 When you share your screen, all your controls go up to the top. For you, because you're the main, you're the coordinator. Oh, that's right. I need to make you the co-host. Yep. The co-host. Yes. All right. So now it's already recording, Jeff says. Great. And I have, I have six 30. So when you're ready to start. So may I ask you a question? Does that mean that Amherst media is recording? But. Oh, yes. I see the little recording dot up here. Okay, that's good. Okay. I hit record. We record and Amherst media goes records and goes live. So we've got everything going, right? So we're live. Wait a minute. We have a recording going to the cloud. Yes. Okay. Thank you because I hit it too. Yeah, you're all set. Yep. All right. Fabulous. Christine. Are we live on Amherst media right now? We are any. Yeah, could be. Yep. We're just waiting for the confirmation and then I'll start reading the pre, the call to order. I believe we're good to go, Christine. Okay. Thank you, Pam. Is someone asking a question? I am David. Is the chat recorded as well? Yes, everything is recorded. Thank you. There should be no chat on this. Yeah. But if there was everything is recorded. Yeah. Okay. So I will start the call to order. Welcome to the Amherst planning board meeting for May 6th, March 12th, 2020 based on Governor Baker's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, GL chapter 30 a section 20 and signed Thursday, March 12th, 2020, this planning board meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform. My name is Christine Graham Mullen and as chair of the Amherst planning board, I am calling this meeting to order at six 32. This meeting is being recorded and is available live stream via the Amherst media. Minutes are being taken as normal. I will now take a roll call board members as you hear your name called unmute yourself, answer affirmatively, and then please place yourself back on hold. Michael Burt whistle. Here. Maria child. Here. Jack gem sick. Here. David Levenstein. So surely distant. Doug Marshall. He's still not here. Okay. And Janet McGowan. Here. Okay. I saw Doug. Yeah. So I just wanted to confirm that Pam, what do you see there? I can. I don't see everything. Hold on. I'm spinning down. I do not see him at this point. So, um, if anyone notices him pop in, we'll reflect it in the minutes. Okay. Board members, if technical difficulties arise, you may need to pause temporarily to, uh, to get the information out. And then we'll continue the meeting. If you do have technical issues, please let, um, IT who tonight that's Sean or Pam know discussion, maybe suspended while the technical issues are addressed. And the minutes will know if a disconnection has occurred. Please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment. I will see your raised hand and call upon you to speak after the meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. One more thing. Remember to remute yourself. Opportunity for public comment will be provided during the general public comment period and other appropriate times throughout the meeting. Please be aware. The board will not respond to comments during the, uh, general public comment period. Um, and it can be entered into a search engine, uh, by typing https, some, uh, colon, backslashbackslashzoon.us, backslash j, backslash, nine, seven, two, eight, four, zero, five, five, nine, zero, three. This link can also be found on, um, yes. I just want to let you know that Mr. Marshall has joined us. Oh, thank you. And thank you for, uh, putting that in the minutes. Welcome, Doug. Um, we're on the call to order here. Uh, the agenda is also located on the town website in two different places. One is through the calendar listing for this meeting, which is on the homepage, the town homepage, and find the link on the event called event details. The second way is to go to the planning board webpage and click on the most recent agenda link. And on that agenda document, which I think is up right now, you will see that same link that you can click on. Please indicate you wish to make a public comment by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited. When you join the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your telephone. When called on, please identify yourself using your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking. So, please do express their views for up to three minutes and at the discretion of the planning board chair. If these guidelines are not complied with or the speaker exceeds their allotted time, their participation will be disconnected from the meeting. Moving onward, the slide will now show the meeting agenda. Again, note the virtual meeting zoom link. So at this time, we will move forward to item one, which is minutes, which I believe we don't have any finalized minutes. Is that true either Pam or Chris? That is correct. Okay, thank you. We'll move to item two, which is the public comment period. I'm going to click to attendees. Hold on. I'm trying to see who's who's hand. I saw a hand go up, but I don't seem to Pam confirm. I don't see any hands up right now. Kay Rosenthal, I just, there we go. I just unmuted that person. Okay, thank you. That's probably why I couldn't see that. Okay, great. So I see a Kay Rosenthal. If you could please identify yourself and your address and welcome and you have, you have three minutes on public comment. Thank you, Madam chair. This is Ken Rosenthal. I live at 53 Sunset Avenue in Amherst. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I want to speak to the item that you have number 440 are not to the substance but process. And I know how important this item will be at a time of great change in our world, our country and our town. We've been through great change week four, and we have dealt with change in many ways. Now we're going to be talking about change in zoning, among other things. And what I'm hoping that this planning board will do. And I know we'll have public hearings, but I'm hoping you'll do more than that. I'm hoping you'll have public forums, to which you will be inviting specifically and generally, not only the neighbors and residents and citizens of the town, but business people, their landlords and prospective developers, not just giving people opportunity, but specifically inviting them to come and speak, not to particular things that they want to do, but to the general developments that we expect to see in the town. These are, this is really an unprecedented time we've been through very interesting times of change in the 60s we grew very rapidly but we knew what direction that was going to be. What direction now. We don't know how the colleges and university are going to change. I don't know what the business community is going to be like. Who do we know how people are going to behave, how they are going to spend their time at home. And I'm speaking of a time when we do not have a coronavirus to deal with. We still now will have that problem with us too. Here is my hope. My hope is that the way you will proceed is very deliberately, not in a hearing format in which you ask people to speak to you, but people to speak with each other in ways that give us a chance to have interchange and conversation about where we all think we may be going. I hope these will be multiple forums that I hope you will take your time to do it. And I thank you for listening to me this evening. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I see one other hand. Do you see that Pam? I've held a green bomb. Okay. Welcome Hilda green bomb, or whoever it is please identify. It's me. Hi. I just have a quick question and that's to ask if you will be accepting questions or comments from the public after the consultants have given their report tonight. I believe we will Chris. Okay. Yes, we will. Because it makes more sense to do it than the now thank you. Okay. Pam, I don't see other any other hands. Is that correct? I see one more constant team. Okay, great. Your thank you. It's flicking around here. So, constant team, please identify yourself and your. I'm sorry, I joined the meeting a bit late. Did you have a chance to talk about the pandemic. We don't have that on our agenda tonight. You know, but we're talking about the playground. Oh, the playground that will be on next after this. We'll be opening the public hearing if you have a question about that, I suggest you wait till we finish with that and then we'll have a public period. Thank you. Constantine, can you tell me your street address please. It's 289 triangle street. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. I don't see any other hands right now. So we will proceed to item three public hearing site plan review. And I will open the public hearing. We did have this come to our last meeting, but that was sort of more of an informational presentation. At this time we're actually going to open a public hearing for the Kendrick park playground. So. All right, so six. It was for 635 it's actually 642 in accordance with the provisions of MGL chapter 40 a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted. The public hearing is being held for the purpose of providing an opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding SPR 2020 07 town of Amherst east pleasant street Kendrick park playground request to for our approval to construct a playground for public hearing areas and other site improvements for a public park under section 3.335 of the zoning bylaw map 11 C-244 RG zoning district. The first thing I will ask, are there any board disclosures or conflicts. I don't see any hands that's what I'm watching for click your hand if you do. I don't see any. So we will move to item three, which is the applicants presentation. I want to just ask Chris best drop. Is there any introduction or a statement you want to make before we or introduce the consultants. This presentation will be made by Nate Malloy, who's a senior planner in the planning department about the Kendrick park playground. We did not hire consultant. Because we have such a good DPW staff, and they were able to do to work with us on the design so Nate, I believe is here and he can go ahead and give the presentation. Great. Welcome, Nate and Nate has. I assume there's some slides that will be going up and I believe Pam, you have those or Nate will be handling his own. I think we have, we both have them Nate. What would you. I can share my screen that's fine. I think that you should because I don't see them right here. Sure. Everyone see that this is hi this is Nate senior planner this is, you know, this is cover sheet one that was submitted with the application. The, you know, the town we presented this on the 15th of April, we went to the designer view board on April 22nd, as well and received comments then we're planning to go back in May to the designer view board. And since our presentation on the 15, there's been a number of comments submitted online through the online comment format and just through email and and notes to staff so we've, we've met as a team a few times. And I'll just say that the plan that's here has been changed so you know the north part of the play area. There's been a lot of comments and suggestions and the design team has been taking them seriously in terms of, you know, accessibility integration of natural features, and you know trying to create really, you know, a nice walkable path system. You know, I'll walk through what Paul death here the towns, when the town's engineers has prepared and then I have additional slides to show. You know we did start off with an existing condition survey. So, we do have, you know we had a consultant survey the entirety of Kendrick park including the topography. And so, you know that was important for us just to know utilities trees curve edge and everything so we have that for our guidance. And, you know, just quickly on this plan here, this is kind of the central area of Kendrick park the middle and there's some topography here. The play area is north of that where it levels out so this is the area envisioned in 2011 where the amphitheater would be, and we're up above that. So, you know we're sticking with the general area that was proposed in 2011, and you know we're trying to work with the trees and existing topography. If we look at sheet three it's, there is a lot to to see. I guess the main thing is there's an existing driveway and hard pack here off East Pleasant Street on the east side where you know there is some, you know, there's a curve cut, and we're proposing to use you know have a walkway here, the main play area, and then you know work with the topography to have this east west connection that slope south. The, you know, within this, this play area. There will be, you know, some excavation we're trying not to impact the trees roots. So, you know, every surface needs a base material. And so, you know, we've been talking about, what's the least amount of material we need to excavate or scrape off to to have to have you know either a, you know, walkways or, you know, the agility areas over here to have, you know, a wood fiber base and then you know, in the play area here with a rubberized surface. What does that mean. And so, the design really responded to what would be the drip line of all the existing trees and try to position the, you know, the areas that would require the most excavation and earthwork to be outside of what's considered you know the, the note, you know, the do not work area within the tree drip line. I'm going to interrupt you. Chris, Chris, Chris Breastrup had her hand raised, although now I see it's down. Oh no it's back up. So Chris do you have a comment or would you Christine recognizes me I just wanted to make. Yes, you're recognized. So I just wanted to make an introductory statement about the origin of this. We had a design from for those of you who did not attend the April 15 meeting and don't really know much about this project. We did an overall design of the project back in 2011 and recently Nate applied for the town applied for a grant a park grant, and we received $400,000 in the park grant to build a playground in Kendrick park which was part of the original project. And then we went to the town council and received another $260,000 worth of CPAC money. So I just wanted to, you know, let people know that who hadn't been participating in previous discussions about this and I'm sorry to interrupt you Nate. Yeah, so to, you know, to continue with Chris that said you know the park grant we've mentioned before wants to have the plans finalized by June one and bidding this summer with construction to start in the fall and a deadline of completion by June one next year. And as far as I understand those deadlines have not been extended. You know the town we've met with a few vendors and you know we're getting we're trying to move things along but it is actually a little slower, you know having to work remotely so we've asked the state about the deadline about extending the deadline. So anyways, back to this so really this you know this design here tries to respond to you know existing trees that the tree ward and Ellen snow and public works and staff thought were healthy enough and could withstand work around them and also topography. And you know it's as you can see it's not right on North Pleasant Street so there is some topography, you know the site does have a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of a hill here on the North Pleasant Street side so we're pulling a little bit away, both because there's existing trees and things that need to be moved and if ever North Pleasant Street gets rearranged in terms of parking or traffic flow, you know this design would not be impacted. As we move north and just indicating even though the design will have changed slightly up here the limit of work is pretty similar so again this area opens up and there's not many existing trees and so, you know, all the walkways would still need some excavation but we're outside of the drip line of trees and we're trying to create, you know walkable paths. This is the demolition and site preparation plan sheet for here, the, you know, layout and materials, the, this general area if you can follow my cursor this east west walkway, this play area, and this sitting area none of this at you know this is much the same as we've seen it, there's an agility area over here to the, to the north, and then you know there's the amphitheater area, and again, accessible walkways. And so, you know, this has changed a little bit but the idea is still to have a continuous loop of walkways, and have them be accessible so this, this walkway east west will be will be will be black top will be asphalt, it's will be paved in the winter so that's why they want hard material, it will have benches along it, and it'll have on, you know, a number of lampposts along it so this will become something that's maintained year round. The rest of the walkways in, you know, the park itself will not be maintained in the winter so they won't be plowed, and this whole big area right here in this play area this is where it'll be manufactured equipment and it'll be a rubberized surface. And you know that that's necessary for accessibility and for fall safe area. The sitting area over here will be surrounded by a stone wall a granite wall and it will be stamped. Because I forgot we decided if I think it's maybe stamped asphalt or permeable paving here with, you know, similar tables as shown. The idea is that this will be, you know, a different texture material but it will all be a, you know, accessible surface. The walkways up north of here throughout the rest of the play area we're looking at doing permeable paving. And then maybe as an alternate doing asphalt paving so depending on price we're going to seek both, but the idea would, you know, we really like the idea of having some permeable paving here. You know, there's benches throughout the play area that will be, you know, a painted aluminum there'll be a granite curb, at least a six to eight inch granite curve on some areas around the pollinator garden and along this edge. We're looking at using boulders and other hardscape material to both as things to play on and then also to form an edge and a barrier in certain areas. The amphitheater area will be Goshenstone with granite and stone sitting that's in the hillside. Up in this area now we're looking at having a circular area with piece stone and maybe some granite boulders it's not shown here but in lieu of a sandbox we're going to have basically like a piece stone area with rocks around it. The ability area shown here with some, some vertical logs will be the area will be extended but that'll be an area that has, you know, logs that are on the ground and slightly raised they'll be staked into the ground they'll be vertical logs that will then also be, you know, in steps with different patterns, it'll be different size rocks and it'll all be in an area with wood fiber ground cover so it's not wood chips it's actually a, you know, a material that is meets a safety standard so, you know, this area will be considered the more the natural play area that leads into this Goshenstone, you know, end of connecting through here will still be the walkway but it'll be backed up to here with, you know, the Goshenstone amphitheater and stone steps. And you know, a number of benches throughout so we're really looking at an integration of material both, you know, surface material and then, you know, vertical elements whether it's natural rock cut granite and logs. I'm not sure if there's any questions at this point or anything so sheet five. Grading and drainage. The, the idea here is, again, I'll start with this east west walkway, you know, this is all this is considered a walkway it's not, it's not a ramp. So you know there's no railings necessary. In this area right here this is the central drainage area. So there'll be under drains under the play area and under this area that come to a measure it will be a catch basin but just a depression. You know, and then it connects into the into the town's drainage system but this is also going to be, this will be an overflow and the thought here is this is a drainage swell that will be planted so it's, we're trying to have it be a slight rain garden so you know most of the material is it's all going to be sheet flow off of this it's just only one and a half percent up to 2% slope pro slope on the playground and it's all sheet flow. That'll, you know, go off the paved areas and go into the mulch beds on the sides or it'll come through the under drains into this area and then you know go through this whale here to the overflow structure here. So you know this is intended to be an accessible walkway. All this has you know would meet ADA standards for cross slope and you know longitudinal slope the you know so we're really here if you follow this I'll just show an example of these contour lines show you know there's there is some grading up to create this way on the side but we're really trying to minimize how much we're deviating from the existing topography as much as we can along the walkways. You know we'll feather it out to the existing but we're not trying to bring up the grade much the the big difference here is that this hill is no longer part of the plan. It was brought up a few times with the planning board meant asked about it and then one of the vendors asked about the utility and accessibility of the slope walkway and the hillside and so this essentially will still be here but it'll be a grade so all these existing topography lines you see won't be here the walkway will still be above grade a bit but not you know not three or four feet so we're thinking you know two feet at most above the existing grade so there'll be less fill but this you know this is still you know if you just take off these two outside contour lines you know the rest of this is still the way it will look essentially so we're you know we're going to be raising everything up a bit in the play area for one you know one reason is to you know we have this sub base material we need to put in so we're excavating a little bit and then we're filling a little bit so we're trying to balance the cut and fill so everything will be and to get the right slopes for drainage so everything is going to be raised up a little bit but not not too high you know most some of these walkways will eventually be essentially then being at grade so in this edge they'll there won't be a curb you know there'll be a planting bed and mulch on this side so you know the grade will just meet up with these exterior walkways on the east side on the west side there'll be a curb with plantings behind it but this curb