 It's a renaissance and this is what I again, what I really feel that COVID has opened up for us to to really think differently about who we are and what we're doing and where we spend our energy and Actually now you're seeing this more and more probably seeing this in the news like I am of people who are saying I'm not going back to that job that I had before I Have this I different idea of how I want to live and what I want to do to help provide for my family James Ehrlich is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas brought to you by 1.5 media and innovators magazine James is the founder of Regen villages holding BV a Stanford University spin-off company formed in the European Union to realize the future of living in Regenerative and resilient communities with critical life support of organic food clean water Renewable energy and circular Nutritional flows at the neighborhood scale James is also an entrepreneur in residence at the Stanford University School of Medicine flourishing project faculty at Singularity University senior fellow at NASA Ames Research Center and an Obama White House appointee for regenerative infrastructure James founded Regen villages as a Dutch EU company in impact profit company in 2016 with its patented village OS trademark operating system software to use artificial intelligence and machine learning to divide define designed and autonomously manage regenerative neighborhoods that promote healthy long-term outcomes for residents and wider communities Regen villages are planned for global replication and scale in collaboration with established industrial partners universities governments and sovereign wealth and pension funds enabling an optimistic post COVID Green transition James welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Thanks so much I think you've covered it all right there with that intro. It's perfect No way you've been doing this for a while and you you've been around the block And so you deserve that you have I'm sure much more to your bio That I could probably read but I think that's a nice insight and really I have to say I'm tickled to have you on the show because This is this is a discussion long time coming at something that's I'm passionate about and I think this is just going to be a nice podcast for for many of our listeners, but also just a fun time between the two of us I'm gonna start out kind of Hard and heavy with you and get into some some some depth First of all just kind of how we came together in our passive cross So I do a lot with Singularity University and with the SDGs on I know William McDonough It was one of my mentors. He's at the Stanford University Living archive library of William McDonough. So also tied to Stanford University Although as you've said, that's a very big campus and many many things going on. I've had several other Professors and lecturers teachers who are also doing things with staff Stanford Larry Robertson and a few others on the podcast as well. And so I just I think that our passive kind of crossed over the years and Different events and conferences, but it's good to finally Bring it bring it here on to discussion that everybody can hear and discuss You've been doing this for a while and I've got some great response after your TEDx talk and and tons of resonance through people who When is this going to be built? When's it done? We want to live there and this and so you you've you've heard Probably not everything but quite a bit around how do I get in? How do we do this? This is fabulous and and some learning curves in the process and then bam We were hit with 15 months of Or more, you know, we're still coming out of a craziness pandemic Covid black lives matters Asian racism the inauguration on and on of crazy things our world's experiencing and I want to know Have more people been knocking down your door to talk to you about these things since those things and also That way you talked about of where we need to go to the future of living the future of lifestyles a future of infrastructure and Regen villages in respect that that Is proven to be a better model for lifestyle and life and operating system And then I just want to know how have you weathered this time? Is it been good bad ugly? Oh Yeah, thanks for asking Well, of course, you know, COVID has been been Incredibly challenging and horrible for for Millions of people and arguably billions of people on earth. It's at the same time It has been a unifying force That for the first time probably ever that the entire planet all humanity at once has had to face this kind of challenge Simultaneously and so it's hasn't you know has been something that sort of touched upon Everyone's lives across the last 15 16 months from our perspective We had been predicting That there could be and will be These anomalies, right? that would make cities feel less safe and And of course the original research and idea was more around climate anomalies That would make especially coastal mega cities Be places where not only would this brittle infrastructure start to break But it would break badly for a lot of people at the same time and so then you would start to see the The beginnings of some exodus from These various mega cities coastal mega cities around the world back towards the countryside now many folks around the world thought that I and our group were kind of being chicken little and That the cities were always going to be the speaking of Of modern living and to attract people away from the countryside and to live you know in these sort of glass residential towers steel towers skyscrapers etc and that somehow To be disassociated From the natural world Was modern living and that you know, this was something that people kept telling me that that would there was no way to defy this trend Okay so some people would chuckle maybe laugh at us a little bit and me especially for For postulating this this this thesis about life outside of cities and and so in many ways COVID when it hit it became really seemingly overnight this absolutely understandable construct of Exodus and not only that but that people could essentially work Virtually and and be home and not have to be commuting and not have to be in these residential and urban Towers and and and offices. So it's been a a sea change and And and and I think a really important sea change in many ways Because we we have to embrace this idea of How far we've come away from the natural world as a species We're we're we just imagine ourselves somehow being above and beyond and away from this symbiosis, which is Rather ridiculous so that's been a these are all been actually positive things for us and We have Continued to persevere even though we haven't been able to because of COVID and other things been able to You know break the ground and move things forward the way we've wanted to do in these various places around the world to build region villages nonetheless the The Exodus from cities has really been Pointing to this need for turnkey communities and neighborhoods like this and a little bit more specific, so I mean you you In your TED talk you mentioned your son And kind of how that should shook you to think about the future and and things a little bit differently But had you applied some of that thinking the things you've been speaking about and what you're designing and in some respects to I assume you're not living in a region village right at this moment yourself, but but have you applied some of those Principles into your life and just say boy. I'm glad I I'm listening I'm working towards what we're working on and applying it in my life And it's proven to be a little bit more resilient or a better model or some of those principles of Which are really not just regenerative principles, but they're principles of sustainability and different ways of lifestyle choices living well, I mean to the best of our ability and I mean currently I live in a small place, you know just a bike path away from campus at Stanford and Which is which is a really expensive place to live an incredibly expensive place to live Yeah, the the connectivity we have with farm to table communities is it's it's here, but it still requires us to to To make those connections and and to be close to those to those family farmers we we do our best to to To not drive and to to to bike wherever possible and walk That's also been been a wonderful Opportunity because of COVID not to have to fly and and which was a big Part of an impact that I know I was making in terms of a negative impact in terms of all the flights I had to take but This is a kernel, right of everything. We're talking about which is the fact that Little bits and pieces are important, right, but there has to be a systemic whole system approach To living in regenerative resiliency and that's meaning that you're living in a passive home Typology where the home itself is capable of generating more power and preserving more power and energy than a family needs on a daily basis then you connected with With Your your clean water supply that is precious in how the circularity is happening the renewable energy sources the high yield organic food production and most importantly connected to all of that is this waste digestion So that human animal food waste all the organic waste streams are actually asset class And they contribute to to to you know this neighborhood Flourishing so that's really challenging to do Living in a suburban context here in Palo Alto, California There's only certain like I said siloed pieces that we can touch upon We do our best of course, but we know where we need to be and and want to be and that's what we're Aspiring towards so we're very much going to be the first inhabitants of redone villages communities around the world and And look forward to to the daily connectivity that We know we feel when we spend time at some of our like research farms for instance, so That's our goal. That's our ambition No, normally you'd be surprised that something like this didn't pop out of Berkeley because it's very much In line with some of the Environmental movements around Berkeley, but I'm I'm so glad that you brought it out You've touched upon several things already that we can jump down some rabbit holes and go into extreme depth. I just want to You even though this podcast will release much later and not at the same time as some of the others I just finished a podcast with Elana price who Does re-recast your city is a book that she wrote and that's all about Rebuilding remodeling communities bringing back small manufacturing and vibrant communities to your city and a lot of about resilience and regeneration and how can we Take some of these communities and make them different I'm lucky enough to have Island press which is a fabulous publishing company send me most of their authors are around community and environment and food and things like that and And and you touched upon one other thing So these coastal areas and the big issues