 This is TWIS this week in science episode number 602 recorded on Wednesday January 18th 2017 live long because science Hey everyone, I'm dr. Kiki and tonight we are going to fill your heads with migratory eels menopausal whales and early Americans, but first Disclamer disclaimer disclaimer Throughout the ages mankind is sought to acquire many things land loot notoriety and the luxury of free time But in all of our pursuits, there's one that has made us most distinctly dominant in the world Our desire and drive to acquire knowledge and as we've acquired it We have a time shared it and that others kept it secret We have hoarded it in libraries and archived it online We created institutions dedicated to teaching what we have learned to the next generations of Knowledge seekers and we made these institutions free to democratize education We did this as a nation founded by educated people because we knew that knowledge above any other pursuit Would make this nation strong While the political talk has begun about Undemocratizing our education knowledge in the information age remains free And as we acquire it here, it will be shared with you as always for as long as you seek it We will help you find this week in science Coming up next Knowledge I seek, I want to know what's happening What's happening? What's happening this week in science? What's happening? What's happening? What's happening this week in science? That's science to you, Keen Blaire. And good science to you Justin, Blair and everyone out there Welcome to another episode of this week in science. We're now well into the six hundreds You know. Oh, yeah, just two episodes in a word. We're practically halfway to 700 at this point practically there. That's right. Oh Another week into January I was talking to someone today and they're like, oh, yeah, let's get and get something on the calendar for oh, too Look two Wednesdays from now. Yeah, February 1st, and I was like, oh my goodness perception of time Flows, flows onward to the sea like all the water that is rushed through California in the last week or so We are back again with more science science science news. I have a lot I've got a whale of a tail to give you pause Eels elucidated and calorie restriction Which get Justin? I've got even earlier earliest Americans from like way earlier than our earlier earliest Americans in fact Prehistoric pet rocks and a persistent infection Little TMI Blair, how is the animal corner shape? That was TMI. I Have parasites. I have worms and I have So gross spider silk Okay, that was actually the least gross of the box Stacking up there. Oh my goodness. Well, don't we have quite the show Planned for you all don't forget if you are in the Bay Area You can still get tickets if you are interested for the SF sketchfest Cal Academy of Sciences Nightlife where we will be performing live tomorrow night. What's that? Tomorrow night. Oh, I could have used a little more notice on that But tomorrow night the 19th we are going to be live at the Cal Academy Doing what we do best except maybe it's a little bit, you know More over the edge for our adult audience. I don't know. We'll see we will see but if you're interested you can go to the Cal Academy nightlife website and Check it out. You are interested. We hope to see you at the Academy And now on to the news on to my onto the news, you know, so we talk about Well, maybe maybe recently especially cultural differences Right, what makes people different? How much of the DNA is responsible for that? And how much Is actually other stuff going on to actually really make people say respond to drugs differently How why do certain populations of people respond to certain drugs one way while other populations of people respond to the same drug in a Completely different way. These are very important questions for Human health and so what Justin what? I want to guess Well, okay But I was going to get to it but go ahead. Go ahead. It's more fun if I guess before if I guess after it's kind of, you know Not as post hoc. Yes, exactly. Yeah I will say it's going to be the microbiome Uh, or or but there could be other stuff, but that would be my guess Well, maybe the microbiome is involved, but this study did not find that This is a study out of uc san francisco. I really like this study because it's we're going to be in san francisco tomorrow night Yeah, or I am players already there. But anyway You see san francisco they studied dna methylation and so we understand methylation is kind of this this annotation this slight external alteration to the dna that takes place that determines how genes Get transcribed and turned into proteins whether or not they get turned into protein proteins How much of them get if they get turned on to make a lot of protein or a little bit of protein or What exactly they're supposed to do so Lamarckian effect. It is kind of yes. This is epigenetics. This is the stuff that's on top of outside of the genes Things that affect your your genetic blueprint in real time as you live out of life on the planet interacting with it Exactly. So things like diet or stress or Stuff in your environment stuff. That's in the water stuff that you you know inhale in the air all of these things Can affect you and your body through your epigenome can change the way that you respond to things and this study wanted to examine whether or not there were specific signatures reflected In the in the epigenome of an ethnic groups culture and environment something that goes beyond the genetic ancestry And so this is a an open access article published in elife and what they were able to do is take a look at at data from a bunch a group of latino children and They were able to determine whether or not there was a difference in methylation associated with either Mexican or Puerto Rican Ethnicity and they determined that three quarters Of the epigenetic difference between the two subgroups could be accounted for by genetic ancestry So this is stuff that these are epigenetic signatures that are actually passed down from generation to generation This is like three quarters of it is basically this is Epigenetic genetic what you got you're stuck with it But a quarter up to a quarter of the differences might actually reflect experience practice environment and so this is one of the first times that we've really seen that there is this This social construct of race and ethnicity and How you live your life how you're raised the habits you have that may affect you biologically This sounds quite lamarckian it does right? Well, I mean the issue What's that issue here is whether or not these lamarckian? No, but whether or not these epigenetic signatures whether this methylation is something that goes on to affect subsequent generations And that's not necessarily That's not known. That's not understood yet. So we don't know how that actually gets Transcribed and passed down exactly. Well, but we have I mean we have seen cases of it in the past I mean, this is sort of how epigenetics sort of started to become a field Is that they would look at generations of oh gosh, it was like Norwegian or swedish farmers or something and they could track like the feast and famine times of prepubescent grandparents to health outcomes and the grandchildren and there were Direct connections whether it was a feast time or a famine time And so these these epigenetic changes have at least in the past Maybe not in this study, but in the past shown multi-generational changes But not necessarily. Yeah, but then again Maybe that gets passed on to the grandkids, but then you go back to you know Uh the same baseline again if you're if you're talking about those Grandkids grandkids. It may not be a continual effect. It may continue to reset. So Yeah Yeah, it could and so, you know, there are there are questions. So environmental factors if a mother smokes while she's pregnant We know that there are health effects there on the offspring, but are they Are there epigenetic changes that then influence the risk for further health problems? And this is this is, you know, this is kind of what they're trying to tease apart here And so they they looked at 573 children of these self identified ethnic groups And discovered that it was basically this 25 percent at least a quarter is This you're in fire your environment or these kids environment And so the researchers say like a standard family history Ethnicity is associated with disease for both genetic and environmental reasons If your dad or mom had a heart attack that tells doctors a lot about your risk for a heart attack Part of that is genetic But part of it is that your lifestyle is influenced heavily by your parents lifestyle Your ethnic group is much is like a much bigger family. It's partly a matter of genetics But it also reflects the environment of your broader community So Once again, we hear that it's nature and nurture folks nature and nurture, right? It's it's actually it's three. It's nature nurture and nichy. Uh, which is often Awesome All right moving onward now that we know, you know Our environment can affect us, right? How about we go on a diet, huh? It's january. It's time for diets. Yeah, well, you know If you restrict your calories At least maybe as an adult not as a child, but as an older adult it might help you live longer Yeah, so uh, we had reported a couple of years ago on these two studies that took place one from the university of madis of Wisconsin madison and one from the national institute on aging both of them Looking at primates, um to determine how caloric restriction affects Longevity, you know, it's just a lot of rodent studies lots of fruit fly studies Not so many primate studies. And so these two studies were supposed to be The big telling studies to let us know All right, if we calorie restrict ourselves, will we be able to live longer? And then they came out and kind of Had opposite results like one group their monkeys lived a really long time the other The other they didn't really live a long time, but they had good health And so it was like, oh, maybe it won't let you live longer, but you'll have good health Another one was like nah, and so they had these conflicting outcomes and so It's time to go back to the drawing board And these two research teams have now published in nature communications the results of their revisiting of the data Going back and taking a look at the data from almost 200 monkeys from both studies To see what actually happened and to put it all together and tease out all of the uh, the things that affected it so First they found out the two studies the animals in the two studies had their diets restricted at different ages So one of them they started younger and another they started when they were a little bit older And so uh, their analysis finds that eating less is good when you're an adult So older older primates humans even As an adult if you restrict your diet it could be beneficial, but not for younger animals Probably because it does make sense. They need all the yeah, they're using so many calories building a human And then uh, they also and so uh, this was this was different from other rodent studies because rodent studies had found that Ending earlier is is better Or ending or starting caloric restriction earlier is better and then in the second second point is that In the old onset group and this was the group of monkeys at the national institute of aging The control monkeys actually ate less than the control monkeys at the wisconsin group and this lower food intake improved survival compared to The Wisconsin control