really is also helping to you know retain some earth you know it's actually helping create an edge against what is you know a sloped a sloped backdrop against the walkway are there any questions about the grading or the Nate I see that Chris Bester has her hand up she must have something she wants to add I apologize I didn't mean to have my hand raised okay Nate if you're at a stopping point are there a few more sheets I was just going to go through them and then I have a I have a presentation with some precedent images just to help I think clarify and a few things Doug Marshall has his hand raised okay so I recognize Doug I had two questions one is whether there's any expectation that at some point in the future there would be a sidewalk along the east side of North Pleasant Street and if that happens whether it would require any rework of any part of this design and the second question is you talked about a fair amount of permeable pavers and I wondered whether that is driven by some sort of stormwater consideration or what the reason for the more expensive paving material is rather than some sort of imper or impermeable paving sure the you know we pulled the this design away from North Pleasant Street with the assumption that if there was a sidewalk you know this wouldn't have this would not be would not need to be moved or disturbed so you know the 2011 plans did show the curb edge coming east a little bit for nose and parking there's there's been different ideas of what's happening along this edge of North Pleasant Street but the design even this walkway to the south here is pulled in a little bit so if there is any need to bring the curb in the this design won't be impacted in terms of the permeable pavers I guess I can be a little more clear we're actually looking at doing like a for the north walkways I'll call them if it's permeable paving it's not actually pavers it's it's a port in place permeable pave pavement so it actually would come you know there's different types actually come in bags and it's an aggregate that you form and you put you you know they poured in place and it's just the way the aggregate works it creates gaps to let water in so it's not as if this would be these walkways would be you know brick on a base and loose pavers it would actually be a continuous surface that would be permeable so whether it's permeable asphalt or permeable we're looking at you know some other materials it would be a that in the way we've the way we're thinking about structuring the bid would be that there'd be an alternate for it so that if it if it is a lot more costly we could decide not to do it but we'd still you know we've been told that the price per whether it's a you know linear yard or linear foot is not much more than paving it with with asphalt with blacktop and I think would actually be less expensive than concrete so we're you know we're doing it both for you know could be for cost but it's also really to keep the rainwater on site and something just to you know less having a less you know a less asphalt in the park if we're yep go ahead Nate this is the lighting plan and conduct plan what you know so right now at Kendrick Park you know there's utility boxes on the perimeter there's no lighting or you know conduit on the interior for for electrical and there's no water in Kendrick Park either so there's no you know we're not proposing right now to bring in water we've discussed whether or not we maybe get a hydrant but this that may not that's not part of this project right now what is part of the product though is running conduit along the walkway and actually having you know pull lights along this this main walkway and then running conduit up through the play area and have it and at a you know at a at an accurate box so be a subsurface box the top would be at grade and we just about a number of conduit points for possible future lighting so that lighting isn't proposed at this time but you know while the the area is being excavated and prepared for construction we would just run conduit to likely spots if we wanted to have you know lighting come up one side of the play area and even for other lighting opposite the play area so you know the only thing that would be happening is there would be five light poles along the east west walkway and they would be the acorn lights that are downtown now you know they'd be on a concrete base and they're the the black wrought iron and you know they would I'll say they're temporary but the idea would be that they you know would illuminate the path and if when when there's a decision about future lighting for Kendrick Park and even this area of downtown if there's new and style lighting we would swap out the light poles so the light poles are something that the town's going to provide and be able to you know get this path illuminated that's that's the lighting these are just details you know I you know there's standard construction details just but just to show that you know everything has a sub base and material so you know we're looking at you know the depth to everything so you know the wood fiber in the agility area is at a minimum of eight inches of wood fiber with the can be on a sub base or on a heart you know on a on the existing material so I mean there's anywhere from eight inches to a foot of material even in the natural area and you know with the walkways to again there's you know a foot to 15 inches of material that would go beneath the surface of the walkway so you know something that we've been considering more details and I think what I'll show now is just some some images of what what we're considering for for site furnishings and different precedent images so you know do more as we've the town uses this this vendor for different furnishings so these are these are actually the benches that grow up we would probably not use the it's not they're not black but we like this style so it's all aluminum as opposed to recycled plastic it would be the benches would be on tubes as opposed to a big concrete slab and there's different styles of benches some with backs and without backs so you could sit different ways and face different areas of the park but these are the styles of benches we're looking at for the for the tables in the circular sitting area would be something very similar to this and then for an accessible table you know there'd be one without a fourth chair so this is a one a one piece table and chair set that could you know can be bolted or can be left within the site enough you know it's it's quite heavy the trash cans would match what is in downtown and they could be both half you know half recycling and half trash or can be one or the other. I think that's hasn't been decided. In terms of stones we're looking at you know both you know kind of not as a rough or natural stone and then you know a more finished stone in some area so it'll be would be a mix of different stone materials. You know here's P stone so if there's some there's Mary's with P stone so this just shows you know what what we're considering in terms of the different stone material. And even you know how would be placed it was placed on an asphalt walkway you know we were considering having a number of these blocks around and something that could be used for play or for sitting. You know here's a typical wall that we have perhaps around the amphitheater and other parts of the park. The. One thing that has changed in the north part of the park instead of we're still thinking about having grass mounds but not as high as what the you know we had originally proposed at five and a half feet with a slide. The slide actually wasn't as big as we would want. So we're still considering having grass mounds and so here's some images showing what that would look like in a play area this is synthetic turf, which we're not proposing in Washington Square Park. These are. These are other images from another from a learning learning park, but just to give a sense for what we've been considering in terms of how, how it would work in Kendrick Park, again with natural stone. Following images are from Pulaski Park. And so, you know they just took the city actually provided the timbers here was white oak and black locusts and they were, you know, anchored into the ground with two you know with rebar threaded raw that went two feet deep but you know this is a synthetic wood, wood mulch material wood fiber material and these logs are then, you know, through fastened all the way through the ground through these connection points to keep stable. Here's an image of it here and again here these vertical logs so we were considering doing something very similar in our agility area with vertical logs and so these logs are equal depth buried to expose so if it's a two foot log a foot is exposed and a foot is buried and there's no you know it's not set in concrete or anything it's just into you know almost augured into the ground and so we were, you know, we're considering something similar to that for the play area. We are still you know considering doing using manufactured equipment and so this is an image that we showed before and it, you know, staff is going to talk to the vendor about, you know, refine this a little bit but, you know, in terms of what we like this is an accessible spinner. So more than one person can get on it it's accurate and it spins. So we're going to keep that we do like the idea of having climbing structures and slides and different elevations of play so this would be for older five to 12 year olds and this is two to five year olds with other you know individual play equipment. In the playground so we're looking at having, you know, three or four bigger structures and then small a few other elements but you know it's really targeted from to the two to five and five to 12 year old. And the following images are just showing different views of that. That same design. So there's no different climbers, you could have some music makers and number of slides. You know we're also looking at a few different types of roof structures so I don't think we're going to have necessarily a, you know, canvas or a seasonal shade structure that we have on, you know, at some playgrounds. We were trying to make rough, they're actually might be pretty difficult to manipulate, get on and off but the vendors do offer different types of perforated material. Sometimes as a canopy above these the play area is in an area that does get a lot of sun and so we've been considering having, you know, whether it's a metal, some areas of metal perforated roof just to provide, you know, some type of shade. Midday in the summer. So that's, that's, I'm going to have a show one more thing. So that's those are all the technical documents. The other piece I've mentioned is, you know, here's the 2011 schematic and we're still staying within this general area. What's changed really is the plan we were looking at was something similar to this where there was a slide and a walkway. And there had been, you know, a sandbox. What the new design that we're really leaning toward is something along these lines so instead of having the hill up here. These walkways are mostly at grade as I mentioned a little elevated but within this area are grass mounds similar to what we saw in the picture so these would be, you know, raised grass mounds with, you know, an accessible walkway all around. This over here in the gray is the piece stone area. And then this is the amphitheater area, the agility area would get extended and have more options maybe even possibly a sandbox here but the idea would be to extend the agility area to connect into the amphitheater area. You know that's something that came to light with all the comments. I was also talking with the vendors about, you know, the, the cost and the utility of the, what was considered the hillside slide it actually wasn't, you know, the slide was only going to be four feet, maybe six feet at most, and it would be above grade. So you can have it on post with synthetic surface underneath as a fall safe zone so you know if you see pictures online and you envision, I'm not sure why but you can go online and see some really cool hillside slides built into the hillside and that's not what the vendors were offering and you know if the play equipment has a number of slides they're going to be taller and better than what we could have had here so that was a $20,000 item that maybe was not worth the both the grading and you know the cost of equipment so you know we still want to have some grass mounds here and have different types of play here. Planting beds, benches, and seating around. There'll be a seating look here. Keeping this at grade also allows for possible connections when the park gets expanded so you know you can have a path come off the north or even through here and connect again so the the ability of making future pedestrian connections is easier on this plan because there's there's not as much topographic change. I think I'll stop there. Thank you Nate. That was great. At this point we're going to move to the site visit report that happened this week. And then I'll move on to questions from the board. I believe Michael volunteered. Yesterday. Five of us were at the, at the site. Observing the, what were the changes in plans as well as the old, the older structure plans. Particularly noticed the, the, the two major trees that need to be removed, both large and both. We also noted whether or not they're viable without, without the playground being built or not. I don't know, but in any event it was clear that there would be plenty of tree cover remaining even with the two trees that would be removed. We also located the site relative to the cross streets, the Klellan and to the buildings across the east pleasant. And that was about it. Thank you. At this time, I will move to questions from the board. So, I'll be watching for your hands and I'll try to call you in order. Okay. So I recognize Doug, and then Michael will be next. Yeah, I wondered what the life expectancy of the elements of the park are and what impact this would have on the annual operating budget of the town, whether there's a lot of maintenance expenses that'll be part of any annual Outlay. Thank you. Okay, Nate, do you want to answer that. No, no. Okay, do you want to? I will. You know, we've, when I'll start with the last one with the annual maintenance costs, it's something that, you know, we've staff has spoken with the different departments planning leisure services and public works. Right now, the, you know, the annual budget for maintenance is not a lot. And so when we have upgraded, you know, mill river fields, and now that we're doing graph, you know, we've always said that we need to increase our operating and maintenance budget. So, you know, we had a sod company come in and work with Amherst baseball on the little league fields. And, you know, we told them the operating budget for maintaining the grass. We almost didn't want to put new grass in because he's like, how are you going to maintain it when, you know, you have such a small budget. So I do think that there, you know, there will be some extra costs. The town maintains Kendrick Park now. So, you know, it mows it and maintains it now. You know, the, in terms of maintenance, there won't be, you know, there'll still be maintenance here. It'll just be a little different. So I'm not, you know, I don't think we've done a calculated a specific amount of new maintenance, but, you know, there will be less mowing, but maybe there'll be more raking in terms of mulch beds or other things. So there will be an increased cost. For life expectancy of materials, you know, the play equipment. Gosh, even the rubberized surface they say 20 to 25 years. You know, you just you, you know, I mean, there is some maintenance on those as well, you know, the rocks and other surfaces I mean they're, you know, again, you know, everyone says 20 plus years so we're, you know, we're anticipating, at least for the for the foreseeable future if this were built you can get a lot of capital costs or maintenance on the materials, you know, you know, after 25 years that could be reevaluated in terms of what, you know, what needs to happen so sometimes the rubberized surface the surface is good but the cushioning underneath needs to be improved so we can inject underneath the rubberized surface to keep get the, you know, the fall safe protection again. If we do use permeable paving that needs to be cleaned annually or, or at some point you don't need to be cleaned. But you know, so all the natural materials the stone walls the sitting the rock walls and benches I mean we're anticipating that to need minimal maintenance. Thank you. I'm going to recognize Chris Bester before Michael, she might have something to add. Thank you, Christine. I wanted to note that two of the members of our design team work for the Department of Public Works. Al Dethier is an engineer and landscape architect who works for the DPW and Alan Snow is the tree warden and Alan is in charge of a lot of the maintenance of parks, including maintenance of plant material and grass and all of that so. We were part of this discussion from the very beginning and in fact, you know, helped us to choose materials with an eye towards lower maintenance and that's one of the reasons why we've chosen to go in the direction of a manufactured play equipment for the larger play area. In addition to accessibility and safety factors. We also find that that type of material is requires less maintenance than some of the materials that are actually natural materials which can deteriorate more rapidly over time so I just wanted to add that. Thank you Chris. At this time I'll recognize Michael and then next will be Janet. Yeah, just a brief question about the mounds in the north part of the area. I love I love the idea of grass mounds. Are they going to be kept at the same mowing height as the rest of the grass in the area or will they be shaggy or Nate. Yeah, I, my thought is they'd be kept. Maybe not as short as the surrounding area by I hadn't envisioned them becoming shaggy. You know, maybe, you know, three, three inches or four inches depending, you know, it depends on how much use they get to, you know, the idea here would be that we're considering putting saw down and actually have it be a really pretty thick, you know, kind of on material, you know, a solid material that can withstand heavy traffic but then it would it would be maintained. I can't, you know, I can't answer exactly how how that was envisioned I was thinking that would be, you know, maybe kept a little longer than some of the other surrounding grass but not shaggy. That's a good question. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I recognize Janet. Thank you for this presentation. I have questions about the maintenance. I, I, you know, how often do the wood chips have to be kind of adjusted or cleaned. Like who will be maintaining the garden reading it and what's the source of water to plant it to water it. And then the planting beds. I think they'd have to be hand mowed on in the eating areas and the playground itself be cleaned pretty regularly and so I just wondered like, is that going to be a daily thing a weekly thing. It looks like a really interesting and fun playground but it seems like if it has a lot of use it's going to need cleaning and watering and clipping and reading and all those kind of tedious things of life. I think that's a good question. The, you know, as it is now with Alan and his crew and other public works they, you know, they open all the parks daily and they do a sweep of the parks in terms of picking up trash. You know, so there's a daily, there's a daily, you know, opening and cleaning in terms of the more in depth say weeding or things I mean I, you know, my thought is that at least, you know, weekly we'd want to have the wood chips in the agility area rate and make sure that they're being maintained. We discussed how the pollinator garden and other areas would be watered and maintained so you know there's the garden club in town but you know we've also looked at whether you know right now public works is between Alan and Paul they are looking at different plant varieties that you know are hardier and don't need as much as much maintenance. So I think that is a good point. You know and we're still looking at some of the exact details of that. So for instance on the western side of the park right here I mean we're showing plants here but we're thinking, you know, you know, ground covers and shrubs and things that can be planted that, you know, necessarily once they're established they don't really need much maintenance. You know, they might need an annual pruning and maybe, you know, weeding once or twice a season but you know they won't need any weekly maintenance. I agree that some of the flowering areas may need a little bit more and that's something we have discussed and we haven't, you know, we've thrown out different ideas in terms of how that would work but right now is trying to look at different perennials or plants that are hardier that can withstand, you know, even droughts or, you know, different changes in temperature. Is there a water source for the plants and gardens? So, you know, the discussion was to, when this is constructed to have, you know, we were discussing whether or not we could, you know, run a hose from a fire hydrant or get a watering truck that would come by a few times a week. So long term, you know, the discussion was how to bring water to the site and, you know, it's on the street so that, you know, one thought was to you know, we haven't figured that out yet actually, you know, is to have a hydrant but then how to hook up to that with a temporary meter possibly. The other question I had was about safety and so in my experience when you have small children and medium sized and large children they move and kick balls and so my concern is that kids will be kicking balls into the street and chasing after them and so is there any thought to how that could be blocked like the ball and the kid? Well, the, you know, so right, you know, along North Puzzle there is this natural barrier so, you know, there's going to be a curb along this whole edge with plantings and rocks. You know, in this area there's again some planting beds and then there'll be the agility area. The, you know, just the other weekend, last weekend, Kendrick Park was packed with families and kids running around and right now there are no barriers and there hasn't been necessarily a perceived safety issue. You know, the thought is, you know, along with Pleasant there is this natural barrier and on this edge, you know, we've talked about increasing the number of benches. So, doubling up the benches, having more seating that can act as a barrier and have more eyes on kids but, you know, at this time we're not proposing a fence whether it's here or along East Pleasant Street. