 Welcome to the Valley Advocate Podcast, featuring interviews that take us deeper into the people and happenings on the local scene. For more podcasts and a closer look at what's going on in the valley, visit us at valleyadvocate.com. Hi, my name is Dave Eisenstader. I am the editor of the Valley Advocate, and this is the Valley Advocate Podcast, our collaboration with Amherst Media. I'm here with arts and culture editor Gina Bevers. And we are here with Springfield attorney Tahira Amatulwadud, who is running against Congressman Richard Neal in the upcoming primaries. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you both for having me. Oh, glad to have you. That's great to have you. You're a big deal. The people are the big deal. I just become the face of the people. You had something that just came out today about, that is kind of just like cuts to like the very heart of everything about this congressional race is that people, I think you had said that they had criticized, you know, whether if you got elected, they'd lose all that seniority from Congressman Neal being in place in place so long. But you said that that really wasn't a problem because... That's right. So in the camp during the campaign and on the trail, some of the more critical comments came from people who knew enough to realize that one, he was on the ways and means and that he was a member and that if the house turns blue and he is still in office, then he stands to be the chair of ways and means. So people who knew that and were able to frame it that way would ask me, how do you respond to that? So it was pretty simple to me, but I needed to convey it to the people, which is essentially that ways and means is very important, but that if the congressman becomes unavailable for any reason, unavailable, unwilling, doesn't get reelected, life goes on in the first instance, life goes on. But let's talk about ways and means and what the role does. It's responsible for allocating funds. He's been on the committee since 2017 and our community has yet to realize any benefit from his status on that committee. Additionally, he has taken lots and lots of money and funds from corporations and special interest groups, which, according to our research, cuts and undercuts the needs of the people and the constituents. So when you look at the level of non sort of sort of the lack of production that he's had for the people already in that seat and what that looks like. If he becomes the chair, it looks pretty grim. Additionally, our community really is suffering. We have the lowest median income of all of the nine congressional districts in the common wealth of Massachusetts. We have higher than average unemployment. We have higher than average number of citizens who are not covered on health insurance. If you are in that role as ways and means, you would expect that your district would meet these different benchmarks of success and prosperity that are failing. And I'm concerned that as chair, we would continue to suffer and continue to fail. Yeah. And that's the first congressional district. That's Springfield area and Berkshire County and then some of a few other counties, Hampshire and Franklin and Worcester County. You got it. It's all of Hamden County, all of Berkshire County, part of Hampshire, part of Franklin and a few towns in Worcester County. You got it. It's 3,000 square miles. And when you look at the map, it's kind of shaped like an L, neighboring congressional district two, which is of course a representative McGovern seat. Yeah. And I guess as like a new person coming in, do you see that as being an advantage too? I mean, you're losing one thing. You might lose some seniority. Like what can a new person bring to Congress that's kind of based, you know, based on seniority? Yeah. I would suggest that the seniority that if we really look at it, the seniority is inconsequential or could hurt us if the wrong person wields the power. So number one, if the congressman is not sitting and the house turns blue, who's going to come up next? Who's in line for succession? John Lewis, civil rights icon. Right. Okay. Lloyd dogged of Texas. So from a national perspective, the country and the Democratic Party stands to benefit from that sort of a leadership because we know what John Lewis does and what he stands for. In the first district, the community benefits from me at the helm serving the citizenry and putting their needs first. So what do we get in a new representative? We get somebody who listens. I'm already spending lots and lots of hours and time on the road listening to the constituents reading and amplifying the needs of this community. And I'm not getting a paycheck. That's what our community deserves. And that's what they'll see from me as their congresswoman in Washington. So when you talk to constituents, when you talk to the people in every day, what do you hear? Oh, I hear now that the race is on and it's vibrant and it's alive. I'm hearing lots of enthusiasm, lots of excitement, lots of collateral positive impact, lots of engagement with people feeling like I can do that too. I can help. I make a difference. It matters representation matters. These are the things that I'm hearing that you could not necessarily anticipate the impact of running would have on the community. So we're already winning in that people feel alive and excited about it. Because I wouldn't, I don't think anybody would argue that over the course of the last nine years in Congress there's been such stalemates, such people running, becoming establishment politicians, people who aren't invested in making so much of a change as just staying and depending and relying on people to keep them in that office. And it's people like you who are saying, hey, this is, and it really does seem like a new day. It does. It does seem like a new day with all the social movement that's happening. People realizing that they're really tired. This is true. But I almost wonder kind of speaking like that, like why you would want to go into Washington after nine years, like you're talking about