so so this is when they could eat whatever they wanted The the wisconsin monkeys ate more Yes, and um part of this was it's been colder Maybe that's why I was on a colder. Yeah, absolutely Part of it was also what the diet was made up of and so the cheese lots of cheese in wisconsin The institute of aging monkeys ate naturally sourced foods So they had like real food and the wisconsin monkeys had processed food with a very high sugar content There we go. And so the the wisconsin monkeys were actually better than the Study on diet. Yeah And the one thing we're not going to control for Is what the subjects are eating? Yeah, just calories So, uh, yeah, so they identified there were also sex differences in the relationship. So females were less We're able to bear the effects the bad effects of diet and increased fat and insulin sensitivity. So Um putting on weight was worse for males than it was for females and this could be translatable to humans as well Uh it with incidents of diabetes um being higher in men than in women and cardiovascular disease et cetera And it could that could have something to do with just women's physiology for carrying children Right that that might be something that our bodies are just Made up to be a little bit heavier Yeah, oh absolutely Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So anyway, um, these are not humans remember, but Clothe primates. Yeah, nice nice monkeys. Good little monkeys. I mean, it sounds like you're saying that dieting is good for you It's Yeah, it's different But it's uh this caloric restriction and it's something we've been covering for a pretty long time Where it it seems to increase longevity and in this particular Uh This particular study. I mean, we haven't worked really this level with humans, but with primates Uh, it it does seem to be It does seem to affect aging so it could Impact longevity and health right and I think about this study is that since it was done on monkeys That's something that if you do this with humans There's so many confounding variables if somebody's dieting they might also be exercising There's so much else going on So this really allowed you to isolate specifically calorie restriction not the type of calories Not it coupled with exercise not any of these other things. It's all just less calories of the same food Yeah And which if we took this show on the road 24 7 I would likely live forever Oh, because you'd never eat We just we would stop it like all night restaurants and you and all you'd order would be a cup of coffee This is like this is like the refrain from Blair every time we've taken the trips. Don't you eat? Don't you ever eat? Yes? Yes Hey guys, Justin doesn't eat food turns out it turns out He's a vampire doesn't eat food. Nope. I mean some people naturally Don't need to eat a lot other people I with your phases right now. I'm really enjoying winter time and eating. I'm really enjoying. Yeah We need to insulate it's cold out here on the west coast for once I may be naturally doing this experiment to some extent. I don't I don't like count my calories or anything But I don't like do multiple meals a day. I'm good with like dinner And that's it like I don't need a breakfast or a lunch. I'm getting a good dinner I'm good till tomorrow night's dinner Generally, I can't imagine that I eat three square meals a day Well, maybe I'll get there someday That doesn't sound like any fun. No It's a blast. I don't know Yeah, I mean If I had to calorie restrict had to calorie Restrict for the rest of the of my foreseeable life No, I would yeah good But it's not something, you know that Something I'm aiming for doing Cheese is just too delicious Because cheese and bread or I mean And bread and wine chocolate and wine. Yeah, and all of those They're like I might have I maybe I'm you know my my meal might be 4 000 calories Like I might not actually be calorie-restricting at all You know and and something that we haven't determined here is whether or not calorie restriction affects different ethnic ethnicities differently That's it. We'll never get to the bottom. Then does your microbes? Does you got microbes care? Do they need like Multiple meals a day or are my gut mob crabs just like no, we're good. No carry on Just keep going like we don't even know what to do. We're still digesting. We're Who knows? Hey, I got a question for you What when Did the first humans? arrive in america Was it 9 000 years ago 10 000 years ago 13 000 years ago 14 000 years ago Wasn't it 14 000 years ago? None of the above Wasn't it 14 000 years ago? You're both right. So 14 000 years is kind of the agreed time frame And it's a time frame because they found The clovis amounts they've dated those to 13 000 years. There are a lot of outliers though There's there's a lot of sites in in south america, especially Which they seem to be dating potentially to earlier than that There's the meadowcroft rock shelter site in pennsylvania That's been dated to between 16 and 19 000 years ago that this area was inhabited But often these outliers They become controversial and remain in the sort of debate and review Stasis Because we have these solid agreements that 14 000 years is probably when everybody came over So they keep looking for ways to tear down the older dates Now this is according to university The monterellis department of anthropology and they and when I say they're trying to tear them down It's because you're making a a more extreme claim And so it comes and it's an outlier of the data. There's lots of points that show 13 000 year Clovis mounds from different areas So when you have a single outlier It requires a lot of evidence to have it accepted Which is as it should be and there's multiples of these as I say There's a lot of these in south america and and and that one I referred to in north america, but this is a canadian uh university monterellis department of anthropology has made a their recent finding is putting that date to 24 thousand years ago What What they made their uh discovery using artifacts from blue fish caves Located on the banks of the blue fish river in northern ucon near the alaskan border. The actual site was excavated Uh between 1977 1987 Based on radiocarbon dating of animal bones research archaeologists back then made the then and still now bold hypothesis That human settlement in the region dated as far back as 30 000 years at the time of the trans bearing straight footbridge trek Uh when I was you know when they when I first became aware of this they were talking like seven to nine thousand years ago Right, that's when they were sort of initially putting this estimate and that's what it would have been back in the late 70s So saying 30 000 years. It had to be wrong. It just had to be That's silly canadian The absence of other sites of similar age archaeologists Jacques or Jacques sink mars who's did the original hypothesis His whole thing remained controversial in the scientific community and that's why most people haven't really heard Much about it. Uh, and there wasn't a whole lot of fringe ideas don't get so much coverage Yeah, and he did some radio carbon dating stuff back then but you know, there were thousands and thousands of bone fragments and he hadn't isolated and uh and and shown evidence of human activity in the mammoth horse bison and caribou bones that they were finding in the case enter Uh arian berk professor university montreal's department of anthropology her doctoral student loryan borjean And a contribution also from a doctor doctor thomas Hick hyam deputy director of oxford university's radio carbon accelerator unit Uh, they looked at approximately 36 000 bone fragments that were pulled from the site and preserved at the canadian museum of history Uh, let's see who got stuck with this. It looks like it looks like the doctoral student loryan got stuck with uh two years of looking at bones Uh her comprehensive. She loved it Oh, absolutely. What a fantastic job Uh, what they found was a small percentage of the bones that they could find Uh traces of what can only be human activity series of straight v-shaped lines On the surface of the bones were made by stone tools used to skin the animals says berk These are indisputable cut marks created by humans These marks appear in distinct areas on the bones their characteristics of the stone tools In spots that are used to remove hard to remove meat and tendon And these are unlike natural markings or animal nine marks And they found them and these these rooting Carvings over lots and lots and lots of the specimens, right? Uh, and you know, we're talking maybe it's like 30 or 40. It's just it's a like one or two percent Uh, and one of the caves one of there was two actual caves that they were looking at one cave Some of the markings in the radiocarbon dating came back to about 12 000 years ago as recent ads, right? Uh, and in the other a lot of it there were a lot more markings and they were a lot older So they submitted these bones for further radiocarbon dating the oldest fragment a horse mandible showing the marcher stone tool Apparently used to remove the tongue Was radiocarbon dated at 19 650 years Which is the equivalent of being between 23 and 24 000 years ago There's a discrepancy here and that's because when you do radium radiocarbon dating The actual age Uh, is an uh of the bones is typically older than the radiocarbon date because the the Fossil or whatever it is the fossilization process as it takes in you get more and more carbons getting taken up over time So but they have a set amount they sort of it's a known factor and they know If it's this many years ago you add this many more years, right? It's a sort of back. Anyway, they've got a formula for this So the initial 19 650 gets pushed back to 23 000 to 24 000 years of the actual artifact Being there adjusting for its radiocarbon, uh uptake Uh, quotey voice our discovery confirms previous analysis and demonstrates that this is the earliest known site of human settlement in Canada Well, it's not not just Canada Burke. It's all of the americas, but yeah, Canada also And it shows it was inhabited in the last eight ice age But it was at the height of the ice age like this spot Is in the the highest upper limit of that ice age And they think because there wasn't this is before people started traveling down into the americas Uh, they may have kind of been stuck there or may have found a kind of sweet spot In in this glacial age in these caves to still hunt and find game Uh without having to venture too far from the warmth of the cave So I have a question if this dating is done by tool marks on a skull Is there any chance That it was not done by hominids That's a fantastic question. So they don't know and this is this is I think was this one of my predictions that I do this prediction this year You would find evidence of neanderthal in north america I think I might have done that one. Um That's possible. That's totally possible and that's something that can't quite be ruled out Uh, except that Except that if you if you take this radiocarbon dating, uh, and you look at where it is And I mean if you look at where this inhabitation period is of thousands of individuals They expect it must have been there at this time And then as deglaciation takes place it is immediately followed by the spread Of of peoples to south america along the coastal routes and along Uh routes in which that the deglation was taking place So it's a pretty direct clear line from there was a people here The glaciers went down the ice went down and then they traveled and now they