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty quiet park. I mean, you know, and, and fortunately for the packed park last weekend there's hardly any traffic but usually there's a fair amount of traffic moving through there at different, you know, at rush hour times of day. And it's been a very quiet, lovely passive park and we're trying to get kids to come and play and families be there. So I just want to highlight that as a concern. Okay, yeah. Okay, at this time I want to recognize Jack. Sorry, Janet quickly, would you have more concerns about or about about North Pleasant and East Pleasant or is there one that would be a higher priority. Well, I think there's more traffic on East Pleasant but you know, anytime you think of someone, some small kid chasing a ball where they're parked cars into a street, I think you have to worry. So North Pleasant would mean I would just worry, but I, you know, obviously East Pleasant has more traffic, you know, North Pleasant has less. So I just want to go through that street a lot to avoid the traffic circle and things like that. I don't know. But I think, you know, you're trying to draw people into use the park and traffic is always increasing. So, I don't know, I just, you know, somebody who wrote in had suggested planting a thorny hedge which sounded possibly cruel, but effective and so I just wondered if there's an idea of that, like, where balls can go where kids can go. So but it sounds like you are thinking of that too though. You know, I don't think, I mean, like I said on this side we're really thinking this will develop into a really a vegetative hedge without thorns but you know the thorns could that would definitely be deterrent thorns pop balls. That would end the ball. I just want to, on the fence part, I think Nate brought up a good point about how there are no fences now and people come and play ball and frisbee and such, and we're only focused on one part of the park. And if Nate or whoever's, if you put that 2011 or the existing site plan up, you know, it shows you that we're just talking about one little area I mean there's still a lot of open space that kids could be playing with so it's sort of hard sometimes I think to draw a line, you know, would have to think about where that fence, you know, goes, because it's this, there's still kind of a bit of an open field to the north part, right, you know, past the. There is it will be this you know this area will remain open and you know, this whole area will remain as it is in its current condition so there are some big areas I think it's interesting I mean, you know we had talked about even for the kind of common having not, you know, like small fences like you'd see in New York City in certain parks, both to keep people on the walkway and then also to try to, you know, direct traffic but maybe for safety and in terms of fencing you know I, Christine I think once if this starts becoming implemented, you know, a consideration for how the whole park can work with different types of barriers would be really important so could there be a, you know, if you did need a fence here, you know, is there a way then to carry it through the whole design of the park. Yeah, like those really expensive gorgeous red iron ones they used to put up like 100 years ago that would be beautiful. I'm going to recognize Jack again he's been very patient. Oh yeah, and I actually my question was on fencing as well. You know I think I think the park I was there at the site visit but it looks extremely interesting and fun or families and things like that more like a boutique kind of park, but I just noticed the the narrowness of Kendrick park between my knees pleasant. And so, I mean I just know how well, I've had, you know, kids as well, but I'm not putting a ball into my argument. But I knew, I know kids as they did they just run off, you know, from their parents especially if there's, you know, the family has more than one kid, and then that kid kind of just goes and this is going to be a magnet for families with, you know, lots of kids so I also bring a fencing issue, because I'm really concerned about the safety on East Pleasant Street. And I feel like it, you know, all this, all this stuff is going to energize kids. And what we see now and what people are doing now and Kendrick Park doesn't apply to how you know people are going to be enjoying, you know, this new park at all it's going to be a different population. So, that was my comment on the fact I feel like there should be some fencing it sounds like that could be accommodated, you know, later on, as a fix, I guess. So, and then, and then I have a second question and it's a little bit odd but I'm wondering about, you know, this country park used to have all these homes there and I know water and sewer. They were provided with water series so I know all that is readily made by I'd also know that probably a restroom is very controversial maintenance issues and all that, but I was wondering if Nate or Chris could speak to what do we have for public restrooms right now just just seems like and it doesn't even apply to this, I guess, necessarily but for me it seems like that that's something that's lacking. And I don't wonder what others think about that. You know restrooms aren't part of this project. It has been mentioned a number of times, you know, in terms of public restrooms there's the bank center, which I think maybe the closest in terms of a public facility. You know, there's the Jones library town hall and the police station, the, I'm not sure how open the central fire station is, but those are the public buildings. There have been some discussions about what, you know, could a private restroom or facility building, would they open up to the public. And that's something that, you know, can be researched a little bit more but you know right now there are no restrooms planned for this for this facility. I mean there's also community field of triangle street to that's open. Yeah, there are, there are none right now plan, you know, they give us an idea of how much it costs like, you know, because I assume that's why you're not considering it right now. How much would it cost to put a standard, you know, bathroom building in this area. And it's interesting the, you know, I guess it's like, you know, for some conservation areas and recreation areas we've looked at getting prefabricated or like modular restrooms. So they'd be, you know, maybe have to to accessible unisex bathrooms and it comes into building a modular setup that you connect. And depending on how you want to do it, whether it's to a town water and sewer or if it's to, you know, whether it's compostable or not the, but you know, even that you know the prices are 150,000 for material and then you're talking about installation and utility connections and so, you know, I would think that having putting and then if you want, you know, if you want to be, you know, decorative or have a certain aesthetic or you know what we did at community field we renovated community field restrooms a few years ago actually and we had everything be automated so all the lights are censored water censored toilets are censored. And you know it's a center block building and I think that renovation was like 150,000. It was quite a bit and I was shocked at how much it cost but you know to get some, you know, sturdy fixtures and to really, you know, improve the building so I think the cost would be 200,000 300,000 for restrooms, and then there's the main budget. It's outside the budget I mean I, you know, I mean there could be other you know solutions but you know as a public construction project. You know how you know where is it in the park how big is it, you know, is it seasonal is it is there a water heater so sometimes if you have you need hot water for the sinks so there's a number of consideration so it's usually not just just a restroom you know you usually have to bring electricity in you need a utility closet. Can that so would that be like another grant or something you know, a phase two of this park or because you're talking about maybe lights maybe water maybe this you know so you have 100 right now or 660. You're trying to best utilize that kind of money and then they'd be like a phase two. I can't speak to if restrooms would be a later phase I think, you know, staff has heard it and so it'd be a discussion in terms of how, how would it fit into the park, you know, into the overall budget and in the location there. You know, in terms of the lighting you know my thought is the lighting we're saying would be just right now is to run you know, as if we're looking at this plan here we're going to have lights along this walkway and then we're running conduit up so if you have any action, the lighting could just run up this way, you know, it's not the same plan but you know we'd have these interior lighting, you know in terms of water to or having water somewhere here for the playground but you know restroom is a much bigger discussion in terms of its overall aesthetic and location in the park. Yes, Chris Bester, I think she has something to add. I was just going to say that the, the bid and the chamber have been having conversations with the town about the issue of public restrooms. So it is really a larger topic and, you know, we are serious about addressing it but this project, you know can't accommodate it, but you know we hear you that there should be some sort of public restroom up in this vicinity of the downtown and whether it ends up in Kendrick Park or someplace else, you know, we'll have to be considered but you know within our budget and our scope of work it's not really something that we can accommodate as part of this project. I actually have a question, Nate if you could, or whoever's driving could put up one that shows the circular seating area with the tables. So here's this area right here. Yeah, great thanks. My concern right now is the, the furniture that's been picked is we have a picture of it in our packet it's the, well usually four seats attached but to make it for handicraft, ADA you can remove one of the seats. So that's actually only three seats and three seats. You know, so for family of five you can get kids to try to scooch and share on a thing but I just wanted to ask the question I automatically thought about what I had done with my family of five and sometimes the attached picnic table with benches are nice but then I realized that that area we're talking about if it's the scale I believe is one inch to 10 feet that area is really small it's really only about eight by maybe max 12 feet and even at that in the circle. Could that area was there any thought about making it a little bigger maybe fitting a third table. You know it's very small because then I looked there's no other tables as lots of benches but that's really the only seating area. I think that's good point the idea is that this you know this would act as a seating wall around it. So you know although it's not a table you'd have some more seating, and that the most recent meeting we've discussed you know eliminating this kind of flower bed area so that that you know just be this whole area would just be one a paved surface without this, this flower area. You know eliminating this you could get three tables in there. You know we can take your comments back to the team and you know see if this could be made just a little bit bigger to accommodate an extra table or two. Yeah, it was just you've got the play equipment right there and you know very often mothers you know have maybe three kids or it's two moms and a combo of four or five I knew I was in that a lot and you know it's snack time or lunchtime you're making it a multi hour event to go down there. And I just so adding to that the strollers it's maybe it's good if you move that flower bed but it's a real pinch point and you get 304 strollers in there with. If you were to try to stick a third table it just seems for all the land that's there it just seems very pinched so I would appreciate if people could go back and rethink that a little alright. I'm going to recognize Maria. Um, let's see what was it I think. Overall, all the activities you know are similar to what we saw in the past and it looks great. I think the only sheet that shows in its context pretty well as the cover sheet unfortunately and so I'm hoping it's placed accurately but it shows sort of the design and blue relative to East and North pleasant streets. And that one up. Is that see it was in the set that was in our packet which is I know outdated but at least the sidewalk is sort of relevant to the spoke, I think, are for. Yeah, right here off the street. I was just wondering if any more consideration about, you know, how it connects to the rest of the town I know that you know in the future. East pleasant street side might change but um, as far as a sidewalk on the west and where it hits McClellan and I guess that little perpendicular bit being sort of oh sorry it's not pulled up yet it's probably. The first page Nate from our handout the like it was the cover sheet. Yeah, the only one where it really shows it's the buildings across the street right. Yeah. So it's not this one. No handy Pam would you have that available. Had it up. You didn't it is a very first sheet you had a isn't it this right here can see if everyone see what I'm sharing now. Sorry you don't want to write new share sorry. I had my screen and. All right yeah yeah sorry I was looking at it. You got to really share Nate. Yeah, sharing. So yeah, it looks like the east side hits East pleasant in a place that's sort of no man's land right now but that's all right because you know something might change on the east. I think the only bus stop is in front of the people's bank right that that's further down here. And so I just curious like why on the west you have such a long sidewalk proposed and then I guess that's like a little crosswalk that you have that's headed toward the words where you have McClellan McClellan street. Is that just so like when people come from downtown, they crossover versus on the east side or you know like yeah just sort of contextually what was the idea behind all that pedestrian way on the west and then. Right I think the you know so there's the new sidewalk here along East pleasant street so there's you know one or two crosswalks here further south that isn't oh I guess not quite shown. People have a cross and walk up here and then have a direct connection. In terms of down to McClellan right through here is where the tan broke passes through Kendrick Park. Originally you know that I was like okay let's let's put a crossing right almost directly across but then you're at a mid block. And it's so the idea right now is to you know, if you brought down to McClellan public works is talking about having whether this be a whole raised cross intersection now with a larger raised crosswalk or traffic calming. And then there's some utilities right here there's a sewer and manhole and drainage both sewer and drainage infrastructure that you have to avoid so. You know that's why it's coming to the south of the McClellan street it's really trying to avoid any any possibility of of running into tan brook so you know that I understand that it's kind of a dog leg that comes quite far south but. I hope in reality it you know it's an easy connection for people walking. You know they can it'll be at a you know an act you know at a cross street they can cross and come up. Right because in the winter that is the only place that will be plowed as far as see this whole walkway will be plowed. And it's this this topography also allows for this shape there's quite a bit of topography right here. The shape coming like this allows it to be a slope walkway and not a ramp or it doesn't need stairs so. There will be some fill brought in here but I get essentially this will be. You know, an accessible walkway if we came straight off here this is quite steep right where the cursor is and so if the walkway came straight there'd be a number of stairs and then we'd still need to have an accessible route so this tries to satisfy it with one design. Thanks bait is there still talk of turning because DPW is involved in this North Pleasant Street making it a one way. That hasn't been a part of the discussion I mean we've discussed. We mentioned what's happening long term but that there hasn't been any real discussion on that I think. In the 2011 plan they showed your angled parking right in here and making this one way and so I think all those things are still, you know, under consideration, I don't really know what the long term plan is. I'm going to recognize Janet and then Michael will be next. So Nate I have a question prompted by what Maria was saying is if people are coming from the north. Or across the street of East Pleasant where you know all the buildings are right now and probably future buildings. Is there going to be a raised crosswalk towards the entrance like first how would people from the north come. Would they be across the street or I think there's a sidewalk running along the park right there is and then there's there's a crosswalk right here. Okay, so you know if you are on the other side you can cross here and then it's not too far down and then there's this new sidewalk all along the north. Is there top is there thinking about raising that crosswalk to sort of slow traffic down and give people a chance to get across. Not not that I'm aware of but I'll make a note of it. Yeah, thank you. Can you switch to that 2011 plan again. Sure. Janet's question made me think. Thank you. Yes, you know, in that one there was so I'm thinking about people walking north like from the campus way, like how I would walk down that way. You know, there it shows some very graceful sidewalks that could bring you down into the park. But at this point, it looks like in the new design they would have to walk all the way down to McClellan and get into it that way. You're right. So yeah, right now there's no existing sidewalk on the west side of Kendrick Park. And so just in terms of, you know, not having, if we show this, you know, keeping this at great allows for a connection. But you know there isn't money in the budget to then create a sidewalk that goes all the way up to this intersection so that does really outside the scope of the play area. So we're, we're, you know, we're allowing for that connection in the future but not, not this time. So can you add that to phase two. It's interesting for someone coming north, you know, they would right now the sidewalk does not, you know, it really follows the perimeter of the curve edge and it would come around here so someone would have to, you know, walk around the north and then the east. You know, or they could come down north buzzing and then come up a bit. Those are the two sidewalks. Okay, thanks. I'm going to recognize Michael. There. Going back to the cover sheet that you showed a minute ago. I'm just another question about that same sidewalk. The, the, there's the suggestion that the park would be closed at from dust to dawn that it wouldn't be available at that point. And so if there's no fencing. Clearly closing it is, is a matter of public perception rather than about rather than patrolling but would you would you imagine that that sidewalk from that connects McClellan Street and ends up on East pleasant would be available and usable during the evening hours, or not. I mean, I, I would assume I would assume yes, you know, we're providing, you know, pedestrian level lighting there. You know, and to your point about the playground, you know, it's interesting at one point we talked about what we have, you know, ballers at either entrance here, not that you chain it off but you could have some signs I would say close at dusk I think that I envision that the, you know, the sidewalk here would be illuminated and used, you know, in the evening. I'm sure that's going to your point of when how is the park closed. Yeah. But thank you. I recognize David. Thank you. And then Chris, you're next. And for the rest of the team for putting together this proposal that's trying to maximize state funding. I just, I'm not to be too contrary. It's in my mind, it's not that large a park, and it's not that large a play area. And so minimizing the, the added paving or, and I think is is is an asset rather than a detriment because the more we're talking about adding walkways. And I think that from the north side people will be, if they can walk across the field. That's remains, which nice, or they can walk on the neighboring the adjacent sidewalks on the streets, where their cars maybe are likely part. So I think that that's actually an asset to the, the current design of the current year, rather than anything else. And so I applaud, minimizing the added me cattle. I think that I think that's pretty much it. Thank you. Thanks, Chris Bester. So, so we have heard from the DPW and I think this was a comment that the superintendent, Gilford mooring made that if we put up a sign that said the playground is closed from dusk to dawn. And we alerted the police to that fact that they would drive by and if they saw people, you know, playing there or doing things that weren't appropriate or whatever students going through there at night that they would tell them that the playground is closed and they can't be in the playground. I don't think that will apply to the path that goes across it because people do use that, you know, to get from the neighborhoods to the west of Kendrick Park over to the stores and the buildings and bus and bike share on the east side of Kendrick Park because I had the feeling that the walkway would still be open. But as long as there's a sign up to clue the police in and we let them know that we don't want people there after dark, they will patrol it and try to keep people out of there. I see no more hands up right now for board members. So I was going to move it to public comments. So I'm looking at we have 28 attendees right now on zoom, and I will ask them to raise their hand if they have a question about the park. I see I see two hands right now. So I will recognize you, or at least what I see on the screen so please introduce yourself and where you reside, and then ask your question. And I see three hands now so I'll start with Dorothy Pam. You can mute yourself and introduce yourself to do that. Oh, yep. I did it. Give it up. Good. Okay, so Dorothy. Are you there Dorothy. Dorothy, do you. Do you hear us. Here you okay. Is that noise going to go away. I don't remember where I wrote the number down. I have a phone. Okay, I wrote the numbers down. Do you want me to come back to your door at the end a few minutes. I'll come back to you. I'll go to the other two people and I'll come back. Okay. Thanks. Mr. Are you there. I think Pam is he unmuted. It will be. There we go. Yes. Hello. I'm. Yeah. Yes, we can hear you. Welcome. Yes, great. Thank you. And if you could say your address again and then ask your question. 