happening from climate change around coastal areas I just did a podcast with Carolyn Kuski and Billy Fleming who wrote the the book a blueprint for Coastal adaptation uniting design economics and policy around how do we change? planning urban development HUD and come up with a new Thing as a Coastal instead of a Bureau of Land Management a coastal Land Management Type of a setup and start changing the policies and the rules and so you're you're in good company with what we're gonna talk about because that's what Everyone's talking about now. That's what we're working on You know, I've got books like regenerative leadership. It's a brand new book that came out as Fabulous about communities. You probably know about Daniel Christian wall who wrote the book Designing regenerative cultures, you know, this is not just a trend. It's not a fad It's basically the next evolution. So how do we go from the eco view? The ego view to the eco view and now we're actually going beyond to a regenerative view Which is old Sanskrit word called seva? How can we be in service to life? How can we be in service to others with this regenerative way of thinking and in your mentioned just in this opening you mentioned? symbiosis Which is Lynn Margolis. I talk about her all the time symbiotic earth and microcosmos and how how do we think? differently about the interactions of our world and And Systems Fritz Hof Capra systems thinking the systems view of life in our world. We've been taking this siloed linear approach to solve our global grand challenges and especially our infrastructure challenges and Before I ask you the next question. I want to kind of make a comment Just based on our sheer population growth today not five years, but just today We would need to build 63,000 schools every single week just to keep up with today's demands of population growth That's all around the world But I tell you that that number is pretty big in the United States and I know for a fact We're not even building a hundred new classrooms a week and a matter of fact Most of our high schools and campuses are now To meet the demand putting up these shipping container classrooms and stuff because they're not expanding fast enough And we're not meeting the demand and that was just one focus area that I'm pointing to is as classrooms We'll talk about food Infrastructure energy and how do we do that in a different way? Now my question is When I look at regen villages when I've heard you speak when I see the the whole big picture You're you're not only creating a regenerative village in an eco village. That is a Self-sustaining infrastructure and has all the basic needs there energy food water sanitation all those Needs in that system, but in many respects you're also Capturing carbon you're having a positive impact on the club climate So you're actually climate positive or climate beyond climate neutral And you're there's a basic measurement in life and in the science community over 35 years on on how we measure The planet's finite resources and that's a global footprint It's not just man and greenhouse gas emissions, but it's your your footprint the global hectare and I believe with these regen villages for each person you're increasing their global hectare Well beyond today's 1.6 replicable global hectare per person and and so Maybe you could share your thoughts on those comments that I just made But I can also give you the the hard question if you'd like first would you like that or would you want to comment first? so so the the the question is is Most of the ways that we live are are outdated the infrastructures are not up to speed and Maybe that's a thought that provoked you Deciding on regen villages And so I want to know is that why did some of those factors play into that and What are you doing to help change this this need and infrastructure to change our urban planning? Processes in this whole Ecosystem not just in the US, but all around the world obviously you're starting in Denmark No, we're I mean The way I look at it is as follows we inspired in many ways By of course the IPCC the intergovernmental panel climate change and the dire warnings coming that we've seen over over the last decade plus and In combination with that Was this Rockefeller Foundation report that I had read in a back in in 2012 Which was really eye-opening because essentially it said that up until 1950 Which is not that long ago 75% of Human population took the time was about two and a half billion people Lived in small self-sustaining subsistence based communities and They were Overproducing these artisanal ingredients across their family farms and Whatever surplus they had they would bring to the piazza square to the village Square to the community they would barter they would sell they would Find some equivalent value, but moreover this is where they would Cross-pollinate ideas and thoughts and and seed banks and and and and it was a really Rejuvenating life affirming kind of celebrations. This was where where these Really beautiful long table meals would would happen and people would bring their ingredients and their recipes and It would bring it would bring out the best in in in this kind of village-based culture in life So in any case fast forward the same Rockefeller report predicted that by 2050 That's 75% of the predicted 10 billion people living on earth Would be living in these coastal very brittle mega cities and Of course that has really, you know been something accelerating and accelerating because for for this amount of time from even before 1950 there was a concerted effort by industry to attract a young Workers to the urban areas to take factory jobs and assembly jobs and other kinds of employment and to Sell them essentially a bill of goods that That by living in the city you will have you're smarter by doing that you have access to these things you will you will have greater wealth That basically that living on the farm You're you're not a smart person. That's not the right place to be so That you know in a sense was kind of spurred this global trend away from the rural areas to The cities so that was really impactful to me because I could see that we could actually create a new moniker of wealth a new moniker of status if you will that by Reaching back out to the countryside and having place that's secure and resilient and regenerative That there's quite a bit of sex appeal in that that you know you become like a good Mating candidate in other words, you know, you're you're more capable of nesting if you will So especially when you look at at the global south many of the populations who are living in Poverty in and around these urban cities these mega cities are only a half a generation or less Away from their farmland. They really didn't have that that long a distance in time to get to where they are now So I I really felt like and I feel like we have this opportunity To create these places to to make it beautiful to make them now additionally more and more turnkey With what we understand about ecological restoration and regenerative Perspectives that we can make it easy in other words for an urbanite to come out to the countryside and Not have to worry anymore that they're not a farmer that they're not an engineer that they don't have the skills Because these places will be constructed in such a way that they're capable of of Being there and living there and adapting And becoming part of that fabric. So that's really where where we've been Focused on and and trying to take Instead of a negative marketing approach about oh the doom and the gloom and all the things that we have to to really face and the challenges Instead, you know to look at the cases all around the world Where just a few individuals even have completely restored an ecosystem By just taking the steps over some period of time to do that work So we've taken now this industrialized approach saying, okay, there's there's an opportunity for business to look at an impact-based profit and for these big funds Sovereign wealth pension funds and others to look at how they can get asset-back security on their investments But also this long-term impact return where Again, everything has to we have to rethink everything in terms of what is work versus self-worth What is economy versus? versus gross domestic happiness and And so there's lots of different ways to to re-examine This renaissance and I really want to look at it that way It's a renaissance and this is what I again what I really feel that COVID has opened up for us to to really think differently about who we are and what we're doing and where we spend our energy and Actually now you're seeing this more and more probably seeing this in the news like I am of people who are saying I'm not going back to that job that I had before I Have this I different idea of how I want to live and what I want to do to help provide for my family and Dramain to this. Okay, is the fact that the question arises. Why do we go to work? What are the reasons that we need to have gainful employment and? That has to do with Gosh 30 35% goes to your living expense your housing another X percentage going to your daily nutritional needs another X percentage going to your energy and Costs and needs and demands the water the the access to Communications whether it's cell phone or phone or media whatever it may be So in other words, if we can answer for living within a region villages neighborhood community infrastructure 85 to 90 percent of What people's daily basic needs are require then that Delta for income or Universal basic income can be dramatically reduced and And and that's something I think starts to get really interesting and exciting that Especially when you look at how we can reduce burdens on Governments reduce burdens on healthcare systems on brokering peaceful happy places Again, you know the matrix of 17 sustainable development goals each one of those 17 Right next to it is is the basis of region village. That's that's a that's a pretty Lovely reminder about what we're on to here. I Absolutely love that. I don't know if you know but in 2019 I started a new project with the United Nations and it's really not a project It's a transformation in in Songdo, Korea the city of the future. It's For the next iteration after the sustainable development goals and it's called the program is called Resilience frontiers and it could be that it's the resilience development goals What comes from 2030 to 2050 and we did a five-day workshop at the national adaptation Expo in Songdo, Korea, which is a UN adaptation event with the UNF triple C future literacy labs and those To work on that because we're realizing we meet the sustainable development goals Which will give us a nice sustainable infrastructure So to say to springboard off into resilience to and and even more than resilience It needs to be Regeneration that we truly springboard off on to how do we dial back in the safe operating spaces of our Planetary boundaries and