populate north and south america Okay, so there's other things pointing to It making sense to be that and and if you start to take some of those outliers like the pennsylvania rock shelter site that's 19 000 but it's so far out of Uh, the rest of the data that it's sort of looked at skeptically And pinpoint a period Directly before that Now you that now the even those outliers seem to be falling into place For the population of the americans But what if it's not even a bipedal mammal Well, no, so so the marketing we were talking we were talking about yeah Yeah, we were talking about the evidence of monkeys using tools Using tools, but not you I mean this is these stone markings, uh that are these cuts that are consistent with using stone tools on bone It aren't being inferred for the first time in these fossils. This is a pattern these patterns they have seen Dating all the way back uh to uh many thousands of years before as we Now reach the americas before we reach the americas. I mean these are this isn't so it's the pattern and type of the scratches that pretty clearly point to Yeah, you you know where it's hard to remove the bit of meter tendon And and etching away with with direct marks and and these v-shaped marks are also sort of uh Sort of apparent that their man may because they're not like Just a bunch of random cuts next to each other that are forming a v. It's a straight One line here. It's a straight one line in the other direction to sort of sigh into and remove Uh bits of flesh to feast on Well now that we're talking about removing bits of flesh for a feast, you know what time it is. Oh what time is it? I think it's time for blairs animal corner Little What you got blur, oh I have some parasites you guys speaking of flesh Yeah, uh, so parasites we talk a lot about parasites and how they're bad. You don't want to parasite. Do you do you? No, but recent research from uc berkeley A full-on review looking at parasites and climate change Indicate That if we lose our parasites we could all be in big trouble Previous research has shown that parasites are up to 10 times more vulnerable to extinction than their hosts And in this new study they looked at parasites Likelihood to face extinction due to climate change Compared to other taxonomic groups And they found that losing parasites would could potentially destabilize entire Ecosystems by increasing other diseases altering the food web or changing host physiology So they found that these parasites and hosts with variable internal temperatures Parasites of large-bodied hosts host specific parasites and parasites with complex life cycles Were most likely to be super vulnerable to extinction from climate change so this is the very first comprehensive review of how climate change May affect parasite biodiversity Specifically from the point of parasite conservation not looking at yay. It might kill some parasites So instead looking at actually what may be the result of this. I'm I'm confused. Yeah Parasite conservation Yes, that's correct. So I mean seriously Seriously parasites are part of a working ecosystem kind of Yeah, and without them This might not be true for all parasites But most I would say most parasites are some sort of function in their ecosystem Yeah, that's for instance, uh toxoplasmic gondii Functions in that it keeps um would be stray and feral cats Uh living in a house A woman I would say more that toxoplat Talk willing to take on 13 to 20 needy felines so toxoplasmosis actually drives prey To have erratic behavior This could be beneficial to an ecosystem because it reduces the prey population and prey populations are likely to Explode past caring capacity and cause a collapse. Absolutely. So this could be a Just to look at t gondii. It's uh, it's a population control Um in other situations it could have to do with water clarity Um, there are lots of things that parasites can give to us that we may not realize And that's kind of the point of this study was looking at Parasites that have very important roles in ecosystems, whether you realize it or not, and looking at their climactic tolerance and They this study predicts that parasite extinction um would be clustered in particular ecosystems and This is a call to arms from more parasite research, believe it or not from this perspective Not the perspective of ridding yourself of parasites But from the perspective of seeing what function they play in an ecosystem and what their vulnerabilities are So it's I think it's an interesting point of view that we don't talk about much on the show just like last week I talked about how mosquitoes were pollinating Right, which is some the great we need more pollinators especially these are dying And we've talked a million times on the show about how mosquitoes serve no purpose And they should just go away, but if they're pollinators, that's huge Parasites these are things that maybe we want them. We want them to just Go away But if they do that opens the door to all sorts of other issues One of the things mentioned in here was that without parasites other diseases may surge ahead and cause more damage So there's also yeah, there's also um people who Tried to attempt to treat immune response issues autoimmune disorders with uh with with parasites with hookworms or some sort of because that they actually They do something in the body and they promote induction regulatory T cells And inhibit the function of antigen Uh, I think so so I mean I've heard that I think we've talked about this on the show before So there's you know, there could be certain Diseases that uh, they can that may present themselves because we're not Carrying a load of parasites that used to counter them I mean we might find this is much like the microbiome like there's certain diseases that That seem to be a problem of modern man And it's only because Ancient man was full of parasites and they were there through evolution and they count they were beneficial They counteracted something in our environment or or something in there our our own uh Deficit in our immune system or something. Yeah Well, and I had a biology professor who all the time would say a good parasite keeps its host alive A bad parasite hurts it. So that's that's something else to remember, too Is by definition a parasite is not trying to kill animals They need you more than you need them. But there is an interesting Interesting paragraph in here Saying that some estimate that up to 70 percent of all animal species are parasites Making parasitism the most common consumer strategy on earth And parasites account for a significant portion of biomass and up to 78 percent of food web links in any given ecosystem So are they just talking about children? And they say the the presence and diversity of parasites has also been suggested as an indicator of ecosystems With a low degree of human degradation So when humans come in and disrupt the ecosystem you lose parasite number parasite diversity and then you have um like large Dominant species or the abundant species become more abundant Yeah, and that's where this um This mentioned earlier of parasites being up to 10 times more more vulnerable to extinction than their host comes in is that it they definitely are they're vulnerable and we think about wild spaces we think about wild ecosystems and habitat And the food web is real guys Everything's connected everything serves a purpose no matter how small and it's a fine Web of connections And when you remove some of those connections sometimes the web can stand and sometimes it cannot Sometimes those connections are so fortifying to the web that it all fall apart So this is kind of reminding us of the fact that even parasites serve a purpose In wild habitats they've evolved to exist on this planet where they do for a reason so Speaking of gross creepy crawly things. Let's talk about roundworms Let's talk about sea elegans worms and Teenage You know like the roundworm he's 15 years old He's looking to move out of his mom and his dad's house. He's like I hate you guys and he slams his door No Yeah, I don't want to I No, no, well Scientists at the socket institute We're studying roundworms And humans their brains And the difference is between adolescent brains and mature stable adult brains that in itself should tell you something They are As mature and stable as adult brains and adolescent any but So looking at roundworms Roundworms brains are pretty different than human brains. Uh roundworms only have about 302 neurons humans have almost a hundred billion But there are similarities in the way our brains work And because there are less neurons scientists can actually study The roundworm brain easier. They can isolate specific neurons and More accurately map what's going on So they already know the entire roundworm neuron anatomy and functionality. So from there in experiments, they can Interpret a lot more than you can from a CAT scan on a human. So They were looking at sea elegans and they were looking at their response to stimuli And they found that overall The adolescent worms have different food seeking preferences and abilities And they are less efficient and less competent at finding food And they call it ambivalence the way these roundworms were acting so What they did is they put diacetyl which is buttered popcorn smell And it's found in a lot of foods that we eat and a lot of foods that the roundworms eat And they Put some of this food some some food with this smell in the center of a dish and they Put a neutral odor on the other side So they put the worms in the middle. Sorry They put the the buttered popcorn and food on one side and they put a neutral odor on the other side Then they watched the way that the worms moved toward The buttered popcorn smell Adolescent worms meandered took their time. Some of them never made it To the food adult worms went straight for it. No nonsense and The collaborative researcher Um, Laura Hale said it's like the younger worms are angsty teens To watch their behavior. It's as though they say. Yeah, I know I'm supposed to go over there But I just don't feel like it So they tested other smells that were known to be appealing to adults. Um, and adolescents again, they kind of meandered around and then when They used a repellent odor Everybody fled at the same rate meaning The worms smelled the same. They're smelling abilities and their ability to recognize bad smells are essentially the same so Some things happening in their brain that's making them feel less motivated to go straight to the smell that they want and this research indicates by looking at specific neuron firing in their brain and then also comparing it to studies on humans their belief is that The neurons firing are different and they're actually kind of more scattered. So In adults, uh, they had A very select group of neurons firing consistently, but in And the end more strongly even in more subtle concentrations of the smell but in The Adolescents the firings were kind of all over the place. They weren't as well clumped and they were less responsive to lower concentrations so actually they're thinking that What's actually happening here is that the adolescence brain is more plastic It's less set in the way that it works and what it responds to and so The They haven't learned what they like yet. Really. They haven't learned what they liked They haven't decided they had their brain hasn't figured out how to fire in the most Succinct efficient way yet because it's still Essentially learning which kind of reminds me about how they say that the adult brain doesn't stop Growing