289 triangle street just north of the. Of Kendrick Park. I'm very interested to know. Did the current COVID-19 pandemic. Influence your planning in the past few weeks. I understand that this is a project for the history started in 2011. Clearly that was a different time. So now we are under statewide. Lockdown. And health experts tell us that it's likely that the situation will continue for a year or maybe two. So my questions are number one. Did you think about the most effective way. To shut down the area. In case there is an emergency situation as it's. Putting up signs. Will possibly, you know, work on families. But definitely not on young people who will be also using the, you know, the area on their own. So I really, you know, I'm, you know, I'm really asking you to think about the fence. I know that it's not ideal, but it would, if there's a fence and the location could be physically put under lockdown if necessary. That would do a lot for public safety of the for the health of the community. And number two. Do you, you know, did you have, you know, time to figure out the protocol. For disinfecting the area daily. I understand that the earliest it will open will be. Summer next year, but chances are. That the situation with the pandemic will not get, you know, completely resolved. Or there may be another way. So when we think about maintenance, I think we're also looking at the necessity for daily maintenance. Disinfecting the surfaces, right? Particularly it's a playground. Heads, right? So those are my two questions. So I would be really grateful if you could address them. Thank you. Nate, do you want to answer that? And I just, part of it is we have other parks in town. How is that? Is there a plan how that's going to be handled? Nate. Nate's still with us. Or Chris, do you want to answer that? Maybe it's not listening. So. Sorry. I was muted. Sorry, Chris and everyone. My computer was chiming. So I, I wasn't sure. I think I was going to email. But anyway, so the, um, Yeah. Thanks for your comments. The, I was going to say that I was saying that the town takes, you know, safety of its residents and visitors very seriously. I, you know, I think they've done a commendable job. You know, in terms of, you know, Christine, you mentioned the other parks. I mean, the town went, you know, closed its public parks. In an effort to, you know, stop social gatherings. And then also to ease maintenance. So, you know, if this park. Were constructed at this time again, it would be, you know, a patrol in the city of San Francisco. And I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. And so the, um, Yeah. Thanks for your comments. The, I was going to say that I was saying that the town takes, you know, safety of its residents and visitors very seriously. And I, I think they've done a commendable job. You know, in terms of. You know, a patrol issue, but, you know, all public parks in an emergency like this would just be closed. We wouldn't allow, you know, them to be open. Um, because that, you know, the, I do think the daily disinfecting is something that we haven't discussed. And, you know, I think the easier solution is not to, is to close them because that's, that's the safest measure. The, um, I understand people will still come. You know, I read what in Sweden where they spread chicken in the park. I mean, I, I, I mean, So I think, you know, we haven't discussed that directly. Um, same with, you know, also to like the fence or how what's the effective way. If there's another emergency, you know, we're not necessarily designing this park. With an eye toward, um, You know, having to keep users a certain distance. I mean, if this were open people, there's plenty of space for people to, you know, Have social distancing occur. Um, you know, if there was another health emergency like this, my thought is the town would close public spaces and make it pretty apparent that it's not to be used. I don't, I can't say, you know, what, what are the measures the town would use at that time? I mean, if people continue to use it, you know, would it be, you know, more patrols in this area? Would it be putting up temporary fencing, you know, chain link fencing? Like construction, you know, those are things we haven't really discussed. Thank you. I'm going to move to Hilda Greenbaum. I believe you are able to speak. Yeah. Okay. Hello. I can hear you now. Please introduce yourself. I have a question about the sidewalks and whether they would be tricycle and baby carriage. Easily, not necessarily accessible, but pushable. And that's emanating from my many years of pushing grandchildren around, especially Amity street. When I, when I look at the number of tree roots that have made pushing a carriage of Amity street next to impossible, that I see there are a lot of trees planted or bushes. It's hard to tell planted very close to the walking paths here, whether you're going to have the same kinds of upheaval of the pavement that we suffer on Amity street. So I just want to make sure that people were thinking about that when they plan the plantings along the sidewalks. Thank you. So the, you know, the sidewalks are, you know, we're building them, you know, five to six feet wide. So they are, you know, wide enough. They will be a smooth surface so that they could be used by, you know, different, whether it's toys or assisted devices. The, for tree roots, you know, if the town's done in some areas and you know, it, it, you know, it's the freezing and thawing and other things that happen along tree roots that, you know, sometimes they lose themselves. I keep the sidewalk. So a lot of it goes into the sub base material. A few, you know, the towns try different methods. You know, different gravel or sub base material that has, you know, voids in them to allow, you know, things to expand or move. So, you know, like Chris had mentioned, we're working with public works on this design, both the tree warden and an engineer. So my assumption is they've designed the walkways and this, you know, the sub base materials in a way that it would allow for. Both the roots to survive and then also to, you know, any, to remediate any heaving, you know, to, you know, that could be also just, you know, more scoring patterns and joints on a sidewalk. So, you know, concrete will or asphalt sometimes can break, but if you have control joints and expansion joints, so there's a few ways to plan for that. I'm not, you know, I, we haven't, that hasn't been talked about. So I'm not going to, you know, make you aware. No, that's good. Thanks. That's something we can bring back. Thank you. I'm going to go back to Dorothy. I do not see that. You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, there's a few ways to plan for that. I'm not, you know, I, we haven't, that hasn't been talked about. I'm going to go back to Dorothy. I do not see your hand up, but I'll give you this moment. You are unmuted. If you want to speak. I think she has herself muted. I have her unmute, unmute. If she's listening. If not, I'll try one more time. I see one more hand. I see Kathy. She went showing. I think she's not going to be able to hear. She's going to hear it. Kathy. Shane, that's right. I was like, it's not like how it looks. Shane, Kathy Shane. She, you're allowed to speak now. Wait a minute. I'm not speaking. Okay. Now she should be. Okay. Kathy, are you there? Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. We can hear you. Hi. I'm Kathy Shane. I live at five 19 Montague road. but I'm speaking as a resident. I just want to echo what I think David Levenstein said is, in this case, trying to minimize the cost and minimize the amount of paving and other things we put in this is important rather than maximize the grant even. Because I think the issue of us maintaining, you can look around our other parks and see what happens to equipment. Not to mention just the grass. So I do have a question about the rubberized surface and I can see how big it has to be and it partly has to be as big as it is because the amount of equipment that's on it. So potentially less equipment would mean less rubberized surface and it's so expensive to put in that even if it has a 20 year lifetime, if it costs $200,000 we may not replace it given the way Amherst does it. So just those two are interactive. Then on the table, I'm wondering whether it may be that it's just more expensive, but when you look at a central park and some of the parks that have playground or play area, they put in stone tables where there's a stone top on a stone pedestal and they've been there forever. And the table I saw with the four attached chairs is that aluminum. And is there a way to think a little bit more creatively about tables? Cause I do think tables are important. Even if they're small, people sit down at them. It's a nice place to gather and talk with people. And then the last is, I think there's still a sand lot in the, when I was looking this afternoon and keeping the sand clean is for the one time we live near a playground that had sand when we lived in DC, the one place that was completely destroyed was the sand lot because pets had gone in it. There was debris in it, cigarette butts and other things in it. So just thinking in terms of sand doesn't necessarily stay clean and you want it to stay clean. So it's the whole theme is around maintenance. That's it. Nate? No, I think those are good points. We are talking to one, a stone manufacturer and distributor to get costs on items. So we could ask about tables. I mean, I'm assuming that a stone table would be more expensive than the aluminum, but you never know. So we can look at that. And even different ideas for different types of tables. Yeah, the sand, it's interesting. There's still maybe a sand area and we've talked about maintenance. So we've also suggested maybe if there's a piece stone area and we thought about if the sand was to go away, it would just be piece, we'd have piece stone instead of sand, it's a little, it's different, but it's still tactile and kids can play and dig in it. Hopefully it's not as much of a maintenance issue. So I understand, I hear that about the sand. I haven't, you know, I just, I'll take note of that. Cats don't like the piece stone as much as the sand. I think that was, so I'm going to go back to Dorothy Pam. And if you can try to, thanks Pam. I believe she is unmuted. Yes, can you hear me now? Yeah. Dorothy, Amherst Media sent me a message and said to remind folks that they need to turn their telephone down, their speakers down and TVs down before they speak, if you have either of those going. So this... Jay, is that better? Let's turn the volume down. I'm on my computer. I tried the phone. The phone does not let one in. I typed in the meeting ID number and then it asked me for my personal ID and all that it was said in the directions was type, what was it? Space nine. I did that and it wouldn't accept me in. So the telephone does not work. Okay. So I'm ready to, I guess that's a simple question about the tables with the attached chairs. If one were wanting to do some social distancing, you could not do so with those four attached chairs. Now, I understand why movable chairs might be a problem, but let's just say that you're a grandparent wanting to watch your grandchildren, but we're still in a half kind of social distancing world. So maybe there could be some permanent individual chairs like a stone chair that is not so close to other things. I mean, I realized this is in contradiction to Christine's point, which was good, which you wanted a space for a group of mothers and children to eat lunch while playing. But the attached four chairs did seem to present a problem to me. The other issue is for price reasons, you have decided to not do the natural materials for the play structure, but the pictured equipment was my most hated color, beige gray plastic color. So I know that the public had one of the meetings I went to didn't want it to be those bright, too many bright primary colors, but what about making the equipment just that old fashioned, dark playground green? And then it would blend in with the trees and I think that would look a lot better. But basically I'm very excited about the park and I hope it will be built soon and I hope that we will come up with a fundraising process to build a beautiful restroom at the tip because there's no way that children that I know could ever make it to any of the bathrooms you listed without wetting their pants. So I do think we need a restroom at some point. That's it. Thank you, Pam. Thank you. Wow, my head's running. Yeah, I like the idea about movable chairs. I went, you know, a lot of tacos into that. You know, for the play equipment, the color, yeah, the colors can change. I mean, there's a lot of colors. I almost want to say too many color choices, but the, you know, one vendor cautioning it's too dark of materials because it gets hot in the sun and so there is a discussion about what are the right color choices and even, you know, changing some of that equipment a little bit. Pam, can you put up the playground or maybe just to show those colors? I know there was some like lime green in there. Oh, you know, sorry. Same thing. What's wrong with lime green? No, just, you know, I just wanted to show it. Yep. My hope too would be that the colors maybe read pretty, quite bright and artificial on here and it could just be the way it's presented. I mean, I agree that it's, you know, during the forums, everyone had talked about, you know, whether it's more muted colors or something that's not as bright and thematic. So that's something we can consider. Yeah, and just when people are talking about colors on it, like if you stop there for a sec, you know, this post, you know, she said she doesn't, I think the putty of the brown color, where I think some of the slides and such, they sort of almost only come in those colors. Like this is something that might, you might want to, you know, delineate out and find out what are the selections. Because there we see lime green, you know, some parts of the pieces must come in colors, but some pieces may have a very limited number of colors. So I think, you know, the vendor did here, this was a, this was probably one of their standard color palettes. So, you know, they have like gray or silver posts and then a few different colors. And so, you know, they've said that almost anything can be customizable, probably not at a cost. It's just, you'd have to, you know, go through and choose it. So I think there's like five different color colors on, say for instance, this play structure, you know, there's posts, there's this plastic, there's climbing, there's caps, and there's the surface. And so I think any of that, I think those can, I agree that, you know, the slide material may be have, you know, six different colors, you know, and then this metal, this green right here, there might be 30 different colors. And so it's just a matter of choosing a palette that works and, you know, can maybe be more subdued. Thank you. And just if we have another map, you know, I was talking about the table. Ironically, the circle there has a picture. Yeah, so yeah. But you mentioned that stone area in that circle, that's sort of like what you got, the DPW is planning to do, you know, so she was, you know, if people are in that circle and they couldn't, didn't want to sit at a table, they can sit on the stone benching. Right. Right. And you'll have other benches nearby. You know, you said that a couple of times that you definitely want to have a lot of benches. Yeah, so this mock-up right here, you know, we had envisioned a sign here, a bench here, you know, what we've talked about here is creating a better edge along this by doubling up benches here, just to create more, you know, more seating and then also more of a barrier. The, you know, movable chairs is interesting. The, you know, one of the designs for the North Summit had a puzzle with movable chairs, just so, you know, people can sit how they'd like. I mean, it's something I think we can discuss as a design team. I lived near a new park in California and they did put in some movable chairs. Very heavy, not more than aluminum, they were some kind of metal that was very heavy. And they did have them chained, which made them hard to move, but that was for theft. But unfortunately, by the end of two years, they were all magically gone. So I know that's a concern. You don't want your furniture to travel. So, you know, maybe ask the vendor. I think the vendor would have a lot of insight on that. I mean, even at those, that round table and those chairs, I think it's a, it weighs 350 pounds as a set. And so we talked about not bolting them, but having them be, you know, loose. I mean, they kind of can't really be moved, but I think one of the, when we were talking about it for gross, someone said, well, you know, someone could pick it up. I'm like, okay, if someone is really intent on stealing something that weighs 350 pounds, they can try to drive on there with a pickup truck and a bunch of guys or people and move it. But I'm like, really? I'm like, really? I mean, 350 pounds? Really? That's just seems, but. Oh, Nate, you're making me kind of say it. How many college kids does it take to move a table? We'll ask them extra weight. We'll make them about 500 pounds, maybe and see what happens. All right. Thank you. So I don't see looking back up. I see two more questions. You see them Pam. I'll go with Karen Winter first, if you can give her. Okay, so I believe it's Karen Winter, but please introduce yourself. I'm Karen Winter. I live at 14 Elm Street. And yeah, I'm excited about this playground, but now that I see the playground equipment, my heart kind of sinks because this is exactly what I was hoping was not going to happen. It looks like a lot of plastic and metal. And I sent to Dorothy Pam because I wasn't sure who else to send to. A lot of pictures of playgrounds in Berlin and Germany. And I don't know how long, how far along is this whole thing? I'm just thinking of completely different kinds of things like the rubber trampolines for kids that are built into the ground, which my daughter who lives there says is the absolute hit with all the parents. It's not that expensive. You see it all over Europe now. And then just stone blocks for people to climb on. You know, this seems to me, I don't know. I'm probably too late. And maybe this is a cost thing, but my heart is just kind of sinking, looking. Everything else looks great. I love the idea of your walkways, the flowers, the grading, the minimal impact, but the play equipment is not what I was hoping to see. So I don't know, is that a done deal? Thank you for your question, Nate? Yeah, I mean, I think this play area, I've changed screens is, you know, we'll have manufactured equipment, but as we've discussed, there's many other elements here that will have all natural, whether it's stone seeding or, you know, wood chips and logs, piece stone and granite blocks. And so there's, you know, another more stone seeding area. So there'll be areas of natural material integrated throughout, you know, this amphitheater area. In terms of the play equipment, the design team, you know, we're, it is plastic and metal, but it's also both, you know, accessible and usable for different age groups and it meets the safety standard. So, Corinne, thanks for your emails. We did forward them and looked at them from Europe, but I mean, they have completely different safety standards. So those trampolines that are at grade, I understand they're, they look a lot of fun, but, you know, as far as I understand, they wouldn't be allowed. They would not meet safety standards. So there's, you know, it is hard to look at other playgrounds. So, you know, even when we were doing Groff Park, I found some images from, yeah, from Germany and England for different water parts. And, you know, when I spoke with different safety officials, I said, well, actually here in America, that's considered a pool, not a stream. So you'd have to have a lifeguard, even though it really is just like, you know, a little waiting pool. So I think, you know, the different safety standards and regulations do make it difficult to implement things that you might see abroad. But my thought is that this area, you know, really is an accessible play area. So the play equipment, you know, there's accessible items that has different age groups. And then there's, you know, all natural material that's integrated and, you know, scattered throughout the rest of the area. So, you know, in terms of the dedication to materials, I mean, this is maybe a third of the playground area. And so most of it would actually be, to me would be considered, you know, a more naturalized play area. So, you know, grass mounds and gravel and stones and, you know, the agility area would be logs and stumps. Yeah, I understand. But to me, that's the heart of the playground. It's the playground. But yes, I guess I don't know anything about safety standards. If it's not possible, it's not possible. I mean, every vendor we've spoken with, would they do not, they no longer use natural wood because it ages, it splinters, it rots within 10 years. They may need to be treated every year with different chemicals. So we've asked a few different vendors and they've all said, you know, 20 years ago, they tried it and they've all stopped carrying it. So the best they would do would be a synthetic wood, you know, synthetic material, try to make it look like wood or rock. And that's very expensive. I see. And what about rock climbing things that are made out of stone, some creative kind of a stone? Yeah, I see, that's in a different part. Okay, thank you, Nate. Yeah, the rock. Nate, just adding on to that, you mentioned, oh, we, you know, talked to three different vendors. So, and the pitches you have, I assume are from one vendor who works with part manufacturers. Did you look at other manufacturers or other vendors and was this the look and feel, the aesthetics that, or was it price? Like, you know, why are you leaning towards this? The images we showed, we