 Hello everyone and welcome to Inside Leather History, a fireside chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe. I am the host and the producer of the chats, which are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. I'm taking a different approach today with some of the chats and I'm going to interview someone absolutely fascinating. Miss International Gay Rodeo Association 2019 Miss Priscilla Bouvier. Miss Priscilla is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. How are you Priscilla? I'm doing good Doug. How are you? Great. I'm happy to have you on the program. You're the first person from the entire rodeo association I've had the privilege to be able to interview. Well, I'm honored and I'm glad to be here as well. Oh, I'm so happy about it. Let's start right at the very beginning. Tell us a little bit about where you're from and your family, because you have a little bit of a unique background there. I do. So legally, my name is Paul V. Hill and I come to you from Albuquerque, New Mexico, like you said. Born and raised here in Albuquerque, actually born and raised on the same property where I live now. I live in my grandparents' house, which I inherited from them and I have never left this piece of land since I was born. I am privileged and honored to have two biological daughters, Angelina and Lily, ages 27 and 25, along with my partner son, who's 11. And then we have two grandkids, a five-year-old granddaughter and a one-year-old grandson. How wonderful. Now, is there some reason you never left the homestead and moved along? I didn't want to guess it because it was available. It was here. It was convenient and it's where I grew up. There's nothing, I don't think there's anything better than being able to stay in the place where you grew up, especially if you love your community and you love the area and you have a home that's yours. Tell me a little bit about having children. You were previously married? Yes, I was married for six years. We were married for six years. I got married when I was 20. I'm sorry, I was 20 when we got married. 21, my oldest daughter was born. So I was relatively young. Why did you choose to marry so young? Things happened at the beginning of that relationship that, you know, doing things that young kids do, and my ex-wife got pregnant at the beginning of our relationship. And so I decided to go ahead and take that route and get married and start a family, which I have no regret doing. Did you know you were a gay man at that time? I did. I had known for quite a while that I was gay actually, probably since I was little, that I was different than everybody else and that I was attracted to men. But I felt that with the situation that I needed to do what was right and get married and raise a family and live that life. That's a very strong choice to make. It is. It was a very strong choice, but like I said, I don't regret making that choice. Eventually I did come out to my wife and to the rest of my family, and we decided to cross that path. We decided to go ahead and accept it for what it was and continue to raise our kids as parents and as not as a couple, but as their mom and dad, which we did and we still do. We are still great friends to this day, and we raised our kids together. How old are your children now? 27 and 25. Oh, how wonderful. Now, how did your children take you coming out as a gay man? They were relatively young when they came out. My oldest daughter was 6, my youngest daughter was 4. They accepted it for what it was, and we decided to teach them as time went on about what having a gay parent and being gay meant. Like I said, they were young, so it was hard to break things down for them in a way that they would understand. So we felt it better to just raise them with it, and that seemed to work out really well because as they had questions, we answered those questions as they grew. I'm wondering if there are probably other gay parents out there facing similar situations. What advice can you offer them? My advice is to be honest with them, answer their questions honestly and openly and always keep that line of communication open and keep your mind open when answering those questions. You don't have to be detailed when answering the questions, but let them be honest with them when it comes to their questions. I think that's the best advice I can give. What were some of the questions your children asked? They weren't very specific as far as their questions. They asked why I liked men and not women, basically why we were getting divorced, why I wasn't living at home. Those were the types of questions that we got from them. It was never sexual in context as far as their questions. I think they kind of learned that on their own because I never got those questions. I got questions about gay pride and the different events that we would go to. Those were the questions that I would get. What did you tell them? I told them that gay pride, for instance, when they asked me what gay pride was, I explained to them that there was a time when we couldn't be as open as we are now. The people that came before us created an event like this so that we could express that pride that we have in being who we are. Very good. That's very forward. We were very honest with them. Tell me about coming out as a gay man in Albuquerque. It was interesting. Albuquerque doesn't have a very large community. We do have a community. I'm not saying that we don't, but it's not very large. I found it to be very unfriendly when I first came out. Very clickish. Very hard to meet people and feel like I was included in the community here in Albuquerque. It took a long, long time for me to feel like I had a home here. Why do you think that it was a bit clickish? Any idea? I don't. I really don't have any idea why it was like that. Looking back on it, I still don't understand why it presented itself in that way. What kinds of places were you frequenting at that time? At that time, really the only places we had were bars. We had a few different bars here in Albuquerque. I think there were four or five at that time. That's what everybody did. Everybody just went to the bars on the weekends. That was really the only place that you could go unlike now. This was a big step for you being out in the gay bars. What were your thoughts and your feelings about these new surroundings? Any concerns? No. I didn't have any real concerns about being out in the bars. I was very shy at that time. I was in my late 20s, early 30s. I was still figuring myself out. For me, it was exciting but scary at the same time because I was so afraid to