and maturing until 25 28 whatever research you read, right? But but it's kind of based on that is people are adults at like 18, but they're not They're really not Yeah, absolutely and and just just to be just to be fair There's some 70 year olds sitting around chuckling going What are these kids talking about? Do you think they're adults? I'm just still growing up. Yeah Yes, because they know what buttered popcorn smells like and they know when they want it Yeah, I would also guess that there is you know, there's the learning curve of the neurons responding to things You know, you have the neuron response You discover an organism discovers that the smell is associated with this food source. That's awesome And I really like it so next time the neurons are going to fire more strongly more efficiently It'll make it'll get better with time but then those that Don't figure it out are going to die Because they're not going to get to the food So they're going to starve so you have a weeding of The unfit brains. Yeah, the adolescent brains that are just never going to develop, right? Yep survival Yeah It's what if I just don't like buttered popcorn God something else to this life than this What if I don't want to follow in your steps of running to buttered popcorn? Else out there. There's an old wide world out there. It's not all about buttered popcorn I'm going to prove it Yeah, so one of the other researchers said Instead of merely being rebellious teens both humans and worms May just be staying flexible to adapt to an unpredictable world. It just might be optimistic too Flexible Well, I hope everyone out there stays flexible. Well, we take a very short break and uh You know, we're gonna be back in just a few moments. This is this weekend science Stay tuned for more fantastic science news An hour into what was supposed to be a quick show Hey everybody, I want to say thank you to so many people for snapping up the 2017 calendars That Blair made these calendars are amazing and we are Down to the last four. I think we have four calendars left So they may or may not be there if you wanted to get one But um if you got one congratulations because these calendars are fantastic They're great. We're down to like four calendars left. 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Justin So This is a great story What separates us from neanderthals we shared so many characteristics back then it started to say we were much different at all Perhaps you remain truly Even to this day very similar to our neanderthals Because it turns out one of us used to have a pet And as a geeky luditude that pet was Not your typical modern pet Though in the mid 80s There was a fad that swept america You get for decorated pet rocks some stores even sold them fuzzy hair and googly eyes already glued on You could buy a rock Googly eyes. Yeah, they would have them like up at the counter. You'd be like punk rock and rock Now And international this is a true thing. You guys don't remember this. I know I know. I'm laughing at the pun of the pet rock punk the uh an international group of uh, uh, sainty sainty researcher type people Has discovered a brownish piece of split limestone in the site of crecia that suggests neanderthals 130 000 years ago collected the rock If we were walking up and picked up this rock, we would have taken it home says david frayer a professor emeritus And anthropology who was part of the study. It's an interesting rock. He says exclamation point, uh, was mine Uh finding is important He said because it adds to the recent evidence that neanderthals were capable on their own of incorporating symbolic Objects into their culture This rock was collected about a hundred years ago from a crappina the site crappina neanderthals site, which is items preserved from in the natural history museum in zagreb, crecia Where in recent years research team has had time and access to re-examine them davarok radovic Created in the crecia natural history museum was the studies lead author and frayer was the corresponding author Same research group was widely recognized back in 2015 covered on this show When they published in plus one about a set of eagle talons from this same neanderthal site that included cut marks And were fashioned into a piece of jewelry. So this site, uh, ancient as it be shows artistic leanings or cultural Uh iconography of some sort marks these folks But the same so this the cave where this was found The bit of is is a site with sandstone So that this is limestone rock is not from this cave In fact, they find that it was from several kilometers away possibly there's other sites in the Area, so this rock had to be found somewhere picked up brought back to the cave and there was no Chipping on it. They weren't cutting with it. They weren't smashing it. They weren't fashioning it They apparently just liked the look of this rock cool yeah It says uh, the fact that it wasn't modified to us It meant that it was brought there for the purpose other than being used as a tool fray says Look at rock also caught researchers eyes many inclusions black lines on it stood out from the brown limestone Maybe this they think is why the neanderthal it caught the neanderthals eye and it took it home uh, so yeah Neanderthals aside from uh, all the other wonderful things we've been learning about them Could appreciate a good-looking rock they like drinking just just for just for its symbolic Uh capacity of like an octopus tending to its garden The neanderthal collects its fancy rocks All right I think the only thing that could have made this story a little bit better is if that rock had a fossil in it Yeah, and then you know then then it was like oh neander anthropology Would have been born but just just a neat looking rock Just a cool rock the neanderthals liked But this is also 130 000 years ago, uh, you know, I mean early early that year old ago ish humans were were sort of discovering uh, interesting artifacts and starting to collect things but uh, it seems like the neanderthals were just a bit more advanced earlier in that Go neanderthals we learn more and more about them And how much I mean really the that's the interesting part of it is how much more advanced they were As we get more and more information than we've ever given them credit for Yeah, well, I mean we didn't have anything to credit them with initially too, but there was a very large sort of we're modern human And so anything older than us was brutish by nature had to be We were having and I guess you can excuse it too is not just sort of number one We are number one. Yeah, I think we can excuse the way a little that too is that we were also looking Uh, as neanderthals were being discovered we were looking for a link between man and ape So we you know our assumption Lineage-wise may have been to make it more ape-like or brutish or animal-ish In in that in our early concept of time frames of evolution But now we understand that there's there was a much longer development and experiment that led to mankind In this, you know, even 130 000 years ago It got long ago and in the journey that we've taken no Well keeping to other animals it's not we've entered this This wondering how animals do things right? How do we move forward? Let's move forward to killer whales Rock collecting neanderthals two killer whales Did you know In the world animals that we know of Only three Go through menopause Do you know which three animals? Go through menopause. Well, since you said you said you had a killer whale story I guess that's one of them And the third is a short finned pilot whales. So two species of whales what and one species I would have gone ape Yeah, go through menopause and so there's been a huge question. Why do humans go through menopause? Why do we why do women lose their childbearing capacity? Well, why do killer whales lose their childbearing capacity? Why do these short finned pilot whales Do the same? What is going on? To lead the lead females of these three species of the entire animal kingdom that we're aware of To stop bearing children so What a new University of sterling out of the uniting vetted kingdom And also university of exeter in the united kingdom looking at killer whale populations They found That so they know that killer whales live a really long time after menopause But then they also have Elephants who don't go through menopause and also live for a very long time. So what's going on? They looked at 43 years of data on two pacific northwest populations of orcas and in orca families The sons leave the pod so that the families the social groups are basically are known as pods and there can be Many related and unrelated individuals within a pod. However, males tend to Leave the pod and go find other female females and other pods to mate with and Males die at around 30 years old The mothers and the daughters They stick together and they live together and they all usually live for Long long time, although the females stop producing when they're around 30 or 40 Hmm. Yeah, so killer whales actually live can live about as long as humans So we're killer whales the the subjects of the stories that we've talked about about why grandmas exist Um, yeah, yeah, yeah possibly so yes, and this is what happens the mothers The mother that's part of this story is the mothers Um, stop having children their daughters still live with them their daughters enter productive age And the mothers Become grandmothers and help to rear the daughter's offspring similar to what happens often in human society as well So what they looked at were birds of different Uh throughout these 43 years of data collection at the birds what calves were born So 161 out of 525 calves were co-generation Births in about 31 percent of the babies died and in these cases according to the science news article The older mother was most likely to lose her calf before it reached 15 years of age And the mortality of older mothers offspring was 1.7 times that of younger mothers And so what the researchers report in their current biology paper is that it's this cost that You've already had one offspring and your daughter is starting to go into Uh reproductive age and maybe has a baby and if you have a baby too You're basically going to be having your own baby with no one helping you to take care of it and potentially helping out your daughter as well So the grandmother is taking care of two generations Below her and it's this high cost Which may have driven the evolution of menopause because if you're 1.7 Times if the the mortality Of your offspring is 1.7 times greater Maybe that's enough to push you into the realm of just not having offspring anymore The cost is too great It's not worth it to you. It's not it's You could die in childbirth Whereas if you help out your daughter those are still your genes that you're helping your genes exactly Yeah, so it's the um in the uh another researcher In the article says that he thinks it's a richard connor from university of massachusetts and dartmouth says He thinks it's a cool study because we usually think about these kinship issues in terms of helping behavior Not competition and so what's going on here in reality is that you know, there's competition for food for resources also and so the um The daughter and the mother are trying to Provide for their offspring at the same time and the the daughter is probably more likely to get food for her offspring than an older mother also So so it's just a combination of all of these factors that lead to menopause making sense It just it seems like we see some of these factors in