liked the vendor, we worked with them before, they're just responsive and, you know, they do have a lot more equipment than that was shown here. So it's a matter now of pushing them a little bit. So these were done, you know, kind of for free just to show what they're capable of. The other vendors, yeah, I mean, I really asked for one, you know, anywhere from three to five designs, one being all natural material and then the other two with, you know, manufactured and none of them provided an all natural design because they say they just don't do it. So, you know, they were all somewhat similar to be honest. I mean, I guess it's just a matter of, you know, some vendors might carry the tables I showed where others are gonna do more wood tables or picnic table style, you know, and so there's small variations between them, you know, because we use this vendor at different parks, you know, all the mechanical equipment, the fasteners, all that stuff is the same. I mean, there may be some, you know, ease of maintenance if, you know, for instance, end caps can be replaced universally throughout the parks and Amherst as opposed to having each park be unique or... But yeah, I do think it's interesting the, you know, we looked at Pulaski, we looked at different parks and it is, it's, you can have natural materials but to have a play structure that's really built up that has slides and everything else, there were, you know, if you haven't found someone that's willing to, quote, build one out of natural wood, you know, it's gonna be a manufactured play structure. Thank you. I see one more hand in the attendees, Pam, Greta and Bruce. Yeah. So that you should be able to speak and introduce yourself or selves, whoever's there. Yeah, hi, it's Bruce Wilcox speaking. I just wanna say how thrilled I am that there's going to be a playground downtown. We've waited many years for this and when our grandchildren are in town, I'm sure we'll be walking over. I'm on Lincoln Avenue. I had a couple of comments. One, I'd like to second Dorothy, Dorothy Pam's point about restrooms. I realize it's not within the purview of your present scheme but some's gotta be done about that. And I wonder if any large buildings are built across the street, if a requirement could be added that they include a public restroom. Again, that's not something you can determine today but I just throw that out there as an idea. The other point is that when we visit our grandchildren who are in San Francisco, every one of the public parks has a sign as you enter the playground that says only those who are accompanied by children may come in the playground that adults can't just hang there on their own. I think that's actually a good idea in a college town and I wonder if that's anything that you had given any thought to. Thank you. I had forgotten about that San Francisco rule. Yeah, Nate, do you have any comments on those or Chris? No, we hadn't talked about that limiting the users. Typically we just say it's open to the public and without really restriction unless someone's trying to vandalize or it's after hours or something but again, something to consider. It is. I will say the parks that I was familiar with in San Francisco, they were completely fenced. So they could be closed at night and that was part of it by entering you who had a child with you. With this one, even with some fencing it would still be very open but it's a good concept. All right, so I do see some board members have their hands. I'm gonna recognize Chris. Christine, can I interrupt you? Yeah, should I click? We have, someone has put a question in the Q&A which I did not believe was. Poss, yeah. So was accessible here. So it's a person who is still attending. I'm not sure if that person wants to speak for himself or... Well, it can be lumped in. So I was gonna, if I recognize Chris I also wanted to mention that we have gotten other comments via email and I think the website and we got a lot of them emailed to us today. I did read through them all. I haven't given them all a hard thought yet but I wanted to ask Chris, how should we start handling those? I know this isn't the only meeting, hearing meeting that we're having. I wanted to say that this is the first of probably two public hearing sessions on this project. We're not complete in our design but we wanted to start out and give you all the information we had so far but we're gonna recommend that you continue this public hearing to your next meeting, which is May 20th and at that time you might want to read through or summarize the comments that you've received online and that have been emailed to us and mentioned the names of the people if you can figure that out but that might be a good time to handle that and you really don't need to feel like you have to wrap this up tonight because we don't have all the answers that you're looking for or that we hoped to present to you. Great, so that would give the board members some time to, you know, we receive all of the comments so we can not only read them, we can think about it and that will adjust possibly the questions we ask at the next meeting. Pam, so back to that Q and A question. So there's no name attached or anything? There is, I'm actually trying to send them a message right now to see if they want to speak during the public comment. Okay, we can wait and Ken flick back to them. I'll move to back to some of the board members. I see three hands up and I believe I saw Janet's go up earlier first so I recognize Janet. Thank you. I just had a quick question or an idea. There seems to be a lot of public interest in the park and I know it's in progress and the DPW and Planning Department being very responsive to comments. Is there some way to kind of post this information and keep people current? Not minute by minute, but you know, people are very interested and is there a place on the website, the Planning Department website that, you know, the latest plans can go or, you know, in a week or so or something like that just to keep people informed? Yeah, thanks. Yeah, there is actually a product webpage and I think we could benefit by updating it and we could do that soon. And then, you know, it's linked to the LSEC commissions. They have like a what's happening or kind of another kind of page on their site. So it's linked to a few different areas so that even to the public works current project. So I think we could update that and maybe put it in the news again and just kind of put it out there. Yeah, maybe even on the town crawl. I mean, it's a very positive development in a time when there's a lot of other, not so positive things. And I think people are very interested. So it'd be nice to show what the town is working on and things moving ahead. And also, you know, obviously you're taking people's comments very seriously. So they could, you know, people can participate. So I appreciate that. Thanks, yeah. Thanks, Nate. Next, I recognize David. Thank you. I'd like to move to continue to close the public hearing and to continue this to the next meeting. There's been a lot of input. There's still a June one deadline. There's been a lot of work already put on this. We have a sizable topic following. And so I'd like to make that motion. Thank you. So I have hands up. I'm gonna just call on Michael whether he wants to second that or if he would like to ask his question he did have his hand up before this, so. I'll second the motion. Okay. Thank you, Michael. And then I recognize Chris Baster per hand is up. So I just wanted to note that you shouldn't close the public hearing because you will be admitting new evidence next time around, but certainly moving to continue the public hearing to May 20th would be a great idea. Thank you for clarification, Chris. And it is seconded. So at this point, I don't see any other hands. So we will continue this probably at the next meeting, Chris, in two weeks. Yes, that's right. Great. Okay, so at this point, Nate, thank you. That's a lot. Thanks for all your hard work. We look forward to seeing kind of the final draft. Great, thanks. I'm gonna stop sharing my screen, Pam. So I think it'll go back to you if you want to and, okay. Chris, Dan, we need to do a roll call vote. We're continuing. Oh, let me get my little, okay, that's right. Thank you. So that's on the table right now to just continue the hearing until the 20th. So I will do a quick roll call. So I'll start with Michael. Yes. Maria. Yes. Jack. Yes. Yay, David. Yes. Doug. Affirmative. Janet. Yes. And I also, yes. So that's unanimous move to two weeks from now. So we'll move on to the next thing on our agenda, which is item four, chapter 40, our smart growth. Karen Sunderborg, housing and planning consultant and David Eisen, architect of AB, ABCAS. Architects and planners present a review of the chapter 40, our smart growth study and proposed draft zoning amendments, including design standards. And I know Chris Besser mentioned that she would like to speak first. So Chris, yeah. Thank you, Christine. I just wanted to give a brief introduction so that people know what we're doing tonight. In 2019, the town of Amherst received a planning for housing production grant from Mass Housing and they contracted with, we contracted with Karen Sunderborg and David Eisen of ABCAS Architects and Planners to analyze zoning and give us some input about affordable housing development opportunities. So we've held three public meetings so far, one last April, one in June and one in December. And we've heard a lot about what is smart growth, what is chapter 40 are. We've gotten a lot of good information. We've got a lot of input from the public at those three meetings. And now the planning board wanted to have an opportunity to find out a little bit more about 40 are and discuss it among themselves because some planning board members weren't able to go to any of those public forums. And the planning board is feeling that they would like to have an opportunity to talk about this. Even the people who did go to those public forums couldn't talk about it with their fellow planning board members. So that's what this is all about. We're gonna have a presentation from the two consultants and then there will be an opportunity for planning board members to ask questions and to discuss this possible proposal. But I wanted to make the point very clear that this is not something that is a firm proposal that's coming before the planning board. This is not a public hearing, although you may wish to hear comments from the public. The planning board will not be making any decisions tonight other than possibly to continue to look into this 40 are as a proposal. But I think some people were worried that this was kind of moving too quickly and there wouldn't be enough opportunity for public input. So this is really just an opportunity the planning board to hear about it, planning board to discuss. And then if there are public comments and you wanna receive those, you can do that. But there will be plenty of other opportunity to talk about this in public forums. So Chris, before you introduce the consultant. So just to be clear, so they're coming today just to present what they've been working on and are they done with this or do they plan to do yet another public talk? Or would it be down the road if decisions were made to do something with 40 are then there would be more meetings for the public and reach out. So I'm not really sure about that. I haven't really talked to the consultants themselves about this. My understanding is that they were intending to do another public forum, a fourth public forum and they have graciously agreed to have this meeting with the planning board specifically with the planning board but the actual determination of whether they will be coming back or whether it will be on staff to make presentations is to be determined. So I'm gonna leave that as an open question but I hope that they will be able to come back and give a presentation to the public and have the public give their input. Certainly the intent on the part of planning department staff is that there will be many opportunities to talk about this in public forum whether or not the consultants are there. Right, so they're a resource that are coming to us today and we can ask hard questions to them about 40. Yes, thank you. Okay, okay. So I should introduce them. Yes. Can I ask you to wait just a second? Yes. So I have been able to bring over David Eisen into the panelists. I'm not sure if Karen is here. We have one person in the attendees named Karen. Just Karen. So I'm gonna ask that person to speak a second. Who are you, Karen? Karen? I'm Karen Soneborg. I'm here. All right, Karen. I'm gonna move you over to the panelists right now. Thank you. Is this a good time to introduce the consultants? Yes, I'm sorry, Chris. Thank you. Yeah, so we're very pleased to have with us tonight Karen Soneborg and David Eisen who have been working with us since probably the winter actually maybe even the fall and summer of 2018 and all through 2019 and participating in these public forums which everybody or a lot of people had an opportunity to attend. So Karen and David, please give your presentation and then I'm sure the planning board and the public will have some questions. Thank you. I just wanna ask Pam or who is in charge of the slides? Nate, are you there? I have it up right at the moment. So I can run with it. Thanks, Pam. I saw that, looks like I could help point if the, I don't know, Pam, did we ever figure that out how I could also do it? I don't have that access right now. You should just be able to give it a try. No. I'm viewing your screens but I'm not sure if I can actually do anything with it. Okay, you should be able to annotate it if you look up at the top. I'm gonna take request remote control from your screen. Oh, all right. Yeah, that'll work. You can take it. And just give them one okay. There you go. But now you have to get rid of the pencil I made. Okay, all right. Pam, do you want me to move it forward and everything and you can? If you're willing to, that would be great. And then I will stick out watching for hands. I can do that. Taking notes. Yep. Perfect. Okay, so I see David, his screen, his video's off and he's able to speak and where's the Karen? Is my voice coming through? It is now. Hello. Okay. I don't see my picture. I don't know if that's a big loss. Can you turn on your video on the bottom left? Is it got a line? Oh, yes. Okay. There we go. All right. Okay. Great. Pam, I don't see the Karen yet in the panelists. I can't get to my panelists thing right all of a sudden. She's, she. I do hear you Karen, but hold on a moment. So Pam, I see that you've given her talking permission, but she's still in attendees. So we don't have a screen for her. Okay. Come out to panelists. There she goes. Great. Karen, if you want to, if you want to turn on your video, you can go down to the bottom left and turn on the video screen. There we go. Fantastic. Welcome. Hello. Welcome. Thank you. So should we get on with it? With the presentation? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hello. Welcome. Thank you. So should we get on with it with the presentation? The floor is yours. Is driving your slides. So. Great. Well, thanks for Chris to Chris for the introduction for. Nate and Pam on the technical support. And you folks for putting us on your agenda. Thank you. David and I are going to go through this slide show as. Expeditiously as we can. So we have time. For questions and comments. The focus of the presentation is to really look at, you know, where we've come, where we are now, and a little bit on where we, where we're headed. Next slide. Okay. You have to double click. Right. Yeah. All right. So the focus of this technical assistance project, which was funded. By the state under, because the town got a housing choice. Designation. The focus was on exploring. Smart growth. A 40 R smart growth overlay district zoning. Which is meant to really. Promote mixed use development, multifamily development. With the inclusion. Of affordable housing requirements. And design. Standards. In addition to the 40 R work, we also asked to provide some input on other potential development opportunities or sites in the community that might be suitable for some amount of affordable housing. The major tasks have been to kind of engaged. And a significant community engagement process. To look at a number of options with respect to potential locations. For a smart growth overlay district. And to do research and analysis regarding to. Zoning and policies. That have worked effectively in other places that might resonate with. In other words, I think it's important to look at the design standards. Once again, importantly design standards because the zoning is by right design standards become very important. To protect community character. And then to prepare a draft by law. We have here tonight too, we'll get into it to present least the preliminary components of that. Bylaw. So, with respect to what we hope to touch base on tonight, we're going to just talk a little bit about where 40 R is currently working. Look back a little bit to where we have been going. And we're to get to this point in the planning process tonight. We're going to talk about some of the issues that we've, we're going to talk about the planning process. And talk about, you know, how a town. Establishes a 40 R district. And then get into the major components of the proposed. Preliminary draft zoning. Also. Speaking bit on next. Steps. Next slide. So this map shows. Where what communities have a 40 R districts in place. And that told us to have 49 districts across 42 municipalities. With as a rise zoning for over 19,000 projected units. And getting, you know, approaching 4,000 units that are being built. Or have been completed. So, you can see that the bulk of the four yard districts are in the eastern part of the state, but certainly there are a number of four yard districts in proximity to Amherst. Next slide. Including East Hampton, which passed a 40 R district with a projected. And then we have a 40 R district. And then we have a 40 R district. And then we have a 40 R district. Here in a two housing units. 50 of which have been completed and 18 units approved. And those 18 units are in a mixed use. Development. Where the developer put it. Two. Properties. Together. The first floor is retail. There are some handicap accessible units in the rear. And the second floor is retail. And the third floor is retail. And the fourth floor. That includes four affordable housing units. Next slide. And North Hampton. Actually has. Has three at this point. 40 R districts. Two in. Various. Two in separate phases of the village Hill. Project that involved the redevelopment of the state housing. And then we have a total of. On 30 acres with a projected 429 units of which. 149 have been approved. And with respect to a mix of housing, it includes single family housing, multi-family housing, home ownership, rental, has some special needs housing. Some workforce housing. True mix of housing types to address a range of housing needs. And the city has approved more recently. A third 40 R district that centers on only one building. Which is sponsored by the value. CDC. For 31 units of enhanced SRO housing. The city decided instead of doing what they typically would do a 40 B development. They decided to do a two to three year plan. And they wanted to do a three year plan for our process. Mainly because. A, they had a template already in place that they were comfortable with, and they felt that they could. Readly adapt. This particular. Project to the 40 R zoning. Template. They also had a working relationship with the HCD and had financial incentives that come with 40R that would help make the project financially more feasible. Next slide. So this slide just points to some of the you know major milestones that we have realized in this planning process so far. First we conducted outreach to housing stakeholders to almost 30 interviews largely to get early input on key challenges and opportunities for 40R or other affordable housing developments. Getting guidance on what they thought or appropriate locations for a 40R district as well as potentially other properties that might be conducive to including some affordable housing development. We held our first community meeting on April 4th. We brought in representatives from various state entities including mass housing which provided funding for this project DHCD which is the approval entity for this for any 40R district. The Citizens Housing and Planning Association as well as the Massachusetts Smart Growth Alliance and we went through local and state housing needs, smart growth principles as well as 40R more specifically and this particular technical assistance project. We then moved on to a site analysis strategy that relied heavily on what we heard from the first community meeting and through the interview process where we were where we obtained a whole list of site selection criteria that would be critical in trying to locate a 40R district as well as input on what folks thought were reasonable locations for a 40R district. We held a second community meeting on June 4th to obtain additional input on priority site selection criteria and best locations for a 40R district. All these community meetings had a presentation and break small breakout groups so there was real kind of engagement of participants in discussions and feedback towards the project. I should add at the second community meeting we based on our initial input we came in kind of focusing on three potential 40R districts which included the downtown North Amherst and Pomeroy Village. Based on the input we got from this meeting we added a fourth location which was East Amherst and then we went back and we looked at what was being discussed and in the June 4th meeting and realized there was a large agreement that those four areas where would be good smart growth areas for 40R but there didn't seem to be any consensus on which was the best area so we went through a process of revisiting the site selection criteria prioritizing them and then trying to reflect on those by the locations the four locations that were identified and based on that analysis the downtown edged out the other three areas but it was clear that all four areas would be suitable and so we decided to take the downtown on as the first location and given how the town's experience with that looked to the other locations as possibilities in the future. We then held a third community meeting in December 19th to go over this location selection process and obtain additional input on how we can make 40R work best and introduced