talk to people. This was right before the Internet explosion, I guess. There really wasn't a lot of information to research by yourself. I had to figure it out on my own. One story that I always tell people is when I was at one of the bars that I frequented, which was the ranch here in Albuquerque, I was walking around the bar and I ran into a dark doorway. I didn't know what it was. I'd been going to the bar for a couple of months but I really didn't know what was in this dark doorway. I walked in and it was the leather bar. I didn't even know it was there. It was fascinating to me because it was a whole new experience of this new world that I was entering that I didn't know anything about. There was porn playing on the TV screens. There was equipment all around that was being used. There was just a bunch of guys in there and it was very dark. It was very fascinating and exciting for me to discover that. What was fascinating and what was exciting? I think what was exciting about it was the darkness. It was almost secretive but not secretive because everybody knew it was there. What was fascinating was just a whole different experience. A whole different group of people that I guess had a different side to them. What did you feel about that or think about that? I was intrigued. I wanted to learn more. That kind of started my inquisitive side and that's when I started asking questions and started becoming unafraid to open my mouth and talk to people. What did you learn? I learned about the leather community. I learned about the various other communities that we had. Drag queens, just the various organizations that we had within our own community. At that time, you didn't know a lot of these different elements to the community? I didn't. I knew that there was gay rodeo because I had run into gay rodeo in the early 90s. Other than that, I really didn't know much about my own community that I was coming into. Take a step back and tell me more about the gay rodeo. How were you introduced to that? I think it's a funny story. It was in 1994. I was fresh out of high school. I was just in my second year, I guess my second year of college. My brother, I have four other siblings. They're half siblings from my father. I had a previous marriage before he met my mom. They're much older than I am. My brother is a DJ. He had been contracted to DJ the gay rodeo here in Albuquerque at the sheriff's posse arena where our rodeo used to be held. He didn't know really what it was. He knew it was a rodeo and it was a different kind of rodeo. He knew I loved rodeo. I was on the rodeo team at the Mexico state. He told me, hey, why don't you come with me? I'm going to DJ rodeo. I need help with the equipment. I went with him. When we got there, it looked like any other rodeo you would go to. A bunch of horse trailers, a bunch of people. We loaded the equipment. What we were doing for the first time. I thought I was going to get a job. Why don't you come and talk to me via Google? I thought I was going to kind of get a job. I just didn't know where it was. I was a part of it, and I said, I think I'm going to get it. I'm going to go down and get it. I was going to go and take the job. I thought I was going to get it. When I was doing the job to run the rodeo race, I was going to be a part of it. I had never seen a rodeo before. no idea there was any, even anything like that around. Tell me a little more about it. How did it begin to evolve for you? At that point, I still wasn't out. You know, I was actually was right a few months, just a few months shy of me meeting my ex-wife and our oldest daughter being conceived when that happened. But it just completely intrigued me because I had grown up around rodeo my entire life and grew up in agriculture and never really thought that there was this whole community out there of gay and lesbian couples and gay and lesbian cowboys. It just never dawned on me that they were there. And maybe it was because I was too blind when I was younger to really notice. I wouldn't say blind, but just maybe too naive. I never thought about it. I knew what I was and I knew that I was different from the other boys in school that I wasn't attracted to girls but I didn't look at the world around me as a whole. And so it was just very exciting for me to discover that. And then I suppressed it for a number of years after I got married and had kids. What were your thoughts when you met a drag queen for the first time? So one of the first drag queens that I met was she at that time, and I didn't know it because I didn't know what was going on, but at that time she was Miss International Gay Rodeo 1994. And it was Miss Tessie. She was representing the Southeastern Gay Rodeo Association. And of course now she's in Texas but that was one of the first drag queens I ever met. And she, to be honest, that day I thought it was a woman until she spoke. And Tessie doesn't have a very deep voice but she can tell a man's voice from a female voice and that was one of the first drag queens that I ever met. And I consider her a great friend to this day. What were your thoughts? How did you feel about that? You know, it didn't bother me. It didn't shock me. It didn't cause me any confusion or anything. I didn't really think anything of it. It was just another aspect of that day. And I think I was still so in shock about the whole gay cowboy thing that meeting a drag queen for the first time kind of took a back seat to everything else that was going on that day. And then I never thought about it. I really never thought about it after. There was a lag of time in between when you were first introduced until you actually acted upon exploring that part of the community, correct? Correct, there was probably about 10 years. Okay. You mentioned when we were preparing for this interview that when you came out, your friends had to teach you how to be gay. They did. Friends of mine had to teach me how to, I guess, gay it up and earn my gay card as they called it. I've always been a cowboy. That's just how I was raised. That's the life that I grew up in. And so entering into a gay community that had this whole stereotype at that time and still does was different for me. I really didn't care about my hair. I didn't care about, really care about the way I dressed. I dressed the same every single day. And so my friends were like, well, no, you can't do that. You got to get, your hair's got to be cut different. The way I said it is I learned how to match my belt to my shoes because I had one belt and it was a Western style belt with a buckle on it. And I wore it with everything. I never had