start to let our let our world regenerate itself in many respects The interesting thing that you've talked about I want to touch on two things But I do want to go into village OS and the technology But I want to want to hold off just a second before we get into that technology Regen villages villages eco villages There's bed said in the United Kingdom. There's a finthorne in Scotland matter of fact I've got one of the first books Paul Hocken ever wrote right here about fin finthorne and Oroville and and and then there's some bigger projects emerging as well that actually started before Before Before the pandemic and that is the Red Sea project and Neome City, which is draw the line. It's a hundred and seventy five kilometer long for season for section big huge place in and Saudi Arabia and I've helped a few of these places talk about and address the livability aspects of a regenerative village in How how do we make it survive and survive and get through these times not only as an environmentalist and as activists and Sustainability expert, but but I'm used to building Infrastructures and know what it takes. How do you build a self-sustaining infrastructure that provides? Kind of an off-the-grid Tesla eco villages as you as you mentioned in your moniker there behind you One that provides the basic resources so full water management system full renewables and how do you produce energy? Full local food systems, you know that that are growing and sustaining itself And and that there are passive houses that are good to live in but also that you know They breathe and don't create toxic chemicals and our inner blind with this symbiosis of of our world and Some of these villages have been very successful and others controversial or to be seen as a As a commune or a crazy place, you know to some people like you mentioned some people's I just want people to go off the grid and and promoting different things I'm so glad that they did that because they're all learning lessons of how we can do it better and and the problems and issues that That are confronted in that respect and and that's kind of where my question is leading right now is When you go to undertake such a project, there's a lot of government sitting community level support that are needed besides the the planned urban development and housing urban development Site planning regulatory permitting that are required just one from bed Zed in the UK They, you know, they had this beautiful dream, but then they had to have so many parking stalls In really an odd talk. They wanted to be a biking walking type of community Just to meet the codes of the city and how How are you being confronted with this and moving forward with some of these These things that could be a struggle. Are you seeing that you need to address some of those things or kind of give us a little bit more inside of what you're doing with It's it's I have to tell you And then I say this often. Okay, it's not a matter of science technology or physics To be able to create really beautiful Flourishing regenerative and resilient neighborhood infrastructure villages towns retrofits It's not a matter of technology or physics or science. It is absolutely about political will and the funding So those are the two key things it's money and political will and usually if you have all the money in place The political will can get a bit easier, but that's not always the case So the truth is that when you look at the rules and the regulations on planning and And permitting and and zoning and all these different things most of those rules Have been placed on the books by district scale utility companies They are placed on the books 100 150 200 plus years ago by companies by I would call them Robert Barron's who control the monopolies of water supply of energy supply of waste Of big ag You know you look at the work of like Robert Moses and those kinds of folks on on the car is this you know is everything it's the preeminent force isn't it in design thinking where the highway goes right to your You know your garage door practically and and people just kind of as they pull into their garage the garage doors closing behind them and and they have no need to be interacting with with with others so it's the rules have Have been in place for a long time and they they've almost I think reached the kind of like biblical proportion that you cannot imagine changing these rules because they were placed on the books so many eons ago And and yes or of course there are there are questions around clean water and and health and managing you know to you know for whether it's fire safety or seismic you know proofing or other kinds of aspects all critically important things at the same time There are all of this all of these components that have been proven to work really effectively that can clean and recycle water can deal with fire suppression, building materials that address seismic Anomalies and other kinds of things and and and there's no good reason why they can't be be brought to bear and create a new rule book a new overlay right so I take a bucky fuller approach to this you know Buckminster fuller which is to say Instead of fighting, you know the old way would create a new model that makes the old model obsolete right that's his quote, and so to use a village operating system software the village OS to create a digital overlay of Both the existing rules and regulations, which by the way are typically not available to the average mortal To even understand where you find all those rules and regulations, even in the local government, right, they don't know what the regional government rule books always have to say, or the national policy the state policies are on about So they have to bring in these very expensive consultants who not only know about those rule books, but for crying out loud, they're the ones quote unquote interpreting those rule books in a way that makes those projects either green lighted or or not. So, we see software as the great leveling opportunity to use machine learning especially to look at all the complexity of different rule books look at the complexity of of planning conditions, nature. Housing, but also that that the software itself can reduce the rhetoric across all the different stakeholders that we can bring in indigenous First Nations wisdom to natural flows right of what the land really wants and needs to be flourishing and blossoming and fruiting And connect that with some percentage of new build or retrofit right so that we couldn't we can unleash the green belt or agricultural land to new kinds of build and development. And then beyond that is to see how the village OS software can operate those communities effectively and manage them within their natural boundaries and footprints. So, essentially, we can use software to create the circumstances for a better way of living. There's a lot of knowledge and you know the folks that you mentioned, you know, you know, fiend horn, and bed said Orville. We're standing on the shoulders, if you will, of so many brilliant people who have come before us, you know whether it's Rudolph Steiner, Buckminster Fuller, Bill Molison, Bill McDonough. There's, you know, we're, we are integrators, if you will, of this brilliance, you know into into much more kind of bite size and approachable function at the neighborhood scale at the village scale. So that's that's our main goal is to change the rules and to make it not just for us not just for region villages, but for landowners developers governments, most importantly, communities to be able to create these really beautiful places that are safe and healthy. And, and create strength over time that they get better, they improve over time traditional subdivision. Let's be frank, traditional subdivision that gets built. It's pretty soul crushing energy wasting, car culture, kind of place, right. The eco village infrastructure that's regenerative and resilient. It just gets more and more beautiful and improves actually over time. And it's just like, you know, when you take a walk through a country path, and you're able to, you know, pluck some kind of fruit or pick some kind of berry, and you're seeing the pioneer in the heirloom growth coming that you hadn't seen before. There's this celebration, this life affirming celebration that you're part of something. And that's really, really important. That's something I just feel that visceral connection to nature is, is really what we're focused on. And at the end of the day, it's actually pretty simple stuff. I really love that. And it needs to be simple because, especially in today's day and age people want don't want to read pages and pages of ingredients and labels they don't, they want to live convenient lives that are comfortable that they can stop and think and kind of connect with this nature and so the communities that you're creating is is a whole different lifestyle. It's what I call a low house and not the Hawaiian greeting Aloha. It's an adaptive lifestyle of health and sustainability and one that's within the safe operating spaces of our planetary boundaries and this low house thinking of lifestyles really a scenic milieu from the milieu Institute in Switzerland that talks about segments of type of how people live and marketing segment segments as well. There's this big trend. And this is what I want to touch upon before we go a little bit more into the village OS and their technology. There's this big trend now regenerative has almost become a buzzword, but it's not a trend it's something that's been around forever it's been been around for a long long time it's part of being part of this symbiotic earth and having this symbiosis. For example, for example, there's this book local, local is our future from Helena Norberg hodge and she matter of fact today is World Localization Day and it's about creating local economies local futures that people are coming back to smaller communities. Creating their own economies their own futures their own basic resources and needs that sustain themselves because right now a lot of these communities that have had outside bigger production and manufacturers and big governments and grown that the nice ways of living that that you know the grandparents and your elders remember are no longer there it's very stressful and high, especially in India and other places high death rate high racism high just tons of problems infrastructure problems as well that people are kind of going back to that. And in that process. There's also shunning technology. And this is where I really want to talk to you because you've addressed, you know, systems thinking in which also ties to complexity science and how, how do we use these systems. We're very good at thinking linear and lateral and thinking and silos and we create a rule and we think that's the fix forever that in 2018 our entire world realized that that linear siloed approach is no longer working to solve our global grand challenges, let alone