a male survey to a random sample of 500 residents who are on that list. And then we'll wait three or four weeks, and we know that not everybody's going to respond. And so we will send out a second mailing to people who didn't respond. And through that process I'd hope to get back at least a couple 100 surveys. So if people can respond to the mailing, there'll be a self a step self address stamped envelope back to us. So people just need to fill out the paper survey and send it back. They'll also have the option of filling it out online. So they can do one or the other. I said, with two mailings we hope to have a reasonably good sample. But as I said earlier, that's not good enough, we need to be reaching out to other groups. So we'll be getting surveys out to the various groups that marine was mentioning. That will go out electronically and I'm going to do my list, so people can come back and say, Oh, you forgot. And that's what I want to hear from you. The town website. The council on aging. And this conclude include newsletters Amherst neighbors, the Jones library. So the disability access committee, the League of Women Voters of Amherst, the publication the Amherst Indy Mora. Also, we'll be looking at Facebook pages there's a housing advocacy coalition and the racial equity task force, and we'll going at an organizational level. We'll have requests to participate at grades place at the bank center meal distribution at the Amherst survival center. And we'll also look at other kinds of person to person requests to permission to participate particularly with Amherst communities of colors. So that's my current list. And some of the detail all needs to be worked out but if you've got another idea. This is a good time to let us know where else we should be going. I heard people mentioned primary care physicians offices, so that we might find a way to try to do that. But most important as I said we need help. And so if you're interested in helping, let us know, we'll appreciate your voluntary efforts. Thanks john, it looks like there's a few people that have questions or comments I'll start with Dorothy. I know you may think is silly but I think lollipops are great. And I think that there should be a lollipop either for picking up your form or for putting it into the slot. And, you know lollipop is real I know you I think you're talking about some chance to get some money. Most people say I'll never win that, but a lollipop's a lollipop so I'm just hoping we can get a donor to buy a lot of lollipops. Thank you about a tootsie pop. I love the idea. I love the idea. We'll talk about it. Okay, oh sorry, Nancy, Eddie. Could you just give us a quick example or a quick summary of the kind of questions that you're asking on the survey. I'll let Becky give a couple examples. If you don't mind Becky. Yeah, no problem. I'll actually share my screen for a minute. Just as I go through it. And so again this was modeled on a survey that was, we've worked with Aguam, Belcher Town, Munson and Hadley so far and where. So we've kind of been refining the survey as we go. So we have sort of basic background information. How important is it for you to remain in Amherst as you get older and how would you rate Amherst as a place for people as they age. Claimant status. How important is it for you to stay in your own home, either independently or with a caregiver. We ask people to rate their physical and emotional health and which areas are most important for Amherst to focus on in the next five years. We then get into whether you need help or, and if you know where to get it in the areas of housing, health and community services, or coping with various things like abuse, forgetfulness, smoking, other related issues. Whether you've been concerned about different issues or had to skip due to financial constraints. So this, this survey that I have, Nicole has gone through and said how many times each question was skipped in various communities so that's one thing. We'll be having a survey subcommittee to look at the survey and think about, you know, is that question necessary, but it's going to be skipped a lot. So, you know, housing and different types of housing where people live now and where they would like to live. If their circumstances change. Health and caregiver services. You know whether people have some kind of an impairment that limits the ability to participate in the community. What are the types of services people need, or have given to as a caregiver. And what, you know, what is the reason to, to that people are need caregivers or providing caregivers services. Transportation, whether people primary forms of transportation and any difficulties. Communication, civic and social engagement so whether people are comfortable with internet primary sources of information. And how often people are in touch with friends or family. And for councils on aging or senior centers we have different types of programs and ask people how many, you know, these programs they take an advantage of. And if they don't use a senior center what are some reasons for that. So that's a quick overview and you know where this is an opportunity to, you know, think about what are some areas you really want some focused responses on so. And if anyone has any suggestions or wants to be part of the survey subcommittee, please contact me or Maureen and we can, we can give you our email address. Thank you. Great, thank you. We have a couple of Charlotte. Did you have a question. More just a comment and circling back to some of the previous discussion. I know just in working with my own dad who has dementia reading and writing are great challenges for him. So I think that just highlights the need for some face to face communication with folks if you're, especially where some of this work is to help support this older adults with dementia so I would just sort of reiterate that one other group that could be tapped into as well is he actually gets the home delivered that come out of the senior center so perhaps the folks that are delivering the meals could leave surveys or maybe have their