any other belts. And nor did I ever really have any other colored shoes. And I didn't know that you matched your belt to your shoes. I didn't know that if you didn't do that that it was considered, you know, I guess a faux pas. And so they had to teach me how to be gay. Well, what else did they teach you? I'm almost afraid to ask. I guess some of the things that they taught me was one of the first, I know TV was a big deal because everybody was watching Sex in the City. Everybody, you know, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy had just come out at that time. It was, I think it was season premieres were going on. Learning how to, you know, shop at different stores other than a Western store because that's the only place I ever went to. Learning how to, you know, I guess go out to a bar. How to show people you're interested when you're out, you know, learning about adult video stores, you know, the etiquette, you know, that type of stuff. I can't help but ask you, what is the etiquette for that? I don't know because I wasn't one to, they kind of scared me. What was the biggest change they had you make in order to accommodate being gay? I guess I'd have to say one of the biggest changes was really paying attention to my parents and paying attention to, you know, that moisturizing my skin and taking care of it and getting a haircut every, you know, once a month versus me who would get, you know, a haircut maybe once every four months because I always wore a hat. So it then wasn't a priority to me. And so I think just taking, general taking care, better care of myself and realizing that I need to take care of myself to be a good person. But I think it's more of a vanity thing. I think it was more of a, you have to take care of yourself to attract somebody. How did other people in your world react to that? For example, your family, when they started these changes? They weren't too shocked when I came out. So I didn't actually have the opportunity to actually come out to my family. My ex-wife did it for me. After I came out to her, she told everybody and so she's the one that made, I think that job easier on me by outing me. But a conversation I had had with my dad was that, you know, he goes, we always knew, we always knew you were. And so I think for them, it was expected when changes, when I started making those changes, they were expecting it. And once I did come out to my wife and we did separate and started the divorce process, it was just, they expected it for me. Tell me about your thoughts and your feelings about coming out as gay at that time. What were your expectations, disappointments, anything like that? Well, I guess when I decided to come out to my wife, number one, I was expected to get hit. I was expecting her to punch me. I was expecting there to be some physical motion out of it and there wasn't. And so that kind of threw me for a loop a little bit because I was kind of ready for it and it didn't happen. When I came out to her, I had this huge pressure release. I felt like all this pressure was just gone because I had been holding it in for so long. And once I said the words, I'm gay, it went away. And it was neat because then I felt like I didn't have to hide anything anymore. And conversations that I had with family members, and we're a traditional Hispanic family where emotions aren't voiced. They're kind of kept in and you don't, unless it's something really, really big and it doesn't get talked about. If it's not bothering you, you just leave it alone and move on with your life. And I think that's what happened is people, it works like I said, they were expecting it. So when it happened, they were just able to go on with their life and I was able to go on with mine. So I didn't have the traditional, very dramatic coming out story that a lot of people have. And so when I talk to people who have those, I don't know how to respond to them. I don't know how to react because I didn't have that. I had a lot of support and I didn't have any drama behind it. It was, it's the only way I can explain it. That's wonderful. I'm very fortunate, I'm very grateful for that. How did things evolve for you then? They kind of, it just took a natural, it took it's natural, what I consider it's natural course. I had friends that were gay and they introduced me to the community and do what it was to be gay. And I kind of figured it out for myself from there on out. I knew the gay rodeo existed. So that was one of the first things that I wanted to do when I came out was figure out how that worked and how I could become involved in that because that was what I had always done. So how did you, I, there was, I saw an advertisement I believe it was at one of the bars that had the New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association on it, I'm advertising their upcoming membership meeting that was gonna be held that month at one of the local restaurants here in town. And so I decided, well, I'm gonna go and see what it's about and join. And I didn't realize that the New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association was part of a bigger organization. First impressions? I was excited because these were people who were just like me. They lived on ranches and farms or grew up on ranches and farms. They worked with animals. They enjoyed the sport of rodeo and didn't think of it as a rough and tumble sport. It was just something that happened. It was something they loved and they loved to talk about it and I could talk about it to them. Whereas my gay friends had no idea what I was talking about when I would talk to them about rodeo because that wasn't a part of their life whereas an everyday part of mine. So I was excited. How big an organization was it? At that time there was, I guess, there was about 80 or 90 members. The active members were close about 40 active members at that time. So it was a relatively big organization. They still, you know, they put on their annual rodeo and went through the normal monthly struggles that every association goes to when preparing for a rodeo. They were talking about upcoming rodeos that were coming up and so it was exciting. And again, it was exciting for me. Were there any surprises? No, well, there were. I guess there were surprises when it came to the rodeo events. I wasn't, you know, in regular rodeo or straight rodeo, I'm so used to the men's events and then the women's one event that they have. Whereas in gay rodeo, the women and men compete in all events equally and in some of the events they compete as teams. So it could be two men, two women, a man and a woman. Two