a deadlock and even before that kind of a lot of stuff that wasn't really great going on. Yeah, it's necessary. I have seven children, the youngest is four, the oldest is 24. My parents are hitting retirement age. And when I look at my parents' future and my children's longer futures, I realize that unless I roll up my sleeves and play an active role in how we shape it from a policy perspective, things look really dim for them. And if it looks dim for them, the children of a lawyer and my husband's a hard-working employee and a nonprofit, if things look dim for the future of my children, then they look even dimmer for the children of this district, unless they have representation that truly understands and values the people. So I look at this as an opportunity to serve our citizenry in a way that lets them know they have a champion with her finger on the pulse of the needs of this community. And coming in with a fresh face and a fresh start, hopefully we do have a blue wave and hopefully there is a new incoming class full of women with great progressive ideas that we can get to Washington D.C. and then we can impact change. We're not coming in beholden or saddled with debts that we owe or favors that we owe. We're able to really sit and talk about the issues and try to advance policies that matter. And that's what I'm looking to be a part of. I don't see myself sitting in that seat in 29 years. No, I have a job to do. My job is to shape policy, get our future where it needs to be, and then go to do something else, go back to practice and law. But this is not going to be a career. It is a commitment. It will be impactful. And then we'll hand the future over to the next generation that's ready to keep going. That's how I see things. I can honestly say I've never heard of politics. Anybody who's seeking a political office say that. It's ever. I think one of the real fights going on now in the Democratic Party, I wonder if you'd share your thoughts on is what's called the Bernie Sanders wing and then what's called the establishment wing. And there's a lot of talk about what that's going to mean for 2018 and 2020. And whether that means that Nancy Pelosi might have to step down as the speaker. And I just wonder kind of looking at that whole swirl of issues, what your thoughts are. There's so much to get bogged down in when you look at the Democratic Party. And what do I tell people? I was a kid when it started going downhill, when they failed to have a succession plan and bring in diverse people and ideas and fund students in high school and Democratic committees in high school and high end college like the Republicans did. The Republicans were really good about structuring the Republican Party and meanwhile the Democratic Party didn't do that. And that's why we've been sort of outplayed. And I can't take credit for that because I wasn't there. And I'm not establishment. That said, I feel it is a major strength in the Democratic Party, particularly when you look at the progressive candidates and elected officials that are coming in because those ideas tend to be more people focused and people centered. And I really don't like labels. Even in my practice of law when my clients come in and they say, I want full custody or I want this, tell me, let's move the label. Tell me really what the characteristics are that you want and let's try to achieve them. And I see the same thing even when we run for office and people want to say, are you more Bernie? Are you more Hillary? No, let's look at the policies and let's develop them for what they are. And let's not just jump on to language that just sounds easy and sexy and hashtaggy at the time. So I think we're going to see sort of a combination of policies, whether they're Bernie policies or Hillary policies. But I really believe that we're going to lead more so with the policies that serve people and put people first and label that the way you want. But that's where I see it going. And that's what I think the American people want, and particularly the people of the First Congressional District here in Massachusetts. And do you support Nancy Pelosi? I support a strong Democratic Party and whatever it takes to make it strong and to give it credibility, so long as Democratic Party recognizes and sees the need to improve, to bring in inclusivity and to advance ideas and policies that the people want. This is not the time to be tone deaf, but a turn of blind eye. And unless the Democratic Party does that, then we're going to keep losing. Yes, we're going to lose. Agreed, agreed. It's hard to determine who the Democratic Party is right now. That's right. Something the Republicans struggle with for such a period of time. And now the shoes on the other foot. That's true. Yeah, that's true. So you get out there and you align yourself with people whose ideas match yours and or whose ideas may not match yours, but feel like something you can get on the same page with and help to develop. And that's where I see us going 2018 onward. A lot, I mean, a lot of people kind of describe your candidacies kind of an uphill battle against an entrenched politician. How's it going? You know, you've been you've been at it for a few months now. You know, how do you feel like people are receiving you and kind of talk a little bit about that? Yeah. Yeah, we've been at it since December 19th and today is my birthday and we're already winning. And what does that mean? People like this race. People like talking about the year of the woman. You know, you just did a story on it. It's the current issue. It's the thing people are talking about nationally. So anytime I get a microphone where people want to say, well, what was the impact of Donald Trump's election into your decision to run? Or what is it like to be a black woman who's running for office? Because it's the thing to talk about now. We get a lot of media attention around that. But I take the microphone and I don't want to talk about me. I know about me. I want to talk about us. I want to take the microphone and talk about the people of the first