our local challenges. It's kind of this systems approach to solving the problem through dynamic modeling and digital things and for the United Nations I belong to this group called the digital ecosystem for the earth. It's using satellite data collected through thousands of different providers and data sources in one spot and matter of fact. The next month from from today it just started today for the next month that you and the United Nations have come together with Connect University to do a summer school course called digital for our planet. And we use these digital tools the satellites and those things to to capture the carbon to see where the problems are to use that information to heal our planet and one of the biggest topics in this summer course the summer school course is the digital twin for the earth. How can we see by certain things that we do what the effects will have in a digital space so that we don't do the harm in the real space by making poor decisions and our planning. Where I'm going with this is I'm 100% sold that your villages OS is something that we need we need some kind of machine learning intelligence system that helps us linear lateral siloed thinkers think in complexities or assist us it doesn't take it over it doesn't make the eco village or the region village some robot or some crazy cyborg place. What it does is the complexities of how ecosystems work. And it takes that knowledge and make sure that the system continues to work in harmony with with the codes and the environment and that and and that's kind of how I see it but but I don't know enough. I only know enough to be dangerous and so that's what I'm saying, will you please tell us more and am I on the right way of thinking of what what I just said or more than this. You hit the nail pretty much squarely on the head in terms of a digital twin that's capable of modeling optimizing through simulations and these lovely positive feedback loops right on how to improve and or mitigate against risk now the inspiration of the village OS software is biomimetic it's biomimicry we look at nature itself. When I came to Stanford in in 2012 and I got involved early on what's called a solar the Catholic competition, and I was part of the Stanford team in 2013 and 2015. One of the most people who don't know what the solar Decathlon competition is it's a was a Department of Energy US Department of Energy competition of who could build the most energy positive house and home. And these wonderful masters and and and PhD students would come together, and they would design a house that was hookup ready, but they would make it that have to build in such a way that it would be portable flat pack and shipped to some designated location on earth around the world, and then would have to be the competition was that it would need. They would only get two weeks to build it in that designated location and and would be built in two weeks and and it would be there in this community of these other 19 homes right in this little village setup. And it was built on top of, of a micro grid, you know, and the one that I had witnessed the, you know, in 2013 14 was Schneider electric micro grid substrate right so load balancing at least focusing on power, right because it were energy positive so it was an energy competition and so the homes were really mostly around passive energy kind of means. But when I looked at it I went to the professors and I said look it occurs to me that a smart house inside of a dumb neighborhood doesn't make much sense. And, and I was really lucky and blessed with with these professors especially Professor Larry lifer from the Center for design research at Stanford University, who, who, you know, has this whole philosophy about design empathy, and he leaned in and said okay I really like this way you're going with this let's let's talk more and more about about this concept of the, of the, the sentient neighborhood in support of, of, of this, these energy positive homes. That led me to as a coming from a software background my background is in besides case study research of organic and biodynamic family farms my initial background really was in software and video game design. So, I was looking for and I was particularly interested in this idea of a software relationship to the natural world, where can we find a communication protocol and integration point with symbiosis. And so, in looking into this, I started to learn about the work of Dr Susan simmered from University of British Columbia, who had lovingly, you know, reframe the term, the world wide web into the wood wide web. In this lovely story about how she had discovered this, this, essentially this ethernet network under the forest floor of these mycorsal mycelial, you know fungal bundles. And, and so her research proved actually that these, these fungal inoculations into the roots, the very roots of these trees and bushes and shrubs foliage and, and even cultivars, you know, across vast distances, right. They were communicating with each other across species, not only communicating through this electrochemical signaling, but they were conveying nutrients to each other in a have need network. And beyond that, and it gives me goosebumps even to talk about it is that it's a it's a long term ledger. It's actually a ledger under the forest floor, tracking this these gifts back and forth to each other in the natural world. And that she proved that these old growth Douglas fir trees these mother trees in the Pacific Northwest were conveying all kinds of minerals, carbon, sugar, nitrogen, you know all kinds of goodies to these maple seedlings different species that you would think that seedling off in the forest floor in the shade of all these trees. That's the Darwinian logic right, but no, that the forest agreed that this maple will have something delicious to give back 1015 years from now. That made me feel like wait a second. If we could create a digital mycelial network that could understand for the first time ever, the nutritional flows at the substrate of a neighborhood food, water, energy, waste to resource management, connectivity to passive quote unquote smart homes. The external services of mobility on demand mobility as a service curriculum health care and economy, especially, right, that we can have this new form of a digital ledger that relates to our activities in community. So we could essentially uplift and create these places where people are living in these communities with with a much broader understanding of our place in the world on this planet in our ecosystems. And what a gift that is that we can that we can be together and celebrate this abundant surplus. Now, I want to just go a couple steps further with this, because part of where I am now at Stanford University as an entrepreneur and residents in the Stanford kind of flourishing project which is part of health and human performance. But I took a step in between the school mechanical engineering to the school of medicine by first joining this wonderful group under Dr James Dodie, called the Center for Compassion, altruism research and education, or C care. Now, this is in effective neuroscience this is the the Department of neurosurgery actually, but that there's been this incredible bed of research on how we can improve healthy outcomes by reducing stress, and that you can reduce that stress. By creating compassion and altruism and empathy. But in order to do that, you have to feel that you're in a position of abundance. Right, to be generous, you have to feel like you have more than, and you're not living in scarcity. Right. So, these are also the tenants of flourishing. So, we love, you know this whole journey that we've been on from the nuts and bolts of mechanical engineering and and software development to to the broader, you know, scientific medical and health perspectives of compassion altruism and empathy. And how that are the building blocks all of those are building blocks for true flourishing. Right. And when we get to that place where we can really flourish, which is, you know, everything that Bucky Fuller had been saying for a very long time on spaceship Earth that there's plenty enough resources to feed and house and clothes and and support 10 plus billion people. It's a place of generosity of spirit. And then that's a whole new area of knowledge and education and trust. And again, all of those SDGs blend perfectly, you know, with creating these beautiful peaceful places. We have to change the rules we do have to wake up and understand that in order to build these places policies have to change on all of those different topics. But in any case I just wanted to give you the inspiration behind the village OS software that it is related to these my course little bundles, which, and I'm going to just drop one extra little point there is it's part of our DNA. And I can say it's somewhere between nine and 30% of our DNA is fungal. If you look at neurons and and and our and our just even the way our our brain stems are are formed. It looks very much like a bundle. The other thing is that the my course little, you know, fungal networks, don't have a single brain infrastructure they have intelligence at the point of sensing. They have a significant being. They're the largest living organisms on earth. They can span 200 250 radial kilometers, you can imagine one of the oldest as well. Oldest largest right now here's something really trippy to add to that mix right, which is that most recently, they've discovered at a cosmological scale. The galaxies are interconnected by these thin fibers of dark matter. And when simulated, it looks a whole lot like a my course little bundle, which means to say that, even though when you look at galaxies and everything is sort of just spread out and looks like chaos theory and whatever. There's really an interconnectedness going on where there's actually a neurological network, potentially, that our cosmos is part of, and then that brings us really right back to Rudolph Steiner's work in terms of planting from a celestial body schedule. So, absolutely, connecting the dots, if you will. Yeah, and that's what we need to do. I mean it's about awareness and educated. These aren't things that we learn in school. These are not things that even we rarely learn in higher education. But our wisdom has been around for a long time. So I mean, I'm a graduate of Fritz Hof Capra's systems view of life and he talks about chaos theory and complexity science and how that's tied into systems thinking and how we do this. And I think that a couple of things that you mentioned so you talk about these microcorsial bundles but really Lynn Margolis that I showed before, she really discovered micro risa, which is even deeper than these bundles as well. And it was way back. She was Carl Sagan's first wife, and is the groundbreaking scientist that kind of went against neoliberalism neo Darwinism that it's not only this, the strong survive natural