men and a woman, two women and a man. It just kind of depends on the event but they compete against each other equally in all events. How much does the gay rodeo mirror the heterosexual rodeo? Very closely. So they have all the same events. There's some modifications to some events but we both do the gay and regular rodeo have bull riding. They have saddle-bronk riding, team roping, barrel racing, you know, just a few of the events that you would find in a regular rodeo. And then we have events that have been modified. So for instance, in regular rodeo, you have an event called tie-down roping or some people call it calf roping. And that's where you rope a calf on horseback and then the rider gets down and ties three legs, you know, ties three legs together and time stops as fast as times wins. Within gay rodeo, we have calf roping on foot where it's a little bit more modified. You still have a calf, you know, which is a baby cow and they rope it and then fastest time wins. Or we have one event you'll find in regular rodeo is steer wrestling. And so steer wrestling is, it's a steer which is a castrated male cow or a certain breed of cow. It's called a coronet, it's the coronet breed. And steer wrestling, the steer is released from the chute. Rider on horseback rides up on it, slides off the horses back onto the steers and wrestles it to the ground. Fastest time wins. In gay rodeo, we have chute dogging. You start in the chute with the steer, bring it out and wrestle it to the ground, fastest time wins, you know. So there's some modifications, but all the events are basically the same. Why is it modified for the gay rodeo? I think it's, I don't see there being very many steer wrestlers, you know, some of the events are expensive. Not only to compete in them, but to have the animals trained to do it, you know, tie down roping horses in regular rodeo. Those are highly specialized, highly trained horses. And, you know, and those are cowboys that are riding those horses, they're rodeoing full time. This is their job. This is how they make their living. Gay rodeo is not set up like that to be able to do that. And so to have, to keep those horses, to keep those highly trained horses, you know, on their game, that takes a lot of money and time. And so I think it's, and to include everybody, I think we modify our events so that anybody can compete. You know, if you've never thrown a rope or, you know, gotten near a calf, you could still compete in calf roping on foot, you know. We could take you and show, we could give you a couple of lessons. And in 30 minutes, you could be roping a calf on foot in the rodeo arena at a gay rodeo. You know, they're very user friendly. It's a good way to say it. Now, how uniform is it across, for example, the United States or Canada? How uniform are the events? The rodeos. The gay rodeos? Yes. The rodeos are all the same in any, let me slow down just a little bit. Any rodeo that is sanctioned by the International Gay Rodeo Association will run the same anywhere you go. Whether it's in Albuquerque, Palm Springs, Florida, Washington, D.C. or Calgary, Alberta, they will all run the same because we follow the same set of rules. Tell me about the people who travel throughout all over, competing in these rodeos, participating in the rodeos. How does that work? So anybody can compete in one of our rodeos, whether you're gay straight, bi, transgender, number one, as long as you're a member of a recognized association within the International Gay Rodeo Association. You pay your yearly membership due and you can compete at any rodeo. Whether, and it's completely up to you, whether what rodeo you want to attend. For instance, this year we have rodeos starting now in February in Phoenix. I will be going to Phoenix to compete this year. And I will set my own schedule on which rodeos I want to attend this year, just kind of depending on what my goal is. If I want to qualify for world gay rodeo finals, then I will make as many rodeos as I can. If I just want to go and have fun, I may go to two rodeos. It just, it all depends. But you have people from all over the US, all different backgrounds that come and compete at our gay rodeos. And it's, I think that's what makes it so, so much fun. When you say compete and what are you going to compete? So within, we have 13 approved events within gay rodeo. So we have our rough stock events which includes bull riding, ranch saddle bronc riding, shoot dogging and steer riding. So those are what we call our rough stock events. Then we have our timed events which are barrel racing, pole bending and flag race. Then we have our roping events which are team roping, calf roping on foot and breakaway roping. And then our camp events which are fun events that have been gait up a little bit. And that is steer decorating, goat dressing and wild drag. And I'll get into those in a minute. But those are, we have 13 approved events. I compete in calf roping on foot, shoot dogging. I'll do the camp events. So the goat dressing, steer decorating and wild drag, but I'll also compete in the speed events which are the barrel racing, pole bending and flag race. So that's separate from your personality as Miss International Gay Rodeo Association, clearly. Yeah, it is. I won't be doing it in drag. I'm too pretty for all that is the way I explain it. But I do compete and that's, you know, but it is a different side to me personally because it's the side that I've always known. You know, the drag part in Priscilla and the Miss International Gay Rodeo that's a whole different side. So what I'm understanding is that there are basically two sections of this for you. So you're basically having to do double the work? No, not anymore. So in 2000, so each, let me explain how Priscilla became Miss International Gay Rodeo Association. Each one of the rodeo associations has a royalty team. And the royalty team consists usually of a four person team, which is a Miss, which is your drag queen, a Mr, which is your man, an MR, a Ms, which is your female or your lesbian. And then your Mr, which is your drag king, which is usually female, dressed in male drag. They are the fundraisers. They are the face of the organizations. They are the ones that are attending events, putting on events, raising money for their association along with raising money for their charities. Because one thing that I would like to mention is that everything we do is for charity. We all have a charity partner that we partner with for all our rodeos. And so the majority of the money that we take in for our rodeos gets given out to charity. So they select their