routes altered in such a way that they have more time that they could actually spend with the person that they're delivering the meal to to actually ask the questions on the survey. Great suggestion. Yeah, that's great suggestion. Black churches, the mong and Lao community. Oh, great. That's good to know. Yeah. Thank you. I'm just typing this down so. Oh, great, great. Tracy. So I had a question I mean just given the length of the survey right it's like 40 questions including a bunch of sub questions like whether. And I don't know if you've looked at this and any of the other communities you worked with. In terms of perhaps having a shorter version of the survey that even though ideally you want everybody to get through all 40 questions plus sub parts but maybe if there was some shorter version with maybe 10 or 15 questions that if you go to particular audiences like such as the survival center or something where at least you get a baseline much number larger number of responses on those super important questions. And relatedly I was wondering about the idea of maybe I was thinking about this even with the last comment about in the senior meal deliveries but if the survey was available on a tablet. That could be put made available at the senior center or the survival center and things that would be one way to answer and then also then the responses would need to be entered manually later. Thank you. I think Mila has her hand up. Oh, thank you. Yeah. How long is the survey right now. The way it is. Seven pages now and online and survey monkey it's taken an average of 11 minutes. This is pared down from the ARP livable community survey which was about 35 pages long. And they, you know, they have an online version but we just thought that was too cumbersome. So, I'm happy to talk about making it shorter or doing a shorter version but I defer to those survey experts like you, Mila. Oh, you're very kind, but not another way of doing it because it's important to have the answers from each responded as a whole. One of the things that we can though we might want to think about is to divide the data collection in two phases where half of the data is collected phase one, and, and then another time is a phase two, or split the sampling, what do you think John, John Hornick. Okay, well, I'll say two things when I have spent some time with the survey. Initially, I was wondering if housing is going to be adequately represented and having gone through it a couple of times, or actually more. I have no problem with the number of housing questions or what the content of those are. I have no suggestions. I also ran the entire survey by the Amherst housing trust at our last meeting and actually a meeting before, and people did say well it looks a little long, but nobody could identify a specific item that they wanted to cut. And, you know, I looked at the analysis that Nicole had done for Becky, and it shows that there are some items that are not as well responded to as others. For example, there's an open ended my item that people just skipped. So let them skip it. No big deal. I think there are other items like that, which have apparently a high skip rate, but that's okay. Let people skip it it doesn't take a much longer. Very long to decide they don't want to answer. So I think the survey is cut down pretty well to do something that takes 10 or 15 minutes online is not a lot of time. And if people have problems reading or writing, then yeah we have to find another way to get them support, but reducing the size of the survey isn't going to solve that problem. Okay, so I kind of like it the way it is. But I think we should definitely listen to other people. You know, for example, Tracy you were concerned but I like to know what you would cut out. So we're going to hold a follow up meeting specifically on surveys, and we will schedule that at the end of this meeting. It can be everyone or it could be a smaller group of smaller group to meet and go through the survey and finalize that. We hope to have the surveys ready to be distributed starting in early February. So we are on a fast track, if possible to have this survey specific meeting in the next week or two. So we'll continue that conversation at that meeting and I'm realizing that we're, we're slightly behind schedule so we could take one more question or comment. But if there aren't any, let's continue on our agenda. So I don't know if anyone has any other question one other question or comment about the surveys doesn't look like it. Okay, so let's continue we're going to have Haley talk about help facilitate our next agenda item which is sharing of goals and interests of the working group members with regard to the age and dementia friendly planning process. And I'm just going to share my screen and and write these down as people talk. Also, but Haley go ahead. I have some sort of some sort of overarching goals that are usually goals for this type of process and so want your agreement on those but also go ahead. Absolutely do you want me to read those or I've got a little bit I'd like to say. Go ahead. I'll just start by saying first of all we thought we would only have 10 or 15 people to so to have almost 40 is a really amazing sign. The senior center has a vested interest in this process you know it's part of our mission is to help older adults age in place. And this is part and parcel to that. It's a very good sign on behalf of the town that they're recognizing the importance of older adults and showing their commitment to amplify in their voices with regards to town planning. You know our goal at the senior center is to represent all older adults not just those who can use zoom. We'd really like to see representation from the entire community. And certainly that includes caregivers. I'm hoping that it leads to more participation at the senior center. We have a lot of resources to offer we're not just meals or helping with an application we offer some really meaningful social interaction and great community. Thanks to the overarching goals you know we would like to get that age and dementia