 Well thanks for staying with us. A bit of drama took place in the house of representatives when the minority leader, Ndudi El-Lumil, etched the house to demand resignation or sack of the Minister of Communications and Digital Economy, Issa Apantemi, for want backing activities of jihadist leaders and deadly Islamic sect. The speaker, Femi Bajabiamila however, overruled the minority leader, noting that the matter being raised had nothing to do with his privilege as a lawmaker. Joining us to discuss this is a political analyst, Achike Chouday. Many thanks for staying with us, Mr. Chouday. Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure. All right, let's get your candid opinion concerning this particular issue. It had the media, of course, the media space has been a gurg with calls for the Minister of Communications and Digital Economy's resignation. With what happened at the Senate yesterday, what exactly are your thoughts? I'm sorry, the House of Reps rather. Well, I think that we are used to seeing situations where it would appear that the representatives of the people do not give matters of fundamental interest to the people, where it appears they do not give the kind of attention that it needs. Obviously, what is going on today in the country is something that has called the imagination of a lot of Nigerians. And you see activities on social media, you see Nigerians waning on it. And you would think that when the matter gets to this level where a large majority of the population feels strongly about a particular issue, such as what we have on ground, that kind of sentiment, general sentiment across the world would persuade our political leadership to move in a particular direction. But it appears that that is not the case. And that's why we saw what happened at the House of Representatives where the speaker tried to, I mean, everything in his power to ensure that the matter that was brought up by Lumenlu was not given the kind of attention by the national, by the House of Representatives that I believe matters really as this should have gotten. So it's unfortunate, like you have said, everybody, this is something everybody's talking about. This is something that is on the minds of everybody. A lot of, I mean, so what Plasti is doing right now focusing on it is something that a lot of other media houses too have also been doing, pointing attention to something that the media believes is of importance to the people. And the people themselves have shown it in so many ways that this matter is important and should not be swept under the carpet. All right. We'll get back to you now, Mr. Archudelets bringing our other panelists into this conversation. Good evening. Many thanks for joining us, Dr. Sheto Lu. Does it really bother you that there was a federal executive council meeting yesterday and, of course, Nigerians have been talking about this particular issue for a while right now that is the call for the resignation of the minister. And when the minister of information was asked about the discussion, if it was discussed, in fact, he just said it was not discussed. What does all of this pretend? Well, I'm not, I'm not bothered. Why should I be bothered? Why should I be bothered to the government that has shown incompetence, has shown insensitivity to the grievances and the grievances of Nigerian people? Why should I be bothered by government that's shown to be nonchalant and lackadaisical, you know, through the agitation of Nigerian people? You know, it's obvious that the government has its preferences, you know, and it has chosen its preference. It's rare to find a state official resigning government. Why are we asking for a rarity in Nigeria, except that the new folks pull out there? I do not expect it in these of them. All right, thank you for your thoughts. Let's continue with this particular conversation right now. A lot of Nigerians have been talking about the screening process of ministers and, of course, other appointees in Nigeria. What does this really tell of our security apparatus that the DSS that should have done for a screening, as much as we had that this screening was done and it was overlooked, and of course, the Senate, what does it really tell about appointment into, you know, political offices in Nigeria? You know, we cannot conclude that the state security service is not due diligence. What if the state security apparatus had information about him, about its means to terrorist organizations, etc., which probably could have been submitted to the state? What if the state and many exemptee workmen did not act about it? What if the state didn't consider it sufficient enough to drop him for a particular appointment? So it is neither here nor there. We're not sure if the state security service did due diligence or not. It's not impossible state security service did due diligence. It's not impossible that state officials chose to neglect those findings. It's not impossible. We've been speculating too. But concerning the National Assembly, the process of ratifying appointees from the president has become a charm, and it's a charade of thoughts. It's become a comedy in Nigeria. When you compare it to the American experience, it's not a serious business. The process should sure we go and there should be free interview, investigation, kind of profiling on the candidates, about their backgrounds, about their demeanor and misdemeanor, about the family background, the role politically, and security reports about such individuals, etc. We work with witnesses in several screenings, a child's place. They're not so serious. And the National Assembly, the Senate and National Assembly do not give the impression that we're serious about a country. The legislature is not shown to be pro-people. It's not shown to be pro-Nigerians. And the National Assembly is not shown to be committed to protecting the integrity of the Nigerian state. The process, if you ask me, has been a charm. All right. Thank you, Dr. Chetou Lou. Back to you, our analyst, Ajike Chude. Let's talk about the moral thing to do here. Inasmuch as there's been so much shout about this on social media, and of course almost every discourse around Nigerians, another school of thought believes that it is irrational to be calling for his resignation. But looking at it, what's the moral thing to really do in the sense that he holds such a critical and sensitive position in Nigeria, where anyone could actually be at risk right now? What is the moral thing for the minister to do in the wake of all of these calls? Yes, thank you. If you allow me, I will just briefly touch on the last question you asked, which of my good friends there Dr. Chetou Lou has adequately also talked about, and that is the issue of nomination and the screening of candidates for appointments to the government. The reality is that in Nigeria, politics trumps common sense, politics trumps reason. Parochialism drives a lot of things within the polity. And so that is why we see the kind of result that we're seeing today. And you know, Dr. Patami is not the only one. There are so many other things that have been swept under the carpet on the basis of screening of some of these people. Of course, we have known also that when it comes to the issue of screening, when in the past we have seen that the pecuniary interest motivations also drive some of these screening processes, corruption. It's also driving some of the screening and the results of the screenings that we have seen. And so this is also a symptom of the disease that we have also been facing in the country. So that is at that level. Just like Dr. Chetou Lou said, there is every indication or a