royalty teams, the association select their royalty teams who reign for a whole year and raise money for their association for charity. And at the end of the year at the World Gay Finals Rodeo is the annual International Gay Rodeo Association royalty competition, which can be a 12 member team, depending on the number of contestants that compete from each hosting association. And they are again, they are the face of the organization. They are the fundraisers for the International Gay Rodeo Association. And it's a huge honor to be on that team, to make that team. And for a whole year you get to work on behalf of the International Gay Rodeo Association and Gay Rodeo representing both and traveling and working within your community to raise awareness and outreach and raise money for charity. So in 2017 I competed for Miss New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association and I was honored enough to be selected to represent New Mexico for 2018. And I did and I traveled the rodeo circuit and then in 20, at the end of 2018, World Gay Finals Rodeo was in Mesquite, Texas. And at the annual International Gay Rodeo Association royalty competition, I was honored to have been selected as Miss International Gay Rodeo 2019. And so I spent 2019 traveling the rodeo circuit, doing community outreach, raising money for charity and representing Gay Rodeo in the Western lifestyle within our community and outside of our community. So that's how that evolved. But I've always been a competitor. I've always been a rodeo competitor. But your title as Miss International, that's obviously carried over due to COVID. No, I was actually lucky enough to step down from my title in October of 2019. And the new team stepped up, took over our role at January 1st, 2020. And so they were in rain for three months before COVID hit. Got it. And then things shut down and they have been in rain through now. They're still in rain through 2022. They will be stepping down in February in Phoenix. They finally get to give up their titles. But they've had two years. That's true of so many title holders right now. It is. Yeah. What charities did you benefit? So the charities that I supported when we, in 2018 here locally and in 2019, my local charities that I supported were of course, my own host association, the New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association. We are a 501C4 organization. So I was able to support them. One of the other charities that we supported was the New Mexico Transgender Resource Center. And they're one of our statewide resource center for our trans community. They do so much for not just our trans community, but our entire LGBTQI plus community here in New Mexico. Empower, which is a youth organization that help and work with the LGBTQI plus youth within our community. The United Court of the Sandias or there are Imperial court system here in New Mexico at that time. We raised money for them. They raised money for us. The Big Brothers Big Sisters was another organization that we supported in 2018 and in 19 and the Agora Rape Crisis Center. Oh, that's quite a list. Yes, we had quite a few charities that we supported both in 2018 and 2019 throughout our doing our work for our community. Have you any idea how much you generated? How much money? So in 2019, we were able to give close to $10,000 total to five different organizations. And then in 2019, we raised another 7,000 to give to, that we split between our charities. And then this year in 2021, we were able to give close to $1,000 just from the funds raised at our own rodeo to Big Brothers Big Sisters of the central New Mexico. That's absolutely beautiful. Yes, and that's the whole reason we do what we do is to raise money for charity. I wouldn't get a drag for if it wasn't, if it didn't have a good reason behind it. When we prepared for this interview, you told me that you don't receive any funds toward your drag attire, your makeup, anything. How in the world do you manage it? Well, you know, I have a job. And so, and good thing I have a partner that has good budgeting skills. Good. But yeah, we don't receive any kind of financial gain from doing this. This is all volunteer. We don't keep any of our tips. We don't request any travel money. We don't request any kind of compensation whatsoever. Everything we do is out of our own pocket. And I'm perfectly okay with that. And that's travel as well, isn't it? Yes, that includes travel as well. Wow. So during your reign, where were you able to travel? So during my reign, I was lucky enough to be able to go to Arizona, to Colorado, Texas, California, Arkansas, and I was able to do a fundraiser down in Mexico. In Mexico? Wow. Yes. Now, when we prepared for this as well, you told me you were interviewed on Univision. Yes, I was. I was interviewed on Univision, or Univision, TV, number of times, I think a total of four times between 2018 and 2019. It started in Texas in 2018, when we were at the Texas Tradition Rodeo, which is Texas's annual rodeo that year. It was in April, April of 2018. And I had been approached and asked if I would do an interview. And I said, sure. And I said, with who? And they told me, and I said, okay. So I didn't realize that it was in Spanish until they told me that I was gonna have to do this interview in Spanish. And I was missing the Mexico Gay Rodeo Association at the time. And so I first wanted to make sure that they were okay with me doing an interview in Texas regarding, you know, for Texas Gay Rodeo Association because they had their mess at the time. And I just wanted to make sure I wasn't gonna step on anybody's toes, but they said, yeah, that was fine because their miss didn't speak Spanish. And so I did the interview and it came out great. It was, I was able to get a clip of the interview and the crew that was there were really, really nice and we became friends. And then when I went back in October to Mesquite for the World Gay Finals Rodeo, I met up with them again and did another interview with them. And then when I went back in 2019, I did, they were the same crew was there. We reconnected, I did another interview with them there. The Texas Rodeo was actually, I did a number of interviews at the Texas Gay Rodeo. That was the rodeo I ended up being on Dallas Housewives. While we were at the Texas Rodeo, the Dallas Housewives crew was there because Lori Larkin was the grand marshal and she's one of the housewives from Dallas. And so she was our grand marshal and so I had the opportunity to interview with them. But I went to Colorado, when I went to Denver's rodeo, there was a crew there from University on