friendly designation that can help pave the way for grant opportunities to fix some of those sidewalks, for example, and just to increase awareness with cultural and community sensitivity towards older adults, raising awareness about dementia and how we can support people with dementia and their caregivers and engaging older adults to understand challenges and opportunities that they may experience in the community. And feel free to add to this we have a couple minutes if anyone wants to just shout out some other goals or specific interests you have. Looks like Chad, would you like to add something. Sure. We at the Council of Aging have one of the longest term. Town employees as as our director. That individual is now gone and one has replaced and we've moved on to another. Many, many decades since the Council on Aging has done its advocacy part for elders and in the town by strategic plan. If there's any way we could get a couple questions on the survey to get some data that we can direct our efforts for just strategic plan that would be great. Absolutely. And I think there are a few questions at the end right that talked about the services that we offer and whether people use it and reasons that they don't. Yeah, and you'll want to tailor that to your specific programs to. Yeah. Are there any other comments or questions related to this let's see here I see a hand raised give me one second. Alex. This may be implicit and things that you're gathering but I guess I would love to see things that are around health as well as so if you go to Taiwan, for example, you know, you see elderly people out everywhere and sort of the way that their structures are set up are for people to actively engage in them but specifically people over 65 and so if I would just want some element not to just be raising awareness of but how do we create a helpful community for people who are aging no matter what that looks like whatever they're dealing with in that in their aging. Thank you for that. Let's see here. Are there any other hands. Jerry. Thank you. I think it's, it's kind of been covered but I wanted to make sure that at least there was a spot for in the in the goals to staring with a G the the kind of public work segment of aging. I know that the DAC has been on top of this every year making requests curb cuts, repaired sidewalks repaired crossway walks. Hearing crosswalks. They're often either not working or they're so faint you can't hear them. And snow clearing, especially sidewalks and and curb cuts and parking areas, just to have a whole, an area of public works issues. Great. Thank you Jerry for. And I think I can bring up a sore point the, there's the continues I believe to be no access to the information center. Well to welcoming center. We're working on it. But yes, we, I hear you. We've been working on it for about eight years, I think. So we're subject but I should put it in. Thank you. I think there were a couple other people raising their lives Walsh. Yeah, I just, I have one that's a goal more in terms of the process, even in the outcome in terms of the ability to use the survey as a way to kind of galvanize and bring together older adults to start to kind of advocate on their own behalf. And I think this seems like a really wonderful opportunity to do outreach and to bring people together in that way. We agree. Dorothy Pam. Do you have questions on the survey about internet and cable TV. You know, I've just realized recently, you know how lucky I and my husband are during this time of, you know, basically staying in our house forever that we can get great television shows because we've got good cable. Internet and all this costs a lot of money. Is there any subsidy for people I mean I would hate to have not enough money to have these services and to be sitting in my house for two years and being being old I think it would be terrible so I'm just wondering if there are questions on it and any programs that anyone knows that helps bring people into a more equal situation. Yeah, that comes up a lot, especially during the pandemic because it's so important to be connected. To technology to for both social and health and, and all of that so thank you for that, but there are quest I think there are questions but I will just confirm that. That's, yeah. That's a great question Dorothy. Are there any other questions or comments. I see a hand. I saw, I saw a hand. Hold on a second. Oh, Rosemary. Can't hear you hold on a second. Rosemary, do you still have a question. How about any federal money to help people who have no internet or cable connection from the COVID package relief plan. Is, is that a possibility. $10 a month set up right now for those with low income. Okay. That's great. Thank you for chiming in Chad. Let me add one thing to the public work segment, perhaps keeping the white lines painted on the side of the road for elders who still drive at night. That's a good suggestion. I see Lee. Yeah, kind of kind of related in terms of the availability of funding for home modification. Like stair, stair elevators and, and access. I think that the programs may not be available, but the, the visibility of those programs and, and how to engage. I'd be interested in helping. No, that's a great suggestion. I mean, I and Becky Becky who hosted Becky's part of the regional age friendly committee through PVPC and they had a recent meeting last week and Haley and I attended it and we learned to some two grant programs to assist with home modifications geared towards seniors and for persons with disabilities. And, and so it's how do we inform others of this great grant program and I know I think Haley is going to include that in her next senior spirit newsletter. But you know what, what other ways can we help get the word out about, you know, different grant programs is definitely important to think about and how to execute how to implement that. So that's a great comment. Sarah, you have to unmute yourself, Sarah. Okay, sorry. Being a person with a disability. I can only use special transportation. I'm sure there are lots of elderly in my