a lot of animals. We see long life. We see reduced Uh resources we see family units but having all of those things Kind of in one big perfect storm means It makes sense to have grandma help out and not reproduce anymore Right and if grandma can help out by you know going and Showing her daughter where there's a bunch of salmon or helping them find a lot of salmon for them to eat Then the baby's gonna do a little bit better And the researcher on this paper says This is what's his name darin croft? says that Human families aren't we're not exactly like killer whales, you know where it's like the suns go off and the daughters stick around with the moms But we our society our our our social groups are organized around the provisioning and sharing of food and so maybe there is something to the the The cooperation the sharing of food the resource provisioning that in that has led to Reducing conflict read because of reducing competition And increasing the likelihood of menopause So maybe Maybe human menopause has something to do with it the same the same story that killer whale menopause does but Find it fascinating humans killer whales and pilot whales Short from pilot whales menopause nobody else Wild What's up, Justin give me another story Oh, uh, is it that time again where I go on about persistent infection? People often get sick from a type of illness that they are then Protected from if they you know are introduced to it again or it's introduced to the system again Some of these infections like chicken pox Small number of microbes persist in the body a long time after the symptoms have gone away and the infectious part of the Infection has gone away these microbes can reactivate Is waned with age or illness and the disease can resurface So most of our attempts to treat these sorts of things are based on complete sterilization and eradication And in reminding me sort of somewhat of the parasite story Uh researchers are now looking at this and they believe that Might actually not be a good thing to completely remove an infection Because persistent infections those that have small amounts of microbes that still stick around for a really long time Even though they carry a risk of reinfection with the waning and the aging Also, uh, sort of keep the immune system primed To prevent another infection uh What are you looking at that seems crazy to me Because It's they tell you over and over and over and over and over again. Take your complete course of antibiotics. Don't We're not we're not suggesting to do something other than that Okay, I think you need to clarify. I'm clarifying right now Uh, yeah, it's not necessarily that. Um So these are because you just told me to leave an infection Yeah, um, so okay, so here's what the effects of infections though. Those are ones that are they're they're in there and You don't normally get rid of it with an antibiotic. You can't get rid of it with an antibiotic Yeah, it just sticks around no matter what So if they were looking at the leishamania I'm I'm unfamiliar with this leishamania The group parasites that cause ulcers on the skin can affect internal organs as mass estimated 250 million people worldwide are infected with this parasite It's only really found in tropical areas Uh, 12 million have active disease. So 12 million people are are in critical suffering There's another 250 million people who are infected disease can be disfiguring even fatal Once a person is infected here. She's protected from getting sick a second time. So Long-term infection confers with it long-term immunity You got infected with it. You survived the initial infection And now you're kind of immune to it. You're not going to get it a second time unless It's completely eradicated from your system In which case you can get the really critically ill portion of this disease again So people are uh, they harbor the parasite at low numbers for years until they recover um The persistence may lead to you know, okay So they did a study in mice that showed that completely clearing the parasite can Make the animal susceptible to another about going back around getting another getting the infection all over again Studying mice researchers used flash up markers to distinguish different types of mouse cells and found that them that most of the parasites live in immune cells The parasite lives in an immune cell that is not only an immune cell. It is an immune cell capable of killing the parasite Yet despite this You know sort of wrong place to house yourself The parasites appeared normal. Uh, they were normal shape size Furthermore, the parasites continued to multiply yet The total number of parasites stayed the same This time went on They continued to multiply the numbers remained the same uh, this is Uh, one of the researchers called it the jimmy hafa effect It couldn't locate the body. Uh, we were unable to show directly the parasites were being killed But some of them must have been dying because the numbers didn't go up even though multiplying was still taking place The immune cells that house the parasites are responsible for killing those very pathogens Inactivating a more robust immune response in this process the ongoing multiplication and killing of parasites The researchers believe underlies the long-term immunity associated with persistent infection Uh, let's explain why people typically can't get sick from the same pathogen twice But it seems as though the immune system was almost like parasite husband draining um This infection like we're going to keep a sample We're going to keep it limited to this size And as long as we've got it We can spar with it just enough to be on the lookout for you know, it was sort of like its identification marker Like this is what we're looking for if you see this outside You go out there and kill it these ones are there. Okay. It's like a little Pathogen zoo that we've created here so that we can get up close and friendly you can look at it through the glass But if you see this in the real world run or fight you got so usually scientists designed vaccines to Uh get sterilizing immunity trying to kill all the bugs So there's the Beverly one of the researchers involved But what you really need is protection against the pathologic consequence of the disease not necessarily sterilizing immunity for some of these organisms Solid long-term protection may come at the price of persistent infection and as we were sort of talking about like I almost felt for a moment that we had the same story. This is this parasite is a microbial parasite. This is an infection story But it seemed to really kind of fit almost theme Uh verbatim what your parasite story was earlier because they're part of the ecosystem It's part of the immune immunology the immune system's Ecosystem to have these microbes present So that they can be more robust and defending against them in the future Right they serve as like training weights to help them be strong enough to fight Also, don't do that. Don't do training weights. Don't Bags to your ankles. It's really bad for your knees. Okay Yeah Yeah, I mean there's a there's a huge question there Do you get infected? I mean if you get infected with something do you keep the infection? Uh, well, and here's and here's the infection and I hear oh you might get it again, and it'll be worse Yeah, and here's where here. Do I think you could draw that line? This is uh, the uh leshmania or leshmaniasis Yeah, leshmaniasis If if you contracted leshmanium and assistus, uh while visiting the tropics Probably safe to just completely eradicate it from your system But if you caught it and you are in the native area where this is persistent Uh, maybe you don't totally clear it. Maybe maybe the the benefit of your immune system being um Ready for another encounter Outweighs getting rid of it all together. And so it's going to I think that's I think that's sort of the dividing line between Which strategy you use this is something you're likely to see again Or is this something that it was like a one-off? vacation mishap Yeah, then there um Then there are others so like in the in the beginning you mentioned, um So there are lots of microbes that can cause these persistent infections and so Like herpes virus is one Uh chicken pox is another, you know and when and when you get rid of chicken pox as a child There's the possibility or or you get chicken pox as a child There's the possibility of getting shingles as an adult And so there are these, you know, different these different sides to the infection Um, and how your body will react to it. Yeah, fascinating. I didn't even think of herpes. So yeah herpes now it prevents you from getting herpes Herpes prevents you from getting more herpes I don't know if that's actually true. So don't If you already have herpes the chances you come attracting herpes Is as you already have I guess that's immunity Of a of a sort it will affect it does affect your immune system for sure long term yeah Yeah, interesting questions interest these are interesting questions. Um, so Let's talk about eels for a second before we come to the end of the show I can't let this show go by without discussing it at least for a moment. Let's let's get real about eels Okay, let's get real real about eels so, um, european eels eels have been discovered To migrate and european eels usually i mean they're they're found in rivers and creeks At least they used to be found in rivers and creeks in great abundance. Same thing here. We've got the The sucker fish up the up the columbia river What are those called? anyway They're they're good food but They only found adults and they never found babies So what are these eels do? What are these real eels do? They're really on a tour to go meet and have babies and so I was discovered in 1922 Danish biologist called Johannes schmitt He discovered that there is a the sargasso sea It was a massive swirling gyre in the north Atlantic ocean, right? What's the gyre? gyre I have no idea what that is. Well, it's it's just a spinning a big slowly spinning Well, yeah, but you think of the world as being like super fast spinning, like in your drain as water goes down. But this is just more of a a rotation point. A gyro gyro gyro gyro in the North Atlantic, the Sargasso Sea and discovered that this is from Europe to the Sargasso Sea. This is where these eels have been going. They journey to the West to the Sargasso Sea and they mate and they hatch their eggs. And then the Gulfstream carries the eggs back and two or three years later, ta-da, more eels in the rivers and streams. Thank you. And so they thought, yes, one migration, kind of like salmon, you spawn, you grow up, you're birthed in a place and you go out to ocean. And then you come back to spawn, that kind of a thing. They thought it was just a single, easy migration, but. There's new, there wasn't really any evidence to support it. And so recently, some researchers got together and this is pretty cool. They have they've been looking at eels, tagging them. And they've got projects that are called the Codacy and the Eliad. Oh, my gosh. Talk about funny puns. Yes, but they they finally had tags that they could use to tag eels to find out where they went and when they went and what happened. And so they tagged more than 700 large female eels. And if you think of eels, just as those long, wonderful fishy fish that they are, they're also slimy. So could you imagine to catch the slimy little slippery slip out of your hands? Not easy to tag them, right? Yeah. Anyway, over 700 were tagged and then they tracked them. So when the so these