Colorado and they approached me and they said, we were told by one of our Texas crews to reach out to you and find you. And so I did an interview in Denver for them and I did all these interviews in Spanish. What sorts of things did they want to know? They just wanted to, you know, wanted to know of course the difference between gay rodeo and regular rodeos, the types of people that attend, the types of people that compete, the different kind of events that we had, they really were really interested in our camp events, you know, like our go dressing and wild drag events. That's what they wanted. And they also were very interested to know which charities we were benefiting at each one of those rodeos, which I felt was, to me, was the most important part. Now, what set you in the forefront to win the title I want to say, I want to hope that it was my passion that I emitted to the judges. So we, the International Gay Rodeo Association pageant is a judged event. It is a pageant that was a three day pageant and we're judged by a panel of five to seven judges based on our knowledge of gay rodeo and our personality and of course talent, horsemanship and Western wear. So, you know, we just can't be a pretty face. We actually have to know what we're talking about and what is going on within gay rodeo and within our community. So I'm hoping that it was my passion that showed people that I was the best person to do the job. You were asked a very interesting question. I was asked a lot of interesting questions. One that came up in our pre-interview for this was how do you explain it to a blind person? Yes, I was asked how I explained, how you explain goat dressing to a blind person. And that was one of the questions that I kind of thought about all year while I was preparing for the IGRA pageant is how I could explain an event to somebody who couldn't see it. Because I think that's one of the hardest things to do is explain something to somebody when they can't see it. And not only does it apply to rodeo, but I think it applies to the LGBTI plus community as a whole. When you're trying to explain our community to those that have never experienced it or are trying to argue an opposing point, I think if you can explain an event like goat dressing to a blind person, you can explain anything to anybody. And so yeah, I had to explain goat dressing to a blind person. That's fascinating. I don't know, at that time it would roll off my tongue. It would just roll off my tongue. Now two years, almost three years later, I think I'd have to practice it a little bit to make it sound good. Well, you told me that part of your duties as the face of the organization was to be able to explain each part of the organization and the contest to people who are unfamiliar. Tell us a little more about that. So during the course of a rodeo weekend, being that I wasn't competing, I was walking through the stands, I was introducing myself to people, I was meeting people and explaining, answering questions that they may have, whether it was, are the animals hurt? Do they get prodded by electric shocks to buck So I had to be able to explain our animal wear, our stance on animal welfare to people to let them know that no, our animals are not being hurt. Our animals are actually our number one priority. They're taking care of better than we take care of ourselves in some cases. I also had to know how to explain our gender diversity. People coming to a gay rodeo for the first time may not understand where, may never have encountered a person who's transsexual and who may be going through transition and may not understand why they have an Adam's apple, but they're competing in a female category. So I had to be very well versed in those topics to make sure that I explained every aspect of our organization and our event to somebody who just didn't understand. And my goal during that time was to make a, turn a spectator into a fan by the time they left. And so if that meant sitting with somebody for two hours during a rodeo, then I would sit for two hours during a rodeo with them and explain every aspect of what they were seeing to them. If I had to. And I met some very interesting people by doing that. How so? I got to meet people from all over, you know, in Texas I got to meet people from, there was people there that were visiting from Ireland and they happened to just, they went to a restaurant that was near the rodeo grounds and somebody told them that there was a rodeo going on and so they went, they didn't even know it was a gay rodeo until they got there. But they ended up staying the entire day. And I think I sat with them for a good hour maybe and explained rodeo events and I would come back and check on them throughout the day and they ended up coming back both days and Denver, I met a group of people from Korea, South Korea. So there was a little bit of a language barrier, but they had an interpreter with them and so it was neat getting to talk to them and get to, you know, they were excited either because it was something completely different for them. I was excited that they were there and they were having a great time. And so I got to answer their questions, you know, being able to meet people like Lori Larkin from Dallas Housewives and being able to speak about gay rodeo, that was a huge, that was exciting for me. Meeting people like photographer Luke Guilford who published National Anthem, a coffee table book that was released last year, you know, being able to talk with him at all the rodeos that I met him at and sit for photographs for him and then being able to be in vogue while being part of, while being part of that release of that book was a huge deal for me. Not because it exposed me and put me in vogue, that was never my intention. My intention was to be able to speak about the International Gay Rodeos Association and the Western lifestyle within the gay community. Now, I can't help but ask people from South Korea, for example, how did they react upon meeting you? They were, you could see the shock in their face, you know, just because here you have this big burly body and then makeup and, you know, big hair, big jewelry. So it was, you know, they acted like typical tourists. I guess the cameras came out and, you know, thumbs started clicking and flashes started going off and they wanted to take pictures with me and asking me, you know, they were just asking me questions to their interpreter and the interpreter was like, you know, telling everybody, okay, y'all need to calm down. But then when we sat down and when they started watching the rodeo and I started explaining