 The X axis is the hourly rate of pay for contact time on the Y axis we have how much time people are spending, traveling as a proportion of that contact time. If you're on the bottom side of that line, I will show you, you're going to be paid above the minimum wage and if you're on the top side of that line, 11 pound an hour for their contact time which would be a pretty generous, pretty decent rate of pay for a domiciliary worker. But if they were spending 10% of their time travelling that would erode their pay, but they would end up at 10 pounds an hour. So they're still well above, not well above, but they're still definitely above the minimum wage of £9.50. Hopefully everyone can see that they started at 11, 10% of travel is dragged at average rate of pay down. If that same person was paying £11 an hour for contact time but were spending 25% of their time travelling, that erosion of the average would now bring them below the minimum wage. So they would end up on £8.80 an hour. So the question is where do care workers fit on this chart? Are they near the red door or are they near the green door? So to start with we can plot average rates of pay in the sector. So these purple lines show you the median rate of pay on the right hand side, that's £17.07 for domiciliary workers, and at the 25th percentile as well, so that's £10.09. The assumption I'm making here is that this is a rate of pay for their contact time. Like I said, I'm pretty sure that Ash, which is where this data comes from annual survey that has an annual score on this, does not really account for travel time. So that's the pay, but the question is obviously to know where they fall in this chart, how much are they travelling, and 20% is the average. So that comes from the Home Care Association, and I think it comes from quite a large number of data points. I don't know which provider, but they said they take it from a provider. So 20% is the average rate of travel. Now that will vary. Obviously in a rural area you'll have people spending much more time travelling in a city it might be less, but that's the average, and that amounts to 12 minutes per hour spent on a visit. So I think it's quite reasonable to assume, based on these averages, that there are a large number of workers on that wrong side of the line. So sitting around here. Now some of them might be just the right side of the line, so the providers might be getting it right. They might have just enough buffer in their pay, such that the travel time takes you down to the minimum wage, but I think there are probably a decent number where they're not quite getting it right and where that buffer isn't quite enough. Like I said, the problem is we don't know. I can't give you a hard and fast number. I would love to be able to, because no such data set exists. So clearly we both need to measure this better, but I think on an ongoing basis providers should be asked to record this information.