selection survival of the fittest. Now that's the we have micro organisms and fungus in our bodies were part of the bigger biome of our earth, and that they're really tied together and it's in collaboration and cooperation that it works. And really what I love about what you, you said and I want to touch on the buck minister fuller so bucky for a minute there. There's a coined term spaceship Earth was actually Kenneth Boulding Kenneth E. Boulding an economist 1964 is the first time he coined the term and talked about it and then he talked about it again and 66 in his book. And it really says the economics of the coming spaceship Earth, anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economic economist and really is so true and then buck minister fuller comes just a few years later in 1969 and you know we've heard from the businesses, the operating manual for spaceship Earth, you know our buck minister fuller and there's the buck minister fuller Institute and, and that, but I don't know if you I have a couple copies of that book but on the back of that book. You know your, your resident entrepreneur business person for Stanford. We've heard of Simon cynics wide is your business to you have a why for life and what you want to do right on the back of this book operating manual for spaceship Earth buck minister fuller gives us his why to make the world work for 100% of humanity. In the shortest possible time through spontaneous cooperation without ecological offense, or the disadvantage of anyone. That's the best why I've ever heard. I love the quotes that you, you've given a bucky as well, but it's so vital that we get this education we understand the true workings of our world so that we can create villages like this so that we can use even the technologies to help us become more part of this symbiotic earth and maybe a homo symbiosis type type of a thinking this integral part of how we work, and that it's not complex or spooky or hard or a lot of math or science, but that it's just the way the world works and we're equipped one way or the other with those same tools. I mean, we just said we have that those the microbiome and back to microbial genes and microbial cells in our body that might outweigh the human cells and the human genes in our bodies and many aspects, but that we learn how to how to make those work in harmony and collaboration with each other so you're really just your to me you're preaching to the choir but it's nice that we're kind of having this discussion with our larger audience so that they can understand that there are some other other systems out there. I believe I also know some of the answers to the questions I'm going to be asking you know we're going to get a little bit harder questions that the first one is, are you a global citizen, and how would you feel about the removal of all borders walls and limitations. That had been set by nationalism from this Kobe time and inauguration or whatever but also just moving forward separating humanity one from another but more so than one from another of that of our ecosystem or earth and the way we live and maybe put that into the guys of what you're doing with the region villages which I see as a reconnection and a lot of relationships. Yeah, so it's a really great question and and I, I have to say that our primary focus is on local regional regenerative resilience and that the reliance on globalized. You know infrastructure is not the smartest way forward that we we really have to be able to have the skills, the capabilities. The, the, the functionality if you will at doorstep access to hydrate ourselves feed ourselves empower ourselves digest our own ways, create the circumstances. It's not a libertarian, you know kind of political thinking but really break away safety, you know that these areas and communities can be islanded. Excuse me in case of some kind of anomaly or anomalies. It is. It's that kind of thought process that allows then us to be better global citizens, because we have strength in our own footprint and safety, and we can then think big thoughts, you know I often say that if you have a delicious meal of of, you know farm to table ingredients organic bio dynamic, and you're you absorb that bio available nutrition, and you're sitting at this long table with friends and family and people who aren't even speaking maybe the same language but you're just enjoying these aromas and flavors and recipes that represent these stories of where people come from. And all of a sudden, you can sit back and you can have a big smile on your face and you can, you can think about bigger things you can think about how you fit what you can do for others. And again it comes back to this idea of abundant surpluses and flourishing. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm a globalist in the sense of a globalized industrialized scale to to regional local development. So I'm a globalist using locally sourced earthen building materials and and and prefab and 3d extruded construction methods to design for extreme affordability, especially these neighborhoods that can ex nihilo from nothing be built within a period of a few weeks even come to life, and over a period of a few years, they become really self reliant in the within their own symbiosis that we can create these. We can rapidly create these lily pads of self sustaining beautiful places around the world that they can start to interconnect with each other regionally locally regionally nationally but then globally that that we can see a border free exchange of data. Right, these beautiful repositories of data that are climate related so that a neighborhood in, for instance, outside of Oslo in Norway can communicate with a neighborhood in Alberta, let's say, Canada, and learn from each other. They're not in the same country and and autonomously improve and or mitigate against risks. And I think that's really the exciting idea that you wake up in the morning in your neighborhood has had a bit of a software upgrade. Based on that knowledge. It's imperceptible to you. Except for the fact that your neighborhood just is getting better and better every day that there's more flourishing that the, there's more bio availability to your nutrition that that things are just getting easier or better. Right. That's, that's how we really apply this to the human condition, but I, I love being places. I'm not against travel. I would love to see better planet friendly fuels and methods for safe and effective travel around the world, because I love being places I'm not a fan of airports and airplanes to be honest. In any way shape or form, but I'm not sure who is but but being places and being with people and friends and making new friends and understanding challenges that people are facing in different places around the world. You've, you've highlighted some of the many of them already, you know, whether it's neon or, or, or Red Sea or others, or a bill for instance is an amazing example in a very challenging environmental place of building back using restorative in a permaculture. I, I'm definitely a global citizen. I want my, my son to be a global citizen. He's already fluent in three languages at the age of 10 I want him to, to continue that process and be, be be fluent as many languages as possible. And it's also to have an open mind and and be culturally adaptive, especially to indigenous wisdom. So, you know, we're, we're not trying to be the Disney of eco villages and stamp them out across the world in our mind and our vision. Rather to have a framework that works with the culturally sensitive design thinking and permutations and building materials, especially the circularity in those building materials locally. That brings forth these kinds of neighborhoods and communities that really work for the people there. That's our why our why is exactly what book Bucky put it on the back page of that book, which is to to make this accessible to all of humanity. And that's, that's doable. That's actually doable in our lifetime. We have to get started right now. And it has to be across the board. Yeah. I'm so surprised that not more have jumped on it and said, you know, we would like the same. It's bucking in many respects, you know, that's that's what he wanted and at his 60 1969 to release the operating manual for spaceship Earth is is actually kind of a crazy thing to do but and then to put your why a very beautiful why right on the back of the book is unusual. The other ways I see you as a global citizen, one that's not negative at all and and you know some some of those who would go into local futures and think we need to come go back to the roots and go back to the indigenous ways. There can be a healthy mix of indigenous wisdoms and those things, but simply from region villages so you've got these outreach opportunities Malmoo London Canada chili offices. You've got Denmark, Norway, Oslo offices and setups and you're doing these villages in Sweden or planning, hopefully in many different areas, which is, you know, a couple of things once it's very global. I mean, there's more to come and more areas, even more in developing countries, if possible, but then also it's almost answering the question that I want to ask you, and that is, what I want you to tell us about the outreach opportunities and how that has developed during a lockdown and pandemic. But secondly, what does a world that works for everyone look like for you. Yeah, well we are, as I mentioned a very strange multinational startup company. We're, you know, kind of beyond startup because we've already kind of transcended through our, our seed round and an angel round investment. Definitely an impact for profit company. And this was something that we decided early on to to focus on, primarily because we understand that there is an effective business model in making life better for people on on the planet, and not to be greed based or extractive, but to actually focus on on where those touchpoints are with sovereign wealth with pension funds. They're sitting on literally a Mount Everest or multiple Mount Everest of capital, especially now with with the divestments from fossil fuels and fossil fuel investments and and this this this this pool of capital that's all around the world that's parked offshore that wants to come back it wants to invest, but it's looking for at least some amount of you know, impact rate return and but also it has to meet ESG SDG and green transition commitments. And so what we've done is we basically put together a business model that is really supportive of this global supply chain of earthen building materials of these very large and bankable kinds of construction firms of the big companies with their systems and supports, but also to expose and express university research and R&D into new technologies and emerging technologies, again that are these modules that can be brought in to bear to support, you know, the way of living on on earth. And, and in other