it to them, you know, then they were engaged and they were excited and so it was really, it was really neat. But yeah, to them it was just a complete, you know, and I think South Korea and the Asian community, they're kind of used to drag queens, but I don't think they're used to it on a bigger level. You know, I don't think they're used to seeing somebody, you know, with foot long earrings hanging from their head or, you know, like hair that's four feet tall. And also, you know, as Ms. IGRA, I had the opportunity to wear this lovely thing. And so when you walk around with this on your head, you know, this usually attracts a lot of attention. Now tell me, what were your feelings when you were crowned? I was, you know, I don't remember it. I had to watch the video that evening because it was just very, very, it was a blur to me. I had never, as a drag queen, you know, most drag queens are pageant queens or, you know, they're performance queens. And so if you're a pageant queen, you're always after some kind of crown. And I had never wanted to compete in pageants. I had wanted, only ever wanted two titles to ever hold. And the first title I ever wanted was Miss New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association. And it was because of this crown. This is the original crown for Miss New Mexico Gay Rodeo Association. And I always thought it was the coolest crown that I'd ever seen. And my thought behind this is, you know, you get to wear this and you get to represent the sport of rodeo. How awesome is that? You know, you get to sparkle and talk about rodeo at the same time. And then when I saw the International Gay Rodeo Association crown, I thought that's the other crown I want. And, you know, it's unique to IGRA. IGRA is the only organization that uses this crown. Okay. That has this crown. And so we call it the satellite dish. And so I was fortunate enough to get both crowns that I ever wanted and be able to wear them. And so it's, to me, it's a huge honor to be able to wear either one of these crowns. Are there times when you do? Not anymore. I'll wear them once a year and that's for our annual pageant. We always give the honor of wearing the crown to the current title holder because it's their time and it's their time to be the main attraction. But when we get to crown a new Miss IGRA or a new team, you know, we make sure we're out there in force and we're all wearing our satellite dishes. But when we were preparing for this interview, you brought up a couple of things I found particularly entertaining. Okay. The concept of trailer hopping. Oh, yeah. A couple of things. Tell us about that. What were those? Let me take a drink so I can. They're had the question that had been posed and it's usually a question that comes up from the community. I guess at large is, you know, you always go to, everybody's always looking for, I guess, the inappropriate site to events. You know, people go to the gym to get ready for pride, you know, so that they look good and they can attract somebody. And so, I guess, rodeo has it's naughty side. I guess for lack of better words. But in straight rodeo, you know, you have what the girls that they, that follow the cowboys and look to hook up with a cowboy, they're called buckle bunnies. Okay. And they're also called trailer hoppers. Okay. Which means they travel from trailer to trailer, depending on the night, hooking up with cowboys. And their hopes and the reason they call them a buckle bunny is in hopes that one of the cowboys will give them a buckle that they can wear. Oh. That's where the term buckle bunny comes from. So usually when, you know, you find somebody wearing somebody else's buckle, they're considered a buckle bunny because it's not their own. How does that work in the gay scene? Same way, same concept. You know, things happen at rodeo grounds or at the bar afterwards. And either you go back to the rodeo grounds to somebody or, you know, you meet somebody or, you know, now in the day and the day and age of apps, of hookup apps, you know, you can have somebody come to the rodeo grounds, meet you at the trailer. And I think I told you, you know, one of the funnest parts, I think for me on Saturday mornings, after a night at registration is watching everybody do the walk of shame as they come out of people's trailers. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. But you also mentioned activity under the bleachers. Oh yeah. There's bleachers, you know, there's bleachers, bucking shoots, roping shoots, holding pens, you know, stalls. Things, naughty things can happen anywhere. I'm sure I don't know what you mean. Oh no, I'm sure, I'm sure you don't. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I don't either. I've never experienced it. I've just been told these stories. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Now, I understand that the gay rodeo is a derivative or it germinated within the imperial court system. Yes, that is correct. So the first gay rodeo was held in 1976 and it was put on by Phil Ragsdale, who was the current emperor of the Reno court out of Nevada. And that started as a fundraiser for muscular dystrophy. And so that's how gay rodeo started and it evolved from there. And then in 1993 and 1994 is when Wayne Giacchino, who was the founder of the International Gay Rodeo Association and a few other people sat down and actually developed the International Gay Rodeo Association. But yes, it was started by the imperial court system. Now, what advice can you offer someone looking to not only get involved in the gay rodeo, but also somebody that may wanna follow in your footsteps in the, to become International Miss Gay Rodeo, Miss International Gay Rodeo, rather. I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is to be open to suggestion, be open to criticism. Have tough skin, you gotta have tough skin because you're not gonna please everybody and you can't please everybody. And that's one thing that I learned pretty quickly is that as long as you're doing what you wanna do and the reasons you wanna do it are good and they're focused on what your end goal is, then you do it, you don't care what anybody else says. You do, you boo, but you gotta have tough skin and you have to be open to criticism because not everybody does everything the same way and we have to move with the times. We have to change with technology. But yeah, I think one of the biggest things, one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is have tough skin and study. Study everything you can. What's the biggest misconception about you? Oh, one of the biggest misconceptions