tags logged environmental data and then when a tag's battery died, it detached from the eels because the eels swim like 200 meters under the water. They swim very, very deep. And so the tags detach and go to the surface and go peep, peep, peep, peep and relay their GPS information. So by satellite or end up getting drifted, drifting back to shore for collection. And then their GPS data can be taken off of them so that, ta-da, you have a track of where these eels have gone. So they discovered that not very many eels actually made it out of the rivers to the ocean. So out of over 700 tagged eels, 87 collected the tags were collected beyond the coast, 87. So less or around a tenth, a twelfth. And then a lot of those got predated once they got into the ocean and none of them made it past the Azores. So what they're finding is that these eels are taking a really long route. They're not just like, super migration, let's go and swim really fast and spawn and get it all done. They're kind of taking their time. Like there's some fast swimming eels, but most of them are kind of slow. They're taking their time and they're not doing it in like a one season go round. So they're thinking that a lot of the eels don't actually make it to the first spawning season after they leave the rivers and streams. And that maybe it takes two or three seasons for them to even get to the Sargasso sea. So these eels that they thought were just like keep them jarring around. Yeah, they thought that, hey, they're just going back and forth super fast and doing their spawning and blah. Nope. No, they're not. They are not. And so the researchers propose a hypothesis that maybe there's a mixed strategy that some of them go quickly and some go slowly. And so there's potentially different eels with different. I guess, excitement about breeding. Whether or not they want to get there quickly or slowly. And so there's the alternative of the eels that leave too late or don't go very, very fast, might just not succeed in spawning. Never. Anyway, eels migrating. And nobody really knows anything about them. You know, a little bit more now. We know very slightly more about them, but it actually it's it's funny. It's like, OK, 1922. Hey, we found these eels in the Sargasso sea. Let's make up this story about the eels and their breeding life cycle. And we really don't have a lot of evidence for it at all. And now we finally have evidence and it kind of makes the picture a bit more confusing. Yeah, and it raises more questions. It raises more questions. Guess what? More research projects, folks. Yeah, I mean, if anything, I guess what we might learn from it is that it's not. Wow, there's a bit of chaos to the to the breeding. A bit of chaos, which we which you don't expect to see in something that's, you know, evolved and been around for really long time. You expect to be able to track down the parts of it and have nothing relied on chance or current or sort of random placements. But yeah, you know, all of us, there's a little bit of chaos that leads to our eventual result. Well, a little bit of chaos in the eel world, the real world. Blair, tell me about spider silk. I talked about spider silk. What else could you possibly have to add? Oh, my gosh, just you wait. Just you wait. Five years work in an interdisciplinary team of scientists at the University of Nottingham has found that they can make antibiotic, synthetic spider silk. Whoa, whoa. Antibiotic, synthetic spider silk. So chosen molecules can be clicked into place in soluble silk proteins before it's been turned into fibers or even after the fibers have been formed. And so the process can be easily controlled and more than one type of molecule can be used to quote, decorate individual silk strands. My favorite part of the story is how it all came together. It was at a Discipline Bridging University sandpit meeting five years ago and a chance meeting between professors provided to be the start of this five year project. Dr. Goodacre, who heads up the spider lab in the School of Life Sciences got up at the meeting and showed the audience a picture of some spider silk and said, I want to understand how the silk works and then make some. And then another professor came up to him and said, I think my group could make that. And suggested some interesting tweaks. And now they've been able to adjust the silk proteins in all these different ways. And that includes antibiotic. The really great application of this is that spider silk actually used to be used in medicine a long time ago back in the Civil War era. They actually would wad up spider web and try to close wounds with it. And actually, there's a lot of opportunity to use spider silk for that. Wound dressing. Yeah. Yeah, for wound dressing. Absolutely. And also for tissue regeneration. It's actually it can serve as a scaffold for cell growth. So all of those things with a kind of time released antibiotic component could be a huge boon to the medical field. And it's all from antibiotic spider webs. That's cool. So those people need to talk to the people that I talked with last week talked about last week and suddenly will have kilometer long antibiotic spider silk. Yep. Indeed. So they need another interdisciplinary sandpit. Put it all together. Also the best material for creating an elevator to space. If they could actually get it to work. But no, no, no spider silk. I don't think so. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Space elevator. We haven't talked about the space elevator in a long time. Do people even talk about that anymore? That one's kind of gone away for a while. Yeah. We just find out you'd like Willy Wonka. No, no. Kind of like that only with hot air balloons and a real line cable that then creates launch platform and low orbit, which requires less fuel and so. That sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Have we done it? No hot air balloons. Is it time to close out the show? We're just a bunch of bags of hot air. It's time to close out the show. It absolutely is. I would like to say thank you to everyone who's watching. Thank you for watching. Thanks for those of you in the chat room for chatting. And thanks to our Patreon sponsors. 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Thank you for all your support on Patreon. And if you're interested in supporting us, you can find information at patreon.com slash this week in science. Also remember that you can help out simply by telling a friend about Twist, our next week's show. Once again, we'll be broadcasting live online at 8 p.m. Pacific Time on twist.org slash live where you can watch and join our chat room but don't worry if you can't make it, you can find our past episodes at twist.org slash YouTube and twist.org and we are going to be having an interview about nothing. So it's me? It's going to be me on the show? No, no, no. Oh, no, it'll be Justin. We're going to be talking about nothing. The meaning of nothing. Nothing in physics. What is nothing? My head hurts already. We're going to be talking about Blair's love life and my finances. Boy, nothing. But no. Hang out and don't forget tomorrow night Cal Academy of Sciences. January 19th. When is that? Tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. That's going to be tomorrow. San Francisco, California Academy of Sciences, Nightlife, SF SketchFest. We go live at 8.15 doors open at 6 p.m. You can find information at our Facebook page, twist, facebook.com slash this week in science. Thank you for enjoying the show. Twist is also available as a podcast. Just Google this week in science in your iTunes directory or if you have a mobile type device, you can Google Twist for Droid in your Android marketplace or simply this week in science and anything Apple market place. If you are dying to know more information about anything that you may have heard here today, show notes will be available on our website. That's at www.twist.org. What's that website? www.twist.org. Like TWIS, like this week in science. www.twist.org. O-R-G. Yes, for organization where you can also make comments and start conversation with the hosts and other listeners. Or you can just contact us directly. Email Kirsten at kirsten at thisweekandscience.com. 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Science this week in science this week in science this week in science it's the end of the world so I'm setting up the shop got my banner unfurled it says the scientist is in I'm gonna sell my advice show them how to stop the robot with a simple device I'll reverse all the warming with a wave of my hand and all it'll cost you is a couple of this week is coming your way so everybody listen to what I say I use the scientific method for all that it's worth and I'll broadcast my opinion all over the air this week in science this week in science this week in science science science this week in science this week in science this week in science science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what I say may not represent your views but I've done the calculations and I've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just better understand that we're not trying to threaten your philosophy we're just trying to save the world from Japanese this week in science is coming away so everybody listen to everything we say and if you use our methods to roll and I we may rid the world of toxoplasma got me I this week in science this week in science this week in science science science this week in science science this week in science science science I've got a laundry list of items I want to address from stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness I'm trying to promote more rational thought and I'll try to answer any question you got how can I ever see the changes I seek when I can only set up shop one hour a week this week in science is coming away you better just listen to what we say and if you learn anything from the words that we said then please just remember is sorry can science that's Wow this week administration decided Yes we can science because science this week is scaredациan science yes we can science yes we can sign this week in science this week this week in science week in science this week in science One hour a week show, we just finished. Now it's the post show. You are going to be able to play music. Oh, yes. Tomorrow? Let me make sure I have it on my telephone. Okay. I know I have it on my computer. Okay, that's good. Because we can, I don't think we need it on your phone. If we have it on your phone, that's a good backup. I'll also bring it on flash drive for the people's, but Ed, quit. What? Hey, this? No, I have it all. All right. Great. That was a good show. Longer than I expected it was going to be. It was getting like the talking and everyone's like, oh, we'll just talk about the story. Let's keep talking about it. But sometimes it's interesting. It is interesting, I know. It's interesting stuff out there. So tomorrow, where's Justin? Probably the everlasting question. Ed, PC is much easier typing. So, okay, so I'm trying to see what picture on Twitter. Dale Poco. Oh, this picture? That picture? On Twitter? Thanks, identity four. I don't think I'm in a women of science picture. Identity four says, I like it when you guys talk about science stories. I don't like it when you don't talk about science stories. It's perfect, perfect. Oh my goodness. So I'm tired. I still have to pack. My child fell asleep though. Look at that. He finally stopped wiggling around. He was wiggling. He was like a sea elegans. He has so much movement in