words that there is a business model for compassion ism. There's a business model for for for competing in, you know, who can be the best at the environmental stewardship. And, and I like that kind of competition that's the kind of competition that's going to be really fruitful for future generations to come that that in other words we can invert and twist and rethink the the kind of capitalism models and competition towards pro social pro environmental flourishing means and mechanisms. And, and so there's it's so it's a new kind of capitalism. It's a it's a eco centric capitalism. And that's really where I feel that that's been our, that's been been the fire in our belly because we recognize that when we can really speak the language of big big business. We can speak the language of big finance. When we can really focus on those giant be a mouth players. And those who are currently, you know, moneyed interests, who have land that's locked up under zoning current zoning conditions that that that triangulation is that is an opportunity for us to to create a new kind of model that makes the old one obsolete. And that's really where we've been focused on. So, the, the traditional eco village movement, you know, God bless them, we wouldn't be here without this previous knowledge. At the same time, it takes between eight to 30 years to build about 100 homes in this ground up grassroots kind of way. We just don't have the time left anymore on earth to to muck about, isn't it, we have to be able to create these, these neighborhoods as quickly as possible these villages, and these towns as quickly as possible, that are capable of creating abundance for those people, and those communities. So that's really what we're focused on and I do believe, I really, really do believe that what by taking that approach that we will be able to connect the dots. And this is where we're where I'm going with this that will have our village OS software, primarily will be a software, you know, organization company with access to and the ability to facilitate funding for those kinds of developments around the world. And then it really it's a self fulfilling prophecy, because then we can more and more and more bring it to design for extreme affordability. It will take an 80 to 100 million euro Norwegian Danish Swedish Dutch UK US whatever Canadian, etc. neighborhood development for four or 500 homes, and build the similar concept, albeit a bit different, of course, but similar in terms of its regenerative resiliency in the global south for 10% of that cost. So 500 homes for eight or 10 million euro. And then it's a game changer right because then you can really be working directly with government, you're creating these beautiful lily pads of self reliance. That are not cut off from government they're actually supportive of an inclusive to to those governments. So that's a really interesting model that I think that we, we know we can succeed at. Absolutely. And I love that it's kind of like, go ahead I dare you make the world better type of a model and, and it's a good type of a competition and I don't think that if others in that competition would not that innovation that Gaussian curve would actually bend the curve down so that you can do your job better and you can reach your why and your goals a lot better if they're prospering as well. And tell you the truth, and we've learned this not only from Tesla but from many, many other models. The world has a lot of problems we have a lot of global grand challenges and human suffering that we don't just need one Tesla we don't need just one region village we need 100,000 and then we will really not just be tickling the surface of the system. We'll be tackling at solving it and getting back within the safe operating spaces of our planetary boundaries and so I like that line of thinking and how can we disrupt and change the system in some respects to get it into a place where we truly need to be for that there is really something that I kind of wanted to lay on you and and see what you thought about it. And it's the term regenerative or regeneration, which is something that we deal with and I wanted to see how you thought about us the word regenerative means creating the conditions conducive for life to continuously renew itself to transcend into new forms and to flourish mid ever changing life conditions. Does that pretty much envelope as well what region villages wants to do and what your, your, your thoughts are moving forward as well as the other things that you've discussed. I mean, absolutely. You know when when going back again to to the work of Dr. Suzanne Simard and and and looking at at the role of these fungal networks in the, not only the conveyance of the nutrients and and and they do take by the way a commission. It's not like they don't get a little piece of the actions. Oh yeah, and that and that transference. But that there is a digestive renewal and process that you know anybody who's walked through the forest or or in a country path, you know can see what's going on when a branch falls when the leaves fall. And after you know this deciduous you know seasonal kind of thing that that know those nutrients are being reabsorbed into into the soil reabsorbed into the very fabric of what those trees and bushes and shrubs and foliage and and the wider ecosystem is is feeding off of and enjoying so regenerative word from our perspective is in these flows of circularity. Right, you know that when we know we we know we spent the first part of our research at Stanford, you know, in early 2013 14. I was, I was looking at the black soldier fly larvae and the aquatic red worm, for instance, which are these two incredible critters right that eat their own weight every day and food and animal waste. And the perfect nutritional input, the live nutritional input for both chickens and foul and small animals, as well as for for fish and aquaponics systems. So you're not feeding those creatures, these food pellets that are not good for them or good for us when we when we know when we when we take their protein into into our ourselves, but rather that there's this full and then there's this anaerobic digestion that happens and the anaerobic digestion also creates heat. And that he that can be you know in a certain capacity and depends on how you're doing with these modules creates a kind of district scale heating supply that can then help to heat a greenhouse above it. And of course you can bring the BT use in the small animals, chicken, the sheep, the goat that that they're these modules also connect to that greenhouse infrastructure, and their body heat is also contributing in this way. So you get this unbelievable circularity of flow of food and waste into food that feeds these other other animals into waste and, and it really is a perpetual in a lot of ways. That's, that's our feeling about about, you know, regenerative systems that the output of one can be the input of another, that there is an opportunity to look at previously siloed systems. Okay, if you look at any building or any neighborhood or any city. Okay, it's just a series of these silos, power, water, you know, waste food is always an afterthought, because that happens someplace else isn't it right. And, and housing and transit and all they're all siloed systems, but we look at it through the village OS through the lens of the village OS as actually having overlays that they, they do have effects on implications to and and can support each other. So for instance that a water pump that's moving water critically from one place to another, or helping to digest waste has a need for electricity, and that electricity ought to know where it's being sent and why it's being generated what, in other words, what are the implications that arise in those silos. And, and where do they fit with each other and how can they learn from each other. That's really exciting stuff. That is way exciting stuff and I appreciate going into more explanation of that and because it's vital for us to know how this works and and how it kind of really distinguishes itself. So I think that the experiences how you've learned on that wisdom and and what type of models you're really functioning under there. I've got a few more hard questions for you. Really, this, this one is, is kind of tied to the sustainable development goals in some respect so, especially during this time of the, the pandemic. And even before, but especially during this time with all the other unrest that we've had humanity all over the world is filling a dis ease or discomfort at our civilization frameworks are governments are local communities that those structures, those structures and those political things that we've relied upon to get us through these hard times that they're just not working for everyone anymore they're working for a select few and, and kind of eking along in some respects but that, in general, no you know what the political or the stance is. There's a dis ease whether it's good or bad disease at these civilization frameworks and so there's been a lot of debate whether we're coming towards a collapse, or if we're seeing a new civilization framework, begin to emerge, but I want to go even a step further. In, in our world's history, so if we do a little big history, we've had more than 20 civilization frameworks early antiquity and as a petimia Incas Aztecs Maya's on and on Greeks Romans, more than 20. And that have all collapsed, only two of them did not collapse because of environmental or ecological collapse, only two of them. All collapse and so we go on vacation we go to the Parthenon or we go to the Roman common policy and we're taking our selfie on at in front of the ruins on vacation or wherever we go. Go, go to all these beautiful places as a vacation, but we're actually selfing the ruins the past the civilizations that don't exist anymore. Do you feel that we're on the phase of a shift or a collapse. I guess there are new civilization framework emerging. And I guess more solace this is what ties to the sustainable development goals. You've you've you've alluded to it a couple times you've alluded to the sustainable development goals you've alluded to a circularity or circular There are some models that we've heard donut economics circular economics or circular economy. We've heard planetary boundaries we've heard the SDGs and the Paris agreement we've heard the new Green Deal or the Green New Deal However, you phrase it, and I'm not sure if I'm missing any, but there's a lot out there are the competition with each other is there one that we need to do do we need to do them all. So I want to get your take and you're feeling on both of those things and, and how that's influenced you and regenerate that has an influence in that, but you have some thoughts you could share with us on that. Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's a, it's a really great question and I visited in my life, many of these fortunate to say that I've had a chance to visit many of these, these very beautiful historic sites that are ruins, and I've had, I think, a lot of those similar thoughts about the fact that, you know, at any moment collapse is possible. And, and where does that happen how does that happen. I, I recount my, my story is growing up in New York City as a kid and how, if you wanted a particular kind of Indian food regional Indian food delivered at 330 in the morning. You can get it as long as you had money and a place to have it delivered well boom, you can have it right, but I was also at the same time pretty blown away by how anything actually ever worked. Because of the fact you, you know when you go down to the subway you can see these, these layers of you know 100 plus years of of brittle infrastructure with these very large rodents, knowing on cables and wires and things. And that was a kind of a frequent occurrence like you would get the brown out the blackout, you know those kinds of things. And Hurricane Sandy of course really impacted me in 2011 because my family back east was without power for, you know, five plus weeks. You know, and you know, you as we all know, past day like two or three, the romance of a power outage goes away you know you're the candles, you know the eating from the freezer and then the cabinets and the cupboards etc. And then all of a sudden well gosh, the fridge is empty the cupboards are empty. You know candle lights getting could be a kind of a drag. And so you go out into the world and you realize that the shelves are bare. Because somehow another that the distribution matrices have been disrupted. And in any case, nobody can take your credit card, or your bank card because it's all running on zeros and ones and electrons. And so and even if you have cash, you can't get things. So, you know, it doesn't take long for collapse to happen actually. It's really just a matter of maybe just even a couple of weeks. Right. I like to say what saved Manhattan from falling into collapse in 2011 was the fact that they got power up and running in the north part of the island of Manhattan Island. And the Northerners were kind enough to let the southern Manhattaners come up to to charge their phones and get a latte, which turns out to be the base need to prevent civilization collapse. As it turns out, so long as you can have your coffee and have and charge your phone or your device, but all kidding aside. So, I wanted to come back to this fact that we are in 2020 region villages was appointed to the UN climate secretariat resilience lab as part of the resilience frontiers. And they recognize that we are one of the top, if maybe top one to three. Bright light initiatives in the world. And that was the fact that we represent all of the 17 SDGs. And I'm going to share that document with you, by the way, after the call this draft that I look forward to your gauging with us on. Because it is actually really important to note that we can and we must look at the then overlay of systems and support. And, and creating the inoculations from a fungal perspective into those silos, where they contribute to the greater whole and to the greater good. So that is really our primary focus that we can, we can get governments of the world, the policymakers of the world to understand that there is an absolute abject urgency to change the rules right now. But if you plan to build and create regenerative resilient infrastructure. Not only do we have place for you. Not only do we have government and other kinds of grants and subsidies and goodies coming your way and new kind of tax incentives. Yes, especially for people who buy or rent or live or build new businesses, especially in these new build and retrofit regenerative communities. But that we can the government can support the fast track replication and scale of these kinds of communities across our state boundaries and across border interactions. And I think we really have a fighting chance to to live on a very habitable, beautiful planet Earth. And, and, and not live in scarcity or fear, which is by the way, one of the tenants of, unfortunately, of capitalism is to create a feeding frenzy all the time on things. So this is kind of where where we're, I would say, our hope is that we can be part of this rule change, be part of creating the framework for as a synapse to big finance. And, and that's really our direction is to work very closely with the UN to work very closely with these big, you know, governments across the EU US Canada, other places where you know green transition is especially front and center. So as we create these new economic models that are proving out, by the way, then the, you know, the floodgates are going to be open wide to a new era of thinking. So much and I have to apologize that was my faux pas that I didn't bring up that that you guys were selected through resilience frontiers as really as a pioneer for what you guys are doing. And that that's not the only accolade and achievement that you guys have received so far, and you guys are doing very well and no doubt with you at the head that that there's a wonderful team behind you and things are moving nicely and I love your model. So four last question for you, one that is my burning question the hardest question, probably for you today, and that is the burning question WTF. And it's not the swear word although maybe you and those who've been surrounded by have have touted it a couple times. It's what's the futures and it's really you know about resilience frontiers and that what's the futures for you and regen villages what's the plan where are we going. Yeah, well, thank you for those for that question and and the first thing I just want to say is that we, we are definitely looking in the process of bringing in a series a round into our Dutch holding company, which is to support our village OS software development to bring that to fruition for the benefit of a people and planet but also to help us to realize the first pilot communities in several different climate zones around the world. So we're in process right now raising 16.5 million euro in a series a round. And, and we've got some really great irons in the fire for that right now we've got some wonderful family offices who were engaged in due diligence and strategic partners and due diligence but you know there's always that lead investor isn't confident that the first person who, who, who jumps into the pool and shows that the water is great. And, and so that we're looking for that, like roughly five and a half million euro lead investor right now, because then we're really confident that we're going to be bringing in that syndicate of investors. And, and with that will be able to actually bring ourselves to a sustainable profitable business model. I only use the word sustainability, as it relates to economic spreadsheets. We really lost our ability to use the word sustainability from an environmental perspective, I think, quite a while ago. And we really have to look at regenerative resilience, you know as the new, the new terms, but we can, you know, with those proceeds will be able to get to a place where we can, can reinvest invest and reinvest based on those assets that will be on our land holdings as well as our IP in the village OS and other things that we're doing. And where are we going with this well our goal, like I've said is to to get to a sort of terminal value within five year time. That's a wonderful celebration for our investors are angel seed investors, primarily is beautiful wonderful family offices that have been a part of our journey since, since even early 2016 that they get, you know, a rate of return that enables them to reinvest in additional kinds of sustainable regenerative resilient projects and kinds of things, but also that we can move forward, and, and, and be able to transact with through, let's say green bond vehicles and other kinds of banking instruments that represent this new way forward for investment at a very large scale, so that we can say, for instance, create a green bond a region villages green bond that somewhere in the three to five billion range, and that that money sits on account in terms of patient debt cycles. It's only starts to crew, you know, a patient debt cycle, two to 3%, hopefully somewhere in that range, but it allows us to then facilitate funding for these development projects all around the world, so that then we can really align with a green venture with landowners with developers with governments, especially, and communities to see the fast track realization of these beautiful flourishing communities as quickly as we possibly can. And then when we sit back and we say gosh, a decade from now, or two decades from now, we've, we've created 20,000 30,000 50,000 or more regenerative neighborhoods and retrofits around the world. That's a really good start. I believe it's a fabulous start and I know that our listeners and those who are already taking notice of region villages so I believe you're on the right track. What I'm saying is, you know, I don't know if you know a lot of those villages, the eco villages and villages we've talked about, you know, Hinton and ROVL have been seated and funded. In other ways, the United Nations gave a lot of funding to. I don't know if it was UNESCO or what division or part did of the United Nation or internal organization did a lot of funding as kind of an experimental type of project for ROVL. And I don't know if that money's run out if it's continuing but it's been a big learning experience so I believe you're in the right way in many respects and not only receiving that from resilience frontiers and the UNF CCC. Around the adaptation and as a pioneer, the world economic form as well has innovators and future of living and many other things that I think you'll be hearing from them as well and then that international recognition of what you're doing really, really be there. I think it's already there but you know, sometimes it takes a little bit longer for some to hear the village drums over time. I think the truth is that, and this is this is absolutely my philosophy right is that by region villages attracting and bringing in the the industrial be a moth supply chain forces and big finance forces that we reduce burdens on government coffers in many ways we reduce burdens on EU regional and structural funds we reduce burdens on on the UN and these other kinds of funding sources. Because we're you know we're bringing in that public private partnership and and university research and other kinds of collaborations for for for understanding this this absolutely beautiful layers I call it was a lasagna of layers of research that can happen that we do that. And, and then, you know again the delta is really reduced for what what government has to spend to get these communities built and and realized and supported, and then the governments then can be a bit more generous in a way towards the ubi