is that I am a huge and total bitch and I'm not. Why? Okay. I have what they call resting bitch face or RBF. And I have had people tell me that I am so unapproachable because I look so mean and I'm really not. It's just the way my face rests. It may look like I'm, you know, like I am angry, but I'm not, I'm really not. And I try to make sure that I'm not doing that and I tend to sit with my arms crossed a lot, which, you know, closes off somebody and so it will make them unapproachable. So I try not to do that and I try to always have a smile on my face so people know that I am approachable. But yeah, people think that I'm a huge bitch and I'm not, I'm really not. Can you show us your full outfit a little bit there? I mean, can you get that on camera for us? I don't think I can, but I can show you that I do have one of my royalty team shirts on. Oh, okay. So this is the International Gay Rodeo Association logo. This is our royalty logo. And this is just one of our team shirts that we had in 2019. One of the things that I did, I did have some stuff that I wanted to show you because I know we had talked about it. Within Rodeo, you know, people always ask, well, why do you do it? Why are you competing? And I think some of the biggest reasons we compete is, you know, in every event, our top six places, you know, we place first through six depending on highest score, fastest time wins and each Rodeo will give out ribbons. Oh. So first through sixth place, we'll get a ribbon. So this was one of our ribbons this year from New Mexico. And this was for steer riding. But this was one of the first place. And of course, I just brought a second place just to show, you know, they're red, red, and then they go through the other colors. And then those contestants that compete in multiple events within one Rodeo qualify for what is called the all around title. And so the person with the highest score in multiple events becomes the all around cowboy or cowgirl. And they usually get, you know, it could rain to anywhere from a saddle to, you know, a buckle or, you know, some bigger prizes for those events because they're putting in a lot of effort into competing in five or six events in one day, you know, and it takes a lot of work. And so we usually give them bigger and prettier ribbons. Oh, wow, look at that. For them, this was a runner up cowgirl, all around cowgirl ribbon from New Mexico for this year. Okay. One of the ultimate prizes though is if you win overall for the weekend in any event, one of the big things, and this is always a cowboy, you know, all cowboys like to get these, and these of course are buckles. Okay, yes. And so, you know, this was my buckle from when I was Miss International Gay Rodeo. Okay, okay. I don't know how well you can see it. Actually, yeah, we can see it relatively well. Yeah. So all the events, all the winners in each event for within a rodeo will receive a buckle. Okay. You know, for being the best in that event for the weekend. And so all the buckles are different. Each association comes up with their own design for their buckles. This was made by buckle maker Bob Berg. I believe he's out of Texas. And these were from 2019. And his buckles are really unique because they have a clip on the back. Oh, okay. That, Okay, yes. It holds on to your belt. Yeah. And so I know I complained about these when I first got my buckle because trying to undo your buckle when you have to pee and drag with nails on. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Kind of difficult to learn how to figure this out, but I did it. Oh my gosh. And so, you know, these are just the prizes that we, and of course there's money. You know, we do get some money back, prize money for those that place. I believe it's first through sixth place. Do get some money back based on the payout, our payout rules for each rodeo. Fantastic. So we're just not going out there to compete for, you know, for nothing. We're actually out there to compete for prizes. Yeah, yeah. And you know, one thing I also wanted to mention is that our rodeo officials, so our rodeos actually, we have officials. We have judges that judge these events. We have arena directors that control the movement within the arena. We have shoot coordinators which control the movement behind the arena with the animals and getting the animals loaded and getting them in the shoots and in the right spot at the right time for the right contestant. Wow. We have arena crews that are out there setting up the arena for each event, whether it's placing barrels for barrel racing poles, laying down flower timing lines for shoot dogging. We have these crews that do this. We have our timers and our scorekeepers that, you know, are capturing all the times and all the scores to make sure everything's documented properly. We have our rodeo directors and assistant rodeo directors that work all year to put on these rodeos. And all our certified officials actually go through a certification process every year where they have to be recertified for these jobs. How fascinating. Yeah, it's just not, somebody's just not out there yelling, you know, as an arena director, no, they've actually gone through the process to become an arena director. And there's a succession steps here. You know, you have to have done this to gone to this level to come to the next level to become an arena director. So, you know, it's not just, but it's, we're all volunteers. Fascinating. Yeah. I never knew that. Yeah, so all our rodeo officials are all certified rodeo officials. They do know what they're talking about when they're out there judging a rodeo event. They know what they're doing. They're not just some person that likes the sport who says, well, I'm going to go out there and judge Saddlebark writing. No, they know what they're doing when they judge these events. That's amazing. It's, you know, like I said, it's all volunteers. We're all volunteers when we put on a rodeo. None of us receive any kind of compensation for it. We do it out of the love for the sport and for the Western lifestyle and for the LGBTQI plus community. And, you know, that's why we do it. But everything, every rodeo is put on by a group of volunteers. Priscilla Bouvier, you have taught me so much. Oh, God, then my day is done. I honestly have to sincerely thank you for teaching me personally so much about this. I just didn't know. And I would like to thank you very much for being part of Inside Leather History, a fireside chat. Well, thank you for asking and it was an honor to be here and I had such a great time. I'm, the honor is mine, truly. Thank you. Thank you, Doug.