possibility that the DSS has done its job. But we know how these things go. Ultimately, it is the political decisions, not common sense, not the need for service that determines whether this will scale through the national assembly or not. Now talking about the moral, you know, possibly the moral disposition of Patami, I think the issues are very clear. First of all, when this matter broke, he denied it strenuously. He said it on the line. It was only on the strength of parts that emerged, the video evidence and audio evidence that emerged, or what he had already denied, that he reluctantly accepted what he had done and not gave reasons why he did it, that he was a very young person. The four-year-old person is not a young person who was holding court, you know, and then spewing fundamental or extremist views, religious views. It's not, I mean, from the amount of it that four-year-old person. It's an adult. You become an adult when you attend the age of 18 years. And then it's almost his age. There was almost double that of 18 years. So he knew exactly what he was doing. But the reality or the situation really is this. He says he's sorry and that he has, you know, stepped aside or stepped back from the disposition that he had when he was much younger. But the reality is that repentance is not something that, I mean, a man thinks he repents of something and you're not exactly sure whether he has actually repented. He's holding a very key position in this country, a very sensitive position in Nigeria. And then we have hard instances where it has been indicated that people who are not of Nigerian births, who are not Nigerian citizens have obtained national identity cards of, you know, the federal republic of Nigeria. So, and then in the midst of this insurgency, to which he has at a younger age, according to him, shown some kind of loyalty to, you know, you cannot accept, you know, you cannot. I think it will be full hard for Nigerians to accept the statements of regret with regards to maybe his repentance. The position is too sensitive. And so I think that the honorable thing for him to do is to resign that position. I believe very strongly. But then the issue, just like Dr. Shetaylou has said, is who are the people driving the country? What is the essence of patriotism and the essence of duty responsibility and obligation to the Nigerian state? The fact that we are where we are is really, I mean, as a result of the failure of governance and governance, you know, as a result of the disposition of the activities of the political elites in this country who have shown in so many ways that they are not exactly interested in the welfare and interest of Nigerians. So, I would have expected that at this particular point in time, a lot of politicians, especially those in government, this president most especially would have done everything to distance himself from somebody like, you know, Dr. Patamin. This is what is expected of the president. And because mainly, lastly, as a result of all the speculations and the suspicions surrounding even the disposition of the president, you know, with regards to either the headsmen, a lot of Nigerians have often accused him of being sympathetic to them. Even the Sogyansi, if you remember at the particular point in time, Boko Haram had some years back, you know, touted the president to be their representative in the possible, whenever, you know, a dialogue there, because who are muting the possibility of negotiation between, you know, Boko Haram and the Nigerian state at a particular point in time. And the president was touted then to be the representative of Boko Haram at that particular point in time. It was about a week later that the president dissociated himself with the group. So the pressure people have about the president is not good. It gives the, but this situation gives the president an opportunity to dissociate himself from Patamin by making sure that Patamin, the guest, Patamin to resign, and if he refuses to resign, to kick him out of office. This is what is expected of the president at this point in time. All right. Thank you so much. I'm Adyke Trude for your thoughts. We do appreciate it. Let's get our final words now from Dr. Sheto Luazui, a round of this particular discourse. With all of this now, what is the way forward? And what does it really tell on the fight against insurgency and terrorism in Nigeria? Well, if you ask me, I do not expect Dr. Patamin to resign. He's not been the patent. It's rare that state officials, and they are record that the former secretary was accused of power practices, you know, resign, but it's still rare. Well, the fight against terrorism, insurgency, et cetera, has been uncoordinated, has been unscientific. And if you ask me, what made his failure in this respect? Also, when the utterances of the sitting cabinet minister is suggesting that there are the individuals in the cabinet who are impotent to insurgents and terrorist organizations, and we suppose that the terrorist organizations or the terrorist groups and insurgents groups may actually be penetrating, you know, the state authority, which is unfortunate, or which will be unfortunate if this happens? Well, you did the moral. You had that question earlier about the morality, you know, of the issue. Well, you recall that politics in Nigeria is really based on morality. That's really a moral question about political actions, about political decisions or indecisions in Nigeria, you know, and the state officials are really pushing, you know, the moral or ethical question, you know, it's the question about morality rather utopia in Nigeria. We're not there yet. Okay. I wish that the minister, in the light of the evidences, you know, and the mountain agitations and pressures to quit the office. All right, thank you. One, to dust political pressure and two, you know, to show that it's so pretty about this authoritarian state. When you continue to stay in office, it will be a security threat. It will be a security threat. And most of the evidences are huge, you know. I'll complete on this note. The state action against insurgency, kidnapping, bad duty, et cetera, you know, has been lopsided. And it's not shown that state officials are well informed about how to do about, you know, proceeding, within the struggle, and how to contain the insurgents. We'll be asking the state officials appear to be short of ideas. All right. They appear to be short of ideas. And Nigeria is at the crossroads. All right, thank you so much for your thought. I'm afraid that Nigeria is defragmented. And Nigeria is on the verge of assuming a collapsing state. All right, thank you, Dr. Sheto. Look for your thoughts. We do appreciate it. Indeed, we've been talking about the fight against insurgency and terrorism, vis-à-vis the wake, the call for the resignation of the Minister of Digital Economy and of course, Communications, Issa Pandemi, and I guess they've been Dr. Sheto, Lou, and of course, Achiké Chouday. Thank you so much, gentlemen, once again. Thank you. Good evening. All right, we'll take a short break and when we return, I'll be giving my take. On the extent of borrowing, the government should focus on providing social services such as education, healthcare, security among others with the resources at its disposal while creating the right environment for the private sector to engage in businesses such as agriculture, industries, and transportation. And the extent of borrowing, social services such as education, healthcare, security among others with the resources at its disposal. Those are my thoughts for today. I am Justin Aka, the New Plus Politics Returns Again tomorrow.