him. And it's not moving towards the buttered popcorn, unfortunately. And other scientists. Ooh, we have some scary mouse stories tomorrow. That is good feedback, right? Dictal, what, what, what, mouse story? We both have scary mouse stories. Oh, do we? Are they different stories? They're very different. Yours is about eating. And mine is about sex. Awesome. And I don't have anything for tomorrow yet. But I'm not finding something between that. Dude. But I got a hard out. I got a hard out because I got to finish working on a thing. OK, so let me tell you, before you go, we're going to have to keep to time tomorrow night. Because we only have 40 minutes for our show. I'm going to bring two stories. Yes, two stories. I'm bringing three, but I'll drop one beforehand if we want. Yeah, I have stories I can drop. Not that I want to drop, but that I can drop. And then I have a number of stories for the end of the show that are basically just going to be like little blurbs. But I can drop them if I have to. Don't need to. I'm excited about one of my stories, though. I'm excited. I'm excited about a lot of my stories, actually. I'm really excited about my quick story for the end of the show. I have to get more excited about the other stories I brought or find a new one. Yeah, that happens a lot. I'll check tomorrow morning. Make sure there's nothing breaking. And if there isn't, then I'll dive a little deeper into my stuff. I'm doing this story because I feel like I have to. And then I find something last minute I'm like, I like this better. Yeah, I love this one. Identity four, you're hilarious. That's right, Justin has to wear a muzzle. No, I'm going to have a timer. I'm going to use my phone. Wait a second, identity four. We've gone down and we've broken down minutes of the show before. And it has scientifically been sussed out. That you talk way more than both of us combined. But I actually utilize less of the time that we are on air than my counterparts. This does not sound like science. This is true. This is we did this. No, we have not. We did a whole breakdown of the minutes of time that were being used on the air for this, that, the other story. And I was keeping the time. No, no, no stories. Sure. The question is time on the clock, your voice versus Kiki's voice versus my voice. That's the question. You guys spend more time talking than I do. No. I will not believe that. It's absolutely true. But I will say, we did fine in Baltimore with the Timers. We did really good. Timers help. Timer was cool. Yeah, it works really, really well. Because I could also glance over. and I would have a question I would wanna ask and I would see we had 30 seconds left and I was like, well, I'm not asking that question or I'd see we had like three minutes so I could ask the question. And it just, it was nice because I didn't feel anxious about slowing things down because I could see where we were. Yeah, no, I think it would be handy to have a timer running. Yes. So, but I gotta go finish this thing. I'm gonna share this. I'm digging this thing and working my hand. Oh, 8.15 showtime, Kiki. We're in the terrace and we have 8.15 p.m. showtime. So if you know how Wi-Fi works there, let me know because that's where we're gonna be. 8.15 p.m. in the terrace and Oak Tech, looking forward to you coming. That'll be great. Yes. Are you from Oak Town, Oak Tech? Oh, so Justin, you gotta go. I know you wanted, you muted yourself. Yeah, you have to unmute yourself, friend. You muted yourself. You can't just do that. You muted yourself. I was saying, I interrupt more just because I'm trying to get a word in edgewise. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right. Do I need to pull up that study again where people thought that men were speaking more in a meeting or that men were speaking equal time to women and they were speaking 80% of the time. Right. And then when women and men were speaking equally, everyone thought the women were speaking 70% of the time. I'm telling you, we went through the numbers at one point and it turned out I was not as is often. It sounds like the numbers were based on stories, not on the amount of time you were speaking. Not on, okay. So for everyone out there, just for information, if you're watching right now and you're wondering if you can watch our show at the Cal Academy tomorrow when we go on, we are going to try, we do not know. We're going to try to live stream, but I do not know if we will be able to make it work. We will not have an ethernet connection so it will depend on the wifi we have and the devices that we have to be able to do it. So we are going to try to hack something together and if we can, if I can have a hangout running in the background of my computer as I'm doing, have the run sheet up, then great, then we do it and we can do it from my laptop maybe or maybe we do it from a phone, maybe we periscope, maybe we Facebook live. I don't know how we're going to do it. We don't have any idea. Chances are it's gonna be. I will tweet, I will Facebook message, I will try and get the message out as best I can. If any of you pick up the message as to whether or not the live streaming is happening, please share the information so that other people can know as well, that would be very helpful. If it becomes a lost episode. But I will be, but this device here, this device here is getting a clean audio feed of the show. So even if you do not have video, there will be an audio version of the show. It'll just come out a little bit later. There will be no lost episode. Yeah. Knock on all the wood. My big track order. Oh yes, Rob says just run the ethernet cable from my house. Yeah, that should work. We only need about four miles, I think. How far can you possibly be from high speed internet anywhere in San Francisco at any given time? Victor, you're gonna be on a bus late at night. Well, if you're able to watch and we're streaming, I hope you can have some enjoyable bus time. All right, I got a hard out again. Good night, minions. Good night, Kiki. Good night, Blaire. Good night. Talk to us tomorrow if you have any issues or anything, Justin. I don't anticipate anything. Okay, but you're gonna be here between 2.30 and 3. Well, okay, so the only issue. Oh no. In Canada. Whoa, oh, Canada. The only thing that's gonna slow my progress is I'm gonna be at the mercy of the 80 in the weather. The freeway speed will determine, normally I can make the drive from Davis to San Francisco in about 35 minutes. No, you cannot. Well, I mean, given that there's no traffic. I've made that drive so many times. The fastest I've ever been able to make it is an hour and 15 minutes. Oh, no, I've got that blown out. Door to door from the interior. Noe Valley. I think last time I went down there, I made it from here. Actually, it was more than 35. It was like 45 minutes, right, Blaire? I was like, I'm leaving. And then it was like 45 minutes later, I was like, really? I'm here. Yeah. But, you know, it's gonna be rainy. It could be traffic delays. I'll be leaving at 12.30. I'll be leaving slightly before, about that time. Yeah. 12.30? Yeah, actually. That's the point. Maybe a little earlier than that. Yeah. Great. So it should be noe. Fantastic. Yeah. It should be. Great. Not again. I'll see you all tomorrow. Where are we going again? The Cali Academy. I know where I'm meeting yet, but where is the... It's the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park. Oh, we haven't been there for years. I know. Is this the first time you put that together? Huh? Never mind. I don't like pay attention to all the detail stuff. That's... Like where we're going. What we're doing. My whole focus is I gotta meet up. I gotta meet up with Blair, and then Blair will drag me to where I'm supposed to actually be. Yeah, well luckily all three of us will be together at 2.30. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. All right. 2.30. Good night, Justin. We'll see you tomorrow. Good night. He better have disclaimer in two stories. Yeah. Well, you can always write the disclaimer right before. The stories he can't do right before. I mean, even that. I mean, it's a live show. You wanna have a decent disclaimer, a lot like a... Yeah, yeah. Doppin' in the head. Well, I mean, the one in Baltimore was good, and he wrote that right before. That's true. He's full of surprises, that guy. He is, I will agree. I will agree with that. Surprise, surprise, surprise. So, you remember Josiah Zainer? He is a DIY crispering himself. Oh boy. Why am I not surprised? Oh my God. So, I feel like he has some confounding variables in his body at this point. I'm gonna show a video that he made. So, he has, I'm gonna screen share, and the great thing is, is there's not really any audio other than music that goes along with this video. But he has his blog, so if you go to, if you don't know, yeno.com. But his blog is basically JosiahZainer.com. And so, he's created a video for Homo sapien mutagencis. Cracking me up, Josiah. Put it on his head. What is he doing? He is putting different formulations. He's doing genetic engineering experiments on himself. That's a tattoo gun. A tattoo pen. How can he do multiple experiments on one arm? I don't know. He's separated by them by pen circles. He has a messy garage. Oh, you missed him curse right there. Oh, there's his cat. That's it. What? Oh my. I don't know. What I posted was, I'm on his Facebook post. I wrote, wow, wow, wow, wow. I'm going to make some popcorn. I'm just going to go make some popcorn. I'm going to sit here and eat some popcorn. I'm just going to watch what's going to happen. Oh boy. He's like, what if I fiddle with my biology some more? What could go wrong? I mean, it is an interesting idea and kind of the subject of a book that I just read that's coming out in April. Synthetic biology. Genetic engineering. The future is now. Now. No. Right. It tells like, is this a joke or just nuts? No, it's not a joke. He is, yeah, he's actually kind of trying to come up with some protocols. So he said, at first I only thought about it because I imagined the project is purely theoretical. I studied and wrote up a feasible protocol and wanted to post it online but to see and maybe use. I dug deep and figured out the best place for insertion into the human genome seemed to be this H11 locus in that one could deliver a CRISPR package in two separate viruses. UCMV-driven, SA-Cas9 and U6-driven guide RNA in an AAV serotype, serotype dependent on the cell type as they have different proclivities with a viral titer of 10 to the 11th or greater, you can do injections or intravenous infusions. The more I read, the more I understood how this could actually work and I became interested in trying to use CRISPR on myself. But that seemed drastic and kind of stupid to try and make permanent genome edits on myself. But maybe I could use all the stuff I learned about studying CRISPR and try to transiently and non-permanently modify my own cells. And what I read, it would only last a few days or weeks at most. I started to work on this part about a year ago and since then I've explored a number of different techniques to express non-human proteins. GFP, which is a fluorescent protein, RFP and others in my own cells in my own body. I've been documenting with video recordings that I want to share so that others can learn and experience what it is like to push the cutting edge of science. So yeah, he's been crispering fluorescent proteins into the cells of his skin and his arms. All right. Yeah, exactly, Whiskey Renegade. He was engineering his skin cell DNA in different