situation. And for us to participate in the activities of town, like if there's a concert or a play or something to join, we need assistance with transportation. And years ago, the town had transportation, and it was managed through senior center, and that provided provided the accessibility needs of people, even to go to work or to go to their medical appointments, or to join activities. And many of us that are disabled can be very helpful doing volunteer work, but getting to the site is a big is an issue. I know this personally. And you know, right now during the call with time, these zoom meetings really helped us a lot from my perspective at least we can easily set our alarms and tune in at the time. But when things get back to normal. Again, many of us with transportation issues will be isolated in our homes. So I think in the survey, we should stress on the transportation needs of people. So we can hear more about the challenges. You know, like people without any disability can just call Uber right, but we cannot do that. I don't know, maybe Ubers could provide some accessible transportation that I don't know. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Sue. I just wanted to respond to Lee's inquiry and to let people know that at the beginning of January Amherst neighbors had a program on the home modification loan program. The town of Amherst is designated to wayfinders as our agency. So our Sally from wayfinders was a presenter. It's recorded. And if you go to Amherst neighbors.org to our web page, you don't need to be a member. You can see a link to the recording on our YouTube channel. It's a free interest free loan program that does not go into repayment until you sell your home. It's a fantastic opportunity for people to make their homes accessible so they can stay put. Thank you. Thank you. And I should have the majority of everyone's email addresses. There are some. A few of you, I didn't. You might have heard about this event through the gazette or through word of mouth so I might not have everyone's email. If you haven't reached out to me or Haley or Becky directly, please send us an email so we can stay in touch for this project. We can certainly send you a link to these loan programs that Sue was talking about and Lee, and we can send you a link to the recording that featured on the Amherst neighbors website as well. Any other questions or comments. So we're, we're a little over time we should probably. I don't know if we should just set a date for the next meeting or email. Yeah. We would like to have a, a meeting that to review and finalize the survey we would, we're hoping to have that meeting next week. And today is Thursday with, I don't know if Thursday at one o'clock is sort of good general time for folks. We don't need the whole group to attend this meeting but we welcome it. We welcome everyone if it does work for everyone but I guess how could we. Is there anyone that's interested to take part of the survey specific meeting. And if so with one o'clock next Thursday work. Okay. Let's see. Yeah, so I guess you could you could raise your hand if you would like to be part of this survey specific meeting. That would be, that'll be question one. Okay, so, okay, so I see four hands raised five raised hands. Okay, let's see here. Hold on a second. John Hornick, of course, Chad, more Tracy Lucia and Myra sorry I'm going through this slowly. Nicole, Sue, Alex, Carolyn. Okay so I'm going to jot down these names. So that would be for the survey. Okay. And Oh, let me. Can you send out that survey before the meeting. Oh sure. Yep. Okay. Yeah, so everyone's emails address or do you want them to just email you. Yeah, that would be helpful just to be safe that. So even if you think that I have your email maybe just shoot me an email just so we can be safe. Oh, great. Yeah. And Maureen, your addresses. It's Pollack M at Amherst MA.gov. Becky is going to share share it on the screen so it's P O L L O C K M at Amherst MA.gov. Okay, Lucia. Okay. Lucia. Amherst. Amherst. I should look at the screen to make sure you're spelling my name right. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yep. So two L's and M. Okay, great. And so I'm still jotting down the name so bear with me. So John, Maura, Tracy, Myra, Nicole, Sue. Yeah, if you don't, if you don't know if Maureen has your email, please email her. Don't forget me. It's Mila. Yeah. Thank you. Be be be. Okay, Chad. Did Mila raise your hand? Yes, I had my hand. Oh, I see. Okay, great. Thank you. Sorry. Okay, great. So, so we're going to schedule that for next Thursday at one o'clock via zoom and I'll send. I'll send everyone a meeting invite and the zoom info and all that. And then we wanted to skip. So that's just again, we'll just be for the survey. And then we will be having monthly meetings for the working group. And we would ideally would like to maybe just have it the same sort of consistent. You know, a weekday and time. So let's see here is what we. I think, I think we might have to send a doodle poll for the first meeting I'm gone for two weeks in February so why don't we do that and we can, because I think it was pretty booked unless you want to meet without me that. No, we don't. We'll send some a few times to, and once we, you know, get all the emails for working group members. Okay, yeah, that sounds like a good plan. Okay, so yeah, we'll send out a, I'll send out a email to everyone. Thank you for recapping today's meeting. We have recorded today's meeting so I can include that. I can include the information about the loan modification program, and the information through Amherst neighbors, and I can include a doodle poll for conducting our next meeting. Plus the current survey maybe. Oh yeah. Yes, thank you. It's helpful. Okay. So, alright, great. Are there any questions before we wrap up. Okay, well, I thank you so much for such a wonderful engaging meeting. We definitely look forward working with you for this very essential and important project and We'll see you. We'll talk to you next time. So thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.