congressional district. I want to talk about their goals for having jobs, economic prosperity, access to affordable health care and internet, and the feeling of being involved in their government in a meaningful way. And so for the first time in forever, those issues are making news because I'm talking about them. So we're already winning. We're already amplifying the voice of many people who feel marginalized. And that feels great. It feels great. I guess what do you feel like really are the most important issues? I mean, you mentioned health care and internet and stuff like that. What are they communicating to you? What are the people who you are meeting communicating to you? The most applauded issue? Medicare for all. People love that. People want it. I was in a meeting recently with health care professionals. And one of the providers said, I don't want to be over-regulated. It'll tie me down in paperwork and bureaucracy. And I said to him, well, we're going that way. So now is your opportunity to get involved in helping to shape what that policy looks like. But this is what the people want. And it's going to come. It's going to come. It's not if it's about when. And when I talk about that, regardless of where I am in the district, people applaud. So we are going that way towards the Medicare for all option. That's what people like. Every family also, it resonates with every family, the idea of dealing with addiction. That is very important. No one has the answer. It's a devastating issue to talk about. It's often very private. But when I say this is something we need to deal with, I'm not just saying let's talk about addiction and let's throw money at it. I'm saying we have to talk about the disparity in addiction and how white folks handle addiction and are treated with addiction issues one way and black and brown people are treated with addiction issues another way. And that tends to be a more punitive way. But what we need to do is have a heart to heart talk about why there's the disparity. And that's that that comes from a racial and social economic divide. Deal with it that way. Then go towards a clinical and compassionate approach and move away from the punitive models. And that of course gets into the issues of criminal justice reform. And that's what we need to do. So this district is about 83% to 88% white. And so for me to go out into the community and say this is how we solve this problem is the first time a lot of people are hearing it addressed that way. But guess where it works? Because if we dealt with the crack addiction with a model the way I just framed it, then we wouldn't suffer from the opioid addiction the way it is. Or and we wouldn't suffer in the first instance. And if we were suffering, we'd have an answer. So we have to step back and deal with that. Additionally, to talk about the opioid crisis, I mean, we have issues around policy and why we're not benefiting from good from good policy around pharmaceutical use. But also my opponent takes lots of corporate donations and contributions from big pharmaceutical companies, which I would not do, which would leave me free to sit down and have a meaningful approach to crafting policy that deals with all aspects of how of how medications and drug use is dealt with, which is what our people need. Right. It's not a secret. It's what we need. Um, you're going to be, I think I'm not sure exactly what the deadline is, but I know you're going to be filing a report soon saying how much money you have. So I mean, you're not accepting money from that source. Do you have any money? I mean, do you have anything in the bank? We are raising money. My treasurer is still crunching the numbers. This is not a conventional campaign. Right. And the people who are funding it are the people. And when we look at the conditions of the people, we've already said we have the lowest median income, higher than average. So these are people who are donating $25 and it comes at sacrifice in their budget. And that's because they believe that I am the representative who will speak for them and help to change the course of things for them and their quality of life. So am I going to report that I'm making millions of dollars? Absolutely not. But we are raising enough to meet the needs that we have and to keep the campaign strong and vibrant and to bring in the staff and the talent that we need. And nothing about this is conventional, but conventional has failed us. So I apologize for nothing with respect to how we're doing from an economic standpoint because that's a measuring stick that does not apply to us or to the people. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, no, nothing. Okay. Well, I'm curious like, you know, we just did the story about the year of the woman and a lot of the women that are running for lower offices are, you know, in towns that you're running to represent as well. And I'm just wondering what kind of connections you're making with those women. I understand that you know a bunch of them already. I know all of them. I know all of them. And it's been wonderful to be a part of this movement. I don't know if we've ever had this before in Western Massachusetts, but it's wonderful for me to send them an email or a message or a post and say, you go, you keep going. I'm proud of you because what is it doing? It's giving the constituents options. It's letting people know what the issues are from the perspective of the Kennedy who seeks to serve them. And I'm excited at the idea of becoming the Congresswoman for the First Congressional District and the right choice that our constituents have and who represents them on the state side. Like it's the best of both worlds for me. It is. It is absolutely wonderful. You know, I just want to ask from a black female perspective. You said you gave a very interesting number. 