design standards and got some feedback on design standards that are would be integrated into the actual zoning. From state requirements and state guidance as well as looking at other 40R zoning bylaws and then reflecting on all the input that we've obtained through the course of the project we drafted a 40R bylaw we took a stab at it and we're going to present the key components of it tonight. We have planned on having a fourth community meeting to get input on the draft bylaw and yes David I have been committed to doing that given COVID-19 becomes a little dicey but stay tuned to that and let me also mention that the presentations from the three community meetings are on the town's website so people who are curious about kind of the focus of those meetings please go to the website. Next slide. Next slide. There we go. Well you can imagine through the length of this project and all the meetings and we have heard quite a lot from folks on comments and issues that we really need to respond to in preparing this zoning. Some of the themes that we have frequently heard are just listed below. There was general agreement if not consensus that smart growth zoning makes sense in Amherst and it would be a useful tool to explore. Another comments or theme was the town should guide development to areas that are most appropriate for greater density and away from rural areas and environmentally sensitive sites away from green fields and in areas where mixed uses and density are appropriate and residents want a vital downtown with mixed uses. They also want to maintain the historic quirky character of the downtown too but there is I think general support for the notion that the downtown needs more investment. Another perspective has been that the town lacks meaningful design standards and 40R provides a vehicle for really articulating clear standards that resonate with the community and the town's character. Very importantly the integration affordable housing is important and that's something in the downtown that's not mandated in zoning. The town does have inclusionary zoning in places you know for special permit but there was some you know chagrin about doing development in the downtown and doing new housing and not having any inclusion of affordability. It's worth mentioning that we have heard that there should be some consideration for coupling an adoption of a 40R smart growth district with some down zoning in the downtown in the BG district because five-story development in that district is allowed by right. Because of the concerns regarding the inclusion of affordable housing and design standards it would be advantageous for the town to have developers apply the 40R permitting as opposed to the underlying zoning which is allowed and thus getting preventing some of the problems that some perceive cropped out as far as new development in the downtown area and parking remains a challenge. Next slide. This flow chart just shows kind of the major steps that are needed to establish a zoning a 40R district. I mean it's basically a dosy-dough with the state and with this locality not being able to move forward with with zoning with the approval without preliminary approval from the state and we have been ongoing discussions with the state and keeping them apprised of where we are in the process and getting their input so that has been I think very helpful. Next slide. So now we get to the major components of the bylaw. It is important to note that this bylaw based on 40R statute regulations must be all inclusive without reference to other zoning in the the town's bylaw. The first section of the bylaw states a purpose and and we have included language that basically states to foster a range of housing opportunities along with mixed use development components to be proposed in a distinctive and attractive site development program that promotes compact design preservation of open space and a variety of transportation options including enhanced pedestrian access to nearby to employment and nearby services. We have I mean and we have added that that the purpose is all to be in accordance with the purposes of the Massachusetts General Law Chapter 40R. Under the purpose it also lists some objectives that range from diversifying housing tops for types for a variety of incomes and ages and household sizes and establishing quality and design standards in a fair and effective development permitting and approval process. Purpose is sustainable and pedestrian development, friendly development and another objective relates or a couple of objectives relates to generating positive tax revenues and also additional financial resources that come with 40R zoning approval and development. Section two includes a list of definitions that are in the bylaw. Section three is establishment. This section defines the boundaries of the downtown Amherst smart road overlay districts and will and references a zoning map that would be created. Section four on applicability. It clarifies reinforces that this bylaw is all inclusive. It states that the developer also may apply the requirements of the underlying zoning over the zoning in the in the overlaid district. Section five is permanent uses with residential projects including multifamily mixed use development also including multifamily development includes parking and other accessory units other uses such as commercial office cultural civic institutional or other non-residential uses and then next page next slide chapter six is on affordability requirements. You know at least 20% of housing units must be affordable and eligible for inclusion in the subsidized housing inventory but 25% in the case of rental developments and that would allow allow all units in that development to count towards the SHI. A basic requirement is that there has at least 20% of all units created in the zoning district must be affordable. Section seven under plan approval it you know stipulates the as-of-right permitting and approval process it designates the planning board as the plan approval authority and the new 40-hour regulations do allow the PA to adopt administrative rules and regulations but they have to be approved by DHCD and then it goes into some plan approval procedures with a pre-applic application process a list of required materials as part of the application states that fees are allowed but they have to be approved by DHCD as reasonable. Lows for the circulation of the application to other boards for review and comment and an important public hearing is essential and peer review is also allowed. Section nine next page and regarding plan approval decisions and this is important plan disapproval is only allowed when an application is incomplete does not meet zoning requirements and it is not possible to adequately mitigate significant adverse project impacts on nearby properties by means of suitable conditions. Waivers by the planning board can be allowed but not affordability requirements they cannot be waived and project phasing is allowed but you know once again the affordability requirements are an important part of that and has to be they have to be proportionate to numbers of units included in each phase. Section 10 deals with any change to plans after approval allowing minor changes without the need for public hearing but any major changes must be processed through a new application. Section 11 goes on to design standards and I'm going to pass the baton to David who will take up from here. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here and just sort of 10 seconds of background. Karen and Abacus have been working together for what a dozen years. Cities and towns all over Massachusetts on affordable housing planning and Karen's area of expertise is the process and procedures and policies where architects and planners it's the design and a physical form. So section 11 is design standards which is about planning the physical form. So they're called design standards and they deal with a series of subjective issues. It deals with design but these are required so it's assumed that there's a certain amount of negotiation but only to a limited extent. These are requirements that are meant to protect the best interest of the town and they're intended to reflect the kind of vision of the community and there are diverse set of opinions in Amherst like there are in most communities but we're trying to distill out of everything we hear a kind of sense of where Amherst could or should go to meet a broad range of issues. You know want to maintain the small town character but if it's completely unaffordable to the vast majority of people because there's enough housing that tends to be a problem. So what we're trying to do with the design standards is preserve the positive aspects of the existing town character. There are places and buildings that people really love improve the pedestrian experience. There are places where there are big swaths of asphalt and lots of curb cuts. Can we improve those areas with the design standards? Make it good for business. If it improves the pedestrian experience if we get people living downtown that's probably going to be a really good thing for business and we're in a challenging period right at the moment. Nobody knows what the future holds but we're assuming that there will be a kind of rebound that people will want to go to bars and restaurants and stores and do the things they've done and we should at least plan for that even if nobody really knows what the future holds. And a big component is affordable housing development and I think that's one of the major things that triggered the whole 40R process and procedures at the state level. So the goal with the standard speak in by laying out goals for design and that's the context in which designers and developers do their planning and decision making. And they allow a certain amount of discretion on the part of architects and developers because you can't dictate good design. You can't tell everybody exactly what kind of windows go where but you can set the parameters in which those those plans are developed. And the trade off is this. You have far more rigorous standards than you have with normal zoning. But on the other hand if developers and property owners meet those standards it's as of right in and accelerates the process and there's a kind of certainty there. That's the kind of public private deal that's being made. So next next slide. Then the state reviews the standards. So a city or town can set up onerous requirements. And the state will say these are two onerous. These will prohibit really just about any kind of development. We can't allow this to pass as 40R. But you know we don't want to get to that point. We want to send something to the state that really is pretty reasonable and is a win win win situation. So the design standards are based on what's called form based zoning and people on the planning board may or may not be familiar with that standard zoning. It's about crunching numbers and uses. And if you meet those requirements you know you're good to go. Form based zoning is about design. It's about massing. It's about proportions. It's about materials. It's about articulation. And the challenge is to make those requirements really clear without trying to dictate that tends to be counterproductive. And that's why this is a step in the process. You know we have what we think are a pretty solid set of design standards and by law but we want input. And the sort of standard line is we are experts on planning and design. You are experts on Amherst and we want to work with you on that. So the I think the next slide you'll see this in a map. The standards define three sub districts. So we have a relatively large 40-yard district that we're proposing but it's different on different sides. So and I didn't make up these names. These are standard names based on form based zoning. Urban center, North Pleasant, East Pleasant triangle. They're really the downtown areas of Amherst downtown. General Urban is a budding West Cemetery which is a little bit different. You know it's not bounded by a street on the east side. It's not bounded by a street on the west side. It's removed from North Pleasant but it seems to be an extension of the downtown area. And then Suburban, not necessarily Suburban but Suburban facing North Prospect, Halligan and Coles Lane. You know these are buts residential neighborhood and it can't be and shouldn't be the same design standards as on North Pleasant is downtown. And the standards do provide basic dimensional requirements, heights, setbacks, along with site planning, facade streetscape and other kinds of requirements. So go to the next slide. So there you see and this is it's a little blurrier than I would like but you can see the outlines of the 40 R District. You can see the kind of heavy hatching along North Pleasant triangle and East Pleasant. You can see there's a triangle on the east side. And that's the second sub district, which is not the Urban Center. And if you go, you'll see this up on the north, north of Triangle Street. And then on the left hand on the west hand side abutting the residential districts. So these are, you know, the standards are significantly different for those areas. And then next slide. So the next four slides are the kind of illustrations that will be part of this. So you know, most standard zoning doesn't have illustrations. There'll be a series of illustrations. So there are lots of words in the design standards, but also pictures. You know, how do you avoid huge swaths of asphalt by making this kind of parking guidelines actually part of the requirements? Next. So building articulation, again, not part of standard zoning. Articulation on the first floor, which identifies this, and then this would not be, this would be in your long North Pleasant, this would be different in the different sub districts. But you can see the section, you can see the articulation at the top and at the bottom. This is very characteristic of the older buildings in your downtown and lots of downtowns. So this isn't meant to be a stylistic dictate, but to accentuate the pedestrian zone and to give some profile along along the top. This is tends to be what makes good downtowns. Next slide. Streetscape, this may or may not be part of it. The streets are already in place. To what extent do we want to require developers to develop what's outside of their property? That's a question to just be included. Might there be new streets, especially towards the east between the first and the second sub district? Might there be a new street if property owners get together, aggregate their properties and instead of having big backyards and big parking lots, did do a new street. So that's one of the questions we have. Next slide. And facade design guidelines. This is not to be, this is not meant as a picture of what the facade should look like, but it's meant to define some of the key elements we expect developers, property owners and their architects to provide. These are described in words, but here are pictures as well. And you can see there's some dimensions there. And there will be more illustrations and different illustrations with the different sub districts. But the first thing we wanted to find out is, like, do these sub districts make sense? You know, we want, if you think they're more substantial revisions, we want to hear about it. And then we'll fill in all the holes and tie things down. And then the final slide is a series of questions. And these are sort of Karen's questions, my questions, I can, I've got them, I can go through these. These are some of the areas where we want input, require all affordable units to retain affordability in perpetuity. So that's a, there are, you know, state requirements, but there are some, you know, local decisions that can be made on this. Often there's a minimum project size to require affordability, like 13 units and above, might developers want to keep parcel small and stay under that so they don't have to provide affordable, affordable units to where do we want the threshold to be? Should there be accessibility and also potentially sustainability requirements beyond meeting building code? For example, sitting in a city of Boston for larger developments requires meeting lead gold standards. Setbacks from the street. Is it appropriate to set minimum? Oh, I'm sorry. This is parking. Big, big, big question. And one, we haven't really tackled because it really is a much bigger issue. Should there be minimum parking requirements, let's say one space per unit or one space for 300 square feet of retail or office? Should there be a maximum requirement, which is unusual that, but more towns like Cambridge has the maximum amount of parking. So a developer may say, Hey, the market's telling me two spaces per unit. That's what I want to do. And came drill say, Nope, too many cars on the street. We don't want to do that. So we really want to input on that. We're feeling like a long pleasant buildings should be a minimum of 15 feet away from the curb line, but a maximum of 20 feet. You know, if you want to retail district on a main street, you don't want buildings to be set back 35 or we don't believe buildings should be set 35 feet back behind a front yard. But again, we want to hear from people. 40 our street design requirements. I showed the slide of street design requirements. Those be required. The three sub districts are people feeling like, Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And these haven't been put out in public. We heard over and over and over there should be sub districts as different characters. Are these the right dividing lines in the right sub districts? And single family homes? Um, should those be allowed in the two denser developments? And we can probably come up with a lot more questions. And you may have a lot of those those we came up with. And then the final step, we want to resolve all of this work with the state on obtaining the go ahead for local local adoption. And then Karen, I don't know if you want to add anything or whether we want to turn it over. Can I just add something? I mean, clearly, there's going to be a whole process of digesting the draft between the planning board and other public meeting and to work towards even going to the state for for the next next step, one of the points that out. Maybe I could add something more. We want your opinion, but well, I could I guess as these questions are raised, we can we can we can deal with them. And so I guess this is a 28 days document. So there is a lot to digest. Thank you. There you're not kidding. There's a lot to unpack here. A lot of good information. Thank you so much. That's a lot. I'm sure we're all like whoa. If you're willing to take questions now, I was going to open it up to the board first. So low out there. If anyone has questions, I see Maria has a question. Yes, thank you for that. I went to I think all all the public forms that you held and didn't manage to speak to any of you, but I really liked a lot of ideas proposed. And there is so much here I'm going to try to stay big picture and not get into the weeds right away. I guess maybe the big picture thing for me is the sort of demising line of how you create this overlay district. I looked really closely at this afternoon. And there are a lot of different owners of the parcels. But generally, I liked your idea of just putting the parking in the back, creating a streetscape. And there was a little bit of conflicting information here and there about whether it was a zero street setback or 15. And it sounds like you're heading more toward the 15. But I guess, yeah, it would have been nice to have a little more of a fine tooth comb and dividing the sub districts because there are some areas where it doesn't quite make sense. Like, for example, the post office is included. And there's this church that owns a bigger parcel, but we've divided it into two different sort of sub districts. So I guess I'd like to know more about. Do you see this as a general map that maybe it's malleable as far as its boundaries, but that we stick with like your idea of alright, if you want to create a streetscape, use these set of criteria. If you want to create more of a transition area, use these sets because right now I think the dividing of the blocks seem like they need a little more study. But the idea behind like urban versus transition versus residential, it feels right as far as what you've proposed. But just sort of big picture question is, you know, did you study the parcels really closely or were you just sort of mapping like based on general circulation of cars versus pedestrian? This is how you came up with that sort of dotted black line. That's the overlay boundary, because there's some areas that still feel like it's a little too heavy handed as far as it's this, you know, and so I wonder if you can speak more about just the overall, you know, the boundary that black dashed line that's in the sub district map you're showing. There's a lot of negotiation. So if we did like a time lapse of the different versions of that, you would see that black line wiggling around quite a bit. So we we we work with a number of people, I mean, Karen and I and Nate was very involved and Chris was very involved are just, you know, intuitive sense of what made sense. And it's not like this is right and everything else is wrong. And again, this is why we're we want input. It was our best guess as we're we, you know, allow the opportunities that 40 R brings with it, we're mixed use development, bigger development, multifamily housing development kind of made sense. I mean, with a particular areas, you know, I guess, you know, along, along North Pleasant, where the post office is eliminated. And I think the well, there was always plans for the fire station. But then the church with the larger more modern church piece behind it and the, well, I'm sorry, I'm jumping on another place. But I guess the more southern portion that's closer to the existing, taller historic downtown, that area looks like it's, it's maybe needs one more study. I love what you did closer to the two new developments up toward Tendrick Park. I think that what you propose makes a lot of sense. And the scale there makes a lot of sense. But I think that part that transitions between the existing historic downtown going north on North Pleasant, there's a lot of pieces there that I'm not sure are movable or changeable. And that maybe maybe that that should be considered, you know, some of them need to just be considered as landmarks and then others. And then you work from that. I think in your proposal, like from the massing, you did keep the