spots on his arm. Yup. Yup. Okay. Yup. Okay. Blair, you're just... Okey-doke. So it's, I don't think it's a joke. It's not a joke, Tiktel. He is, Josiah is as serious about... Well, he was super serious about it. We interviewed him. He is, he's super serious. Yeah, he is as serious about this as you can imagine. Like he is not a joke. He is interested in pushing the boundaries of DIY genetic engineering. That's, it's all about biohacking. It's all about the DIY aspect. So garage science, kitchen science kind of stuff. Yeah. Interesting stuff. I mean, he definitely does things that I would never do. I mean, technically, we experiment on ourselves all the time in various ways, you know? But we're not good about controlling our variables when we do that. Right. And so he's going about doing this in, you know, in a controlled scientific manner. So it's, you know, there's the people experiment with their diet all the time, people experiment with alcohol, people experiment with exercise, people experiment with sleep, people experiment with sex, you know? It's like medicine. Medicine, I mean, drugs. We're constantly trying things out. Yeah. Yeah. But he's just going about doing this in a way that is, it's fascinating. Like I said, I'm gonna make my popcorn. Eat my popcorn. And just watch it. Yeah. A little bit of a mad scientist. I would say he's a little, he's a punk rock scientist, I think. An anarchist scientist. And that he doesn't like the organizational, hierarchical organizational structure of science. He wants to democratize science. He also likes to skip steps, I think. Yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. All the experiments that we do, that was the point to tell is that we don't control experiments on ourselves. But yeah. Here he is. We think, oh, you're doing this crazy thing, but he's actually doing something in a controlled scientific manner, as opposed to the rest of humanity who just runs and goes, blah, you know, no controls. Just, I'm gonna try this and see what happens. I don't feel too good. Maybe I'll do it again. What did I eat? What did I eat? What was it? I should probably eat more ice cream, right? No, I don't think we did the story about a woman with horse blood replacing her blood. No. Or maybe we did. That was, that would be a long time ago. I don't remember that story. I don't know. Yeah, strengths. This is more like body modification as opposed to permanent genetic modification. Yeah, body modding. I'll shove needles in my eyes so I can see more colors. Hey, Blair, have you tried that? No. Good night, teacher. And especially considering my aversion to eye stuff. I'm not gonna do that. Honestly, one of the only things keeping me from getting LASIK eye surgery is the fact that you have to be awake and they take a scalpel to part of your eyeball. Nope. Hey, look, you're gonna see it coming. Yeah, none of that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. All right, I'm gonna go. I'm very upset that none of my plans for technology for tomorrow's show are working out the way I wanted them to. But you know what? We move right along. We'll figure it out. I downloaded Periscope on there. I downloaded Google Hangouts. I downloaded Mevo if it shows up before you leave. We'll figure it out. It's so funny too, because I can see exactly where the Mevo is just across a bridge. I can see it. Yeah, see, I have a package that I was supposed to get today. It's in San Francisco. Right? But it got delayed due to weather or something. And now it's, and now there's no delivery estimate. But it's in San Francisco. Yep, that's what, that's my packages for two days. Oh. It's delayed due to weather. They're like, oh, delivery trucks can't leave today. You know what the ridiculous thing is, though, is that I have been receiving Amazon packages the entire time. Yeah, me too. The next trucks have been driving around. I even saw a UPS truck drive right on down. Are they delivering me my packages? No, mine are delayed. No, I see those trucks. I see them driving. They're driving the streets. Guys, stop talking about eyeball injections. I will have to leave. I will literally leave if you can't stop. Oh my God. All injections, no thanks. No, your pandas, we have a panda link. Yeah, but it's about the better kind of pandas. The red pandas. Yeah, and about the convergent evolution between the two. It's pretty interesting. Oh, I still, yeah. How are pandas related to ferrets? That's cool. I'm tired. I'm tired. And tomorrow I need to do a show. I need to, I know. Yes, Brandon, yes. Well, I've ordered the, I've ordered the Mevo. So I will be getting the Mevo and I'm very excited about it. So I'll have it. So for other places and things that we do, not tomorrow, but other places and things of a Mevo, it's gonna be awesome. I can't wait to play with it. If you guys haven't seen a Mevo before, you should go check it out. M-E-V-O, they're fantastic for live streaming. How's it go? Hot rods waiting for two deliveries. Okay, inside out. I let, yeah, that's right. Ed from Connecticut, UPS uses bicycles now. That's right. The energy efficiency. Identity four, pointed conversations. Oak tech, looking forward. Oh my God, they just keep going, don't they? Yeah, enough. I'm gonna have eyeball dreams now. Kiki, you bring those last four calendars? I'm excited. Should I bring them? I think so. I think we had one more order today. So I need to make sure that I get that order put together, but make sure that I don't find it here and make sure. I mean, if this person ordered four calendars, then we're out. Right. No, one calendar. Okay. Yeah. I gotta bring, I have to bring Justin's calendar. Right. Did I reimburse you? I reimbursed you your money, right? No. I did not? Oh, I thought I did. Okay, I'm sorry. No, that's okay. Let me do that. Let me double check. You would have through PayPal like you do your other stuff, right? Okay. Let me just double check. I don't think so, but, and then did Patrick get one? No, I have to mail one to him. Okay. To get his address. So just two. What? And I think one- So just bringing two. No, no, no, no. The four without these other ones. Okay. But I, do you have a calendar or did you order all of them and give them a ways? I, no, I have one. I'm good. I have it. Okay. So Justin, Patrick, Vada, and yeah. Oh, and my dad. So I'll bring three calendars. Great. And I have one. Still to sell. Yeah. I don't think. Yeah. Nope. Put these calendars up here. But I kind of like the idea of having a couple of extras to give away, maybe later in the year as a little present. So, like the idea of having a couple just kind of held in reserve. That's a good idea. California. I'm going to California. Where it's like mid fifties and rainy. Do you realize I'm wearing two pairs of pants right now? Oh my goodness. I've been so cold. I'm like 50 degrees. Oh my God. That's like over 20 degrees warmer than it's been here recently. Although I, you know, I don't want to say anything about it because I'm kind of scared but there's supposed to be thunder and lightning tomorrow. And I'm a little worried for your airplane. Whoa. This flight is going to be fine. This is going to be fine. 47. Yeah, yeah. Go hot rod. Yeah. I think it topped out here at like 41 or 42 degrees today. And it's just icy slush all over the place. It's terrible. Terrible. It's dangerous and terrible. Won't have free bananas to give out. Yeah. Seattle wet and dim. Why bananas? Hmm. I don't get it. Schnaggo weather. No. Oh, Amazon gives out free bananas. Why? I don't understand that. Who do they give bananas to? Good question. Yeah, whiskey renegade. That's what Amazon is trying to do. You're right. Thunder snow. That's a real thing. I just don't even understand that. I mean, I think our low, we got down to like eight degrees and I was like, okay, we're done here. I can't do this anymore. Unnecessary. This is unnecessarily cold. Seattle banana, Amazon banana vendor that just hands out free bananas. Interesting. Okay. Anything else for tomorrow? I have your flight info. I'm picking you up. We're gonna come back to my house and wait for Justin. Then we're gonna head over to the general area and have Linnar maybe. That sounds like a good idea. And discuss our stories and plan. Yeah, I was thinking, what's it called? Home? Home. It's off of Irving. Oh, that place. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. It's like a block away from the academy. That works. Also across the street from the academy is Pacific catch if you want some fish. That's right. Very good fish. Okay. Yeah, either one would be good. Home. Isn't it, is it called home or social kitchen and very well could have closed and it could be something new now, but. Park Chow, that's what I'm thinking. Oh, you're thinking of Park Chow. Park Chow. Yep, yep. Those are all options. Yeah, it's right in their specific catch. And then Nopalito's good also. Mexican kind of. All good options. Yeah, I like the idea of Linnar. I don't have Google Maps, Zoom issues. Fish and chips. I do love fish and chips. 50 below. How is that even a thing? Oh, my God. I have, I know two people that are on their way to Antarctica right now. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Like most. Well, that's warm down there though, right? It's summer, but I mean it's warm. It's a balmy 50 below down there. Yeah. My goodness. Fish and, and, and, and, and chips. Good night, identity four. Time to actually. I must, I must depart. I have to work for several hours tomorrow before I pick you up. Yes, you have to work. I need to pack and get my child to, to, to real bed and to real school tomorrow morning, which he's not going to want to wake up for because he stayed up too late. And what else do I have to do? Yeah, and then make sure that I'm showered and appropriately adorned with clothing to go out in public on an airplane and then to do a show. Although I don't even have to do that because I could probably change at your house if I were. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. It's all good. Good night, you guys. Everyone in the chat room. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Always fun to see you in there. If anyone's over in the YouTube chat room. Oh, it's quiet over there. Quiet, quiet, quiet. How do you access the YouTube chat room? You have to go to the live show as it's. Living. And it said it has a live chat right next to it. Yeah. It was fun. It was supposed to be a super short show, but you know, we like talking about science. So that's how we do things happen. Happen. And like I said, don't know if we will be able to live stream tomorrow. I will try to social media. Let people know. The show. Starts at 815 p.m. tomorrow night. So. That's specific time. Yeah. So. I don't know. Probably within the hour before that. I will probably know whether or not we're going to be able to make it work. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I would say that's. I think they have one podcast in the six. Something hour. And then there's a like small break and then. What we are. Later. Oh, I think there are just the two podcasts, which is good. Yeah. Yeah. Just load the YouTube page. And then of course, we'll be back next week. I hope everyone has a wonderful night. And we will see you again soon. On the interwebs. Or maybe in person. If you're going to make it work. Can't wait to see you in person Blair. Yes. It shall be grand. Coming to San Francisco. Yes. Yes. Awesome. All right. I'm going to stop broadcast now. Bye. Bye. Bye Blair. Bye. Bye. Minions. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.