83% of this district is white. And it's really flipped around in Springfield. It's that community, Holy Oak Springfield, where it's really flipped on its head. So when you go out, what's the difference that you feel, if you will, when you go to say, gosh, Spencer, is Spencer part of, I don't know, and Worcester County? Parts of Worcester County, not Spencer. Okay. So you go to a predominantly white town. Like Shelburne Falls or something. Shelburne Falls in the district. And you're in Springfield where you live. What's that difference? What's it feel like? What is it that you, I would assume that your message never changes. But the perception of you changes. Yeah. How do you navigate that? It is interesting. That is a very interesting question. And it's real. How my message, first, my message does not change. Right. I deliver the same message and might share anecdotes a little differently depending on the audience so that it resonates with them in the appropriate way. What I always do is acknowledge that whether I'm in Shelburne Falls, or whether I'm in Holyoke or Springfield or Wilburham, we all have the same sort of goals and the same concerns. They manifest differently, but they're the same. And when I can deliver a message like that and draw the parallels about people's life throughout the district, I think that makes me much more an effective, incredible representative in my own campaign. As an African American woman, I've always navigated spaces that were predominantly white. That's not a secret. I've gone to law school. I've gone to private college. My children have gone to prep schools. And just so some of our worlds have been where we've been the only ones like us. So I think I have a really good handle on understanding such a diverse population from my own existence and birth to the places that I've been purposely placed in order to thrive, work, school, et cetera. And so I know how to connect. I know what the issues are. And I'm not afraid of difference and being different. And I'm not afraid of commonality and being the same and figuring out how to draw on those commonalities. Right. Yeah, Gina, you had a great editorial recently about kind of connecting with what was the wrinkle in time kind of through that new movie. Like, you know, just kind of connecting through, you know, the different casting of having an African American woman like in that role. And I don't know. I mean, I kind of think that there might be some parallels to like a congressional candidate running, you know, people seeing differences and similar. I don't know. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's about saying yourself through a different lens or being able to see yourself in particular places. And I think from that perspective, I'm glad that, you know, a person like you who's running in this in this district, in this predominantly white district, there are girls that will be looking to you and girls who might not have thought that I can be a political figure or that, you know, or even have the interest. But now young girls are so involved, too, in this whole and me, too. Also in March for Our Lives, this political groundswell, this grassroots groundswell that watching people like Emma Gonzalez, you know, be able to affect some kind of change in power that you've got. You're going to have girls who are going to really be looking and probably already do. Like they have a whole new, you know, vision on what they can do with their life. This is such a pretty phenomenal time for women. So that has happened to you? Oh, it already has. And as you know, the advocate had my picture on the front page. No. Were you an armor? I'm an armor. And other newspapers have had my picture on the front page. So what's starting to happen is there's a normalization of a woman seeking a position of authority and power. A Muslim woman. A Muslim woman and one who is black. And so it's already happening. I went to my son's school the other day. They go to school right over the border. But little fifth grade girl says to me, I saw you in the newspaper. Can you come to my lunch? Because you come to our school and talk to us at lunch. Because they feel like I represent them. I remember being a little girl and watching the Olympics. And they're very rarely being black athletes that were gymnasts or ice skaters. And being excited when they would come on. Because I felt like representation matters. So the world, the country is excited about the Olympics. And there's a sense of national pride. And I have someone who looks like me, whose hair might look like mine. The ponytail might have been difficult to manage and control. Just like mine. It matters. It impacts where you feel you belong in your society and in your country. And this race is doing that in ways also and in it. And it also speaks not just to black girls or to Muslim girls. But to all people. Everybody sees something in me or in my story that matters to them. And so when we talk about representation matters, you just never know what is going to do that thing that it does to your heart. When you see her on the front page of the paper. Have you experienced any Islamophobia through the campaign? Yeah, yeah. When strong women do strong work, there's always people that want to derail them. That happens. I need that t-shirt. When strong women do strong work. That's right. And you're like, expect derailment. That's right. Expect derailment. Yup. I told my team the other day, I said, what we need to do is we know what's going to happen. We know what people are going to say. We know what people are going to do. And we have to steal ourselves for that. Maybe we write it all out so that as it starts to happen, we don't feel like, oh my goodness, that really shook us. No, we turn to on April 1, 2018, we predicted this, this and that. What if people say things on the internet or they approach me or they do things that are just that feel weird or threatening. But that's okay, because it means that I'm doing something right. Right. Otherwise, nobody pay attention. Right. Right. Wasn't like, it wasn't a recently, I'm going to say this all wrong, but something like do harm to a Muslim day or something like that. Yeah, punish a Muslim day. Punish a Muslim day. Yeah. April 3. April, yeah. Insane. Yes. Yes. Yes. Flatly insane. It's real. It