universal basic income structures. And or hopefully, to be honest, more generous in terms of taxation structures that make living building these communities living in these communities, as I mentioned building new businesses that come from these communities that support local regional economies. And that's where we want to see government coming into seed and to fruit for for for these kinds of places. So that's that's the method to my madness. Okay, it's, it's making ourselves attractive to big business and big finance in a planet friendly way. If you're on the right track I love it. You've got my money so if this is these last three questions are for my listeners so kind of a takeaway for for them if there was one message or even give you more messages that you could depart my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life what would it be your message. I think I'd go back to to Bucky God bless him. He had this, this, this concept about trim tabs that when you look at an ocean liner, you know, the QE to, or, or any of those giant, you know, kinds of cruise ships or whatever that, or container ships whatever it is that they have these, these little flaps attached to their rudders called trim tabs. And, you know, when you look at them you think gosh, how could that little tiny flap have an effect on this giant ship airplanes also the big jumbo jets also have these these these trim tabs. And the truth is, we are trim tabs each individual person on this planet has the ability to just shift one way or shift another, or think one way or think another, and that in the aggregate. We change the course of of this giant ocean liner or this giant jumbo jet in the right direction. So for for how we at a local level at a neighborhood level, feed our families, hydrate our families and power families live in dignified housing. And when you can answer those questions. When you when you're there for your family in that way. Then like I said you can sit back and start to think bigger thoughts about how you can be a trim tab for other things. Absolutely love that. What should young innovators in your field be thinking about if they're looking for ways to make real impacts. Well I get this question lot because you know I'm I am lecturing quite often I'm doing these lectures, both from Stanford and also from Singularity University, and and other universities that that invite me, you know, kind of as a visiting to, you know, to lecture to, and, and it's a big question for for young people about about career choices and about where to go with with their education to to aim themselves towards these career choices. And, and I have to say that that, you know, we're looking at a new era in in in regards to work, right, that is going to be replaced in many ways, in many places, depending upon who whose research you look at for instance the Oxford study that is 87% of, you know, of a populace 47% of of that, you know, roughly will no longer have employment because of artificial intelligence machine learning, and, and, and robotics, right, and it's not just labors and and people on assembly lines, it's actually white collar, architects, engineers, lawyers, doctors, academics that that machine learning can and will be capable of doing things faster and and more accurately than than we can. Now, we have to, with Moore's law, we have to be able to, from a societal perspective, match and meet those challenges with regenerative resiliency and neighborhood scale, you know, bread baskets and food baskets and and and hydration all those things. We have to be able to meet those challenges in such a way that that machine learning, you know, is a benefit to us, and not a detriment. Right. So it's it's what I'm trying to explain to to these to these young folks that I'm lecturing and in conversation with is that where are the gaps in machine learning and robotics and AI, where are those gaps in terms of human creativity and art and liberal arts and knowledge in that that those those nooks and crannies that a robot can't reach. In other words, that that's a sweet spot. Moreover, this is the most important thing. We have to transition from the concept of work and GDP to self worth and GDH. Instead of gross domestic product and productivity, gross domestic happiness, which is the basis of by the way the Bhutan, you know, government, right is this this concept of how can you live the most happiest life. It's not squishy science, by the way. And that's not, you know, commune hippie, you know, kumbaya kind of thinking this is this is really critical important kind of knowledge towards well being. So if we can wake up in the morning, and you jump out of bed, because you're part of a group of people building something you're designing something or working on a cultural event or were or artistic endeavor or, or you're gardening and farming or you're you're just doing something that's that's part of community goodwill, and then, and you know that you're being rewarded for that. And that's worth. That's a very different kind of economic model, and we can ledger those things within a village operating system. Neighborhood infrastructure, so that it is part of your sustenance it's part of what you're doing to create a path to ownership. So we can have social housing and accessibility to dignified living that includes people's sweat equity and their, their self worth into very real equity that then can be handed down to generations. That's really, all people want to feel like in life is that they've got self worth, and they're building equity. And I think there, I mean it ties to what you said in your previous answer about the trim but it also ties to what there are no passengers on this spaceship earth we're all crew members we can all put our hand on that rudder and adjust the trim and the direction that we want to go. And if we, we, you know, to say, you know this is esoteric or this is kind of a tree hug or hippie type of idea that, you know utopian. You know, job dissatisfaction has been the highest it's ever been for the last five years for the last 10 years and people are more and more over their their rope their rope they're not being replaced by robots but they're becoming robots because they're so unsatisfied at the work that they do. And if there was a better option that they would leave immediately. And there is a better option that is to not see yourself as a passenger just drifting that you can you can create your passenger and then you have passion and self worth and you do jump out of bed like you say and I, I really like the answers for both of those the last question I have is really. What have you experienced or learn in your professional journey so far that you would have loved to know from the start. Well, I have a lot of brick marks on my forehead, of course, I think as most entrepreneurs do in terms of of making mistakes and failing and I have, you know, a as an entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, probably much longer list of of attempts and failures, than I do in successes, but the truth is that every failure is is a success because the fact that it. It's a opportunity to learn. It's an opportunity to grow. And, and it has rough hewed me and shaped me as a person. I can't say that I would go back and and do things differently because then I wouldn't be where I am right now in this moment. I know that even in the process of, of bringing region villages forward from this research initiative that I was self funded and working on, you know, at Stanford, and then, and then taking it off as a spin off company. There's been all kinds of, of sort of fits and starts and stops and and redirects along the way, dealing with these very same pressures and rules and regulations and headwinds and and cabals of these organizations and groups that don't want change. And I agree with the way things are because that's a business model that they know that's a business model that they don't want disrupted. They want to just continue as always. And, and so we've learned a great deal. And we're continuing to learn a great deal. I, I can say that very early on. My experience roughly, I would think I'm thinking sometime around 1990. Right before I had started my first software company in Silicon Valley, actually north of Silicon Valley. And I was living actually down an area called Santa Cruz, California, which is also a wonderful university UC Santa Cruz is incredible place in terms of permaculture and biodiversity. But I was involved in a really interesting group that was that was a sort of barn. And then the barn there, they had these technologists and they had these naturalists and they had these environmentalists and they had all these different voices and people coming in, most importantly, First Nations people First Nations, American, who were there on a regular basis doing these drum circles. And I had an epiphany back then way back, you know, 1990 that I actually could feel our mother earth was sick and and needed our help. And it brought tremendous tears to my eyes that that this that these things were happening. And, and I feel like I should have done more from that epiphany at that moment. But it became part of my DNA instead. And, and it influenced me over the years of the different things that I've been doing to get to this place where we are now. So, I guess that's a, it's a little bit of regret that I feel like I could have been doing more sooner. But that's what I really hear from so many people. I wish I would have started sooner but I also hear what I hear from a lot of my guests is that really it's about the journey as well, you know, the journey in and of itself so I really, really appreciate you letting us inside of your ideas and sharing region villages with us. I wanted to show you use copy of the hippie gourmet is quick and simple cookbook for healthy eating, because I ordered a copy I found to use copy here, which in Europe it's hard in America I'm sure it's easy to find. But that's really kind of you started out doing some very interesting things and we didn't touch upon that at all but you've been, you've been in this space and thinking about food and living and those for quite some time. We're out of time. And I just want to tell you James it's been a sheer pleasure. Thanks for letting us inside of your ideas and that's all I have unless there's something you didn't get to say or talk about today I really appreciate it and thank you. I it's such an enjoyable time speaking with you mark I just really, I'm so grateful to you and to your wisdom and to this path that now I feel like we are inextricably on together with you like it or not. I love that we are now collaborators and we will be building these region villages together. And so I'm really looking forward to what happens after you hit the stop button on record and and where you and I are going to go forward together. So I'm excited. I do. Thanks so much you have a wonderful day. Thanks James. Thank you.