church. And I think almost everything else is limited other than the newer developments, which I think is fine. I think I just yeah, I think that this little more finer tooth combing of like figure out the area in the southern part. But generally, I mean, the what you sort of come up with toward the east side of Kendrick Park, I think is really great. I hope that happens one day. But I spy specific, I mean, there was like a like a 50 page document of your form based code and took a lot of go through. So I guess if there's future meetings, we could go into like specific line by line. I mean, unless you want that now. But I guess, with the time we have, I was trying to stay more big picture kind of ideas. So yeah, I don't have a specific block. And I'm not sure you want the answers like that tonight. But yeah, now that's a good question, Maria. David and Karen, how would you be? Do you have any idea? Because I assume you work with other towns and other planning boards. What would be the best way to get our comments, detailed comments? I mean, we can give you lots of general. But how does that usually work? Okay. Yeah, Karen. I think the best to funnel them through Chris or Nate. And so they can see them and then they can channel them to us. Okay, that's good. Chris, it would be good to have some detailed comments and if they could be in writing, that would be terrific. And that's what I was thinking. Would you prefer us to like mark up the document? I think we are, we got it as one giant PDF. But if there's a way we can get one that we can do markup or something and then submit our comments to you. Sure. Do we want to send it as a word document? Sometimes it's tough getting 23 different word versions back as markups. Sometimes it's better just to get a list here are the 14 items from different people, but I'm certainly open. I don't know. You know, we, every line matters, every line of writing matters, every line on that map matters. And as an architect and planner, we work under other people's zoning. So I know the importance of all of this. So we welcome whatever form the comments take. So I appreciate, I don't know why we're going weird. How many speakers do we have? Anyways, I appreciate that comment. So maybe at this point, we should just do a bullet list, writing all of our comments to Chris. And then when we get to a finer version down the road, maybe that, you know, doing that and refine, but at least this first round, we Chris would get a feel of, because a lot of times, you know, what happens a lot of us are saying the exact same comments over and over again. And it could be comments that we really like a section too. So Maria, is there anything else or I'm going to why I'm going to move on to Doug, but first, I'm going to recognize Chris, but Maria, do you have anything else? Okay, you're good. So Chris, I'm going to recognize you and then Doug, you're going to be next. Okay, I was just going to say I agree that the bulleted list is the better way of communicating. I think that a markup is just really confusing when you have so many people working on a document. And we did actually get some comments from Rob Crowner. I don't know if any of you have seen them that could be that the consultant just saw them. But he sent in a list of comments and questions that he had. And then David responded to them. And there were all kinds of things like did you really mean to say this on page five? So I think, you know, referring to particular pages and particular paragraphs, and if you can find a paragraph number to refer to that will be helpful. General comments would also be useful. But, you know, we'll take them in whatever form. But I think that a bulleted list would be best. And Chris, when would you like our comments back to you? Um, I think if you could get them back, you know, let's see, what we what day is this? This is the 6th of May. Maybe by the 3rd of June. We have a meeting scheduled for the 3rd of June. And that might be that would give you a little bit less than a month. Reasonable. So like get them to you a couple of days before days before that. Yes. So maybe the week the Wednesday of the week before, which would be what? Maybe the 28th or 27th of May? Is that Wednesday? So if that's clear with everyone, we'll go with get your comments to Chris a bullet item listing out. And it can be positive to things you really like. But your comments to Chris by the 27th of May. Okay, great. Chris, anything else or I'm going to move to Doug? No, no, nothing else. Great. I recognize Doug. And I didn't haven't been to any of the public meetings and I'm new to the planning board. So I'm just figuring out this whole 4040 our regiments. But I did look at the presentation you made back in December. And so my first question was, how did the audience react or feel about the massing that you presented through the entire zone? Well, in one of the things is always dangerous doing that kind of massing, because people sometimes think, Oh, this is what they're proposing to build. And we're not proposing anything. This is an illustration of the kinds of things that could happen. It's also dangerous, because the current zoning would allow most of that to take place. There was certainly, um, there's some concerns about the size. I think one of the things that got said repeatedly was, well, you know, I can imagine it being that big along North, North prospect, you know, as long as it wasn't just a one five story building from bottom to top, I think people are reacting against what would what has been built. And a bunch of people said, you know, when you're getting closer to residential neighborhoods, we don't want these big blocky buildings. So and that's in the design guidelines of sort of pushing down. So what was blocked out? Some of that would not be allowable, even though we did that modeling in the design standards as written because it scales it down towards the perimeter. Okay, and other people can weigh in. I mean, everybody filters what they what they hear. But there were certainly concerns. And, you know, that's how they were addressed. And is it are you getting a lot of feedback? No. Okay, good. So I was puzzled why what I thought was a regulatory regimen focused on residential. Why it seemed in some of the locations in the text, it is also applicable to commercial office, cultural, civic, institutional and non residential uses. Why is that part of this and not dictated and left in our basic zoning? Um, I can respond to that. The the zoning has to be all inclusive. So whatever in the 40 are has been included in the bylaw and the 40 are does promote mixed uses and housing in in areas where there are multiple uses. But they the state didn't want to preclude other types of uses and development in a district as well. So it's Did I answer your question? Well, I'm not in a way that I understood. So let's keep 50% needs to be housing. But but it makes use in a mixed use property. At least I think it's at least 51% has to be housing. But there can be other developments within the district that don't include housing. And so those and so those developments would still be governed by our basic zoning code. Uh, yeah, well, we included we included those uses in the bylaw. But this is Nate, I can't raise my hand. Doug, I think one thing is if if someone decides to use a 40 are they can only use 40 are so if in the downtown, we said it was only for residential uses, the only time the only thing they could do would be apartment buildings. And so in the downtown, we'd want a mixed use building under 40 are so that's why you need to allow other uses. So in Northampton, in some communities, they have only a residential 40 are, but it's in an area where they don't need or want commercial or non residential uses. But in the downtown, if we want someone to use a 40 are, and we want it to be mixed use buildings, we have to allow that within the 40 are otherwise they can only do just the residential piece. So they can't, they can't mix and match. They couldn't say, Okay, well, I'm gonna do a little part of my product will be under 40 are part will be under the underlying zoning. It's basically all 40 are are nothing. Okay. But we are encouraging along North Pleasant, that there be commercial, be retail, be restaurants on the ground floor, and housing up above. But instead of housing, it could be office up above. Partially, but majority of it has to be housing. So it seems appropriate to have mixed use at least along North Pleasant and along triangle. That's what makes it a downtown. Okay, and I guess my last question is, is it correct that this really only works as a desirable framework for development if we substantially down zone, the areas that are in place now. And that should have been on our list of questions. I regret but even though, you know, Karen, you brought that up. In our discussions, a couple of days ago with Chris and Nate and Karen and I, that was our sense that would make it much more effective to do the down zoning. But but there are still in the, in the 40 are kind of the preliminary boundaries, there's districts, the limited business districts and the 40 are would would apply would likely be there would be likely instead of to use 40 are instead of the underlying zoning. So that would be a boom to those areas. It's the it's the general business area where we would like to promote the use of 40 are instead of the underlying zoning. Thank you. I recognize Michael. Yes, a process question. If we're going to submit bulleted lists of comments on the on the presentation we just saw, I presume that's on the presentation as well as on the proposed zoning bylaw. If if we are going to get those, I wonder if Chris could circulate to the planning board members the comments of the other planning board members is I would think it would be very useful to get somebody's idea and spin off an idea off someone else's idea. So that if as as comments come in, Chris, whether you could send them out to us and thereby soliciting even more comments from those of us who'd already made them. I don't know whether that's a violation of the open meeting law or not, but it would certainly be helpful if you could keep in communication with us on this issue as things come in to you. I might be able to generally characterize the types of comments I'm receiving, but I can't really send out specific comments because of the open meeting law. So, you know, if I start to get bulleted lists of comments in, I could send out something that says, you know, people seem to be concerned about the height of buildings or people seem to be concerned about setbacks or something like that. But it would have to be very general. So I think what I'm imagining is you would send your comments to me by the 27th of May. And then we could have this as a topic of conversation on June 3rd, and then you could still have more time after that to submit more comments. This is not there's no timeline here. We're not like trying to rush this through or anything. We really want people to be able to talk about it. We want your input. So, you know, I think if we if we get the comments and we discuss them on June 3rd, then you can send in more comments and, you know, it'll be an ongoing process. Does that make sense? That makes perfect sense. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. That's great. I recognize Jack. Hello. I just want to say I'm I'm wondering, I apologize, but I have I have to I have to get up really early tomorrow morning. I was at a very, very long day. So I'm just wondering I'll hang in there for a little bit longer. And I apologize. Like I want to understand this better. And if you could kind of condense this material Chris in an email that, you know, what we're supposed to specifically review because we've gotten a lot of emails lately. Yeah. So, but again, I apologize for needing to check out. But if we're if we're concluding soon, then I'll hang in there a little bit longer. That's all I had to say. Thanks. Thank you, Jack. So at this point, I'm not seeing any other members with David did just raise his hand. Hold on. And I only see one attendee right now. So, Chris, I think Jack had a good suggestion. If you can just send a summary, maybe just like, what are our expectations and what your expectations are? What we're actually reviewing? Is it? Yeah. Okay, that'd be great. I'm going to recognize David. And then I also see Janet. And then I'll go to attendees. If there are any other attendees out there, I see one hand, I think it's a Brian, if there's anyone else put your hand in and we'll get to that. And then hopefully, we'll be sort of finishing up with that. Because we are over three hours right now. And we'll move on to the rest of the meeting. So right now I recognize David. Thank you. Thanks for the presentation. There's a lot of meat here. And I'm looking forward to working through it. I just wanted to, and perhaps I don't, I just wanted to make sure I am understanding at least one part of it. And it seems as if the, in terms of the residential development, if a proposed project has fewer than 13 residential units, then the affordability issue doesn't come into play under the the bylaw draft as drafted. Can I respond to that right now? Please. I am really glad that you brought that up, because I did want to discuss that tonight. You know, the state used, they, you know, they have some, some guidance and suggestions, and they had a plugin figure at 13, and it didn't make sense to me. I thought it was too high. And, you know, looking at other 40-hour bylaws, they don't specify minimum project size. They just have that 20% and 25%. And given that the overall percentage of affordability in the district as a whole has to be at least 20%. 13 units does just does not make sense. And so my strong recommendation for your consideration would be just to eliminate any minimum project size in that particular section of the bylaw. Food for thought. Thanks. Does that answer any more, David? Yeah. I think there was. Shoot, but it flew out. You know what, David, I'll call you. Oh, no. Yes, I had. So could you, could you, um, could you describe, I mean, some of the financial incentives for that are available utilizing the 40R versus, you know, the, the, the, the absence of any using the 40B. But so, so that we can get a taste of some of that carrot as well. Um, I'll respond to that. See, see, there are no financial incentives under 40B. The big incentive under 40B is density and other waivers to zoning. In 40R, there is usually increased in density because there's certain, depending on the type of housing, there are certain thresholds of density that have to be obtained under the, through projects in the district. But there are also what's called incentive payments. So based on the incremental increase in number of units projected in the district, the, the, there is a sliding scale on the amount of payments that the state will make to the community. There is also a $3,000 density bonus payment that comes with every affordable unit that is permitted in the zoning district through the 40R. So, you know, quite frankly, in districts that are, that are designated for 40R that aren't very built up, there is obviously a bigger opportunity for these incentive payments as opposed to districts that have already, you know, are more built up where there's, there are fewer parcels that are undeveloped. And those are the main incentives. I should say, also add that communities that have 40R districts are more competitive for a whole range of discretionary funding estate. An example are MassWorks infrastructure funds, where a lot of communities that have 40R districts have also married their kind of development with these extra discretionary funds and capital improvements. And that's another example. Another carrot is that if a, and this is not, actually, this is not a big issue for amours, but for towns that are still under the 10% affordability threshold, the state has actually denied some comprehensive permit projects that the towns have kind of fought against if the town was making a good faith effort over their 40R district. Another example is bonus points, being more competitive for state funding for school development. I mean, those are some examples of some benefits from 40R. Thank you. I'm going to move and recognize Janet. Thank you. There's parts of, there's, I guess, there are attractive things to this proposal and the 40R district. I am pleased to see the recognition of the need for parking and having it in the rear. I'm a little concerned about a broad waiver of that requirement, since that seems to lead us down a path. I'm very much in favor of an increased affordable housing requirement. I've been pushing for a comprehensive affordable housing requirement for all development in Amherst. I like the idea of setbacks on the upper floors and the thoughtfulness to the pedestrian and shopper experience. And I think that's a central issue in economic development, like what will draw people downtown. And I love the idea of clear and consistent zoning rules that apply to everyone and having attractive buildings. People, developers can understand what they can build and residents can understand what can be built and not see all sorts of waivers and things. But I still see a lot of possibility for waivers and a lot of language about waivers in this draft. So I do want to say this because I think I was probably at the inception of this idea of a 40R downtown more than three years ago in a zoning subcommittee meeting. And I'm very concerned that the residents most affected by this proposal were not contacted and haven't been pulled into this process. This proposal of a 40R district downtown, mostly along North Pleasant Street, I think initially across Kendrick Park, was made by a planning board member in a zoning subcommittee meeting as a thought experiment. And this thought experiment has gone on. And through this process has always the downtown has always been listed as prime target for this proposal. There are three historic districts around the downtown. The downtown residents are extremely active. They proposed a residential properties bylaw. They meet monthly, very engaged people that they're really kind of protecting their neighborhood from being kind of squished in between UMass and all the activities downtown. I know a lot of people they really support more development and more building downtown, but they really want to participate in what that looks like and the size and scale of that. A lot of people who attended the 40R public meetings weren't there because they knew about the meeting from advertising in the town but because people personally contacted them. Like I was personally contacted and didn't hear about this meeting and I've contacted people from the neighborhood in subsequent meetings. If you attended a public meeting and you felt that in attendance form, you were never notified about the next meeting. There was no information about the 40R proposal. It was on the planning department website or the planning board website. It's been sort of hidden away on the housing trust fund. Even the planning board hasn't been part of this process. I'm almost astonished that we've come to this point. This very large proposal for reover zoning, a huge change in zoning in downtown is only we're only meeting now because of asking for it last January. You asked questions about how people reacted to this proposal in December 19th. I think people were really taken aback. A lot of people were upset and stunned at the size of the buildings and they've actually gotten the buildings that are being proposed are actually have gone from four stories to five stories in the BL. A lot of people were talking about not having a canyon of buildings on both sides of East Pleasant, North Pleasant Street. People talked about preserving New England's Amherst's New England Village look. It's funky look. Harvard Square has a similar look. It has a mix of tall buildings and small buildings. I don't really understand why one corner of Amherst was picked as the look for the rest of the downtown. I have a lot of questions about why this district was built, picked, the scale, the lack of involvement of the people who were most impacted by it. I hope this is really the beginning of a discussion with the planning board and the neighborhoods around the downtown. Maybe it's a good idea. Ford VR is a great idea, but maybe it's a good idea to start smaller using one Northampton or in a different part of town where it's not so consequential or so big to just basically say we're going to go from three floors of zoning to five stories in this scale. I have a lot of very specific questions about different parts of this, but I know it's late. I'd hate to have us all say, well, this is the proposal and let's just go forward. This is the site and let's go forward. We haven't even talked to the people who are most involved affected by it. I could say more, but that's the gist of what I'd like to say tonight. We have two attendees. Can I just add something here? And I appreciate Janet's comments. You know, it wasn't until it was well into the process when we even landed on the downtown. And that landing came from a lot of input. So, you know, we really try to go through a deliberate process of trying to identify the best place to start with the 40R district with lots of input from various folks. Now, you know, we're still, we're still not the process of getting public input has a ways, long ways to go here. I mean, we're planning the four, you know, hoping to have a fourth public hearing where we'll talk specifically about the draft bylaw and and really encourage those in the neighbors to attend. There are also if the planning board decides to move forward, there'll be required hearings where we provide another opportunity to for input. And, you know, we certainly look for, you know, more instead of less feedback in the community. And just to add to that, I mean, you raise some really good questions. And a lot of your questions are process questions. Why didn't you? Why can't you? Those are reasonable. And any ones that can make it their way into notes about specific things, you know, whether it's the outline, like you think that that's a particular problem to include this property, or questions about, I mean, five stories, you know, to circle that and say, is this appropriate everywhere? You know, those are good comments, those would be from you. And then it could become part of a larger process. So appreciate more input on on all of these issues from you. She didn't muted. Christine, you're muted. Thank you. Chris, best of all, I see your handout. Yeah, am I muted? No, I'm not. Okay, you did. I had a printer going in the back. And thank you for reminding me. I wanted to acknowledge that we received an email from Maureen Adams today. And she is a neighbor. She lives on Beston Street, I believe. So she's very interested in what happens in the downtown and also in what happens to neighborhoods west of West of the downtown. She had asked me to read her questions. But I think you have all received her questions and can consider them carefully. And I think Karen and David received her questions today too. So the next time we gather to talk about this topic, you know, maybe you'll have had a chance to consider some of her questions. I think it's very late in the evening. And I don't really feel that I want to read all of those questions right now. But I wanted to acknowledge that we have received this very detailed and concerned email. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. We'll all take a look at that. I did see the email come in this afternoon. I see Janet's hand and then I'm going to move to the attendees. There's three hands raised there. Janet, you want to follow up? Yeah, I just, you know, I have a bunch of comments that one of just just three big ones is I don't think the proposal addresses or deals with the concerns about student rentals and filling the downtown with students. And so there are ways to stick and graduate from moving in wholesale into apartment buildings. And that's the worst nightmare is building a lot of housing downtown and having it turned Amherstown into like a student downtown primarily students and what the impact that would have economically. It also I don't see how it helps that middle income residents can live here. I can see people I could see apartments at the high end. I could see apartments that are affordable and I don't see how people with middle incomes will be able to afford to live downtown. And are there ways to put that into the 40 or I know Concord has done stuff with having people, you know, what they consider affordable or people with kind of higher incomes. I also feel like there's no protection of the downtown historic resources and community character. And then there's no real encouragement of remediation and reuse of existing buildings. Is there a way to protect facades? The cottages, the quirky storefronts when you're expanding, but you keep the building, you know, a lot of what people like about Amherst and shopping in downtown is in the BL along North Pleasant Street. And those those, you know, putting up a four five story buildings isn't going to help state that cottage Victorian look at different things. And so is there a way to put something in the 40 yard that in, you know, protects those resources? The historic buildings aren't just the churches on Hall in the library. So that's that's all. Thanks. Okay, I'm going to move to the attendees and with Pam's help. If I saw Brian was the first hand that went earlier, if we can go with that. So it is getting very late. I just want to tell them we really do want to hear your comments and your questions. But if you could try to keep it, you know, is brief and concise, we would appreciate that. And that will give more time for the consultants to possibly give a better answer. Brian, could you please state your full name and where you live? Yes, Brian Thompson, six sale in place. Welcome. Janet actually did a pretty good job. I should say I'm very used to apologizing for people for being between them and lunch. I'm not as used to apologizing for people for being between them in bed. So this is the first time for me. But Janet did a good job of really summarizing my question. I would just in it really touches on workforce housing or you might say middle class housing. I think it's how Janet put it. Amherst is it's a it's a destination. People people want to live here. And so if you build housing that is, you know, just the square footage looks like something a middle class family would be able to afford or you try to do it along those lines, you know, is still going to go at a premium. So I don't I don't think that just putting in mixed use is going to all of a sudden allow kind of workforce housing to be developed. I think you have to have different policies and different strategies to do that. That's my comment. Thank you. I'm going to move to Robert. Pam, if you can enable that. And Robert, if you can give your full name and where you are from. This is really Dorothy Pam using your husband's computer because mine wasn't working. Can you hear me? We can. Welcome. Fabulous. Okay. 229 Amity Street. So I went to one of the early hearings and looked at all the kinds of houses that the they were showing us. And the only ones that I liked that would have looked nice and Amherst were the ones we can't have, which is like like East Hampton can have making over old buildings, old factory buildings. But it was all kind of general. And then the next one I attended. It was clear you were talking about downtown Amherst. And I remember that in the breakout groups, there was tremendous consternation. I could see it all over the room. We had four breakout groups. People were saying, what? You mean that here? And it was not a smooth event. So I guess everyone's told, well, it's just planning. It's not really here. So I can see how this could work out, but I'm not sure that it would work out. For example, waivers are allowed. So people would say, well, I'm going to, you know, wave the parking and we're going to have the same problem that we don't have enough parking downtown. But I'm going to focus myself really on what do you mean in subdivision three? Those are the areas that are really impinging on the residential area, which I represent. That's the west side of Kendrick Park. I see the stripes there above coals. I see them going right into North Prospect, North Prospect Street, which looks like it'll be just a little cut off strip of houses next to, I don't know what, but and then I see it go down further. So I'm really curious to know what the third subdivision would be. Thank you. And I don't know if anyone wants to answer. Okay. So Hilda, I believe you can speak. Introduce yourself. Or did she? Oh, she can't. Okay. Well done. She did have her hand up. It's down. Oh, yeah. No, it's still up. Go ahead. Hilda. Can she allow to talk? Okay, there we go. I think she's now I got it. Yep. Basically, I was going to try to shut up, but you know me. You're doing it. So state your name and your address. The green down to 98 monarchy road. Thank you. I have been the most of the hearings. I have read all of the literature and at the meeting, I want to say that Janet and Dotty have very much put their finger on all of my issues. The interview a list really shocked me because it was so biased left out most of the people who know what's going on downtown. And in any event, I just want to say that I want to refute what the develop what the consultant said about picking the downtown because I sat at that meeting around one of the tables with a former chairman of the planning board, with members of the Chamber of Commerce, with one of the big developers in that neighborhood. Nobody at that table wanted it downtown. Nobody. And that seemed to be the impression that I got from from reading also the interview letters that the downtown was sort of, you know, not really on the radar. And it looked like Beacon wanted to have it really badly up here in North Amherst, which wouldn't have thrown me either. But I think it would have been a better idea if you really wanted to develop some housing. One of the things that concerned me a lot by listening into the Chamber and the bid discussion Monday night. And again, that it shows up in the bylaw that you guys have written is getting rid of the design review board. And if you're getting rid of the whole zoning bylaw by a developer accepting the 40R in its place, then it looks like the local Historic District Commission and regulations for the Historic District also go down the drain. I'm very concerned about that. One of the other things that bothered me is the fact mixed juice building and have zero to 49% commercial. Well, that brings up a whole can of worms too. And I wanted to say the reason we got the design review board working very hard in town meeting was because of Amherst Savings Bank Exgressions right at the center of town tore down a nice little brick strip buildings to put up that ugly bank, which was stuck within perpetuity. So that's why we have a design review board, even though they're not taken very seriously. Okay, so getting back to the whole commercial aspect, since the new buildings were built downtown, I have very little reason to go downtown because it seems to me my kids counted it. There are 21 Chinese restaurants, there are bars, now we've got economic development in marijuana. The only thing I decided I go down for is my bagel fix or I go down and get my hair done when you can, but that's often that in the cinema. But I mean, basically, in the older days we had Matthew's shoes, we had Anne August, we had Walsh's. There was a reason to go downtown and go shopping. It doesn't seem to be a reason anymore. And if we're going to fill up the downtown with residential, there seems to be what are we going to get more Chinese restaurant, more pizza, more bars, more marijuana. So I think that this has to be looked at more carefully, encourage more commercial. I know that the square footage is going to be very expensive for commercial in new buildings because of the stretch code and the building codes, etc, etc. But when we got one East Pleasant Street, we lost the carrot shops. And I used to frequent creative needle. I used to frequent the music store to buy violin strings and music for my kids. And we've lost all this. And I don't see it coming back unless somebody makes a real effort to uncover something other than restaurants, bars, and marijuana for economic development. So now I've said my piece. Thank you. I'm going to go move to Rob Crowner. Pam, can we enable him introduce yourself and state your address? Rob Crowner, 44 Spalding Street. Welcome back. Thank you. So I'm pretty excited about this proposal. It's something that I've been looking forward to for a long time, rezoning downtown and not focusing just on the general business parts, but the outlying parts including the limited business parts and even some general residents parts. I think it's important that downtown hasn't really, you know, it hasn't worked like it like it could because it's too constricted. So spreading it out a little bit makes a lot of sense. I like how the proposal makes several zones. It steps the density back towards the residential areas. I think the where the lines are drawn for the sub districts seem right to me. I'm not really sure what Maria was getting at. I think they look right to me. And I think they're also important because there's an opportunity to develop across sub districts where you have a larger building that actually becomes smaller towards the back. And so it's important to have these sub districts. I also want to point to specifically the RG zones on the west side of North Pleasantry that Pam was talking about. Right now the middle part there, not the one a little farther down, the middle part. Yeah, that one. There's already an apartment complex there. So zoning doesn't mean that something is going to happen. It just provides an opportunity for something to happen. And if that apartment complex were to be redeveloped, I think it would be great if it were redeveloped under 40R. And the last, the bottom RG zone where the church house is and the parking lots are, that's an RG zone. You can't do anything there except build some residential uses. But it's part of the downtown and it should be available to use for downtown type development. That, if you were to rezone that according to the bylaw that's been proposed, you will create an opportunity to actually build a parking garage there. And the parking garage doesn't, I don't assume will not be built by the town for a long time. But a private developer could build a parking out there under this zoning that can't be done now. That's an important piece of this proposal, I believe. So I don't want to say as we go on, but I'm excited about this proposal. I think it's, I think it's, it's, has a lot of the things that I've been looking for for many years. And I hope you'll support it. Christine, you're on mute. Yes. Sorry, I was cleaning up there. Can you, I recognize Janet Keller and can you unmute her? Yes. Janet Keller, I believe you can speak your name and address and your comment please. Thank you. Janet Keller, I live on at 120 Poblitt Hill Road up in North Amherst. And I would like to ask that an attempt be made to reach out to those who attended previous meetings, particularly the December 19 meeting. I was very surprised to hear that among those present, many of whom I know are enthusiastic about downtown development, nonetheless expressed serious concerns. And I'm not hearing them tonight. And so you can see who's out there and I can't, but I'd really like to request that you provide an opportunity for them to another opportunity for them to comment before this gets too locked up. I would also like to put in a plea for greater attention to the historic resources, preservation of character, and adaptive reuse, and maybe preservation of some facades, even if the building behind them is going to be larger. And finally, I would like to ask Chris, I understand that I haven't seen Corian Adams email, but it does seem kind of a shame that she took the opportunity to comment and I'm sure that was pretty taxing for her. And I wonder if you could share with us maybe her top three concerns. Thank you. Thank you. And I think Ken Rosenthal, can we allow him to talk? Thank you. Janet almost said what I was going to say about Morianne's questions. This is a recording that's going to be made available to the public. You've been very kind to let all of us have our say. Morianne wanted to be heard and that was how she was going to reach out to you and the public and the consultants. So is there some way that if you cannot read all those questions or comments, you could make them available to the public rather than summarize them yourself. I think she needs her voice needs to be heard and her questions need to be heard just as she presented them. Thank you. Thanks. So, Chris, are you there? Yeah, I'm happy to read Morianne's questions. She has four pages of questions, but it's rather large type so I can read them, but I don't think that there will be an opportunity to answer them all. Would you give me permission to read them? Is it four pages? Yes, I said the type is pretty big. It's probably 14 or 16 points. Seven questions. All of the planning board members have this document and we could read them on June 3rd, but if people feel very interested in hearing them, I would be happy to read them now. There's, I see some hands from members. If Janet and David could turn off their hands for a minute and I'll just ask the board, raise your hand if you would like them to be read tonight or should we read them and address them at the next meeting that this is going to happen on June 3rd. So, right now the hands are down, so if anyone wants to feel strong, I just want to see if we can at least get a simple quorum. And I just want to remind everybody we're three hours and 45 minutes into the meeting. I only see one member raising their hand. So, Chris, at this point, that's a long, if it was one or two pages, maybe. So, I'm checking hands again. Yeah. All right. One more hand went up. But is there any, I mean, Chris, you've read through them. Are there are these different questions and what we've heard or? Won't these, the emails that are sent in are made a part of the public record? So, they're readable by the public. Are they not? Yeah, well, we all got them. So, it's part, well, Chris, how is this going to happen right now? So, it wasn't part of our packet, but it did get emailed to us. Yeah. You know what? It seems like we're spending a lot of time talking about them. So, why don't I just read them quickly? Okay. I need to go. This is a four-hour meeting. It's really. Yeah. I think it's actually. Chris, can we, can you post them tomorrow somewhere? And? Post them. And I'll say to, you know, Ms. Adams and everyone else that, you know, now I see this is really important. I saw it came in today. I will read it tonight. I'm sure we will all read it and we will think about it. And these, all of her issues will be considered and we will continue this dialogue and more feedback from people. Like what I kept hearing there is people really want to be assured that people are contacted about this meeting, that they know it's there, that they can watch and all this is going to be put on the web so people can read. I mean, we're such at the beginning of this right now. Like we're not voting on anything. Like we're just learning about it. I know I'm learning a lot about 40R. I didn't know. So, Chris, if there's a place you can post them, where would that go on the planning board or the? We would put them on the place where the rest of the material about this 40R district is. I think Nate said earlier that it's posted on the Housing Trust website, but there's also a link to it from the Planning Board or the Planning Department. Nate, if Nate is still here, maybe he can answer that. Yeah, I don't know. Nate, are you there? So, I think, yeah, we could, you know, we could try to get documents up and, you know, I thought there was a web page under the Planning Department and we can try to link to it from a few different ways just so people can find it easily and maybe we could put it in the news again so that it becomes just a, you know, you know, it's one of those items on the front just for a bit. So, yeah, I think there's, you know, we can look at how to organize that material in a way that it's, you know, people can find it. Can you put, like, yeah, have a comment section? Because we got other people's comments too. I don't want to put somebody's more head than others. We got a lot of comments and we can't talk about them all. No, I'm not agreeing. I think we could, you know, we already have other presentations. We could put all the other, all the presentations and all the comments received so people can just click and download a PDF of comments. Could that happen, you think, within the next week or something? Sure, yeah. That would be great. We really appreciate it and, you know, we want to keep the information and transparency out there. Okay, so I think we need to end this for tonight. And I want to first off, I want to thank the consultants for coming. This is a lot of information for a lot of people. It's, you know, we're learning new things and there's a lot to digest. And thank you for all your hard work. We really appreciate it. I'm just checking hands here. So at this point, Chris, we're thinking it will come back June 3rd and you'll receive comments from us on the 27th. And in our comments, we can also comment on comments that we've read, you know, that from other people and affirm them or stress them. Okay. All right. So if it's all right with everyone, we're going to move ahead to old business item five. Is there anything under that, Chris? I don't think so. Nope. Unless you, you had asked me to report on the CRC meeting, but I don't know if you want me to do that. Is that old business? I could just quickly say the CRC meeting on the fifth discussed zoning by law revisions and the process by which we would do zoning by law revisions and who might be involved in various bodies that might be formed or existing bodies that might do that work. And I could probably write up some notes and circulate them. I assume CRC will be doing minutes from that their meeting, right? Could you send it out to us when they're meeting? Yeah. And there was nothing firm that came out of them, the CRC, because I was there and I think Janet was there. We watched it and it was, you know, it's just a lot of discussion right now. They've got a lot of things they're thinking about, but there was nothing firm that was coming to us yet. But when they have something firm, they'll be sending us information. Thanks, Chris. So item six, new business? No new business. Okay. Item seven, form A, ANR, subdivision applications? No ANRs. Eight is upcoming ZBA applications. Pam might have some, but the only one I can think of right now is the Colonial Village Playground. I think I might have told you about that last week. They received, they are going to receive some used equipment from North Village and install it in the backyards of some of those buildings at North Village, I mean at Colonial Village. And they're going through the ZBA to have that approved. Oh, I don't know if we had heard about that, but okay. Thank you. Yeah. Number nine, upcoming SPP, SPR, SUB applications? These are some I might have also talked to you about. We are on the verge of receiving an application, said probably review application from Amherst media to build a new building on Main Street at the corner of Main and Gray. That should be coming in. I have part of the application that I don't have the drawings. We received an application from Russ Wilson to build a three season porch on a house at 11 Vista Terrace, which is the Applebrook Applebrook cluster subdivision. And all about learning wants to expand its playground. I think I might have told you about those last two the other day last week. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So we'll move on to item 10 report of the chair. I have none. Number 11 report of staff. Thank you very much for attending the meeting in this unusual way and for sticking with us for the last several hours. We appreciate it. And thank you to the consultants. So that's all I have to say. Thank you, everyone. So if there's a motion to adjourn the meeting, if someone wants to raise their hand and someone else raise it to second it. Hello. Anyone awake? Raise some hands. Do you want to go home? Oh, you are home. Doug and Michael. Great. So I saw Doug's first. Adjournment. Michael second. All right. I think we're all in favor. Thank you, everyone. You know, we're still making our way through this new Zoom world here. But I think we're doing a great job. I'll see y'all in a couple of weeks. Take care of yourselves. Stay well. Dean and Christine and Pam and Nate and everybody. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Nate. Good night. Nate, do you still have my screen? Do you have to undo it? Me or Nate? Thank you, Pam. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Good night, everybody. Oh, that's a lot of minutes. Okay. Thank you.