is real. It's real. Yeah. But it's okay, we're not going away. No, you're not. And through your law work, you actually helped to put somebody away for hate crimes. Yes. And you, I think I've done that multiple times, but there's one sort of high profile case maybe you could talk about. Yes. So some of my civil rights work that was some of the most fulfilling work that I've done was representing a community that had been the target of some pretty vile and violent threats. And while the Department of Justice had prosecuted the defendant who had made those threats to the Muslim community in New York, I represented along with a colleague of mine as interested victims, the community. So I got to be the liaison between the community and the Department of Justice, and that meant we observed the trial, we participated in the trial. And that was very interesting. And it ended up being a successful prosecution of the man. His name was Robert Dogger. And the trial took place in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee. So we were traveling and we made sure that justice was served. And the premise of the case against him had to do with the fact that he had targeted a house of worship. And as the child born into a family of Christians, when my parents converted to Islam when I was young, it was very, very important to me to not only stand up for a house of worship that's a mosque, but to also speak out against the desecration of churches when my grandmother loved her church and the desecration of synagogues. And so from 2013 to 2015, particularly this country had noticed an uptake in all kind of anti-religious sentiment. And I was there among great people advocating for awareness and pressuring the Obama administration for a proper response. So that was some of the work that I was very honored to do. Yeah, and it just reminds me, I mean, horribly, and I mean, all of these events that come from gun violence. And there's renewed talk, finally, about gun control. And I just wonder kind of where you see yourself in that debate and where you see Congress acting on that. I, when I listen to the voices of our youth and hear their cry for attention and for some sort of specific direction around gun control on a universal level. Because in Massachusetts, we have an attorney general who's been quite aggressive with respect to gun policy. My family, my husband, he owns firearms. I've trained to use a firearm because I was going to get my license to carry, which I haven't gotten yet. So I listened particularly critically around what policies we should have. In the first instance, I want to increase the age limit. We need universal background checks. You know what I do for a living as a family law attorney, I'm frequently dealing with cases that have aspects of domestic violence. So we need a registry that captures that people may, who have a history of violence need to be vetted properly. I'm less inclined to say, let's ban assault weapons without defining what an assault weapon is and what types of weapons present the danger that we're looking to save the kids and our families from. Sometimes you have accessories and characteristics of firearms that make them particularly dangerous, but they may not be called an assault weapon. So as a lawmaker and as a lawyer, I'm really careful to avoid the catchy phrases and to roll up my sleeves and look carefully at what type of policy achieves the goals that we are looking to achieve. Saving our kids and keeping them safe and more importantly, making them feel safe is our first and highest priority across all levels. And making sure that we do it in a way that is responsible is the most effective way. So we're still working on what that policy would look like, but it's almost like a homework assignment that you're really excited to be able to do because you know that you can just do the greatest job ever because you already know in your mind what needs to happen. You just have to do the research and continue the listening tours to fill it all in. So we'll be working on that and hopefully we'll be able to issue a more complete statement. But I think it's going to include a more holistic look at what's happening in our country it'll be much more than ban assault weapons because that just may not do the trick. Right. Yeah. So where's the party going to be on that? Right. I have an 11-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy who are already putting together the band. Oh, nice. Yes. They are going to perform violin, drum, guitar. So I don't know yet where. No, I'm dead serious. You know the music, you know what's happening. I already know. So I've handed over the entertainment to the kids. So what would your life look like if and when you win? What would your life look like? Yeah. It's going to change dramatically. It will change. But my children and I think about because when I think about that question, I think first about my kids and my family and where I'd be. And of course I'd be in DC for a significant part of it back in the district for another part of it. But my children are so good. They're so selfless that they saw their mother working full-time while going to law school, delivering a baby, breastfeeding a baby while in law school and working full-time because they knew that I was always working to provide them with a better life. And I have such a great support network. My husband's great. My parents are great. My brothers and sisters are great. And the children have learned how to rely on our family to help them. And they understand that this is important work and that once we win, they'll be able to hang out in DC and enjoy life that way. They'll be a part and they are part of this historic moment and movement. And I'm just not worried about it. I'm excited for them. I'm excited for them. Thank you. I'm excited for all of our kids. I really, I really am. Yeah. Well, to hear how much we'll do, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Our pleasure. Yeah. That was great. Thank you. Thanks for listening and don't forget to visit us at valleyadvocate.com.